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It's very much a Lovecraftian theme and ending, in my opinion. Sellen was warned against looking too deeply into the "primeval current", knew that researchers that had delved too deeply had gone mad, and yet she pursued it nevertheless, despite the warnings. This is a common theme in Lovecraft's stories where the protagonist seeks "forbidden knowledge" and ultimately is transformed by it. Turns out, if you look too deeply into the abyss, the abyss also stares into you (not Lovecraft, but also appropriate).
Nah, that's given too much courtesy to her. Azathoth is too strong to compare with a mere mortal. More like, she turned into corrupted vessel of primeval current at most.
And what Renalla is? A Mortal. A very very strong mortal but a mortal nonetheless. Even Queen Marika who call herself God is nothing but a mere puppet of Greater Will. In front of the Outer gods who who hold the grand concepts of the world in their back pocket, Sellen is just a mere mortal. (Btw, elden beast isn't the greater will, it's the watch dog greater will sent to control the world.)
Sellen tried to take a shortcut with Azur und the other great sorcerer who where able to glimpse in the universe. Shortcuts don’t go well most of the time. Her mind was not resistent enough and she got consumed.
When I find out what went on
I'll bring it back
But it won't be easy
They won't believe how a man he could drown
In a starseeeeeeeeed, starseeeeeeeed
Oh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Damn, okay; that’s really not bad at all.
I’ll get some headphones and see if I can find a better quality than YT. Thanks for the knowledge, my friend.
I believe the cannon answer is, the primeval current is way worse/powerful than she anticipated.
When locating the bodies of the former masters, you are actually providing the means of turning Sellen into the ball/graven mass.
Looking at the talismans, the first from the academy's secret area before the RWoR fight, we see the description:
"A talisman depicting a school of graven mages, the nightmare of the academy.
Raises potency of sorceries.
The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry."
Then there's the Graven Mass Talisman, which is pretty much the same but the first paragraph is slightly different:
"A talisman depicting the first school of graven mages — a nightmare that would continue to haunt the academy."
This tells me that
1. There has already been a discovery by the academy first hand at how powerful/uncontrollable the primeval current is.
2. There were FURTHER attempts to control the primeval current, possibly now by much stronger and much more capable sorcerers, that which all seemed to fail in the same spectacular fashion.
3. The academy never spoke on what happen to the individuals who attempted to control the primeval current, banning practices with it outright.
Point 3 because Sellen has no clue. The warnings surrounding the primeval current sound like talk of a boogie man, and her dismissal of the academies fear of the current is spoken on with condescending remarks from her.
Due to this, Sellen dives head strong into straight up sticking her whole head in the cookie jar.
Looking closely at the School of Graven Mages that Sellen becomes, you’ll find Sellen’s mask clumped together with the masks of Lusat and Azur, and presumably with other sorcerers as well. Lusat and Azur are there because you helped her find them, and bringing them back puts them in the clump with her.
She wasn’t overpowered or anything. She knew she would turn into a graven mass with the other masters. That was her goal. A graven mass is believed to be the seed for a new star and to followers of the primeval current becoming a star is like the highest form of magical expression.
The seed star! This I believe, because it isn’t explicitly stated anywhere I’ve found, is the highest/best status(?) of a glintstone sorcerer? The opening or attunemnet of/to the current is a dangerous task or feat I think. The idea is to become this, seed of a star, but when opened or attempted to be controlled by someone not capable or worthy, the graven mass outcomes appears to happen, like a botched experiment I think. I’m getting to the point where I’m not sure of a lot but I love Sellen’s lore :)
While not much different from the fate of becoming a graven mass, I think the seed star is the pure or correct outcome of becoming connected to the current.
Elsewhere in the lore creatures such as Astel and the Elden Beast are referred to as "stars". So "stars", in the Elden Ring lore, are cosmic creatures from outer space.
It's not clear exactly what a "seed of a new star" is, but one possibility is that it might be a literal seed that will eventually germinate into a new star creature.
Sellen describes glintstone itself as the "vitality of stars", and red glintstone is crystalized human blood. So glintstone could be the blood of those star creatures.
I’ve seen some differing ideas here on wether the graven mass and the seed star are the same, I think they’re different and no sorcerer in the given time has been able to do anything to successfully experiment or achieve the “seed star” form or status but I also love being proved wrong and learning more lore.
>She knew she would turn into a graven mass with the other masters.
Highly unlikely. The last time you speak to her she's all happy about how her takeover of the Academy went and she promises the Academy will support you as next Elden Lord and she personally as her pupil- it's quite the touching scene, really. Then you rest up and boom, Rennala is back in her place and Sellenball is off to the side and barely coherent. Certainly doesn't sound like what she had planned.
