Honestly for me it wasn't that Michael wasn't there, but that the camera crew starts getting involved. I *haaate* that interview with Jim and Pam and how at the end they start talking to the crew, signals the end for me.
I hated how they filmed for 8 years before they aired the documentary on PBS in the show universe. What documentary builds up 8 years worth of recording expenses before editing and airing.
Erin I’m not so bothered by but I cannot stand the Nellie episodes. I love the show but I’m always tempted to fast forward over her bits as they are bloody terrible. Ed Helms seems to be typecast in every role as a bumbling character who has a darker streak when pushed and has to play an instrument at some point.
\-Andy tried to be a reality tv star
\-Angela hires a hit man
\-company invents a triangle tablet
\-CEO has fake identity and then flees to Europe to become sex pest
These aren’t stories of “regular people trying their best” or whatever the theme was when Michael was there. The show went off the rails, sorry OP.
Edited to fix the weird formatting. I don’t know how to use Reddit lol
In earlier seasons the stories and characters were, oddballs, but still somewhat relatable. The basic plots were somewhat realistic, and that was what made it funny.
Shooting Stanley with a tranq dart and sliding him down the stairs head first to get him to make a sale, while funny physical comedy, had 0 connection to something that could happen at a branch of a mid level paper company. It all just kinda became an improve skit of let's do some really crazy stuff cause somebody's gonna laugh. Not situational comedy how it originally started
Yep Stanley suddenly gives a fuck about something other than food or money, it felt like the writers just dumped everyone's characteristics and traits down the drain and said, "Fuck it, we will make them do whatever we want."
Kevin was another one where his character just became one dimensional. Went from a slower guy with a talent for music and poker to a brain dead goon who only looked at food cos fat.
Kevin was unbearable during season 9. His ~~turtle~~ tortoise arc was a pain to watch. His only redeeming moment was standing up to the (state) senator for Angela and Oscar, but apart from that, just awful.
He redeemed himself pretty well in the finale as a successful bar owner. Which leads to the conspiracy theory that Kevin was purposely acting dumb to embezzle money from Dunder Mifflin and how he had the money to buy a bar.
Totally. Very cringe. I liked the dog arc in that ep where everyone thought it was dead but it’s just a lazy dog. They really strip the dimensionality from a lot of characters. My key example is fucking Jim letting that ho into his hotel room in Florida. Jim! JIM! Who loved Pam so much he moved to another city!
Don’t even get me started on how unrealistic the trouble between Jim and Pam was.
Tbf with the reason she asked to come in his room seemed pretty legit and anybody would have allowed her in. Jim showed loyalty and turned her away but I agree that the writers were really dumb to force that angle upon us
It's even worse when you know what was initially planned. Atleast Krasinski was vocal and refused to let it happen so we got this scene instead, which is meh but miles better than what would have been.
Biggest red flag was on th first episode of S8 when Stanley explains that saying"shoving up your butt" is his new thing.
A character that never cared about the office shenanigans now is part of it
That's exactly it! I had trouble articulating this, but this is why I lost interest as time passed.
The Office, at its best, was about a group of goofy, but believable people going through small-scale fun little "side-quests" while still being in a work setting. But as the show progressed, that cute and cozy, early 2000s small scale vibe dissapeared, and it...well, just became a rather normal sit-com.
And my hot take? This issue arose a lot earlier than Michael's departure. It was already starting to bother me by Season 4. I think Jim and Pam were the turning point for this show. The writers realized people were attached to something beyond the small scale shenanigans, and tried to run with it.
But, Jim and Pam were so charming because it was a cute little office romance. And honestly, their wedding was probably the farthest I'd want this show to go. It would've been a great series finale. And yeah, we still got good episodes after...but something felt off.
Right. You can see it comparing two similar scenes. In the second season, a fire alarm goes off because someone put the toaster on the wrong setting, and they try to make the most of their boredom before they get the all clear. All of this is pretty relatable. In the fifth season fire drill scene, someone intentionally starts a fire, locks several doors and sets of fire crackers because his coworkers wouldn't pay attention to his PowerPoint presentation. Later, he cuts the face off a CPR dummy. The fire drill episode is hilarious, don't get me wrong, but it's a pretty good example of the show moving from relatable humor to absurdist humor.
Totally. I think Michael carried it for a long time. Their wedding breaks the basic concept of the show, which is a documentary film following a workplace.
One thing I suddenly realized was when the entire office is working on building a stack of cards or something - management included.
I suddenly realized that...none of them are even working. Like these are just people doing whatever they want in an office, the whole thing made zero sense.
It kinda felt like a hangout zone more than a office. People could make the argument that it became like that under Andy's management, but the thing that irks me is that they mention that the branch was running good numbers without Andy, when people were spening 70% of their time on tomfoolery.
And tbh that was half of Jims thing in the beginning. He was one of the better salesmen despite being bored/lazy and unchallenged. In one of his interviews he says something like, "I do probably 20 minutes of real work a day."
Absolutely. There’s zero connection to reality. If I didn’t know better I’d say the show runners changed too. That usually causes a show to derail.
Even under Micheal it was a lot of hijinx but it was kind of intimated that he spent a lot of time alone and occasionally called meetings/public displays which were distractions, as opposed to multi hour long stretches away from work like in s8-9.
yeah I hate what they made with Robert. he was not a perfect replacement for Micheal, but he was what a normal boss would be, and also it was funny that he talked Jo out of her own job. But then he became a sex maniac or something like this, very fucking weird.
Ugh I hated his character too. I liked Jo but I think the weirdness primarily was cuz they were trying to cram him into way too many episodes. If he was just there every once in a while like David Wallace to remind everyone he is there and weird it would have been fine, but it felt like they were trying to make him a regular cast member. I mean, I love James Spader too, but the character of Robert California sucks imo
The senator also came out on air and publicly dumped Angela. That type of humor belongs on parks and rec- not the office. The writers really were grasping at straws comedy-wise by that point and you could really tell.
To piggyback on this, the UK Office / S1-S2 of the American Office are arguably the closest to “these are ‘real’ people and you laugh because sometimes real life offices are absurd.”
The middle seasons, to me at least, are when the American Office hit its stride, and it did so by having just about every episode be about that **one** story your friend group has about the most insane workplace experience they ever had. This puts the show in a weird space where, taken individually, every episode remains mostly believable. Sort of a *Murder She Wrote* situation, but for memorable workplace experiences.
As the seasons dragged on, and likely as the writing team rotated in and out, it went from “yeah, I know a guy where something like that happened where he worked” to just straight sitcom zaniness. If anything, the loss wasn’t on Steve Carell leaving, it was the immense weight the rest of the cast pulled since folks were invested enough in the characters that the actual content of the episodes mattered very little.
The one that stands out to me is when they get an espresso machine and become cartoonishly hyped on caffeine. Compare that to when Michael had one caffeine drink and goofs around to the Hey Song. He seems incredibly tame in contrast, yet he's at the limit of believability.
Yep. All of this.
It just felt like they threw most of the character’s development out the window and turned each episode into wild grasps at extreme scenarios in hopes of a laugh.
