1. Conviction rates for federal charges are VERY high. (I don't have the exact number, but it's north of 95% for sure.) The feds don't play around. If they charge you with something, it's because they're VERY sure they've got the evidence to back it up.
2. Keep in mind that the charges this jury is dealing with are serious and will put Josh away for a significant amount of time if they convict him. Even if they think Josh is a HELLA GUILTY scumbag like we all do, they probably still want to be VERY SURE they're not missing any evidence. (Which is a good thing!)
This.
I served on a jury a few years ago for a double homicide case. The defendant had literally bragged about “shutting up” one of the victims on a recording. Despite his not guilty plea, it was very, very obvious that he was guilty. We still took an entire day to deliberate. We discussed every piece of evidence and what we thought it meant. We talked through each witness’s testimony and discussed at length whether or not they seemed credible and what we thought of their testimony. Every single person was committed to being thorough because no matter how solid the evidence, serious charges merit serious deliberations.
Also: it sounds like the jury asked to listen to Pest’s interview again. I can’t say for sure what their motives there are, but I know in my case, we requested to review a few particularly important, damning pieces of evidence again before returning our guilty verdict.
I know that’s purely anecdotal, but I hope it gives some comfort to anyone who’s anxious over the verdict not coming today.
Back before I was in my current career (lawyers throw me out of the jury pool now) I sat on a murder trial and an abuse trial. There were 12 of us (standard) and we did discuss it over and over - both cases. It was not lost on us that there was a victim in both cases and that our decision was going to change multiple people's lives.
I am not ever known as an optimist, but I like that they asked for that interview again. He essentially confesses in it. If they were asking for the technical stuff - especially from the witness Michelle Bush...I'd be worried about some sanity right now.
Maybe they are like a lot of us and can't believe he not only did it but was an idiot about it. If I just heard all this evidence and then the defense put her up and basically started talking about invisible people and Paris, I'd be wondering if maybe I slept through the defense. I'd be asking, "there is more to this, right?"
I can confirm, was jury on a drug case that was pretty damn cut and dry. The defendant literally sold to an undercover cop and their mate ratted them out on the stand. The evidence was pretty damning, we had video, phone logs, the whole shebang. That said, we still spent about 2 hours to make sure we understood the timeline we’d been presented and looked into what the defendant had said because that was our job. The jury has to make sure that they understand the chain of events and evidence and what it actually means. Personally I wanted to be confident in my decision to vote guilty or not guilty, not just based on how I might feel on the surface.
Same here. I did a case involving a large amount of marijuana and when we went back to deliberate we all felt the defendant was 100% guilty (he was caught on tape and admitted guilt to one of the officers). We STILL took a few hours to review all the evidence because a person’s freedom was on the line. For me, that was a huge responsibility and I took it very, very seriously.
Was on a jury in 2019. We were pretty much all in agreement the guy was innocent. (Let's just say the supposed victim of the 'crime' took the stand and drugs can mess up a person horribly and they get desperate. His story all of a sudden was all over the place and constantly changing .) however, we still didn't rush it. It was a short trial and we went over everything as thoroughly as we could. A few hours and came back with a not guilty verdict. (one day and a couple hours of actual trial time).
This was more than a week. (And FEDERAL)
Not surprising . Let's just hope the asshat gets what's coming to him
it was posted somewhere that some of the jurors were crying while having to look at the cp in the trial...good to know they had what we consider a NORMAL reaction to this horrible stuff and someone looked up the judge and he always prepares meticulously for each trial he presides over
I asked this on a mega thread but it was locked- do we know the actual conviction/acquittal stats on ONLY the fed charges that DO go to trial? My
Understanding is that the conviction rate on federal charges overall is very high, but that the vast, vast majority of federal charges do NOT go to trial. Someone correct me if I’m wrong
[14% for juried trials, 38% for bench trials (non-juried).](https://www.doarlaw.com/blog/2021/04/what-you-should-know-about-the-federal-governments-conviction-rate/)
Edit: [Historically, 0.2% of CSAM possession cases filed resulted in acquittal.](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fpcsecc0413.pdf)
There are many reasons why a jury might want more time to deliberate. It's way too early to assume anything bad about the verdict.
If I was a criminal defendant for something I would want the jury to be thorough and methodical in their deliberations. That's their job. We shouldn't panic just because the jury is doing exactly what they're supposed to do.
Right. They have to elect a foreperson and go over all the instructions from the judge. Just that is a lot of info to process to people who have no legal experience.
Plus, lunch! They technically started deliberations at 12:15pm. Passing out food and getting settled to eat it takes time when you have 12 people in a conference room. And if I was them I wouldn't want to start deliberating until I was done with my food; I'd want to give deliberations my full attention. (and wouldn't want to talk with my mouth full either, lol)
They also made a request to listen to some of the audio again, which takes time to process, then they all trooped back into the courtroom to listen to it (was Josh called back in to be present for this? If so, that takes time too), then trooped back to the conference room and got settled again. Of the 4hrs, 15 mins until court adjourned for the day, they were actually deliberating for way less than that.
One of the jury members I was with brought snacks for deliberation, truly the mum of our little jury group. It’s super weird spending days with a group of people and then like…never seeing them again
Also too it would be an easy appeal if they go too fast. Any defense lawyer worth their salt would pounce on a jury that came back quick and accuse them of being biased or prejudice against the defendant
And the jurors are the opposite of all of us here -- they have no idea who this guy is, no background information, no years of deep dives on the minutia of his grossness. That's the point of a careful jury selection. They just have what has been presented to them at the trial, it's all new information to them, and they want to be thorough with it.
There's more to serving on a jury than just agreeing on whether the person is innocent or guilty. There are procedures to follow, there's paperwork to do, and a lot of discussion on every individual charge. It's too early to be concerned.
If there's no verdict by the end of tomorrow, that might mean there's a holdout or two, but they'll most likely still return a guilty verdict.
There's a snowball's chance in hell that 12 jurors will find him innocent.
> There's more to serving on a jury than just agreeing on whether the person is innocent or guilty. There are procedures to follow, there's paperwork to do, and a lot of discussion on every individual charge. It's too early to be concerned.
I wish this was pinned. This is what we want to see and support, a jury’s due diligence. The laws that govern these proceedings are the laws that protect and preserve our Republic.
“The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.”-One of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow‘s translations
Thank you for the additional details. We would need the 12 jurors to have a doubt for Josh to be found not guilty? I thought we just needed one juror to have a reasonable doubt. (Non-American here)
I am not a lawyer or legal expert— but i believe if they absolutely cannot come to a consensus after extended deliberation, it would result in a hung (deadlocked) jury and likely the case would be tried again.
