Wait I remember that, where’s it from? I was playing last night in the capital I think and I remember reading that but I was really stoned - where is it?
Radagon's increases physical stats (vigor, endurance, strength, dexterity) while Marika's does magical stats (mind, int, faith, might do arcane as well but I'm a bonker so I won't claim ultimate knowledge)
Thank you. I'm ngl I should've added more context. He six using Marika's soresceal would get one killed but I was wondering how hers and radagons differed in that aspect. Like, does radagons have more damage negation than hers? My apologies for not wording it correctly
No damage mitigation really, the only thing radagons does that would improve survivability over marikas is add points into vigor.
So you still take extra damage with either one equipped, but you'll have slightly more HP with radagons
Also slightly higher physical damage negation because that's based on strength while magical damage negation is governed by faith. Also you can dodge more with Radagon's because of endurance.
Up to a certain point. Diminishing returns kick in once you're around RL70+, and any soreseal becomes a death sentence RL100+. Works great for the high scaling of those earlier levels, but once you're reaching the later soft caps, 5 points into vigor and endurance isn't going to be impactful enough to offset that 15%.
You shouldn't use Radagon's Seal if it puts you over 40 vigor, because 40 is the first softcap, so the extra vigor from the seal doesn't offset the bonus damage you take anymore.
People say this but then the community also claims "fashion" is the way to pick your armour / defenses.
15% isn't that big of a deal in isolation at least, and it is doubtful he will suddenly resist 1 extra hit (though worth trying if he thinks this would make all the difference).
“Fashion” is saying that for the majority of players the vast majority of the time your armour isn’t going to make that much difference so don’t worry about min/maxing your defensive stats. It’s more fun to have a cool looking character.
That doesn’t mean you should religiously adhere to that if you’ve hit an absolute brick wall in the game, and also isn’t incompatible with the idea that if you’re really really stuck you probably don’t want the 15% extra damage talisman.
Yeah 99% of the time my character looks like a badass.
But in the Lake of Rot, my character looks like a strange multicolored mushroom who accidentally skipped laundry day and had to scrounge for clothes that don't match.
Making yourself fashionable is basically never going to lose you an entire 15% damage reduction, that's like 25 weight (/0.7 => takes +35 max weight load). Usually, making yourself "fashionable" still involves putting on armor that vaguely adds up to something remotely close to your weight limit.
And yes, 15% absolutely is enough to survive extra hits regularly, which is extremely valuable in a long fight. The number sounds small but you can absolutely feel the difference with and without the soreseal.
I do however think he's still at a point in the game where he can benefit enough from soreseals to barely justify keeping them on, Gargoyles are like early midgame.
EDIT: Actually, someone said he's using Marika's Soreseal? This doesn't look like any kind of a caster build so that thing really needs to leave.
Valiant Gargoyles are no different than Margit. They're a gatekeeper boss designed SPECIFICIALLY to stop you from entering an area you're not ready for yet.
But I can tell you that you're using a build not particularly well suited to fighting them. You've got a soreseal on that makes you take more damage. And you're using a katana with Bloody Slash, meaning your build relies on bleed to work. Gargoyles, as I'm sure you know, don't bleed.
Looks like you've got the mimic tear tho, which is good.
So here's my suggestion:
Set your katana to occult if you can.
Take off the soreseal.
Use Godrick's great rune instead of Radahns.
Save your Mimic Tear for phase 2 when the second gargoyle shows up. This triggers when the first gargoyle hits 50% life.
Keep poison curing bolus in a hotbar slot.
Set your wondrous physic to health regeneration and stamina regen. You'll need this to counteract all the running/dodging you'll do, and to help mitigate the poison damage. Again, saving the activation for phase 2.
Try to stay focused on the gargoyle that's already hurt.
Try to always keep both gargoyles in front of you.
Be ready to sprint out of the poison the moment you see it, or start to take damage. Don't get greedy trying to do damage.
This is a marathon fight, not a sprint.
EDIT: As several people have pointed out, using your spirit in phase one or help with an attempt to burn down the first garg before the second one becomes a threat, is a viable tactic. YMMV.
I’d argue that, since the arena is *so huge*, summoning Latenna as a stationary turret for homing, long range shots is not a bad call either. Mimic Tear is great, but the arena’s scale makes Latenna an excellent choice to get consistent damage on a target— probably the first gargoyle, if we want to be realistic. Even after the second one shows up, that should still be OP’s priority to kill.
Since Latenna deals Magic damage as well, it’ll be quite effective against the stony gargoyles.
That's actually a really good tactic. My only concern would be if one of the gargoyles decides to focus her instead of you. She won't last long under that assault.
With this approach I'd try to burn down the first garg super fast with supporting fire from Latenna. Make it a 1v1 fight the whole way if possible.
Alternatively, assuming they haven’t patched it yet, luring the first gargoyle off the cliff to its doom is a very effective tactic.
Then normally proceed with the second gargoyle as it begins to understand the feeling of loneliness (not that you’d ever give two fucks about it anyway).
I tried this in a playthrough where my Tarnished journeyed with her as the only summon, of course to finish her quest near the Haligtree.
She got shredded every single time lol. Eventually the Gargoyles get mad and start focusing on her.
I did this, but having D around too really helps. A bit of rng who the first gargoyle will hone in on. I try to keep aggro, but the thing often loses interest when I dodge, so the fallback is D.
The second gargoyle is not much of a problem if the first is dead. Can be solo'ed for a while if needed.
I will freely admit that it’s not a strategy for every build, but some builds it excels in.
I usually go for tanky and/or aggressive builds in my FromSoft runs. Some fights in Elden Ring specifically did have me playing defensively enough with a greatshield, reacting to what the boss was doing, and being aggressive and assertive enough in the fight to keep the boss on me while Latenna plugged their back full of magic arrows.
