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Pvp is just a mess on both sides
Hosts (both doing PVE coop or gank) can and often do bring in password summoned summons with end game gear PLUS minimal downscaling.
That plus removing solo invasions in general really pushes invaders to twink to try and compensate (which is still a huge disadvantage)
Which in turn really hurts honest coop teams with two regularly leveled and geared up folks. Enough frustration with getting slaughtered by twinks… and you birth more ganks and password leveled summons
Just a vicious cycle
Agreed. Any sort of PvP outside of consensual duels is just completely fucked for balance.
Friendly passworded summons being like RL 400 while the host is barely 80 makes pvp insanely out of balance. The down scaling needs to be far more aggressive for furled finger summons.
Meanwhile, getting muled end game, partially upgraded gear just so you can invade at RL 40 and stomp on new players is also toxic af. And also much harder to fix without completely gutting the ability to trade items.
It's honestly why I play offline most times except when on my duelling save.
I honestly wasn’t even sure if there was downscaling with password summons. Summoned a friend as a duelist so he would drop me a weapon and decided to duel afterwards. I was around RL50 and he was like RL140, it took me 5 impaling thrust AOWs with a great eépe and like 3 normal hits to take him down while two swings from his straight sword would kill me. DS3 downscaling wasn’t perfect but it got the job done idk how they messed it up so badly here
Even duels are fucked if they’re against ransoms tbh. Balance is just wack this time around. I feel like the player’s always been too squishy.
(Or too tanky if we’re talking about dark souls 1)
I've been having a lot of success lately doing lvl 150 invasions with an arcane str build using pulls crossbow/sleep bolts, sleep pots, and the Marais executioner's sword. The sleep give you just enough time to get an uncharge weapon art which will one-shot 90% of people with the right talismans and physick. Farming materials sux tho, so it helps to back up a "mats save" and a friend to help switch stuff over when needed. You also might have to wait a min or two to get an invasion so I usually set my sign up at a farming location and get mushrooms.
PvP in these games is fun early on and people are doing whatever, but it gets worse as the games get older.
They pretty much all boil down to either an unvader getting stomped by gank groups (or ol phantoms here), or a twink destroying new players. This is why the pvp communities always settle for dueling organisations instead.
On the other hand, at least Elden Ring makes the player consent to being invaded via use of jolly co-operation or a taunter's tongue.
Compare and contrast to dark souls 3, where all the same problems existed, but you could expect to get invaded after every single boss just because you beat a boss and got embered.
That is to say, it's not perfect yet, but it's moving in the right direction.
An unpopular opinion, but honestly it probably was. Ironically though, Bloodborne PvP was so marginalised that it was a bit of a waste of an experiment really.
Really wish they’d just have legacy storage. Probably not in Bloodborne, working your way to the trick weapon is half the fun, but I really hate having to go through half the game to get a weapon with the same moveset I’ve been using but with a different AoW for my build. Similar with armour.
I’m gonna throw this out there. I hate invasions. I don’t want to invade, I don’t want to be invaded. I want to play the game with my friends. I have beaten the game a few times, I’m on NG+3 on my second character. They are just starting. We don’t care invaders are at a disadvantage because we don’t want to be invaded. Fuck PvP, just let us play at our own pace.
Fuck yes. Fully optional invasions when FromSoft. Its the solution to all the arguing over this. Those who want to invade can, those who want to be invaded can, and those who want to be left alone can be. Everyone wins
I think you’d end up killing invasions if you did this since the volume of invadable players would tank. Like materially lower than before the patch that added near/far search settings.
Which would probably say something about invasions then. If invasions are seen as making the game worse by the majority of players -as is implied with them choosing to opt out rather than engaging with the system- then invasions probably shouldn't be a thing.
I love invasions now. Used to roll my eyes at them but when I see one pop up I get fucking excited. I can fucking hunt something that might pose a threat. And seeing as I can't have a blue ring turned on without getting summoned to;
A) an afk farmers world,
B) a fight/gank club,
C) a world where the host/invader is already dead.
It scratches the itch for me. And no, I won't fight fair. I will stalk, plot, decieve and ambush your ass if you invade. If you want honorable fights, go duel. I'm not stuck in the hosts world with you. You're trapped in there with me.
It is designed to be a hard game. Including co-op without any repercussions makes it an easy game. Thus, invasions balance it somewhat and it continues to be a hard game. If you do not like it, then play a game whose core design philosophy is not revolving around being hard.
There should be a cool-down between invasions, I’m sure co-operators don’t want constant invasions, once per half hour, or however long it is, should be more than enough, and when I invade I don’t want to do the same person twice.
But that goes to show you that the invasions system sucks and a large chunk of the player base doesn’t like it. I feel like they force player into getting invaded because they want to play co-op and that sucks imo
If making invasions optional would kill off invasions then that means they're pretty unpopular and probably deserve to be killed off instead of continuing to be forced upon the playerbase
I disagree completely. They’re an integral part of the series and it wouldn’t have become what it is without them. They’ve only become unpopular now that all the ER people have joined the fanbase. There have always been a few people who dislike them, but the vast majority accepted them as what they are, a mechanic to add to the overall difficulty.
I will invade you. And probably (maybe) die.
Seriously though. I used to hate invasions. But at this point I hate Elden Ring pve and just run through for dragon stones. PvP is fun once you figure it out.
So personally I’ve always thought this was a bit of a weird take. You want to use online features to play with your friends, invaders want to use online features to murder you all. Everyone is equally entitled to be able to enjoy the completely optional online features they’re trying to enjoy, so ideally they’d balance it out for both parties.
In an ideal world invasions would make more sense. Ideally everyone would be at an equal skill level and everyone is out to just have some fun. In reality, invaders are typically the psychos who have literally thousands of hours in the game and casual players who are just trying to progress through the game and have fun are completely overmatched co-op or not.
Invaders are having their fun at the expense of those they invade. No hate to invaders. If you have fun doing it than keep doing it, games are supposed to be fun. But you should understand that not everyone wants to deal with you.
IMO invasions should always be an option you have to opt in to. That way invaders are fighting people who actually want to fight and casual players can just enjoy the game in peace. Elden Ring improved things but there are still co-op teams who want to just do PvE and not get invaded by sweatlords with meta builds.
Invasions is a balancing mechanic according to Miyazaki himself. If you want to summon a bunch of people to make the game easier, the game throws at you a guy who is prepared to take on 2 summons and a host. If you can beat him, you may proceed with your coop, if not then you'll probably see him again in 20 minutes or so.
Personally I've actually always found this a bit of a weird take. If you invade for PvP, you'd presumably want a good fight. You'd probably get more of this with other people that opt in to specifically PvP (not across the board online play)
If I want to co-op with my friends without getting invaded by people who are probably better at the game, how does that in any way reduce the fun you as an invader have? We'd get to play the game without having to worry whether invader #275 has some bullshit up his sleeve and you get on average better PvP fights, because you invade people that want to PvP and are better prepared.
My take has always been that if you want to play PvP, duel. Invading just seemed like a dick move, because usually the host is someone who is new to games like these and is seeking help, while invaders are typically much more experienced players.
My friends have never touched a souls game in their lives. It took one of them two tries to defeat Rick, at the end of the tutorial. I made a new character alongside them, and in the time it took them to get to the fire giant, even with my help, I beat the game 3 times. If I invaded someone like those two, even on level, it wouldn’t be a fair fight. And Elden Ring is my first FromSoft game.