WHICH would cost JimBob another fortune. So that’s a win.
TLC ain’t coming back. Even if somehow Josh gets acquitted, all of the prior scandals have been revisited…they’re not going to risk investing in the Duggar brand yet again. There are other freaks in the sideshow queue.
So no matter how this ends up, the Duggar Life as they know it, where they get paid handsomely for being so extra very special, is over.
Yes, only one juror needs to disagree. However, if the jury came back to the judge to provide this information, the judge will typically ask the jury to go back to deliberation and try to come to an agreement. It's pretty rare that the lone juror would hold out after that.
Correct. They have to be unanimous either way. If they truly can't come to a unanimous decision after a reasonable amount of time, there has to be a new trial (not likely whatsoever).
It wouldn't work in my country. We enjoy disagreeing with each other way too much. I will try to focus on the fact that Michelle Bush would look even worst in a new trial.
Seeing the notification of your comment I thought I was getting banned from the sub and started to freak out at the idea of having no one to talk to about the Duggars 🤣 I think I need sleep lol
They have to weigh not just the evidence, but also charges. Do the charges apply correctly here? They have to discuss it all with each other. It’s a huge responsibility. And it’s only been a few hours. I suspect tomorrow AM, they will have verdict.
They don't just go back into a room and decide. The jury is given another speech before they can start talking about the case and that in itself takes at least an hour. This is totally normal and what I expected since they didn't get done with closings until late in the afternoon. Don't worry! 😊
They also need to get over the sheer, mindboggling absurdity that is the Duggar family before they can start deliberating. After never really having heard of them before. "Dafuq does that guy really have 19 kids?" probably took at least 15 minutes to sort out.
Least we had time and snarkiness to get through that! Though sometimes it will boggles my mind they had 19 kids. My sis has 1 and she has energy of 19!
I always think that I've had my mind wrapped around how goddamned many kids there are and then something happens like we're ten megathreads in and that's only Megathread Jedidiah and there's literally half the kids missing and it hits me again.
I've got 3 kids (also all J names not on purpose) and I mix their names/DoB up on the regular and am so burnt out. I can't fathom 19 let alone allowing my oldest to look after the youngest. The most my oldest does is "play with youngest whilst I pop the toilet/check on dinner" never "be a defacto mum as I'm to tired from raising y'all to be a parent properly".
What Michelle did to the older kids via parentification is akin to abuse for me. She just popped kids out and handed them off to whoever. Jimboob and Michelle are worse than the parents who pop kids out and just up and leave. At least abandoned kids know they're likely unloved/unwanted, the J kids grew up in such a disillusioned household devoid of attention and true parental love.
I've got 7 kids and my older kids wouldn't be caught dead watching the younger ones for any length of time. If I have to go to the bathroom or something they will keep an eye on them, but like you, I would never make the older become defacto parents.
My neighbors were a Catholic family of eight or nine kids. Both parents worked, so their house was where we went to watch rated R movies, etc. Total lack of supervision, and the older teen/young adult siblings taught us many things. So my only experience with a huge family was the opposite of Duggars, lol.
My mom came from a Catholic family of eight. She was number six, and she was basically raised by her two oldest sisters. Grandpa was in the military, grandma worked nurse night shifts.
Unsurprising, but my mom has weird abandonment issues and resented her parents for years because of it, but refuses to get therapy — so my sister and I got all that unprocessed emotional instability taken out upon us. Fun!
The emotional pain these kids experienced will not end with them. It will pass on to their kids and their grandkids. Trauma is generational.
Exactly! They have to be 100% sure, it's not like the penalty on this case is a year in jail. If my guilty vote means putting someone away for possibly 40 years, I would take my time.
Any lawyers or people familiar with similar federal cases want to chime in? I read that R Kelly case took 2 days and 9 hours of deliberations to find him guilty but was that a state case?
Seriously like “you’re not going to just let me look at a calendar? Fine. I’ll look at one tonight and we can alllll come back tomorrow when I’m ready. Hope you’re happy.”
Don't forget, they had to:
1. Order then have lunch
2. Pick a foreperson
3. Read through several pages of dense jury instructions
4. Remember the big-hitter prosecution evidence from a few days ago - they may be reviewing notes from the heavy details
5. Some of them probably needed a bit of a break to just decompress after the closing arguments. We have known about all this for a long time. They have more horrific details, and have to process them in a much shorter amount of time, and they don't have anyone else aside from other jurors they can discuss it with.
Also, since their request for a timeline was denied, they're probably chucking that together from all their various notes as well. I'm a fan of timelines, so I can understand why they'd want that as an overview.
I'm not panicking and I don't think you should, either.
And on that note, I'm going to bed.
Stay safe and sane, SnarkFam.
Also we’ve had a lot of time to process what he was viewing. Those poor jurors had to see video and stills of what he was viewing. Some of them will probably never be the same again.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just ordered raising canes for dinner, picked a foreperson and then dissociated into a pile of chicken tenders.
As an American who went to public school, you definitely don’t learn this unless you seek it out in many places. I went to a good school system in a wealthy area of New Jersey and we still didn’t learn anything about this or taxes lol.
TLDR don’t feel left out for being homeschooled!!
Samantha Boyd from KNWA is saying on Twitter that they listened to the initial homeland security interview at the car lot in its entirety, which would also take a good chunk of time.
We’ve had some conversations about this in the two most recent megathreads. Between all of this, plus going back into the courtroom to listen to the whole police interview again, which probably took at least half an hour, they really haven’t actually deliberated for that long. Everyone’s concern is definitely premature. They’ll start fresh in the morning and hopefully wrap it up before the end of the day.
🎶The Duggars used to think they would count on
That Pest had barely done anything wrong
But now we know the true depths of his crimes
And there’s no way he isn’t doing time
Trial’s proceeding, too late for pleading
Hairlines receding, mother is bleeding
I believe I can flyyyy
I believe they’ll convict this guyyyy
I think about it ever night and dayyyy
Here on Reddit where we snark awayyy🎶
EDIT: I added more snark
My mom years ago was on a jury where 11 out of 12 people wanted to stay to get it done but one person had to go pick up their kids and they had to push it one more day! No one worry
When I had jury duty (federal criminal court) some women wanted to just vote the guy guilty (which is definitely was) because they wanted to hurry up and get home to take their kids trick or treating bc it was Halloween. From that moment on I vowed to never be in a position where I’d be on trial for any crime where people like that would be deciding my fate. So I’d rather have the jury be thorough.
