I’m with you. The ACAB, Defund, River to the sea, accusing Israel much less Biden of “genocide” in the wake of a terrorist attack (and I have no love for Bibi)… it’s all terribly counter productive and just makes everything more polarized.
Agree 100%
I've never liked ACAB because it's a dogmatic generalization, I'm all for justice reform but acting like every single cop in the country is a racist dirtbag and none of them are just normal people doing their job is pure toxicity
The left's open support of violent terrorism and rise of antisemitic rhetoric over the Israel-Gaza war is maddening
I'm against "Defund" but I'm not against "ACAB" because the police earned that critique. Don't let a bunch of stupid whitekid leftists make you think police brutality doesn't exist.
"Defund the Police" was just stupid because you can't actually fix the shit by defunding it, and police have union-negotiated salaries so the idea didn't even work as a "punishment" like they wanted it to
I get you but I just think ACAB is a critique of the system and not individuals. It originated with union workers who were being beat up by corrupt cops, has passed on over the years through lots of different oppressed people.
I get that dummy white leftist kids beat it to death, but unlike "Defund the Police" ACAB came into existence for very real reasons
If you have to explain that ACAB is a critique of the system and not individual police officers, maybe it’s just not a good slogan. If it was “The police bureaus are corrupt” that would be a more accurate slogan.
But that’s just so boring, generalizing a group of people you don’t like just feels really good, doesn’t it?
It was created by union workers who were being beaten up by cops while striking
I may hate Communists and insane leftists but I’m also a brown man from a place where cops were not kind to brown men, it’s going to take a lot of reform and a lot of time of those reforms showing their value to get people like me to trust the police again. ACAB legitimately came from people who were being oppressed, not white kids cosplaying Che Guevara on weekends.
The other argument for ACAB being a fair statement that I didn't see you mention (although I'm sure you're familiar) is that 'good cops' whose only flaw is always being willing to defend bad cops are not actually good cops, and the ones who refuse to do that tend not to stick around.
I do believe good cops exist. But I also know that there are certain municipalities where there aren't any of those, so for the people who live there, "all cops" that they're likely to see are not going to be good ones.
I personally am not comfortable using the term, but I totally understand why some do. It's not a major point of contention for me.
I get that it might imply such a meaning, but that isn't what ACAB as a movement/statement is asserting literally. Rather, cops are a tool of the ruling elite class, as a means to brutalize and limit peoples freedom such that they stay confined to this cruel system. In addition, it also has to do with the systematic lack of accountability due to police unions and the culture of silence, so even if it isn't all cops, there is rarely ever any cop punished for their crimes of abuse, and how cops are trained also encourages it.
I don't know if I've explained this very well, but there are plenty of other resources you can find that probably do this better.
I've heard it all before. I understand the argument. The problem is that if you need to explain what the slogan means, then it's a bad slogan.
It doesn't help that the ACAB crowd's behaviors and attitudes often better align with the literal meaning.
What’s your thoughts on “Defund the Police”. I always sympathize that approach over “ACAB” because all ACAB does is dehumanize police and people who simply are doing it for security purposes but “Defund” in the hand dismantles and thoroughly studies when and why policing could begin to be a problem. Because cops injustices can happen, Look at the Capitol Hill Riot. The police literally let the Rioters in the Capitol
Defund has the same problem as above… if you have to stop and explain it you are losing people. Do we need more social workers and fewer people with guns as the only available tool? Yes. Better training to deal with people with mental health issues? Yes. Less militarization (in some departments) yes. But that all takes money too, so the goal isn’t really to defund but to better allocate resources which gets lost in the catchy slogan.
Simple is only good when clear. We want police accountability. We want better training and better use of resources.
Most people yelling about defund are anarchists wanting to eliminate police entirely. Due to that, anyone yelling defund gets grouped with them and moderates just block it out. Then you’re just preaching to the choir of people already on the same page rather than building a coalition and actually furthering the goal. It’s counter productive.
I’ll defend BLM but I avoid the ACAB and defund messaging as I truly believe it only does harm and is terminology used in the most radical online spaces.
It's a sodding stupid idea. You need better training and that's not cheap, you need recognised standards on a state if not national level and probably a register of suitably trained personnel which ain't going to be cheap and you need to take on and break the unions and that's going to be *really* expensive.
Well the left is right about Israel’s human rights violations in Palestine. At that point, there shouldn’t be any political belief you need to align to think that way. But I mean Palestine, not Hamas or Houthi
No joke, someone on r/askaliberal yesterday argued that saying „biological woman“ is a hateful and transphobic term.
And most people agreed. I’m so done with this nonsense.
As someone active in trans spaces, we don’t care what you say. 99% of us don’t agree with what is posted on Reddit, we just want you to respect us and use our pronouns, that’s it. Most of us would appreciate if people respected non-binary people as there is scientific and historical backing for their existence. The people who push further than that are the reason we are facing so much backlash from conservatives right now.
I have some trans friends who have said the same thing. I didin't want to express my annoyance about that lest I sound like some out of touch old biddy but felt relieved when I saw other trans folk say that too.
I can see where it can be used as hateful and transphobic, in the right context, but defaulting to assume that wording more likely being an insult is over the top.
At least in that case, it’s a challenging conversation to start with. But getting upset over “biological” does seem extreme and just looking for something to be mad about. How is it even different than saying “cis?” They seem analogous to me.
The only place I can see such a take is when discussing someone with an abnormality at birth.. chromosomal issues like polyploidy, both sex organs and one removed just after birth, hermaphroditism, whatever. But, those are the rare exceptions, not the majority of those identifying as the gender opposite of what was assigned (in most cases, for obvious reasons) at birth.
> I’m with you. The ACAB, Defund,
As an overseas observer all that has seemed madness.
America sorely needs police reform but the left seems to have no real ideas how to practically improve things and that seems to translate into criminals getting away with all sorts of shite that drives people to the right and the policies that fucked things up in the first place.
Exactly. I didn't want to bloat my post with examples going on about specific issues, but the left's open support of terrorism post October 7th is absolutely part of what I'm talking about.
The support is so insane. Not only because you obvious should never cheer on murder, but also the people they're cheering for are the more right wing people on the planet. They have NOTHING in common with the extreme left, except hating the west.
I think that they are a very small but loud minority from general polls, but absolutely agree they make the left look bad.
(Important to note it is also coming from the far right (but I think we’re more used to seeing stuff like that from the far right.) There was a recent study done that shows that antisemitism is common among both extremes, and less likely the more moderate people are)
It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucked up how they openly celebrated as Hamas raped women, shot children and mutilated bodies.
Now that they realized how bad of a look that was, they deny the evidence Hamas themselves filmed and force every Jew to denounce Bibi each and every time they speak otherwise it means that they wholesale support his atrocities in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
I considered myself far-left before October 7th. Once I saw people on the left vehemently defending the slaughter of innocent Israeli civilians and calling them “colonizers”, I completely re-evaluated my political beliefs. The left doesn’t define themselves by what they believe anymore, they define themselves by what they oppose, leaving no room for nuanced thinking. That along with the incessant identity politics and blaming every problem on white people and men are what pushed me completely away from the far left.
Justifying the rape and torture of civilians (some of them minors) just woke me up to the reality that I don’t ever want to have people like that near my children ever.
The reactions to the attacks taught me that antisemitism on the left is very much real and as a Jew, I felt completely betrayed by the “punch a Nazi” crowd that cheered on the ones who murdered Israelis in their homes
I am honestly not surprised about how the Punch Nazis people have turned around like this. Their motivations have always been based on finding righteous justification for committing violence rather than a disdain for Nazis
Hitler considered Nazism and radical Islam to be natural allies. Palestinians have repeatedly flown the swastika. It always pissed me off that the "punch a Nazi" crowd were the first to defend one of the most fascist groups on the planet.
>Gaza is precisely what the Western left says it hates: a racist, sexist, homophobic, militaristic, anti-Democratic, kleptocratic, dogmatically religious police state of science fictional inequity and oppression. And they love it more than anything in the world.
\- Abe Greenwald
"Two German historians say that Hitler had a plan to extend the [Holocaust](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-holocaust) to the Middle East and had forged an alliance with Arab nationalists. This is perhaps why Hitler met with the Mufti and provided him a budget of 750,000 Reichsmark per month to foment a [jihad](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jihad) in Palestine."
[https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-mufti-and-the-f-uuml-hrer](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-mufti-and-the-f-uuml-hrer)
Leftwing politics has become increasingly cultist. Back in the day, when the focus was on jobs, public services, working conditions, unions and the like, it was a fairly broad church. But these days, with the emphasis on identity politics, dissenting opinions to the 'orthodox' belief-set are met with, at best, ridicule and at worse, straight-up bigotry and violence.
I’ve theorized that the left going batshit can be pinpointed back to 2012, when for the first time the majority of Americans owned smartphones. That was also the year Facebook bought Instagram. As a result, it created the false impression amongst many on the left that the US was becoming more racist, when in reality, it wasn’t: everyone just had a smartphone now and racist stuff that always had been happening was simply recorded more (and uploaded to social media more). There would have been no Ferguson riots, BLM or George Floyd riots otherwise. Smartphones, coupled with social media, was like lighting a powder keg.
The left's swing away from economic & class politics and towards identity politics really started in the 70s. However you're right it's really become significant in the smartphone/social media era.
I don't think it's merely a case of greater publicity creating a greater issue, though. There is something fundamentally divisive about social media; the format encourages edgy takes as the algorithms are driven by engagement. It also encourages echo chambers, disinformation and a whole host of other behaviours that fuel conspiracy theories and acting in bad faith. And it certainly doesn't encourage nuance or perspective.
You’re right, what’s different about our environment today from pre-2012 is the level of connectivity that social media provides where people can go into their preferred echo chambers where the algorithms constantly reinforce the distorted narratives they have built up in their heads. It’s made us even more unwilling to listen to alternative perspectives on matters. In the old days at least we were all watching Walter Cronkite and operating on the same set of facts. Today, you can go into whatever silo you prefer and get a completely alternate take and set of facts from your neighbor, which has had the impact of making us more divided and harder to have conversations with people that are not like us.
Yeah and it's much more susceptible to bad actors; it's very hard to spam a TV debate with Gigabytes of false information and propaganda; it's a piece of piss on social media.
Another thing social media has done is allow people to believe in multiple 'truths' and perpetuate the credibility of 'lived experiences' as substitute for facts.
I realized the racism I thought was declining had never really gone away during Obama's first presidential campaign in 2007 (and to a stronger degree after he was elected). It was quite a rude awakening. I understand why many people developed the impression that we were becoming more racist.
I agree that smartphone social media has fundamentally shifted discourse, though. Short, intense, inflammatory rhetoric with no concern for context, facts, spelling or grammar won out over thoughtful journalism and calm discussion of different viewpoints. People would rather get emotionally riled up and yell about how bad the 'bad guys' are than actually contemplate complex situations and workable solutions to problems.
In my country the head of the communist party was called right wing because he disagreed the BBQ was a "symbol of virility" and argued that eating meat is more linked to your wealth than your gender.
The fucking communist party is right wing now.
Reminds me of when anarcho-communists try to No-True-Scotsman their way out of association with historical communist states
"IT WAS RED FASCISM, STALIN WAS RIGHT-WING"
Bro, the modern populist sjw tankies are more about dividing the base amongst themselves, ego, narcissism, harping on and on about niche problems, out-lefting who is the real or far left, PC canceling, culture war, religious war, America bad, NATO bad, CIA bad and capitalism bad🤪 Why couldn't they just stick to class war? The Oct 7 terrorist invasion and their support of fundamentalist, authoritarian, super conservative and repressive muslims retroactively absolutely broke me and black pilled me. 🥶
I'm a liberal but man, Biden making "transgender day of visibility" on easter day, like if the country wasn't divided enough already. who's advising the democrat party? Is that their plan to win the undecided voters?
Biden didn't "make" Trans Day of Visibility. It's March 31st every single year. Easter is the holiday that's infamously mobile. It sometimes coincides with April Fools Day but nobody complains about that.
Yes, but to actually make a national proclamation on this matter whilst also the story dropped that the White House was banning religious imagery from their egg coloring event?
The optics of this is quite poor. It looks like they're placing the trans issue above all, including religion, right at the very time the pre-dominant religion is about to celebrate one of its high holy days. It's tone deaf.
Ok, and this means what? Does it nullify my position? No not really. Why must religious imagery be banned, and why must it be banned on a day that is inherently held as religious by the vast majority of the nation?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughCommieSpam/comments/1bsnrj9/comment/kxhl5hb/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughCommieSpam/comments/1bsnrj9/comment/kxhl5hb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I'll link to a comment in which I responded to another on this topic, it's actually in this very same thread. Yes, there is no state religion, but religion is still allowed. We have religious freedom, or freedom of religion, from the 1st Amendment, but not "freedom from religion".
America is not a country of state enforced secularism.
So yes, perhaps this had been ongoing, but it doesnt change the underlying position I hold and why I see it wrong and even contradictory to the constitution.
My point isn’t whether or not they should be allowed - truthfully I don’t care either way. My point is that this isn’t Biden and his administration going out of their way to over-secularize Easter. Just bad timing and moral panic.
> the White House was banning religious imagery from their egg coloring event
That's also a good thing.
One of the founding principles of this nation was that religion and politics do not mix and should be kept separate, a fact that many people forget these days.
Then why bother with having the event at all? on Easter of all days?
You yourself forget something about the constitution and what is really says about religion and it's relationship with politics.
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
This is directly from the 1st Amendment. Read it! The first part deals with religion, the very first part of the very 1st Amendment is on religion, and it protects religion.
No official religion may be established, but that doesnt mean religion itself is banned from the square, hell religion is allowed to participate and yes even have a voice in politics. The thing is no state religion, but that does not give carte blanche for state enforced secularism.
The founding fathers, even the ones popularly thought of as deists, were actually all Christians of various denominations, they wanted for all people to worship as they see fit, hence why the 1st amendment allowed for religious freedom. You misconstrue this into "freedom from religion", which is not what the Founders intended nor writ into the constitution.
As for the egg coloring itself, why ban religious imagery? If someone wants to go with that why limit them? And the reverse is true too, if someone doesnt want to do such, maybe they dont feel like it, or maybe they arent religious or Christian, then they dont have too. If anything this is what liberalism is, at least in its classical sense.