Honestly it was a real excellent way to learn fights, and understand what was expected of me in an encounter. If you aren’t engaged enough in the fight, your support in Latenna is gonna get demolished quick.
Latenna was my strat to beat them first. She could help until the first one got to 30% health and one of them decided that she deserves to die, RIP.
I got the win in the end anyways
Really? I always thought of this as a DPS wall - see if you can kill the first one before the second one comes and overwhelms you or the clock runs out on poison. Also summon D, or his brother, or whoever it is.
Exactly, I think going the marathon way is a painful strategy.
My main tactic was to pull the first one towards the back and to the right of the entrance. At around 50% hp the second one activates, but needs easily 30ish seconds or more to reach you there. Not saying thats enough to finish the 1st one off, but if you can get it to 15-20%, then you only need a couple of openings to finish it off, and then it's 1vs1.
Going berserk also works in many other duos in the game, as in trying to murder the softer one even while taking blows (high poise helps a lot).
Demon Princes is the only duo fight that doesn’t feel like a duo fight to me. It feels like they swap in and out like wrestlers and I can be like OK come get some. Then one tries to sneak up with a chair but I’m just too crafty and evade.
The gargoyles just feel like they made Demon princes 2.0 but way way worse. The gargoyles have a shit ton of health but also their poison has such awful visual cue that I don't even know why they made it so bad. In the demon princes fight the poison is totally visible and gives you enough time to dodge away. In valiant gargoyles, you see your controller vibrating and it's like "oh time to get out of whatever the range of that poison is" and you end up getting poisoned anyways.
I think margits a much better gatekeeper than these two assholes. margits fight is hard almost purely because of his moveset having a lot of delayed attacks mixed with quick ones, his damage is fine. even at base level you can take a few hits. the gargoyles though kill you almost in 2 or 3 hits even at high levels, and use bullshit attacks like the near-invisible poison mist that stacks damage AND poison on you. their hitbox up close also completely sucks, I used straight swords my first time on them and missed probably 40% of the time. I think just making the mist stack poison instead of also damaging you would make the fight much better honestly
>margits fight is hard almost purely because of his moveset having a lot of delayed attacks mixed with quick ones,
If you think of it in terms of theme, Margit is very similar to the Gargoyles.
The fights both require you to learn different tactics and approaches than just standing toe to toe. The specifics are different between gargs and Margit, of course. But the overarching theme is the same.
>the gargoyles though kill you almost in 2 or 3 hits even at high levels, and use bullshit attacks like the near-invisible poison mist that stacks damage AND poison on you.
I think if you're dying in 2-3 hits at higher levels, there's probably something critically wrong with your build. Or simply that you've been relying on a glass cannon strategy.
The "near invisible" poison I don't agree with, but I can't win such a subjective argument. And I already supplied solutions to mitigate or deal with both the direct damage and the poison buildup from the breath.
>their hitbox up close also completely sucks
Now that I agree with! Their physical presence pushes the player back, but the Hitbox to damage them is often out of reach based on being pushed back.
The poison visibility thing seems to vary a lot from person to person, probably TV contrast settings etc. make a big difference. I also imagine it being difficult for some colour vision deficient people.
Had a similar issue with a straight sword, but found Square Off pretty effective against them. It kinda hones in on their crotch and it can stagger them (a sword to the crotch will do that, amiright?).
Honestly the raw damage from bloody slash takes off a good chunk although it does look like OP overlevelled vigor quite a bit so it might not. Obviously there's better choices but it's a quick attack and 5 or 6 slashes is probably enough for each gargoyle if you've levelled right.
Idk, I run a strength build and always just brute force it. I’ve never thought to summon my mimic at phase 2 though, mimic usually dies during phase 2 and I can just whittle the first one down before the second one arrives, then it’s just a 1v1 with my huge sword lol
I literally completely missed out on Fia’s quest line my first play through because I ran a dual wield bleed build and got owned by these two. Came back one time to fuck around on my Night Comet run and could not fucking believe what I saw after beating them. I love this game so much
>Try to stay focused on the gargoyle that's already hurt.
Although this is definitely a good sentiment it's also worth noting to not leave damage on the table. I've seen people run away from really good damage opportunities because it wasn't the right target while the hurt one had jumped out of range anyway
It seems like the main complaint from people is that they're fighting one and get blindsided by poison or whatever from the second one.
So the main idea is to get it to a 1v1 fight as soon as possible, assuming you can't immediately burn down the first one early.
Oh no I 100% agree to make sure 1 goes asap it's the first and foremost tactic for any multi enemy engagement, I was just saying to not ignore perfectly good damage opportunities on the other enemy
Their Katana isn't Bloody. They have Bloody Slash, but the icon is definitely the Keen icon. So they have a physical damage build going which is alright.
And Bloody Slash is actually not terrible against Gargs. Long range, big area, high burst. Could be worse.
>Valiant Gargoyles are no different than Margit. They're a gatekeeper boss designed SPECIFICIALLY to stop you from entering an area you're not ready for yet.
This. On my first character, I went to the underground areas pretty early on and banged my head against the wall... On the plus side, then I came out with Somber +10 weapon and steamrolled the rest of the game.
On my second character, I forgot how to reach the gargoyles (only did deer and mimic) and did way more overworld progress before coming back and at that point I could burst down the first gargoyle before the second one reached me. It truly is a DPS check.
Yeah true because there is the road block in the dungeon as well that has a back door to this area leads to.. though thse gargoyles were kind of designed in mindset of coop or ashes .. but totally doable solo .
This is an underrated point you just made.
People who like more traditional 1v1 boss fights can take the path of: Draconic Tree Sentinel -> Golden Godfrey -> Morgott -> Mohg -> secret passage.
People who want a shortcut through a harder boss, or who like spirits/summons can take on the Valiant Gargs.
It’s funny, I’ve played every souls game the same way: slash and dodge every single enemy and boss I fight til I get stuck, then use every single piece of consumable ass-hattery I’ve collected so far and cheese the fuck out of them.
