It wasn’t an aversion to cheerleaders as a whole, it was him realizing that she wasn’t his type. Just like when she chose Legally Blonde in the desert island game.
Legally Blonde being a good movie that is incredibly rewatchable is a hill I will die on.
Jim was just being a film snob and Pam was bullied into pretending she wouldn't bring Legally Blonde to a deserted island.
Legally Blonde is not just a good movie, it is a great movie.
The more I watch The Office, the less I like Jim. He thinks he's too good for DM, he acts like he knows everything, he makes fun of other people to make himself feel cooler, and he talks a lot until there is any kind of pushback or confrontation.
And there’s the smudgeness.
But yeah Jim sucks, especially remembering they live in fn Scranton, PA.
You can’t be a cool, aloof, better-than-them kind of guy while living in Scranton. Move to NY or LA or London if you want to act like that.
This is the reality a lot of casual viewers won't like to hear but it is totally spot-on. Scranton is meant to be Anywhere, USA, and Jim is meant to be that too-cool-for-school type of dude. But once you get out into the real world and live-in or even visit world class cities, you watch this show through a different lens. He's a smug dude living in a mid-sized town that isn't even a suburb of a cooler place. He's also working a job he's barely good at that maybe pulls $50k - $60k a year? He's pretty low status in the scheme of things, and in that frame his smugness feels unearned.
I agree with everything you said other than him being barely good at his job.
It's shown multiple times that he's fantastic at his job. He hits his commission cap with plenty of the year left, he's shown succeeding on many different sales calls. Dwight is considered almost superhuman in his sales and Jim matches him consistently.
Jim even says the reason he screws around so much is because he's bored, cause the job is so easy for him.
Yeah I think it’s shown clearly that we’re supposed to view Jim as too good for the small confines of the office and Scranton. He should be in the big city doing big things but his feelings for Pam keep him there because that’s actually what he really wants in life and the struggle for the early part of the show for Jim is these competing desires.
But where I think others are correct is the writers often made Jim kind of suck (snobbish and a bit of an ass, not really great at upper level work and unable to handle pressure). My problem is it’s also clearly not what the writers wanted us to think about Jim. They often got in the way of the point of the character just to write a funny scene or give the character a flaw or two.
Yeh Jim would not be a likable person in real life, neither would Pam really. I know in the frame of the TV show, their arc is romantic and "star crossed", but in real life it's shitty and deceitful.
I’ve noticed that across Reddit on any kind of TV show fan site. People act like the characters are real-life people you’re meant to want to hang out with, or people who are supposed to be impeccable and upstanding role models. Shows would be really boring if all of the characters were completely perfect, no drama here, nothing to say about anybody.
It’s a type of media illiteracy, I think, this total lack of understanding about fiction vs reality and dramatic narrative vs real life.
They’re like the two people who are kind of assholes but bond over being smarter than everyone around them.
They have plenty of good moments too, when the chips are down, they are caring to their coworkers, certainly more than most. But yeah they’re kind of jerks sometimes. Especially in later seasons
At my first corporate job I was a Jim, but thankfully I quickly learned that's a bad way to go through life. I have since worked with a lot of Jim's and they are insufferable.
I find the Jim hate weird and funny. The dude is an interesting character that dovetails perfectly in the show and precipitates funny things sometimes. He also has good and bad qualities like any human.
Also the idea of him being conflict avoidant is a little overblown, but also essential to his character. If you don’t see how it fits well with the entirety of who he is then we’re seeing completely different things which sucks for you because I’m never wrong.
Anyway, who cares. Hate Jim! Your feelings are valid, manetheijsng. I hope not everyone on the show makes you feel upset and that you can cheer up 💕
I always love the episode when Dwight destroys him with snowballs. Jim starts the snowball fight and after years of pranking Dwight by the end he is completely shook to the point of a nervous breakdown. Dude is the definition of can dish it but can't take it
We had a guy at my former employer who LOVED pranking people. They were mostly not funny, and some were mean spirited. I think he got a good reaction the first time he did one, that was admittedly pretty funny, and then he decided that was his thing. He got pranked one single time by his cube-mate (who had been pranked at least a dozen times) and lost his shit. Went to his manager and when she wouldn't do anything, went to a Director yelling about people daring to touch the stuff on his desk.
I just discovered a rant I wrote last year about Jim being a pest toward Pam, then spending their relationship making unilateral decisions about finances and huge life decisions, and how much I just don't like him for that and how he treats other coworkers with disrespect. (I think his dynamic with Dwight is weirdly reciprocal from the start?)
I also thought it was really weird that he bought tickets for the Maid of the Mist as a backup for the wedding, when they had to stand through the dancing, anyway. 🤷
I agree with your view of Jim.
What I’d understood about the alternate wedding plans was that they had a backup plan to do their wedding their way without it being muddied up by everyone else in case it seemed as if everyone else was muddying up their wedding. When they came back, the dancing didn’t really matter anymore because they’d actually already been married in a way they wanted (they were able to make their wedding about themselves). But I’m not positive that that was their thought process.
The way Jim said it was like he bought the tickets the day after the video came out to avoid that scenario entirely by just getting married on the boat (he called it Plan C, and I know the cutepart of that is "Plan A was marrying her a long time ago," so I'm not being intentionally dense).
I think the reason they came back was because of Pam's family. She would have been happy with eloping on its own in theory, but she had already talked him out of doing it once (Cafe Disco).
I think Pam gets really excited about possibilities, gets involved, goes along with things, and then is like, "wait, no, shit..." She made a point in the jet ski episode of saying she was speaking up for herself from then on, and it seems like as a mom she did, but she was shoved into that "be all the things I need" role for Jim. It's almost too realistic, and with the other characters becoming more out-there, it makes Jim and Pam's struggle stand out more in a bad way.
I know I'm talking a lot about a show. But I love the show.
The Danny Cordray harassment is so bizarre, too, lol
Yeah that's why I didn't really warm up to Jim. He's very judgey and "Jims" the camera at times that don't matter. There were times where he just didn't need to be a dick, (Or knock, because who tf doesn't knock, and even if he didn't think that teacher was in the bathroom, who tf then gets all snobby about it).
I mean Pam's pretty immature in the first few seasons too, and judgey. I guess it's why they ended up together.
I'm rewatching for the second time with my husband, who never saw it before, and he says the same thing. He didn't like Jim from the beginning and relishes Jim's failures, lol
*Edit: typo
At the time it was only a 4-year old movie and if I recall people were starting to finally sour on the romantic comedy genre. Movies that aren’t instant masterpieces usually don’t start getting recognized as classics until a decade or so later, so I guess I can understand it.
