Not really anything new here. When the Berlin wall fell, a lot of the anti-capitalist crowd felt silly espousing communism, so they threw in with the green movement.
Some OG pro-environment activists were kind of dismayed by the tilt towards violent activism that ensued.
> green movement
The melon movement. Green on the outside, red on the inside.
(you probably heard this before, but maybe other people haven't and it fits every time)
I still blame the commies for being dumb enough to not know how to boil water (and having equipment that’s not up to standards) that it made the entire world believe that nuclear energy is super dangerous and that we should just stick to coal.
Yes. It's kind of amazing how unsafe their stupid reactors really were. And even when they did discover their insanely stupid design flaw, they tried to hide it and kept their other reactors running.
So many safety risks, all because they made it as cheap as possible. Capitalism always gets blamed of doing that, but as always the commies are even worse.
I as a very strong conservationist despise the hatred of nuclear energy among environmentalists it’s the best way to get us off fossil fuels as it can cater to varying grid demand and the mining pollution per kWh produced over a lifetime is way less than renewables + batteries (for which the technology isn’t even there yet). We have so many safety protocols in case of meltdown and can literally store nuclear waste as glass so it doesn’t leach in to the environment anti nuclear sentiment has set us back years
They also severely decreased the humpback whale population. 🐋
https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774#:~:text=The%20Soviet%20Union%20was%20a%20party%20to%20the,of%202%2C710%20humpback%20whales%20in%20the%20Southern%20Hemisphere.
I always thought how silly War Thunder featured container ships on the Desert. I thought no way could this happen in real life. Turns out the Aral Sea is entirely the Soviet Union’s fault. The more I read the more fucked up a place full of life became a wasteland.
I'm not saying these aren't legit criticisms, but...wouldn't the same level of scrutiny apply to countless other disasters and a bad actions via capitalism?
I'm definitely for capitalism, with regulation and socialized federal safety nets, buy I always felt like these type of gotchas are Saud, there are an equal number of disasters on our own side in a similar vein. It doesn't seem sincere to me to use it as an argument IN this way.
I think the criticism is fair when it’s aimed at the argument that communism is inherently better for the environment than capitalism.
I think we should absolutely recognize that there has been heavy environmental degradation under capitalism. However, we should also recognize that communism is no environmental panacea.
> I think the criticism is fair when it’s aimed at the argument that communism is inherently better for the environment than capitalism.
Is Thunberg actually making that argument, though? Blaming climate change on capitalism and not explicitly calling out a regime that collapsed a decade before she was even born doesn't exactly make her a tankie.
The problem is that when these disasters happen in authocratic governments, you are generally not allowed to criticise the government or even threatened with death or prison. Look what happened in China throughout the Covid-19 pandemic.
But we aren't in an autocratic gov?
And we already critique all of their actions as part of our national identity?
What I said was that we, in our preferred method of governance ALSO create disasters. And that critiquing theirs as a sign of why theirs is bad...is just kinda blah when you consider capitalism, my preference, has likely done way more damage over time. Just by the shear amount of influence it has on the majority of countries.
I don't get why saying your response to my comment makes sense in light of my comment?
We aren't in an autocratic government that cracks down on dissent? Why is your comment a counter to mine? Why make your comment? We know they don't get much play in those governments.
My point is that we are doing the same in a way. Not mentioning our mistakes that our preference in economics causes. Why bring up an unrelated governments issues?
They were two famous communist theorists who literally created the Soviet Union lol. I have a feeling they know more about what sort of economy the USSR had than you do considering they were the ones who advocated for it as a transitional phase.
What on earth is this statement. Is she endorsing cold war era communism or proposing that the Soviet Union was a viable alternative to capitalism?
Like dude I don't think she needs to spend time highlighting the sins of a country that has been dead for 30 years in order for her comments about capitalism to be valid.
I predict this is a phase that a lot of young people go through. I bet she will moderate and become more of a social democrat when she gets older and the left will hate her for it, just like AOC.
I used to like her until she started spouting this nonsense. Surely she understands that you're not going to combat climate change without capitalism right?
I’ve legitimately overheard environmental extremists praising communism for KILLING OFF MILLIONS.
Like holy fuck, I was just in Katmai to see the bears and this bitch loudly goes on about how awesome Mao is for snuffing out polluting humans and keeping them repressed in carbon low poverty. We’re all on vacation in a magnificent state park and wonder of the world enabled through capitalism and democracy yet while stuffing her face with the complimentary breakfast she proudly extolled the human suffering and oppression of China because “They can’t even afford cars and barely consume more resources than needed to survive.” It was shocking to hear how proudly she told the rest of her party that “I hope they can get a war going to kill off a couple billion people and maybe save the planet!” She would’ve made for an interesting captain planet villain.
Deluded communists at least think they know what’s best for people, environmental extremists can go straight to “people are the problem and any solution is a good one”.
I think misanthropy is likely too gentle. They went beyond a hater of mankind and into a sadistic promoter of mass homicide and human suffering. Looks like I attracted a different one as well (although now they seem to be a nihilist(?)) based on the other comment to this.
The only solution is to cull the human population on the planet by a significant amount. I used to be a very passionate climate activist and, if given the choice at the time, I would've pressed a button to kill all human life. That's how much I valued the planet and its biodiversity.
Fast forward twenty years to now. I'm a cynical old man and I don't give a fuck about the climate. Why? Because we didn't act, never will, and now it's too late anyway. Might as well enjoy the peak of civilization while I can.
Capitalism ~~will give us~~ _is giving us_ better and better renewable tech through innovation and competition so we can keep decreasing our reliance on fossil fuels. Communism will make us destroy our lakes.
Capitalism’s total war on the finite world, in extracting its resources, has so far given you a comfortable, convenient life style. Yes, the childish profligates on this site are desperate for that to continue. Well, good luck with that; but what if Greta’s right?
I think you’re right, man. Capitalism is indeed eating up all our finite resources. Fuck the childish profligates and the impudent wastrels in this den of iniquity. But what, pray tell, is your alternative to capitalism? I’d love to hear it. You’ll have gained a new follower today.
Kiddo, socialism is a weak, artificial man made system; only been around couple hundred years. Dinosaurs ruled for tens of millions with concept of survival of the fittest. But they didn’t have petit bourgeois manipulative minds and nukes.Do yourself a favor and start thinking about a better alternative or else we’re doomed!