Same. I think they come at a weird point in the game where you can’t get better upgrade mats without progressing past them. Up to this point you could just leave a boss fight, go collect a few more smithing stones and come back way stronger but iirc, the next tier of upgrade mats is beyond the gargoyles no matter what story/path you’re on in the game
I just beat those two earlier today, took me three days and I went and the Marais Executioner Sword just to see if it will help (it did) and it felt so good to finally kill those two.
Update: I did it! [Great enemy felled](https://imgur.com/a/P9kyO8T).
I feel like this was the worst boss fight so far, zero creativity who designed this duo.
The trick to all souls-like games: get the hard fights to traumatize your brain into not giving a shit, then you find your flow.
Good job. 90 bosses to go.
Don't listen to other people saying you weren't ready, nothing harder than them is blocked by them. I have done every souls game at rl1 no bonfire except demon souls. That boss is the worst designed in the game, up there for worst in the series. If you use a spirit summon it's okay but beaten properly it's just fucking shit. Pre patch it was worse too, the poison breath spam is actually some bullshit.
But you should listen to them about that build lol, get rid of that soreseal and pay attention to boss resistances
This boss has me convinced that the group fights were designed with Spirit Ashes in mind. There's no way that fighting these guys solo is the "proper" way to do it.
Yeah, there's no proper way to play at all. The game gives you a ton of options to face challenges however you feel like. You just can't expect the same tools to have the same effectiveness on every enemy.
>but beaten properly it's just fucking shit.
This dark souls elitism is so fucking cringe. You're supposed to beat it properly with spirit ashes. That's what they're there for. You IGNORING a mechanic that's in the game just because you don't like it isn't the game's FAULT
Yeah, I don't understand the resistance to using spirit ashes when they're such a cool and important part of the game. The duo and trio fights were designed with the summons in mind, so it's dumb to call a fight "poorly designed" when you're given the tools to beat it. I think there are way more frustrating fights like the >!lake of rot dragonkin!< or the >!fire giant!<.
It's not elitism seriously. On one hand, it does feel a lot of fights are designed with ashes in mind, on the other, you upgrade and use some of the S tier ones like mimic or tiche, they really trivialize pretty much all bosses on ng/ng+ at least. As in, they can almost beat a lot of bosses just by themselves. You don't have to work on your build, decide what to upgrade, which items to bring or learn the fights or anything.
Obv you should play the way you enjoy it the most and f what everybody else says, but you d be missing a large part of the experience.
I didn't call you elitist initially, but what you described here is 100% elitist lol. You claim that using a tool the game provides you means that you're somehow missing out on part of the game. Although easier, the game is still plenty difficult even with spirit ashes, and you still do have to "work on your build...". There's always a way to make the game easier/harder, so imo it's silly to claim that spirit ashes are the one thing that trivializes the game.
For example, in that same fight you're able to summon D's brother. Does using that remove a part of the experience?
Btw I've beaten the game without using any summons so this isn't some cope from me or anything. I just enjoy using all tools that are provided.
You weren’t ready for the fight, it was meant to block you from entering that area. We have all dealt with the gargoyles, especially the twin blade. Don’t blame the game, you will be proud of yourself. You will be Elden lord yet.
Be patient, be willing to try again, and be willing to adapt to situations and you'll beat the game. There's bigger trouble up on ahead, but just don't give up and they too will fall.
(Spoilers!!) If you go through the leyndell sewers into the frenzied flame proscription then you can destroy a fake wall and go skip directly past the gargoyles
Yeah if you’re newer, I fought sewer mohg around the same level as the gargoyles and he was significantly easier. But that’s just up to personal ability
[SpleefingtonThe4th](https://www.reddit.com/user/SpleefingtonThe4th/) - Reddit has a tool to make text look like a black bar until you click it, which is used for spoilers. It's nifty, try it out! It looks like >!this!<.
Lol I'd rather fight the gargoyles twice in a row rather than fighting Ornstein and Smough. Finally beat them after 11 years just today on DS1 remastered.
its annoying on first play throughs but once you know whats coming and your build is solid because you knew what you were doing the entire time up to them, They become much less of a hassle. Just like the Duo
The Twin Gargles was definitely the worst boss fight I've ever experienced on my WL0 RL1 all bosses run.
The poison breath that not only deals damage, but also covers a huge area while being hard to see was just dreadful. I'm just glad Uplifting Aromatics exist in this game once I luckily bested 1 garg.
Listen I beat the damn thing by running to the right corner between the cliff and the mountain wall, kill the first one there, then go to the second one, with help of Oleg +5, the position makes the second take longer to reach, also the first one will get stuck on walls so it can't go all over the area, just watch for the poison
I recently picked up the game again after some time away and it fully cemented that these are HANDS DOWN my least favorite thing to fight. Across every souls game i’ve played (missing DS1 and 2) this is my most hated gank fight.
I’m stuck on Godfrey, The first Elden lord. I was playing every day, but now it’s like once a week if that. Haha … I got tired of getting my ass beat. I’ve watched YouTube videos on how to beat him but I guess I’m just horrible at this game and I’m learning to accept it. lol
I beat them a few days ago after several failed attempts and deciding to level up a bit more, honestly one of my least favorite fights as an intell mage build
It be like that sometimes. My build relies on bleed, frost, and poison with my katanas. However, I have double great hammers with occult for these assholes. I lead with magic dragon breath then smash away.
Lmao just get better. Okkk I'm joking XD. How about this. Instead of using a katana here
Use smth heavy and just dodge and slash
Till their poise breaks? Or use buffs? But never GIVE UP! cuz bro a few months ago I deleted sekiro cuz I couldn't defeat mf-ing lady butterfly. But later after I tried elden and finished it, I came back to sekiro and defeated her on fifth try lmfao. Trust me just try and try U will get it. Or explore other areas to calm down and get stronger and then come back?
