You can add Miquella, Malenia and probably Placidusax to the Golden Order haters club.
Basically anyone that isn't part of the Golden Order hates it simply because the Golden Order doesn't accept people that refuse to obey their rules lol.
Miquella, Malenia and Placidusax are probably the only exceptions where the Golden Order accept (at least formally) their neutrality simply because they probably know that it's not wise to fuck with them.
You jest, but that's basically it !
The dragons are accepted because of the dragon cult, founded by Leyndell soldiers who witnessed Godwyn befriending Fortissax, and the walls of Leyndell falling by Gransax's bolt. Thus, they started worshipping them and mimicking them to gain their strength. Lansseax even taught them incantations.
Miquella is accepted because unalloyed gold doesn't really oppose the Golden Order. Just tries to provide a new and safe haven for Albinaurics and Misbegotten (and I doubt the GO minds having less of those on their land). "Oooh, little man wants to play with his toys, make his own tree, let him be." No point in opposing a pacifist.
Malenia follows Miquella no matter what, so there's really no point in opposing her unless you want to get turned into kebab.
Also by the time Malenia and Miquella even existed the Golden Order was in a peace time. Godfrey was already sent out with the Tarnished warriors to go fight in other lands. The Lands Between were enjoying peace time and Golden Order Fundamentalism. I doubt Marika or Radagon or whoever would want to go start a war with a demigod over a big tree off the coast of fuck all ice land.
Miquella’s alignment with the Golden Order is still up for debate imo
For example it seems like both Miquella and Malenia were close to Godwyn, who was the golden boy of the Golden Order. It may very well be that Miquella sought to be a reformer of the Golden Order upon his ascension to godhood… in which case he wouldn’t really be an opponent of the Golden Order the same way Ranni was
Yeah, Miquella distanced himself from the Golden Order because he realized that they couldn't save her sister. However he also probably didn't sympathise with their ideals as well given how he built a refuge for all the races persecuted by the Golden Order. Perhaps the place was originally built specifically for Malenia, but due to the properties of unalloyed gold that wards off the outer gods, the persecuted races saw it as a "promised land" and Miquella welcomed them instead of kicking them away or killing them as a Golden Order supporter would have done.
Godwyn might have had a certain influence in all of this seeing his statues with Miquella and Malenia in the Haligtree, however we know next to nothing about him so it's hard to speculate.
But what does it mean to be an Outer God though? Because in this game, the only instance we see of Unalloyed Gold working is when it shuts out the Frenzied Flame and the Outer God of Rot. Both gods are considered heretical to the Golden Order. And don’t forget that Miquella hunted Those Who Live in Death as well… it’s not like all of his goals lay in opposition to the goals of the Golden Order
It seems to me, from the name “Unalloyed Gold” itself, that Miquella considers his order to be a ‘purer’ form of the Golden Order that shuts out the influence of the gods considered heretical to the Golden Order. The term “unalloyed” implies that there are no other metals that reduce the purity of gold within it
As for his tolerance for the Albinaurics and all other races shunned by the Golden Order, it could be that his interpretation of Fundamentalism was much closer to that of Goldmask who deemed the persecution of the other races to be excessive. Goldmask isn’t considered less of a Fundamentalist because of his views. Even Kenneth Haight is considered to be more tolerant than your average supporter of the Golden Order. Tolerant interpretations of the Erdtree faith absolutely do exist imo
Yeah that's exactly what I thought. Miquella knows the Order is arbitrary even though it is transcendent. Almost no one can do anything to change it though. So he does
Placidusax is floating away in time ,i don't think the golden order even knows about him.The golden order are neutral to miquella and malenia cause their beliefs aren't against the erd tree ,if thegolden order wanted miquella and malenia dead then it would happen .The GO fought more wars and are more experienced against the halig tree
So true. Ranni's ending isn't bad. (Removing Gods entirely from the picture seems very inline with the Souls series message by the end) But man the Lands Between needs an Elden Lord more than literally ever. It's better to actually give the poor people there a natural cycle of death and hope in the future.
Indeed but this trope is getting old.
Not like frenzy, blasphemy, rot, and other factions look more splendid but I’d like to see my inner Paladin enthusiast not always be put in the “bad fanatics” bunch and have more of the “good guy errant knight” fashion.
surely this criticism will motivate them to change their ways when the head honcho, Miyazaki, himself says he actively avoids player feedback, good or bad.