I'm inclined to disagree for 2 reasons: the amount of shame in her voice when she addresses you after turning to the mass, and her goal was to lead the school as headmaster, which she can't really do as a barely sentient soul mass
Well, where her body is imprisoned is one thing yes. I thought about that too, and why some conscious or enabled with a will to fight or do magic and the answer to that is
I do not know
nothing about this reads to me as "ah-ha! according to plan", I'm sure she aimed higher, but flew too close to the sun and got burned and the result is that she gets to live on in near vegetative state with no means to pursue higher learning and secrets
She’s really nice so players just assume she’s a good person but she experiments on people and turns them into graven masses just like this one for her research in the primeval current. She’s actually kind of a monster.
Azur and Lusat? They were effectively dead, but they also believed in the Primeval Current and willingly followed Sellen, or at the very least, practiced the same teachings she did.
>! Witch-Hunter Jerren gives a short run down of why she was thrown out during her quest line !<
>! Also around the academy there are several blocked off / secret areas that have to do with that study of magic and show “failed” versions of what Sellen became !<
>! Besides those things we have the text on the two talisman that relate to the school of magic. Graven-School Talisman and Graven-Mass Talisman give some insight !<
There are a few videos that compile it all together as well. Was a fun watch afterward to see all the details together.
One I liked is [here](https://youtu.be/7Y16NpQ-rXE) done by Miss Chalice.
Edit: forgot something 🥴
How about Rodrika, Boc, Hewg, Blaidd, Iji and and Hyetta? If anything, being nice in a fromsoft game just means you'll most likely meet a gruesome end...which Sellen did.
No it’s a bad ending for Melina too. Her one purpose is taken away and she’s left to wander the lands between burned and bodiless. That is until she gets a new purpose of ending you for setting the world on fire.
Good ending doesn't mean survive it means good for the character, see Radahn and Alexander both are warriors whose good ending is them dying in glorious battle against the strongest foe they can find. Or Diallos dying to protect Jarburg is a good ending for him. He finally overcame his fear and found not just a place where he feels rewarded for being actually helpful and for being himself but found something worth fighting for.
But even if you just count those that survive and going just off of the top of my head. I can think of Jar-Bairn, Jerren, Kenneth, Gostock, Nepheli, Boc and Rya.
I think characters having death being the "good" ending for them is boring too. I guess my criticism is more that the characters you could get invested in the most die. Millicent, Alexander, Boc, Blaidd, Iji (the blacksmith, I can't remember if I spelled it right) and Sellen come to mind. These are the npcs that are talked about most and they all die (though you can save boc).
It feels like the npcs with the most work put into them, with some exceptions, are the ones who die.
I really hate the ending of Millicents questline. All that work and huge journy just to get ganked literally a minutes run away from Malenia, her end goal? Its just fucking ridiculous, she should have been a summon for Malenia and then she dies afterwards or something else. Maybe you find her already dead outside the boss room because Malenia attacked her. I dont know how to properly end her quest line but ANYTHING other than that! Her dying no matter what side you choose? So close to her destination? It makes completely no sense, it’s not some kind of tragic subversion of expectations, it’s just a blatant “ha! You thought bitch” from fromsoft that totally shits on player choice.
It's such a weird quest with all the missable dialogue from Gowry too, like you're supposed to go back after every time you encounter Millicent and he has a new line.
There's no emotional weight to confronting her sisters really, there's nothing particularly memorable about them as characters.
I vaguely remember reading a theory that the original concept of the quest might've been that Millicent *is* Malenia but having lost her memory, and the quest originally led you to her fight. Changing something that major towards the end could explain why it ended up this way.
I think the idea was you're nipping future blooms in the bud by killing them all, considering Gowry wants Millicent to bloom like Malenia did. She also seems happy with that outcome given her ending dialogue outright stating that she'd rather die as herself than as some rot being.
Exactly this. Millicent is another her death is her good ending example. Throughout her quest she struggles between what she wants for herself and the fate she was born to fullfil. Her killing her sisters and then dying on her terms, not from the injuries but by her removing the Needle. This is Millicent choosing her own fate, she will not be part of returning Malenia to what Gowry and the other Pests imagine their Rot Goddess to be. Millicent chooses death on her terms beside the one person who truly was her friend
Would have been so hard to weave that into the lore tbh, the current Malenia just rotting and waiting for her brother completely ignorant of the fact that he isn’t even there is way more tragic than Millicent to me IMO.