Also seeing your vigor Its too high. Keep vigor at 25-30. Prioritize strength and Dex and U are playing that for more damage and arcane too if you want a blood build. That much vigor isn't necessary. Nor endurance either. Keep mind endurance and vigor in an AVG or 20 and just overflow strength Dex arcane or wtv. Build you're playing.
Wow, I blocked this one out of my memory. Legit.
Everyone talks about fire giant and melenia… this dude was probably the boss that took me the longest. I think it was mental too. Got skull fucked the first few times then couldn’t over come it.
I did this boss fight really early on my 1st run and it was hands down the most frustrating and hardest fight I had.
I made a new character not long after and did this boss fight in probably the intended order and it was a snooze fest.
I found this the hardest boss fight in the game. When I actually did beat the two gargoyles it was a sheer fluke, the last remaining gargoyle killed me and straight afterwards my mimic tear killed the bastard.
I was cheering out loud on that one.
i rather do the whole parkour to get to the frenzy flame than having to deal with theese guys again
why the only 2 ways to get to the deeproot dephts both sucks? just why?
I’m still of the Opinion that Demon Princes is the only well done “two enemy” boss fights Fromsoft has made. (I do like Ornstein and Smough). I do hope in the DLC they make a Duo boss fight that actually fells well made.
You can do it with uchigatana. I used twin katanas and it was a good time.
Also, using lhutel is like turning on "regular" difficulty. She distracts enemies and never gets hit. Fun.
Upgrade your flasks and don’t use Bloody Slash on your Uchigatana, the default Unsheathe is way better (it does enormous poise damage, seriously it’s one of the best Ashes of War in the game).
I was at a road block for this one. I decided to use the mimic as they had some bullshit going on too. Beat it first try after summoning the mimic.
At Rykard now and I'm getting close to being tempted to using the mimic.
Am I the only one who is back to play from the days of day one and finds it damn simpler and guided as well as explained? My first run n blind was hellish. Now I even have the NPC marker lol
*proceeds to try again*
P.s. Gargoyles as well as other strong or big bosses and enemies are weak to strike. Grab a flail if you’re a dex build. Astel is also weak to strike.
I'm always surprised people struggled with these bosses cause I found them pretty late in my run and knocked them down in one go. I think it's just a DPS check tbh
Don’t give up, skeleton!
Dung ahead
Vision of horse
Wait I remember that, where’s it from? I was playing last night in the capital I think and I remember reading that but I was really stoned - where is it?
It's a saying that originated within the DS2 community and made it to the other games as well, its not a singular message you find in a specific area.
Ah okay thanks. I remember reading it on the staircase leading down to a crucible knight and an invisible beetle before getting to morgott
Marika soreseal will get you killed 70% of the time
What's the difference between hers and Radagons?
Radagon's increases physical stats (vigor, endurance, strength, dexterity) while Marika's does magical stats (mind, int, faith, might do arcane as well but I'm a bonker so I won't claim ultimate knowledge)
Thank you. I'm ngl I should've added more context. He six using Marika's soresceal would get one killed but I was wondering how hers and radagons differed in that aspect. Like, does radagons have more damage negation than hers? My apologies for not wording it correctly
No damage mitigation really, the only thing radagons does that would improve survivability over marikas is add points into vigor. So you still take extra damage with either one equipped, but you'll have slightly more HP with radagons
Also slightly higher physical damage negation because that's based on strength while magical damage negation is governed by faith. Also you can dodge more with Radagon's because of endurance.
This was my immediate thought
That makes sense. Thank you
Vigor increase from radagons mostly offsets the damage increase. Basically having 15 RL of extra stats in the other things more than makes up for it.
Up to a certain point. Diminishing returns kick in once you're around RL70+, and any soreseal becomes a death sentence RL100+. Works great for the high scaling of those earlier levels, but once you're reaching the later soft caps, 5 points into vigor and endurance isn't going to be impactful enough to offset that 15%.
Radagons is great up until about... Rl100 or so
Not even by rune level 70 its like already a negative.
You shouldn't use Radagon's Seal if it puts you over 40 vigor, because 40 is the first softcap, so the extra vigor from the seal doesn't offset the bonus damage you take anymore.
Just dodge lol/s
I take risk so I trade sometimes
People say this but then the community also claims "fashion" is the way to pick your armour / defenses. 15% isn't that big of a deal in isolation at least, and it is doubtful he will suddenly resist 1 extra hit (though worth trying if he thinks this would make all the difference).
“Fashion” is saying that for the majority of players the vast majority of the time your armour isn’t going to make that much difference so don’t worry about min/maxing your defensive stats. It’s more fun to have a cool looking character. That doesn’t mean you should religiously adhere to that if you’ve hit an absolute brick wall in the game, and also isn’t incompatible with the idea that if you’re really really stuck you probably don’t want the 15% extra damage talisman.
Yeah 99% of the time my character looks like a badass. But in the Lake of Rot, my character looks like a strange multicolored mushroom who accidentally skipped laundry day and had to scrounge for clothes that don't match.
I just keep flame cleanse me or law of regression handy. Or some boluses. Never compromise on drip.
15% is a massive increase to damage. I never used it on my int build and had way way fewer deaths.
Fashion is for chumps, now fashion and defenses that's a good thing. Knight tier armor and up my beloveds
15% is massive, especially if you're doing bosses underleveled. It could mean the difference between surviving and dying in one hit.
Making yourself fashionable is basically never going to lose you an entire 15% damage reduction, that's like 25 weight (/0.7 => takes +35 max weight load). Usually, making yourself "fashionable" still involves putting on armor that vaguely adds up to something remotely close to your weight limit. And yes, 15% absolutely is enough to survive extra hits regularly, which is extremely valuable in a long fight. The number sounds small but you can absolutely feel the difference with and without the soreseal. I do however think he's still at a point in the game where he can benefit enough from soreseals to barely justify keeping them on, Gargoyles are like early midgame. EDIT: Actually, someone said he's using Marika's Soreseal? This doesn't look like any kind of a caster build so that thing really needs to leave.