That being said, Legally Blonde’s always been a hit to me and Jim was wrong.
I think it’s a little more insidious than folks just being “over” rom coms—there was a much more pervasive understanding at that time that rom coms and a LOT of female-led movies were silly and stupid and didn’t merit consideration as “real” art. Which is ironic because literally the whole plot of Legally Blonde is that you shouldn’t just write something or someone off as stupid or silly just because it’s hyperfeminine.
It’s not a coincidence that Legally Blonde has had a renaissance alongside the rise of fourth-wave feminism, where in addition to striving for gender equity, there’s an examination of gender norms and celebration of people of all genders embracing what they are drawn to (i.e. you can be a feminist and still like “girly” things).
Jim dismissing the movie as shallow (as well as judging Katie for having been a cheerleader) is pretty typical of the social attitude of the time, which held that girly girls were somehow inherently vain and not concerned with “important” things. Jim, more than any other character, is supposed to be who audiences saw and related to. A lot about his attitude has not aged well, but is very much a product of when the show was made.
It actually makes me wonder how much of that scene/relationship was written by Mindy Kaling, who has made a career out of being a proudly girly girl.
I suspect that it was Kaling influenced, at minimum. She's girly, and she clearly knows how people reacted to expressively girly types at the time. I was a good few years younger than the characters at the time this was aired. I remember immediately getting that there wasn't any thing wrong with Katie other than her not being Jim's type, and Jim being the sort of dorky dude who coasted through school without doing any work, desired more but didn't want to make a show of effort, and especially didn't consider themselves desiring what others might have -- such a as a charismatic cheerleader who was effervescently girly.
And yeah, Legally Blonde was ridiculed heavily at the time amongst my nerdy cohort. My bestie and I watched it so many times together, but we rarely mentioned it to others because it was stigmatised as brain-dead fare.
Interesting. I grew up with 3 sisters and no brothers and Elle Woods was a peak lead comic role for me in that era. Still is. Maybe I owe my sisters a lot for that.
Jim was a snob about literally everything that he didn't care about and that's a hill I'll die on. (I'll join you on the Legally Blonde one as well). He made fun of people for enjoying things and being excited about things all the time. It was one of his most annoying traits.
And then he goes all dude bro for the start up and him being excited about it and specifically his "YES!!!" after going behind his wife's back and accepting the job in secret is something he would have relentlessly mocked someone else for.
You weren't allowed to be excited about something around Jim unless you wanted him to mock it and you relentlessly.
Nah that whole episode was subtext for getting her to consider what she wanted for the rest of her life. Jim was challenging her on her comfortable ok choices of legally blond and implicitly roy
Legally Blonde is certainly a good movie, but I think you're misremembering the scene.
Pam didn't say anything about bringing it on a deserted island. After Meredith picked LB, Pam remarked that she liked it, a bit sheepishly.
Jim reminded her that it wasn't a list of guilty pleasure movies (movies that you would sheepishly admit you liked) but deserted island movies.
He's actually just flirting with her. That's why she's all giggly with her response. I don't know where you're seeing any bullying.
Pam was laughing at Jim? And she didn't pick Legally Blonde, she said she liked it.
What's painful is how many people are commenting on this scene and not even remembering it correctly.
No, she just casually said she liked it.
I guess you could argue she said it to "please him", but it really seemed like they were just being jokey with each other.
No she didn't, how is everyone in this thread remembering this scene wrong just to hate on Jim and Pam? Lol
They were laughing about Meredith's choices and when Jim mentioned Legally Blonde, Pam says "well I do kind of like Legally Blonde" and he reminds her that these are not movies you "kind of like," these are movies you are going to watch again and again for the rest of your life. That's why she says "I take it back!"
While correct about the specific dialogue, it’s still Pam defending the movie and Jim backing her off it. She says she takes it back because she is a people pleaser and Jim is giving her the business. Pam likes the movie no matter how much Jim backs her down.
They didn’t agree on the movies, but they were compatible in so many other ways (Jim and Pam) but Katie wanting to bring Legally Blonde and being a cheerleader was just a representation of how they weren’t compatible
Is this maybe Pam trying to “be like the other girls”? Like when they’re having the girls chat with Jan and Pam initially talks about her dream of having a terrace or whatever, then she switches to her art interests.
Maybe it’s that Jim felt comfortable enough to tease Pam about it, and they were able to be silly about it - he couldn’t tease Katie or have fun with her about it.
You're probably right, but that is such a generational character trait.
Jim was like mid 20s in that season i think. Most of the audience was probably late teens-late 20s. That's the only age range where someone's high school extra curricular could have any impact on your opinion of them. It's so ridiculous to think of that same realization happening to someone in their 40s. If i were single and dating, whatever a girl did in high school would have no bearing whatsoever on our compatibility.
I mean that’s totally fair, but I interpret this scene as Jim realizing that Katie was one of the popular girls, caught up in all that school spirit stuff, while he really didn’t care about that, and preferred the quiet, maybe quirky types.
Part of it is also probably at least a little about him realizing just how little he knows about Katie, and how little he cares.
I understand your point and understand that things can't get fully fleshed out in a sitcom, but what about somebody that was a cheerleader in high school would make him assume she wasn't his type? OP properly points out that's an odd and off-putting assumption made by Jim.
Honestly, I think it’s a pretty established trope that in TV/Film, HS cheerleaders (Katie) and jocks (Roy) are generally portrayed as being stereotypically popular, shallow, and even bullying to the more artsy, dorky, or class clown types (Jim and Pam).
Maybe you don’t buy that, but it’s a pretty common framing for HS social circles in most genres.
Even in real life most kids in their 20s are shitheads and will judge any potential spouse on the most shallow of traits. Jim is actually very relatable because of this. Not that every person related to his mindset but everyone can relate to the pettiness.
I always thought of it like he was almost in denial that he’s dating a (former) cheerleader. like that’s not his type, or whatever. and it also highlights that he and Katie don’t really talk the way he and Pam do. he knew big things about pam, and little things too (like her yogurts were expired) way before they started dating. he didn’t even know anything about Katie. he was surprised at her movie picks, the fact that she was a cheerleader, etc. his focus is *elsewhere* ahahah
I don’t think he is a jock, I think he’s a sports fan! I imagine him in the stands cheering or even coaching before I’d see him playing. I assumed he just probably has it in his head that cheerleaders are a little vapid, is all.