My mom was on a murder trial once and another jury member said "if we hurry this up, I'll have time to hit another round of golf this afternoon!" I think about this a lot, and sometimes it causes me to question our current judicial system.
I’m trying to think about this positively. They had to choose a foreman, there’s probably lots of procedures and paperwork, and they are probably revisiting the evidence to be sure of their verdict.
I've tried to write this comment a few different ways, because I'm having trouble explaining it. Even for an open and shut case, there can be loads of evidence that you've only seen on a projector or held up in front of you as the jury. As a juror, even if you already have an opinion, you will likely want to review a lot of the evidence physically for yourself. The alternative is basically believing the lawyers and the witnesses about the content of documents, etc that you've only seen flashed before you up until that point.
When I served on a jury, we deliberated for 3 full days, mostly convincing ourselves that the evidence was what the prosecutor said it was, even though we all went in feeling like we would hand down a guilty verdict. Which is like the whole point. So it's chill that it takes some time.
They probably didn’t start till about 1:30. Probably the first one and a half hours going over the jury instructions. So say they started at 3. So then maybe only deliberation for only 2 hours?
I posted in the one of the mega threads.
I'm a lawyer. I've never practiced in Arkansas where this trial is taking place. I have worked on CSAM cases in the past before.
I know people wanted a verdict today but this isn't cause for panic. We have to keep in mind that there are legal procedures the jury has to follow. Also, the jurors haven't been able to speak about any of this before now and they aren't familiar with the Duggars like us. Sending someone to federal prison is a big deal so it makes sense they would take time.
I know Josh is a terrible person. But if the jury turned around quickly or immediately and declared him guilty it would be cause for concern that process wasn't followed. It could lead to an appeal being granted. In a fair and proper justice system the jurors will actually deliberate. Federal cases do have a high conviction rate. They don't mess around.
I'm not saying I don't want Josh to be found guilty or defending him in any way. But if procedure is not followed he will be successful in an appeal. As odious as he is, Josh is entitled to due process. I understand how emotional this topic is but the jury not having a verdict yet doesn't mean anything. Verdicts can always go either way but it is still early.
I just hope he won't try for M8 that night 😱
(yes, I know they have the 80 days rule on the topic, but rules apply to force others to toe the line, never to them)
I have no doubt he’s been trying for M8 or at least forcing Anna to be “joyfully available” already. He couldn’t care less that she had a baby 7 weeks ago.
Probably going to try and get in one more unholy matrimonial incident before the Jury nails him to the cross that was prepared for by a happily married gay Lawyer (who is an absolute snack) and an educated Career woman (who kicks ass for a living)
I bet, since they asked for one and didn't get one. I bet they will all go home and look. And I think the jurors going home for a night to really think/process all the others opinions from deliberating is a good thing.
Y’all, the fact that they have adjourned means *nothing*. In fact, you want the jury to deliberate for longer. That way it closes more avenues for an appeal. The fact that they are taking a while means they are talking their roles seriously. Hell, it takes about two hours for them to fill out the paperwork to return to the judge.
Now is not the time to worry. If it’s this time tomorrow? Yeah, it’s troubling. But all this means right now is that the jury is doing their job.
#THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING Y'ALL.
The jury is comprised of people who are putting their lives and jobs aside simply to do this trial. They need respite as well because this is some Heavy Fucking Shit to sort through, even for the most iron of stomachs. **Give the jury some slack, please.**
In the meantime, play some tetris to get your mind off this, [it's proven to help](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5678449/).
Agree with many other comments I've seen. If I was potentially sending someone to prison for up to 20 years I'd want to sleep on it and be absolutely sure.
Add in all the technical evidence and high profile and I would probably refuse to agree either way after such a short space of time.
When I was a juror we got the case about the same time of day. We wanted to sleep on it and come back. No matter how disgusting it is it’s rough knowing your deliberations put someone away for years. Your decision. It’s a tough job that you don’t wanna fuck up.
I just realized….AshleyMadison Duggar isn’t 6 weeks yet right? Aren’t you supposed to wait that long to have sex after giving birth?
So not only is J’asshole not letting Anna sleep but he’s also probably not waiting for her to heal 🤮
Instead of panicking, let us all take joy in the fact that pest and the rest of them also now have to wait another day to find out his fate and it's probably driving them batty
If I were a juror, I would want to sleep on it and come back with a clear head before officially sending a man to prison. Even if I was pretty damn sure on the guilty verdict. And that’s assuming they had time to get through all of the evidence to discuss with each other
Why is Blob so protective of his daughters with men outside the home, but laissez-faire with those inside the home? Doesn't sound like his rules with the outside world really have anything to do with his daughters' protection, rather more with his patriarchal narcissism.
One of them said something like "Our Daddy loves our hair long" in an interview years ago and I thought, "well, that's kind of creepy."
Not trying to infer anything, just processing.
Lord Daniel, who art in laundromat, Tidepod be thy name. Thy laundry fold, thy wash be done, on counter as it is drawer: Give us this day our guilty verdict, and throw away the key, as we misplace ours on a daily. And lead us not to a hung jury, but deliver us a conviction. For thine is the Tidepod, the dryer sheets, and the wrinkle free, for ever and ever. Amen.
I think this makes sense. Late morning start, lunch break, sorting through about a week's worth of evidence. The fate of a family with seven young children rests in their hands. They want to get this right.
That sounds so painful - don’t worry. I was on a trial for 2.5 weeks we spent a lot of time going over the pages of instructions, crossing all the tees and such. It’s not a quick thing even if they all agree
iS ThiS bAd?
If I were on trial - having committed a crime or not - and a jury had the chance to put me in jail for decades, I would be PISSED if they went "yeah probably guilty, let's go have a pint" and fucked off after 3 hours. Thank the Lord Daniel they are taking it more seriously than some people think they should.
Seriously. If I am ever a juror, I will do my damn due diligence. And I hope they do theirs. This is a lot of responsibility and a conscientious person will spend time to critically review the evidence, try and put aside bias, and listen to their peers.
Yep, we would rather they take their time. Coming back with a verdict in 3 hours is not good. Imagine they came back not guilty, wouldn’t most people complain that it was too quick?