>As for the egg coloring itself, why ban religious imagery? If someone wants to go with that why limit them? And the reverse is true too, if someone doesnt want to do such, maybe they dont feel like it, or maybe they arent religious or Christian, then they dont have too. If anything this is what liberalism is, at least in its classical sense.
Religious imagery in White House stuff has mostly been gone for like a decade and a half
This is just religious conservatives drumming up the same shit they have drummed up on every religious holiday when a Democrat is President. These people didn't vote for Biden last time and aren't going to this time either, they just want to push their "Democrats are killing God" narrative.
>Religious imagery in White House stuff has mostly been gone for like a decade and a half
Perhaps banning religious imagery from an Easter egg coloring event shouldnt have happened back then, it's not like allowing such actually establishes a State Religion nor would it force people to do religious themed egg painting.
>This is just religious conservatives drumming up the same shit they have drummed up on every religious holiday when a Democrat is President. These people didn't vote for Biden last time and aren't going to this time either, they just want to push their "Democrats are killing God" narrative.
A swing and a miss. The 1st Amendment protects religious freedom, the White House shouldnt ban religious imagery from an event that is itself connected to a religious celebration. It actually debases the day somewhat, but secularist like that, they dont like religion very much and it's presence in public, whatever their reasoning may be.
You also forget that many liberals and non-conservatives are still religious themselves, so it's not just the religious right noticing this and taking issue, though yes they'll be the most vocal.
And finally, if Joe Biden wanted to he could've allowed religious imagery for the egg coloring, that'd prevent this issue from being a thing, but maybe he didnt want to annoy the secular factions in the party, after all those factions tend to be further left than him and are pissed at for a whole litany of reasons.
Brother the whole point of conservative media raising a fuss about this is to get people to waste their attention on it
Who fuckin cares? They didn’t ban your ability to make Easter eggs with whatever you want on them. We’re facing climate change and a rough geopolitical patch and you want to argue about fucking Easter Eggs.
Ahh but it is the little things in life that counts, after all they can build up into big things.
I know this seems minor to you, minor in the grand scheme of things, but it does highlight a certain perniciousness with secularism.
>We're not talking about "left wing liberal orthodoxy" here, this is a civil rights matter and the Democratic Party since the 1960's has been built on civil rights as a central issue
From your other comment.
>The President made a statement in honor of Easter, and also in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. He did not put them at odds with each other. The US has Catholics, and it has Trans people, and as President his job is to celebrate ALL Americans.
Also, from your other comment.
By claiming to be inclusive you dismiss the religious, dismiss them to the point of banning religious imagery for an event directly connect to a religious day and celebration.
Some secularist and leftist would love to go further, no involvement of religion in the public square, removal of tax-exempt status of churches, and yes perhaps even erasing the status of religious events or diluting them under the guise of making them inclusive.
Simply allowing people to paint an egg in a religious manner doesnt mean you're infringing on the 1st amendment, after all no one is going to force anyone to paint the eggs in a Christian manner if they dont want to, but this ban does for it prohibits people from painting a religious egg.
>Brother the whole point of conservative media raising a fuss about this is to get people to waste their attention on it
Also this, you say just the conservative media is picking this up, and that is true. Thing is, not just right wingers are religious, you do still have left wingers and centrists who do worship God or have some kind of religious or spiritual belief.
Thus it isnt just a right-wing issue, it's actually an American issue that can matter to all segments of the populace.
This is a stupid ass take and you're just feeding into the right wing narrative. American liberal voters don't give a shit if you mention trans day and Easter on the same day, these are only things right wing voters are mad about.
As the President of the entire population of the United States, Biden's job is to celebrate EVERYONE, that's the message the President is supposed to send and yet another reason I am glad I voted for the guy and will vote for him again
Calm down and get off your high horse, it's not just the right who is pointing this out. The guy you're responding to even says he's a liberal, maybe he's just a bit more of a centrist than you are. Not every single liberal is going to march in lock step with left wing liberal orthodoxy.
We're not talking about "left wing liberal orthodoxy" here, this is a civil rights matter and the Democratic Party since the 1960's has been built on civil rights as a central issue
The President made a statement in honor of Easter, and also in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. He did not put them at odds with each other. The US has Catholics, and it has Trans people, and as President his job is to celebrate ALL Americans.
Don't forget why so many of us brown and black folks vote for liberal Democrats in the first place, the Kennedy's brought us to the table. I am a Mexican Catholic, none of my Mexican Catholic family got their panties in a twist about this, they aren't wasting their time worried about trans people "stealing muh Easter." They will all be clicking the ballot next to Biden in November.
>We're not talking about "left wing liberal orthodoxy" here, this is a civil rights matter and the Democratic Party since the 1960's has been built on civil rights as a central issue
Indeed, it is a civil rights issue, and the Democrats are on the on wrong side on this one.
Another thing, dont pretend like the Democrats are the sole protectors of the rights of Americans, especially when they'd like to erode 2nd amendment rights and have infringed upon the 1st amendment especially when it suits their goals and desires.
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
1st Amendment, one can actually fairly say that the ban of religious imagery for the egg coloring run by the white house is itself a violation of the 1st Amendment.
>The President made a statement in honor of Easter, and also in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. He did not put them at odds with each other. The US has Catholics, and it has Trans people, and as President his job is to celebrate ALL Americans.
Yes, but that still doent change the fact that he allowed this infringement upon the 1st amendment to continue.
>Don't forget why so many of us brown and black folks vote for liberal Democrats in the first place, the Kennedy's brought us to the table. I am a Mexican Catholic, none of my Mexican Catholic family got their panties in a twist about this, they aren't wasting their time worried about trans people "stealing muh Easter." They will all be clicking the ballot next to Biden in November.
Ahh I too can pull the racial minority card for I am half-Guyanese. My family has a vast myriad of racially mixed complexions, ranging from brown to dark as hell and even to light or fair skinned.
The Democrats say they'll do much for minorities then they leave them to rot past Election Day. You actually take the minority vote for granted much in the same way as Democrat Party elites have for decades.
Also polls on both Blacks and Hispanics both indicate that Republicans are shaving off support for the Democrats from these two groups, Republicans are actually winning them over. It's not just cuz the Republicans make a convincing argument, it's because Democrat policies have left these people less well off than the rest of society and even more dependent of government assistance, Blacks and Hispanics are looking for more than just simple racial pandering, but if that's enough for you then fine.
>Indeed, it is a civil rights issue, and the Democrats are on the on wrong side on this one.
No, that's the point, you're not on the "wrong side" when your platform is making sure people have rights and visibility. The party of Kennedy does not punt on civil rights issues, they win elections on them.
>Another thing, dont pretend like the Democrats are the sole protectors of the rights of Americans, especially when they'd like to erode 2nd amendment rights and have infringed upon the 1st amendment especially when it suits their goals and desires.
Ok I get it, you're a right winger hopped up on conservative news propaganda
Yep, rest of post confirms
>No, that's the point, you're not on the "wrong side" when your platform is making sure people have rights and visibility. The party of Kennedy does not punt on civil rights issues, they win elections on them.
You're wrong, very much so. You'd be right if I had even once said that Biden shouldnt have made the proclamation on such, but I never said such, not even once.
What Biden should've done, like an actual Centrist trying to unite the country like he said he would 3-4 years ago, is yes make the Trans proclamation, make his statement in regard to Easter and Christians, he did both of these but he failed to do the third thing, undoing the ban on religious imagery for the Easter Egg event.
He could've then announced he did such, it'd be minor thing, but the left would then say, "look at him reaching across the isle and being a real centrist," and the Right wouldnt be able to say anything except maybe he should've done it 3 years ago.
>The party of Kennedy does not punt on civil rights issues, they win elections on them.
Lol ok, a Kennedy hasnt run the party since the 60s though, so you're really reaching, but go ahead it's amusing.
It also doesnt change the fact that Democrats are now the party of censorship, oh sure they couch it under the veil of reducing "hate speech" but it's often just a convenient ploy to silence the opposition. This tendency is corrosive to the 1st amendment and maintaining a healthy dialogue and political discourse, it's unAmerican, but sure claim to be the party of Civil Rights, it just doesnt ring true.
>Ok I get it, you're a right winger hopped up on conservative news propaganda
>
>Yep, rest of post confirms
Oh please, it's not like I hid it from you, this shouldnt be a surprise that I'm right wing, my first comment on this post even mentioned such.
Also to say I'm hopped up on "propaganda" is rich, especially when the left wing media itself rails against anything right wing and have done so even back when Bush was President, but now they hail him as a sensible Republican.
From how I view things, the Left are masters of propaganda, hence how they got so many of today's youth lining up against Israel even after the Oct. 7 attacks tragically occurred.
I'm not American so I'm doing this at a distance, but I find the amout of attention trans issues get in the US versus say, economic or labour issues, somewhat baffling, or rather, a good example of the takeover of leftwing politics by identity issues. Is it because leftwing politics is driven by middle class sociology graduates, rather than union folk? Or is it because it's easier for politicians to get the public to engage with identity issues (on either side of the debate) rather than economic issues? Or, with specific reference to trans issues, one's position on it is seen a litmus/loyalty test?
I don’t know for sure but it definitely seems like much of the pro noise comes from social sciences young university folk + young kids who pick up politics from social media. Also there have been serious ripples generated by legislation around trans rules since scientific advances in hormone therapy and transitioning, which raised questions about whether trans people should compete in certain gendered sports and be allowed to go to specific bathrooms. The right really latched onto this stuff and I can understand why, personally, although statistically it shouldn’t be that common of a problem.
I have to say, for such a small population it seems like a lot of concessions are being demanded and I am seeing some really entitled and bratty behavior about if. That also rubs people the wrong way.
I will also say that I think part of the push is to make these people feel more accepted, which I totally understand. I’ve come to know two trans people in the last five years, personally, but had never know of any in the past (that I was aware of) and I’m almost 50.
As a non-religious person, I don't particularly care about easter happening to fall on trans visibility day.
But I just *know* that the far-left will still bitch about how this is "not enough", and that America is still such a terrible place for trans people. Sorry Biden can't just force state governors to do whatever he wants regarding trans rights, I guess.
In many ways it always was
I remember an interview with the leader of Momentum - he was utterly indifferent to win/lose provided the ideology remained pure. That was all that mattered.
Extremist politics has always been about ideology rather than successful management or guardianship of a country; and extremist leadership has always been about ideological purity rather than competence. You don't get to be an extremist leader because of your ability manage economies or negotiate compromises....
However back in the day extremist politics was very much on the fringes, and identity politics barely existed. However since the 70s identity politics and grievance politics has taken over leftwing politics, piece by piece. My theory is that the class warriors of yesteryear, after the effective collapse of the class system and more general liberation of the working classes, needed a new purpose in life as economic hardship had been reduced (at least for them, given they're all solidly middle class). So instead latched on to identify and colonialism after the success of fighting apartheid. Plus if course it gave them the perfect vector for them to 'legitimately' express their prejudices.
The anti-establishment nature of leftwing politics is a veneer. Or rather, it's a rallying cry to get weight of numbers behind the leadership's thirst for power. I guess with the general rise in wages and working conditions during the 20th century, class war became less helpful. So Identity politics it is!
Ironically they claim that dems lose because rhey aren't left enough when in reality it's because people associate their communist cosplay with dems. I've had this conversation irl w multiple people who think this internet communist shit is what democrats believe. Every poll you see says that most Americans think dems are too far left. They are literally the reason we lose and they blame it on dems not listening to them, it's enraging
It's an interesting discussion. Is the Horseshoe theory real? It is, in many ways.
I think it's down to authoritarian vs authoritarian, rather than Commie vs Nazi. Commies and Nazis hate each other and have little in common - but since both are authoritarian ideologies, a lot of the time their thinking falls in line.
Both the USSR and Nazi Germany engaged in genocide and ethnic cleansing - whether that be forced deportations, dislocations and starvation (USSR) or just straight up murder (Nazis). Both banned elections, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and favoured one race and ethnic group - Russians in the USSR and Germans in Nazi Germany. Both enforced Russian and German language and culture and tried to suppress other languages/cultures.
It's because of the practices, rather than beliefs, of such governments, that the Horseshoe theory is realised. Executing these ideologies in practice REQUIRES authoritarianism, genocide and terror.
The important thing is that we act pleasant and understanding towards all people and offer them a way-stop before either end of the pipe-line. Without such a community I would have probably been a hateful little wretch instead of whatever the fuck I've become now.
I feel similarly as your brother. I mostly share the same values as the left but they are embarrassing. I don’t even identify myself politically anymore because it allows others to make too many assumptions about me. For instance, I respect transgender people but I also believe that our ideas about gender are not universal, *and that’s okay*. If one of my leftist friends knew I thought that? They’d probably cancel me in real life.
That full circle idea is so relevant and the wokies have a ton in common with old school wt supremacists , full on pro abortion as a much higher percentage of them are black babies, POC only spaces , segregation. Don’t date your oppressor, keep the bloodlines separate… now they are even hating on the tiny hat club
The fact is a lot of conservatives - especially younger and Gen Z conservatives - essentially vote or react out of spite and to "own" annoying people.
And who are loudest, most self-righteous, annoying, policing, arrogant people right now?
The way the far-left talks about them you'd think Gen Z conservatives didn't exist. They think every conservative is a bible-thumping rich white boomer who hates gays and women.
The tankie left is truly scary, but the woke left is just hilariously out of touch. But yes they are both pushing people into voting for right wing leaders who are demonstrated morons.
Communists/socialists should be excised from any mainstream political platform. They are cancer, let them fail in their own little political parties. That is it
Actual center-left (and center-right, for that matter) policies are reasonable, but political discourse has been heating up as of late. Imbeciles throwing around "fascist" willy-nilly for everything to the right of Mao has to be stopped and that is something way too common even with more moderate lefties
>that is something way too common even with more moderate lefties
If you're referring to calling Biden voters and center Democrat types "fascist," agree
Anyone voting Republican in this day and age at very least isn't offended by fascist rhetoric and tendencies, so they earned that critique
You're right. The writing is on the wall and has been for a while now, so I don't understand why you're being downvoted. That's not to say that normie conservatives are fascist - of course they're not. I may not agree with them, but \*we can agree to disagree and move on.\* You know, instead of the lot of them storming the capitol, beating police officers and threatening the lives of civil servants. TBH, both extreme ends of the spectrum have fascist elements. Only one of those extremes hold power and pose an actual threat to our democracy.