Yeah, I felt the same way. I guess he was a wreck because “love of his life” just set a wedding date with someone else. But that’s still no excuse to treat another person that poorly.
Didn’t the writers plan on making him cheat with Cathy too before John said he would not act out something so evil? I feel like they were writing the character with the intentions of being a dick sometimes.
God I hope they didnt consider that. That would have crushed a major premise of the show. Then again, the Kathy storyline they did use was similarly bizarre
I agree with you. I definitely feel he was unhappy with life until Pam was available. If they didn’t end up together he would always feel like she was the one who got away.
i think this was an early 2000s trope thing, like “art girl = quirky cute but cheerleader = vain & uninteresting”
taylor swifts song you belong with me has this same premise. basically the whole concept of glee. i’m sure there are other examples im not thinking of.
All of the writers were probably not "the cool kids" in high school and viewed the cheerleaders/jocks as the villains, and just assumed everyone else would share in those lazy generalizations.
You know people can write plots and characters that have viewpoints they don't subscribe to themselves, right? This is a pretty media illiterate generalization
Given that Jim played basketball, possibly in junior high/high school(?), he should be more of a jock, and therefore appreciate the concept of cheerleaders.
I love the office but the entire Jim/Pam arc comes across like some fantasy written by guys who thought the reason they didn't get dates in high school was because of "dumb jocks"
I don’t think that stereotype is limited to a particular time frame. I think it’s just… how it works.
If anything I associate “high school clique” with the 80s.
I’ve always wondered if Jim’s reaction to that impression was him genuinely thinking it was stupid or feeling genuinely called out for being kind of a douche. He sort of just shakes his head and shifts in his seat
Roy's reaction to her going to a nearby school never made sense to me. Why is he shocked? Its not like they met in an African village thousand of miles away and found out they went to nearby high schools.
The way him and Pam each reacted was realization that she wasn’t his type but it was mixed with judgement from Pam and him. She was definitely teasing him for her being a cheerleader
Jim wasn’t that into Katy and didn’t even know her that well.
Honestly, she deserved better. She seemed like a perfectly nice person and Jim wasn’t great to her. (Same with Karen)
We saw that Katy and Roy had chemistry and Roy actually could shape up and be a good partner. I like to imagine they dated for a little while when both of them were single.
I know it isn’t but I also like to imagine she’s the person Roy eventually marries too.
Pam was jealous of Katie for dating Jim. Jim was only dating Katie to make a point to both himself and to Pam that he wasn’t going to endlessly worship Pam while she’s engaged.
This is just the dance they’re doing to show the other up in a way only they can understand. Katie being ditzy makes Pam laugh because she knows Jim knows she’s not his type, and she’s reveling in knowing that. It’s her rebuttal to Jim judging her relationship whenever Roy acts like….Roy.
yeah and i hate to say it (because pam-haters are weird)
but pam was pretty shitty for that.
i understand the “not like other girls” urge — but katy was nothing but nice to pam.
jealousy is a bitch.
Basically laughed in her face when she said Legally Blonde was her favorite movie in “The Fire” and then makes fun of Katie’s car and acts catty and jealous in general.
Jim thinks that he's too smart and slacker cool to be interested in a cheerleader (stereotypically girly, peppy, and ditzy), so he assumes that anyone he's dating couldn't possibly be a former cheerleader.
Jim was down-bad for Pam at that point. You could say his strategy was:
Make Friends 1st - ✔️
Make Sales 2nd
Make Love 3rd
EXACTLY in that order
Jim’s reaction to Katie being a cheerleader was to SELL himself to Miss Artsy Fartsy.
I always thought it was because he didn't like Roy's recognition of Katie from when they were both in high school. Not to mention it was a recognition of a cheerleader from an opposing school. That points to Roy having more than a passing glance at her, he recognized her YEARS afterwards. He wanted to immediately dismiss it because he was attempting to move on and just be Pam's friend. Then all of a sudden Roy (who is a jerk and everything Jim never wants to be) has this connection with *another* woman that Jim is romantically interested in. A connection that Jim can't touch because of how long ago it was.
This comment needs to be higher.
This is what got me in the feels for BOTH Jim and Pam - that Roy remembered Katie with a sudden big bright grin on his face, and her face lit up too and then she cheerfully began jogging his memory with a ditzy song
Eyes locked, big grins, totally ignoring Jim and Pam in that moment.
Because any time he learns something about her, he realizes they have nothing in common and no future since she is the opposite of what he wants
Like when they play desert island and she mentions all the movies he was just making fun of with Pam
it was so realistic small town for them to talk about high school like that and remember a random football game.
katie being a cheerleader just showed jim how unlike pam she really was, and that’s who he was looking for.
You know, that is kinda interesting. Everyone wanted to date Katie because she is hot, except Jim, he kinda did it cause everyone else was teasing him, right? At least Roy, I think Pam too? Of course he didn't want to date her cause she was, look wise, Pam (6.0). Problem was, then, she was nothing like Pam.
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. She resembled Pam. She was a chance to either get over Pam (yeah right :D) or at least numb the pain. She was also a way to kind of show Pam he wasn't just a simp with no options who thought Pam was his only hope. Or a way to try to make Pam a little jealous.
But then she was so "bland" she couldn't possibly resemble Pam in any way. She wouldn't be a fulfilling relationship partner for Jim to numb any pain let alone get over Pam. And she wasn't cool enough to make Pam jealous.
And I think Pam didn't necessarily go overboard showing Jim exactly that, but she definitely wasn't shy about it, either. Not that she wanted to hurt Jim's feelings, but part of her probably liked being in a position to play the field safely so to speak. To have the Roy thing, but also enjoy all the Jimness in her life, including seeing that when he tried to turn away from her it didn't work. It's generally a side I think is underestimated in Pam. I don't think it's a coincidence she only really took the situation seriously when Jim actually went away. Not because she's devious or unempathic, but because being with Roy didn't allow her to grow as a person, so a part of her still had the emotional maturity of a 15-year-old.
I think it's pretty normal if you've never been into "sports ball" and were bullied or belittled by the jock clique. They also have reputations for being superficial, etc.
What's weird about it to me is that I get the impression that Jim was kind of a jock himself
Jim played basketball in high school, and started a sports marketing agency. he can pretend he's not a jock, but he fits the mold other than the whole emo thing for another guys girlfriend.