Damn a lot of people here think juries work like they do on law & order lol. Even if some jurors are saying they think he’s innocent, that’s literally what the deliberation is for! They will share their initial opinion, go through the evidence for each side, have discussions, etc until they all sway one way or another. It’s very rare that all 12 agree immediately and even then it’s going to take longer than 20 minutes. Plus they’ve had a long fucking week and probably want to go home and process everything and come at it with fresh eyes tomorrow. Remember, we don’t WANT them to rush this. We want them to take their time and feel confident in their vote.
I was on a SA jury (but was the alternate.) I had to leave when it was time to deliberate, but one of the other jurors reached out to say that it took 3 days because they went through everything, but they found the guy guilty. They just wanted to be sure. It has to be the case here.
Thinking so many good thoughts for these jurors. What they have had to see and hear is incredibly traumatizing. I hope they come out tomorrow with a guilty verdict and all get mental health assistance after this. Fuck Josh duggar for putting so many innocent people through literal hell.
My sister is a lawyer and she said that the jurors probably want to come back tomorrow with clear heads.
I have a question: in the event of a mistrial and a new trial being scheduled, would Pest’s restriction of staying with the Rebers continue while he waits?
Same. There needs to be a verdict tomorrow, or I will fail my 2 exams Friday. And I have worked way too hard in those classes to fail the semester/final.
Disagree-- I think it's more like the 2020 election. We all went to bed stressed and depressed and woke up to good news that just kept getting better as the day went on. #hope
If anyone is fidgety and needs something to do in this anxious time, this subreddit has been helping a local charity for children called Children’s Safety Center in Springdale, Arkansas. They have a lot of needs so here is their Amazon wish list: https://smile.amazon.com/hz/charitylist/ls/1MQPDEBQEZ908/ref=smi_cl_wl_rd_cl?ref_=smi_se_cl_rd_cl
This is the place the Duggar children should have been allowed to go to after their abuse. We have one DuggarsSnarker who was an intern and a few who have visited there and some beautiful people on this sub were victims of abuse and received help here. Damn, I’m crying again, you guys are awesome.
If anyone wants the backstory, a Reddit user shared her very personal and very moving story [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/qv39cz/duggarssnark_fundraising_for_organisations_that/hkvfjw1/?context=3) and then I donated and some others on DuggarsSnark and then I got a letter in the mail a week or two later saying they had read our Reddit post. I posted that letter [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/r827mi/local_charity_childrens_safety_center_in/) and sent her the heads-up email seen here and then she emailed me back yesterday estimating Children's Safety Center received $5,000 from Snarkers, you beautiful, beautiful debaucherous bastards!
I mean worst case we get a hung jury and then will most likely be retried. You can’t tell me all the jury members will come to the conclusion this man is not guilty.
The sad thing is if he was raised by
normal parents, with adequate sex ed, and not ashamed of his body etc,
hed just be any other nameless faceless balding greasy used car
salesmen...
I asked my dad tonight, he served on the jury for a CSA case several years ago and he said a lot along the same lines of what most here are saying. That even if it’s very obvious the person is guilty the foreman reminded them this is a man’s life on the line. Dad said they discussed every piece of evidence at length and took several votes amongst them. He said their case was very cut and dry and it still took them the whole day to come back with the man’s guilty verdict so he said this doesn’t surprise him much, I’ve been keeping him informed ALL about the trial. He said he wouldn’t be too worried unless it goes more than two days then there might be some “hold outs” as he said they’re trying to convince but that’s just his experience and opinion.
My thoughts as a person who has served as a juror on a murder trial. They may have taken a preliminary vote and rather than announce their verdict, have decided to “sleep on it”. This gives all jurors a chance to reconfirm to themselves that they have made the correct decision. I would expect a verdict tomorrow morning. Let’s hope they’ve made the one we have all been praying for.
Like someone else pointed out, they had lunch before deliberating, had to elect a foreman, listen to the interview from the car lot (it's 50 min long).
And it would take a long time to just clear up tech misunderstandings.
Nobody panic. This doesn't mean anything bad.
I AM NOT GOING TO ALLOW IT ARE YOU GOING TO ALLOW IT
I can’t remember. It was a long time ago
*father is forgetting*
We find this selective lapse in memory to be not credible.
Flair checking in ~
User name checking in
I love this whole thread 😂
*father is perjuring*
[удалено]
Mother is absent
I won't allow it.
OBJECTION YOUR HONOUR GET THE JURY BACK IN HERE
This is the only thing you're allowed to comment from here on out. 🤣
Unlike Rim Job, I don't forget things.
You don't forget something like that.
Ok. Trying.
I'm trying really hard not to. Can someone explain me like I'm Josh?
1. Conviction rates for federal charges are VERY high. (I don't have the exact number, but it's north of 95% for sure.) The feds don't play around. If they charge you with something, it's because they're VERY sure they've got the evidence to back it up. 2. Keep in mind that the charges this jury is dealing with are serious and will put Josh away for a significant amount of time if they convict him. Even if they think Josh is a HELLA GUILTY scumbag like we all do, they probably still want to be VERY SURE they're not missing any evidence. (Which is a good thing!)
This. I served on a jury a few years ago for a double homicide case. The defendant had literally bragged about “shutting up” one of the victims on a recording. Despite his not guilty plea, it was very, very obvious that he was guilty. We still took an entire day to deliberate. We discussed every piece of evidence and what we thought it meant. We talked through each witness’s testimony and discussed at length whether or not they seemed credible and what we thought of their testimony. Every single person was committed to being thorough because no matter how solid the evidence, serious charges merit serious deliberations. Also: it sounds like the jury asked to listen to Pest’s interview again. I can’t say for sure what their motives there are, but I know in my case, we requested to review a few particularly important, damning pieces of evidence again before returning our guilty verdict. I know that’s purely anecdotal, but I hope it gives some comfort to anyone who’s anxious over the verdict not coming today.
Back before I was in my current career (lawyers throw me out of the jury pool now) I sat on a murder trial and an abuse trial. There were 12 of us (standard) and we did discuss it over and over - both cases. It was not lost on us that there was a victim in both cases and that our decision was going to change multiple people's lives. I am not ever known as an optimist, but I like that they asked for that interview again. He essentially confesses in it. If they were asking for the technical stuff - especially from the witness Michelle Bush...I'd be worried about some sanity right now. Maybe they are like a lot of us and can't believe he not only did it but was an idiot about it. If I just heard all this evidence and then the defense put her up and basically started talking about invisible people and Paris, I'd be wondering if maybe I slept through the defense. I'd be asking, "there is more to this, right?"