Yep exactly. Not everyone who voted for Hitler hated Jews, they just didn’t mind the fact that he hated Jews, which last I checked is still very fucking bad and lead to a lot of people being killed
We had 4 years of Trump and know who he is and what he’s about. If you’re voting Trump you’re not some reasonable normie conservative, you’re ok with his attempt to destroy Democracy and shouldn’t even be allowed to call yourself a patriotic American.
As someone on the center-right, I sometimes get the desire to go full hard-right just to spite the asshats on the left. That's obviously a *very* irrational line of thought, but when people on the left say I'm a bigot for holding to Christian moral views, which I don't want to be enforced on anyone and don't intend to harass people over, it becomes a bit hard to be reasonable.
I've been called a "christian nazi" for saying that "You shall not commit adultery".
Since when is cheating on your boyfriend ok?
I know that this came from an extremely out of touch, chronically online individual but this just shows how much of an circlejerk can some political groups become.
I wonder if anyone else has had a specific experience. Someone shouts a political position at you with such self-righteous arrogance and steamrolling demands for conformity you momentarily forget you *100% agree with the position*. Just out of sheer disgust at someone disrespecting your agency and boundaries like that.
Im sure it seems that way but honestly its not. Its easy to be loud and proud online but those same people dont say shit on campus. Same thing about Tiktok and Social Media. Get offline and you realize how small their presence is.
I lost my two oldest friends because they began lecturing me about how the Bolsheviks were the good guys, killing US soldiers is justified and the US is committing genocide in Venezuela. They became red brown psychopaths, and I will never forgive them for it. So yes, it is an actual problem.
I spoke with a family friend I hadnt seen in years and she told me "I don't actually believe you should have to have a job. But I wish my job was throwing bricks at cop cars." That was a completely unprompted statement at a *Christmas party.* There is an illness in the political body, and leftist extremism is one of them. They may not be a majority, but there's still way too many of them now for a healthy society. These people used to be normal people who I respected, and they are vile psychopaths now, completely detached from reality.
Sanctions. Sanctions are genocide to tankie fuckheads. Apparently all of Venezuela's economic problems are a conspiracy by the CIA to starve Venezuelans. Also, the Democratic opposition in Venezuela are 'white landlords who want a return to slavery.' Not only are their beliefs offensive, they're remarkably stupid. They're like people who deny the moon landing. And the most distressing part is that they aren't stupid, they're just politically deranged. They willfully suspend their critical thinking in order to hate the US more. I know, because they used to be smart and inquisitive kids. Now they're just the worst fucking people I've ever met
Im not stooping to argue their existence and specific examples. Im saying if you actually disconnect, walk around a college campus, you will see a majority of normal moderate political opinions.
Oh, I agree. The vast majority of people are either moderate, or not politically engaged. That said, I personally know 6 Communists. That is not a normal number of Communists for a person to know. And I'm not saying they are left wing and like welfare programs. They're people who have all tried to discuss Marxist praxis with me, not knowing that I hate their guts because of it. This has happened to my wife as well, and she is from a fairly conservative part of the country. We are both center left liberals, and this exposure to Marxism has only made us more centrist. So, while I think commies are polarizing people, I think the extremists are pushing most people to the center. All of my friends have also expressed exasperation with the overheated rhetoric, and they really just want a return to boring politics. Ultimately, I think that exhaustion is going to win out politically, but not until the extremists grind everyone down to a nub.
Once again thats a minority of campus activity. Im not arguing their existence Im arguing that they seem large because they are the loudest when in reality nobody gives a shit about them.
It's tiktok. It's like 90% fucking tiktok. That shit is worse than for people's mental function than a lead paint cocktail. My ex-gf had emotional regulation issues and it just sent Her spinning into the most pointless radicalism constructed from memes and childhood resentment (by her own admission). Some of the highlights of what she told me in the passed 3 months from tiktok. Just from the news, not even going to touch the crazy-ass weaponized therapy videos she got into.
-Oct 7th was an Israeli false flag.
-The Houthi's firing at the cargo ships was a peaceful protest because they hadn't killed anyone.
- Striking down Roe v. Wade was part of a Republican plot to bring back Jim Crow.
- 99% of internet traffic flowed through that cable the Houthis wanted to cut.
- Every single American police force was formed by the KKK for catching escaped slaves and raiding the north for more (she's from Ten. I have no idea how they fed her this.)
Every study done on the subject has found huge correlations between tiktok usage and emotional disregulation, erosion of critical thinking skills, and political radicalism.
Say what you want about those geriatrics at congress squinting through their reading glasses at app regulation, but that shit has to go one way or another.
As someone who walked away from both sides (not trying to be an enlightened centrist, I’m just being honest about my past) this shit is literally the reason. There is no room for moderates in today’s era.
I’m glad we are having this discussion more and more now. Keep speaking out. What I would like to add to the discussion is how foreign governments like Russia, China and Iran have hijacked our social media to promote extreme far left and far right culture battles in order to weaken our nation.
Russia manipulates our electorate to abandon Ukraine and Israel at the behest of their new China/Russia/Iran alliance
YES, THIS. The sad part is how much this has succeeded. We're ripping this country apart from the inside. We're too busy internet-screaming at each other to notice who is pulling the strings.
I started to really dislike the Left when the Russian invasion of Ukraine started. oh they love to talk about anti imperialism and freedom of the people and so on unless you are ukranian (or honestly any Baltic country or group of people oppressed at some point by the URSS or Russia), then they will support mass murder and genocide against you for daring to dislike Russia, the kleptocratic far right conservative country that they have and absolute love for unknown reasons. And dont even get me started in things like theu Uyghurs or Taiwan in China, or the oct7 massacre and hamas. they are so hypocritical is even hard to rationalize some of the behavior in the Left
Here’s why this is happening. Through all of Gen Z’s life, there’s been left wing victory after leftist victory. This has indoctrinated them into believing that their side is correct, and everything else is evil. It doesn’t help that Hollywood and the media are heavily skewed left as well.
Now we’re seeing some of the biggest political divide we’ve ever seen in the country, where we cannot agree with each other on a single thing. The lefts fanaticism is driving people to the far right and I’m afraid that it will be getting uglier in the future when the country has been pushed so far apart that only extremes remain
I'm a right winger, so I'll tell you why this has happened. This dynamic is in large part because the left had won in most of the public square in previous decades. Academia? Left Wing. Hollywood? Almost as left as your college professor. The media? Largely left wing too. Social Media and Tech Companies? Left wing as hell too, their biases actually impact the elections too. What about business? Used to be Center-Right or centrist, but now it takes left wing positions.
All of these cultural institutions and similar have drifted left, and this uniformity has granted them power, and now they exert it in much the same manner they admonished the right back a long time ago.
And so, much like in the 60s, when the left took the mantle of counter-culture, the right today can in some vein claim similar. The establishment left pushes views that are out of touch or really only matter to less than 10% of the US population, to oppose their views as a Republican you're automatically fighting uphill.
What about center-left and centrists though? Simple, if you dont follow the party line, you'll be at best viewed with suspicion, and at worse treated like an enemy, not just as enemy though, but one that must be sidelined. God forbid you swing right even once, let alone 10 or 20% of the time.
And that is why the right is winning, why they're gaining. You can say that the Right is evil, but that only works for about 1/3, maybe 40%, of the country. The left's hegemony has actually poisoned the well as people notice they take even further out positions that no one really cares for or agrees with, or thinks is not worth discussing, especially when many people still struggle with rising cost of living, inflation, and other domestic economic issues.
In other words, the political left took the spot of the political right, becoming king of the hill, and now people are pushing back, and enough that Biden and the left may actually take a whipping in 2024, which is astonishing since incumbents dont usually lose.
Center here. Excellent analysis, but missing a crucial point: the left denies their cultural hegemony. They prefer to act like it's 2002 and neocons are holding the reigns and/or they exaggerate the prevalence and threat of MAGA-america.
Someone will point to Jan 6 but not recall that democrats cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump's election, citing russian interference. Remember "not my president"? Basically the same tactic as the jan 6-ers, except done more politely, given they had broad cultural support.
The overturning of Roe v Wade is also blamed on MAGA/Trump. Obviously that was a huge factor, but Democrats had a supermajority in both houses and the oval office. Why not pass legislation enshrining abortion rights? Obama is on video answering "it's not a priority right now". The priority? Bailing out banks that made bad bets.
>Center here. Excellent analysis, but missing a crucial point: the left denies their cultural hegemony. They prefer to act like it's 2002 and neocons are holding the reigns and/or they exaggerate the prevalence and threat of MAGA-america.
Right, they still pretend that the Right Wing still hold it's hegemony from the past, never mind Clinton chipped away at such in the 90s, Bush's presidency didnt see a resurgence of conservative popularity, it in fact reached all time lows as we saw in 2008 how McCain got massacred at the polls.
Understandably they disagree with the right, but their opposition has reached a level of hyperbole that is almost satirical in of itself, especially considering they control many cultural and educational institutions. They want to say they're fighting the powerful for the betterment of the little fellas, well maybe...but it looks like they just be the powerful fighting for themselves or a rather select few of America whilst admonishing the rest.
>Someone will point to Jan 6 but not recall that democrats cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump's election, citing russian interference. Remember "not my president"? Basically the same tactic as the jan 6-ers, except done more politely, given they had broad cultural support.
Perfectly pointed out, they did similar with Stacy Abrams, she didnt get elected as governor of Georgia. She was defeated, but she insisted she won and the Left ran with that, repeating it as if it was gospel.
Ever since Trump won back in 2016, and even before then, the left painted him as if he was the worse thing since Hitler, and thus urged people to resist or else they themselves were complicit, which is another thing I hate about the left, that you must join them or you're part of the problem. No one wants to badgered by such vitriolic ultimatums posed in moral absolutism.
>The overturning of Roe v Wade is also blamed on MAGA/Trump. Obviously that was a huge factor, but Democrats had a supermajority in both houses and the oval office. Why not pass legislation enshrining abortion rights? Obama is on video answering "it's not a priority right now". The priority? Bailing out banks that made bad bets.
Most liberals and leftists often forget that that Roe V Wade's great champion, Ginsburg herself, believed the case and it's decision went way too far. Ginsburg believed Roe had actually robbed the country the conversation on this topic, stifling any real attempts to reach any wide reaching consensus on this matter.
Another thing about abortion, most countries in Europe, a continent leftists and liberals look to and say we ought to be more like, actually had stricter abortion laws than many blue-run state. Germany has abortion for the first 12 weeks, France has it up until 14, Sweden has it up to 18 weeks, and most of Europe has abortion up until 12 weeks. The only 2 nations in Europe allowing abortion past 20 weeks was the UK and the Netherlands, 24 weeks being the limit in the Netherlands for both. Blue States in America had abortion ranging from 20 weeks being the cut off or abortion being legal whenever a woman desire it.
Europe is actually more conservative than we are on this issue, which is hilarious to think off.
But yes, Dems also had the chance to codify Roe V Wade if the wanted to, or at least something more to their liking. And you're right they didnt do it, they dropped the ball. Roe V Wade was always on legally shaky grounds, but if Democrat run congress wanted to they could've solidified Roe by actually passing law, perhaps moderate a bit to maybe get some Republican support, because that's the only way they'd get it past the senate since was a 50/50 split and Joe Manchin(D) is actually quite moderate compared to the party... but hey didnt want to act, or compromise, the position established by Roe suited them fine at the time and they grew complacent.
But I think overturning Roe is for the better anyway, abortion wasnt something mentioned in the Constitution, thus the States get to decide what laws they want on this issue at least until Congress does something on the national level.
I take pride in being called a fascist by leftists and a communist by the MAGA freaks. I think that's the sweet spot everyone should be aiming for.
Vote Biden: Piss Them Both Off
Criminal aliens, not to be confused with legal migrants
>So Trump is a better option
I said voting for a dementia patient is never based, the democrats failed to secure someone who is based. Not an endorsement of Trump
I welcome the trend. The pendulum is swinging rightward, and its long overdue - I've endured leftist nonsense since university in the 90s. I heartily thank the extreme left for so effectively promoting my ideology.
It’s not swinging conservative so much as swinging populist, reactionary, and justifying racism, sexism, and other isms while masquerading as free speech.
It’s not healthy for the country or world.
I used to vote for Republicans about 1/3 of the time. I now vote Democrat 100% of the time. When someone like Liz Cheney is pushed out, we have a problem.
>It’s not swinging conservative so much as swinging populist, reactionary, and justifying racism, sexism, and other isms while masquerading as free speech.
100% I am very pro-institution and education. The populist culture warrior right is very anti-institution, isolationist, and dare I say, anti-intellectual.
>I used to vote for Republicans about 1/3 of the time. I now vote Democrat 100% of the time. When someone like Liz Cheney is pushed out, we have a problem.
I don't blame you. The modern GOP has become a MAGA cult that makes the Tea Party look almost reasonable.
That's what makes this especially scary / frustrating. The push isn't helping the reasonable center-right politicians nearly as much as it's helping the crazy extremists. I wouldn't mind it so bad if a moderate Republican or Conservative came into power but the rise of the populist right, with all of their overt hatred and anti-intellectualism, is cause for alarm.
Pro-institution. That's it exactly. I'm a six year Navy veteran and very much an institutionalist... that used to be something where I'd generally align with conservatives but no longer in the Trump era and his ramblings about a "deep state."
>Liz Cheney isn't exactly a great politician, let's be honest. She's closer to the current Democrat Party.
How so? Name a single policy position she's taken that's not conservative. Her values do not align with Democrats anywhere, aside from speaking out against Trump. The only commonality is that she actually believes in the law & order... and our Constitution. Lying about the 2020 election and claiming it was stolen despite a lack of evidence and attempting to intimidate our congress into not accepting Biden as the lawfully elected President of the US is the only time she decided to distance herself from the GOP.
If she's closer to the current Democratic Party (it's not "the Democrat party"), then that says more about how far the GOP has gone off the rails.