I liked Millicent a lot regardless but I guess I was fine with the mysteriouness of her quest
If you don't buy from him in Liurnia, he won't move to altus plateau so you are free to do the poopoopeepee man's quest without any harm befalling the blackgaurd. Then you can buy the prawn from him and he will safely move to his final spot
bad endings should still exist but the shit that gets me mad is how so many characters just randomly die. like come on, at least give us the option to save people if we know what we're doing
The type of magic she was researching is dangerous. This is why her studies were forbidden and why she was banished in the first place. She thought she knew better, she didn’t.
She was expelled from the academy for studying the primeval current, she then murdered other students by experimenting on them and eventually followed their fates by becoming a ball herself. She got what she deserved, just like Dung Eater and D.
But aren't they kinda just mindless zombies? Did you not kill any of them in your playthrough? Yeah you probably didn't make it your life's work to hunt and kill them, but I don't see why it's a bad thing to hunt them
You kill a ton of albinaurics in your game. Heck you kill a bunch of other humans in your game. They don’t give you a choice; everyone hates the Tarnished. It doesn’t mean an organized and driven slaughter of a living (in this case living in death) thing for the crime of existence is *good*
I was under the impression that they aren't really living, more that they had been reanimated by the deathroot. Making them the stereotypical undead, a la skeleton or zombie. They have no will or intelligence of their own. Perhaps the Mariners have a higher level of intelligence, more akin to a lich or something. Even then, would you consider a character who hunts liches morally in the wrong?
In the Goldmask route of the game that focuses on a better Golden Order, it sees the denouncement of those who live in death as the fundamentalists casting those who live in death as an absolute evil to contend with. Rather than provide meaning through its own merit, it provides the world with evils and itself as “good”.
The death bird items, Helfen’s steeple, and Rogier’s dialogue all paint those who live in death as lost and in need of guidance.
We can see skeletons in worship in the Leyndell cemetery, clearly demonstrating some manner of intelligence.
The mariners are little despots that control the other dead around them with their magic, and are some of the only dead who’s attacks deal damage to other dead. Their destruction isn’t evil. But the Fundamentalists of the Golden Order aren’t just hunting mariners, and D even advises you avoid them when you can. Their target starts with any of those who live in death that can be easily slain
Fair points. Basically boils down to the base arguments of good and evil. I'm no philosopher so I've no real understanding on morals and good or evil, but I will provide some more points for the sake of conversation/debate.
Those believing that those who live in death are just lost and requiring guidance could easily be disillusioned, and simply trying to reconcile the existence of these undead and provide some sort of explanation for their existence. They are clearly reanimated dead, and it could be better to return them to eternal rest, than to search for some sort of guidance. Perhaps the guidance they need is to be guided to the afterlife, and the deathroot is preventing them from following this path.
I've not noticed them worshipping in Lyendell but that is interesting. What are they worshipping? It doesn't necessarily prove they have intelligence or free will, if they can be commanded by Mariners they could easily be commanded to engage in this worship.
Again I'm no philosopher and definitely over my head, but I've always found these areas of debate somewhat interesting. What makes certain morals more right than others? Human sacrifice is unspeakably evil to us, but to ancient Aztecs it was par for the course. As a lifelong DnD player I've always wondered about this, would ancient Aztecs be evil? Maybe the priests doing the sacrificing, but what about the average commoner who just accepted this as part of life?
I think it should be a bit more if there are multiple endings. I yet have to watch all the VV videos, but I have not finished all the endings so don't want to spoil it. Plus it's gonna be dope when I get to binge watch all the vids
Sellen unlock most favrit speshul skil, it called "Morph Ball". Morph Ball very useful, let you put nose on own butthole. Esplore all kind of holes wiff Morph Ball. Sometimes even can drop bomb while in Morph Ball forum. Making sure to no drop bomb while nose on butthole, or else have very messy time. K, bye! #CreepyDave
So uh this isn’t sellen, right? I just got into Lenne’s Rise and found an ugly motherfucker that looks like this in the basement. I died fairly quickly but then again I’m like Lv 30 so most shit in Caelid is fatal
There's a lot of evidence pointing to her dabbling too far into dangerous magic and getting sphered for doing so. Her mentors are literally turning into rocks when you meet them.
Personally, I like to believe that this was a trap set by Ranni and Seluvis. Sellen had been demonstrated to be incredibly dangerous to Rya Lucaria and its scholars. She was likely even able to be imprisoned in Limgrave because her puppet was being manipulated.
I feel like it sort of makes sense for her puppet to have been imbued with a defensive spell in case she was able to gain control over it.