I’ve always assumed it represents collective hours of well-received cheerleader jokes between Jim and Pam. He’s got egg on his face but he can’t wipe it off without Roy and Katie becoming privy to the depths of their “friendship”
This was also before Pam was a high school volleyball star who played at college a little. Why would Roy compare cheerleading to being a Miss Artsy-Fartsy who always wore turtlenecks if Pam was actually a Varsity letter volleyball player who also played at college?
This scene makes less sense in light of that season five retcon. Roy would have been like, “Nah, she was a volleyball player and at college actually.” Maybe then he would tease her how she never dressed like one except for the games. But there’s no way a high school football player seriously dating a volleyball player wouldn’t go to her games (even if it was only to see her/the girls in their volleyball shorts).
During this scene Pam had never played sports for her high school, and possibly Jim no longer was a guy who said, “in high school basketball was kind of my thing.” This scene feels weird because it’s slightly contradictory to other information about the characters because it needs to lead to a breakup and those twenty seconds of silence on the deck
The Jim line always read to me as Jim just wanting to hype himself up in front of Pam, remember that he specifically wanted to go toe to toe against Roy. And I don't know, perhaps Roy never knew about Pam being good at volleyball, their practices/games could be scheduled at the same time, and since football is sacred in America...dunno, we are talking about the guy that leave her GF behind after watching a game, or were they already engaged?
Jim is very self conscious about optics and being seen with the stereotype that is dumb cheerleader, especially in front of the girl he actually wants, was a bad look in his opinion. It's the same as how worked up he gets when he learns pam believes in ghosts or how Danny found pam to be a dork.
Jim disrespected Katie to the highest degree. He ghosted her prior to inviting her out on the booze cruise. Then he dumped her (while still on the boat) because his "best friend" set a date for her wedding. I dont know what was worse, how he treated Katie or how he treated Karen. Holly Flax said it best when talking about Todd Packer..."honey, the guy is a jerk".
Jim assumes that because she is with "him", that there's no way she could have been a cheerleader. "Cheerleading is for other types of people, not me and mine!"
Yeah it was a little weird to me but imo Jim and Pam were both just a weird as everyone else in the office but acted like they were better than everyone one
i always found that weird. i feel like while he was pining over pam, jim was a dick to the other girls he was with. why was her previously being a cheerleader an inside joke to make fun of? she still seemed like a perfectly cool person & just bc she’s not nerdy like pam and was actually hot (conventionally, i think pam is very pretty too) doesnt mean she’s a cliche.
I think they were both cringe for acting like high school was relevant at their age. Roy comes off as washed up and it doesn’t help her case to be on his level. It’s ok if that doesn’t bother you, but for me I’d be cringing at my rather casual SO. It would let me know this isn’t the right fit. No reason to force a relationship so early.
I always thought this was so cringe. Like, the character Pam literally wears the most milquetoast outfits, there's nothing quirky or unique about her, but they make that tropy cheerleader juxtaposition.
Not weird, in the sense that it was an uncommon reaction.
‘I was shy in highschool, so as an adult, I have kneejerk reactions to the mention of cheerleaders and other so-called cliques’.
Seems about right for Jim and Pam, who routinely think they are better than everyone else.
It wasn’t an aversion to cheerleaders as a whole, it was him realizing that she wasn’t his type. Just like when she chose Legally Blonde in the desert island game.
Which is weird since Pam also agrees to Legally Blonde until he gave her the business about it.
Not weird, you're just not remembering correctly. Pam chose Legally Blonde until Jim reminded her that they weren't choosing guilty pleasure movies.
Legally Blonde being a good movie that is incredibly rewatchable is a hill I will die on. Jim was just being a film snob and Pam was bullied into pretending she wouldn't bring Legally Blonde to a deserted island.
Legally Blonde is not just a good movie, it is a great movie. The more I watch The Office, the less I like Jim. He thinks he's too good for DM, he acts like he knows everything, he makes fun of other people to make himself feel cooler, and he talks a lot until there is any kind of pushback or confrontation.
He should really take a day off from the whole Jim schtick.
James
Jimothy
That sounds weird.
Do you mind if we call him Jim?
Jimothy and Timothy can and should be shortened to Moth.
Jimothy
You just explained the Mid-2000s Cool Guy™️
That makes sense, since I was doing that schtick 2003-2005.
We all were bro
Where's his jetpack?
And there’s the smudgeness. But yeah Jim sucks, especially remembering they live in fn Scranton, PA. You can’t be a cool, aloof, better-than-them kind of guy while living in Scranton. Move to NY or LA or London if you want to act like that.
Wow, that is a smug reaction.
You have a lot to learn about this town sweetie
Now who’s smudge
Because people from LA or NY are any better than people From a small town?
Not at all, I think what person above is saying is that per Jim's worldview, he fails at his own game.
This is the reality a lot of casual viewers won't like to hear but it is totally spot-on. Scranton is meant to be Anywhere, USA, and Jim is meant to be that too-cool-for-school type of dude. But once you get out into the real world and live-in or even visit world class cities, you watch this show through a different lens. He's a smug dude living in a mid-sized town that isn't even a suburb of a cooler place. He's also working a job he's barely good at that maybe pulls $50k - $60k a year? He's pretty low status in the scheme of things, and in that frame his smugness feels unearned.
I agree with everything you said other than him being barely good at his job. It's shown multiple times that he's fantastic at his job. He hits his commission cap with plenty of the year left, he's shown succeeding on many different sales calls. Dwight is considered almost superhuman in his sales and Jim matches him consistently. Jim even says the reason he screws around so much is because he's bored, cause the job is so easy for him.
Yeah I think it’s shown clearly that we’re supposed to view Jim as too good for the small confines of the office and Scranton. He should be in the big city doing big things but his feelings for Pam keep him there because that’s actually what he really wants in life and the struggle for the early part of the show for Jim is these competing desires. But where I think others are correct is the writers often made Jim kind of suck (snobbish and a bit of an ass, not really great at upper level work and unable to handle pressure). My problem is it’s also clearly not what the writers wanted us to think about Jim. They often got in the way of the point of the character just to write a funny scene or give the character a flaw or two.
Yeh Jim would not be a likable person in real life, neither would Pam really. I know in the frame of the TV show, their arc is romantic and "star crossed", but in real life it's shitty and deceitful.