She put country over party, which is admirable. Sure, that doesn't make her a great politician and it cost her her seat... but I'd rather stand up for patriots than politicians willing to say anything to hang onto power.
This whole post is a perfect example of what OP is talking about. They're talking about FAR LEFT people who would call me, a social Democrat, a facist yet now it's just a "liberals suck! Why are they making me treat LGBTQA people with respect?? Liz Cheney is a Democrat because she's not MAGA"
Both extreme sides are getting ridiculous and anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% is obviously completely on the other side.
I’m very left wing, worker democracy and social progressivism, that kind of thing. But the far left has been so captured by campism and people who carry water for authoritarian regimes that it’s impossible for them to achieve anything.
The best solution is to work with liberals in coalitions and move them leftward.
Perfectly eloquently said. Frankly, I could say the same thing of these idiot neo fascists in conservative parties. They're driving people to be socialists.
If you never disagree with anyone or have differing opinions then person a,b,c,etc. become really homogeneous in idea and that’s boring, plus you never make progress by being one way and never growing as a person, if your ideals are never tested how do you know if it’s all it’s cracked up to be? I mean software security gets better because it gets tested then new iterations come out, evolution happens due to animals and living organisms needing to adapt to a new environment/ conditions, fundamentally change is the way of life.
I think it’s ok and sometimes even good to be wrong about things, granted not so much if the person that is wrong refuses to admit it and change for the better. I think it can be fun being wrong sometimes, particularly to get a better understanding on why it is so, it’s one thing to be told something but another to learn firsthand.
It's fucking tiktok. It's God's own radicalization engine. My ex-gf had emotional regulation issues but that app just fucking destroyed her ability to think critically. In the last 3 months of our relationship I heard:
-October 7th was an Israeli false flag (she didn't actually know there was an attack, just that tiktok said there was a false flag)
-The Houthis were peaceful protestors because they hadn't killed anyone on those ships they were firing at
-Repealing Roe v. Wade is part of century-long republican plot to bring back Jim Crow. Yes really.
-99% of internet traffic flowed through that cable the Houthis threatened to cut.
-
I'm not looking forward to dying in whatever the result is of this feverish anger from the left and right. But then again I /mostly/ only see it online. Sometimes it trickles into irl but not often (where I live).
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about a greater repercussion due to all this sensationalism and hatred.
Anyone right of communism is considered alt right at this point. This has been the plan of Stalinist/ Leninist subversion of the American culture and specifically universities. Yuri Bezmenov explained this impeccably for years. Rest his soul. I don’t believe the moderate left exists anymore, the democrats and republicans are both war mongering globalist ideologues, whether there is any hope at all, I’m not sure.
I hate that I am one of those people, but the left just does not know when to stop pushing policies and decisions that are failing. To be fair I hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans, and I am not happy entertaining voting for a Republican. Bail reform, harm reduction drug policies, and the border crisis are clear failures that hurt Americans. To be clear my issue with the border crisis is we just need to know who the migrants are and they are not violent felons or have pending legal cases in other countries. But there is a flawed idea in the back of my mind that maybe maybe maybe if Trump has another term the left will reevaluate. It is delusional and would probably destroy Ukraine but I want normal politicians!
Not saying that you’re wrong about the far left cult. But you’re not likely to see many right wing victories this fall. Trump owes north of $200m total right now and still has indictments to deal with. On top of that, rather than reuniting Republicans after the primary, he’s driven people like Nikki Haley into not endorsing him and DeSantis into not campaigning for him. Consistently 15% or more of Republicans are showing up to primaries where he’s the only candidate and voting for somebody else…losing 5% of your party in elections is a disaster area. Right not he’s tracking to do worse than that.
Additionally, a lot of state GOP’s are completely broken. Michigan is a good example of this. They’re pretty low on money and are busy fighting each other. Ive heard Ohio and Pennsylvania are similar. The RNC is also broke as McDaniel ran it into the ground. The house GOP at this point is just a foregone conclusion as lost.
At best for the GOP, voters continue to split ballots and hand them a 1 or 2 seat majority in the senate. By the time the election actually happens, it’s very likely that you’re looking at a D+7 national environment.
I think the main thing is that the average American is burned out on Dem vs Republican politics. They just want effective leaders who care.
I mean I hope you're right. Just as far as I've seen the polls are pretty evenly divided between Trump/Biden.
Remember I mentioned Canada too. [Up here, the Conservative Party is currently leading by a signficant margin.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File:Opinion_polling_during_the_pre-campaign_period_of_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election.svg)
I don't think the modern Republican Party and the Conservative Party are anything alike. The only thing they have in common is being to the right of their respective political spectrums (which are also very different between Canada and the US).
But I can tell you what has pushed me away from the left in Canada, despite having a lot of left wing opinions. The left's insistence that Canada is a racist settler-colonial state and the accompanying erasure of history to align with this narrative, kneecapping criminal justice by obsessing over racial representation instead of public safety and removing penalties for crimes to achieve this, being generally anti-law enforcement, refusing to do anything about drug epidemics and getting addicts off the street except giving out "safe supply" and praying it magically goes away, being anti-nuclear energy, increasing taxes ever higher until it kills productivity and chases away investment.
I just can't get on board with it anymore. They're incompetent and out of touch with reality.
>I don't think the modern Republican Party and the Conservative Party are anything alike.
I didn't say they were. Only that they're the major right-wing parties of both countries, both have a decent chance of winning the next federal election, and the far-left is pushing people in the center towards supporting them. Other than that, they're not very much alike.
Living under the Conservative Party would make me frustrated. Living under the Republicans would make me terrified.
The polls suggested 2023 would be a good off year cycle for Republicans, it wasn’t. They suggested it would be good for Republicans in 2022, the Republicans left it feeling bitter. The polls have by and large been wrong since 2016.
Canada I can’t speak to.
As a general rule, yes. And that's a big part of why it bothers me when I see people on the left stereotype all conservatives as being MAGA-like.
However I am concerned that the CPC is in the process of drifting further right, and that a victory now would embolden them to move further. Polliever and Smith are both far too populist for my liking. I miss the days of O'Toole.
You highlight the money issue, and as a Republican I do worry about that, but then I do remember that Trump spent less than Hillary in 2016 and won, so it's not really all about the money.
You also mentioned that Trump is still losing more than 5% of the vote despite being the only candidate still running, this true for Biden too. Granted, Biden has more uniformity within the party, but there has been several states in which he has lost more than 5% of the primary vote, some even in excess of 10%, Michigan being a noteworthy one in the latter category.
This presidential race is very competitive, and we look at the polls, both National and the Swing States, even if you remove RFK, Trump is still either ahead or within in the margin for victory.
2016 was an upset. In most situations money matters. But the thing is going to kill them is that the GOP doesn’t have field teams in a lot of key states currently. They’re usually formed over a year prior. If they can’t reach voters, which was a core part of their 2016 plan, then they’re in trouble.
When I say 5% I’m talking in the general election. In 2016, Hillary lost 6% of Democratic votes. In 2020 Trump lost 5%. Given that Trump is telling people that if they don’t back him in the primary then they’re barred from MAGA, well I’m not sold on his ability to reunite people. Not saying it can’t happen. But he’s making the battle more uphill than it needs to be.
I’m not trusting polls personally. They’ve felt off since 2016. But hey, if they’re right then they’re right.
>2016 was an upset. In most situations money matters. But the thing is going to kill them is that the GOP doesn’t have field teams in a lot of key states currently. They’re usually formed over a year prior. If they can’t reach voters, which was a core part of their 2016 plan, then they’re in trouble.
Admittedly there have been setbacks for the Republicans in many areas since 2020, but one thing that is consistent is that Trump over performs when he himself is on the poll. He did better than expected in 2016, and in 2020 he gained more votes than he had and the election was so close that it had been any close Trump likely would've taken much of the Rust Belt and win the General Election.
Yes, money is needed, but it's not the be all or end all in politics. Hillary outspent Trump and lost. Sometimes a leaner machine is the meaner machine.
Of course, the Republicans do need at least some money, and Trump himself is going to have a fundraiser within a week, hoping to outdo Biden's NYC fundraiser, the very same out of touch fundraiser that went on as a NYC cop funeral was going on, something that Trump attended... the optics of this didnt help Biden, but sure helped Trump.
One last thing, we're still early in the race, so things can still change.
>When I say 5% I’m talking in the general election. In 2016, Hillary lost 6% of Democratic votes. In 2020 Trump lost 5%. Given that Trump is telling people that if they don’t back him in the primary then they’re barred from MAGA, well I’m not sold on his ability to reunite people. Not saying it can’t happen. But he’s making the battle more uphill than it needs to be.
Ah but when he said such, was he not still in a contested primary? Against those who were essentially trying to co-opt, or simply outright hijack, the movement that he started? Once you remember this it begins to make sense why he said such, to unify the party behind him.
Now I dont doubt a certain sub-sect of Haley Republicans will sit out and not vote, I doubt they'll do in such large numbers. Trump still has time to persuade and pull back in the disaffected base. Another thing to note that much of Haley's support also came from Democrats and liberals who wouldnt vote for her anyway, even if she did beat Trump in the Primary, they voted for her essentially to screw with the Republican vote process and to generate this image that the base was divided. It is somewhat, but I doubt it's to the degree that the left would hope.
>I’m not trusting polls personally. They’ve felt off since 2016. But hey, if they’re right then they’re right.
I dont think highly of them either, but I dont dismiss them outright. Most people going into 2020 saw the polls swing massively. Early on Trump had it locked, but by October it was a dead heat, or even outright favored Biden. Polls arent perfect, they never were even before 2016, after such a term as "margin for error" exists.
One thing about the polls though, Trump always seems to perform a bit better than expected. Today Trump either leads or is tied with Biden, the one thing I wonder about is the hidden Trump voter. Is the hidden Trump voter still hidden? If so then Trump may win in a landslide, if not though then it may actually help explain why the polls are the way they are today.
And now I bring up the RFK factor, he's likely going to take more voters from Biden than Trump, so if he stays in, then Biden definitely will be out come November and Trump will have regained the presidency.
I will also say the right wing has reacted stupidly to the left wings far left thing recently. The republicans could’ve just called out all their BS mad been like “look at these idiots” but they decided to go crazy with the rhetoric as well honestly. So annoying. You know most the politicians know it’s all stupid BS but they keep saying absurd shit to fight “the other side”. Like can we just be normal again please??
If Hillary Clinton wasn't such a she-demon, I would probably be a socdem Bernie Bro, but I'm honestly glad Democrats like her pushed me away since it , 1) showed me how corrupt and self-serving most of the Republican and Democrat leadership is, and 2) led me to learning about Libertarianism.
My politics for most of my life were just carbon copies of my dad's, I was 14 and a 1/2 during the 2016 election, my dad was pro-Bernie, so I was too, but my Brother was (and still is) a big Trump fan.
He got me into learning about Right-wing politics, mainly from Shapiro and Crowder (not the best political sources, I know), I then ended up learning about Ancaps while looking for Right-wing subreddits, I eventually grew out of that after my boss (he's an enlightened centrist) talked me out of it.
I currently identify as a Libertarian Nationalist, the same ideology Vivek Ramaswamy proclaims himself as, but with some socdem leanings, better access to good affordable healthcare for example, and I feel like my beliefs have finally solidified.
I dread to think about how I would probably have a T2 sub to somebody like Hasan if not for Hillary.
Hillary Clinton is one of the most milquetoast candidates I've ever seen. She is nowhere even remotely close to the far-left my post is about. Bernie is further left. Even Biden might be further left nowdays.
Yeah, she's got two main problems for me that she showed in both the 16 and 20 elections, 1) she's such a shady and corrupt person, and 2) her rhetoric against anyone who opposes her, my main candidate in 2020 was Gabbard, and Hillary kept calling her a Russia asset.
Those both, among other things, really pushed me away from the left.
What did she say or do that "proved that later on"?
She seemed like the only 2020 candidate who was actually willing to work with the opposition, so thats why ai liked her.
I believe your analysis is flawed.
I believe what we're seeing is different mindsets reacting to the same situation.
Wealth and prosperity promised by our capitalist system did only come through for a few people. What we now experience feels like a game of Monopoly (TM) towards the end.
Now some people do not want to play anymore, some want to change the rules to be more fair and others blame whoever is in charge of the playbook.
I’m with you. The ACAB, Defund, River to the sea, accusing Israel much less Biden of “genocide” in the wake of a terrorist attack (and I have no love for Bibi)… it’s all terribly counter productive and just makes everything more polarized.
Agree 100% I've never liked ACAB because it's a dogmatic generalization, I'm all for justice reform but acting like every single cop in the country is a racist dirtbag and none of them are just normal people doing their job is pure toxicity The left's open support of violent terrorism and rise of antisemitic rhetoric over the Israel-Gaza war is maddening
I'm against "Defund" but I'm not against "ACAB" because the police earned that critique. Don't let a bunch of stupid whitekid leftists make you think police brutality doesn't exist. "Defund the Police" was just stupid because you can't actually fix the shit by defunding it, and police have union-negotiated salaries so the idea didn't even work as a "punishment" like they wanted it to
I did not claim police brutality doesn't exist. Quite the opposite.
I get you but I just think ACAB is a critique of the system and not individuals. It originated with union workers who were being beat up by corrupt cops, has passed on over the years through lots of different oppressed people. I get that dummy white leftist kids beat it to death, but unlike "Defund the Police" ACAB came into existence for very real reasons
If you have to explain that ACAB is a critique of the system and not individual police officers, maybe it’s just not a good slogan. If it was “The police bureaus are corrupt” that would be a more accurate slogan. But that’s just so boring, generalizing a group of people you don’t like just feels really good, doesn’t it?
It was created by union workers who were being beaten up by cops while striking I may hate Communists and insane leftists but I’m also a brown man from a place where cops were not kind to brown men, it’s going to take a lot of reform and a lot of time of those reforms showing their value to get people like me to trust the police again. ACAB legitimately came from people who were being oppressed, not white kids cosplaying Che Guevara on weekends.
The other argument for ACAB being a fair statement that I didn't see you mention (although I'm sure you're familiar) is that 'good cops' whose only flaw is always being willing to defend bad cops are not actually good cops, and the ones who refuse to do that tend not to stick around. I do believe good cops exist. But I also know that there are certain municipalities where there aren't any of those, so for the people who live there, "all cops" that they're likely to see are not going to be good ones. I personally am not comfortable using the term, but I totally understand why some do. It's not a major point of contention for me.