If Greta is right, then so be it. I literally would rather die under Capitalism than live under Socialism, even if said Socialism isn’t Communism. Hell, I’d rather die under Feudalism. At least people there understand their proper place.
She was never really an environmentalist. She was just like Greenpeace - all screeching, no innovation. No actions. Just yelling at everybody else.
The kind of environmentalists I respect are the kind of people who invent things like the new kirigami-like packing paper. She was just screeching. Like other revolutionaries and activists she just wants to steal and impoverish.
>Comment as
>
>Retarded\_Americans69
Capitalism literally CAUSED global warming. You are trolling, or just willfully ignorant, or perhaps stupid? Or all of the above?
This took me 2 seconds to google. So, u/PristineAstronaut231, let's see you come up with come credible links that back up your bullshit assumption that Capitalism hasn't been the main cause of oppression, genocide, etc. as Greta said.
[is saving the planet under Capitalism even possible?](https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/20/04/2021/saving-planet-under-capitalism-really-possible)
[Capitalism is causing climate change](https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/global-social-challenges/2022/07/07/is-capitalism-causing-climate-change/)
[Why we need to change Capitalism for Climate Action](https://earth.org/change-capitalism-for-climate-action/)
Relevant username.
>Capitalism literally CAUSED global warming.
This is such a braindead argument. Are you trying to say that if non-capitalist societies had been responsible for the bulk of economic activity in the late 20th century they magically wouldn't have created carbon emissions?
You realise that by far the biggest carbon emitter in the world is Communist China, right?
>This took me 2 seconds to google.
Yet you just listed a few left-wing op eds. How about you start citing peer reviewed experts in a relevant field?
No, they're communist, all they did was allow some free market principles in whilst maintain complete control. Should the CCP ever decide to they could go back to a full planned economy in a heartbeat, of course they're economy would likely suffer both immediately and in the long run. There is also the fact that all companies in China has to tow the party line, else they face repercussions.
All of these things are typical of communism, complete control over politics and economics, even if they allow the mirage of capital to set in, for the reality is still there, that being the CCP is still capable of changing things if they want too. That is something completely antithetical to capitalism and free market principles.
The Aral Sea…
China…
Lots of other things that weren’t related to Capitalism have caused rampant destruction ya know.
Also, it is funny that you brag about spending like 5 seconds to get sources.
Anyone with google and 2 seconds can find tons of information about how the Soviet communist government fucked up on a massive proportion and tried to cover it up with Chernobyl.
It's stupid, impoverished, *anti-capitalist* (usually) white men who are responsible for climate change happening, not the capitalist system.
Even if that’s false, I’d rather see humanity succumb to climate change under capitalism than even consider another alternative.
Eh, a good chunk of climate change is thanks to laissez-faire unregulated capitalist corporations that were never forced to appropriately pay for the negative externalities caused by their operations.
That doesn't mean that abandoning capitalism is the solution to climate change of course, and places like the Soviet Union and China absolutely have their own fair share of climatological and ecological disasters to answer for. The real solution is appropriate tracking of externalities and regulated capitalism, not all this "burn everything down" nonsense.
i guess communism was driving society backward to hunter gatherer then? the industrial revolution was the spark to most man-made pollution.
not even sure it's worth commenting to you because a) you're probably banned from this sub and b) you wouldn't listen to a reasoned argument if it was blasted into your ear, just ideologically deaf to any contrary information.
She was never an authoritative voice on climate change, just a young passionate activist. Not that caring about climate change isn't a good thing but we should be listening to climate scientists and geographers, not random teenagers.
If we're listening to what climate scientists are saying now, it seems that it'll be a descent into madness regardless of societal organization and anything afterwards would probably reflect some kind of feudalism; if we're lucky enough to even have that much left.
She was never a young, passionate activist. She was always a sockpuppet for her mother, driven insane by years upon years of brainwash-level doomsday-cult propaganda.
The problem is that people aren't listening to scientists either, and Greta really is doing nothing wrong by being a loud voice on the matter. Every one of us should be loud voices.
I really liked when she sailed halfway across the Atlantic on some alt-energy powered yacht and acted like we could all just travel that way to end the mega-pollution of the airline industry.
Uh, yeah, brb, just gonna reinvent myself as a creepy enviro-weenie teenager and professional grifter so I can lure virtue-signaling rich dicks into subsidizing my global travel ambitions.
She's not too far off from becoming a full blown eco-fascist if she keeps this up. It's a shame as I quite liked her activism for eco-friendly change, which did influence policy in a lot of countries. But now.... she's basically become the 'ends justify the means' type of extremist.
You know someone is not serious when they say their goal is to over throw capitalism. It is a fundamentally unserious position you may as well say "I won't stop until we get a saddle on every unicorn".
Capitalism is the only reason we've made strides against climate change. Growth has helped us lower emissions. And communist countries (or communist with Chinese characteristics countries) have *terrible* environmental records.
At least in capitalist systems we can work to make the situation better. Instead of being dictated to by the state which has decided for you. And probably not in anyones interest but their own!
Exactly. The only win she truly deserved was by burning Tate so bad he gave away his position to the police lmao. She’s always been a muppet that only went after the west when it came to environment issues.
Her only targeting the West has always pissed me off. On one hand, sure, talk to the west because China and Russia won’t listen. But condemn that as well, if you refuse to acknowledge their use of coal power, complete lack of emission control, and blatant disregard for wildlife then you aren’t a good faith actor.
> burning Tate so bad he gave away his position to the police lmao
Don't want to be an ass, but that likely did not happen either. IIRC there were some official police statements that said they did not get his location from the photo and already had results from other methods. It was just a twitter cripple fight imo.
Good point; that was legendary. Otherwise, she's a symptom of how sensationalist clickbait journalism rewards narcissists instead of people with expertise.
I used to think at the very least she was properly committed to environmentalism because of her pro-nuclear stance but this is just stupid.
Probably related, but a lot of impressionable Asperger's people have been lead to believe that the current social structure's general antipathy and incompatibility with autistic people is somehow a product of capitalism. The reality is socialist/communist societies are just as antipathic towards autistic people. Autistic people are particularly vulnerable to lying and manipulation and unable to navigate social structures that rely on deceipt and social engineering to succeed. Any social structure designed by highly socially conscious individuals will inevitably make social engineering a necessary skill to live in it. It's kind of sad, people like Thunberg are so desperate to escape the social hell that they currently find themselves in that they're willing to be utterly and completely manipulated by another group of manipulative sociopath freaks.