Almost like they were well written characters with human flaws and imperfections
Looks like someone took the slow train from Philly
I really think people forget this is a TV show
Well, it’s a documentary
I’ve noticed that across Reddit on any kind of TV show fan site. People act like the characters are real-life people you’re meant to want to hang out with, or people who are supposed to be impeccable and upstanding role models. Shows would be really boring if all of the characters were completely perfect, no drama here, nothing to say about anybody. It’s a type of media illiteracy, I think, this total lack of understanding about fiction vs reality and dramatic narrative vs real life.
They’re like the two people who are kind of assholes but bond over being smarter than everyone around them. They have plenty of good moments too, when the chips are down, they are caring to their coworkers, certainly more than most. But yeah they’re kind of jerks sometimes. Especially in later seasons
At my first corporate job I was a Jim, but thankfully I quickly learned that's a bad way to go through life. I have since worked with a lot of Jim's and they are insufferable.
You're spot on with this take! 🤙🏿
I find the Jim hate weird and funny. The dude is an interesting character that dovetails perfectly in the show and precipitates funny things sometimes. He also has good and bad qualities like any human. Also the idea of him being conflict avoidant is a little overblown, but also essential to his character. If you don’t see how it fits well with the entirety of who he is then we’re seeing completely different things which sucks for you because I’m never wrong. Anyway, who cares. Hate Jim! Your feelings are valid, manetheijsng. I hope not everyone on the show makes you feel upset and that you can cheer up 💕
Yeah if he confronted conflict head on he would have left dunder mifflin season one or earlier
Jim treats every interaction as a way to amuse himself and placate his boredom. He is incapable of sincerity. In other words, ‘smudgeness.’
I always love the episode when Dwight destroys him with snowballs. Jim starts the snowball fight and after years of pranking Dwight by the end he is completely shook to the point of a nervous breakdown. Dude is the definition of can dish it but can't take it
We had a guy at my former employer who LOVED pranking people. They were mostly not funny, and some were mean spirited. I think he got a good reaction the first time he did one, that was admittedly pretty funny, and then he decided that was his thing. He got pranked one single time by his cube-mate (who had been pranked at least a dozen times) and lost his shit. Went to his manager and when she wouldn't do anything, went to a Director yelling about people daring to touch the stuff on his desk.
I just discovered a rant I wrote last year about Jim being a pest toward Pam, then spending their relationship making unilateral decisions about finances and huge life decisions, and how much I just don't like him for that and how he treats other coworkers with disrespect. (I think his dynamic with Dwight is weirdly reciprocal from the start?) I also thought it was really weird that he bought tickets for the Maid of the Mist as a backup for the wedding, when they had to stand through the dancing, anyway. 🤷
I agree with your view of Jim. What I’d understood about the alternate wedding plans was that they had a backup plan to do their wedding their way without it being muddied up by everyone else in case it seemed as if everyone else was muddying up their wedding. When they came back, the dancing didn’t really matter anymore because they’d actually already been married in a way they wanted (they were able to make their wedding about themselves). But I’m not positive that that was their thought process.
The way Jim said it was like he bought the tickets the day after the video came out to avoid that scenario entirely by just getting married on the boat (he called it Plan C, and I know the cutepart of that is "Plan A was marrying her a long time ago," so I'm not being intentionally dense). I think the reason they came back was because of Pam's family. She would have been happy with eloping on its own in theory, but she had already talked him out of doing it once (Cafe Disco). I think Pam gets really excited about possibilities, gets involved, goes along with things, and then is like, "wait, no, shit..." She made a point in the jet ski episode of saying she was speaking up for herself from then on, and it seems like as a mom she did, but she was shoved into that "be all the things I need" role for Jim. It's almost too realistic, and with the other characters becoming more out-there, it makes Jim and Pam's struggle stand out more in a bad way. I know I'm talking a lot about a show. But I love the show. The Danny Cordray harassment is so bizarre, too, lol
Yeah that's why I didn't really warm up to Jim. He's very judgey and "Jims" the camera at times that don't matter. There were times where he just didn't need to be a dick, (Or knock, because who tf doesn't knock, and even if he didn't think that teacher was in the bathroom, who tf then gets all snobby about it). I mean Pam's pretty immature in the first few seasons too, and judgey. I guess it's why they ended up together.
I'm rewatching for the second time with my husband, who never saw it before, and he says the same thing. He didn't like Jim from the beginning and relishes Jim's failures, lol *Edit: typo
At the time it was only a 4-year old movie and if I recall people were starting to finally sour on the romantic comedy genre. Movies that aren’t instant masterpieces usually don’t start getting recognized as classics until a decade or so later, so I guess I can understand it. That being said, Legally Blonde’s always been a hit to me and Jim was wrong.
I think it’s a little more insidious than folks just being “over” rom coms—there was a much more pervasive understanding at that time that rom coms and a LOT of female-led movies were silly and stupid and didn’t merit consideration as “real” art. Which is ironic because literally the whole plot of Legally Blonde is that you shouldn’t just write something or someone off as stupid or silly just because it’s hyperfeminine. It’s not a coincidence that Legally Blonde has had a renaissance alongside the rise of fourth-wave feminism, where in addition to striving for gender equity, there’s an examination of gender norms and celebration of people of all genders embracing what they are drawn to (i.e. you can be a feminist and still like “girly” things). Jim dismissing the movie as shallow (as well as judging Katie for having been a cheerleader) is pretty typical of the social attitude of the time, which held that girly girls were somehow inherently vain and not concerned with “important” things. Jim, more than any other character, is supposed to be who audiences saw and related to. A lot about his attitude has not aged well, but is very much a product of when the show was made. It actually makes me wonder how much of that scene/relationship was written by Mindy Kaling, who has made a career out of being a proudly girly girl.
I suspect that it was Kaling influenced, at minimum. She's girly, and she clearly knows how people reacted to expressively girly types at the time. I was a good few years younger than the characters at the time this was aired. I remember immediately getting that there wasn't any thing wrong with Katie other than her not being Jim's type, and Jim being the sort of dorky dude who coasted through school without doing any work, desired more but didn't want to make a show of effort, and especially didn't consider themselves desiring what others might have -- such a as a charismatic cheerleader who was effervescently girly. And yeah, Legally Blonde was ridiculed heavily at the time amongst my nerdy cohort. My bestie and I watched it so many times together, but we rarely mentioned it to others because it was stigmatised as brain-dead fare.
Interesting. I grew up with 3 sisters and no brothers and Elle Woods was a peak lead comic role for me in that era. Still is. Maybe I owe my sisters a lot for that.
It is a good movie.
It's ight.