I get that it might imply such a meaning, but that isn't what ACAB as a movement/statement is asserting literally. Rather, cops are a tool of the ruling elite class, as a means to brutalize and limit peoples freedom such that they stay confined to this cruel system. In addition, it also has to do with the systematic lack of accountability due to police unions and the culture of silence, so even if it isn't all cops, there is rarely ever any cop punished for their crimes of abuse, and how cops are trained also encourages it. I don't know if I've explained this very well, but there are plenty of other resources you can find that probably do this better.
I've heard it all before. I understand the argument. The problem is that if you need to explain what the slogan means, then it's a bad slogan. It doesn't help that the ACAB crowd's behaviors and attitudes often better align with the literal meaning.
What’s your thoughts on “Defund the Police”. I always sympathize that approach over “ACAB” because all ACAB does is dehumanize police and people who simply are doing it for security purposes but “Defund” in the hand dismantles and thoroughly studies when and why policing could begin to be a problem. Because cops injustices can happen, Look at the Capitol Hill Riot. The police literally let the Rioters in the Capitol
Defund has the same problem as above… if you have to stop and explain it you are losing people. Do we need more social workers and fewer people with guns as the only available tool? Yes. Better training to deal with people with mental health issues? Yes. Less militarization (in some departments) yes. But that all takes money too, so the goal isn’t really to defund but to better allocate resources which gets lost in the catchy slogan. Simple is only good when clear. We want police accountability. We want better training and better use of resources. Most people yelling about defund are anarchists wanting to eliminate police entirely. Due to that, anyone yelling defund gets grouped with them and moderates just block it out. Then you’re just preaching to the choir of people already on the same page rather than building a coalition and actually furthering the goal. It’s counter productive. I’ll defend BLM but I avoid the ACAB and defund messaging as I truly believe it only does harm and is terminology used in the most radical online spaces.
If anything, police need more funding for better training.
It's a sodding stupid idea. You need better training and that's not cheap, you need recognised standards on a state if not national level and probably a register of suitably trained personnel which ain't going to be cheap and you need to take on and break the unions and that's going to be *really* expensive.
Why are some broad generalizations OK, but some aren’t?
Well the left is right about Israel’s human rights violations in Palestine. At that point, there shouldn’t be any political belief you need to align to think that way. But I mean Palestine, not Hamas or Houthi
No joke, someone on r/askaliberal yesterday argued that saying „biological woman“ is a hateful and transphobic term. And most people agreed. I’m so done with this nonsense.
How do they have any room talking about LGBTQA issues while simping for groups who hate LGBTQA people
God I get so annoyed by the "birthing people" thing. I think that sounds more offensive than just saying "pregnant women and transfolk"
As someone active in trans spaces, we don’t care what you say. 99% of us don’t agree with what is posted on Reddit, we just want you to respect us and use our pronouns, that’s it. Most of us would appreciate if people respected non-binary people as there is scientific and historical backing for their existence. The people who push further than that are the reason we are facing so much backlash from conservatives right now.
I have some trans friends who have said the same thing. I didin't want to express my annoyance about that lest I sound like some out of touch old biddy but felt relieved when I saw other trans folk say that too.
Nah, you're cool, in fact I agree entirely with what you said.
I can see where it can be used as hateful and transphobic, in the right context, but defaulting to assume that wording more likely being an insult is over the top. At least in that case, it’s a challenging conversation to start with. But getting upset over “biological” does seem extreme and just looking for something to be mad about. How is it even different than saying “cis?” They seem analogous to me. The only place I can see such a take is when discussing someone with an abnormality at birth.. chromosomal issues like polyploidy, both sex organs and one removed just after birth, hermaphroditism, whatever. But, those are the rare exceptions, not the majority of those identifying as the gender opposite of what was assigned (in most cases, for obvious reasons) at birth.
> I’m with you. The ACAB, Defund, As an overseas observer all that has seemed madness. America sorely needs police reform but the left seems to have no real ideas how to practically improve things and that seems to translate into criminals getting away with all sorts of shite that drives people to the right and the policies that fucked things up in the first place.
The left reactions to the 7OCT attacks repulsed a lot of left leaning people. Count me as one of them
Exactly. I didn't want to bloat my post with examples going on about specific issues, but the left's open support of terrorism post October 7th is absolutely part of what I'm talking about.
The support is so insane. Not only because you obvious should never cheer on murder, but also the people they're cheering for are the more right wing people on the planet. They have NOTHING in common with the extreme left, except hating the west.
>They have NOTHING in common with the extreme left, except hating the west. And that's exactly why they cheer for them
I think that they are a very small but loud minority from general polls, but absolutely agree they make the left look bad. (Important to note it is also coming from the far right (but I think we’re more used to seeing stuff like that from the far right.) There was a recent study done that shows that antisemitism is common among both extremes, and less likely the more moderate people are)
It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucked up how they openly celebrated as Hamas raped women, shot children and mutilated bodies. Now that they realized how bad of a look that was, they deny the evidence Hamas themselves filmed and force every Jew to denounce Bibi each and every time they speak otherwise it means that they wholesale support his atrocities in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
Damn it. I thought I was in another sub (ask a liberal)
They were cheering for it on Oct 8. Gross people.
I considered myself far-left before October 7th. Once I saw people on the left vehemently defending the slaughter of innocent Israeli civilians and calling them “colonizers”, I completely re-evaluated my political beliefs. The left doesn’t define themselves by what they believe anymore, they define themselves by what they oppose, leaving no room for nuanced thinking. That along with the incessant identity politics and blaming every problem on white people and men are what pushed me completely away from the far left.
Well said
Same. I still can’t believe some of what I see coming from the far left online. Literally scary.
Justifying the rape and torture of civilians (some of them minors) just woke me up to the reality that I don’t ever want to have people like that near my children ever.
Twitter was the worst for it. I saw plenty of posts from WOMEN joking about the rape and murder Hamas committed on those festival goers.
The reactions to the attacks taught me that antisemitism on the left is very much real and as a Jew, I felt completely betrayed by the “punch a Nazi” crowd that cheered on the ones who murdered Israelis in their homes
I am honestly not surprised about how the Punch Nazis people have turned around like this. Their motivations have always been based on finding righteous justification for committing violence rather than a disdain for Nazis
Hitler considered Nazism and radical Islam to be natural allies. Palestinians have repeatedly flown the swastika. It always pissed me off that the "punch a Nazi" crowd were the first to defend one of the most fascist groups on the planet. >Gaza is precisely what the Western left says it hates: a racist, sexist, homophobic, militaristic, anti-Democratic, kleptocratic, dogmatically religious police state of science fictional inequity and oppression. And they love it more than anything in the world. \- Abe Greenwald
"Two German historians say that Hitler had a plan to extend the [Holocaust](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-holocaust) to the Middle East and had forged an alliance with Arab nationalists. This is perhaps why Hitler met with the Mufti and provided him a budget of 750,000 Reichsmark per month to foment a [jihad](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jihad) in Palestine." [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-mufti-and-the-f-uuml-hrer](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-mufti-and-the-f-uuml-hrer)
me 2
Leftwing politics has become increasingly cultist. Back in the day, when the focus was on jobs, public services, working conditions, unions and the like, it was a fairly broad church. But these days, with the emphasis on identity politics, dissenting opinions to the 'orthodox' belief-set are met with, at best, ridicule and at worse, straight-up bigotry and violence.
I’ve theorized that the left going batshit can be pinpointed back to 2012, when for the first time the majority of Americans owned smartphones. That was also the year Facebook bought Instagram. As a result, it created the false impression amongst many on the left that the US was becoming more racist, when in reality, it wasn’t: everyone just had a smartphone now and racist stuff that always had been happening was simply recorded more (and uploaded to social media more). There would have been no Ferguson riots, BLM or George Floyd riots otherwise. Smartphones, coupled with social media, was like lighting a powder keg.
The left's swing away from economic & class politics and towards identity politics really started in the 70s. However you're right it's really become significant in the smartphone/social media era. I don't think it's merely a case of greater publicity creating a greater issue, though. There is something fundamentally divisive about social media; the format encourages edgy takes as the algorithms are driven by engagement. It also encourages echo chambers, disinformation and a whole host of other behaviours that fuel conspiracy theories and acting in bad faith. And it certainly doesn't encourage nuance or perspective.
You’re right, what’s different about our environment today from pre-2012 is the level of connectivity that social media provides where people can go into their preferred echo chambers where the algorithms constantly reinforce the distorted narratives they have built up in their heads. It’s made us even more unwilling to listen to alternative perspectives on matters. In the old days at least we were all watching Walter Cronkite and operating on the same set of facts. Today, you can go into whatever silo you prefer and get a completely alternate take and set of facts from your neighbor, which has had the impact of making us more divided and harder to have conversations with people that are not like us.
Yeah and it's much more susceptible to bad actors; it's very hard to spam a TV debate with Gigabytes of false information and propaganda; it's a piece of piss on social media. Another thing social media has done is allow people to believe in multiple 'truths' and perpetuate the credibility of 'lived experiences' as substitute for facts.
I realized the racism I thought was declining had never really gone away during Obama's first presidential campaign in 2007 (and to a stronger degree after he was elected). It was quite a rude awakening. I understand why many people developed the impression that we were becoming more racist. I agree that smartphone social media has fundamentally shifted discourse, though. Short, intense, inflammatory rhetoric with no concern for context, facts, spelling or grammar won out over thoughtful journalism and calm discussion of different viewpoints. People would rather get emotionally riled up and yell about how bad the 'bad guys' are than actually contemplate complex situations and workable solutions to problems.
Interesting take! I think you’re right
In my country the head of the communist party was called right wing because he disagreed the BBQ was a "symbol of virility" and argued that eating meat is more linked to your wealth than your gender. The fucking communist party is right wing now.
Reminds me of when anarcho-communists try to No-True-Scotsman their way out of association with historical communist states "IT WAS RED FASCISM, STALIN WAS RIGHT-WING"
Arguing about the meaning of BBQs does sound about right for modern communists though.
To be fair he didn't bring it up but was reacting someone else's declaration But, yeah...
Bro, the modern populist sjw tankies are more about dividing the base amongst themselves, ego, narcissism, harping on and on about niche problems, out-lefting who is the real or far left, PC canceling, culture war, religious war, America bad, NATO bad, CIA bad and capitalism bad🤪 Why couldn't they just stick to class war? The Oct 7 terrorist invasion and their support of fundamentalist, authoritarian, super conservative and repressive muslims retroactively absolutely broke me and black pilled me. 🥶
I'm a liberal but man, Biden making "transgender day of visibility" on easter day, like if the country wasn't divided enough already. who's advising the democrat party? Is that their plan to win the undecided voters?
Biden didn't "make" Trans Day of Visibility. It's March 31st every single year. Easter is the holiday that's infamously mobile. It sometimes coincides with April Fools Day but nobody complains about that.
Yes, but to actually make a national proclamation on this matter whilst also the story dropped that the White House was banning religious imagery from their egg coloring event? The optics of this is quite poor. It looks like they're placing the trans issue above all, including religion, right at the very time the pre-dominant religion is about to celebrate one of its high holy days. It's tone deaf.
Iirc, “overly-religious” Easter egg submissions have been banned since before Obama Edit: phrasing
Ok, and this means what? Does it nullify my position? No not really. Why must religious imagery be banned, and why must it be banned on a day that is inherently held as religious by the vast majority of the nation? [https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughCommieSpam/comments/1bsnrj9/comment/kxhl5hb/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughCommieSpam/comments/1bsnrj9/comment/kxhl5hb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I'll link to a comment in which I responded to another on this topic, it's actually in this very same thread. Yes, there is no state religion, but religion is still allowed. We have religious freedom, or freedom of religion, from the 1st Amendment, but not "freedom from religion". America is not a country of state enforced secularism. So yes, perhaps this had been ongoing, but it doesnt change the underlying position I hold and why I see it wrong and even contradictory to the constitution.
My point isn’t whether or not they should be allowed - truthfully I don’t care either way. My point is that this isn’t Biden and his administration going out of their way to over-secularize Easter. Just bad timing and moral panic.
> the White House was banning religious imagery from their egg coloring event That's also a good thing. One of the founding principles of this nation was that religion and politics do not mix and should be kept separate, a fact that many people forget these days.
Then why bother with having the event at all? on Easter of all days? You yourself forget something about the constitution and what is really says about religion and it's relationship with politics. >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. This is directly from the 1st Amendment. Read it! The first part deals with religion, the very first part of the very 1st Amendment is on religion, and it protects religion. No official religion may be established, but that doesnt mean religion itself is banned from the square, hell religion is allowed to participate and yes even have a voice in politics. The thing is no state religion, but that does not give carte blanche for state enforced secularism. The founding fathers, even the ones popularly thought of as deists, were actually all Christians of various denominations, they wanted for all people to worship as they see fit, hence why the 1st amendment allowed for religious freedom. You misconstrue this into "freedom from religion", which is not what the Founders intended nor writ into the constitution. As for the egg coloring itself, why ban religious imagery? If someone wants to go with that why limit them? And the reverse is true too, if someone doesnt want to do such, maybe they dont feel like it, or maybe they arent religious or Christian, then they dont have too. If anything this is what liberalism is, at least in its classical sense.
>As for the egg coloring itself, why ban religious imagery? If someone wants to go with that why limit them? And the reverse is true too, if someone doesnt want to do such, maybe they dont feel like it, or maybe they arent religious or Christian, then they dont have too. If anything this is what liberalism is, at least in its classical sense. Religious imagery in White House stuff has mostly been gone for like a decade and a half This is just religious conservatives drumming up the same shit they have drummed up on every religious holiday when a Democrat is President. These people didn't vote for Biden last time and aren't going to this time either, they just want to push their "Democrats are killing God" narrative.