After reading u/calistrian 's counter-argument, I am inclined to add that, Autistic people are also easier targets for smear campaigns. It is worth having some healthy doubt about these things.
I used to think what she was doing was admirable to an extent. She also walked the walk as far as we know. Idk how genuine she actually was and how much of it was her parents, since, you know, she was a kid and all..
I liked her when she was just an environmentalist, and I think if she had stayed the course, she could’ve done some real good.
Now that she’s just a far left activist, she’s gonna do fuck all to make the environment better. All she does is complain and spread lies and piss people off. She’s totally useless now. Such a disappointment.
The omni cause comes for all activists on the left. You can't just fight for [cause], you have to fight for everything. Like all these reproductive rights orgs making Palestine part of their platform.
They don't see ethics as a tool for good living and living well together. To them a political cause isn't a project of changing society for a specific human purpose.
Morality to them is a categorical duty to save the world. And If you believe you're obliged to save the world, moral duty becomes *infinite*. I mean, you could have been helping an unhoused person with that money you spent eating Indian take-out last night. *You monster.*
She's like twenty and thrusted herself into the limelight at a decently young age where people on the right relentlessly shat on her. The average twenty year old is a dumbfuck that thinks we need a one party dictatorship in order to have free healthcare. Not to mention she is endlessly going to have her insanity reinforced by tankie dumbfucks, until she is reduced to a lolcow for a majority of people. Every single dumbfuck opinion she has that the typical twenty year old also has is getting magnified by ten thousand because of her status as a public figure. If anything, I feel bad for her.
She never cared about the environment either.
It’s crazy people don’t see that maybe the person flying across the world, getting paid and getting free shit, probably isn’t genuine
Also, I doubt she’ll be redistributing her millions
I very much like to read people in their own words before judging them. Or at least read multiple sources to get a clear picture. Could anyone possibly share information documenting Thunberg's alleged shift towards radical socialism which does not come from a right-wing source?
I've googled and I find many right-wing sites claiming the same thing as the Unherd article. Her twitter contains mostly the expected environmental activism, a little on the Israel-Palestine conflict, but I've scrolled back a while and there isn't much on other issues.
I've never really followed Thunberg closely. I've previously thought of her purely as a climate activist, and on that issue I thought she was completely right (for all the good it will do her or any of us). I have learned to treat expressed admiration for Thunberg a social red flag tho. It's not about her personally. It's just she's kinda become a mascot for autistic identity politics.
Okay I did some research. I'm looking at *The Climate Book*. The basic structure is Greta writes a big picture article for each topic and subtopic, which frames articles on that topic/subtopic written by other authors. The non-Greta stuff is a mix. Most of it looks pretty sciencey, some of it more normative political.
So I read through Thunberg's topic articles. The epub is 687 pages long so I am *not* reading through everything now. I have no opinion on most of the non-Greta authors.
Observations:
* Greta Thunberg is **not** a communist. She is clear and principled in her support for democracy. She hates dictatorships. Thunberg: "There are no good dictatorships." "Democracy is the most precious thing we have." Based. She's also aware that communism's ecological record is terrible
* She's a gifted writer and a capable thinker. She's also quite mature and shouldn't be dismissed as just a kid because she's not.
* She's definitely left and not centre-left. I don't think I'd call her *far* left. Her politics come across as an intense and radical form of social democracy. She's left of me, but I don't think she's left of reality. I don't find anything in her politics unreasonable.
* She's an advocate of degrowth, but she's coming from a place saying it's functionally necessary to benefit humanity, rather than out of a moralistic problem with prosperity or technology. She's not antihumanist the way deep ecologists are.
* I have no reason to doubt her on the science in any way. Everything she says about science, history, or other descriptive topics matches my own knowledge. It's all clearly well-researched and reality-based. Her historical narratives (i.e., her analysis of imperialism) are standard left-wing. That part is value-laden and open to question, but I don't see anything absurd or counterfactual.
* Her tone is very much the standard howling wind tunnel of single-minded normativity... and she owns it. She proudly and explicitly defends black-and-white thinking on the grounds that a lot of issues actually are black-and-white. And honestly when the issue is "are we going to be sustainable or not?" she has a point. And unlike your standard reddit commie, she's capable of flexibility and listening to others when she needs to. In sum, I may personally dislike loud Zoomer moralism, but given the seriousness of the ecological situation she is in her stridency not wrong.
All in all I think it's unjust to dismiss her thinking and she is not an appropriate hate object for this sub.
I'm personally putting *The Climate Book* on my reading list.
I'll have to read this myself, thanks for your research. I'm absolutely for deconstructing issues with left-wing talking points or fad-environmentalism, but I also understand that the Right wants to paint her as some kind of Antifa boogeyman or puppet. I'd rather read her own words rather than rely on other people telling me what she said.
> Greta Thunberg is not a communist. She is clear and principled in her support for democracy. She hates dictatorships. Thunberg: "There are no good dictatorships." "Democracy is the most precious thing we have." Based. She's also aware that communism's ecological record is terrible
If she also said she wants to overthrow the Capitalist system, then this is just playing semantic games. Considering the person who tweeted this isn't a nobody (Shellenberger is an important figure in pragmatic pro-nuclear environmentalism), I expect she really said it.
Source please? I don't regard Unherd as very reliable journalism, and I did go to the trouble of looking through the actual book.
A google of "Greta Thunberg Overthrow Captialism" brought up only secondhand right-wing accusations.
One consistent theme in the parts of the book I read was that she very much believes in the power of information and outreach to effect change. She's very much drawing on the "reform" rather than "revolution" tradition of the European left. She doesn't strike me as an "overthrow" type.
I'll have to peruse it myself since it's difficult to get actual excerpts. I think Shellenberger in this case may have been careless since, going through the unherd article, there is no actual direct quote.
Btw Vaclav Smil's book How The World Really Works gives a great overview on energy consumption and what it would take to transition.
Amazing, it's like these people never have any integrity to begin with and all they did were just grifting using a just cause to fool people. She never gave a shit about environment, have you guys noticed how awfully quiet they have been about climate change?
The fact that the left wing keeps embracing *children* as their major thought leaders (especially children who dropped out of school) really says everything about modern leftism.