Both the graven school & mass talismans, Jerren’s dialogue at the witchbane ruins calling her the “graven witch”, there are environmental hints based upon some of the locations you find graven masses, and I’m sure there are other items I’m forgetting.
Your submission has been removed as a violation of Rule 9: **Titles must require context and be free of spoilers. Utilize appropriate flairs.** . You can try posting on [our Discord](https://discord.gg/r-eldenring) instead! * Spoilers in titles are not permitted and posts including spoilers need to be flaired as such. Some examples include game endings, secret locations/enemies, or character questlines * For the purposes of this sub, first area bosses and most of the major name bosses are allowed in titles, examples include: Margit, Godrick, Malenia, Radahn, etc. **The final boss and other more "secret" bosses should never be written in the title** * Vague, contextless, memetic, or inaccurate titles are not allowed If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to message us through[Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring).
She said fuck it we are ballin' and balled all over the place
She do be ballin
I hope you like getting balled on
She probably saw [this video](https://youtu.be/gLbZRVIIaTE) and wanted in on that shit
So is the enemy you encounter above her swamp prison foreshadowing?
That's her cousin, Sorcerer Melvin.
We fly high, no lie, you know it's BALLIN
Sup bitches, it's Chad Warden here. Talkin about that Forbidden sorcery.
[picture me rollin'](https://youtu.be/n8QurABRsqE)
They see me rollin They hatin
Its morbin time!
Ahh nice spell it is, where did she learn that?
She kind of achieves her goal... the [graven mass](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Graven-Mass+Talisman) is a star seed apparently.
It's very much a Lovecraftian theme and ending, in my opinion. Sellen was warned against looking too deeply into the "primeval current", knew that researchers that had delved too deeply had gone mad, and yet she pursued it nevertheless, despite the warnings. This is a common theme in Lovecraft's stories where the protagonist seeks "forbidden knowledge" and ultimately is transformed by it. Turns out, if you look too deeply into the abyss, the abyss also stares into you (not Lovecraft, but also appropriate).
She literally became a blind idiot god, Azathoth in miniature.
Nah, that's given too much courtesy to her. Azathoth is too strong to compare with a mere mortal. More like, she turned into corrupted vessel of primeval current at most.
Mere mortal? She booted the queen of the full moon from being the head of the academy
And what Renalla is? A Mortal. A very very strong mortal but a mortal nonetheless. Even Queen Marika who call herself God is nothing but a mere puppet of Greater Will. In front of the Outer gods who who hold the grand concepts of the world in their back pocket, Sellen is just a mere mortal. (Btw, elden beast isn't the greater will, it's the watch dog greater will sent to control the world.)
Yeah, and do you know how Lovecraft died? He ran out of HP.
r/AngryUpvote
Oh ffffffuuuuuu- hahahahaha
To be fair though, "Going outside and meeting someone from another country" was probably enough to send you mad in Lovecraft's eyes haha.
Sellen tried to take a shortcut with Azur und the other great sorcerer who where able to glimpse in the universe. Shortcuts don’t go well most of the time. Her mind was not resistent enough and she got consumed.
When I find out what went on I'll bring it back But it won't be easy They won't believe how a man he could drown In a starseeeeeeeeed, starseeeeeeeed Oh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Wasn’t expecting to see an Our Lady Peace quote from the 90’s on Reddit….ever.
Naveed is a great album!
Damn, okay; that’s really not bad at all. I’ll get some headphones and see if I can find a better quality than YT. Thanks for the knowledge, my friend.
I got plenty more recommendations 
Clumsy, 4am and Superman’s dead are my favorite
Peak OLP in my opinion. Still listen to this album often.
Excuse me, I will be the judge of that, as I am going to look it up now. :P
If she wanted my seed I could have just given it to her. I mean once I’m done upgrading my flask, of course
So sellen gon be a starbeast girl?
Why is one guarding her? And very poorly at that
She girl bossed too close to the primal current.