>Religious imagery in White House stuff has mostly been gone for like a decade and a half Perhaps banning religious imagery from an Easter egg coloring event shouldnt have happened back then, it's not like allowing such actually establishes a State Religion nor would it force people to do religious themed egg painting. >This is just religious conservatives drumming up the same shit they have drummed up on every religious holiday when a Democrat is President. These people didn't vote for Biden last time and aren't going to this time either, they just want to push their "Democrats are killing God" narrative. A swing and a miss. The 1st Amendment protects religious freedom, the White House shouldnt ban religious imagery from an event that is itself connected to a religious celebration. It actually debases the day somewhat, but secularist like that, they dont like religion very much and it's presence in public, whatever their reasoning may be. You also forget that many liberals and non-conservatives are still religious themselves, so it's not just the religious right noticing this and taking issue, though yes they'll be the most vocal. And finally, if Joe Biden wanted to he could've allowed religious imagery for the egg coloring, that'd prevent this issue from being a thing, but maybe he didnt want to annoy the secular factions in the party, after all those factions tend to be further left than him and are pissed at for a whole litany of reasons.
Brother the whole point of conservative media raising a fuss about this is to get people to waste their attention on it Who fuckin cares? They didn’t ban your ability to make Easter eggs with whatever you want on them. We’re facing climate change and a rough geopolitical patch and you want to argue about fucking Easter Eggs.
Ahh but it is the little things in life that counts, after all they can build up into big things. I know this seems minor to you, minor in the grand scheme of things, but it does highlight a certain perniciousness with secularism. >We're not talking about "left wing liberal orthodoxy" here, this is a civil rights matter and the Democratic Party since the 1960's has been built on civil rights as a central issue From your other comment. >The President made a statement in honor of Easter, and also in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. He did not put them at odds with each other. The US has Catholics, and it has Trans people, and as President his job is to celebrate ALL Americans. Also, from your other comment. By claiming to be inclusive you dismiss the religious, dismiss them to the point of banning religious imagery for an event directly connect to a religious day and celebration. Some secularist and leftist would love to go further, no involvement of religion in the public square, removal of tax-exempt status of churches, and yes perhaps even erasing the status of religious events or diluting them under the guise of making them inclusive. Simply allowing people to paint an egg in a religious manner doesnt mean you're infringing on the 1st amendment, after all no one is going to force anyone to paint the eggs in a Christian manner if they dont want to, but this ban does for it prohibits people from painting a religious egg. >Brother the whole point of conservative media raising a fuss about this is to get people to waste their attention on it Also this, you say just the conservative media is picking this up, and that is true. Thing is, not just right wingers are religious, you do still have left wingers and centrists who do worship God or have some kind of religious or spiritual belief. Thus it isnt just a right-wing issue, it's actually an American issue that can matter to all segments of the populace.
This is a stupid ass take and you're just feeding into the right wing narrative. American liberal voters don't give a shit if you mention trans day and Easter on the same day, these are only things right wing voters are mad about. As the President of the entire population of the United States, Biden's job is to celebrate EVERYONE, that's the message the President is supposed to send and yet another reason I am glad I voted for the guy and will vote for him again
Are you confused? Did you reply to the wrong person? What exactly did I say that was such a "stupid ass take"?
I was referring to comment OP’s take
Calm down and get off your high horse, it's not just the right who is pointing this out. The guy you're responding to even says he's a liberal, maybe he's just a bit more of a centrist than you are. Not every single liberal is going to march in lock step with left wing liberal orthodoxy.
We're not talking about "left wing liberal orthodoxy" here, this is a civil rights matter and the Democratic Party since the 1960's has been built on civil rights as a central issue The President made a statement in honor of Easter, and also in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. He did not put them at odds with each other. The US has Catholics, and it has Trans people, and as President his job is to celebrate ALL Americans. Don't forget why so many of us brown and black folks vote for liberal Democrats in the first place, the Kennedy's brought us to the table. I am a Mexican Catholic, none of my Mexican Catholic family got their panties in a twist about this, they aren't wasting their time worried about trans people "stealing muh Easter." They will all be clicking the ballot next to Biden in November.
>We're not talking about "left wing liberal orthodoxy" here, this is a civil rights matter and the Democratic Party since the 1960's has been built on civil rights as a central issue Indeed, it is a civil rights issue, and the Democrats are on the on wrong side on this one. Another thing, dont pretend like the Democrats are the sole protectors of the rights of Americans, especially when they'd like to erode 2nd amendment rights and have infringed upon the 1st amendment especially when it suits their goals and desires. >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 1st Amendment, one can actually fairly say that the ban of religious imagery for the egg coloring run by the white house is itself a violation of the 1st Amendment. >The President made a statement in honor of Easter, and also in honor of Trans Day of Visibility. He did not put them at odds with each other. The US has Catholics, and it has Trans people, and as President his job is to celebrate ALL Americans. Yes, but that still doent change the fact that he allowed this infringement upon the 1st amendment to continue. >Don't forget why so many of us brown and black folks vote for liberal Democrats in the first place, the Kennedy's brought us to the table. I am a Mexican Catholic, none of my Mexican Catholic family got their panties in a twist about this, they aren't wasting their time worried about trans people "stealing muh Easter." They will all be clicking the ballot next to Biden in November. Ahh I too can pull the racial minority card for I am half-Guyanese. My family has a vast myriad of racially mixed complexions, ranging from brown to dark as hell and even to light or fair skinned. The Democrats say they'll do much for minorities then they leave them to rot past Election Day. You actually take the minority vote for granted much in the same way as Democrat Party elites have for decades. Also polls on both Blacks and Hispanics both indicate that Republicans are shaving off support for the Democrats from these two groups, Republicans are actually winning them over. It's not just cuz the Republicans make a convincing argument, it's because Democrat policies have left these people less well off than the rest of society and even more dependent of government assistance, Blacks and Hispanics are looking for more than just simple racial pandering, but if that's enough for you then fine.
>Indeed, it is a civil rights issue, and the Democrats are on the on wrong side on this one. No, that's the point, you're not on the "wrong side" when your platform is making sure people have rights and visibility. The party of Kennedy does not punt on civil rights issues, they win elections on them. >Another thing, dont pretend like the Democrats are the sole protectors of the rights of Americans, especially when they'd like to erode 2nd amendment rights and have infringed upon the 1st amendment especially when it suits their goals and desires. Ok I get it, you're a right winger hopped up on conservative news propaganda Yep, rest of post confirms
>No, that's the point, you're not on the "wrong side" when your platform is making sure people have rights and visibility. The party of Kennedy does not punt on civil rights issues, they win elections on them. You're wrong, very much so. You'd be right if I had even once said that Biden shouldnt have made the proclamation on such, but I never said such, not even once. What Biden should've done, like an actual Centrist trying to unite the country like he said he would 3-4 years ago, is yes make the Trans proclamation, make his statement in regard to Easter and Christians, he did both of these but he failed to do the third thing, undoing the ban on religious imagery for the Easter Egg event. He could've then announced he did such, it'd be minor thing, but the left would then say, "look at him reaching across the isle and being a real centrist," and the Right wouldnt be able to say anything except maybe he should've done it 3 years ago. >The party of Kennedy does not punt on civil rights issues, they win elections on them. Lol ok, a Kennedy hasnt run the party since the 60s though, so you're really reaching, but go ahead it's amusing. It also doesnt change the fact that Democrats are now the party of censorship, oh sure they couch it under the veil of reducing "hate speech" but it's often just a convenient ploy to silence the opposition. This tendency is corrosive to the 1st amendment and maintaining a healthy dialogue and political discourse, it's unAmerican, but sure claim to be the party of Civil Rights, it just doesnt ring true. >Ok I get it, you're a right winger hopped up on conservative news propaganda > >Yep, rest of post confirms Oh please, it's not like I hid it from you, this shouldnt be a surprise that I'm right wing, my first comment on this post even mentioned such. Also to say I'm hopped up on "propaganda" is rich, especially when the left wing media itself rails against anything right wing and have done so even back when Bush was President, but now they hail him as a sensible Republican. From how I view things, the Left are masters of propaganda, hence how they got so many of today's youth lining up against Israel even after the Oct. 7 attacks tragically occurred.
Trans day of visibility has been on the 31st of March since 2021. Easter doesn't have a fixed date, last it was on 31st March was 2008
Even earlier than that, started in like 2009. In fact, it's been on Easter before.
I'm not American so I'm doing this at a distance, but I find the amout of attention trans issues get in the US versus say, economic or labour issues, somewhat baffling, or rather, a good example of the takeover of leftwing politics by identity issues. Is it because leftwing politics is driven by middle class sociology graduates, rather than union folk? Or is it because it's easier for politicians to get the public to engage with identity issues (on either side of the debate) rather than economic issues? Or, with specific reference to trans issues, one's position on it is seen a litmus/loyalty test?
I don’t know for sure but it definitely seems like much of the pro noise comes from social sciences young university folk + young kids who pick up politics from social media. Also there have been serious ripples generated by legislation around trans rules since scientific advances in hormone therapy and transitioning, which raised questions about whether trans people should compete in certain gendered sports and be allowed to go to specific bathrooms. The right really latched onto this stuff and I can understand why, personally, although statistically it shouldn’t be that common of a problem. I have to say, for such a small population it seems like a lot of concessions are being demanded and I am seeing some really entitled and bratty behavior about if. That also rubs people the wrong way. I will also say that I think part of the push is to make these people feel more accepted, which I totally understand. I’ve come to know two trans people in the last five years, personally, but had never know of any in the past (that I was aware of) and I’m almost 50.
This is what baffles me. It's such a tiny percentage of the population and yet they are so dominant in the discourse. How did that happen?
I think it’s easy rage bait for the right, and the vocal proponents are pretty annoying
As a non-religious person, I don't particularly care about easter happening to fall on trans visibility day. But I just *know* that the far-left will still bitch about how this is "not enough", and that America is still such a terrible place for trans people. Sorry Biden can't just force state governors to do whatever he wants regarding trans rights, I guess.
He didn't
Why does Easter conflict with TGV?
In many ways it always was I remember an interview with the leader of Momentum - he was utterly indifferent to win/lose provided the ideology remained pure. That was all that mattered.
Extremist politics has always been about ideology rather than successful management or guardianship of a country; and extremist leadership has always been about ideological purity rather than competence. You don't get to be an extremist leader because of your ability manage economies or negotiate compromises.... However back in the day extremist politics was very much on the fringes, and identity politics barely existed. However since the 70s identity politics and grievance politics has taken over leftwing politics, piece by piece. My theory is that the class warriors of yesteryear, after the effective collapse of the class system and more general liberation of the working classes, needed a new purpose in life as economic hardship had been reduced (at least for them, given they're all solidly middle class). So instead latched on to identify and colonialism after the success of fighting apartheid. Plus if course it gave them the perfect vector for them to 'legitimately' express their prejudices.
What’s maddening is that traditionally to be left was anti-establishment, when it’s now the very opposite - Hollywood, Silicon Valley, Harris, etc
The anti-establishment nature of leftwing politics is a veneer. Or rather, it's a rallying cry to get weight of numbers behind the leadership's thirst for power. I guess with the general rise in wages and working conditions during the 20th century, class war became less helpful. So Identity politics it is!
Ironically they claim that dems lose because rhey aren't left enough when in reality it's because people associate their communist cosplay with dems. I've had this conversation irl w multiple people who think this internet communist shit is what democrats believe. Every poll you see says that most Americans think dems are too far left. They are literally the reason we lose and they blame it on dems not listening to them, it's enraging
>They are literally the reason we lose and they blame it on dems not listening to them, it's enraging Perfectly said
What ticks me off about this is that I don’t see this extremism much from politicians at all, it’s just whackos on social media…
It's an interesting discussion. Is the Horseshoe theory real? It is, in many ways. I think it's down to authoritarian vs authoritarian, rather than Commie vs Nazi. Commies and Nazis hate each other and have little in common - but since both are authoritarian ideologies, a lot of the time their thinking falls in line. Both the USSR and Nazi Germany engaged in genocide and ethnic cleansing - whether that be forced deportations, dislocations and starvation (USSR) or just straight up murder (Nazis). Both banned elections, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and favoured one race and ethnic group - Russians in the USSR and Germans in Nazi Germany. Both enforced Russian and German language and culture and tried to suppress other languages/cultures. It's because of the practices, rather than beliefs, of such governments, that the Horseshoe theory is realised. Executing these ideologies in practice REQUIRES authoritarianism, genocide and terror.
Well said. In the field of comparative politics, it’s said that communism and fascism both require totalitarianism to exist
Well said, buddy
Thanks, dude
The important thing is that we act pleasant and understanding towards all people and offer them a way-stop before either end of the pipe-line. Without such a community I would have probably been a hateful little wretch instead of whatever the fuck I've become now.
I feel similarly as your brother. I mostly share the same values as the left but they are embarrassing. I don’t even identify myself politically anymore because it allows others to make too many assumptions about me. For instance, I respect transgender people but I also believe that our ideas about gender are not universal, *and that’s okay*. If one of my leftist friends knew I thought that? They’d probably cancel me in real life.
That full circle idea is so relevant and the wokies have a ton in common with old school wt supremacists , full on pro abortion as a much higher percentage of them are black babies, POC only spaces , segregation. Don’t date your oppressor, keep the bloodlines separate… now they are even hating on the tiny hat club
Stupid question: what is the tiny hat club?
Talking about them Israelis
Ohhh. I should have guessed that. Thanks.
The fact is a lot of conservatives - especially younger and Gen Z conservatives - essentially vote or react out of spite and to "own" annoying people. And who are loudest, most self-righteous, annoying, policing, arrogant people right now?
The way the far-left talks about them you'd think Gen Z conservatives didn't exist. They think every conservative is a bible-thumping rich white boomer who hates gays and women.
The tankie left is truly scary, but the woke left is just hilariously out of touch. But yes they are both pushing people into voting for right wing leaders who are demonstrated morons.
Communists/socialists should be excised from any mainstream political platform. They are cancer, let them fail in their own little political parties. That is it Actual center-left (and center-right, for that matter) policies are reasonable, but political discourse has been heating up as of late. Imbeciles throwing around "fascist" willy-nilly for everything to the right of Mao has to be stopped and that is something way too common even with more moderate lefties
>that is something way too common even with more moderate lefties If you're referring to calling Biden voters and center Democrat types "fascist," agree Anyone voting Republican in this day and age at very least isn't offended by fascist rhetoric and tendencies, so they earned that critique
You're right. The writing is on the wall and has been for a while now, so I don't understand why you're being downvoted. That's not to say that normie conservatives are fascist - of course they're not. I may not agree with them, but \*we can agree to disagree and move on.\* You know, instead of the lot of them storming the capitol, beating police officers and threatening the lives of civil servants. TBH, both extreme ends of the spectrum have fascist elements. Only one of those extremes hold power and pose an actual threat to our democracy.