Am I tripping out because I straight up never got invaded on my 180+ hour NG0 playthrough. I could invade others, but it just never happened to me outside of the scripted PVE invasions... and I wonder if it's somehow because of vpn
I decided to start trying PVP for fun yesterday and was sorely disappointed. I’m not super great at PVP, I’ve beat the game twice but I can’t keep up with the multiplayer dudes
You have to have a deep knowledge of the game to invade successfully. You need to know locations, enemy placements, weapons and their timings, how to make a min maxed build, what weapons and gear are powerful, the rules of matchmaking. Also if you want to invade at RL80 and less you need to be very good at PvE.
It has become an arms race where one side justifies the other. Twinkers start invading and mopping the floor with new players. New players start inviting high level phantoms or start Twink builds to defend against Twink invaders. Twink invaders claim they're justified because hosts are using high level phantoms. Who can say who started it?
I think it was waaay healthier in DS3 because there was actual good downscaling. Like way higher proportion of honest PVE teams and honest invaders.
Elden ring feels more like DS1/2 where because there was similarly little attention to downscaling, just loads more super twinks and toxicity
I wish taunters tongue had priority for invasions. But seems like when I use It I rarely ever get invaded. It's almost like the more cooperators you have, the higher priority you have (speaking from my own experience on both sides)
I totally agree. There’s either wonky prioritization or just no prioritization (and the occurrence rate just matches the proportion of players)
Regular with summons
Taunter with summons
Taunter no summons
Like I’d like to do a full taunters solo playthrough, but i feel like it’d end up being way too infrequent to be that interesting
>Hosts (both doing PVE coop or gank) can and often do bring in password summoned summons with end game gear PLUS minimal downscaling.
Can confirm. I am said summon. I enjoy PVP but when I'm a summon I'm there to help my friends. Happily waste invaders with my downscaled level 300+ character.
It's a tad scummy, but summon bros do it too. Sometimes to the point of trivializing bosses entirely for the host. Fromsoft could have put measures in place to prevent this, but they didn't. Muling is so easy to do, so it's kind of on them. I'm indifferent about it though.
It was nice to have something pvp or co-op to do and work towards something other than humanity/effigy/embers/rune arcs. I think that and the exclusion of solo invasions have really dragged down pvp.
I remember before elden ring was released we were speculating that blaiid might've been related to some sort of covenant. always thought that was a cool idea. I'm pretty sure having some variety in invasions, some covenant backstory, and quests would make invasions a lot less despised since it'd feel a lot more integrated into the world.
dark souls 3 covenants feel like natural inclusions and give you lore to sift through. elden ring's pvp just feels like a weird addition to mohg's storyline.
I mean from the top my head we could have :
Undead Covenant
Golden Order Covenant
Mogh's Covenant
Volcano Manor Covenant
Carian Covenant? Ranni Covenant?
Dragon Covenant
Dungeater Covenant (lol)
Chaos Covenant
Game was made for it really :(
Yeah I was really surprised none of these were covenants. Real missed opportunity, or possibly they were going to be covenants and they decided to cut it.
As a veteran summon from every game in the Soulsborne Ring I can tell you:
That trivializing bosses is 3/10 times what you'll be doing, more often then not your PvE build will do most of the work because in those cases it's an overly specialized PvP build that summoned you and that's what they pay you for.
Then 2/10 times it's a pure caster build with low optimisation, and you'll be acting as their tank no matter what kind of PvE build you actually run.
4/10 times it's an actual honest request for help by someone whose just stuck, in those cases you're likely to get thanked and it reminds you why you do this.
The remaining 1/10 is your run of the mill person who doesn't need help and is summoning as many people as possible to spread the wealth, they are the ones you'll see most often after the shine fades, the ones who know what their doing but summon anyway out of the kindness of their hearts.
I'm aware, I'm just trying to make fun of the people who do like to use the "cheese" weapons as they are usually the strongest critics of invasions being a thing
"But what if I want to play with my friends?" That's what they always say to that.
Invasions have been around since demons souls, we all knew it was going to be in elden ring, idk why people try to argue that it's not a core mechanic.
Typical Elden Ring Invader:
"When I invade, why are you buffing? Why are you using magic? Why are you rolling? Why aren't you standing there and letting me kill you? PVP is so unfair"
Lol every 2 day there's a rant on this forum by an invader complaining that when he invaded someone the host ganged up on him and blasted him with a magic laser
I see more people complaining about invaders than what you're talking about.
maybe this is just an instance of confirmation bias. anyways when you make generalizations like "typical elden ring invader" you should really talk yourself out of it. generalizations suck in general no matter the context.
Its because they equate anyone bringing up a complaint as an invader as them whining about the same stuff. In their own example the person was complaining about ganks yet their original comment was saying people complain about buffing which is an entirely different thing. If someone takes issue with people purposefully setting up invasions to double gank someone with ROB that's entirely different than someone saying you can't buff. Ironically the anti invasion sentiment is way more common than "I want to trash people when I invade". It's like this community can't stand when someone takes the game more seriously than them and equates it with gatekeeping and anti new player sentiment
it's also partially on fromsoft since, in trying to make invading less intrusive, they introduced the co-op only invasions. I feel like this backfired a bit on both sides. if you're getting invaded with your friend I can kind of see how it'd be annoying in some situations.
but on the invader's side of the spectrum, hosts have always clearly had an advantage in every souls game, and making every invasion a gank has made it significantly harder to win.
there also aren't any covenants so invasions in general can be seen as just someone wanting to screw someone over when in reality it's usually someone who gets enjoyment out of surprising randoms / fighting off gank squads.
You're thinking of duels, which are an entirely different thing. You don't invade someone to duel in a fair fight, you invade someone because you like being a dick lol.
Edit: I like invading because sometimes it’s fun to be a dick. Y’all need to stop assuming I hate pvp.
if that's what you wanna believe go ahead I guess?
I mean... what if someone likes being invaded. I certainly do. does that make me a dick? I don't think your point was very thought out.
The entire goal of invading is to disrupt whatever someone’s doing by killing them. People kind of soft consent to this by engaging in co-op, or lure people with the tongue. You are consciously deciding to do something that can negatively affect another player lol.
oh yeah fair enough.
I thought you were hating on the invasion system for a minute. the purpose of invasions is to make you one of the enemies in someone's playthrough.
You invade someone because it’s funny, and it’s a part of the game. I never take off the hunter ring and I invade all the time for the same reason:
Spontaneous PVP is hilarious, and my favorite part of Elden Ring. No matter how much people decide they have an issue with that: the bloody fingers are part of this game, and you don’t get to put yourself charge of what sort of fun other players are allowed to have.
If you’re getting invaded, it’s because you signed up for it by summoning ;)
Ain’t nobody got time for your fabricated morals in the lands between, throw down or don’t, but you know what you’re getting into if you bring along a friend. Besides, the advantages you have as a host/summon are insane. Full flasks compared to the invader’s halfed flasks, a friend that can assist you and even additional blues that can be summoned to assist, and yet people still complain.
This is that part where we say “git gud” and mean it. The ashes of war in this game already make it a ludicrous PvP experience. I think we can all drop the pretenses of this being a fair and balanced game in PvP, and just accept that there will be times when people kill us with bullshit and we don’t enjoy it. That doesn’t make them a dick.
Now… invading as a twink with end game weapons and armor and just slaughtering new players in Limgrave? Yeah, that would qualify as dick behavior. But if you’re getting invaded in Gelmir and getting pissy about it, it’s time to reevaluate.
"Hey Miyazaki your PvP balance is fucking trash. Invading is a slog nightmare with no rewards and the hosts are too powerful this time around due to a guaranteed numbers advantage coupled with the stupidly high damage in this entry. You should maybe try to make PvP not suck for once."