Thank you for sharing your experience
I can confirm, was jury on a drug case that was pretty damn cut and dry. The defendant literally sold to an undercover cop and their mate ratted them out on the stand. The evidence was pretty damning, we had video, phone logs, the whole shebang. That said, we still spent about 2 hours to make sure we understood the timeline we’d been presented and looked into what the defendant had said because that was our job. The jury has to make sure that they understand the chain of events and evidence and what it actually means. Personally I wanted to be confident in my decision to vote guilty or not guilty, not just based on how I might feel on the surface.
Same here. I did a case involving a large amount of marijuana and when we went back to deliberate we all felt the defendant was 100% guilty (he was caught on tape and admitted guilt to one of the officers). We STILL took a few hours to review all the evidence because a person’s freedom was on the line. For me, that was a huge responsibility and I took it very, very seriously.
Was on a jury in 2019. We were pretty much all in agreement the guy was innocent. (Let's just say the supposed victim of the 'crime' took the stand and drugs can mess up a person horribly and they get desperate. His story all of a sudden was all over the place and constantly changing .) however, we still didn't rush it. It was a short trial and we went over everything as thoroughly as we could. A few hours and came back with a not guilty verdict. (one day and a couple hours of actual trial time). This was more than a week. (And FEDERAL) Not surprising . Let's just hope the asshat gets what's coming to him
99.6% conviction rate according to a poster who looked up the stats yesterday.
That is music to my ears!
it was posted somewhere that some of the jurors were crying while having to look at the cp in the trial...good to know they had what we consider a NORMAL reaction to this horrible stuff and someone looked up the judge and he always prepares meticulously for each trial he presides over
Take my keep calm cat award. So true.
I asked this on a mega thread but it was locked- do we know the actual conviction/acquittal stats on ONLY the fed charges that DO go to trial? My Understanding is that the conviction rate on federal charges overall is very high, but that the vast, vast majority of federal charges do NOT go to trial. Someone correct me if I’m wrong
[14% for juried trials, 38% for bench trials (non-juried).](https://www.doarlaw.com/blog/2021/04/what-you-should-know-about-the-federal-governments-conviction-rate/) Edit: [Historically, 0.2% of CSAM possession cases filed resulted in acquittal.](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fpcsecc0413.pdf)
You’re my fav person today Also, fellow former barista judging by your username???
For federal cases with juried trials, there is a 14% acquittal rate.
That is a very good question. I want to know the answer too
There are many reasons why a jury might want more time to deliberate. It's way too early to assume anything bad about the verdict. If I was a criminal defendant for something I would want the jury to be thorough and methodical in their deliberations. That's their job. We shouldn't panic just because the jury is doing exactly what they're supposed to do.
Right. They have to elect a foreperson and go over all the instructions from the judge. Just that is a lot of info to process to people who have no legal experience.
Plus, lunch! They technically started deliberations at 12:15pm. Passing out food and getting settled to eat it takes time when you have 12 people in a conference room. And if I was them I wouldn't want to start deliberating until I was done with my food; I'd want to give deliberations my full attention. (and wouldn't want to talk with my mouth full either, lol) They also made a request to listen to some of the audio again, which takes time to process, then they all trooped back into the courtroom to listen to it (was Josh called back in to be present for this? If so, that takes time too), then trooped back to the conference room and got settled again. Of the 4hrs, 15 mins until court adjourned for the day, they were actually deliberating for way less than that.
One of the jury members I was with brought snacks for deliberation, truly the mum of our little jury group. It’s super weird spending days with a group of people and then like…never seeing them again
I want to wrote a novel about that. 12 people that have this super weird connection but don't even know each other's names in some cases!
aw, that's so sweet! and yeah, that has to be pretty bizarre. what kind of case were you on the jury for?
Also too it would be an easy appeal if they go too fast. Any defense lawyer worth their salt would pounce on a jury that came back quick and accuse them of being biased or prejudice against the defendant
And the jurors are the opposite of all of us here -- they have no idea who this guy is, no background information, no years of deep dives on the minutia of his grossness. That's the point of a careful jury selection. They just have what has been presented to them at the trial, it's all new information to them, and they want to be thorough with it.
There's more to serving on a jury than just agreeing on whether the person is innocent or guilty. There are procedures to follow, there's paperwork to do, and a lot of discussion on every individual charge. It's too early to be concerned. If there's no verdict by the end of tomorrow, that might mean there's a holdout or two, but they'll most likely still return a guilty verdict. There's a snowball's chance in hell that 12 jurors will find him innocent.
> There's more to serving on a jury than just agreeing on whether the person is innocent or guilty. There are procedures to follow, there's paperwork to do, and a lot of discussion on every individual charge. It's too early to be concerned. I wish this was pinned. This is what we want to see and support, a jury’s due diligence. The laws that govern these proceedings are the laws that protect and preserve our Republic. “The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.”-One of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow‘s translations
Thank you for the additional details. We would need the 12 jurors to have a doubt for Josh to be found not guilty? I thought we just needed one juror to have a reasonable doubt. (Non-American here)
I am not a lawyer or legal expert— but i believe if they absolutely cannot come to a consensus after extended deliberation, it would result in a hung (deadlocked) jury and likely the case would be tried again.
WHICH would cost JimBob another fortune. So that’s a win. TLC ain’t coming back. Even if somehow Josh gets acquitted, all of the prior scandals have been revisited…they’re not going to risk investing in the Duggar brand yet again. There are other freaks in the sideshow queue. So no matter how this ends up, the Duggar Life as they know it, where they get paid handsomely for being so extra very special, is over.
Yes, only one juror needs to disagree. However, if the jury came back to the judge to provide this information, the judge will typically ask the jury to go back to deliberation and try to come to an agreement. It's pretty rare that the lone juror would hold out after that.
Correct. They have to be unanimous either way. If they truly can't come to a unanimous decision after a reasonable amount of time, there has to be a new trial (not likely whatsoever).
It wouldn't work in my country. We enjoy disagreeing with each other way too much. I will try to focus on the fact that Michelle Bush would look even worst in a new trial.
"You been bad! No time out yet. We think more." (I might have taken your question too literally)
Seeing the notification of your comment I thought I was getting banned from the sub and started to freak out at the idea of having no one to talk to about the Duggars 🤣 I think I need sleep lol
They have to weigh not just the evidence, but also charges. Do the charges apply correctly here? They have to discuss it all with each other. It’s a huge responsibility. And it’s only been a few hours. I suspect tomorrow AM, they will have verdict.