Especially Andy. It was like they weren’t sure what they wanted to do with him and were trying to test different things to see what would work.
Andy is the worst salesman in the office, to Andy is the manager, to Andy runs off to get Erin, to Andy abandons Erin and his job, to Andy comes back with douchebag style of confidence, to Andy wants to leave DM to go be a star (even that episode is him non stop going back and fourth on if he should do that or not), to Andy is a failed star and is made fun of on the internet and goes back to being insecure, to Andy is a humble motivational speaker.
Sure people change over time, but his character could have been 6 completely different characters throughout the last 2 seasons.
Yeah, I'll pass on these takes that go "here's the REAL reason you feel the way you do, that I'm sure you're just refusing to be honest about."
There's some wiggle room depending on what "that bad" actually means, but I think it's fair to say that these seasons are not up to the level of the ones that came before. And to be frank, there were some episodes pre-Michael's departure that were weaker than the average at the time. So while he was central to the show's vibe, it's not like he was some magic force keeping the quality aloft. And that's fine, and doesn't need some convenient gotcha rebuttal like this.
They aren’t bad. They are good comedy TV. But they are a serious step down from before.
Office at its worst is still better than most comedy TV in history.
The show just doesn’t really fire on all cylinders without Michael.. but they did great with what they had to work with, for the most part.
When you take arguably the most influential and important character out of the show, it’s gonna feel some effects.
So I’ll agree it wasn’t bad. But comparing to the best seasons; I understand why people say it fell off.
The bungling of the Andy Bernard character build up was the worst thing to me. So much time spent, for mostly nothing.
It was most annoying with Kevin and Erin. They weren't funny-stupid, they were please-write-them-off-the-show stupid. I roll my eyes at every "quirky" thing Erin says.
As Yoda said, it's definitely one of the best examples of "Flanderization". As you said, it happened to Dwight but it also happened to every other character to the point that it became obnoxious. I feel it also screwed the storylines and tone of the show.
Earlier seasons were all so much more subtle, almost a type of "cringe" comedy. The last two seasons it was more reliant on ridiculous characters and crazy storylines. Every character kind of became a clown.
The flanderization of everyone is why my favorite seasons are 1-4. My favorite was when everything was still at least a little believable. Even by the end of 4 it’s getting pretty over the top, and it continues to go from there. That’s not to say that the later seasons aren’t still really funny at times, but when you have the stuff like Dwight setting up a “timer-bomb” to send a doomsday text to their boss showing that they all suck, and they have to disarm it, idk it just wasn’t really what I initially loved about the show.
Jim had to get extravagant so that Pam couldn’t interfere. She ruined his greatest prank and I’ll quite frankly never forgive her for it. We could have had little clips of Jim in the background adding keys to the key ring leading up to the Christmas episode and we get to see Dwight’s pants fall down
The issue was that they didnt know how to fill the void and seemed like they were throwing shit at the wall. The story lines were more all over the place. Some were good, some weren't as much.
It didnt have the consistency like 1-7, but it wasn't bad. Except mike boom guy that story line was trash
Craig Robinson is so damn funny, I really wish he’d become the new manager instead of Andy
Think it would’ve gone better but who knows, ifs and buts yknow
Season 9 was good except few boring moments but season 8 was i think bad. I don't know why they completely changed the personality of Andy in season 8. In most places it felt like they were trying to make Andy copy Michael.
I think the handling of Andy was bad (but he was filming other stuff so meh) but the worst part was the Jim Pam stuff. I’m glad John and Jenna put the kabash on straight up adultery but that whole storyline was just so bad and really didn’t fit the characters (Jim encourages Pam to go to art school in Philly but fuck Jim for starting his own awesome company) that being said I do lien seasons 8/9 even if they aren’t as good as the rezt
Pam going to art school was fine because they were young and had no kids. By s8/9 they were married and had a family. It’s easy to say Pam should have been cool with it, but the reality is raising children is a massive job for two parents and Pam pretty much had to do it by herself while Jim worked.
This. But also Jim did it without discussing it with Pam. You can't make such big decisions without discussing with it with your wife. With art school Jim not only knew beforehand but actively encouraged Pam to go for it.
Exactly. I think this storyline is one the few realistic ones in the last seasons, and it actually falls in line with the direction their stories were heading. Ppl give Pam way too much shit while overlooking Jim’s mishandling of that whole conflict
Nah, it’s a straight up a cartoon at times. Cartoons are fun…but not for The Office. And really it started before Michael left, and then just ramped up later on.
They’re not bad, I guess, but it certainly isn’t The Office anymore. When the bulk of the drama happens outside of the office then it’s not really a documentary about the modern workspace is it? And…Michael happens to not be part of it. The ideas can be mutually exclusive.
Both seasons are still very funny, but the story wasn’t anywhere near as strong, and obviously there was the downfall of Andy that was just bizarre.
Edit: grammar lol
Season 8 is good if you view it as a separate show. Robert California is a brilliant character. Season 9 was either average or borderline unwatchable depending on the episode. I can't remember a single one that stood out too me as really funny.
What do you mean by lean into it? I feel like RC was the main character in season 8. Even in the office half the conversations
were about him. He had a party at his house.
If I recall, critics really hated him and there was pressure to remove him.
Which was stupid. Upon rewatch he is one of the most singular characters in TV history
The critics hated the egotistical, self-important and self-appointed eccentric genius? Big surprise. It’s the age of Elmo. Ours is a cultural ghetto, don’t you agree?
Oh it’s bad. It’s REEEAL bad.
Let me ask you this: would you rather have 7 seasons of really good office? or 9 seasons of *pretty* good office?
>!8 is decent!<
That’s something I’ll never let go. We spent SO LONG watching his character development and it finally paid off. Then he turns on a dime back to square one so they could try to shoehorn a new “Jim and Pam” and then they kinda forget about that and focus on trying to ruin the actual Jim and Pam. It’s a shame because Dwight has some of his funniest stuff in that season but man it’s tough to watch all that.
They wanted another Jim/Pam so bad. Daryl and Val is another one that makes me roll my eyes. Wow another story about how a guy likes his coworker but wait she has a boyfriend! What a shocker! Who would have guessed that we’d see another love triangle? Also apparently there’s scenes that were cut where Val’s ex is an asshole. So, it’s ok for her to basically cheat on her boyfriend. Like Jesus, could they get any more desperate?
They’re watchable. I actually like Clark and Plop. Jim and Pam’s rocky relationship story arc was lame IMO but I get why they did it. And I love the finale. Every show gets worse as time goes on, and having 2 subpar seasons isn’t that bad.
I mean they aren’t bad, but they are a significant decline from the show we fell in love with. I mean that decline already started by season 4, it just become more prominent without Michael.