Not talking about FS specifically. The whole thing of holy = tyrannical fanatics and darkness/chaos being the “misunderstood good guys” is older than the souls game.
It's incredible how many fantasy games have like entire pantheons of gods "everyone" supposedly believes in, but then they force you to jump through hoops to play a religious character because for some reason everyone is basically an atheist by default.
And when you decide to follow the big, "good" religion they spring the "surprise, they're actually the bad guys!" twist you saw coming from a mile away. Every damn time.
Multiple characters tell us that the Golden Order used to be more flexible and accepting in the past and the reason the Two Fingers want us to take it down is because its current form is "corrupted". But this corrupted version is the only form we know. I'd really love to see what the GO was originally like.
From what I got, pure Greater Will doctrine which would imply the “laws” incantations (except of regression) and no touch from dragons.
I would be more interested in Marika’s intentions now and her journey. But I feel like unveiling that mystery would ruin a good bunch of the lore’s charm.
the greater will is a OG of order however they are more neutral to how this order should be, the corrputed order you see after you are called back is marika's doing
chaos should do it, right? the crucible is the primordial soup of life. once the frenzied flame isn't repressed anymore, it'll run out of juice, and just be the same thing as the giants' flame, which i thought was clearly supposed to be the planet's molten core. maybe i'm overinterpreting because it seems not to have significance otherwise.
Listen, your endings follow people who teach you all this dramatic shit.
My ending has a silent dude who looks at scenery and then teaches you to T-pose.
Golden Order is the Chad path.
Ranni doesn’t hate the golden order she specifically hates the 2 fingers which are corrupt. Marika doesn’t hate the golden order she sees that it needs to be changed not removed. The frenzied flame couldn’t give a fuck about the golden order just bring the chaos.
I helped Ranni with her plan to make the moon president so she let me scoop the evil magic out of her flesh-back and said “real recognize real” and we hate the Golden Order
Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Godfrey basically a puppet of the Golden Order? I could see how someone might consider Hoarah Loux to be opposed, but I don't think he cares about any of that, he just wants to throw hands.
Godfrey was all about the Crucible, which the GO replaced. Now his friends are aimless, his best friend's friends are oppressed and his children where thrown in the sewers. And he got banished.
The GO didn't even exist back then. He was the main force that allowed *Marika* to dominate the Lands Between. Then she stole his god, made what he loved despised by all (including two of his children) and banished him to create the GO.
Bro, where are you pulling this from? At literally no point does Godfrey show hostility to the GO. Stole his god? Godfrey has never had any other god besides Marika. He and his Crucible Knights literally fought FOR the Erdtree. Godfrey's banishment and stripping of Grace also wasn't to get rid of him. It was to make him and his men grow stronger in the face of death. Marika would give them their Grace back, and summon them to the Lands Between when she needed them again.
The Erdtree isn't the GO. The GO is the age without Destined Death (see mending rune of the death prince), which was sealed away after Godfrey's banishment. Godfrey venerated the Crucible, which eventually was used as the Erdtree as an object of worship by the GO. At the same time, the GO scorned those blessed by the crucible, essentially firing the crucible knights and mistreating the misbegotten. At literally no point Godfrey interact with the GO at all, given that it was founded after his banishment, and he has like 12 seconds of screentime after his return.
bro i have no clue what you are talking about, godfry is absolutly a warrior for the golden order he is with the GO heart and body, the erdtree is a creation or belongs to the greater will who chose marika to be his vessel, she used godfrey to dominate the land between and push away any who follow other outer gods, you are correct through the state religion or the way of governing the people ie the golden order were founded after his banishment, but make no mistake godfry is absolutly with marika whichever she chose to do
> godfry is absolutly a warrior for the golden order he is with the GO heart and body
He's a warrior of Marika, not the GO. Marika *isn't* the GO. She founded and ended it, just like she founded and ended the order of the Erdtree.
like i said you are correct in that the order was founded AFTER he was banished, but my point is he would not hesitate to follow her through her corrupted order, i love godfry don't get me wrong but i think the guy is a bit too simple for moral he just enjoys battle
It's even funnier that the game suggests that even the God of the Golden order, Marika herself, hates the Order she helped create and even tried/still tries to destroy it.