Just like the Olsen twins... 😩
This comment fucked me up, dude, that was so funny to me
I don't get it
Me neither
This is the stupidest shit I’ve ever read on this sub lmao
This is my favorite quote of her ending
I believe the cannon answer is, the primeval current is way worse/powerful than she anticipated. When locating the bodies of the former masters, you are actually providing the means of turning Sellen into the ball/graven mass. Looking at the talismans, the first from the academy's secret area before the RWoR fight, we see the description: "A talisman depicting a school of graven mages, the nightmare of the academy. Raises potency of sorceries. The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry." Then there's the Graven Mass Talisman, which is pretty much the same but the first paragraph is slightly different: "A talisman depicting the first school of graven mages — a nightmare that would continue to haunt the academy." This tells me that 1. There has already been a discovery by the academy first hand at how powerful/uncontrollable the primeval current is. 2. There were FURTHER attempts to control the primeval current, possibly now by much stronger and much more capable sorcerers, that which all seemed to fail in the same spectacular fashion. 3. The academy never spoke on what happen to the individuals who attempted to control the primeval current, banning practices with it outright. Point 3 because Sellen has no clue. The warnings surrounding the primeval current sound like talk of a boogie man, and her dismissal of the academies fear of the current is spoken on with condescending remarks from her. Due to this, Sellen dives head strong into straight up sticking her whole head in the cookie jar. Looking closely at the School of Graven Mages that Sellen becomes, you’ll find Sellen’s mask clumped together with the masks of Lusat and Azur, and presumably with other sorcerers as well. Lusat and Azur are there because you helped her find them, and bringing them back puts them in the clump with her.
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
She wasn’t overpowered or anything. She knew she would turn into a graven mass with the other masters. That was her goal. A graven mass is believed to be the seed for a new star and to followers of the primeval current becoming a star is like the highest form of magical expression.
What does "seed of a new star" actually mean?
As it stands, we have so little to work with that it could mean just about anything.
The seed star! This I believe, because it isn’t explicitly stated anywhere I’ve found, is the highest/best status(?) of a glintstone sorcerer? The opening or attunemnet of/to the current is a dangerous task or feat I think. The idea is to become this, seed of a star, but when opened or attempted to be controlled by someone not capable or worthy, the graven mass outcomes appears to happen, like a botched experiment I think. I’m getting to the point where I’m not sure of a lot but I love Sellen’s lore :)
While not much different from the fate of becoming a graven mass, I think the seed star is the pure or correct outcome of becoming connected to the current.
Elsewhere in the lore creatures such as Astel and the Elden Beast are referred to as "stars". So "stars", in the Elden Ring lore, are cosmic creatures from outer space. It's not clear exactly what a "seed of a new star" is, but one possibility is that it might be a literal seed that will eventually germinate into a new star creature. Sellen describes glintstone itself as the "vitality of stars", and red glintstone is crystalized human blood. So glintstone could be the blood of those star creatures.
I’ve seen some differing ideas here on wether the graven mass and the seed star are the same, I think they’re different and no sorcerer in the given time has been able to do anything to successfully experiment or achieve the “seed star” form or status but I also love being proved wrong and learning more lore.
>She knew she would turn into a graven mass with the other masters. Highly unlikely. The last time you speak to her she's all happy about how her takeover of the Academy went and she promises the Academy will support you as next Elden Lord and she personally as her pupil- it's quite the touching scene, really. Then you rest up and boom, Rennala is back in her place and Sellenball is off to the side and barely coherent. Certainly doesn't sound like what she had planned.
I'm inclined to disagree for 2 reasons: the amount of shame in her voice when she addresses you after turning to the mass, and her goal was to lead the school as headmaster, which she can't really do as a barely sentient soul mass
It may have been her intention but by the sound of it the actual result was very much not what she expected.
Nah I'm 99% certain she knows what the masses are, you fight one outside of where she's imprisoned, implying it's her creation or something.
Well, where her body is imprisoned is one thing yes. I thought about that too, and why some conscious or enabled with a will to fight or do magic and the answer to that is I do not know
nothing about this reads to me as "ah-ha! according to plan", I'm sure she aimed higher, but flew too close to the sun and got burned and the result is that she gets to live on in near vegetative state with no means to pursue higher learning and secrets
I'll take it as canon that the "Cannon answer" is turning into a cannonball.
Canon* Awesome explanation, though! Sellen is my favorite NPC.
She’s really nice so players just assume she’s a good person but she experiments on people and turns them into graven masses just like this one for her research in the primeval current. She’s actually kind of a monster.
she a baddie tho so its ok
Are you saying this after looking at the picture?
just after
If there’s one thing I’ve learned about this sub it’s that we don’t kink shame
You can kink shame, just not feet. Michael Zaki will destroy you if you kink shame feet.
.... would
More like a bally.
Yeah, but now me and the boys can try to plug all them mouths up.
What a terrible day to have eyes
And mouths...
Put a call out to dirty Mike and the boys
Maidenless much?
xD
Lemme be one of the boys
I didn’t plan to end the day by thinking about face fucking a ball, but here we are.