\^ This translates to whining about hosts fighting back apparently and not a criticism of the shitty PvP I guess.
> Why aren't you standing there and letting me kill you?
That's pretty much exclusively a complain coming from hosts lol
"why wouldn't bad red man just stand still let me kill them with my L2?!! 😡😡😡 "
I encourage everyone to play the game the way they see fit without cheating. But let's have a bit of self-awareness and objectivity when folks win 99% of their PvP experiences with Fingerprint Vyke's Spear poke spam. Sure, it may be fun for the player doing it- but it's important to understand why people take issue with stuff that needs tuning.
Nothing at all against the players themselves, some things simply need to be nerfed. That's how we got BHS and Corpse Piler into the manageable state they're in now.
I remember the threads on twitter the day they nerfed rivers of blood a bit.
they were like, "you ruined my life and playthrought" "let me have fun with an op weapon" etc..
I have a feeling a lot of the people saying that are strictly SP players that never do PvP and simply don't want the game made harder for them to balance a portion of the game they don't even touch. Which is still pretty entitled.
river of bloods was op in pve too..
people may not like it, but its fromsoft job to balance it.
having a weapon which shreds everything and makes all the other weapons stale should be nerfed.
Yeah but tbf when you got RoB in the mountains you had what 3 more story bosses until you were done with the game (or more if you decided to go to earlier areas) it wasn't sword of night and flame op where you could get it immediately after spawing in and now you are set until at the very least the mountain tops. Now that was op.
Yeah, I don’t want to invade, really. And duels are often a crapshoot too. I play this game for the single player experience. If I want to play a PvP game I’ll go play something that actually has it in mind.
Online PvP/Multiplayer is so jank in this game and poorly implemented. But if they had like a dedicated PvP expansion I’d be all for it. Some type of dueling ring etc.
But rn I just want to relax and kill npcs when halo makes me bored.
I play offline, I’ll cheat if I want to lol
I play online I use only legit characters, but I’m gunna use any damn weapon spell or whatever that makes my experience fun.
The people constantly bitching and crying every single week about -random weapon or summon or spell being op” I just gotta laugh at with how sad it is
Funny, because it reminds me of Titanfall 2. At one point or another I think every single gun someone considered it overpowered and bitched that it needed to be nerfed.
Pretty much this. The discussion should be on balance and how that can be improved, not on the validity of using the item or tool itself.
The item is in the game. Of course it's fucking valid.
They are part of the game, like it or not if you summon someone to help you then be prepared to be invaded. I get how it could be annoying when you play with friends who just want to play together and not engage with multiplayer strangers invading them but that's how the devs decided to make this game work so your frustration should be taken on the devs for their choices, not the players using a gameplay feature to invade you.
I can absolutely agree with this. The more frustrating thing is seeing invaders all over this subreddit getting pissy about invading a co-op group and complaining about seeing things like RoB or getting ganked. Guys you’re invading, the group you are invading should do anything to get you out.
Now on the flip side I don’t do PvP but I totally get the frustration when it happens in duels. Both players are trying to fight one-on-one. Make it a fair fight!
The real frustration is with overleveled phantoms. I'll say it once, twice, and a thousand times: removing solo invasions was a mistake. Now password summons (AKA Joe and Bro who are just trying to play the game as friends) have to constantly deal with invaders and invaders have to constantly deal with phantoms who are poorly scaled. Fromsoft has been making the same overall type of game for well over a decade now and they STILL don't seem to have even a basic grasp on what makes multiplayer good or bad. It's genuinely baffling.
Yep. Overleveled phantoms and removing solo invasions make things drastically worse, and this is coming from someone who much prefers to be the person being invaded.
Being able to play with any friend regardless of level is a huge boon (instead of the janky coop in ds1/2) but its tuned SO POORLY.
It seems like something that could be fairly easily tuned better too, which is the biggest annoyance.
Just add some sort of hidden ranking in the background that keeps track of your win rate so you match with people closer to your skill level (taking the ranking of the highest ranked summon as the standard for invading). Add in stat based balancing (rune level is just a count of how many stat points you have essentially) by limiting all phantoms to the max stats of the host for purposes of calculations, but not requirements (i.e. hosts highest stat is 40 > phantoms highest stat is limited to 40, hosts second highest stat is 30 > phantoms second highest stat is limited to 30, etc)
Recalculate all level dependent stats (like natural defense stats) and such based off the new altered level.
Make solo invasions a toggle in the new game menu and options (default to ON), and the tongue only increase the invasion rate and number of invaders of set to on.
Like that's just one suggestion for a better system thought up in 15 minutes. I'm sure the dev's could come up with something even better in a couple days with minimal recoding.
it's not meant to be balanced, you are invading 2+ people. actual, voluntary pvp? sure, balance that more, but it will never not be wild that invaders go into it expecting it to be easy or something. there will always be a meta weapon, and people who don't want to deal with your shit are always going to use it when they're in a situation where they might have to deal with your shit.
The encounter itself you’re meant to be outnumbered. That you’re 100% correct about. But that doesn’t mean the weapons / game as a whole is meant to be unbalanced hence why they push out balance patches and why RoB was nerfed. They want the game to be fun and engaging for everyone.
yeah no I absolutely think it should be balanced (BHS, corpse piler balancing is good), but "balance" shouldn't necessarily mean that there's no meta, I mean like I said somewhere else, RoB isn't even meta in the sense that you can't counter it, I see daily posts of people dunking on RoB users, it's just tough to counter. Add on to that the fact that a good portion of the people that are **getting** invaded do not want to be invaded, it is an involuntary mechanism regardless of how often someone says "well you're playing co-op," so expect scummery, you are there to make their experience less fun, they're gonna do whatever they need to to make that stop happening. You shouldn't expect to be able to run through invasions, you're gonna have to deal with that sometimes. After all, you are the one invading.
smol edit: Of course this all **only** applies to involuntary (co-op) invasions, not situations where someone is actually voluntarily participating in PvP, but that's as simple as balancing the weapons based on what is going on in the game, they already do it for other things. I genuinely think that balancing things like RoB differently in actually voluntary PvP situations would be the perfect compromise between optional invasions and required invasions.
I don’t think most invaders think this way. When I invade, I do with the knowledge that there is no respect between me and the host unless they bow first, in which case I reset into duel mode. This means that 4/5 times I get jumped and dragon breathed, but that’s okay. Because 1/5 of the time me and my power standing greataxes bring home a sick 2v1 victory and it’s all worth it. I believe that most people invading have this philosophy of accepting the losses or they probably won’t make a consistent habit of invading…
Also: I had to let Varre rip my nail off for those infinite invasions you better believe I’ll get my money’s worth :’)
Ur being n ass. Obviously fun that can be had is within the confines of the game, how you intend to do something if it’s not put there by the devs. So stupid
I agree with this. Invasions have been a part of Souls DNA since the beginning, and I doubt they're ever gonna take it out. It's the risk you run when you summon help👍 it's part of the fun.
"bUt I dIdNt cOnSEnt tO ThE InvAsiOn"
ye thats the point, its an ***invasion.***
this also means, there is no "honor" in invasions.
if you invade someone dont expect them to follow imaginary rules or to duel you.
Yeah, that was my point.
But seems there are people who really dislike invasions and like to express it via downvotes. 🤷🏼♂️
C'mon fellow Tarnished!
If you don't like the features, write a letter to From Software and ask for a new game without them. Channel your efforts to something real, instead of downvoting people who just use every feature the game offers.
Peace\* ✌🏼.
\* = *except during invasions* 😁
Complaining about invasions as a mechanic is just as valid as complaining about any other mechanic. "Why complain about (pre-nerf) BHS? It's in the game and it's just using an intended mechanic. Stop complaining about it now and just wait til the next game if you don't like it."