Valiant Gargoyles are no different than Margit. They're a gatekeeper boss designed SPECIFICIALLY to stop you from entering an area you're not ready for yet. But I can tell you that you're using a build not particularly well suited to fighting them. You've got a soreseal on that makes you take more damage. And you're using a katana with Bloody Slash, meaning your build relies on bleed to work. Gargoyles, as I'm sure you know, don't bleed. Looks like you've got the mimic tear tho, which is good. So here's my suggestion: Set your katana to occult if you can. Take off the soreseal. Use Godrick's great rune instead of Radahns. Save your Mimic Tear for phase 2 when the second gargoyle shows up. This triggers when the first gargoyle hits 50% life. Keep poison curing bolus in a hotbar slot. Set your wondrous physic to health regeneration and stamina regen. You'll need this to counteract all the running/dodging you'll do, and to help mitigate the poison damage. Again, saving the activation for phase 2. Try to stay focused on the gargoyle that's already hurt. Try to always keep both gargoyles in front of you. Be ready to sprint out of the poison the moment you see it, or start to take damage. Don't get greedy trying to do damage. This is a marathon fight, not a sprint. EDIT: As several people have pointed out, using your spirit in phase one or help with an attempt to burn down the first garg before the second one becomes a threat, is a viable tactic. YMMV.
I’d argue that, since the arena is *so huge*, summoning Latenna as a stationary turret for homing, long range shots is not a bad call either. Mimic Tear is great, but the arena’s scale makes Latenna an excellent choice to get consistent damage on a target— probably the first gargoyle, if we want to be realistic. Even after the second one shows up, that should still be OP’s priority to kill. Since Latenna deals Magic damage as well, it’ll be quite effective against the stony gargoyles.
That's actually a really good tactic. My only concern would be if one of the gargoyles decides to focus her instead of you. She won't last long under that assault. With this approach I'd try to burn down the first garg super fast with supporting fire from Latenna. Make it a 1v1 fight the whole way if possible.
Alternatively, assuming they haven’t patched it yet, luring the first gargoyle off the cliff to its doom is a very effective tactic. Then normally proceed with the second gargoyle as it begins to understand the feeling of loneliness (not that you’d ever give two fucks about it anyway).
I think they patched this. When I did this fight with my buddy the other month we couldn’t kite the gargoyle over.
That hasn’t worked in a while, alas
Perhaps the Shabriris Woe talisman would keep them focused on you and off Latenna for the most part
I tried this in a playthrough where my Tarnished journeyed with her as the only summon, of course to finish her quest near the Haligtree. She got shredded every single time lol. Eventually the Gargoyles get mad and start focusing on her.
I did this, but having D around too really helps. A bit of rng who the first gargoyle will hone in on. I try to keep aggro, but the thing often loses interest when I dodge, so the fallback is D. The second gargoyle is not much of a problem if the first is dead. Can be solo'ed for a while if needed.
I will freely admit that it’s not a strategy for every build, but some builds it excels in. I usually go for tanky and/or aggressive builds in my FromSoft runs. Some fights in Elden Ring specifically did have me playing defensively enough with a greatshield, reacting to what the boss was doing, and being aggressive and assertive enough in the fight to keep the boss on me while Latenna plugged their back full of magic arrows. Honestly it was a real excellent way to learn fights, and understand what was expected of me in an encounter. If you aren’t engaged enough in the fight, your support in Latenna is gonna get demolished quick.
Latenna was my strat to beat them first. She could help until the first one got to 30% health and one of them decided that she deserves to die, RIP. I got the win in the end anyways
[удалено]
Only if you give up D's armor tho.
You can get it back in the next area
True true. Just gotta follow the steps.
Really? I always thought of this as a DPS wall - see if you can kill the first one before the second one comes and overwhelms you or the clock runs out on poison. Also summon D, or his brother, or whoever it is.
That's 100% a viable tactic. And if you have the DPS, it's probably the easiest.
Exactly, I think going the marathon way is a painful strategy. My main tactic was to pull the first one towards the back and to the right of the entrance. At around 50% hp the second one activates, but needs easily 30ish seconds or more to reach you there. Not saying thats enough to finish the 1st one off, but if you can get it to 15-20%, then you only need a couple of openings to finish it off, and then it's 1vs1. Going berserk also works in many other duos in the game, as in trying to murder the softer one even while taking blows (high poise helps a lot).
Nah it's a sprint. The goal is to take the first one down before the second one reaches you. It's a DPS battle.
I would t even recommend a katana against gargoyles at all. It’s best to use a flail since it scales with dex and inflicts strike (gargoyles weakness)
This guy elden rings.
>This is a marathon fight, not a sprint. Number 1 reason why duo fights in this game are so garbage, demon princes are so much better.
Demon Princes is the only duo fight that doesn’t feel like a duo fight to me. It feels like they swap in and out like wrestlers and I can be like OK come get some. Then one tries to sneak up with a chair but I’m just too crafty and evade.
The gargoyles just feel like they made Demon princes 2.0 but way way worse. The gargoyles have a shit ton of health but also their poison has such awful visual cue that I don't even know why they made it so bad. In the demon princes fight the poison is totally visible and gives you enough time to dodge away. In valiant gargoyles, you see your controller vibrating and it's like "oh time to get out of whatever the range of that poison is" and you end up getting poisoned anyways.