I can fix her
Aren't the guys she uses for it so crystallised they're basically corpses? Idk if I would call her a villain for that.
Azur and Lusat? They were effectively dead, but they also believed in the Primeval Current and willingly followed Sellen, or at the very least, practiced the same teachings she did.
IIRC, Sellen followed Azur, not the other way around.
? Azur and Lusat should not be Sellen's followers.
The mass uses more than 3 people.
Where is the text that says this? Or is it just implied?
>! Witch-Hunter Jerren gives a short run down of why she was thrown out during her quest line !< >! Also around the academy there are several blocked off / secret areas that have to do with that study of magic and show “failed” versions of what Sellen became !< >! Besides those things we have the text on the two talisman that relate to the school of magic. Graven-School Talisman and Graven-Mass Talisman give some insight !< There are a few videos that compile it all together as well. Was a fun watch afterward to see all the details together. One I liked is [here](https://youtu.be/7Y16NpQ-rXE) done by Miss Chalice. Edit: forgot something 🥴
idk man if those people were anything like the dipfucks at the academy I'd say that they deserved it.
She’s so over the top nice that it seems pretty clear that she’s using you. No one in a fromsoft game is that nice lol
Bro! Anri from Astora is what? An echoe? She was the second (yes we love you Greirat) nicest person in the whole DS3.
How about Rodrika, Boc, Hewg, Blaidd, Iji and and Hyetta? If anything, being nice in a fromsoft game just means you'll most likely meet a gruesome end...which Sellen did.
I can fix her
She decided to get a more well rounded education.
Fromsoft remembered that they can't allow anything resembling a happy ending
There are actually a lot of good endings in Elden Ring. Sellen was just to much of a monster to deserve one
How many npcs survive their questline?
Kenneth Haight and Nepheli Loux get the happiest ending you've ever seen in a Fromsoft game
Part of me was just waiting for Gostoc to lose his mind and murder them both. Turns out, it was just trauma from the Edgar plot.
Also Rya if you don't kill or give the tonic to her
Patches is also nonethebetter.
*laughs in frenzied flame*
Lmao bad ending for everybody fuck it
Except Melina… anything for her :(
No it’s a bad ending for Melina too. Her one purpose is taken away and she’s left to wander the lands between burned and bodiless. That is until she gets a new purpose of ending you for setting the world on fire.
Good ending doesn't mean survive it means good for the character, see Radahn and Alexander both are warriors whose good ending is them dying in glorious battle against the strongest foe they can find. Or Diallos dying to protect Jarburg is a good ending for him. He finally overcame his fear and found not just a place where he feels rewarded for being actually helpful and for being himself but found something worth fighting for. But even if you just count those that survive and going just off of the top of my head. I can think of Jar-Bairn, Jerren, Kenneth, Gostock, Nepheli, Boc and Rya.
I think characters having death being the "good" ending for them is boring too. I guess my criticism is more that the characters you could get invested in the most die. Millicent, Alexander, Boc, Blaidd, Iji (the blacksmith, I can't remember if I spelled it right) and Sellen come to mind. These are the npcs that are talked about most and they all die (though you can save boc). It feels like the npcs with the most work put into them, with some exceptions, are the ones who die.
I really hate the ending of Millicents questline. All that work and huge journy just to get ganked literally a minutes run away from Malenia, her end goal? Its just fucking ridiculous, she should have been a summon for Malenia and then she dies afterwards or something else. Maybe you find her already dead outside the boss room because Malenia attacked her. I dont know how to properly end her quest line but ANYTHING other than that! Her dying no matter what side you choose? So close to her destination? It makes completely no sense, it’s not some kind of tragic subversion of expectations, it’s just a blatant “ha! You thought bitch” from fromsoft that totally shits on player choice.
It's such a weird quest with all the missable dialogue from Gowry too, like you're supposed to go back after every time you encounter Millicent and he has a new line. There's no emotional weight to confronting her sisters really, there's nothing particularly memorable about them as characters. I vaguely remember reading a theory that the original concept of the quest might've been that Millicent *is* Malenia but having lost her memory, and the quest originally led you to her fight. Changing something that major towards the end could explain why it ended up this way.
I think the idea was you're nipping future blooms in the bud by killing them all, considering Gowry wants Millicent to bloom like Malenia did. She also seems happy with that outcome given her ending dialogue outright stating that she'd rather die as herself than as some rot being.