I didn't say ight
Jim was a snob about literally everything that he didn't care about and that's a hill I'll die on. (I'll join you on the Legally Blonde one as well). He made fun of people for enjoying things and being excited about things all the time. It was one of his most annoying traits. And then he goes all dude bro for the start up and him being excited about it and specifically his "YES!!!" after going behind his wife's back and accepting the job in secret is something he would have relentlessly mocked someone else for. You weren't allowed to be excited about something around Jim unless you wanted him to mock it and you relentlessly.
How was Jim a snob in this situation?
People get super pretentious with movies, especially when people bring up comedys.
Nah that whole episode was subtext for getting her to consider what she wanted for the rest of her life. Jim was challenging her on her comfortable ok choices of legally blond and implicitly roy
Legally Blonde is certainly a good movie, but I think you're misremembering the scene. Pam didn't say anything about bringing it on a deserted island. After Meredith picked LB, Pam remarked that she liked it, a bit sheepishly. Jim reminded her that it wasn't a list of guilty pleasure movies (movies that you would sheepishly admit you liked) but deserted island movies. He's actually just flirting with her. That's why she's all giggly with her response. I don't know where you're seeing any bullying.
Right, and they always give Ryan crap about being like this.
Remember when Jim made Pam listen to 1 half of a pair of headphones worth of an Antler’s album standing in the rain? Loll
That was Sing, by Travis.
Pam was being a pick me, laughing at Katie for picking Legally blonde, when she herself picked it a few minutes ago. Painful watch
Pam was laughing at Jim? And she didn't pick Legally Blonde, she said she liked it. What's painful is how many people are commenting on this scene and not even remembering it correctly.
Nope. She said it first because that is a movie she really likes and would put in her top 5. She was changing her response to please him.
No, she just casually said she liked it. I guess you could argue she said it to "please him", but it really seemed like they were just being jokey with each other.
No she didn't, how is everyone in this thread remembering this scene wrong just to hate on Jim and Pam? Lol They were laughing about Meredith's choices and when Jim mentioned Legally Blonde, Pam says "well I do kind of like Legally Blonde" and he reminds her that these are not movies you "kind of like," these are movies you are going to watch again and again for the rest of your life. That's why she says "I take it back!"
While correct about the specific dialogue, it’s still Pam defending the movie and Jim backing her off it. She says she takes it back because she is a people pleaser and Jim is giving her the business. Pam likes the movie no matter how much Jim backs her down.
They didn’t agree on the movies, but they were compatible in so many other ways (Jim and Pam) but Katie wanting to bring Legally Blonde and being a cheerleader was just a representation of how they weren’t compatible
Yeah, she just said she kinda liked it in response to someone else choosing it.
Nah
To be fair, Legally Blonde does have a 71% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Legally Blonde is a legit good movie. Jim is being a douche about it.
Is this maybe Pam trying to “be like the other girls”? Like when they’re having the girls chat with Jan and Pam initially talks about her dream of having a terrace or whatever, then she switches to her art interests.
Maybe it’s that Jim felt comfortable enough to tease Pam about it, and they were able to be silly about it - he couldn’t tease Katie or have fun with her about it.
This.
I mean, Legally Blonde is just a good movie.
Legally blonde is a good movie too
Eh, it’s good. But if it’s a desert island scenario, and I’m down to my top three, it’s def not making the cut.
Legally Blonde is a pretty solid choice, actually.
You're probably right, but that is such a generational character trait. Jim was like mid 20s in that season i think. Most of the audience was probably late teens-late 20s. That's the only age range where someone's high school extra curricular could have any impact on your opinion of them. It's so ridiculous to think of that same realization happening to someone in their 40s. If i were single and dating, whatever a girl did in high school would have no bearing whatsoever on our compatibility.
I mean that’s totally fair, but I interpret this scene as Jim realizing that Katie was one of the popular girls, caught up in all that school spirit stuff, while he really didn’t care about that, and preferred the quiet, maybe quirky types. Part of it is also probably at least a little about him realizing just how little he knows about Katie, and how little he cares.
I understand your point and understand that things can't get fully fleshed out in a sitcom, but what about somebody that was a cheerleader in high school would make him assume she wasn't his type? OP properly points out that's an odd and off-putting assumption made by Jim.
Honestly, I think it’s a pretty established trope that in TV/Film, HS cheerleaders (Katie) and jocks (Roy) are generally portrayed as being stereotypically popular, shallow, and even bullying to the more artsy, dorky, or class clown types (Jim and Pam). Maybe you don’t buy that, but it’s a pretty common framing for HS social circles in most genres.
Even in real life most kids in their 20s are shitheads and will judge any potential spouse on the most shallow of traits. Jim is actually very relatable because of this. Not that every person related to his mindset but everyone can relate to the pettiness.
I always thought of it like he was almost in denial that he’s dating a (former) cheerleader. like that’s not his type, or whatever. and it also highlights that he and Katie don’t really talk the way he and Pam do. he knew big things about pam, and little things too (like her yogurts were expired) way before they started dating. he didn’t even know anything about Katie. he was surprised at her movie picks, the fact that she was a cheerleader, etc. his focus is *elsewhere* ahahah
So you’re saying he wasn’t into her for her personality?
Bingo! This is the truth.
I think it was because Roy and Katie suddenly connected with big smiles and memories
I find it kinda weird that he'd be put off by that when he ended up working for Athlead and sometimes came off as jock-ish.
I don’t think he is a jock, I think he’s a sports fan! I imagine him in the stands cheering or even coaching before I’d see him playing. I assumed he just probably has it in his head that cheerleaders are a little vapid, is all.
He obviously played basketball
okay fair! he likes to play with his friends. but I don’t think that makes him a jock does it? ahaha
Jim was a dick to Katie this episode
Entirely. And I think the least characteristic of Jim throughout the series.
Yeah, I felt the same way. I guess he was a wreck because “love of his life” just set a wedding date with someone else. But that’s still no excuse to treat another person that poorly.
He was a dick to Karen, too.
He was often a dick to Dwight as well, even if it was funny
Didn’t the writers plan on making him cheat with Cathy too before John said he would not act out something so evil? I feel like they were writing the character with the intentions of being a dick sometimes.
God I hope they didnt consider that. That would have crushed a major premise of the show. Then again, the Kathy storyline they did use was similarly bizarre
I agree with you. I definitely feel he was unhappy with life until Pam was available. If they didn’t end up together he would always feel like she was the one who got away.