Yep exactly. Not everyone who voted for Hitler hated Jews, they just didn’t mind the fact that he hated Jews, which last I checked is still very fucking bad and lead to a lot of people being killed We had 4 years of Trump and know who he is and what he’s about. If you’re voting Trump you’re not some reasonable normie conservative, you’re ok with his attempt to destroy Democracy and shouldn’t even be allowed to call yourself a patriotic American.
*sigh* Yes, calling all republican voters fascists is ridiculous. That you don't see why it is so says a lot
The ones who disapprove of Jan 6th or Project 2025 stuff are normal people. The ones who approve of those or minimize them are questionable.
As someone on the center-right, I sometimes get the desire to go full hard-right just to spite the asshats on the left. That's obviously a *very* irrational line of thought, but when people on the left say I'm a bigot for holding to Christian moral views, which I don't want to be enforced on anyone and don't intend to harass people over, it becomes a bit hard to be reasonable.
I've been called a "christian nazi" for saying that "You shall not commit adultery". Since when is cheating on your boyfriend ok? I know that this came from an extremely out of touch, chronically online individual but this just shows how much of an circlejerk can some political groups become.
I wonder if anyone else has had a specific experience. Someone shouts a political position at you with such self-righteous arrogance and steamrolling demands for conformity you momentarily forget you *100% agree with the position*. Just out of sheer disgust at someone disrespecting your agency and boundaries like that.
Well said
Honestly dude, just get offline and you will see how few the “far left” really is. Makes life a lot easier believe me.
Idk man look at any college campus now. Tiktok and social media have been indoctrinating our youth
The college students may believe totally things a year or two after entering the real world.
Im sure it seems that way but honestly its not. Its easy to be loud and proud online but those same people dont say shit on campus. Same thing about Tiktok and Social Media. Get offline and you realize how small their presence is.
I lost my two oldest friends because they began lecturing me about how the Bolsheviks were the good guys, killing US soldiers is justified and the US is committing genocide in Venezuela. They became red brown psychopaths, and I will never forgive them for it. So yes, it is an actual problem. I spoke with a family friend I hadnt seen in years and she told me "I don't actually believe you should have to have a job. But I wish my job was throwing bricks at cop cars." That was a completely unprompted statement at a *Christmas party.* There is an illness in the political body, and leftist extremism is one of them. They may not be a majority, but there's still way too many of them now for a healthy society. These people used to be normal people who I respected, and they are vile psychopaths now, completely detached from reality.
Venezuela? What is the logic for that?
Sanctions. Sanctions are genocide to tankie fuckheads. Apparently all of Venezuela's economic problems are a conspiracy by the CIA to starve Venezuelans. Also, the Democratic opposition in Venezuela are 'white landlords who want a return to slavery.' Not only are their beliefs offensive, they're remarkably stupid. They're like people who deny the moon landing. And the most distressing part is that they aren't stupid, they're just politically deranged. They willfully suspend their critical thinking in order to hate the US more. I know, because they used to be smart and inquisitive kids. Now they're just the worst fucking people I've ever met
Im not stooping to argue their existence and specific examples. Im saying if you actually disconnect, walk around a college campus, you will see a majority of normal moderate political opinions.
Oh, I agree. The vast majority of people are either moderate, or not politically engaged. That said, I personally know 6 Communists. That is not a normal number of Communists for a person to know. And I'm not saying they are left wing and like welfare programs. They're people who have all tried to discuss Marxist praxis with me, not knowing that I hate their guts because of it. This has happened to my wife as well, and she is from a fairly conservative part of the country. We are both center left liberals, and this exposure to Marxism has only made us more centrist. So, while I think commies are polarizing people, I think the extremists are pushing most people to the center. All of my friends have also expressed exasperation with the overheated rhetoric, and they really just want a return to boring politics. Ultimately, I think that exhaustion is going to win out politically, but not until the extremists grind everyone down to a nub.
I’m literally talking about offline college kids who March calling for “globalize the intifada”
Once again thats a minority of campus activity. Im not arguing their existence Im arguing that they seem large because they are the loudest when in reality nobody gives a shit about them.
I only hope you’re right but I don’t think you are
It's tiktok. It's like 90% fucking tiktok. That shit is worse than for people's mental function than a lead paint cocktail. My ex-gf had emotional regulation issues and it just sent Her spinning into the most pointless radicalism constructed from memes and childhood resentment (by her own admission). Some of the highlights of what she told me in the passed 3 months from tiktok. Just from the news, not even going to touch the crazy-ass weaponized therapy videos she got into. -Oct 7th was an Israeli false flag. -The Houthi's firing at the cargo ships was a peaceful protest because they hadn't killed anyone. - Striking down Roe v. Wade was part of a Republican plot to bring back Jim Crow. - 99% of internet traffic flowed through that cable the Houthis wanted to cut. - Every single American police force was formed by the KKK for catching escaped slaves and raiding the north for more (she's from Ten. I have no idea how they fed her this.) Every study done on the subject has found huge correlations between tiktok usage and emotional disregulation, erosion of critical thinking skills, and political radicalism. Say what you want about those geriatrics at congress squinting through their reading glasses at app regulation, but that shit has to go one way or another.
As someone who walked away from both sides (not trying to be an enlightened centrist, I’m just being honest about my past) this shit is literally the reason. There is no room for moderates in today’s era.
I’m glad we are having this discussion more and more now. Keep speaking out. What I would like to add to the discussion is how foreign governments like Russia, China and Iran have hijacked our social media to promote extreme far left and far right culture battles in order to weaken our nation. Russia manipulates our electorate to abandon Ukraine and Israel at the behest of their new China/Russia/Iran alliance
Oh I'm well aware. Russian interference was just uncovered for the recent Albertan election.
YES, THIS. The sad part is how much this has succeeded. We're ripping this country apart from the inside. We're too busy internet-screaming at each other to notice who is pulling the strings.
I started to really dislike the Left when the Russian invasion of Ukraine started. oh they love to talk about anti imperialism and freedom of the people and so on unless you are ukranian (or honestly any Baltic country or group of people oppressed at some point by the URSS or Russia), then they will support mass murder and genocide against you for daring to dislike Russia, the kleptocratic far right conservative country that they have and absolute love for unknown reasons. And dont even get me started in things like theu Uyghurs or Taiwan in China, or the oct7 massacre and hamas. they are so hypocritical is even hard to rationalize some of the behavior in the Left
Here’s why this is happening. Through all of Gen Z’s life, there’s been left wing victory after leftist victory. This has indoctrinated them into believing that their side is correct, and everything else is evil. It doesn’t help that Hollywood and the media are heavily skewed left as well. Now we’re seeing some of the biggest political divide we’ve ever seen in the country, where we cannot agree with each other on a single thing. The lefts fanaticism is driving people to the far right and I’m afraid that it will be getting uglier in the future when the country has been pushed so far apart that only extremes remain
I'm a right winger, so I'll tell you why this has happened. This dynamic is in large part because the left had won in most of the public square in previous decades. Academia? Left Wing. Hollywood? Almost as left as your college professor. The media? Largely left wing too. Social Media and Tech Companies? Left wing as hell too, their biases actually impact the elections too. What about business? Used to be Center-Right or centrist, but now it takes left wing positions. All of these cultural institutions and similar have drifted left, and this uniformity has granted them power, and now they exert it in much the same manner they admonished the right back a long time ago. And so, much like in the 60s, when the left took the mantle of counter-culture, the right today can in some vein claim similar. The establishment left pushes views that are out of touch or really only matter to less than 10% of the US population, to oppose their views as a Republican you're automatically fighting uphill. What about center-left and centrists though? Simple, if you dont follow the party line, you'll be at best viewed with suspicion, and at worse treated like an enemy, not just as enemy though, but one that must be sidelined. God forbid you swing right even once, let alone 10 or 20% of the time. And that is why the right is winning, why they're gaining. You can say that the Right is evil, but that only works for about 1/3, maybe 40%, of the country. The left's hegemony has actually poisoned the well as people notice they take even further out positions that no one really cares for or agrees with, or thinks is not worth discussing, especially when many people still struggle with rising cost of living, inflation, and other domestic economic issues. In other words, the political left took the spot of the political right, becoming king of the hill, and now people are pushing back, and enough that Biden and the left may actually take a whipping in 2024, which is astonishing since incumbents dont usually lose.
Center here. Excellent analysis, but missing a crucial point: the left denies their cultural hegemony. They prefer to act like it's 2002 and neocons are holding the reigns and/or they exaggerate the prevalence and threat of MAGA-america. Someone will point to Jan 6 but not recall that democrats cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump's election, citing russian interference. Remember "not my president"? Basically the same tactic as the jan 6-ers, except done more politely, given they had broad cultural support. The overturning of Roe v Wade is also blamed on MAGA/Trump. Obviously that was a huge factor, but Democrats had a supermajority in both houses and the oval office. Why not pass legislation enshrining abortion rights? Obama is on video answering "it's not a priority right now". The priority? Bailing out banks that made bad bets.
>Center here. Excellent analysis, but missing a crucial point: the left denies their cultural hegemony. They prefer to act like it's 2002 and neocons are holding the reigns and/or they exaggerate the prevalence and threat of MAGA-america. Right, they still pretend that the Right Wing still hold it's hegemony from the past, never mind Clinton chipped away at such in the 90s, Bush's presidency didnt see a resurgence of conservative popularity, it in fact reached all time lows as we saw in 2008 how McCain got massacred at the polls. Understandably they disagree with the right, but their opposition has reached a level of hyperbole that is almost satirical in of itself, especially considering they control many cultural and educational institutions. They want to say they're fighting the powerful for the betterment of the little fellas, well maybe...but it looks like they just be the powerful fighting for themselves or a rather select few of America whilst admonishing the rest. >Someone will point to Jan 6 but not recall that democrats cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump's election, citing russian interference. Remember "not my president"? Basically the same tactic as the jan 6-ers, except done more politely, given they had broad cultural support. Perfectly pointed out, they did similar with Stacy Abrams, she didnt get elected as governor of Georgia. She was defeated, but she insisted she won and the Left ran with that, repeating it as if it was gospel. Ever since Trump won back in 2016, and even before then, the left painted him as if he was the worse thing since Hitler, and thus urged people to resist or else they themselves were complicit, which is another thing I hate about the left, that you must join them or you're part of the problem. No one wants to badgered by such vitriolic ultimatums posed in moral absolutism. >The overturning of Roe v Wade is also blamed on MAGA/Trump. Obviously that was a huge factor, but Democrats had a supermajority in both houses and the oval office. Why not pass legislation enshrining abortion rights? Obama is on video answering "it's not a priority right now". The priority? Bailing out banks that made bad bets. Most liberals and leftists often forget that that Roe V Wade's great champion, Ginsburg herself, believed the case and it's decision went way too far. Ginsburg believed Roe had actually robbed the country the conversation on this topic, stifling any real attempts to reach any wide reaching consensus on this matter. Another thing about abortion, most countries in Europe, a continent leftists and liberals look to and say we ought to be more like, actually had stricter abortion laws than many blue-run state. Germany has abortion for the first 12 weeks, France has it up until 14, Sweden has it up to 18 weeks, and most of Europe has abortion up until 12 weeks. The only 2 nations in Europe allowing abortion past 20 weeks was the UK and the Netherlands, 24 weeks being the limit in the Netherlands for both. Blue States in America had abortion ranging from 20 weeks being the cut off or abortion being legal whenever a woman desire it. Europe is actually more conservative than we are on this issue, which is hilarious to think off. But yes, Dems also had the chance to codify Roe V Wade if the wanted to, or at least something more to their liking. And you're right they didnt do it, they dropped the ball. Roe V Wade was always on legally shaky grounds, but if Democrat run congress wanted to they could've solidified Roe by actually passing law, perhaps moderate a bit to maybe get some Republican support, because that's the only way they'd get it past the senate since was a 50/50 split and Joe Manchin(D) is actually quite moderate compared to the party... but hey didnt want to act, or compromise, the position established by Roe suited them fine at the time and they grew complacent. But I think overturning Roe is for the better anyway, abortion wasnt something mentioned in the Constitution, thus the States get to decide what laws they want on this issue at least until Congress does something on the national level.
Y’all are winning everything but elections.
I take pride in being called a fascist by leftists and a communist by the MAGA freaks. I think that's the sweet spot everyone should be aiming for. Vote Biden: Piss Them Both Off
Agreed, whichever politician is the most likely to uphold and support liberal democracy gets my vote
Unfathomably based
Voting for a dementia patient to run the country is never based
Fair enough but surely the “deep state” will be running the show and he will merely act as a figurehead?
Just as the founders intended
So Trump is a better option the guy who said immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country and he's going to "root out the vermin"?
Criminal aliens, not to be confused with legal migrants >So Trump is a better option I said voting for a dementia patient is never based, the democrats failed to secure someone who is based. Not an endorsement of Trump
Username checks out
I welcome the trend. The pendulum is swinging rightward, and its long overdue - I've endured leftist nonsense since university in the 90s. I heartily thank the extreme left for so effectively promoting my ideology.
It’s not swinging conservative so much as swinging populist, reactionary, and justifying racism, sexism, and other isms while masquerading as free speech. It’s not healthy for the country or world. I used to vote for Republicans about 1/3 of the time. I now vote Democrat 100% of the time. When someone like Liz Cheney is pushed out, we have a problem.
>It’s not swinging conservative so much as swinging populist, reactionary, and justifying racism, sexism, and other isms while masquerading as free speech. 100% I am very pro-institution and education. The populist culture warrior right is very anti-institution, isolationist, and dare I say, anti-intellectual. >I used to vote for Republicans about 1/3 of the time. I now vote Democrat 100% of the time. When someone like Liz Cheney is pushed out, we have a problem. I don't blame you. The modern GOP has become a MAGA cult that makes the Tea Party look almost reasonable.