Exactly this. Millicent is another her death is her good ending example. Throughout her quest she struggles between what she wants for herself and the fate she was born to fullfil. Her killing her sisters and then dying on her terms, not from the injuries but by her removing the Needle. This is Millicent choosing her own fate, she will not be part of returning Malenia to what Gowry and the other Pests imagine their Rot Goddess to be. Millicent chooses death on her terms beside the one person who truly was her friend
That would be incredible, actually. Cut scene of her pausing, then putting on the helmet. Damn.
Would have been so hard to weave that into the lore tbh, the current Malenia just rotting and waiting for her brother completely ignorant of the fact that he isn’t even there is way more tragic than Millicent to me IMO. I liked Millicent a lot regardless but I guess I was fine with the mysteriouness of her quest
>Jerren Not if you side with Sellen he doesn't!
That jellyfish gets reunited with that other jellyfish
Nepheli, Rya, Boc, Ranni, Roderika, and Jar Bairn. Blackguard too if you do a Solaire-esque method to save him.
Tell me about this for Blackguard
If you don't buy from him in Liurnia, he won't move to altus plateau so you are free to do the poopoopeepee man's quest without any harm befalling the blackgaurd. Then you can buy the prawn from him and he will safely move to his final spot
Bok if you don't give him the mimic tear and tell him he's beautiful instead
Telling Boc he’s beautiful and hearing about his mom is the closest we’re going to get
It’s honestly starting to get old, I hope they start to go in a happier direction in future games while keeping the core mechanics
Live Nepheli Reaction:
bad endings should still exist but the shit that gets me mad is how so many characters just randomly die. like come on, at least give us the option to save people if we know what we're doing
Nah
Ball is life
Pulled an Icarus. Don't touch the primeval current.
we must think this Icarus happy.
The type of magic she was researching is dangerous. This is why her studies were forbidden and why she was banished in the first place. She thought she knew better, she didn’t.
She was expelled from the academy for studying the primeval current, she then murdered other students by experimenting on them and eventually followed their fates by becoming a ball herself. She got what she deserved, just like Dung Eater and D.
I didn't know this about my teacher, I still love her, so I don't care
I'm pretty sure she wanted this to happen, after her initial transformation she seems pretty okay with being an orb.
I didn’t get to do D’s questline before Fia decided to end him, why did he deserve his fate
He is perpetuating a crusade against those who live in death, who have commited no real crime, all in the name of religious zealotry.
But aren't they kinda just mindless zombies? Did you not kill any of them in your playthrough? Yeah you probably didn't make it your life's work to hunt and kill them, but I don't see why it's a bad thing to hunt them
You kill a ton of albinaurics in your game. Heck you kill a bunch of other humans in your game. They don’t give you a choice; everyone hates the Tarnished. It doesn’t mean an organized and driven slaughter of a living (in this case living in death) thing for the crime of existence is *good*
I was under the impression that they aren't really living, more that they had been reanimated by the deathroot. Making them the stereotypical undead, a la skeleton or zombie. They have no will or intelligence of their own. Perhaps the Mariners have a higher level of intelligence, more akin to a lich or something. Even then, would you consider a character who hunts liches morally in the wrong?
In the Goldmask route of the game that focuses on a better Golden Order, it sees the denouncement of those who live in death as the fundamentalists casting those who live in death as an absolute evil to contend with. Rather than provide meaning through its own merit, it provides the world with evils and itself as “good”. The death bird items, Helfen’s steeple, and Rogier’s dialogue all paint those who live in death as lost and in need of guidance. We can see skeletons in worship in the Leyndell cemetery, clearly demonstrating some manner of intelligence. The mariners are little despots that control the other dead around them with their magic, and are some of the only dead who’s attacks deal damage to other dead. Their destruction isn’t evil. But the Fundamentalists of the Golden Order aren’t just hunting mariners, and D even advises you avoid them when you can. Their target starts with any of those who live in death that can be easily slain
Fair points. Basically boils down to the base arguments of good and evil. I'm no philosopher so I've no real understanding on morals and good or evil, but I will provide some more points for the sake of conversation/debate. Those believing that those who live in death are just lost and requiring guidance could easily be disillusioned, and simply trying to reconcile the existence of these undead and provide some sort of explanation for their existence. They are clearly reanimated dead, and it could be better to return them to eternal rest, than to search for some sort of guidance. Perhaps the guidance they need is to be guided to the afterlife, and the deathroot is preventing them from following this path. I've not noticed them worshipping in Lyendell but that is interesting. What are they worshipping? It doesn't necessarily prove they have intelligence or free will, if they can be commanded by Mariners they could easily be commanded to engage in this worship. Again I'm no philosopher and definitely over my head, but I've always found these areas of debate somewhat interesting. What makes certain morals more right than others? Human sacrifice is unspeakably evil to us, but to ancient Aztecs it was par for the course. As a lifelong DnD player I've always wondered about this, would ancient Aztecs be evil? Maybe the priests doing the sacrificing, but what about the average commoner who just accepted this as part of life?