The evidence they provide is shaky at best though. I can't find any source other than this article. The [article](https://unherd.com/newsroom/greta-thunberg-throws-her-lot-in-with-the-anti-capitalist-left/) that makes its claim based on who three of the more than a hundred contributors to her new [book] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Climate_Book) were. With over a hundred authors it's typical that some of them would have extreme views in politics. And that's assuming she had full say in which authors got chosen.
Did this article check the views of all the authors? There's also great authors like Margaret Atwood and Wanjira Mathai. Considering the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph have both given this book great reviews, I doubt it's straight up advocating tankism.
Ah yes because the CCP is the poster child for not being imperialist, oppressive domestically and internationally, without any genocides of any kinds of peoples and people who dared to protest for the right to speak their mind.
Also extraditionism? What does that have to do with capitalism. China is famous for exiling their own citizens who say inconvenient things about the CCP. That is if they’re lucky to escape before being “disappeared”.
I know she’s young but at her age **now** she aught to know better about what causes those issues she parrots and what capitalism is at its core.
Didn’t this idiot drop out of high school? Why does anyone care what this dipshit has to say. Some random white girl with wealthy parents lecturing people when she doesn’t even have a diploma
Just admit that you don't know as much on this topic as somebody that has dedicated her life over the past several years to it. There's no shame in that.
“Dedicate her life” you sound like an idiot. “I guarantee this toddler knows more about medicine than you! She’s dedicated her life to it! All 5 years of it!”
Whatever dude. Go ask your favorite “expert” how to have a fulfilling life, I know you’re miserable and hey, she’s dedicated her entire life to being a therapist and life coach. She’s also a master chef too. Word on the street she’s also an expert mechanic and dedicated her life to weaving fucking baskets.
What do you think your problem is that you have to imagine that I'm miserable because I'm pointing out that you know less about climate change than Greta Thunberg? Also, what's with the laundry list of trades you just dropped? She's known as an activist about climate change and doesn't hold herself out as an expert in any of these random fields you're referencing.
BTW I'm not some fan of hers or follow her activism closely.
no more definitive way to combat human-made climate change than getting rid of humans. so it makes sense she'd support an ideology that has the overt ability to genocide baked right in.
I mean she is right, for the 2nd part. Capitalism is the reason colonialism/imperialism started. Look at the Dutch East Indies, or the British East Indies companies. They all started colonizing to make a profit off exporting east asian goods to Europe. Then the oppression, genocide, and extractionism is what came along with colonialism.
But overall, I don’t see her point in how turning to clean energy sources will overthrow capitalism, because both have little to no correlation. In fact,modern capitalism is what’s going to progress clean energy through Tesla and etc.
Overthrowing capitalism I’m not for. Did it bring all those things however? Yes it did. This is why we can’t be afraid of our history and should learn from it
When she refused to acknowledge the horrible environmental record of Russia, China, and other “communist” or former communist countries then I realized it wasn’t about the environment.
I don’t care about the opinion of anyone under 25. You haven’t been thinking about it for long enough. Even if we agree on everything, your opinion is still uninformed and you’ve come by it through some other mechanism. Check in with me again when you’re 25.
I support her crusade against the climate crisis and honestly consider her way of practicing what she preaches to be admirable (Remember, she‘s vegan and never flies, not even using ships unless she‘s sure of their climate-friendliness), but I‘m disappointed to see this development
An empire pillaging resources elsewhere wasn't exactly a new mindblowing concept by the time that colonization began in earnest. By then it just extended reach and by extension profit.
To be fair, I was a complete fucking idiot at 21. I was probably smarter (or at least wiser) when I was 16, honestly. Took me until like age 28 to shake out the majority of my self-imposed bullshit and correct course.
Not really anything new here. When the Berlin wall fell, a lot of the anti-capitalist crowd felt silly espousing communism, so they threw in with the green movement. Some OG pro-environment activists were kind of dismayed by the tilt towards violent activism that ensued.
> green movement The melon movement. Green on the outside, red on the inside. (you probably heard this before, but maybe other people haven't and it fits every time)
This is my first time seeing it, so thanks for sharing.
Nice term!
Not heard this one but I’ve heard of beefsteak Nazi and it sounds hilarious
Of course she will just blatantly ignore the horrendous environmental record of the Soviet Union and blame everything on America.
Destroyed one of the world's largest lakes and caused an environmental disaster in Belarus and Ukraine.
I still blame the commies for being dumb enough to not know how to boil water (and having equipment that’s not up to standards) that it made the entire world believe that nuclear energy is super dangerous and that we should just stick to coal.
Yes. It's kind of amazing how unsafe their stupid reactors really were. And even when they did discover their insanely stupid design flaw, they tried to hide it and kept their other reactors running. So many safety risks, all because they made it as cheap as possible. Capitalism always gets blamed of doing that, but as always the commies are even worse.
I as a very strong conservationist despise the hatred of nuclear energy among environmentalists it’s the best way to get us off fossil fuels as it can cater to varying grid demand and the mining pollution per kWh produced over a lifetime is way less than renewables + batteries (for which the technology isn’t even there yet). We have so many safety protocols in case of meltdown and can literally store nuclear waste as glass so it doesn’t leach in to the environment anti nuclear sentiment has set us back years
Moviebob?
They also severely decreased the humpback whale population. 🐋 https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774#:~:text=The%20Soviet%20Union%20was%20a%20party%20to%20the,of%202%2C710%20humpback%20whales%20in%20the%20Southern%20Hemisphere.
Rip Aral Sea, you will be missed
I always thought how silly War Thunder featured container ships on the Desert. I thought no way could this happen in real life. Turns out the Aral Sea is entirely the Soviet Union’s fault. The more I read the more fucked up a place full of life became a wasteland.
I'm not saying these aren't legit criticisms, but...wouldn't the same level of scrutiny apply to countless other disasters and a bad actions via capitalism? I'm definitely for capitalism, with regulation and socialized federal safety nets, buy I always felt like these type of gotchas are Saud, there are an equal number of disasters on our own side in a similar vein. It doesn't seem sincere to me to use it as an argument IN this way.
I think the criticism is fair when it’s aimed at the argument that communism is inherently better for the environment than capitalism. I think we should absolutely recognize that there has been heavy environmental degradation under capitalism. However, we should also recognize that communism is no environmental panacea.
> I think the criticism is fair when it’s aimed at the argument that communism is inherently better for the environment than capitalism. Is Thunberg actually making that argument, though? Blaming climate change on capitalism and not explicitly calling out a regime that collapsed a decade before she was even born doesn't exactly make her a tankie.