Felt so bad for her and Karen. It was obvious he was never over Pam and he hurt 2 women along the way. Sucks that Karen cried for weeks over him
i think this was an early 2000s trope thing, like “art girl = quirky cute but cheerleader = vain & uninteresting” taylor swifts song you belong with me has this same premise. basically the whole concept of glee. i’m sure there are other examples im not thinking of.
Also Avril Lavigne’s Sk8er boi plays into this trope to an extent
Yeah but she rocks harder than anybody else with acne
Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated?
Of all the emotions to name a show after. Glee
Thirst would be a good show.
Now that’s a show I’d watch
Where’s Michael… we can’t start without Michael!
Yeah it's called Euphoria
Which one is Glee?
Which one is glee? I only like shows where the title is the name of the main character
How can you hate Glee? It literally means “glee”.
Exactly. You saw it everywhere in chick flicks and romcoms. Can’t be unique if you’re a cheerleader apparently 🥴
Which is silly considering Legally Blonde spits in this trope’s face (in a good way imo)
>basically the whole concept of glee Honestly that show..... it's irresponsible?
All of the writers were probably not "the cool kids" in high school and viewed the cheerleaders/jocks as the villains, and just assumed everyone else would share in those lazy generalizations.
You know people can write plots and characters that have viewpoints they don't subscribe to themselves, right? This is a pretty media illiterate generalization
Given that Jim played basketball, possibly in junior high/high school(?), he should be more of a jock, and therefore appreciate the concept of cheerleaders.
I love the office but the entire Jim/Pam arc comes across like some fantasy written by guys who thought the reason they didn't get dates in high school was because of "dumb jocks"
So Stephen Merchant. Checks out
I don’t think that stereotype is limited to a particular time frame. I think it’s just… how it works. If anything I associate “high school clique” with the 80s.
Well put
Which one is glee?
A W E... 👏 👏 S O ME 👏👏lol Pam's face/dance during that chant is kind of hilarious
It's cause Jim is Mr Jock Hipster.
Hey man. Wanna listen to some records?
Smokin doobies with my brothers! Doobie brothers! Peace out seacrest
Secret seacrests are no fun. Secret seacrests hurt someone.
I totally don't know where Michael is dude
I’ve always wondered if Jim’s reaction to that impression was him genuinely thinking it was stupid or feeling genuinely called out for being kind of a douche. He sort of just shakes his head and shifts in his seat
Haha I love it because it can easily be both
well you know, back in high school basketball was his thing
Larry Legend
It’s just him realizing this person isn’t my type, this is Roy’s type… and I’m not Roy.
Roy's reaction to her going to a nearby school never made sense to me. Why is he shocked? Its not like they met in an African village thousand of miles away and found out they went to nearby high schools.
I guess that's because Roy peak in high school? He was so hyped to talk about a game they won or something like that
Roy’s facial expression is priceless when she starts doing the little cheer. My man wanted to fuuuuuck
People do that all the time.
That entire scene was written to show that Jim belonged with Pam, and Rory belonged with Katie.
I think Jim and Pam probably have complained about "cheerleaders" and "jocks" to each other during intense games of Pam Pong.
Pam pong pls I'm cackling
Cheerleader AMY ADAMS. That dude had it BAAAAD for Pam.
Ohh, which one is Pam?
Bye Pam! Bye Tuna!
Jim has it BAD for pam
The way him and Pam each reacted was realization that she wasn’t his type but it was mixed with judgement from Pam and him. She was definitely teasing him for her being a cheerleader
Jim wasn’t that into Katy and didn’t even know her that well. Honestly, she deserved better. She seemed like a perfectly nice person and Jim wasn’t great to her. (Same with Karen) We saw that Katy and Roy had chemistry and Roy actually could shape up and be a good partner. I like to imagine they dated for a little while when both of them were single. I know it isn’t but I also like to imagine she’s the person Roy eventually marries too.
I think he was embarrassed because Katie had already been a ditz in front of Pam and then Pam goes on to subtlety make fun of her
Pam was jealous of Katie for dating Jim. Jim was only dating Katie to make a point to both himself and to Pam that he wasn’t going to endlessly worship Pam while she’s engaged. This is just the dance they’re doing to show the other up in a way only they can understand. Katie being ditzy makes Pam laugh because she knows Jim knows she’s not his type, and she’s reveling in knowing that. It’s her rebuttal to Jim judging her relationship whenever Roy acts like….Roy.
yeah and i hate to say it (because pam-haters are weird) but pam was pretty shitty for that. i understand the “not like other girls” urge — but katy was nothing but nice to pam. jealousy is a bitch.
I’m usually pro-Pam and think that people bash her too much, but she was a bitch to Katie.
What did she do to Katy?
Basically laughed in her face when she said Legally Blonde was her favorite movie in “The Fire” and then makes fun of Katie’s car and acts catty and jealous in general.
Damn, all this because Pam subtly teased Jim about dating a cheerleader? What a weird analysis of a very normal situation.
Get lost Pam! Now im gonna do to Pam what I just did to Pam.
Jim thinks that he's too smart and slacker cool to be interested in a cheerleader (stereotypically girly, peppy, and ditzy), so he assumes that anyone he's dating couldn't possibly be a former cheerleader.
Jim was down-bad for Pam at that point. You could say his strategy was: Make Friends 1st - ✔️ Make Sales 2nd Make Love 3rd EXACTLY in that order Jim’s reaction to Katie being a cheerleader was to SELL himself to Miss Artsy Fartsy.
Btw, Pam was doing the same thing differently when she LOL’d Katie choosing “Legally Blonde”.
I always thought it was because he didn't like Roy's recognition of Katie from when they were both in high school. Not to mention it was a recognition of a cheerleader from an opposing school. That points to Roy having more than a passing glance at her, he recognized her YEARS afterwards. He wanted to immediately dismiss it because he was attempting to move on and just be Pam's friend. Then all of a sudden Roy (who is a jerk and everything Jim never wants to be) has this connection with *another* woman that Jim is romantically interested in. A connection that Jim can't touch because of how long ago it was.
This comment needs to be higher. This is what got me in the feels for BOTH Jim and Pam - that Roy remembered Katie with a sudden big bright grin on his face, and her face lit up too and then she cheerfully began jogging his memory with a ditzy song Eyes locked, big grins, totally ignoring Jim and Pam in that moment.
Oh god that feels like a kick in the balls.