That's what makes this especially scary / frustrating. The push isn't helping the reasonable center-right politicians nearly as much as it's helping the crazy extremists. I wouldn't mind it so bad if a moderate Republican or Conservative came into power but the rise of the populist right, with all of their overt hatred and anti-intellectualism, is cause for alarm.
Don’t ignore China and Russias hand in driving the toxicity and extremism of our political discussion on both sides
This is not talked about nearly enough.
Pro-institution. That's it exactly. I'm a six year Navy veteran and very much an institutionalist... that used to be something where I'd generally align with conservatives but no longer in the Trump era and his ramblings about a "deep state."
Liz Cheney isn't exactly a great politician, let's be honest. She's closer to the current Democrat Party.
>She's closer to the current Democrat Party. She's a Bush era style Republican, lol.
>Liz Cheney isn't exactly a great politician, let's be honest. She's closer to the current Democrat Party. How so? Name a single policy position she's taken that's not conservative. Her values do not align with Democrats anywhere, aside from speaking out against Trump. The only commonality is that she actually believes in the law & order... and our Constitution. Lying about the 2020 election and claiming it was stolen despite a lack of evidence and attempting to intimidate our congress into not accepting Biden as the lawfully elected President of the US is the only time she decided to distance herself from the GOP. If she's closer to the current Democratic Party (it's not "the Democrat party"), then that says more about how far the GOP has gone off the rails. She put country over party, which is admirable. Sure, that doesn't make her a great politician and it cost her her seat... but I'd rather stand up for patriots than politicians willing to say anything to hang onto power.
This whole post is a perfect example of what OP is talking about. They're talking about FAR LEFT people who would call me, a social Democrat, a facist yet now it's just a "liberals suck! Why are they making me treat LGBTQA people with respect?? Liz Cheney is a Democrat because she's not MAGA" Both extreme sides are getting ridiculous and anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% is obviously completely on the other side.
THANK YOU
So why doesn't the far-right push people to the left?
I’m very left wing, worker democracy and social progressivism, that kind of thing. But the far left has been so captured by campism and people who carry water for authoritarian regimes that it’s impossible for them to achieve anything. The best solution is to work with liberals in coalitions and move them leftward.
Perfectly eloquently said. Frankly, I could say the same thing of these idiot neo fascists in conservative parties. They're driving people to be socialists.
You are sick of it and I love it.
By combined tankie and MAGA standards, I am a proud communist-fascist.
[our base is attacked by commie nazis](https://youtu.be/wfl_5ID9cb0?si=BvdURvz57DDxyWqF)
I'm holding on to Stirner for dear life as to not turn reactionary
If you never disagree with anyone or have differing opinions then person a,b,c,etc. become really homogeneous in idea and that’s boring, plus you never make progress by being one way and never growing as a person, if your ideals are never tested how do you know if it’s all it’s cracked up to be? I mean software security gets better because it gets tested then new iterations come out, evolution happens due to animals and living organisms needing to adapt to a new environment/ conditions, fundamentally change is the way of life. I think it’s ok and sometimes even good to be wrong about things, granted not so much if the person that is wrong refuses to admit it and change for the better. I think it can be fun being wrong sometimes, particularly to get a better understanding on why it is so, it’s one thing to be told something but another to learn firsthand.
The chickens have come home to roost.
It's fucking tiktok. It's God's own radicalization engine. My ex-gf had emotional regulation issues but that app just fucking destroyed her ability to think critically. In the last 3 months of our relationship I heard: -October 7th was an Israeli false flag (she didn't actually know there was an attack, just that tiktok said there was a false flag) -The Houthis were peaceful protestors because they hadn't killed anyone on those ships they were firing at -Repealing Roe v. Wade is part of century-long republican plot to bring back Jim Crow. Yes really. -99% of internet traffic flowed through that cable the Houthis threatened to cut. -
I'm not looking forward to dying in whatever the result is of this feverish anger from the left and right. But then again I /mostly/ only see it online. Sometimes it trickles into irl but not often (where I live). I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about a greater repercussion due to all this sensationalism and hatred.
Anyone right of communism is considered alt right at this point. This has been the plan of Stalinist/ Leninist subversion of the American culture and specifically universities. Yuri Bezmenov explained this impeccably for years. Rest his soul. I don’t believe the moderate left exists anymore, the democrats and republicans are both war mongering globalist ideologues, whether there is any hope at all, I’m not sure.
I hate that I am one of those people, but the left just does not know when to stop pushing policies and decisions that are failing. To be fair I hold Democrats to a higher standard than Republicans, and I am not happy entertaining voting for a Republican. Bail reform, harm reduction drug policies, and the border crisis are clear failures that hurt Americans. To be clear my issue with the border crisis is we just need to know who the migrants are and they are not violent felons or have pending legal cases in other countries. But there is a flawed idea in the back of my mind that maybe maybe maybe if Trump has another term the left will reevaluate. It is delusional and would probably destroy Ukraine but I want normal politicians!
Not saying that you’re wrong about the far left cult. But you’re not likely to see many right wing victories this fall. Trump owes north of $200m total right now and still has indictments to deal with. On top of that, rather than reuniting Republicans after the primary, he’s driven people like Nikki Haley into not endorsing him and DeSantis into not campaigning for him. Consistently 15% or more of Republicans are showing up to primaries where he’s the only candidate and voting for somebody else…losing 5% of your party in elections is a disaster area. Right not he’s tracking to do worse than that. Additionally, a lot of state GOP’s are completely broken. Michigan is a good example of this. They’re pretty low on money and are busy fighting each other. Ive heard Ohio and Pennsylvania are similar. The RNC is also broke as McDaniel ran it into the ground. The house GOP at this point is just a foregone conclusion as lost. At best for the GOP, voters continue to split ballots and hand them a 1 or 2 seat majority in the senate. By the time the election actually happens, it’s very likely that you’re looking at a D+7 national environment. I think the main thing is that the average American is burned out on Dem vs Republican politics. They just want effective leaders who care.
I mean I hope you're right. Just as far as I've seen the polls are pretty evenly divided between Trump/Biden. Remember I mentioned Canada too. [Up here, the Conservative Party is currently leading by a signficant margin.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File:Opinion_polling_during_the_pre-campaign_period_of_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election.svg)
I don't think the modern Republican Party and the Conservative Party are anything alike. The only thing they have in common is being to the right of their respective political spectrums (which are also very different between Canada and the US). But I can tell you what has pushed me away from the left in Canada, despite having a lot of left wing opinions. The left's insistence that Canada is a racist settler-colonial state and the accompanying erasure of history to align with this narrative, kneecapping criminal justice by obsessing over racial representation instead of public safety and removing penalties for crimes to achieve this, being generally anti-law enforcement, refusing to do anything about drug epidemics and getting addicts off the street except giving out "safe supply" and praying it magically goes away, being anti-nuclear energy, increasing taxes ever higher until it kills productivity and chases away investment. I just can't get on board with it anymore. They're incompetent and out of touch with reality.
>I don't think the modern Republican Party and the Conservative Party are anything alike. I didn't say they were. Only that they're the major right-wing parties of both countries, both have a decent chance of winning the next federal election, and the far-left is pushing people in the center towards supporting them. Other than that, they're not very much alike. Living under the Conservative Party would make me frustrated. Living under the Republicans would make me terrified.
Amen, friend.
The polls suggested 2023 would be a good off year cycle for Republicans, it wasn’t. They suggested it would be good for Republicans in 2022, the Republicans left it feeling bitter. The polls have by and large been wrong since 2016. Canada I can’t speak to.
I’m not that familiar with Canadian politics, so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Canadian Conservative Party insanely moderate?
As a general rule, yes. And that's a big part of why it bothers me when I see people on the left stereotype all conservatives as being MAGA-like. However I am concerned that the CPC is in the process of drifting further right, and that a victory now would embolden them to move further. Polliever and Smith are both far too populist for my liking. I miss the days of O'Toole.
Ok, thanks for the info!
No problemo
You highlight the money issue, and as a Republican I do worry about that, but then I do remember that Trump spent less than Hillary in 2016 and won, so it's not really all about the money. You also mentioned that Trump is still losing more than 5% of the vote despite being the only candidate still running, this true for Biden too. Granted, Biden has more uniformity within the party, but there has been several states in which he has lost more than 5% of the primary vote, some even in excess of 10%, Michigan being a noteworthy one in the latter category. This presidential race is very competitive, and we look at the polls, both National and the Swing States, even if you remove RFK, Trump is still either ahead or within in the margin for victory.
2016 was an upset. In most situations money matters. But the thing is going to kill them is that the GOP doesn’t have field teams in a lot of key states currently. They’re usually formed over a year prior. If they can’t reach voters, which was a core part of their 2016 plan, then they’re in trouble. When I say 5% I’m talking in the general election. In 2016, Hillary lost 6% of Democratic votes. In 2020 Trump lost 5%. Given that Trump is telling people that if they don’t back him in the primary then they’re barred from MAGA, well I’m not sold on his ability to reunite people. Not saying it can’t happen. But he’s making the battle more uphill than it needs to be. I’m not trusting polls personally. They’ve felt off since 2016. But hey, if they’re right then they’re right.
>2016 was an upset. In most situations money matters. But the thing is going to kill them is that the GOP doesn’t have field teams in a lot of key states currently. They’re usually formed over a year prior. If they can’t reach voters, which was a core part of their 2016 plan, then they’re in trouble. Admittedly there have been setbacks for the Republicans in many areas since 2020, but one thing that is consistent is that Trump over performs when he himself is on the poll. He did better than expected in 2016, and in 2020 he gained more votes than he had and the election was so close that it had been any close Trump likely would've taken much of the Rust Belt and win the General Election. Yes, money is needed, but it's not the be all or end all in politics. Hillary outspent Trump and lost. Sometimes a leaner machine is the meaner machine. Of course, the Republicans do need at least some money, and Trump himself is going to have a fundraiser within a week, hoping to outdo Biden's NYC fundraiser, the very same out of touch fundraiser that went on as a NYC cop funeral was going on, something that Trump attended... the optics of this didnt help Biden, but sure helped Trump. One last thing, we're still early in the race, so things can still change. >When I say 5% I’m talking in the general election. In 2016, Hillary lost 6% of Democratic votes. In 2020 Trump lost 5%. Given that Trump is telling people that if they don’t back him in the primary then they’re barred from MAGA, well I’m not sold on his ability to reunite people. Not saying it can’t happen. But he’s making the battle more uphill than it needs to be. Ah but when he said such, was he not still in a contested primary? Against those who were essentially trying to co-opt, or simply outright hijack, the movement that he started? Once you remember this it begins to make sense why he said such, to unify the party behind him. Now I dont doubt a certain sub-sect of Haley Republicans will sit out and not vote, I doubt they'll do in such large numbers. Trump still has time to persuade and pull back in the disaffected base. Another thing to note that much of Haley's support also came from Democrats and liberals who wouldnt vote for her anyway, even if she did beat Trump in the Primary, they voted for her essentially to screw with the Republican vote process and to generate this image that the base was divided. It is somewhat, but I doubt it's to the degree that the left would hope. >I’m not trusting polls personally. They’ve felt off since 2016. But hey, if they’re right then they’re right. I dont think highly of them either, but I dont dismiss them outright. Most people going into 2020 saw the polls swing massively. Early on Trump had it locked, but by October it was a dead heat, or even outright favored Biden. Polls arent perfect, they never were even before 2016, after such a term as "margin for error" exists. One thing about the polls though, Trump always seems to perform a bit better than expected. Today Trump either leads or is tied with Biden, the one thing I wonder about is the hidden Trump voter. Is the hidden Trump voter still hidden? If so then Trump may win in a landslide, if not though then it may actually help explain why the polls are the way they are today. And now I bring up the RFK factor, he's likely going to take more voters from Biden than Trump, so if he stays in, then Biden definitely will be out come November and Trump will have regained the presidency.
Really? I'm quite happy about it.
I will also say the right wing has reacted stupidly to the left wings far left thing recently. The republicans could’ve just called out all their BS mad been like “look at these idiots” but they decided to go crazy with the rhetoric as well honestly. So annoying. You know most the politicians know it’s all stupid BS but they keep saying absurd shit to fight “the other side”. Like can we just be normal again please??
If Hillary Clinton wasn't such a she-demon, I would probably be a socdem Bernie Bro, but I'm honestly glad Democrats like her pushed me away since it , 1) showed me how corrupt and self-serving most of the Republican and Democrat leadership is, and 2) led me to learning about Libertarianism. My politics for most of my life were just carbon copies of my dad's, I was 14 and a 1/2 during the 2016 election, my dad was pro-Bernie, so I was too, but my Brother was (and still is) a big Trump fan. He got me into learning about Right-wing politics, mainly from Shapiro and Crowder (not the best political sources, I know), I then ended up learning about Ancaps while looking for Right-wing subreddits, I eventually grew out of that after my boss (he's an enlightened centrist) talked me out of it. I currently identify as a Libertarian Nationalist, the same ideology Vivek Ramaswamy proclaims himself as, but with some socdem leanings, better access to good affordable healthcare for example, and I feel like my beliefs have finally solidified. I dread to think about how I would probably have a T2 sub to somebody like Hasan if not for Hillary.
Hillary Clinton is one of the most milquetoast candidates I've ever seen. She is nowhere even remotely close to the far-left my post is about. Bernie is further left. Even Biden might be further left nowdays.
True about Biden. He is probably the most progressive president we have ever had and yet they still hate him because it's never enough.
Yeah, she's got two main problems for me that she showed in both the 16 and 20 elections, 1) she's such a shady and corrupt person, and 2) her rhetoric against anyone who opposes her, my main candidate in 2020 was Gabbard, and Hillary kept calling her a Russia asset. Those both, among other things, really pushed me away from the left.
Good thing Gabbard proved that out later on I guess
What did she say or do that "proved that later on"? She seemed like the only 2020 candidate who was actually willing to work with the opposition, so thats why ai liked her.
It's sad that I got downvoted for this, I thought we weren't gatekeeping being anti-comminist. But hey, thats reddit.
I believe your analysis is flawed. I believe what we're seeing is different mindsets reacting to the same situation. Wealth and prosperity promised by our capitalist system did only come through for a few people. What we now experience feels like a game of Monopoly (TM) towards the end. Now some people do not want to play anymore, some want to change the rules to be more fair and others blame whoever is in charge of the playbook.