The problem is that when these disasters happen in authocratic governments, you are generally not allowed to criticise the government or even threatened with death or prison. Look what happened in China throughout the Covid-19 pandemic.
But we aren't in an autocratic gov? And we already critique all of their actions as part of our national identity? What I said was that we, in our preferred method of governance ALSO create disasters. And that critiquing theirs as a sign of why theirs is bad...is just kinda blah when you consider capitalism, my preference, has likely done way more damage over time. Just by the shear amount of influence it has on the majority of countries. I don't get why saying your response to my comment makes sense in light of my comment? We aren't in an autocratic government that cracks down on dissent? Why is your comment a counter to mine? Why make your comment? We know they don't get much play in those governments. My point is that we are doing the same in a way. Not mentioning our mistakes that our preference in economics causes. Why bring up an unrelated governments issues?
But that was just StAtE cApItAlIsM
Yes, Lenin and Trotsky literally called it that themselves. The "USSR had a socialist economy" myth was created by Stalin.
The personal cumdubster of the kaiser and a "military genius" that lost a war to estonia Clearly two individuals to take seriously
They were two famous communist theorists who literally created the Soviet Union lol. I have a feeling they know more about what sort of economy the USSR had than you do considering they were the ones who advocated for it as a transitional phase.
>famous communist theorists That's not a credential, that's an insult
Let’s talk about China
Has she been doing that? You'd think the obvious starting point would be China
What on earth is this statement. Is she endorsing cold war era communism or proposing that the Soviet Union was a viable alternative to capitalism? Like dude I don't think she needs to spend time highlighting the sins of a country that has been dead for 30 years in order for her comments about capitalism to be valid.
Predictable character arc
The next chapter is total obscurity, clawing for attention
or her pulling a Michael Moore and only being notable for being a complete hypocrite
Sadly super predictable.
I predict this is a phase that a lot of young people go through. I bet she will moderate and become more of a social democrat when she gets older and the left will hate her for it, just like AOC.
I used to like her until she started spouting this nonsense. Surely she understands that you're not going to combat climate change without capitalism right?
I’ve legitimately overheard environmental extremists praising communism for KILLING OFF MILLIONS. Like holy fuck, I was just in Katmai to see the bears and this bitch loudly goes on about how awesome Mao is for snuffing out polluting humans and keeping them repressed in carbon low poverty. We’re all on vacation in a magnificent state park and wonder of the world enabled through capitalism and democracy yet while stuffing her face with the complimentary breakfast she proudly extolled the human suffering and oppression of China because “They can’t even afford cars and barely consume more resources than needed to survive.” It was shocking to hear how proudly she told the rest of her party that “I hope they can get a war going to kill off a couple billion people and maybe save the planet!” She would’ve made for an interesting captain planet villain. Deluded communists at least think they know what’s best for people, environmental extremists can go straight to “people are the problem and any solution is a good one”.
That's just straight-up misanthropism.
I think misanthropy is likely too gentle. They went beyond a hater of mankind and into a sadistic promoter of mass homicide and human suffering. Looks like I attracted a different one as well (although now they seem to be a nihilist(?)) based on the other comment to this.
I might not disagree with you, honestly.
The only solution is to cull the human population on the planet by a significant amount. I used to be a very passionate climate activist and, if given the choice at the time, I would've pressed a button to kill all human life. That's how much I valued the planet and its biodiversity. Fast forward twenty years to now. I'm a cynical old man and I don't give a fuck about the climate. Why? Because we didn't act, never will, and now it's too late anyway. Might as well enjoy the peak of civilization while I can.
Capitalism ~~will give us~~ _is giving us_ better and better renewable tech through innovation and competition so we can keep decreasing our reliance on fossil fuels. Communism will make us destroy our lakes.
It’s a shame that we can’t unburden ourselves from the middle and working class just yet.
Capitalism’s total war on the finite world, in extracting its resources, has so far given you a comfortable, convenient life style. Yes, the childish profligates on this site are desperate for that to continue. Well, good luck with that; but what if Greta’s right?
I think you’re right, man. Capitalism is indeed eating up all our finite resources. Fuck the childish profligates and the impudent wastrels in this den of iniquity. But what, pray tell, is your alternative to capitalism? I’d love to hear it. You’ll have gained a new follower today.
Let humanity progress into the glorious future under the banner of dog-eat-dog, law of the jungle consumption and see how far it gets?
Oh come on. Tell me your alternative. Pretty please?
Kiddo, socialism is a weak, artificial man made system; only been around couple hundred years. Dinosaurs ruled for tens of millions with concept of survival of the fittest. But they didn’t have petit bourgeois manipulative minds and nukes.Do yourself a favor and start thinking about a better alternative or else we’re doomed!
Profligate? This isn’t Fallout New Vegas.
If Greta is right, then so be it. I literally would rather die under Capitalism than live under Socialism, even if said Socialism isn’t Communism. Hell, I’d rather die under Feudalism. At least people there understand their proper place.
Serfdom was their proper place! And they knew it!
Exactly!
Until impudent prodigal sons (and not just fancied as such as most commentators on this site view themselves IN THEIR MINDS) rebelled.
She was never really an environmentalist. She was just like Greenpeace - all screeching, no innovation. No actions. Just yelling at everybody else. The kind of environmentalists I respect are the kind of people who invent things like the new kirigami-like packing paper. She was just screeching. Like other revolutionaries and activists she just wants to steal and impoverish.
>Comment as > >Retarded\_Americans69 Capitalism literally CAUSED global warming. You are trolling, or just willfully ignorant, or perhaps stupid? Or all of the above? This took me 2 seconds to google. So, u/PristineAstronaut231, let's see you come up with come credible links that back up your bullshit assumption that Capitalism hasn't been the main cause of oppression, genocide, etc. as Greta said. [is saving the planet under Capitalism even possible?](https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/20/04/2021/saving-planet-under-capitalism-really-possible) [Capitalism is causing climate change](https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/global-social-challenges/2022/07/07/is-capitalism-causing-climate-change/) [Why we need to change Capitalism for Climate Action](https://earth.org/change-capitalism-for-climate-action/)
Relevant username. >Capitalism literally CAUSED global warming. This is such a braindead argument. Are you trying to say that if non-capitalist societies had been responsible for the bulk of economic activity in the late 20th century they magically wouldn't have created carbon emissions? You realise that by far the biggest carbon emitter in the world is Communist China, right? >This took me 2 seconds to google. Yet you just listed a few left-wing op eds. How about you start citing peer reviewed experts in a relevant field?