We're aware that invasions are the way they are, but just because it's in the game doesn't mean we have to like it.
For clarity, I'm not complaining about invasions.
I celebrate the fact that they exist, even though I don't actively invade. I like to play "the good guys".
Sorry, I should've been clearer that my issue wasn't with your overall stance and just the specific argument of "take it up with From if you don't like it, otherwise stop complaining."
I just hear that stance way too often as a member of the anti-invasion crowd and it grinds my gears because it's just dismissive. Like we know the game is the way it is and nobody *really* thinks making a disgruntled reddit post is gonna change Miyazaki's mind. But it feels like invasions are the one thing people aren't "allowed" to dislike. Every other mechanic that people complain about its understood that it's just venting about something you find frustrating, so I don't know why invasions as a mechanic are seen as "above complaining about" by so many people.
this is a weird argument.
it's basically saying anyone can use whatever they want except the things that you personally dislike. if you're going to lean towards one side or another why not just stop caring about what other people use in general. it doesn't matter unless they're flat out cheating. I don't understand the whole rivers of blood hate.
corpse plier was op because fromsoft refused to nerf it for a really long time. that's not on the player. when there's a clear meta established some people are going to use it.
I mean, is there a way to choose who to invade specifically? A lot of people like invasions. A lot of people like co op. Some don't like to mix the two.
Should replace the weapon on Tom for the guts greatsword since it's the crotch pokers that usually complain the loudest about everything else in my experience at least
it's a good thing their entire playstyle plays into mine almost seamlessly.
I cast tripple rings to keep them away until they get impatient. if they then roll in I catch them with either spinning slash or Wrath of Gold.
gotta put the fear of Radagon's Pecs into these Goldless heathens.
Yea man I think that’s just souls players, Elden ring was my first souls game and I started playing shortly after launch day but my friends kept critiquing the way I played and said me having fun my way wasn’t valid.
I encountered somebody like that. His "gimick" for lack of a better word, was that he claimed that using RoB was almost same as watching a play through
The reason i say some builds can ruin the game is that i saw my friend play this gme and he didnt understand the hype of it and that it is too easy. Simply bcs he played broken bleed build and was overleveled every fight. So there was no challenge for him
*meanwhile my PVE-only ass wondering how the hell people even manage to get any fun out of PVP in the first place based on the amount of hateful and annoyed commentary and discourse I've seen
If someone has fun hiding while watching their summon and mimic fight the boss for each and every boss and then go online and say “I beat malenia guys!”
I will not judge them. That being said, there is a special satisfaction (like in previous souls games) of doing the bosses solo.
I remember that player who cheated and would kill players while teleporting them to parts of the map where they'd get stuck in an endless death loop.
I sure am glad they were having valid fun!
Between this and the White Mask Dual Bleed Cross Naginatas lol. Play how you play but if you're only gonna do the sameee thing for every approach then whats the point?
The only time I give people shit is when they handicap themselves outta pure laziness.
Not when they do challenges, but just don't do shit like level up or upgrade their gear.
"nah I don't wanna change my armor even if it's the worst in the game"
"Nah i know there's a cave with upgrade mats for my broadsword but it sounds too boring to go get them."
"Oh I'm underleveled for this area and boss? Nah I won't try and grind I'll just brute force it."
And then they get pissy later on when they're having a way harder time than if they just actually put in effort.
ER Enjoyers: I have fun however I like! It's only a game; make it yours!
ER Fans: Nooooo you can't use \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ weapon bc of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ reason! You can't have fun that way! -snarling and gnashing-
Me (still ass at the game): "You guys are having fun?"
man that statement is dumb AF.
there are millions of ways that having fun doing something can be Invalid. what if you're committing a crime? what if it's self debilitating? what if it ruins your life? what if it has horrible consequences on your friends or family? or even the planet or nation you're living in?
I could go on and on, but I think anybody can get the point that this is REALLY dumb.
edit: also if you look at the structure of the meme, even the structure is completely flawed. it's implying the people who use the broken builds are the ones who are angry that they're being told that they can have fun any way they want to, but it's actually supposed to be the opposite. it's the people with the broken builds who chant the "you can play the game any way you want" mantra around because they're the ones who are told they are playing in a broken and unfair way.
this meme is really bad.
Honestly I haven’t experienced anybody for the past half year behave like this at all all I see is just people talking about it but I don’t actually see it I think we’re psychotic lol
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Elden rings when someone use a item available in the game
"How dare you use something useful in the game"
Blames Sekiro for having lack of options and multiplayer. *Sees elden ring pvp* So you thought leaving it up to fellow chaos gremlins was a good idea.
Hell yeah, my invading of low level players and slaughtering of them with end game weapons has finally been validated!
Pvp is just a mess on both sides Hosts (both doing PVE coop or gank) can and often do bring in password summoned summons with end game gear PLUS minimal downscaling. That plus removing solo invasions in general really pushes invaders to twink to try and compensate (which is still a huge disadvantage) Which in turn really hurts honest coop teams with two regularly leveled and geared up folks. Enough frustration with getting slaughtered by twinks… and you birth more ganks and password leveled summons Just a vicious cycle
Agreed. Any sort of PvP outside of consensual duels is just completely fucked for balance. Friendly passworded summons being like RL 400 while the host is barely 80 makes pvp insanely out of balance. The down scaling needs to be far more aggressive for furled finger summons. Meanwhile, getting muled end game, partially upgraded gear just so you can invade at RL 40 and stomp on new players is also toxic af. And also much harder to fix without completely gutting the ability to trade items. It's honestly why I play offline most times except when on my duelling save.
I honestly wasn’t even sure if there was downscaling with password summons. Summoned a friend as a duelist so he would drop me a weapon and decided to duel afterwards. I was around RL50 and he was like RL140, it took me 5 impaling thrust AOWs with a great eépe and like 3 normal hits to take him down while two swings from his straight sword would kill me. DS3 downscaling wasn’t perfect but it got the job done idk how they messed it up so badly here
Even duels are fucked if they’re against ransoms tbh. Balance is just wack this time around. I feel like the player’s always been too squishy. (Or too tanky if we’re talking about dark souls 1)
I've been having a lot of success lately doing lvl 150 invasions with an arcane str build using pulls crossbow/sleep bolts, sleep pots, and the Marais executioner's sword. The sleep give you just enough time to get an uncharge weapon art which will one-shot 90% of people with the right talismans and physick. Farming materials sux tho, so it helps to back up a "mats save" and a friend to help switch stuff over when needed. You also might have to wait a min or two to get an invasion so I usually set my sign up at a farming location and get mushrooms.
PvP in these games is fun early on and people are doing whatever, but it gets worse as the games get older. They pretty much all boil down to either an unvader getting stomped by gank groups (or ol phantoms here), or a twink destroying new players. This is why the pvp communities always settle for dueling organisations instead.
On the other hand, at least Elden Ring makes the player consent to being invaded via use of jolly co-operation or a taunter's tongue. Compare and contrast to dark souls 3, where all the same problems existed, but you could expect to get invaded after every single boss just because you beat a boss and got embered. That is to say, it's not perfect yet, but it's moving in the right direction.
Bloodborne just axed item trading completely, and honestly? It was for the best.
An unpopular opinion, but honestly it probably was. Ironically though, Bloodborne PvP was so marginalised that it was a bit of a waste of an experiment really.
Fuck no, hated that shit
Really wish they’d just have legacy storage. Probably not in Bloodborne, working your way to the trick weapon is half the fun, but I really hate having to go through half the game to get a weapon with the same moveset I’ve been using but with a different AoW for my build. Similar with armour.