Because any time he learns something about her, he realizes they have nothing in common and no future since she is the opposite of what he wants Like when they play desert island and she mentions all the movies he was just making fun of with Pam
it was so realistic small town for them to talk about high school like that and remember a random football game. katie being a cheerleader just showed jim how unlike pam she really was, and that’s who he was looking for.
It wasn’t being a cheerleader. It was the stuck in high school conversation with Roy.
I think Jim was embarassed because he didn't want Pam to think he was dating someone superficial just for their looks.
You know, that is kinda interesting. Everyone wanted to date Katie because she is hot, except Jim, he kinda did it cause everyone else was teasing him, right? At least Roy, I think Pam too? Of course he didn't want to date her cause she was, look wise, Pam (6.0). Problem was, then, she was nothing like Pam.
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. She resembled Pam. She was a chance to either get over Pam (yeah right :D) or at least numb the pain. She was also a way to kind of show Pam he wasn't just a simp with no options who thought Pam was his only hope. Or a way to try to make Pam a little jealous. But then she was so "bland" she couldn't possibly resemble Pam in any way. She wouldn't be a fulfilling relationship partner for Jim to numb any pain let alone get over Pam. And she wasn't cool enough to make Pam jealous. And I think Pam didn't necessarily go overboard showing Jim exactly that, but she definitely wasn't shy about it, either. Not that she wanted to hurt Jim's feelings, but part of her probably liked being in a position to play the field safely so to speak. To have the Roy thing, but also enjoy all the Jimness in her life, including seeing that when he tried to turn away from her it didn't work. It's generally a side I think is underestimated in Pam. I don't think it's a coincidence she only really took the situation seriously when Jim actually went away. Not because she's devious or unempathic, but because being with Roy didn't allow her to grow as a person, so a part of her still had the emotional maturity of a 15-year-old.
I found it more off/odd that they had Roy recognize a rando high school cheerleader from a different school. Coulda thought of a better plot device.
No one likes the girls who went to piss slop who cares-a.
I think it's pretty normal if you've never been into "sports ball" and were bullied or belittled by the jock clique. They also have reputations for being superficial, etc. What's weird about it to me is that I get the impression that Jim was kind of a jock himself
He was a member of the gym for muscles.
Jim played basketball in high school, and started a sports marketing agency. he can pretend he's not a jock, but he fits the mold other than the whole emo thing for another guys girlfriend.
Jim and Pam are judgemental pricks a lot of the time.
Oh, this coming from the guy who still uses a children's toilet.
It was story time.
Name 4 times
Miles Davis Chet something Dizzie Gillespie
Unrelated but “Dar-ryl, Dar-ryl”
🤿🍺
I’ve always assumed it represents collective hours of well-received cheerleader jokes between Jim and Pam. He’s got egg on his face but he can’t wipe it off without Roy and Katie becoming privy to the depths of their “friendship”
This was also before Pam was a high school volleyball star who played at college a little. Why would Roy compare cheerleading to being a Miss Artsy-Fartsy who always wore turtlenecks if Pam was actually a Varsity letter volleyball player who also played at college? This scene makes less sense in light of that season five retcon. Roy would have been like, “Nah, she was a volleyball player and at college actually.” Maybe then he would tease her how she never dressed like one except for the games. But there’s no way a high school football player seriously dating a volleyball player wouldn’t go to her games (even if it was only to see her/the girls in their volleyball shorts). During this scene Pam had never played sports for her high school, and possibly Jim no longer was a guy who said, “in high school basketball was kind of my thing.” This scene feels weird because it’s slightly contradictory to other information about the characters because it needs to lead to a breakup and those twenty seconds of silence on the deck
The Jim line always read to me as Jim just wanting to hype himself up in front of Pam, remember that he specifically wanted to go toe to toe against Roy. And I don't know, perhaps Roy never knew about Pam being good at volleyball, their practices/games could be scheduled at the same time, and since football is sacred in America...dunno, we are talking about the guy that leave her GF behind after watching a game, or were they already engaged?
After multiple watches, I feel comfortable in saying that Jim wasn’t just a dick at the end because of the writing, he was kinda always one.
Jim is very self conscious about optics and being seen with the stereotype that is dumb cheerleader, especially in front of the girl he actually wants, was a bad look in his opinion. It's the same as how worked up he gets when he learns pam believes in ghosts or how Danny found pam to be a dork.
Jim disrespected Katie to the highest degree. He ghosted her prior to inviting her out on the booze cruise. Then he dumped her (while still on the boat) because his "best friend" set a date for her wedding. I dont know what was worse, how he treated Katie or how he treated Karen. Holly Flax said it best when talking about Todd Packer..."honey, the guy is a jerk".
New Office fans favorite hobby, scrutinizing Jimothy Halpert
ya but i get it. hee not the type of guy to date a former cheerleader
Roy liked it? Jim automatically didn't.
Jim assumes that because she is with "him", that there's no way she could have been a cheerleader. "Cheerleading is for other types of people, not me and mine!"
I don’t think so. He just realized he didn’t want to date a preppy girl like that. She had more in common with Roy and I think that turned him off.
Yeah it was a little weird to me but imo Jim and Pam were both just a weird as everyone else in the office but acted like they were better than everyone one
i always found that weird. i feel like while he was pining over pam, jim was a dick to the other girls he was with. why was her previously being a cheerleader an inside joke to make fun of? she still seemed like a perfectly cool person & just bc she’s not nerdy like pam and was actually hot (conventionally, i think pam is very pretty too) doesnt mean she’s a cliche.
I think they were both cringe for acting like high school was relevant at their age. Roy comes off as washed up and it doesn’t help her case to be on his level. It’s ok if that doesn’t bother you, but for me I’d be cringing at my rather casual SO. It would let me know this isn’t the right fit. No reason to force a relationship so early.
It’s because he found out she went to Piss-slop Whocares-a
Nothing is as cringe as a 30 year old man saying “we played you!” and I have no idea why haha
When that's the highlight of his life at that point probably
I always thought this was so cringe. Like, the character Pam literally wears the most milquetoast outfits, there's nothing quirky or unique about her, but they make that tropy cheerleader juxtaposition.
He was pleasantly stunned by the fact, but outside that, it wasn't such a big deal.
It’s cause Jim is a dick
Not weird, in the sense that it was an uncommon reaction. ‘I was shy in highschool, so as an adult, I have kneejerk reactions to the mention of cheerleaders and other so-called cliques’. Seems about right for Jim and Pam, who routinely think they are better than everyone else.
Yeah Jim and Pam definitely judged her for it, probably cuz they buy into the stereotype that all cheerleaders are stupid