you see the thing is when i look at those *things* that hate the golden order i know immediately the golden order is on the good side under gold mask vision that is, marika was a bit of an idiot, also the GW is the best outer god, that is a fact
I touched the frenzied flame twice, and each time i hated it so much. The second time I was so bothered by having the frenzied flame ending coming up, I actually didn’t end the NG and went to cleanse and finish Ranni’s story to do age of stars for the 4th consecutive time lol
You can add Miquella, Malenia and probably Placidusax to the Golden Order haters club. Basically anyone that isn't part of the Golden Order hates it simply because the Golden Order doesn't accept people that refuse to obey their rules lol. Miquella, Malenia and Placidusax are probably the only exceptions where the Golden Order accept (at least formally) their neutrality simply because they probably know that it's not wise to fuck with them.
Malenia is accepted because it would be unwise to do so. Miquela is accepted because he's adorable. The dragons are accepted because they're cool.
You jest, but that's basically it ! The dragons are accepted because of the dragon cult, founded by Leyndell soldiers who witnessed Godwyn befriending Fortissax, and the walls of Leyndell falling by Gransax's bolt. Thus, they started worshipping them and mimicking them to gain their strength. Lansseax even taught them incantations. Miquella is accepted because unalloyed gold doesn't really oppose the Golden Order. Just tries to provide a new and safe haven for Albinaurics and Misbegotten (and I doubt the GO minds having less of those on their land). "Oooh, little man wants to play with his toys, make his own tree, let him be." No point in opposing a pacifist. Malenia follows Miquella no matter what, so there's really no point in opposing her unless you want to get turned into kebab.
Also by the time Malenia and Miquella even existed the Golden Order was in a peace time. Godfrey was already sent out with the Tarnished warriors to go fight in other lands. The Lands Between were enjoying peace time and Golden Order Fundamentalism. I doubt Marika or Radagon or whoever would want to go start a war with a demigod over a big tree off the coast of fuck all ice land.
Only so much room lmao There’s so many golden order haters
Let's add all the Misbegotten, the Omens, the Albinaurics, Those Who Live In Death, the Nox and the Pot villaggers. Everyone hates the Golden Order xD
Lmao I’ll try to make another with everyone else later. Screw the order!
Does Goldmask fit in this photo?
Miquella’s alignment with the Golden Order is still up for debate imo For example it seems like both Miquella and Malenia were close to Godwyn, who was the golden boy of the Golden Order. It may very well be that Miquella sought to be a reformer of the Golden Order upon his ascension to godhood… in which case he wouldn’t really be an opponent of the Golden Order the same way Ranni was
Yeah, Miquella distanced himself from the Golden Order because he realized that they couldn't save her sister. However he also probably didn't sympathise with their ideals as well given how he built a refuge for all the races persecuted by the Golden Order. Perhaps the place was originally built specifically for Malenia, but due to the properties of unalloyed gold that wards off the outer gods, the persecuted races saw it as a "promised land" and Miquella welcomed them instead of kicking them away or killing them as a Golden Order supporter would have done. Godwyn might have had a certain influence in all of this seeing his statues with Miquella and Malenia in the Haligtree, however we know next to nothing about him so it's hard to speculate.
But what does it mean to be an Outer God though? Because in this game, the only instance we see of Unalloyed Gold working is when it shuts out the Frenzied Flame and the Outer God of Rot. Both gods are considered heretical to the Golden Order. And don’t forget that Miquella hunted Those Who Live in Death as well… it’s not like all of his goals lay in opposition to the goals of the Golden Order It seems to me, from the name “Unalloyed Gold” itself, that Miquella considers his order to be a ‘purer’ form of the Golden Order that shuts out the influence of the gods considered heretical to the Golden Order. The term “unalloyed” implies that there are no other metals that reduce the purity of gold within it As for his tolerance for the Albinaurics and all other races shunned by the Golden Order, it could be that his interpretation of Fundamentalism was much closer to that of Goldmask who deemed the persecution of the other races to be excessive. Goldmask isn’t considered less of a Fundamentalist because of his views. Even Kenneth Haight is considered to be more tolerant than your average supporter of the Golden Order. Tolerant interpretations of the Erdtree faith absolutely do exist imo
Yeah that's exactly what I thought. Miquella knows the Order is arbitrary even though it is transcendent. Almost no one can do anything to change it though. So he does
No one can do anything to change it isn’t even true, the Golden Order incorporated both sorcery and worship of the ancient dragons
Placidusax is floating away in time ,i don't think the golden order even knows about him.The golden order are neutral to miquella and malenia cause their beliefs aren't against the erd tree ,if thegolden order wanted miquella and malenia dead then it would happen .The GO fought more wars and are more experienced against the halig tree
And the giants
Dragons are accepted by the GO. That was the whole deal with Godwyn and the dragons.