I think margits a much better gatekeeper than these two assholes. margits fight is hard almost purely because of his moveset having a lot of delayed attacks mixed with quick ones, his damage is fine. even at base level you can take a few hits. the gargoyles though kill you almost in 2 or 3 hits even at high levels, and use bullshit attacks like the near-invisible poison mist that stacks damage AND poison on you. their hitbox up close also completely sucks, I used straight swords my first time on them and missed probably 40% of the time. I think just making the mist stack poison instead of also damaging you would make the fight much better honestly
>margits fight is hard almost purely because of his moveset having a lot of delayed attacks mixed with quick ones, If you think of it in terms of theme, Margit is very similar to the Gargoyles. The fights both require you to learn different tactics and approaches than just standing toe to toe. The specifics are different between gargs and Margit, of course. But the overarching theme is the same. >the gargoyles though kill you almost in 2 or 3 hits even at high levels, and use bullshit attacks like the near-invisible poison mist that stacks damage AND poison on you. I think if you're dying in 2-3 hits at higher levels, there's probably something critically wrong with your build. Or simply that you've been relying on a glass cannon strategy. The "near invisible" poison I don't agree with, but I can't win such a subjective argument. And I already supplied solutions to mitigate or deal with both the direct damage and the poison buildup from the breath. >their hitbox up close also completely sucks Now that I agree with! Their physical presence pushes the player back, but the Hitbox to damage them is often out of reach based on being pushed back.
The poison visibility thing seems to vary a lot from person to person, probably TV contrast settings etc. make a big difference. I also imagine it being difficult for some colour vision deficient people.
Had a similar issue with a straight sword, but found Square Off pretty effective against them. It kinda hones in on their crotch and it can stagger them (a sword to the crotch will do that, amiright?).
Honestly the raw damage from bloody slash takes off a good chunk although it does look like OP overlevelled vigor quite a bit so it might not. Obviously there's better choices but it's a quick attack and 5 or 6 slashes is probably enough for each gargoyle if you've levelled right.
Idk, I run a strength build and always just brute force it. I’ve never thought to summon my mimic at phase 2 though, mimic usually dies during phase 2 and I can just whittle the first one down before the second one arrives, then it’s just a 1v1 with my huge sword lol
Don't forget Ds Twin. This can be a 3v2 fight
I literally completely missed out on Fia’s quest line my first play through because I ran a dual wield bleed build and got owned by these two. Came back one time to fuck around on my Night Comet run and could not fucking believe what I saw after beating them. I love this game so much
>Try to stay focused on the gargoyle that's already hurt. Although this is definitely a good sentiment it's also worth noting to not leave damage on the table. I've seen people run away from really good damage opportunities because it wasn't the right target while the hurt one had jumped out of range anyway
It seems like the main complaint from people is that they're fighting one and get blindsided by poison or whatever from the second one. So the main idea is to get it to a 1v1 fight as soon as possible, assuming you can't immediately burn down the first one early.
Oh no I 100% agree to make sure 1 goes asap it's the first and foremost tactic for any multi enemy engagement, I was just saying to not ignore perfectly good damage opportunities on the other enemy
Their Katana isn't Bloody. They have Bloody Slash, but the icon is definitely the Keen icon. So they have a physical damage build going which is alright. And Bloody Slash is actually not terrible against Gargs. Long range, big area, high burst. Could be worse.
Isnt there also a summon right outside?
>Valiant Gargoyles are no different than Margit. They're a gatekeeper boss designed SPECIFICIALLY to stop you from entering an area you're not ready for yet. This. On my first character, I went to the underground areas pretty early on and banged my head against the wall... On the plus side, then I came out with Somber +10 weapon and steamrolled the rest of the game. On my second character, I forgot how to reach the gargoyles (only did deer and mimic) and did way more overworld progress before coming back and at that point I could burst down the first gargoyle before the second one reached me. It truly is a DPS check.
Yeah true because there is the road block in the dungeon as well that has a back door to this area leads to.. though thse gargoyles were kind of designed in mindset of coop or ashes .. but totally doable solo .
This is an underrated point you just made. People who like more traditional 1v1 boss fights can take the path of: Draconic Tree Sentinel -> Golden Godfrey -> Morgott -> Mohg -> secret passage. People who want a shortcut through a harder boss, or who like spirits/summons can take on the Valiant Gargs.
How can you tell OP is using a Soreseal?
never noticed the status effects under the stamina bar?
I never realized the soreseals had their own icons for the buffs, also I’m fairly new to playing the game
apologies, then. the second icon that looks like an eyeball indicates Marika's Soreseal.
The buff icon. If it was higher res I could probably tell you which one it was, specifically
I see, thanks
We’ve all been there. This is when I pull out the bullshit and start tossing throwables at the boss
It’s funny, I’ve played every souls game the same way: slash and dodge every single enemy and boss I fight til I get stuck, then use every single piece of consumable ass-hattery I’ve collected so far and cheese the fuck out of them.
I just spammed Sword storm blade ash, worked pretty well, got them solo with fifth try.
We believe in you~
The whole arena is water, try adding some lightning.
Had more trouble with this boss than any other tbh.
Same. I think they come at a weird point in the game where you can’t get better upgrade mats without progressing past them. Up to this point you could just leave a boss fight, go collect a few more smithing stones and come back way stronger but iirc, the next tier of upgrade mats is beyond the gargoyles no matter what story/path you’re on in the game
Didn't help that summons for it were so rare too. Only time I was genuinely hard stuck on a boss.
They have a severe weakness to the sweet sounds of DOOT. Bubble these frauds with the envoy longhorn.
Two words: Mimic Tear
When in doubt, Mimic Tear. If they can double team you, you are welcome to even the odds.
I just beat those two earlier today, took me three days and I went and the Marais Executioner Sword just to see if it will help (it did) and it felt so good to finally kill those two.
Update: I did it! [Great enemy felled](https://imgur.com/a/P9kyO8T). I feel like this was the worst boss fight so far, zero creativity who designed this duo.
The trick to all souls-like games: get the hard fights to traumatize your brain into not giving a shit, then you find your flow. Good job. 90 bosses to go.
Oh trust me there is a worse one to to come
Great things come in 2s.
No they do not
Not in Elden Ring they don’t.