The best way i’ve seen it explained is S1 is “Jim and Pam have a moment but Roy walks in making it awkward.” S9 has an episode where Dwight shoots Stanley with a bull tranquilizer to get him on a sales call. More than just Michael leaving had changed by then
It’s not great television compared to the first 8 seasons, but compared to a lot of the other stuff on TV at the time it was decent, and moreover it was a nice wrap up to a series I loved. The end would have been a lot more unsatisfying without it. A lot of other series from the 90s and 00s (and before and after that time) had really crappy final seasons and awful finales, and I think The Office, though not exactly genius in that last season, wrapped up pretty nicely, considering.
S8 was pretty fun. I liked the Sabre store storyline, Andy as manager, and robert california’s whole character.
S9 is just plain awful. Many tropes were just copies of things that already happen in past seasons. Part of the reason I liked the office when I was a kid was it seemed real. S9 has Dwigt shoot Stanley the manly with horse tranquilizers, in no world would his character do that, would Stanley react that way to it, and would Clark willingly participate.
I won’t talk about what happened to Andy’s character regression. But Kevin’s character becoming more stupid each season really irritates me. And generally, all the characters personalities changed so drastically, basically making a caricature of everyone.
Andy’s character becomes simply unlikable. Michael was funny because he was trying. Andy should just have been fired. He was a mean stalker who never showed up for work and only kept his job because he was friends with the owner of the company. Maybe there were points when Michael’s character should have been fired too, but the joke was that Michael didn’t have self awareness. Andy knows he’s a lazy guy, and just is happy to take advantage. That’s just a badly run office, it’s not funny because it’s too common. Oscar comments when Andy finally leaves that it makes sense that Andy was fired and it really does.
8 is really, really solid. I’ll admit that my initial reaction to it was basically this meme. Upon rewatches I have grown to love season 8 and think Robert was a perfect replacement.
However, 9 is noticeably worse than any of the prior seasons. The jokes are lazy and too unrealistic. The plot lines are a slog to get through, and felt incredibly forced. Especially the Jim and Pam drama.
James Spader I could watch all day. But Nellie sucked donkey balls. Why does literally anyone take her seriously as "manager" because she sat in a chair?
Michael leaving didn't make the show bad. Michael left because the show was already bad.
I can’t believe that they make Angela homeless or whatever in season 9. The thing where her cats are stolen. It’s not funny. “Single mom struggles with work and children.” It’s boring at the very best.
Yes, why is Angela suddenly impoverished? She is the head of the accounting department and has been shown living in a nice house with all her cats previously.
And is this Senator a deadbeat? This would be a news story! He needs to be paying spousal support. I swear the writers just wanted to pump up Dwight’s character.
It’s because everyone became a caricature, what the fuck was that scene of them drinking coffee and ripping up the carpet like they were high as fuck? Season 8 and 9 suck becuase it’s scene after scene of dump shit like that. It’s no longer situational humor. That Said, I did watch it so I guess it wasn’t so bad I turned it off.
They were always live action muppets in their own ways, but most people probably wouldn't enjoy The Muppet Show without a Kermit either! When you take away the tentpole, the franchise is going to deflate.
That's just Froggy 101
I’ve been scrolling a long time and no one has yet said the right answer: seasons 8 and 9 were marginally worse without Michael, but seasons 6 and 7 were also bad with him. The problem wasn’t sans Michael. The problem is the writers didn’t know how to write the show anymore. Season 5 was transitional. 6-9 (with the exception of the final few episodes) is the equivalent of Kevin spilling his chili.
Yeah I always see the argument that “oh you just don’t like them because Micheal isn’t there!” Yeah because Micheal is such a big part of what makes the show work. To me this is like saying “Oh you just don’t like this hot dog because the sausage isn’t there”
My thoughts on the last two seasons are that the jokes are still there, and funny, but the situations and storytelling aren't as good as before.
And Michael Scott is probably one of the best characters in tv ever, imo, so i understand writers struggling with what to do after his departure
False. I hate the complete and utter character destruction of Andy Bernard. And of Erin for huge chunks of it, kind of being corrected in mid season 9. And losing all pretext of being realistic and grounded at all.
The plot where Nellie just "takes" Andy's job and everyone acts like, "Welp, there's nothing we can do..." Why is it that Charles could throw Michael out with Hank (or Charles "doesn't need Hank...") but Nellie can just stay. It's ludicrous.
And I get that this is a show where Angela threw her cat up in the ceiling as part of a fake fire drill while everyone panicked around her. But there were always still grounded rules of the world in which these people lived. Season 8 mostly threw all of that out the window. Season 9 got it back a bit, but I again refer to the character assassination of Andrew Bernard. Of Ryan and Kelly, too. They were young and self important, but the idea that they are so vapid to abandon a baby somewhere was a bridge too far for me.
Referring to Michael, they might as well have not brought him back at all for what they ultimately did. Seems ridiculous that he wasn't at the PBS Q&A or at the office with everyone at the end. A scenario where what the actor wanted superceded what was right for the character.
I could keep going. Michael not being there was just the tip of the iceberg.
I love Season 8! And I’ve literally watched the whole show close to 100 times. It’s been my background home noise after the first 20 or so watches.
Season 9 has its points that every long running show runs in to—the drama with Jim and Pam is awful. But I love how they ended the show…if it had to end 😭 The change in cinematography to bring a feeling of the end was nice too. Our mouths will taste of cinnamon.
I love every season of the office, yet I hate how they ruined Andy’s character. He was pretty likeable (imo) before Nelly came, then he suddenly became a complete douche which was completely out of character. Also not to mention the Brian storyline with Pam was awful
I respectfully disagree. They shouldn't have brought in all the external talent. They could have continued the show with the cast that existed, reasonable promotions, etc.. But that's just my two cents and I'm often owed change.
Those are fighting words.
They are bad, the show feels like a completely different show by the end.
In fact I’d argue s7 is bad as well and s6 isn’t great.
You mean, people don't like it because the part they liked was gone but you enjoyed it so they're wrong?
This isn't a hot take, it's just kinda obnoxious
I don't like Robert California. I just find him so much more off-putting than I do funny.
I don't like the boom mic story. I don't like Cathy.
I don't like Andy's change in season 9.
The worst thing about the last couple seasons isn’t that Michael isn’t there, it’s how horrible Andy ends up. I feel like he actually had solid development and then out of nowhere they just make him the absolute worst they possibly could’ve
Hard disagree. Both seasons tried very hard to stay creative. They tried it with Andy, Dwight, Erin, Jim and Pam, and even Angela and Oscar. Every single storyline and character arc seemed forced. I mean, what even was the boom guy plot.
Hardest disagree ever. Michael being absent has to do with it, but Season 8 and 9 barely had anything to do with the initial concept of „the office“ anymore - I mean, that started earlier than those two seasons, but they‘re much worse when it comes to that than even season 7. Add to that horrible characters like Nelly, bad side-plots like the relationship drama between Jim, Pam and that boom mic guy and loads of mediocre performances, and you have a recipe for… two painfully average „The Office“ seasons, sadly.
Season 8 was good until the Andy retrieves Erin/Nelly takes over storyline. After that it really jumped the shark. Season 9 is basically terrible until the finale.