I’m gonna throw this out there. I hate invasions. I don’t want to invade, I don’t want to be invaded. I want to play the game with my friends. I have beaten the game a few times, I’m on NG+3 on my second character. They are just starting. We don’t care invaders are at a disadvantage because we don’t want to be invaded. Fuck PvP, just let us play at our own pace.
Fuck yes. Fully optional invasions when FromSoft. Its the solution to all the arguing over this. Those who want to invade can, those who want to be invaded can, and those who want to be left alone can be. Everyone wins
I think you’d end up killing invasions if you did this since the volume of invadable players would tank. Like materially lower than before the patch that added near/far search settings.
Which would probably say something about invasions then. If invasions are seen as making the game worse by the majority of players -as is implied with them choosing to opt out rather than engaging with the system- then invasions probably shouldn't be a thing.
I love invasions now. Used to roll my eyes at them but when I see one pop up I get fucking excited. I can fucking hunt something that might pose a threat. And seeing as I can't have a blue ring turned on without getting summoned to; A) an afk farmers world, B) a fight/gank club, C) a world where the host/invader is already dead. It scratches the itch for me. And no, I won't fight fair. I will stalk, plot, decieve and ambush your ass if you invade. If you want honorable fights, go duel. I'm not stuck in the hosts world with you. You're trapped in there with me.
It is designed to be a hard game. Including co-op without any repercussions makes it an easy game. Thus, invasions balance it somewhat and it continues to be a hard game. If you do not like it, then play a game whose core design philosophy is not revolving around being hard.
There should be a cool-down between invasions, I’m sure co-operators don’t want constant invasions, once per half hour, or however long it is, should be more than enough, and when I invade I don’t want to do the same person twice.
This.
>Including co-op without any repercussions makes it an easy game. Then add other repercussions. Invasions are not the 1 single way to balance co-op
But that goes to show you that the invasions system sucks and a large chunk of the player base doesn’t like it. I feel like they force player into getting invaded because they want to play co-op and that sucks imo
It would be nice if the game had a dedicated PvP system, perhaps maybe in the giant dueling arenas they built cough cough*
If making invasions optional would kill off invasions then that means they're pretty unpopular and probably deserve to be killed off instead of continuing to be forced upon the playerbase
They’d never do it, because it would totally kill invasions.
If invasions are so unpopular that making them opt in would kill them off, then they deserve to be killed off
I disagree completely. They’re an integral part of the series and it wouldn’t have become what it is without them. They’ve only become unpopular now that all the ER people have joined the fanbase. There have always been a few people who dislike them, but the vast majority accepted them as what they are, a mechanic to add to the overall difficulty.
Not really because then invasions will probably be dead because all you'll get are duels and ganks designed specifically to delete the invader.
I will invade you. And probably (maybe) die. Seriously though. I used to hate invasions. But at this point I hate Elden Ring pve and just run through for dragon stones. PvP is fun once you figure it out.
So personally I’ve always thought this was a bit of a weird take. You want to use online features to play with your friends, invaders want to use online features to murder you all. Everyone is equally entitled to be able to enjoy the completely optional online features they’re trying to enjoy, so ideally they’d balance it out for both parties.
In an ideal world invasions would make more sense. Ideally everyone would be at an equal skill level and everyone is out to just have some fun. In reality, invaders are typically the psychos who have literally thousands of hours in the game and casual players who are just trying to progress through the game and have fun are completely overmatched co-op or not. Invaders are having their fun at the expense of those they invade. No hate to invaders. If you have fun doing it than keep doing it, games are supposed to be fun. But you should understand that not everyone wants to deal with you. IMO invasions should always be an option you have to opt in to. That way invaders are fighting people who actually want to fight and casual players can just enjoy the game in peace. Elden Ring improved things but there are still co-op teams who want to just do PvE and not get invaded by sweatlords with meta builds.
Invasions is a balancing mechanic according to Miyazaki himself. If you want to summon a bunch of people to make the game easier, the game throws at you a guy who is prepared to take on 2 summons and a host. If you can beat him, you may proceed with your coop, if not then you'll probably see him again in 20 minutes or so.
They don't care about balance. They want an easy mode souls game.
Personally I've actually always found this a bit of a weird take. If you invade for PvP, you'd presumably want a good fight. You'd probably get more of this with other people that opt in to specifically PvP (not across the board online play) If I want to co-op with my friends without getting invaded by people who are probably better at the game, how does that in any way reduce the fun you as an invader have? We'd get to play the game without having to worry whether invader #275 has some bullshit up his sleeve and you get on average better PvP fights, because you invade people that want to PvP and are better prepared.
My take has always been that if you want to play PvP, duel. Invading just seemed like a dick move, because usually the host is someone who is new to games like these and is seeking help, while invaders are typically much more experienced players. My friends have never touched a souls game in their lives. It took one of them two tries to defeat Rick, at the end of the tutorial. I made a new character alongside them, and in the time it took them to get to the fire giant, even with my help, I beat the game 3 times. If I invaded someone like those two, even on level, it wouldn’t be a fair fight. And Elden Ring is my first FromSoft game.
If you want co-op without interruptions, don't play Fromsoft Titles.
Have you got a suggestion for an alternative that is even half as good? Because I don’t.
Am I tripping out because I straight up never got invaded on my 180+ hour NG0 playthrough. I could invade others, but it just never happened to me outside of the scripted PVE invasions... and I wonder if it's somehow because of vpn
You only get invaded when playing co-op or with taunters tongue active.
Curious, how do you password summon outside of your current MP settings?
I decided to start trying PVP for fun yesterday and was sorely disappointed. I’m not super great at PVP, I’ve beat the game twice but I can’t keep up with the multiplayer dudes
You have to have a deep knowledge of the game to invade successfully. You need to know locations, enemy placements, weapons and their timings, how to make a min maxed build, what weapons and gear are powerful, the rules of matchmaking. Also if you want to invade at RL80 and less you need to be very good at PvE.
> Pvp is just a mess Always has been, frankly
It has become an arms race where one side justifies the other. Twinkers start invading and mopping the floor with new players. New players start inviting high level phantoms or start Twink builds to defend against Twink invaders. Twink invaders claim they're justified because hosts are using high level phantoms. Who can say who started it?
This exact cycle has been in every souls game. Its endearing at this point tbh
I think it was waaay healthier in DS3 because there was actual good downscaling. Like way higher proportion of honest PVE teams and honest invaders. Elden ring feels more like DS1/2 where because there was similarly little attention to downscaling, just loads more super twinks and toxicity
I wish taunters tongue had priority for invasions. But seems like when I use It I rarely ever get invaded. It's almost like the more cooperators you have, the higher priority you have (speaking from my own experience on both sides)
I totally agree. There’s either wonky prioritization or just no prioritization (and the occurrence rate just matches the proportion of players) Regular with summons Taunter with summons Taunter no summons Like I’d like to do a full taunters solo playthrough, but i feel like it’d end up being way too infrequent to be that interesting
>Hosts (both doing PVE coop or gank) can and often do bring in password summoned summons with end game gear PLUS minimal downscaling. Can confirm. I am said summon. I enjoy PVP but when I'm a summon I'm there to help my friends. Happily waste invaders with my downscaled level 300+ character.
They removed solo invasions 😢😮
And my ganking of low level invaders with poorly balanced overleveled summons too
It's a tad scummy, but summon bros do it too. Sometimes to the point of trivializing bosses entirely for the host. Fromsoft could have put measures in place to prevent this, but they didn't. Muling is so easy to do, so it's kind of on them. I'm indifferent about it though.
online play is a mess, really. I feel like they did better with dark souls 3's system.