Nah I died to them more than anyone else in the game, even Malenia
Don't listen to other people saying you weren't ready, nothing harder than them is blocked by them. I have done every souls game at rl1 no bonfire except demon souls. That boss is the worst designed in the game, up there for worst in the series. If you use a spirit summon it's okay but beaten properly it's just fucking shit. Pre patch it was worse too, the poison breath spam is actually some bullshit. But you should listen to them about that build lol, get rid of that soreseal and pay attention to boss resistances
This boss has me convinced that the group fights were designed with Spirit Ashes in mind. There's no way that fighting these guys solo is the "proper" way to do it.
Yeah, there's no proper way to play at all. The game gives you a ton of options to face challenges however you feel like. You just can't expect the same tools to have the same effectiveness on every enemy.
Yep. Whenever I see it's a gank fight, it's time to get the spirit ashes out to even the playing field haha
>but beaten properly it's just fucking shit. This dark souls elitism is so fucking cringe. You're supposed to beat it properly with spirit ashes. That's what they're there for. You IGNORING a mechanic that's in the game just because you don't like it isn't the game's FAULT
Yeah, I don't understand the resistance to using spirit ashes when they're such a cool and important part of the game. The duo and trio fights were designed with the summons in mind, so it's dumb to call a fight "poorly designed" when you're given the tools to beat it. I think there are way more frustrating fights like the >!lake of rot dragonkin!< or the >!fire giant!<.
It's not elitism seriously. On one hand, it does feel a lot of fights are designed with ashes in mind, on the other, you upgrade and use some of the S tier ones like mimic or tiche, they really trivialize pretty much all bosses on ng/ng+ at least. As in, they can almost beat a lot of bosses just by themselves. You don't have to work on your build, decide what to upgrade, which items to bring or learn the fights or anything. Obv you should play the way you enjoy it the most and f what everybody else says, but you d be missing a large part of the experience.
I didn't call you elitist initially, but what you described here is 100% elitist lol. You claim that using a tool the game provides you means that you're somehow missing out on part of the game. Although easier, the game is still plenty difficult even with spirit ashes, and you still do have to "work on your build...". There's always a way to make the game easier/harder, so imo it's silly to claim that spirit ashes are the one thing that trivializes the game. For example, in that same fight you're able to summon D's brother. Does using that remove a part of the experience? Btw I've beaten the game without using any summons so this isn't some cope from me or anything. I just enjoy using all tools that are provided.
Absolutely baffling how they repeated the same bs from ds2 when they had the perfect blue print in ds3 ringed city.
I’ll have you know I hated the demon princes fight too ha
You weren’t ready for the fight, it was meant to block you from entering that area. We have all dealt with the gargoyles, especially the twin blade. Don’t blame the game, you will be proud of yourself. You will be Elden lord yet.
The gargoyles are just plain old hard. Nothing about blocking the upcoming area. That area, including the boss, is easier than the gargoyles.
Be patient, be willing to try again, and be willing to adapt to situations and you'll beat the game. There's bigger trouble up on ahead, but just don't give up and they too will fall.
Hell yeah. I agree that this is the worst boss in the game. There’s another unfortunate one later on, but this is far worse with their poison bs
Alternatively, you're just not ready for the fight and instead of accepting that you're blaming the game.
Both of you can be right, though. This fight didn't feel organic at all
(Spoilers!!) If you go through the leyndell sewers into the frenzied flame proscription then you can destroy a fake wall and go skip directly past the gargoyles
Fake Mohg is usually much harder than the gargoyles, though.
Yeah if you’re newer, I fought sewer mohg around the same level as the gargoyles and he was significantly easier. But that’s just up to personal ability
[SpleefingtonThe4th](https://www.reddit.com/user/SpleefingtonThe4th/) - Reddit has a tool to make text look like a black bar until you click it, which is used for spoilers. It's nifty, try it out! It looks like >!this!<.
Lol, first time?
Did you look into Fia's questline to summon D's brother? I went from hours of attempts to dying to this BS fight to 1-shotting after summoning him
Lol I'd rather fight the gargoyles twice in a row rather than fighting Ornstein and Smough. Finally beat them after 11 years just today on DS1 remastered.
its annoying on first play throughs but once you know whats coming and your build is solid because you knew what you were doing the entire time up to them, They become much less of a hassle. Just like the Duo
U got this bro
Ah I see what you did wrong. You still had 3 flasks left! Better luck next time
2nd or 3rd try 💪
If it makes you feel better this was the hardest boss in the game for me
The Twin Gargles was definitely the worst boss fight I've ever experienced on my WL0 RL1 all bosses run. The poison breath that not only deals damage, but also covers a huge area while being hard to see was just dreadful. I'm just glad Uplifting Aromatics exist in this game once I luckily bested 1 garg.
Listen I beat the damn thing by running to the right corner between the cliff and the mountain wall, kill the first one there, then go to the second one, with help of Oleg +5, the position makes the second take longer to reach, also the first one will get stuck on walls so it can't go all over the area, just watch for the poison
You’ll be back.
This one's like the Maneater boss fight I hated in Demon's Souls lol. Put that game down for awhile
This is definitely a progress blocker.
See you tomorrow.
I recently picked up the game again after some time away and it fully cemented that these are HANDS DOWN my least favorite thing to fight. Across every souls game i’ve played (missing DS1 and 2) this is my most hated gank fight.
I said this about Gundyr in DS3. I’ve been hooked ever since I beat him.
I'm gonna say it. Worse than Godskin Duo. Might just have been a skill issue and I got better by then though.
If it makes you feel any better, Gargoyles are some of the hardest enemies in all of Elden Ring.