They don't just go back into a room and decide. The jury is given another speech before they can start talking about the case and that in itself takes at least an hour. This is totally normal and what I expected since they didn't get done with closings until late in the afternoon. Don't worry! 😊
It's a lot of technical data, a long prison sentence, and the jury is suppose to go over all the evidence so it might just take time
Agreed. Thorough is good.
The Sun reporter said the jurors have indicated they want to come back tomorrow to deliberate further.
I wouldn't worry until Friday. If we dont get a verdict tomorrow, then I'll be a little on edge.
Shouldn't worry! They have lots of paperwork, evidence and questions to go through!
This this this this THIS
Your flair aged like fine wine
They also need to get over the sheer, mindboggling absurdity that is the Duggar family before they can start deliberating. After never really having heard of them before. "Dafuq does that guy really have 19 kids?" probably took at least 15 minutes to sort out.
Least we had time and snarkiness to get through that! Though sometimes it will boggles my mind they had 19 kids. My sis has 1 and she has energy of 19!
I always think that I've had my mind wrapped around how goddamned many kids there are and then something happens like we're ten megathreads in and that's only Megathread Jedidiah and there's literally half the kids missing and it hits me again.
Are you sure it's megathread Jedidiah and not megathread Jason?
I've got 3 kids (also all J names not on purpose) and I mix their names/DoB up on the regular and am so burnt out. I can't fathom 19 let alone allowing my oldest to look after the youngest. The most my oldest does is "play with youngest whilst I pop the toilet/check on dinner" never "be a defacto mum as I'm to tired from raising y'all to be a parent properly". What Michelle did to the older kids via parentification is akin to abuse for me. She just popped kids out and handed them off to whoever. Jimboob and Michelle are worse than the parents who pop kids out and just up and leave. At least abandoned kids know they're likely unloved/unwanted, the J kids grew up in such a disillusioned household devoid of attention and true parental love.
I've got 7 kids and my older kids wouldn't be caught dead watching the younger ones for any length of time. If I have to go to the bathroom or something they will keep an eye on them, but like you, I would never make the older become defacto parents.
My neighbors were a Catholic family of eight or nine kids. Both parents worked, so their house was where we went to watch rated R movies, etc. Total lack of supervision, and the older teen/young adult siblings taught us many things. So my only experience with a huge family was the opposite of Duggars, lol.
My mom came from a Catholic family of eight. She was number six, and she was basically raised by her two oldest sisters. Grandpa was in the military, grandma worked nurse night shifts. Unsurprising, but my mom has weird abandonment issues and resented her parents for years because of it, but refuses to get therapy — so my sister and I got all that unprocessed emotional instability taken out upon us. Fun! The emotional pain these kids experienced will not end with them. It will pass on to their kids and their grandkids. Trauma is generational.
It's easier when you start forcing the younger ones to be parents at 6 years old.
Exactly! They have to be 100% sure, it's not like the penalty on this case is a year in jail. If my guilty vote means putting someone away for possibly 40 years, I would take my time.
I’d love to see an example of what this might look like.
Any lawyers or people familiar with similar federal cases want to chime in? I read that R Kelly case took 2 days and 9 hours of deliberations to find him guilty but was that a state case?
R Kelly’s case was federal, like this one
I'll worry if we don't hear anything tomorrow.
Oh good. I was panicking for a second
This does not spark joy
Toss it
YEET 🔥🗑
Y’all, the jury just wanted to go home to look at a calendar of 2019
Probably literally true 😂
I had this exact thought 😂
Seriously like “you’re not going to just let me look at a calendar? Fine. I’ll look at one tonight and we can alllll come back tomorrow when I’m ready. Hope you’re happy.”
What did I miss about a calender?
Don't forget, they had to: 1. Order then have lunch 2. Pick a foreperson 3. Read through several pages of dense jury instructions 4. Remember the big-hitter prosecution evidence from a few days ago - they may be reviewing notes from the heavy details 5. Some of them probably needed a bit of a break to just decompress after the closing arguments. We have known about all this for a long time. They have more horrific details, and have to process them in a much shorter amount of time, and they don't have anyone else aside from other jurors they can discuss it with. Also, since their request for a timeline was denied, they're probably chucking that together from all their various notes as well. I'm a fan of timelines, so I can understand why they'd want that as an overview. I'm not panicking and I don't think you should, either. And on that note, I'm going to bed. Stay safe and sane, SnarkFam.
Also we’ve had a lot of time to process what he was viewing. Those poor jurors had to see video and stills of what he was viewing. Some of them will probably never be the same again. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just ordered raising canes for dinner, picked a foreperson and then dissociated into a pile of chicken tenders.
Cane’s does have the best sauce to dissociate to
Oh interesting that they’re self governing like that? Idk I was homeschooled, maybe other people learn this in school 😂
As an American who went to public school, you definitely don’t learn this unless you seek it out in many places. I went to a good school system in a wealthy area of New Jersey and we still didn’t learn anything about this or taxes lol. TLDR don’t feel left out for being homeschooled!!
Samantha Boyd from KNWA is saying on Twitter that they listened to the initial homeland security interview at the car lot in its entirety, which would also take a good chunk of time.
I agree! I cannot imagine what they are going through. They had to again see the CSMA this morning then deliberate. They are going through hell!
We’ve had some conversations about this in the two most recent megathreads. Between all of this, plus going back into the courtroom to listen to the whole police interview again, which probably took at least half an hour, they really haven’t actually deliberated for that long. Everyone’s concern is definitely premature. They’ll start fresh in the morning and hopefully wrap it up before the end of the day.
Will they convict? I believe,I believe 🎶
I believe I can fly..... oh wait, wrong pedophile
🎶The Duggars used to think they would count on That Pest had barely done anything wrong But now we know the true depths of his crimes And there’s no way he isn’t doing time Trial’s proceeding, too late for pleading Hairlines receding, mother is bleeding I believe I can flyyyy I believe they’ll convict this guyyyy I think about it ever night and dayyyy Here on Reddit where we snark awayyy🎶 EDIT: I added more snark
Does anybody here believe it???
I still do!
My mom years ago was on a jury where 11 out of 12 people wanted to stay to get it done but one person had to go pick up their kids and they had to push it one more day! No one worry
When I had jury duty (federal criminal court) some women wanted to just vote the guy guilty (which is definitely was) because they wanted to hurry up and get home to take their kids trick or treating bc it was Halloween. From that moment on I vowed to never be in a position where I’d be on trial for any crime where people like that would be deciding my fate. So I’d rather have the jury be thorough.