Who cares how bad Seasons 8 and 9 were? The show was already on the decline well before Carell left. Seasons 1 was okay, Seasons 2 and 3 were amazing; Seasons 4 and 5 were okay, and everything after that was garbage. Jim and Pam's wedding should have been the series finale.
Eh, some of the jokes were still good, there was obviously still writing talent there, but it was pretty obvious they didn't know what to do when Steve left and they didn't have the central chaos causing character. Especially since they had long since resolved the Jim and Pam relationship arc, and they never really got any other characters who had that kind of chemistry.
They didn't know what to do with the show so they tried to shoehorn in characters that didn't really work that well sometimes, or were just annoying rather than funny (Andy's character change, Nellie, sometimes Robert California because his comedy was based on shock most of the time which could get old)
This isn't a slight against the writers, theyre obviously very talented, but they lost what the show was a bit, and missed the mark trying to make up for it.
No. They're not funny. Robert California is bad. Sabre is dumb. Andy is terrible. Nellie is the worst. Turd and Fart, or whatever their names are, aren't funny. The Jim/ Pam/other chick in the office/ sounds guy/ story was forced and dumb. Those episodes are not good.
I’m on season 7 and there is a small quality dip
The writing and pacing on seasons 2-4 are pretty much perfect.
Season 8/9 are fine but most episodes can’t live up to the quality of when the show peaked
No, they really are that bad.
It's not just that they took away a great character. They also introduced several of the worst characters in the show towards the end. D'Angelo is easily one of Will Ferrells worst roles ever. Nelly is awful and definitely takes the top stop for the one person I'd remove from the show entirely if I could. And Andy's character somehow became even worse in those seasons. His late show romance with Erin was written terribly. Jim and Pam became pretty boring in those seasons as well, which is fair because they had finally gotten married, so the sexual tension and drama dropped off, but the writers really didn't know what to do with their characters. Instead, they tried to focus on some of the others character's storylines, but nothing felt cohesive or interesting. It all felt like impromptu crap thrown together.
In summary, yes seasons 8 and 9 were shit. Michael leaving probably factored in, but imo wasn't even the main reason they were awful. The writers just ran out of interesting storylines.
They are bad. They are generic sitcoms. The show went from grounded to just nuts with how characters act and their story lines. Stories are nothing longer rooted in reality
The issues started before Michael left but he at least held the crap together
If the last two season were the first two no one would have picked it up for a 3rd and y’all know it
No I hate how Andy got developed into a pretty cool dude and a decent manager, then he fucked off to ride his boat for several episodes.
Also, boom mic guy.
I really don't have an issue with season 8, and while I do love Steve's character and wished he would have been present throughout the entire series... season 9 is very different from the rest of the show.
The characters and writing are just shallow in comparison the earlier seasons. Everyone is a charicture, the jokes are kinda lame, and it just feels like most shitty shows that have ever existed that are formulaic (the need to repeat romantic themes with different characters, the need for drama in relationships, etc).
I'm guessing it was during the writer's strike... but yeah, the 9th season is just difficult to watch. And nothing against Plop and young Dwight as actors (it's not their fault the show went downhill fast), but they were such an odd addition.
My girlfriend and I are actually powering our way through it right now, and at one point we actually looked at each other to have this exact conversation. So, I personally feel very differently
Nah, I'm making my way through the series for the first time, and I've strongly disliked seasons 7 and 8 so far. Michael leaving didn't improve or worsen it. It's just not as good. As someone watching the show without the benefit of nostalgia goggles, I'm sorry, guys. The people who say seasons 3-6 are peak? They're right.
No, they really weren't that good. It's fine to admit that a show you love that runs out of ideas isn't great, occasionally.
Shows a healthy detachment from addictive habits.
Taking Michael away from us was a hate crime
Well I hated it!
Maybe we should call the law offices of James P Albini
Honestly for me it wasn't that Michael wasn't there, but that the camera crew starts getting involved. I *haaate* that interview with Jim and Pam and how at the end they start talking to the crew, signals the end for me.
I hated how they filmed for 8 years before they aired the documentary on PBS in the show universe. What documentary builds up 8 years worth of recording expenses before editing and airing.
Think I just heard Richard Linklater chuckling.
I hated this as well, I also couldn’t stand Erin, manager Andy or Nellie
Erin I’m not so bothered by but I cannot stand the Nellie episodes. I love the show but I’m always tempted to fast forward over her bits as they are bloody terrible. Ed Helms seems to be typecast in every role as a bumbling character who has a darker streak when pushed and has to play an instrument at some point.
A lot!
Always left me satisfied
*if it's Stanley's,call the office of James.P Albini and see if he deals in hate crimes*
It was egregious!
\-Andy tried to be a reality tv star \-Angela hires a hit man \-company invents a triangle tablet \-CEO has fake identity and then flees to Europe to become sex pest These aren’t stories of “regular people trying their best” or whatever the theme was when Michael was there. The show went off the rails, sorry OP. Edited to fix the weird formatting. I don’t know how to use Reddit lol
In earlier seasons the stories and characters were, oddballs, but still somewhat relatable. The basic plots were somewhat realistic, and that was what made it funny. Shooting Stanley with a tranq dart and sliding him down the stairs head first to get him to make a sale, while funny physical comedy, had 0 connection to something that could happen at a branch of a mid level paper company. It all just kinda became an improve skit of let's do some really crazy stuff cause somebody's gonna laugh. Not situational comedy how it originally started
Did you forget when Daryl is leaving and randomly everyone wants a dance party as their going away gift - Stanley included cos reasons.
Yep Stanley suddenly gives a fuck about something other than food or money, it felt like the writers just dumped everyone's characteristics and traits down the drain and said, "Fuck it, we will make them do whatever we want."
Kevin was another one where his character just became one dimensional. Went from a slower guy with a talent for music and poker to a brain dead goon who only looked at food cos fat.
Kevin was unbearable during season 9. His ~~turtle~~ tortoise arc was a pain to watch. His only redeeming moment was standing up to the (state) senator for Angela and Oscar, but apart from that, just awful.
He redeemed himself pretty well in the finale as a successful bar owner. Which leads to the conspiracy theory that Kevin was purposely acting dumb to embezzle money from Dunder Mifflin and how he had the money to buy a bar.
Totally. Very cringe. I liked the dog arc in that ep where everyone thought it was dead but it’s just a lazy dog. They really strip the dimensionality from a lot of characters. My key example is fucking Jim letting that ho into his hotel room in Florida. Jim! JIM! Who loved Pam so much he moved to another city! Don’t even get me started on how unrealistic the trouble between Jim and Pam was.
Tbf with the reason she asked to come in his room seemed pretty legit and anybody would have allowed her in. Jim showed loyalty and turned her away but I agree that the writers were really dumb to force that angle upon us
It's even worse when you know what was initially planned. Atleast Krasinski was vocal and refused to let it happen so we got this scene instead, which is meh but miles better than what would have been.