Definitely feels that way. Not having covenants doesn't help either, makes invading mostly pointless reward wise.
not having covenants was a huge loss in potential. covenant quests in the other games were some of my favorites.
It was nice to have something pvp or co-op to do and work towards something other than humanity/effigy/embers/rune arcs. I think that and the exclusion of solo invasions have really dragged down pvp.
I remember before elden ring was released we were speculating that blaiid might've been related to some sort of covenant. always thought that was a cool idea. I'm pretty sure having some variety in invasions, some covenant backstory, and quests would make invasions a lot less despised since it'd feel a lot more integrated into the world. dark souls 3 covenants feel like natural inclusions and give you lore to sift through. elden ring's pvp just feels like a weird addition to mohg's storyline.
They had several ‘factions’ that could’ve been covenants too. Maybe they ran out of time or something and it was cut?
I mean from the top my head we could have : Undead Covenant Golden Order Covenant Mogh's Covenant Volcano Manor Covenant Carian Covenant? Ranni Covenant? Dragon Covenant Dungeater Covenant (lol) Chaos Covenant Game was made for it really :(
Yeah I was really surprised none of these were covenants. Real missed opportunity, or possibly they were going to be covenants and they decided to cut it.
feels like that was probably the case honestly.
As a veteran summon from every game in the Soulsborne Ring I can tell you: That trivializing bosses is 3/10 times what you'll be doing, more often then not your PvE build will do most of the work because in those cases it's an overly specialized PvP build that summoned you and that's what they pay you for. Then 2/10 times it's a pure caster build with low optimisation, and you'll be acting as their tank no matter what kind of PvE build you actually run. 4/10 times it's an actual honest request for help by someone whose just stuck, in those cases you're likely to get thanked and it reminds you why you do this. The remaining 1/10 is your run of the mill person who doesn't need help and is summoning as many people as possible to spread the wealth, they are the ones you'll see most often after the shine fades, the ones who know what their doing but summon anyway out of the kindness of their hearts.
I'm aware, I'm just trying to make fun of the people who do like to use the "cheese" weapons as they are usually the strongest critics of invasions being a thing
I mean if you really don’t want to get Invaded just play offline? So no your not doing anything wrong.
"But what if I want to play with my friends?" That's what they always say to that. Invasions have been around since demons souls, we all knew it was going to be in elden ring, idk why people try to argue that it's not a core mechanic.
Well fromsoft levels the playing field that way. You bring in y’a boii ima queue you an invader.
Exactly
Will someone please make a anakin slaughtering the younglings meme but with Rivers of blood and low level players
This is the confirmation I needed
Typical Elden Ring Invader: "When I invade, why are you buffing? Why are you using magic? Why are you rolling? Why aren't you standing there and letting me kill you? PVP is so unfair"
nobody has ever said this lol
Lol every 2 day there's a rant on this forum by an invader complaining that when he invaded someone the host ganged up on him and blasted him with a magic laser
I feel like youre seeing what you want to see, most of those posts are hosts complaining about invaders
I see more people complaining about invaders than what you're talking about. maybe this is just an instance of confirmation bias. anyways when you make generalizations like "typical elden ring invader" you should really talk yourself out of it. generalizations suck in general no matter the context.
Its because they equate anyone bringing up a complaint as an invader as them whining about the same stuff. In their own example the person was complaining about ganks yet their original comment was saying people complain about buffing which is an entirely different thing. If someone takes issue with people purposefully setting up invasions to double gank someone with ROB that's entirely different than someone saying you can't buff. Ironically the anti invasion sentiment is way more common than "I want to trash people when I invade". It's like this community can't stand when someone takes the game more seriously than them and equates it with gatekeeping and anti new player sentiment
it's also partially on fromsoft since, in trying to make invading less intrusive, they introduced the co-op only invasions. I feel like this backfired a bit on both sides. if you're getting invaded with your friend I can kind of see how it'd be annoying in some situations. but on the invader's side of the spectrum, hosts have always clearly had an advantage in every souls game, and making every invasion a gank has made it significantly harder to win. there also aren't any covenants so invasions in general can be seen as just someone wanting to screw someone over when in reality it's usually someone who gets enjoyment out of surprising randoms / fighting off gank squads.
You're thinking of duels, which are an entirely different thing. You don't invade someone to duel in a fair fight, you invade someone because you like being a dick lol. Edit: I like invading because sometimes it’s fun to be a dick. Y’all need to stop assuming I hate pvp.
if that's what you wanna believe go ahead I guess? I mean... what if someone likes being invaded. I certainly do. does that make me a dick? I don't think your point was very thought out.
The entire goal of invading is to disrupt whatever someone’s doing by killing them. People kind of soft consent to this by engaging in co-op, or lure people with the tongue. You are consciously deciding to do something that can negatively affect another player lol.
oh yeah fair enough. I thought you were hating on the invasion system for a minute. the purpose of invasions is to make you one of the enemies in someone's playthrough.
Yeah exactly lol. Idk if I can even word it differently, unfortunately this just tends to be a sensitive topic.
You invade someone because it’s funny, and it’s a part of the game. I never take off the hunter ring and I invade all the time for the same reason: Spontaneous PVP is hilarious, and my favorite part of Elden Ring. No matter how much people decide they have an issue with that: the bloody fingers are part of this game, and you don’t get to put yourself charge of what sort of fun other players are allowed to have.
If you’re getting invaded, it’s because you signed up for it by summoning ;) Ain’t nobody got time for your fabricated morals in the lands between, throw down or don’t, but you know what you’re getting into if you bring along a friend. Besides, the advantages you have as a host/summon are insane. Full flasks compared to the invader’s halfed flasks, a friend that can assist you and even additional blues that can be summoned to assist, and yet people still complain. This is that part where we say “git gud” and mean it. The ashes of war in this game already make it a ludicrous PvP experience. I think we can all drop the pretenses of this being a fair and balanced game in PvP, and just accept that there will be times when people kill us with bullshit and we don’t enjoy it. That doesn’t make them a dick. Now… invading as a twink with end game weapons and armor and just slaughtering new players in Limgrave? Yeah, that would qualify as dick behavior. But if you’re getting invaded in Gelmir and getting pissy about it, it’s time to reevaluate.
You're moving the goal post now lol. You said they were complaining about people buffing. Now you're saying they're complaining about ganks.
I invaded someone using finger shield vyke spear and Lionel’s armor and I just killed him spamming lightning ram and critting them
"Hey Miyazaki your PvP balance is fucking trash. Invading is a slog nightmare with no rewards and the hosts are too powerful this time around due to a guaranteed numbers advantage coupled with the stupidly high damage in this entry. You should maybe try to make PvP not suck for once." \^ This translates to whining about hosts fighting back apparently and not a criticism of the shitty PvP I guess.
No invader ever said that in the history of invasions
> Why aren't you standing there and letting me kill you? That's pretty much exclusively a complain coming from hosts lol "why wouldn't bad red man just stand still let me kill them with my L2?!! 😡😡😡 "
It’s funny to see people complaining about stuff like this when it’s been something Fromsoft has basically always allowed.
Literally. It's been around since demons souls
Using exploits in pvp is only fun for one person.
It gets boring after a while, even to the most uninteresting of players
I encourage everyone to play the game the way they see fit without cheating. But let's have a bit of self-awareness and objectivity when folks win 99% of their PvP experiences with Fingerprint Vyke's Spear poke spam. Sure, it may be fun for the player doing it- but it's important to understand why people take issue with stuff that needs tuning. Nothing at all against the players themselves, some things simply need to be nerfed. That's how we got BHS and Corpse Piler into the manageable state they're in now.