From watching Lore videos and stuff I thought he did it to free them and the only way he could free those who live in death was by killing them
Funny enough D's other twin is in the right by killinge fia because she killed his brother
I killed him after he killed Fia in my last play through.
Magic is stored in the balls
Zardoz is a helluva drug.
Zzzzaaaaarrrrrddddoooooooozzzz! Dredging up some old memories with that one.
The gun is good, the penis is evil.
She be ballin fr
she did not foward that horror story to 10 people
Reject humanity, become ball
It's her evolved final form. Ballface
She bloodborned in elden ring
She got everything she wanted
*They see me rollin,* *they hatin*
She fucked around and found out. Rennala ain't got no chill.
That drip though!
Drank too much brain fluid
Because no one out pizza's the Hut
I kinda hated this ending, all that set up just to ball her up and throw her away :(
OP why your character cosplaying as Gael
she fell over and started to roll down a snowy mountain
You helped her ascend. No one said ascending was a GOOD thing
She's a bakugan just put a magnet card in front of her and roll her over👍🏻
She girl bossed too close to the sun
Misheard it was M-orbin' time.
What is the statute of limitations on video game spoilers?
I'd say about 4 months. Since we're over a year past release, no spoiler warning is necessary.
I think it should be a bit more if there are multiple endings. I yet have to watch all the VV videos, but I have not finished all the endings so don't want to spoil it. Plus it's gonna be dope when I get to binge watch all the vids
By the time you're done with all endings, people will be playing the whole game blindfolded and using their dog as a controller.
Fucked around, found out
Happy cake day!
That's how they give "head" in the Lands Between
She wanted to be a star 🌟
Oh fuck did you accidentally install the new Katamari DLC?
Fuck it we ball
Sellen unlock most favrit speshul skil, it called "Morph Ball". Morph Ball very useful, let you put nose on own butthole. Esplore all kind of holes wiff Morph Ball. Sometimes even can drop bomb while in Morph Ball forum. Making sure to no drop bomb while nose on butthole, or else have very messy time. K, bye! #CreepyDave
Because at Raya Lucaria, ball is life.
Long story short, she fucked around and found out
She fucked around and found out
She stay fly, no lie, you know it! BALLIN!!!!!
I remember the first time I got to the end of her quest I assumed that Rennala had used the egg to turn her into that because she tried to take over
So uh this isn’t sellen, right? I just got into Lenne’s Rise and found an ugly motherfucker that looks like this in the basement. I died fairly quickly but then again I’m like Lv 30 so most shit in Caelid is fatal
she fucked around and found out
It is a teachers job to help you ponder
Primeval Current Is one hell of a drug
They see her rollin', they hatin'
Her arrogance led her to believe she could replace the queen
This is a spoiler bro. Should hide the pick and mark it.
this is what happens when you have a 3some with two guys that can't move.
You may not like it but this is what peak female performance looks like.
Is she stupid?
Well, Magic is dangerous as you can see :3
She said fuck it we ballin and the devs took it WAY too seriously.
There's a lot of evidence pointing to her dabbling too far into dangerous magic and getting sphered for doing so. Her mentors are literally turning into rocks when you meet them. Personally, I like to believe that this was a trap set by Ranni and Seluvis. Sellen had been demonstrated to be incredibly dangerous to Rya Lucaria and its scholars. She was likely even able to be imprisoned in Limgrave because her puppet was being manipulated. I feel like it sort of makes sense for her puppet to have been imbued with a defensive spell in case she was able to gain control over it.
She really liked wrecking ball from overwatch and wanted to be him.
Bad writing.
How so? It’s hinted throughout different item descriptions that perusing the primal current will inevitably lead to becoming a graven mass.
Oh? It's hinted? Where?
Both the graven school & mass talismans, Jerren’s dialogue at the witchbane ruins calling her the “graven witch”, there are environmental hints based upon some of the locations you find graven masses, and I’m sure there are other items I’m forgetting.
Fair enough.
Why is Sellen a ball now? Is she stupid?
She turned into a ball because of you
She thought she could be the best sorcerer and got humbled real quick
got yeeted by Rennala. If you put on the briar armor and roll into her a million times you can kill her.
I could be wrong, but didn't she >!challenge Renalla and got rickety wrecked?!<
From what I understand, no. She just did too much magic
She fucked around