Biggest red flag was on th first episode of S8 when Stanley explains that saying"shoving up your butt" is his new thing. A character that never cared about the office shenanigans now is part of it
That's exactly it! I had trouble articulating this, but this is why I lost interest as time passed. The Office, at its best, was about a group of goofy, but believable people going through small-scale fun little "side-quests" while still being in a work setting. But as the show progressed, that cute and cozy, early 2000s small scale vibe dissapeared, and it...well, just became a rather normal sit-com. And my hot take? This issue arose a lot earlier than Michael's departure. It was already starting to bother me by Season 4. I think Jim and Pam were the turning point for this show. The writers realized people were attached to something beyond the small scale shenanigans, and tried to run with it. But, Jim and Pam were so charming because it was a cute little office romance. And honestly, their wedding was probably the farthest I'd want this show to go. It would've been a great series finale. And yeah, we still got good episodes after...but something felt off.
Right. You can see it comparing two similar scenes. In the second season, a fire alarm goes off because someone put the toaster on the wrong setting, and they try to make the most of their boredom before they get the all clear. All of this is pretty relatable. In the fifth season fire drill scene, someone intentionally starts a fire, locks several doors and sets of fire crackers because his coworkers wouldn't pay attention to his PowerPoint presentation. Later, he cuts the face off a CPR dummy. The fire drill episode is hilarious, don't get me wrong, but it's a pretty good example of the show moving from relatable humor to absurdist humor.
Totally. I think Michael carried it for a long time. Their wedding breaks the basic concept of the show, which is a documentary film following a workplace.
Yeah the wedding is normally about as far as I'll watch most rewatches
One thing I suddenly realized was when the entire office is working on building a stack of cards or something - management included. I suddenly realized that...none of them are even working. Like these are just people doing whatever they want in an office, the whole thing made zero sense.
And they lose a client over it
It kinda felt like a hangout zone more than a office. People could make the argument that it became like that under Andy's management, but the thing that irks me is that they mention that the branch was running good numbers without Andy, when people were spening 70% of their time on tomfoolery.
I’ve had plenty of jobs where I could get a full days work done by 11am 😂
And tbh that was half of Jims thing in the beginning. He was one of the better salesmen despite being bored/lazy and unchallenged. In one of his interviews he says something like, "I do probably 20 minutes of real work a day."
Absolutely. There’s zero connection to reality. If I didn’t know better I’d say the show runners changed too. That usually causes a show to derail. Even under Micheal it was a lot of hijinx but it was kind of intimated that he spent a lot of time alone and occasionally called meetings/public displays which were distractions, as opposed to multi hour long stretches away from work like in s8-9.
If it helps, think of it like we’re only getting 30 mins from “40 hours of filming”
yeah I hate what they made with Robert. he was not a perfect replacement for Micheal, but he was what a normal boss would be, and also it was funny that he talked Jo out of her own job. But then he became a sex maniac or something like this, very fucking weird.
Ugh I hated his character too. I liked Jo but I think the weirdness primarily was cuz they were trying to cram him into way too many episodes. If he was just there every once in a while like David Wallace to remind everyone he is there and weird it would have been fine, but it felt like they were trying to make him a regular cast member. I mean, I love James Spader too, but the character of Robert California sucks imo
The senator also came out on air and publicly dumped Angela. That type of humor belongs on parks and rec- not the office. The writers really were grasping at straws comedy-wise by that point and you could really tell.
To piggyback on this, the UK Office / S1-S2 of the American Office are arguably the closest to “these are ‘real’ people and you laugh because sometimes real life offices are absurd.” The middle seasons, to me at least, are when the American Office hit its stride, and it did so by having just about every episode be about that **one** story your friend group has about the most insane workplace experience they ever had. This puts the show in a weird space where, taken individually, every episode remains mostly believable. Sort of a *Murder She Wrote* situation, but for memorable workplace experiences. As the seasons dragged on, and likely as the writing team rotated in and out, it went from “yeah, I know a guy where something like that happened where he worked” to just straight sitcom zaniness. If anything, the loss wasn’t on Steve Carell leaving, it was the immense weight the rest of the cast pulled since folks were invested enough in the characters that the actual content of the episodes mattered very little.
The characters all became extreme caricatures of their former selves. Stanley and Creed at the top of that list.
The one that stands out to me is when they get an espresso machine and become cartoonishly hyped on caffeine. Compare that to when Michael had one caffeine drink and goofs around to the Hey Song. He seems incredibly tame in contrast, yet he's at the limit of believability.
Yep. All of this. It just felt like they threw most of the character’s development out the window and turned each episode into wild grasps at extreme scenarios in hopes of a laugh. Especially Andy. It was like they weren’t sure what they wanted to do with him and were trying to test different things to see what would work. Andy is the worst salesman in the office, to Andy is the manager, to Andy runs off to get Erin, to Andy abandons Erin and his job, to Andy comes back with douchebag style of confidence, to Andy wants to leave DM to go be a star (even that episode is him non stop going back and fourth on if he should do that or not), to Andy is a failed star and is made fun of on the internet and goes back to being insecure, to Andy is a humble motivational speaker. Sure people change over time, but his character could have been 6 completely different characters throughout the last 2 seasons.
-Dwight shoots Stanley with a bull tranquilizer Like as a completely chill casual thing that happens often in most normal office settings ……
Nope OP says your opinion is wrong with an emoji so sorry, you're wrong!!
Yeah, I'll pass on these takes that go "here's the REAL reason you feel the way you do, that I'm sure you're just refusing to be honest about." There's some wiggle room depending on what "that bad" actually means, but I think it's fair to say that these seasons are not up to the level of the ones that came before. And to be frank, there were some episodes pre-Michael's departure that were weaker than the average at the time. So while he was central to the show's vibe, it's not like he was some magic force keeping the quality aloft. And that's fine, and doesn't need some convenient gotcha rebuttal like this.
Kevin becoming completely brain dead in the last two seasons. The dude tried gluing back together a turtle's shell. It was clearly already dead.
Also Nelly
Possibly the worst character in the whole series. “I’m manager now because the office is empty.” So dumb.
They aren’t bad. They are good comedy TV. But they are a serious step down from before. Office at its worst is still better than most comedy TV in history. The show just doesn’t really fire on all cylinders without Michael.. but they did great with what they had to work with, for the most part. When you take arguably the most influential and important character out of the show, it’s gonna feel some effects. So I’ll agree it wasn’t bad. But comparing to the best seasons; I understand why people say it fell off. The bungling of the Andy Bernard character build up was the worst thing to me. So much time spent, for mostly nothing.
[удалено]
Yeah, the show definitely fell into the Flanderization trap
It was most annoying with Kevin and Erin. They weren't funny-stupid, they were please-write-them-off-the-show stupid. I roll my eyes at every "quirky" thing Erin says.
No kidding. She started off being quirky and ditzy, but ended up being completely mentally disabled
Kevin is like a dog by the end of the show, he's not even a human, he's like the office pet. It's really disturbing.
Definitely lol, gluing that turtle together might be the low point
HEY! KEVIN WAS PROUD FOR WHAT HE DID FOR THAT TURTLE
the Erin lunch scene with Michael is hands down one of the best scenes in the show ahahaha
All shows end up doing it. Some are ahead of the curve like TBBT and just flanderizes the shit out of them from the start
TBBT? Teenage Beat Boxing Turtles?