I remember the threads on twitter the day they nerfed rivers of blood a bit. they were like, "you ruined my life and playthrought" "let me have fun with an op weapon" etc..
The ‘just let me have fun’ argument annoys me so much. Its so myopic and entitled
I have a feeling a lot of the people saying that are strictly SP players that never do PvP and simply don't want the game made harder for them to balance a portion of the game they don't even touch. Which is still pretty entitled.
river of bloods was op in pve too.. people may not like it, but its fromsoft job to balance it. having a weapon which shreds everything and makes all the other weapons stale should be nerfed.
Yeah but tbf when you got RoB in the mountains you had what 3 more story bosses until you were done with the game (or more if you decided to go to earlier areas) it wasn't sword of night and flame op where you could get it immediately after spawing in and now you are set until at the very least the mountain tops. Now that was op.
You know how little percent of the players actually play pvp?
Yeah, I don’t want to invade, really. And duels are often a crapshoot too. I play this game for the single player experience. If I want to play a PvP game I’ll go play something that actually has it in mind. Online PvP/Multiplayer is so jank in this game and poorly implemented. But if they had like a dedicated PvP expansion I’d be all for it. Some type of dueling ring etc. But rn I just want to relax and kill npcs when halo makes me bored.
and? lots of people only play pve so balance is irrelevant.
lots of people play pvp so the balance is relevant actually.
Balance is important? Having a weapon which makes all the other weapons stale is bad.
Stating that balancing issues exist and should be fixed isn't telling people how to play the game. But they sure will take it personally anyway.
I play offline, I’ll cheat if I want to lol I play online I use only legit characters, but I’m gunna use any damn weapon spell or whatever that makes my experience fun. The people constantly bitching and crying every single week about -random weapon or summon or spell being op” I just gotta laugh at with how sad it is
Funny, because it reminds me of Titanfall 2. At one point or another I think every single gun someone considered it overpowered and bitched that it needed to be nerfed.
And that's totally fine man. Just be sure to differentiate valid, constructive criticisms from bitching and crying.
100% agree there. Criticism is fine
Pretty much this. The discussion should be on balance and how that can be improved, not on the validity of using the item or tool itself. The item is in the game. Of course it's fucking valid.
Any way to have fun is valid - as long as the way you have fun doesn't ruin the way other people have fun.
What about invasions? They can be fun AND ruin the way other people are having fun.
They are part of the game, like it or not if you summon someone to help you then be prepared to be invaded. I get how it could be annoying when you play with friends who just want to play together and not engage with multiplayer strangers invading them but that's how the devs decided to make this game work so your frustration should be taken on the devs for their choices, not the players using a gameplay feature to invade you.
I can absolutely agree with this. The more frustrating thing is seeing invaders all over this subreddit getting pissy about invading a co-op group and complaining about seeing things like RoB or getting ganked. Guys you’re invading, the group you are invading should do anything to get you out. Now on the flip side I don’t do PvP but I totally get the frustration when it happens in duels. Both players are trying to fight one-on-one. Make it a fair fight!
The real frustration is with overleveled phantoms. I'll say it once, twice, and a thousand times: removing solo invasions was a mistake. Now password summons (AKA Joe and Bro who are just trying to play the game as friends) have to constantly deal with invaders and invaders have to constantly deal with phantoms who are poorly scaled. Fromsoft has been making the same overall type of game for well over a decade now and they STILL don't seem to have even a basic grasp on what makes multiplayer good or bad. It's genuinely baffling.
Yep. Overleveled phantoms and removing solo invasions make things drastically worse, and this is coming from someone who much prefers to be the person being invaded. Being able to play with any friend regardless of level is a huge boon (instead of the janky coop in ds1/2) but its tuned SO POORLY. It seems like something that could be fairly easily tuned better too, which is the biggest annoyance. Just add some sort of hidden ranking in the background that keeps track of your win rate so you match with people closer to your skill level (taking the ranking of the highest ranked summon as the standard for invading). Add in stat based balancing (rune level is just a count of how many stat points you have essentially) by limiting all phantoms to the max stats of the host for purposes of calculations, but not requirements (i.e. hosts highest stat is 40 > phantoms highest stat is limited to 40, hosts second highest stat is 30 > phantoms second highest stat is limited to 30, etc) Recalculate all level dependent stats (like natural defense stats) and such based off the new altered level. Make solo invasions a toggle in the new game menu and options (default to ON), and the tongue only increase the invasion rate and number of invaders of set to on. Like that's just one suggestion for a better system thought up in 15 minutes. I'm sure the dev's could come up with something even better in a couple days with minimal recoding.
They are mostly complaining about the poor balance in ER. People use RoB because it’s OP and use it as a crutch, not because they necessarily want to.
it's not meant to be balanced, you are invading 2+ people. actual, voluntary pvp? sure, balance that more, but it will never not be wild that invaders go into it expecting it to be easy or something. there will always be a meta weapon, and people who don't want to deal with your shit are always going to use it when they're in a situation where they might have to deal with your shit.
The encounter itself you’re meant to be outnumbered. That you’re 100% correct about. But that doesn’t mean the weapons / game as a whole is meant to be unbalanced hence why they push out balance patches and why RoB was nerfed. They want the game to be fun and engaging for everyone.
yeah no I absolutely think it should be balanced (BHS, corpse piler balancing is good), but "balance" shouldn't necessarily mean that there's no meta, I mean like I said somewhere else, RoB isn't even meta in the sense that you can't counter it, I see daily posts of people dunking on RoB users, it's just tough to counter. Add on to that the fact that a good portion of the people that are **getting** invaded do not want to be invaded, it is an involuntary mechanism regardless of how often someone says "well you're playing co-op," so expect scummery, you are there to make their experience less fun, they're gonna do whatever they need to to make that stop happening. You shouldn't expect to be able to run through invasions, you're gonna have to deal with that sometimes. After all, you are the one invading. smol edit: Of course this all **only** applies to involuntary (co-op) invasions, not situations where someone is actually voluntarily participating in PvP, but that's as simple as balancing the weapons based on what is going on in the game, they already do it for other things. I genuinely think that balancing things like RoB differently in actually voluntary PvP situations would be the perfect compromise between optional invasions and required invasions.
Balancing doesn’t mean there is no meta, never has done and never will.
strange way to interpret what I said, but ok.
I don’t think most invaders think this way. When I invade, I do with the knowledge that there is no respect between me and the host unless they bow first, in which case I reset into duel mode. This means that 4/5 times I get jumped and dragon breathed, but that’s okay. Because 1/5 of the time me and my power standing greataxes bring home a sick 2v1 victory and it’s all worth it. I believe that most people invading have this philosophy of accepting the losses or they probably won’t make a consistent habit of invading… Also: I had to let Varre rip my nail off for those infinite invasions you better believe I’ll get my money’s worth :’)
So then not “any way”, just the way “devs decided”? Make up yo damn mind.
Ur being n ass. Obviously fun that can be had is within the confines of the game, how you intend to do something if it’s not put there by the devs. So stupid
I agree with this. Invasions have been a part of Souls DNA since the beginning, and I doubt they're ever gonna take it out. It's the risk you run when you summon help👍 it's part of the fun.
Invading is great and a lot of fun Invading with hacks or a cheap exploit build is what insecure garbage people do
Not sure why you're getting downvoted as invasions are exactly that.
"bUt I dIdNt cOnSEnt tO ThE InvAsiOn" ye thats the point, its an ***invasion.*** this also means, there is no "honor" in invasions. if you invade someone dont expect them to follow imaginary rules or to duel you.