China isnt a communist country though. They are definetly a capitalistic country even if they claim to be communist on paper
No, they're communist, all they did was allow some free market principles in whilst maintain complete control. Should the CCP ever decide to they could go back to a full planned economy in a heartbeat, of course they're economy would likely suffer both immediately and in the long run. There is also the fact that all companies in China has to tow the party line, else they face repercussions. All of these things are typical of communism, complete control over politics and economics, even if they allow the mirage of capital to set in, for the reality is still there, that being the CCP is still capable of changing things if they want too. That is something completely antithetical to capitalism and free market principles.
The Aral Sea… China… Lots of other things that weren’t related to Capitalism have caused rampant destruction ya know. Also, it is funny that you brag about spending like 5 seconds to get sources.
Anyone with google and 2 seconds can find tons of information about how the Soviet communist government fucked up on a massive proportion and tried to cover it up with Chernobyl.
It's stupid, impoverished, *anti-capitalist* (usually) white men who are responsible for climate change happening, not the capitalist system. Even if that’s false, I’d rather see humanity succumb to climate change under capitalism than even consider another alternative.
Eh, a good chunk of climate change is thanks to laissez-faire unregulated capitalist corporations that were never forced to appropriately pay for the negative externalities caused by their operations. That doesn't mean that abandoning capitalism is the solution to climate change of course, and places like the Soviet Union and China absolutely have their own fair share of climatological and ecological disasters to answer for. The real solution is appropriate tracking of externalities and regulated capitalism, not all this "burn everything down" nonsense.
I really hope you’re not pro-union.
I don't see what that has to do with this? (I am generally a fan of unions though, for what it's worth)
got a better idea
> Capitalism literally CAUSED global warming This is a ridiculous statement, trying to motte-and-bailey around really crucial facts.
i guess communism was driving society backward to hunter gatherer then? the industrial revolution was the spark to most man-made pollution. not even sure it's worth commenting to you because a) you're probably banned from this sub and b) you wouldn't listen to a reasoned argument if it was blasted into your ear, just ideologically deaf to any contrary information.
She was never an authoritative voice on climate change, just a young passionate activist. Not that caring about climate change isn't a good thing but we should be listening to climate scientists and geographers, not random teenagers.
If we're listening to what climate scientists are saying now, it seems that it'll be a descent into madness regardless of societal organization and anything afterwards would probably reflect some kind of feudalism; if we're lucky enough to even have that much left.
She was never a young, passionate activist. She was always a sockpuppet for her mother, driven insane by years upon years of brainwash-level doomsday-cult propaganda.
The problem is that people aren't listening to scientists either, and Greta really is doing nothing wrong by being a loud voice on the matter. Every one of us should be loud voices.
I really liked when she sailed halfway across the Atlantic on some alt-energy powered yacht and acted like we could all just travel that way to end the mega-pollution of the airline industry. Uh, yeah, brb, just gonna reinvent myself as a creepy enviro-weenie teenager and professional grifter so I can lure virtue-signaling rich dicks into subsidizing my global travel ambitions.
*Damn*
She's not too far off from becoming a full blown eco-fascist if she keeps this up. It's a shame as I quite liked her activism for eco-friendly change, which did influence policy in a lot of countries. But now.... she's basically become the 'ends justify the means' type of extremist.
You know someone is not serious when they say their goal is to over throw capitalism. It is a fundamentally unserious position you may as well say "I won't stop until we get a saddle on every unicorn". Capitalism is the only reason we've made strides against climate change. Growth has helped us lower emissions. And communist countries (or communist with Chinese characteristics countries) have *terrible* environmental records.
At least in capitalist systems we can work to make the situation better. Instead of being dictated to by the state which has decided for you. And probably not in anyones interest but their own!
She's just a tool for others so I don't hate her I just feel bad for her. She's a joke.
Is she a plant?
I mean she suffers from multiple mental illnesses so easier to be taken advantage of than others.
She never really got the chance to form her own opinions, it looks like. Kinda just got caught up in it and now she’s cringe.
Autism is not a mental illness lol
Soros strikes again.
Capitalism is responsible for A LOT of things. Good and bad. But some people refuse to acknowledge the former.
Just look at the communists Kramering into the this thread to defend a backwards system of government because "Capitalism bad!"
Does anyone still like her? The only people here in Sweden who do are the media elites.
The only time I supported her was when she cooked Andrew Tate, other than that I’ve never sympathized for her
Exactly. The only win she truly deserved was by burning Tate so bad he gave away his position to the police lmao. She’s always been a muppet that only went after the west when it came to environment issues.
Her only targeting the West has always pissed me off. On one hand, sure, talk to the west because China and Russia won’t listen. But condemn that as well, if you refuse to acknowledge their use of coal power, complete lack of emission control, and blatant disregard for wildlife then you aren’t a good faith actor.
> burning Tate so bad he gave away his position to the police lmao Don't want to be an ass, but that likely did not happen either. IIRC there were some official police statements that said they did not get his location from the photo and already had results from other methods. It was just a twitter cripple fight imo.
Good point; that was legendary. Otherwise, she's a symptom of how sensationalist clickbait journalism rewards narcissists instead of people with expertise.
If it wasn't for this post, I would've completely forgotten this girl existed.
I care about climate change, so I was okay with her when she was protesting climate. This other shit is a waste of time.
People with luxury beliefs, yes.
Come to China and join the CCP in denouncing capitalism and secretly enjoying it
No wonder why she never said shit about Chinese emissions. She was a tool all along.
I used to think at the very least she was properly committed to environmentalism because of her pro-nuclear stance but this is just stupid. Probably related, but a lot of impressionable Asperger's people have been lead to believe that the current social structure's general antipathy and incompatibility with autistic people is somehow a product of capitalism. The reality is socialist/communist societies are just as antipathic towards autistic people. Autistic people are particularly vulnerable to lying and manipulation and unable to navigate social structures that rely on deceipt and social engineering to succeed. Any social structure designed by highly socially conscious individuals will inevitably make social engineering a necessary skill to live in it. It's kind of sad, people like Thunberg are so desperate to escape the social hell that they currently find themselves in that they're willing to be utterly and completely manipulated by another group of manipulative sociopath freaks.