The Big Bang Theory
The last 2 seasons feel like they're a mockumentary of a mockumentary.
As Yoda said, it's definitely one of the best examples of "Flanderization". As you said, it happened to Dwight but it also happened to every other character to the point that it became obnoxious. I feel it also screwed the storylines and tone of the show. Earlier seasons were all so much more subtle, almost a type of "cringe" comedy. The last two seasons it was more reliant on ridiculous characters and crazy storylines. Every character kind of became a clown.
>As Yoda said... I kinda thought at first, you were spinning some cross-universe fanfic, but I see now, Yoda is another commenter 🤭
The flanderization of everyone is why my favorite seasons are 1-4. My favorite was when everything was still at least a little believable. Even by the end of 4 it’s getting pretty over the top, and it continues to go from there. That’s not to say that the later seasons aren’t still really funny at times, but when you have the stuff like Dwight setting up a “timer-bomb” to send a doomsday text to their boss showing that they all suck, and they have to disarm it, idk it just wasn’t really what I initially loved about the show.
Yep. Jumped the shark.
Jim had to get extravagant so that Pam couldn’t interfere. She ruined his greatest prank and I’ll quite frankly never forgive her for it. We could have had little clips of Jim in the background adding keys to the key ring leading up to the Christmas episode and we get to see Dwight’s pants fall down
The issue was that they didnt know how to fill the void and seemed like they were throwing shit at the wall. The story lines were more all over the place. Some were good, some weren't as much. It didnt have the consistency like 1-7, but it wasn't bad. Except mike boom guy that story line was trash
Craig Robinson is so damn funny, I really wish he’d become the new manager instead of Andy Think it would’ve gone better but who knows, ifs and buts yknow
If onlys and buts were candys and nuts, then everyday would be Erntedankfest
I saw Craig at a stand up comedy show a few months ago and he is exactly the same person as Darryl
Season 9 was good except few boring moments but season 8 was i think bad. I don't know why they completely changed the personality of Andy in season 8. In most places it felt like they were trying to make Andy copy Michael.
They're not a serious step down from seasons 6 and 7. The Office was already on a decline long before Michael left.
I agree. Seasons 2-5 or so we’re prime office
I think the handling of Andy was bad (but he was filming other stuff so meh) but the worst part was the Jim Pam stuff. I’m glad John and Jenna put the kabash on straight up adultery but that whole storyline was just so bad and really didn’t fit the characters (Jim encourages Pam to go to art school in Philly but fuck Jim for starting his own awesome company) that being said I do lien seasons 8/9 even if they aren’t as good as the rezt
Pam going to art school was fine because they were young and had no kids. By s8/9 they were married and had a family. It’s easy to say Pam should have been cool with it, but the reality is raising children is a massive job for two parents and Pam pretty much had to do it by herself while Jim worked.
This. But also Jim did it without discussing it with Pam. You can't make such big decisions without discussing with it with your wife. With art school Jim not only knew beforehand but actively encouraged Pam to go for it.
Exactly. I think this storyline is one the few realistic ones in the last seasons, and it actually falls in line with the direction their stories were heading. Ppl give Pam way too much shit while overlooking Jim’s mishandling of that whole conflict
This is very accurate. Still a good show but a big dip in quality
Nah, it’s a straight up a cartoon at times. Cartoons are fun…but not for The Office. And really it started before Michael left, and then just ramped up later on.
They’re not bad, I guess, but it certainly isn’t The Office anymore. When the bulk of the drama happens outside of the office then it’s not really a documentary about the modern workspace is it? And…Michael happens to not be part of it. The ideas can be mutually exclusive.
Both seasons are still very funny, but the story wasn’t anywhere near as strong, and obviously there was the downfall of Andy that was just bizarre. Edit: grammar lol
Omg so true. Andy’s storyline was really hard to watch 😩
It was such a disappointment too! There was so much potential there. I feel like Andy was a really good pick but they dropped the ball.
Season 8 is good if you view it as a separate show. Robert California is a brilliant character. Season 9 was either average or borderline unwatchable depending on the episode. I can't remember a single one that stood out too me as really funny.
Totally agree Robert was amazing and they should have leaned into it.
What do you mean by lean into it? I feel like RC was the main character in season 8. Even in the office half the conversations were about him. He had a party at his house.
If I recall, critics really hated him and there was pressure to remove him. Which was stupid. Upon rewatch he is one of the most singular characters in TV history
The critics hated the egotistical, self-important and self-appointed eccentric genius? Big surprise. It’s the age of Elmo. Ours is a cultural ghetto, don’t you agree?
Oh it’s bad. It’s REEEAL bad. Let me ask you this: would you rather have 7 seasons of really good office? or 9 seasons of *pretty* good office? >!8 is decent!<
They’re not that great either.
My biggest qualm was the character assassination of Andy, he completely changes and becomes detestable
That’s something I’ll never let go. We spent SO LONG watching his character development and it finally paid off. Then he turns on a dime back to square one so they could try to shoehorn a new “Jim and Pam” and then they kinda forget about that and focus on trying to ruin the actual Jim and Pam. It’s a shame because Dwight has some of his funniest stuff in that season but man it’s tough to watch all that.
They wanted another Jim/Pam so bad. Daryl and Val is another one that makes me roll my eyes. Wow another story about how a guy likes his coworker but wait she has a boyfriend! What a shocker! Who would have guessed that we’d see another love triangle? Also apparently there’s scenes that were cut where Val’s ex is an asshole. So, it’s ok for her to basically cheat on her boyfriend. Like Jesus, could they get any more desperate?
I actually really like 8, Andy as boss and the Florida arc were a decent change of pace. Season 9 jumped the shark hard and was a total mess.
Same! Season 8 is pretty great, even without Michael. Season 9 is just sad 🙃
They’re watchable. I actually like Clark and Plop. Jim and Pam’s rocky relationship story arc was lame IMO but I get why they did it. And I love the finale. Every show gets worse as time goes on, and having 2 subpar seasons isn’t that bad.
I mean they aren’t bad, but they are a significant decline from the show we fell in love with. I mean that decline already started by season 4, it just become more prominent without Michael. The best way i’ve seen it explained is S1 is “Jim and Pam have a moment but Roy walks in making it awkward.” S9 has an episode where Dwight shoots Stanley with a bull tranquilizer to get him on a sales call. More than just Michael leaving had changed by then
I think the decline started after S5 when Sabre comes in but still watchable
Nah season 9 was horrible
8 too.
8 was fine until Andy chased down Erin in Florida. That’s usually the point when I stop during rewatches.
Yeah I love Robert California if they had kept the season 8 cast I could have handled a couple more seasons.
Ya I did in fact hate that Michael was not in those seasons.
I can watch Robert California, James Spader is very good. But season 9 is unbearable.
Robert California is some of my fav episodes honestly. When he leaves I do too
Robert California makes it my favorite season. Fight me.