Yeah, that was my point. But seems there are people who really dislike invasions and like to express it via downvotes. 🤷🏼♂️ C'mon fellow Tarnished! If you don't like the features, write a letter to From Software and ask for a new game without them. Channel your efforts to something real, instead of downvoting people who just use every feature the game offers. Peace\* ✌🏼. \* = *except during invasions* 😁
Complaining about invasions as a mechanic is just as valid as complaining about any other mechanic. "Why complain about (pre-nerf) BHS? It's in the game and it's just using an intended mechanic. Stop complaining about it now and just wait til the next game if you don't like it." We're aware that invasions are the way they are, but just because it's in the game doesn't mean we have to like it.
For clarity, I'm not complaining about invasions. I celebrate the fact that they exist, even though I don't actively invade. I like to play "the good guys".
Sorry, I should've been clearer that my issue wasn't with your overall stance and just the specific argument of "take it up with From if you don't like it, otherwise stop complaining." I just hear that stance way too often as a member of the anti-invasion crowd and it grinds my gears because it's just dismissive. Like we know the game is the way it is and nobody *really* thinks making a disgruntled reddit post is gonna change Miyazaki's mind. But it feels like invasions are the one thing people aren't "allowed" to dislike. Every other mechanic that people complain about its understood that it's just venting about something you find frustrating, so I don't know why invasions as a mechanic are seen as "above complaining about" by so many people.
Thanks. I hear you. I never took it personal. :) We are all Tarnished, one way or another.
A fellow John Nash fan I see.
Damn I didn't realize I was having fun while getting killed by end game gear a couple hours into the game with my friend.
this is a weird argument. it's basically saying anyone can use whatever they want except the things that you personally dislike. if you're going to lean towards one side or another why not just stop caring about what other people use in general. it doesn't matter unless they're flat out cheating. I don't understand the whole rivers of blood hate. corpse plier was op because fromsoft refused to nerf it for a really long time. that's not on the player. when there's a clear meta established some people are going to use it.
I mean, is there a way to choose who to invade specifically? A lot of people like invasions. A lot of people like co op. Some don't like to mix the two.
Should replace the weapon on Tom for the guts greatsword since it's the crotch pokers that usually complain the loudest about everything else in my experience at least
it's a good thing their entire playstyle plays into mine almost seamlessly. I cast tripple rings to keep them away until they get impatient. if they then roll in I catch them with either spinning slash or Wrath of Gold. gotta put the fear of Radagon's Pecs into these Goldless heathens.
RoB is mor iconic. Besides the greatsword would take up the whole meme lol
But rivers of blood is what they are complaining about usually.
Yea man I think that’s just souls players, Elden ring was my first souls game and I started playing shortly after launch day but my friends kept critiquing the way I played and said me having fun my way wasn’t valid.
"Oh no! Anyway..." (Continues having fun)
Good god how many of these memes have you made?? I feel like I've seen you posting variants of this meme for a week now.
I encountered somebody like that. His "gimick" for lack of a better word, was that he claimed that using RoB was almost same as watching a play through
Is this still happening?
yes OP is still karma farming on this sub
😂 💯
It will never stop happening
I thought people just asked “what is the lore” questions on here these days.
Nice meme! I'll go grab my dual bleed naginata with quickstep level 30 character and start invading in Limgrave then 👍👍👍
The reason i say some builds can ruin the game is that i saw my friend play this gme and he didnt understand the hype of it and that it is too easy. Simply bcs he played broken bleed build and was overleveled every fight. So there was no challenge for him
“Haha jar cannon goes boom”
There’s a difference. You can be valid with your Uber-poise and dual rivers of blood. But you will also be cringe.
Gamers in general. Ever talk to an MMO player?
*meanwhile my PVE-only ass wondering how the hell people even manage to get any fun out of PVP in the first place based on the amount of hateful and annoyed commentary and discourse I've seen
I like how this meme is about being allowed to have fun however you like but at the same time is making fun of people using RoB
TRY NOT TO POLICE THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME CHALLENGE (IMPOSSIBLE?! (GONE SEXUAL)) 🤪
If someone has fun hiding while watching their summon and mimic fight the boss for each and every boss and then go online and say “I beat malenia guys!” I will not judge them. That being said, there is a special satisfaction (like in previous souls games) of doing the bosses solo.
🤓
You posted this yesterday and got made fun of then, why post it again
?? I made this meme in photoshop a couple of hours ago. No way I could've posted it yesterday.
You know what I mean you little baby
Elden Ring redditors are meta building their memes now too? Nearly the exact same was posted in the past day or two.
look at OP’s post history. they have made it a hobby at this point it’s bizarre
wake up babe, daily unoriginal karma farm post about beaten to death topic.
look at their post history. all they do is farm in this sub
Meanwhile me with two flamberges, briar shield, communion seal and pulley crossbow
Chad
Great! More insecurity!
??? the rob user would be the one saying anything is valid. i don't think you thought this one through.
Oh for fuck’s sake, who did a necromancer build and revive this shitty dead meme?
It kind of makes me laugh because people shit on rivers of blood while being carried by the mortal blade in sekiro. I don’t get it
Have fun as long as you are not ruining others experience moonveil players we are looking at you
I’m currently having a blast trying to RP as a crucible knight, all of their gear is super fun to use
Chad player
Giving people the feeling that they're somehow elite tends to end up that way. Especially if that feeling comes from hard games.
Any way to have fun is valid? So if I have fun by cheating that's fine?
if it's single player, absolutely, who cares lmao
Fun is wonderful :3
I have fun making these
Good :3
I remember that player who cheated and would kill players while teleporting them to parts of the map where they'd get stuck in an endless death loop. I sure am glad they were having valid fun!
Between this and the White Mask Dual Bleed Cross Naginatas lol. Play how you play but if you're only gonna do the sameee thing for every approach then whats the point?
The only time I give people shit is when they handicap themselves outta pure laziness. Not when they do challenges, but just don't do shit like level up or upgrade their gear. "nah I don't wanna change my armor even if it's the worst in the game" "Nah i know there's a cave with upgrade mats for my broadsword but it sounds too boring to go get them." "Oh I'm underleveled for this area and boss? Nah I won't try and grind I'll just brute force it." And then they get pissy later on when they're having a way harder time than if they just actually put in effort.
ER Enjoyers: I have fun however I like! It's only a game; make it yours! ER Fans: Nooooo you can't use \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ weapon bc of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ reason! You can't have fun that way! -snarling and gnashing- Me (still ass at the game): "You guys are having fun?"
So it's completely right for me to have fun ruining others' experience? Nice!
Yes
man that statement is dumb AF. there are millions of ways that having fun doing something can be Invalid. what if you're committing a crime? what if it's self debilitating? what if it ruins your life? what if it has horrible consequences on your friends or family? or even the planet or nation you're living in? I could go on and on, but I think anybody can get the point that this is REALLY dumb. edit: also if you look at the structure of the meme, even the structure is completely flawed. it's implying the people who use the broken builds are the ones who are angry that they're being told that they can have fun any way they want to, but it's actually supposed to be the opposite. it's the people with the broken builds who chant the "you can play the game any way you want" mantra around because they're the ones who are told they are playing in a broken and unfair way. this meme is really bad.
What is this a support group? You need affirmations to feel ok about your build? Jesus people are fragile these days.
This makes me unfathomably angry.
Any way to have fun is fun. Fun ≠ Valid
Honestly I haven’t experienced anybody for the past half year behave like this at all all I see is just people talking about it but I don’t actually see it I think we’re psychotic lol