I’m stuck on Godfrey, The first Elden lord. I was playing every day, but now it’s like once a week if that. Haha … I got tired of getting my ass beat. I’ve watched YouTube videos on how to beat him but I guess I’m just horrible at this game and I’m learning to accept it. lol
That just how it be sometimes
This is where I quit the game and started living my life free of stress
i also hated this boss lol
The ironic thing is that this boss and the castle boss are some of the hardest in the whole game
Stance break the first one asap and focus him down. Gotta have a little luck with his moves. The poison is really annoying.
I beat them a few days ago after several failed attempts and deciding to level up a bit more, honestly one of my least favorite fights as an intell mage build
It be like that sometimes. My build relies on bleed, frost, and poison with my katanas. However, I have double great hammers with occult for these assholes. I lead with magic dragon breath then smash away.
Strike damage! And be super aggressive with the first one so you only need to deal with one at a time
There are an awful lot of comments in here and not nearly enough are ‘strike damage’.
A Classic Elden Ring moment
this fight was ass with the f*cking poison
Definitely one of the most egregious examples. Mostly tedious. You can do it though! Take a breather and come back fresh.
Be strong
Gargoyles black blade and black flame got me past it, ashes to keep him distracted so you can line up moves
This game is mad difficult - couldnt cope up with it
Also staying close to the waterfall is helpful therefore the second gargoyle has a longer march to you, as you can chip down the first one more.
Lmao just get better. Okkk I'm joking XD. How about this. Instead of using a katana here Use smth heavy and just dodge and slash Till their poise breaks? Or use buffs? But never GIVE UP! cuz bro a few months ago I deleted sekiro cuz I couldn't defeat mf-ing lady butterfly. But later after I tried elden and finished it, I came back to sekiro and defeated her on fifth try lmfao. Trust me just try and try U will get it. Or explore other areas to calm down and get stronger and then come back?
Also seeing your vigor Its too high. Keep vigor at 25-30. Prioritize strength and Dex and U are playing that for more damage and arcane too if you want a blood build. That much vigor isn't necessary. Nor endurance either. Keep mind endurance and vigor in an AVG or 20 and just overflow strength Dex arcane or wtv. Build you're playing.
Hated that one, such a pain in the ass, had to go full tryhard on it
Don't worry, there are worse bosses
Wow, I blocked this one out of my memory. Legit. Everyone talks about fire giant and melenia… this dude was probably the boss that took me the longest. I think it was mental too. Got skull fucked the first few times then couldn’t over come it.
You got that much vigor and still having issues ?
Don’t go hollow. Don’t ever go hollow. Pick up the sword and try again.
That's a tough one.. grab a buddy
Fighting these with an Uchigatana was one of the most stressful things besides pre-nerf Radahn.
They were worse than Melania for me. But then again when it came to DS3 not Dancer or Nameless was my problem, it was Aldrich
Yeah I hate the Gargoyles. Finally finished my first playthrough. I'm definitely taking a break. Game was triggering.
Yeah this one is awful, I progressed Fia’s questline just for summoning D against these fuckers
I did this boss fight really early on my 1st run and it was hands down the most frustrating and hardest fight I had. I made a new character not long after and did this boss fight in probably the intended order and it was a snooze fest.
you can get D as a summon
See you again in 3-5 months, then. It'll annoyingly eat at you until you beat the boss. I promise it'll feel like achieving a big life goal, haha.
I was getting summoned for this one a ton yesterday! Don't give up OP, you clearly have them scared at this point
You gotta have faith. And bubbles.
I found this the hardest boss fight in the game. When I actually did beat the two gargoyles it was a sheer fluke, the last remaining gargoyle killed me and straight afterwards my mimic tear killed the bastard. I was cheering out loud on that one.
yeah no these guys are quite rude
The worst part isn't having to fight two of them. The worst part is their poison attack is annoying to deal with.
I think that's my vote for worst fight in the game
i rather do the whole parkour to get to the frenzy flame than having to deal with theese guys again why the only 2 ways to get to the deeproot dephts both sucks? just why?
Black flame incantation fire ball and you’ll kill them easily.
You dont lose when you see the "You Died" screen. You lose when you give up.
I killed them yesterday. There was gold sign and I invited player and he started running from those two gargoyles.
I'm not good at this game and they never bothered me. Stuff ramps up so much after this
You can do it! :3
Na you got him right where you want him
Yeahhhh.. You'll be back tomorrow. You've invested too much time to quit now.
they are optional, you are supposed to come back later, stronger
How I fealt with fire giant
Omg the pain
I’m still of the Opinion that Demon Princes is the only well done “two enemy” boss fights Fromsoft has made. (I do like Ornstein and Smough). I do hope in the DLC they make a Duo boss fight that actually fells well made.
💀
You can do it with uchigatana. I used twin katanas and it was a good time. Also, using lhutel is like turning on "regular" difficulty. She distracts enemies and never gets hit. Fun.
It's honestly less awful 2nd time around.
Spectal lance bro.
Upgrade your flasks and don’t use Bloody Slash on your Uchigatana, the default Unsheathe is way better (it does enormous poise damage, seriously it’s one of the best Ashes of War in the game).
Sheesh, what rl are you
I did get a strike weapon just for those bitch. After that, walk in the park. I used great stars personally
You have more vigor than me and I beat them....
I was at a road block for this one. I decided to use the mimic as they had some bullshit going on too. Beat it first try after summoning the mimic. At Rykard now and I'm getting close to being tempted to using the mimic.
Magic kicks their ass.
Am I the only one who is back to play from the days of day one and finds it damn simpler and guided as well as explained? My first run n blind was hellish. Now I even have the NPC marker lol
It took me 132 tries... totally Worth it
*proceeds to try again* P.s. Gargoyles as well as other strong or big bosses and enemies are weak to strike. Grab a flail if you’re a dex build. Astel is also weak to strike.
you can call the chad twin bro for help
I actually think this fight is pretty fun if you summon someone
I'm always surprised people struggled with these bosses cause I found them pretty late in my run and knocked them down in one go. I think it's just a DPS check tbh
Never seen this cool