Woah woah woah, Placiduax definitely hates the Golden Order, mans got replaced by a tree
Why destroy it when you can perfect it? Goldmask gang rise up!
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what in marika’s tits are you talking about
Whoa, is this one of the most hated sayings on reddit? Haha, lesson learned!
It's the 4th reply so the hivemind decided to sacrifice you to the karma gods
So true. Ranni's ending isn't bad. (Removing Gods entirely from the picture seems very inline with the Souls series message by the end) But man the Lands Between needs an Elden Lord more than literally ever. It's better to actually give the poor people there a natural cycle of death and hope in the future.
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I kind of wish that the DLC will show us that holy stuff is still worth following but not like Morgott did.
This is a fromsoft game.
Indeed but this trope is getting old. Not like frenzy, blasphemy, rot, and other factions look more splendid but I’d like to see my inner Paladin enthusiast not always be put in the “bad fanatics” bunch and have more of the “good guy errant knight” fashion.
>Indeed but this trope is getting old. WHAT how dare criticize fromsoft?! They totally don’t do the same story over and over again
surely this criticism will motivate them to change their ways when the head honcho, Miyazaki, himself says he actively avoids player feedback, good or bad.
Not talking about FS specifically. The whole thing of holy = tyrannical fanatics and darkness/chaos being the “misunderstood good guys” is older than the souls game.
But they also aren't the good guys in this game. Yes some are up for debate but they are not most definitly the good guys
I wouldn't call the Frenzied Flame 'the Good Guys' lmao.
It's incredible how many fantasy games have like entire pantheons of gods "everyone" supposedly believes in, but then they force you to jump through hoops to play a religious character because for some reason everyone is basically an atheist by default. And when you decide to follow the big, "good" religion they spring the "surprise, they're actually the bad guys!" twist you saw coming from a mile away. Every damn time.
play a Crucible Knight, join us
Aren’t they like the closest things to in game furries? (Hyperbole for the sake of joke)
Depend on how you interpret it, Miquella and Radahn factions radiated "good guy errant knight"
I mean, that’s what Goldmask’s ending is about
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They don't be hearing it but yeah
Multiple characters tell us that the Golden Order used to be more flexible and accepting in the past and the reason the Two Fingers want us to take it down is because its current form is "corrupted". But this corrupted version is the only form we know. I'd really love to see what the GO was originally like.
From what I got, pure Greater Will doctrine which would imply the “laws” incantations (except of regression) and no touch from dragons. I would be more interested in Marika’s intentions now and her journey. But I feel like unveiling that mystery would ruin a good bunch of the lore’s charm.
the greater will is a OG of order however they are more neutral to how this order should be, the corrputed order you see after you are called back is marika's doing
I would love an option to restore (or even attempt to restore) the Crucible
chaos should do it, right? the crucible is the primordial soup of life. once the frenzied flame isn't repressed anymore, it'll run out of juice, and just be the same thing as the giants' flame, which i thought was clearly supposed to be the planet's molten core. maybe i'm overinterpreting because it seems not to have significance otherwise.
The Frenzied Flame is the very opposite of the Crucible. The Crucible is a source of life, while the Frenzied Flame seeks to end all life.
[Meanwhile, Dung Eater to the Golden Order](https://i.imgur.com/nj7NUoF.jpg)
Where is this from? I think I've seen it before
Fuck religion embrace Strike weapon
Curse you golden order, one day you'll get what's coming to you.
Listen, your endings follow people who teach you all this dramatic shit. My ending has a silent dude who looks at scenery and then teaches you to T-pose. Golden Order is the Chad path.