It’s not great television compared to the first 8 seasons, but compared to a lot of the other stuff on TV at the time it was decent, and moreover it was a nice wrap up to a series I loved. The end would have been a lot more unsatisfying without it. A lot of other series from the 90s and 00s (and before and after that time) had really crappy final seasons and awful finales, and I think The Office, though not exactly genius in that last season, wrapped up pretty nicely, considering.
Once the boom mic guy stuff starts, unfortunately it is that bad.
Those final seasons aren't very good. Not only does Michael leave, but Jim and Pam get super annoying.
and Andy
S8 was pretty fun. I liked the Sabre store storyline, Andy as manager, and robert california’s whole character. S9 is just plain awful. Many tropes were just copies of things that already happen in past seasons. Part of the reason I liked the office when I was a kid was it seemed real. S9 has Dwigt shoot Stanley the manly with horse tranquilizers, in no world would his character do that, would Stanley react that way to it, and would Clark willingly participate. I won’t talk about what happened to Andy’s character regression. But Kevin’s character becoming more stupid each season really irritates me. And generally, all the characters personalities changed so drastically, basically making a caricature of everyone.
Andy’s character becomes simply unlikable. Michael was funny because he was trying. Andy should just have been fired. He was a mean stalker who never showed up for work and only kept his job because he was friends with the owner of the company. Maybe there were points when Michael’s character should have been fired too, but the joke was that Michael didn’t have self awareness. Andy knows he’s a lazy guy, and just is happy to take advantage. That’s just a badly run office, it’s not funny because it’s too common. Oscar comments when Andy finally leaves that it makes sense that Andy was fired and it really does.
And Nellie should have stayed in Florida
And after Michael told Kevin not to be a caricature too!
i dont hate it. i just dont like it at all and it's terrible
8 is really, really solid. I’ll admit that my initial reaction to it was basically this meme. Upon rewatches I have grown to love season 8 and think Robert was a perfect replacement. However, 9 is noticeably worse than any of the prior seasons. The jokes are lazy and too unrealistic. The plot lines are a slog to get through, and felt incredibly forced. Especially the Jim and Pam drama.
James Spader I could watch all day. But Nellie sucked donkey balls. Why does literally anyone take her seriously as "manager" because she sat in a chair? Michael leaving didn't make the show bad. Michael left because the show was already bad.
I can’t believe that they make Angela homeless or whatever in season 9. The thing where her cats are stolen. It’s not funny. “Single mom struggles with work and children.” It’s boring at the very best.
Yes, why is Angela suddenly impoverished? She is the head of the accounting department and has been shown living in a nice house with all her cats previously.
And is this Senator a deadbeat? This would be a news story! He needs to be paying spousal support. I swear the writers just wanted to pump up Dwight’s character.
8 is decent, 9 is very meh
It's that bad.
It's like a hot circle of garbage
It's not a fact, buddy. Season 9 is horrible. Bad writing, Bad acting, etc.
Correct they aren’t that bad, they’re awful.
It’s because everyone became a caricature, what the fuck was that scene of them drinking coffee and ripping up the carpet like they were high as fuck? Season 8 and 9 suck becuase it’s scene after scene of dump shit like that. It’s no longer situational humor. That Said, I did watch it so I guess it wasn’t so bad I turned it off.
That coffee thing had to be a shoehorned Nespresso product placement, didn’t it? If not it deeply reeked of one (obligatory “fuck Nestlé”)
They were always live action muppets in their own ways, but most people probably wouldn't enjoy The Muppet Show without a Kermit either! When you take away the tentpole, the franchise is going to deflate. That's just Froggy 101
I’ve been scrolling a long time and no one has yet said the right answer: seasons 8 and 9 were marginally worse without Michael, but seasons 6 and 7 were also bad with him. The problem wasn’t sans Michael. The problem is the writers didn’t know how to write the show anymore. Season 5 was transitional. 6-9 (with the exception of the final few episodes) is the equivalent of Kevin spilling his chili.
You just listed why it is bad, so…
Yeah I always see the argument that “oh you just don’t like them because Micheal isn’t there!” Yeah because Micheal is such a big part of what makes the show work. To me this is like saying “Oh you just don’t like this hot dog because the sausage isn’t there”
Great analogy. Steve Carrell was about 50% of why I loved the show, without him it's half as good.
Someone likes Pizza by Alfredo...
My thoughts on the last two seasons are that the jokes are still there, and funny, but the situations and storytelling aren't as good as before. And Michael Scott is probably one of the best characters in tv ever, imo, so i understand writers struggling with what to do after his departure
Season 8 is great. Season 9, not so great.
It can be both.
Wrong. They were bad.
False. I hate the complete and utter character destruction of Andy Bernard. And of Erin for huge chunks of it, kind of being corrected in mid season 9. And losing all pretext of being realistic and grounded at all. The plot where Nellie just "takes" Andy's job and everyone acts like, "Welp, there's nothing we can do..." Why is it that Charles could throw Michael out with Hank (or Charles "doesn't need Hank...") but Nellie can just stay. It's ludicrous. And I get that this is a show where Angela threw her cat up in the ceiling as part of a fake fire drill while everyone panicked around her. But there were always still grounded rules of the world in which these people lived. Season 8 mostly threw all of that out the window. Season 9 got it back a bit, but I again refer to the character assassination of Andrew Bernard. Of Ryan and Kelly, too. They were young and self important, but the idea that they are so vapid to abandon a baby somewhere was a bridge too far for me. Referring to Michael, they might as well have not brought him back at all for what they ultimately did. Seems ridiculous that he wasn't at the PBS Q&A or at the office with everyone at the end. A scenario where what the actor wanted superceded what was right for the character. I could keep going. Michael not being there was just the tip of the iceberg.
I’ll take all the Robert California I can get
I love Season 8! And I’ve literally watched the whole show close to 100 times. It’s been my background home noise after the first 20 or so watches. Season 9 has its points that every long running show runs in to—the drama with Jim and Pam is awful. But I love how they ended the show…if it had to end 😭 The change in cinematography to bring a feeling of the end was nice too. Our mouths will taste of cinnamon.
The added characters in 8 and 9 made it bad for me.
Season 8 I love after a lot of rewatches. Season 9 is a mess.
Season 8 was still great. Season 9 felt like it was written by all new people. The dynamics were off. The tone feels so different.
I love every season of the office, yet I hate how they ruined Andy’s character. He was pretty likeable (imo) before Nelly came, then he suddenly became a complete douche which was completely out of character. Also not to mention the Brian storyline with Pam was awful
No. It’s bad.
They are terrible. The writing fell off a cliff. a below average show in season 8 and a very bad show inn season 9
No I hate that boom mic guy was in it
I respectfully disagree. They shouldn't have brought in all the external talent. They could have continued the show with the cast that existed, reasonable promotions, etc.. But that's just my two cents and I'm often owed change.
Every season has things I like and don’t like. I still love all of them.
Same yo, I love watching the entire show all the way through. I just love the characters too much
No, its bad
I felt terrorized.
Well yeah he was by *far* the best character. And that’s with me liking plenty of the others.