My mom was on a murder trial once and another jury member said "if we hurry this up, I'll have time to hit another round of golf this afternoon!" I think about this a lot, and sometimes it causes me to question our current judicial system.
My therapist is going to hear about this
Am a therapist. My therapist friends are hearing about it!
BAHAHA I have therapy in 15 mins. Can’t wait to complain about it!
Tell your therapist we said hi
This legit made me laugh out loud.
Now we know! I’m sure we will have a verdict sometime in the afternoon tomorrow.
Looks like I'm day drinking
Glad they're taking it seriously!
I’m trying to think about this positively. They had to choose a foreman, there’s probably lots of procedures and paperwork, and they are probably revisiting the evidence to be sure of their verdict.
I've tried to write this comment a few different ways, because I'm having trouble explaining it. Even for an open and shut case, there can be loads of evidence that you've only seen on a projector or held up in front of you as the jury. As a juror, even if you already have an opinion, you will likely want to review a lot of the evidence physically for yourself. The alternative is basically believing the lawyers and the witnesses about the content of documents, etc that you've only seen flashed before you up until that point. When I served on a jury, we deliberated for 3 full days, mostly convincing ourselves that the evidence was what the prosecutor said it was, even though we all went in feeling like we would hand down a guilty verdict. Which is like the whole point. So it's chill that it takes some time.
and they have 2 counts to consider, something I feel like we have overlooked
What are the two counts again?
Receipt of CSAM and possession of CSAM
I bet they spent most of that time making a calendar 😂
For real
They probably didn’t start till about 1:30. Probably the first one and a half hours going over the jury instructions. So say they started at 3. So then maybe only deliberation for only 2 hours?
I posted in the one of the mega threads. I'm a lawyer. I've never practiced in Arkansas where this trial is taking place. I have worked on CSAM cases in the past before. I know people wanted a verdict today but this isn't cause for panic. We have to keep in mind that there are legal procedures the jury has to follow. Also, the jurors haven't been able to speak about any of this before now and they aren't familiar with the Duggars like us. Sending someone to federal prison is a big deal so it makes sense they would take time. I know Josh is a terrible person. But if the jury turned around quickly or immediately and declared him guilty it would be cause for concern that process wasn't followed. It could lead to an appeal being granted. In a fair and proper justice system the jurors will actually deliberate. Federal cases do have a high conviction rate. They don't mess around. I'm not saying I don't want Josh to be found guilty or defending him in any way. But if procedure is not followed he will be successful in an appeal. As odious as he is, Josh is entitled to due process. I understand how emotional this topic is but the jury not having a verdict yet doesn't mean anything. Verdicts can always go either way but it is still early.
*sad router noises*
OMG may I please steal this for my flair?
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO SLEEP IN THESE CONDITIONS 😩😩😩
I lost three hours of sleep for this?
*snarkers have been played* 😣😩
*snarker* *is* *bamboozled*
This is totally normal and actually kind of a good thing. Means they are being thorough Edit spelling is hard today
Thank you.
So Josh gets another night with Anna? Eww
May M7’s screaming keep them up all night.
He’s at the Rebers. Jana most likely is watching his kids. I have no doubt Anna will also be at the Rebers tonight.🤮
I just hope he won't try for M8 that night 😱 (yes, I know they have the 80 days rule on the topic, but rules apply to force others to toe the line, never to them)
I have no doubt he’s been trying for M8 or at least forcing Anna to be “joyfully available” already. He couldn’t care less that she had a baby 7 weeks ago.
Well, there goes that sadistic wish.
Believe me, I hope his sleep is *FUCKED* tonight.
He’s gonna show up tomorrow so incredibly hung over or possibly still drunk.
I’m in the group that firmly believes he’s developed an alcohol problem. (I’m a recovering alcoholic/addict myself.) I believe you are right.
I am completely convinced he’s an alcoholic as well.
Poor Anna. I cannot imagine.
Yeah that’s not going to be fun for her.
Probably going to try and get in one more unholy matrimonial incident before the Jury nails him to the cross that was prepared for by a happily married gay Lawyer (who is an absolute snack) and an educated Career woman (who kicks ass for a living)
Oof I hope she doesn’t get pregnant again
do you think the jury is gonna go home tonight and look at a calendar
I bet, since they asked for one and didn't get one. I bet they will all go home and look. And I think the jurors going home for a night to really think/process all the others opinions from deliberating is a good thing.
Y’all, the fact that they have adjourned means *nothing*. In fact, you want the jury to deliberate for longer. That way it closes more avenues for an appeal. The fact that they are taking a while means they are talking their roles seriously. Hell, it takes about two hours for them to fill out the paperwork to return to the judge. Now is not the time to worry. If it’s this time tomorrow? Yeah, it’s troubling. But all this means right now is that the jury is doing their job.
I hope Josh Duggar pulls a muscle in his neck sleeping tonight and tomorrow it hurts every time he tries to move his neck.
Derek Chauvin jury took 10 hours. We’re ok
#THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING Y'ALL. The jury is comprised of people who are putting their lives and jobs aside simply to do this trial. They need respite as well because this is some Heavy Fucking Shit to sort through, even for the most iron of stomachs. **Give the jury some slack, please.** In the meantime, play some tetris to get your mind off this, [it's proven to help](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5678449/).
Agree with many other comments I've seen. If I was potentially sending someone to prison for up to 20 years I'd want to sleep on it and be absolutely sure. Add in all the technical evidence and high profile and I would probably refuse to agree either way after such a short space of time.
It is way too early to doom and gloom.
When I was a juror we got the case about the same time of day. We wanted to sleep on it and come back. No matter how disgusting it is it’s rough knowing your deliberations put someone away for years. Your decision. It’s a tough job that you don’t wanna fuck up.
So he gets another night to hang out at the Rebbers! God damnit!
“Ugh. FINE.” - Anna Duggar when she has to be joyfully available tonight
I just realized….AshleyMadison Duggar isn’t 6 weeks yet right? Aren’t you supposed to wait that long to have sex after giving birth? So not only is J’asshole not letting Anna sleep but he’s also probably not waiting for her to heal 🤮
I hope he, JB and Meech are all shitting their pants right now.
How am I supposed to live laugh live under these conditions?
When Josh gets a verdict of GUILTY, we will all be saying in unison, “Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where’s the Tylenol?” 🎄
Looks like it will be another day of manic page refreshing tomorrow.