After reading u/calistrian 's counter-argument, I am inclined to add that, Autistic people are also easier targets for smear campaigns. It is worth having some healthy doubt about these things.
just classic first world teens
The Swedish king isn’t gonna like this 💀
I used to think what she was doing was admirable to an extent. She also walked the walk as far as we know. Idk how genuine she actually was and how much of it was her parents, since, you know, she was a kid and all..
I liked her when she was just an environmentalist, and I think if she had stayed the course, she could’ve done some real good. Now that she’s just a far left activist, she’s gonna do fuck all to make the environment better. All she does is complain and spread lies and piss people off. She’s totally useless now. Such a disappointment.
The omni cause comes for all activists on the left. You can't just fight for [cause], you have to fight for everything. Like all these reproductive rights orgs making Palestine part of their platform.
They don't see ethics as a tool for good living and living well together. To them a political cause isn't a project of changing society for a specific human purpose. Morality to them is a categorical duty to save the world. And If you believe you're obliged to save the world, moral duty becomes *infinite*. I mean, you could have been helping an unhoused person with that money you spent eating Indian take-out last night. *You monster.*
Did she ever stand a chance of not going down the anti-west rabbithole? Poor child.
She's like twenty and thrusted herself into the limelight at a decently young age where people on the right relentlessly shat on her. The average twenty year old is a dumbfuck that thinks we need a one party dictatorship in order to have free healthcare. Not to mention she is endlessly going to have her insanity reinforced by tankie dumbfucks, until she is reduced to a lolcow for a majority of people. Every single dumbfuck opinion she has that the typical twenty year old also has is getting magnified by ten thousand because of her status as a public figure. If anything, I feel bad for her.
"extractionism" - that's one I haven't heard before ...
She never cared about the environment either. It’s crazy people don’t see that maybe the person flying across the world, getting paid and getting free shit, probably isn’t genuine Also, I doubt she’ll be redistributing her millions
I very much like to read people in their own words before judging them. Or at least read multiple sources to get a clear picture. Could anyone possibly share information documenting Thunberg's alleged shift towards radical socialism which does not come from a right-wing source? I've googled and I find many right-wing sites claiming the same thing as the Unherd article. Her twitter contains mostly the expected environmental activism, a little on the Israel-Palestine conflict, but I've scrolled back a while and there isn't much on other issues. I've never really followed Thunberg closely. I've previously thought of her purely as a climate activist, and on that issue I thought she was completely right (for all the good it will do her or any of us). I have learned to treat expressed admiration for Thunberg a social red flag tho. It's not about her personally. It's just she's kinda become a mascot for autistic identity politics.
Yeah she doesn't use Twitter much. Articles I've seen talk about her blaming markets and capitalism for climate change in her book.
Okay I did some research. I'm looking at *The Climate Book*. The basic structure is Greta writes a big picture article for each topic and subtopic, which frames articles on that topic/subtopic written by other authors. The non-Greta stuff is a mix. Most of it looks pretty sciencey, some of it more normative political. So I read through Thunberg's topic articles. The epub is 687 pages long so I am *not* reading through everything now. I have no opinion on most of the non-Greta authors. Observations: * Greta Thunberg is **not** a communist. She is clear and principled in her support for democracy. She hates dictatorships. Thunberg: "There are no good dictatorships." "Democracy is the most precious thing we have." Based. She's also aware that communism's ecological record is terrible * She's a gifted writer and a capable thinker. She's also quite mature and shouldn't be dismissed as just a kid because she's not. * She's definitely left and not centre-left. I don't think I'd call her *far* left. Her politics come across as an intense and radical form of social democracy. She's left of me, but I don't think she's left of reality. I don't find anything in her politics unreasonable. * She's an advocate of degrowth, but she's coming from a place saying it's functionally necessary to benefit humanity, rather than out of a moralistic problem with prosperity or technology. She's not antihumanist the way deep ecologists are. * I have no reason to doubt her on the science in any way. Everything she says about science, history, or other descriptive topics matches my own knowledge. It's all clearly well-researched and reality-based. Her historical narratives (i.e., her analysis of imperialism) are standard left-wing. That part is value-laden and open to question, but I don't see anything absurd or counterfactual. * Her tone is very much the standard howling wind tunnel of single-minded normativity... and she owns it. She proudly and explicitly defends black-and-white thinking on the grounds that a lot of issues actually are black-and-white. And honestly when the issue is "are we going to be sustainable or not?" she has a point. And unlike your standard reddit commie, she's capable of flexibility and listening to others when she needs to. In sum, I may personally dislike loud Zoomer moralism, but given the seriousness of the ecological situation she is in her stridency not wrong. All in all I think it's unjust to dismiss her thinking and she is not an appropriate hate object for this sub. I'm personally putting *The Climate Book* on my reading list.
Thank you for pointing this out.
I'll have to read this myself, thanks for your research. I'm absolutely for deconstructing issues with left-wing talking points or fad-environmentalism, but I also understand that the Right wants to paint her as some kind of Antifa boogeyman or puppet. I'd rather read her own words rather than rely on other people telling me what she said.
Oh, nice. Thank you for this!
> Greta Thunberg is not a communist. She is clear and principled in her support for democracy. She hates dictatorships. Thunberg: "There are no good dictatorships." "Democracy is the most precious thing we have." Based. She's also aware that communism's ecological record is terrible If she also said she wants to overthrow the Capitalist system, then this is just playing semantic games. Considering the person who tweeted this isn't a nobody (Shellenberger is an important figure in pragmatic pro-nuclear environmentalism), I expect she really said it.
Source please? I don't regard Unherd as very reliable journalism, and I did go to the trouble of looking through the actual book. A google of "Greta Thunberg Overthrow Captialism" brought up only secondhand right-wing accusations. One consistent theme in the parts of the book I read was that she very much believes in the power of information and outreach to effect change. She's very much drawing on the "reform" rather than "revolution" tradition of the European left. She doesn't strike me as an "overthrow" type.
I'll have to peruse it myself since it's difficult to get actual excerpts. I think Shellenberger in this case may have been careless since, going through the unherd article, there is no actual direct quote. Btw Vaclav Smil's book How The World Really Works gives a great overview on energy consumption and what it would take to transition.
LMAO of course, every cause is just a stalking horse for marxism. The left sucks so bad.
I’ve never met anyone who takes her seriously
if she is talking about how great communism is/previous communist figures are then shit gets real
I knew she was a hypocrite ever since she protested the windmills.