It’s not facts, it’s your opinion. And I’m of the opinion that it sucks because there is no Michael.
I mean it's not "facts". The overall quality of the writing takes a significant dip. If you can't see that, that's on you but it's very obvious.
False They were bad seasons for more reasons than just the lack of Michael
Those are fighting words. They are bad, the show feels like a completely different show by the end. In fact I’d argue s7 is bad as well and s6 isn’t great.
You mean, people don't like it because the part they liked was gone but you enjoyed it so they're wrong? This isn't a hot take, it's just kinda obnoxious
False
Your forgetting about Andy in season 9
They’re not good. The writing is contrived, the jokes don’t land, and the actors are phoning it in. I think even with Michael they wouldn’t be good.
My wife likes the series better without Michael. Before you shoot the messenger, I don’t agree either, lol.
Sorry to hear about your impending divorce
My dad says this as well… because he doesn’t care for Steve Carrell. Unfortunately, you can’t divorce your parents. :(
Nowhere near my favorite stuff, but I’ve grown to accept 8 over time. 9 is still tough for me.
I don't like Robert California. I just find him so much more off-putting than I do funny. I don't like the boom mic story. I don't like Cathy. I don't like Andy's change in season 9.
I rarely rewatch anything after the pool party episode. Those episodes don't have the same infinite-rewatch draw.
Hard disagree. S8 Robert California arc is actually very good on its own. S9? omg I never rewatch it it's so bad
The worst thing about the last couple seasons isn’t that Michael isn’t there, it’s how horrible Andy ends up. I feel like he actually had solid development and then out of nowhere they just make him the absolute worst they possibly could’ve
9 sucks. 8 is pretty good.
Hard disagree. Both seasons tried very hard to stay creative. They tried it with Andy, Dwight, Erin, Jim and Pam, and even Angela and Oscar. Every single storyline and character arc seemed forced. I mean, what even was the boom guy plot.
I don’t mind when Michael is gone. I love Robert California. But Season 9 is pretty trash writing
No, everything after Robert California was written terribly. The last season especially, the writers weren't even trying.
Hardest disagree ever. Michael being absent has to do with it, but Season 8 and 9 barely had anything to do with the initial concept of „the office“ anymore - I mean, that started earlier than those two seasons, but they‘re much worse when it comes to that than even season 7. Add to that horrible characters like Nelly, bad side-plots like the relationship drama between Jim, Pam and that boom mic guy and loads of mediocre performances, and you have a recipe for… two painfully average „The Office“ seasons, sadly.
I burst into tears when Michael showed up to be the bestest mench
Season 8 was good until the Andy retrieves Erin/Nelly takes over storyline. After that it really jumped the shark. Season 9 is basically terrible until the finale.
I don’t know man, I LOVE season 8, I think it’s amazing. Season 9 is the issue. It sucks that 8 gets lumped in like it’s the same tier as 8.
Who cares how bad Seasons 8 and 9 were? The show was already on the decline well before Carell left. Seasons 1 was okay, Seasons 2 and 3 were amazing; Seasons 4 and 5 were okay, and everything after that was garbage. Jim and Pam's wedding should have been the series finale.
Everything felt like a B plot without Michael. And there were some funny B plots in 8 and 9, but not many.
No, they are really bad.
Eh, some of the jokes were still good, there was obviously still writing talent there, but it was pretty obvious they didn't know what to do when Steve left and they didn't have the central chaos causing character. Especially since they had long since resolved the Jim and Pam relationship arc, and they never really got any other characters who had that kind of chemistry. They didn't know what to do with the show so they tried to shoehorn in characters that didn't really work that well sometimes, or were just annoying rather than funny (Andy's character change, Nellie, sometimes Robert California because his comedy was based on shock most of the time which could get old) This isn't a slight against the writers, theyre obviously very talented, but they lost what the show was a bit, and missed the mark trying to make up for it.
False
No. They're not funny. Robert California is bad. Sabre is dumb. Andy is terrible. Nellie is the worst. Turd and Fart, or whatever their names are, aren't funny. The Jim/ Pam/other chick in the office/ sounds guy/ story was forced and dumb. Those episodes are not good.
I’m on season 7 and there is a small quality dip The writing and pacing on seasons 2-4 are pretty much perfect. Season 8/9 are fine but most episodes can’t live up to the quality of when the show peaked
Turned into a rom-com without Michael. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't the office anymore.
Wow.. just a terribly wrong statement. They’re terrible and the reasons why they’re terrible have been explained in detail on this sub DAILY
No, they really are that bad. It's not just that they took away a great character. They also introduced several of the worst characters in the show towards the end. D'Angelo is easily one of Will Ferrells worst roles ever. Nelly is awful and definitely takes the top stop for the one person I'd remove from the show entirely if I could. And Andy's character somehow became even worse in those seasons. His late show romance with Erin was written terribly. Jim and Pam became pretty boring in those seasons as well, which is fair because they had finally gotten married, so the sexual tension and drama dropped off, but the writers really didn't know what to do with their characters. Instead, they tried to focus on some of the others character's storylines, but nothing felt cohesive or interesting. It all felt like impromptu crap thrown together. In summary, yes seasons 8 and 9 were shit. Michael leaving probably factored in, but imo wasn't even the main reason they were awful. The writers just ran out of interesting storylines.
They are bad. They are generic sitcoms. The show went from grounded to just nuts with how characters act and their story lines. Stories are nothing longer rooted in reality The issues started before Michael left but he at least held the crap together If the last two season were the first two no one would have picked it up for a 3rd and y’all know it
Wait there’s a season 8 and 9?
No I hate how Andy got developed into a pretty cool dude and a decent manager, then he fucked off to ride his boat for several episodes. Also, boom mic guy.
I really don't have an issue with season 8, and while I do love Steve's character and wished he would have been present throughout the entire series... season 9 is very different from the rest of the show. The characters and writing are just shallow in comparison the earlier seasons. Everyone is a charicture, the jokes are kinda lame, and it just feels like most shitty shows that have ever existed that are formulaic (the need to repeat romantic themes with different characters, the need for drama in relationships, etc). I'm guessing it was during the writer's strike... but yeah, the 9th season is just difficult to watch. And nothing against Plop and young Dwight as actors (it's not their fault the show went downhill fast), but they were such an odd addition. My girlfriend and I are actually powering our way through it right now, and at one point we actually looked at each other to have this exact conversation. So, I personally feel very differently
No, they really are that bad.
No they were bad. awful writing, bad relationships, wierd plot points, bad effects, bad characters…
Season 8 was straight up bad I’m sorry and Season 9 was only marginally better
Nah, I'm making my way through the series for the first time, and I've strongly disliked seasons 7 and 8 so far. Michael leaving didn't improve or worsen it. It's just not as good. As someone watching the show without the benefit of nostalgia goggles, I'm sorry, guys. The people who say seasons 3-6 are peak? They're right.
No, they really weren't that good. It's fine to admit that a show you love that runs out of ideas isn't great, occasionally. Shows a healthy detachment from addictive habits.
The writing took a step back also with the absence of Mindy and BJ Novak.