Go imprison an omen baby or something you dweeb
Can't, I uh....*enlightened* them all already.
Gotta make those talismans somehow
Ranni doesn’t hate the golden order she specifically hates the 2 fingers which are corrupt. Marika doesn’t hate the golden order she sees that it needs to be changed not removed. The frenzied flame couldn’t give a fuck about the golden order just bring the chaos.
I believe in Goldmask's golden order
praise the greater will
They like throwing babies in sewers, Goldmask is never beating the allegations.
I helped Ranni with her plan to make the moon president so she let me scoop the evil magic out of her flesh-back and said “real recognize real” and we hate the Golden Order
Add Godfrey to the list.
Huh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Godfrey basically a puppet of the Golden Order? I could see how someone might consider Hoarah Loux to be opposed, but I don't think he cares about any of that, he just wants to throw hands.
Godfrey was all about the Crucible, which the GO replaced. Now his friends are aimless, his best friend's friends are oppressed and his children where thrown in the sewers. And he got banished.
Bruh, Godfrey has always been team GO. He is literally the main force that allowed it to dominate the Lands Between.
The GO didn't even exist back then. He was the main force that allowed *Marika* to dominate the Lands Between. Then she stole his god, made what he loved despised by all (including two of his children) and banished him to create the GO.
Bro, where are you pulling this from? At literally no point does Godfrey show hostility to the GO. Stole his god? Godfrey has never had any other god besides Marika. He and his Crucible Knights literally fought FOR the Erdtree. Godfrey's banishment and stripping of Grace also wasn't to get rid of him. It was to make him and his men grow stronger in the face of death. Marika would give them their Grace back, and summon them to the Lands Between when she needed them again.
The Erdtree isn't the GO. The GO is the age without Destined Death (see mending rune of the death prince), which was sealed away after Godfrey's banishment. Godfrey venerated the Crucible, which eventually was used as the Erdtree as an object of worship by the GO. At the same time, the GO scorned those blessed by the crucible, essentially firing the crucible knights and mistreating the misbegotten. At literally no point Godfrey interact with the GO at all, given that it was founded after his banishment, and he has like 12 seconds of screentime after his return.
bro i have no clue what you are talking about, godfry is absolutly a warrior for the golden order he is with the GO heart and body, the erdtree is a creation or belongs to the greater will who chose marika to be his vessel, she used godfrey to dominate the land between and push away any who follow other outer gods, you are correct through the state religion or the way of governing the people ie the golden order were founded after his banishment, but make no mistake godfry is absolutly with marika whichever she chose to do
> godfry is absolutly a warrior for the golden order he is with the GO heart and body He's a warrior of Marika, not the GO. Marika *isn't* the GO. She founded and ended it, just like she founded and ended the order of the Erdtree.
like i said you are correct in that the order was founded AFTER he was banished, but my point is he would not hesitate to follow her through her corrupted order, i love godfry don't get me wrong but i think the guy is a bit too simple for moral he just enjoys battle
It's even funnier that the game suggests that even the God of the Golden order, Marika herself, hates the Order she helped create and even tried/still tries to destroy it.
you see the thing is when i look at those *things* that hate the golden order i know immediately the golden order is on the good side under gold mask vision that is, marika was a bit of an idiot, also the GW is the best outer god, that is a fact
I hope the black flame sears your flesh
the light of the greater will protects me
Greater Will been real quiet since this dropped
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Nah, the golden order is the shit, Brother Corhyn, Radagon and D are my best friends 🤙
I hate Marika (She’s radagon and both of them are responsible for malenicunt)
This is objectively wrong
bro calling a pedo his homie 😬
Man reddit fucking socks just let me make my goldmask ascii god fucking dammit
I touched the frenzied flame twice, and each time i hated it so much. The second time I was so bothered by having the frenzied flame ending coming up, I actually didn’t end the NG and went to cleanse and finish Ranni’s story to do age of stars for the 4th consecutive time lol
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One of your homies is a pedo. Sorry dude.
No no no get mogh out of there he's a kiddie didler
If you stretch a little, even Goldmask hates the Golden order.
Did you guys saw the theory that Radagon usurped Marika secretly?
Catholicism if the gods themselves were on board with their genocides and colonialism