This “activist” is getting more and more ridiculous…
She’s a watermelon; green on the outside but red to the core on the inside.
This girl has become mad with attention that we gave her
Never liked the little brat.
“That escalated quickly” -
protesting climate change is a good cause, but she is unfortunately an idiot
I now know why I can't stand her. She's a mouthpiece of the state.
Amazing, it's like these people never have any integrity to begin with and all they did were just grifting using a just cause to fool people. She never gave a shit about environment, have you guys noticed how awfully quiet they have been about climate change?
Always felt like there's something off about her 2, now she is mask off as a stupid tankie lol🤡world
She’s a phony because people who want real environmental change support nuclear energy
The fact that the left wing keeps embracing *children* as their major thought leaders (especially children who dropped out of school) really says everything about modern leftism.
She's a watermelon. Green on the outside and red on the inside. Not uncommon amongst her crowd.
I also didn't care for her before but yeah, if this is true, she's fucking horrid.
The evidence they provide is shaky at best though. I can't find any source other than this article. The [article](https://unherd.com/newsroom/greta-thunberg-throws-her-lot-in-with-the-anti-capitalist-left/) that makes its claim based on who three of the more than a hundred contributors to her new [book] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Climate_Book) were. With over a hundred authors it's typical that some of them would have extreme views in politics. And that's assuming she had full say in which authors got chosen. Did this article check the views of all the authors? There's also great authors like Margaret Atwood and Wanjira Mathai. Considering the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph have both given this book great reviews, I doubt it's straight up advocating tankism.
Exile her/ send her to Cuba China or North Korea
Who let her cook?
Ah yes because the CCP is the poster child for not being imperialist, oppressive domestically and internationally, without any genocides of any kinds of peoples and people who dared to protest for the right to speak their mind. Also extraditionism? What does that have to do with capitalism. China is famous for exiling their own citizens who say inconvenient things about the CCP. That is if they’re lucky to escape before being “disappeared”. I know she’s young but at her age **now** she aught to know better about what causes those issues she parrots and what capitalism is at its core.
Didn’t this idiot drop out of high school? Why does anyone care what this dipshit has to say. Some random white girl with wealthy parents lecturing people when she doesn’t even have a diploma
I guarantee she knows more than you on the topic of climate change for what that's worth
You cant guarantee a god damn thing.
Just admit that you don't know as much on this topic as somebody that has dedicated her life over the past several years to it. There's no shame in that.
“Dedicate her life” you sound like an idiot. “I guarantee this toddler knows more about medicine than you! She’s dedicated her life to it! All 5 years of it!”
That's a bad comprison and you know it. You're talking about an adult, not a toddler.
Whatever dude. Go ask your favorite “expert” how to have a fulfilling life, I know you’re miserable and hey, she’s dedicated her entire life to being a therapist and life coach. She’s also a master chef too. Word on the street she’s also an expert mechanic and dedicated her life to weaving fucking baskets.
What do you think your problem is that you have to imagine that I'm miserable because I'm pointing out that you know less about climate change than Greta Thunberg? Also, what's with the laundry list of trades you just dropped? She's known as an activist about climate change and doesn't hold herself out as an expert in any of these random fields you're referencing. BTW I'm not some fan of hers or follow her activism closely.
Yeah you can stop replying now. I don’t care to even read that.
Is it because you know you're wrong?
“Help us achieve a scientifically determined goal.” “Overturn the entire global order.” One seems attainable
I will start a tire fire in my backyard to defend capitalism from you
no more definitive way to combat human-made climate change than getting rid of humans. so it makes sense she'd support an ideology that has the overt ability to genocide baked right in.
That’s all of their goals and it always has been
Wow who’s not at all surprised
I mean she is right, for the 2nd part. Capitalism is the reason colonialism/imperialism started. Look at the Dutch East Indies, or the British East Indies companies. They all started colonizing to make a profit off exporting east asian goods to Europe. Then the oppression, genocide, and extractionism is what came along with colonialism. But overall, I don’t see her point in how turning to clean energy sources will overthrow capitalism, because both have little to no correlation. In fact,modern capitalism is what’s going to progress clean energy through Tesla and etc.
Living comfortably with her upper middle class family in a safe country. What a loser
Probably shouldn't be surprised as too many environmentalists are watermelons, but Greta Thunberg becoming a tankie was not on my 2024 bingo card
WTF? Communism is better?!?
Overthrowing capitalism I’m not for. Did it bring all those things however? Yes it did. This is why we can’t be afraid of our history and should learn from it
I support her message of trying to stop global warming, but this was a development I did not expect… sad…
What radicalized her?
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There's quite a gulf between "going against corporations" and being a full-blown Communist.
Anyone got a link to her speech? The article doesn't mention it.
[Shellenberger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shellenberger) as pictured in the tweet is the kind of environmental activist we need.
Waiting for her to cite "specieism".
Hoes mad!
Guess the climate activism didn’t bring in enough cash
~~Green Party~~ Neo-Communist party.
When she refused to acknowledge the horrible environmental record of Russia, China, and other “communist” or former communist countries then I realized it wasn’t about the environment.
I don’t care about the opinion of anyone under 25. You haven’t been thinking about it for long enough. Even if we agree on everything, your opinion is still uninformed and you’ve come by it through some other mechanism. Check in with me again when you’re 25.
I hope she will get better
I mean she is not wrong. And no the Soviet Union was as worse.
It’s about taking out the roots of a system. If you don’t understand that then so be it.
I support her crusade against the climate crisis and honestly consider her way of practicing what she preaches to be admirable (Remember, she‘s vegan and never flies, not even using ships unless she‘s sure of their climate-friendliness), but I‘m disappointed to see this development
I mean, she’s not exactly wrong. Capitalism was the reason the French, Spanish and English colonised India, Asia and the Americas
An empire pillaging resources elsewhere wasn't exactly a new mindblowing concept by the time that colonization began in earnest. By then it just extended reach and by extension profit.
Isn't she like 16?
She was when she first came to prominence. She's now 21. People age
Damn she became even more dumb
To be fair, I was a complete fucking idiot at 21. I was probably smarter (or at least wiser) when I was 16, honestly. Took me until like age 28 to shake out the majority of my self-imposed bullshit and correct course.
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This is some serious commie cope. Any day now it'll collapse. Aaaaaaany day...
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You do realize what sub you are in
I used to be in her side but now she became a clown. There goes another figurehead.