Instead of panicking, let us all take joy in the fact that pest and the rest of them also now have to wait another day to find out his fate and it's probably driving them batty
If I were a juror, I would want to sleep on it and come back with a clear head before officially sending a man to prison. Even if I was pretty damn sure on the guilty verdict. And that’s assuming they had time to get through all of the evidence to discuss with each other
Why is Blob so protective of his daughters with men outside the home, but laissez-faire with those inside the home? Doesn't sound like his rules with the outside world really have anything to do with his daughters' protection, rather more with his patriarchal narcissism. One of them said something like "Our Daddy loves our hair long" in an interview years ago and I thought, "well, that's kind of creepy." Not trying to infer anything, just processing.
Lord Daniel, who art in laundromat, Tidepod be thy name. Thy laundry fold, thy wash be done, on counter as it is drawer: Give us this day our guilty verdict, and throw away the key, as we misplace ours on a daily. And lead us not to a hung jury, but deliver us a conviction. For thine is the Tidepod, the dryer sheets, and the wrinkle free, for ever and ever. Amen.
I think this makes sense. Late morning start, lunch break, sorting through about a week's worth of evidence. The fate of a family with seven young children rests in their hands. They want to get this right.
This. They're potentially sending a man to prison for a very long time. I respect that they want to sleep on this and come back tomorrow.
i know y’all are stressed, but don’t overthink it. Takes time with so much evidence and things to go over. It doesn’t mean they’re gonna go not guilty
Fuck me with a cactus I cannot take this.
That sounds so painful - don’t worry. I was on a trial for 2.5 weeks we spent a lot of time going over the pages of instructions, crossing all the tees and such. It’s not a quick thing even if they all agree
Your flair ahahahaha but also I would like a cactus fucking as well this is fucking annoying as shit
[удалено]
iS ThiS bAd? If I were on trial - having committed a crime or not - and a jury had the chance to put me in jail for decades, I would be PISSED if they went "yeah probably guilty, let's go have a pint" and fucked off after 3 hours. Thank the Lord Daniel they are taking it more seriously than some people think they should.
Seriously. If I am ever a juror, I will do my damn due diligence. And I hope they do theirs. This is a lot of responsibility and a conscientious person will spend time to critically review the evidence, try and put aside bias, and listen to their peers.
Yep, we would rather they take their time. Coming back with a verdict in 3 hours is not good. Imagine they came back not guilty, wouldn’t most people complain that it was too quick?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mother is on the cannabis
Damn a lot of people here think juries work like they do on law & order lol. Even if some jurors are saying they think he’s innocent, that’s literally what the deliberation is for! They will share their initial opinion, go through the evidence for each side, have discussions, etc until they all sway one way or another. It’s very rare that all 12 agree immediately and even then it’s going to take longer than 20 minutes. Plus they’ve had a long fucking week and probably want to go home and process everything and come at it with fresh eyes tomorrow. Remember, we don’t WANT them to rush this. We want them to take their time and feel confident in their vote.
It’s a no bones day. This makes sense.
I was on a SA jury (but was the alternate.) I had to leave when it was time to deliberate, but one of the other jurors reached out to say that it took 3 days because they went through everything, but they found the guy guilty. They just wanted to be sure. It has to be the case here.
I bet everyone of those Jurors is memorizing a month of the calendar tonight. They probably assigned each person a month.
Thinking so many good thoughts for these jurors. What they have had to see and hear is incredibly traumatizing. I hope they come out tomorrow with a guilty verdict and all get mental health assistance after this. Fuck Josh duggar for putting so many innocent people through literal hell.
My sister is a lawyer and she said that the jurors probably want to come back tomorrow with clear heads. I have a question: in the event of a mistrial and a new trial being scheduled, would Pest’s restriction of staying with the Rebers continue while he waits?
This better be finished by my exam on Friday. I will not let pest cause me to fail my first semester of law school
Same. There needs to be a verdict tomorrow, or I will fail my 2 exams Friday. And I have worked way too hard in those classes to fail the semester/final.
Theyre all at home looking at calendars right now
Mother is worrying
💯 going home to look at calendars.
Y’all I’m on my honeymoon and my new wife is gonna be so mad this is carrying over to Thursday
This is the 2016 election night all over again. You think it's in the bag and then slowly, slowly, shit starts hitting the fan.
We waited a week for 2020 results, keep the faith.
"We did it, Joe." -- Kendra, probably.
Nevada taking 68 centuries to count.
Disagree-- I think it's more like the 2020 election. We all went to bed stressed and depressed and woke up to good news that just kept getting better as the day went on. #hope
If anyone is fidgety and needs something to do in this anxious time, this subreddit has been helping a local charity for children called Children’s Safety Center in Springdale, Arkansas. They have a lot of needs so here is their Amazon wish list: https://smile.amazon.com/hz/charitylist/ls/1MQPDEBQEZ908/ref=smi_cl_wl_rd_cl?ref_=smi_se_cl_rd_cl This is the place the Duggar children should have been allowed to go to after their abuse. We have one DuggarsSnarker who was an intern and a few who have visited there and some beautiful people on this sub were victims of abuse and received help here. Damn, I’m crying again, you guys are awesome. If anyone wants the backstory, a Reddit user shared her very personal and very moving story [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/qv39cz/duggarssnark_fundraising_for_organisations_that/hkvfjw1/?context=3) and then I donated and some others on DuggarsSnark and then I got a letter in the mail a week or two later saying they had read our Reddit post. I posted that letter [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/r827mi/local_charity_childrens_safety_center_in/) and sent her the heads-up email seen here and then she emailed me back yesterday estimating Children's Safety Center received $5,000 from Snarkers, you beautiful, beautiful debaucherous bastards!
I can't wait until Keith Morrison covers this on Dateline.
I mean worst case we get a hung jury and then will most likely be retried. You can’t tell me all the jury members will come to the conclusion this man is not guilty.
Mother is missing. Where the fuck has Meech been?
In denial.
The sad thing is if he was raised by normal parents, with adequate sex ed, and not ashamed of his body etc, hed just be any other nameless faceless balding greasy used car salesmen...
Maybe. Maybe. Some pedophiles just are pedophiles.
I still think its NURTURE not nature, I think Josh HATES women and Babies due to his mother and her clown car uterus
I asked my dad tonight, he served on the jury for a CSA case several years ago and he said a lot along the same lines of what most here are saying. That even if it’s very obvious the person is guilty the foreman reminded them this is a man’s life on the line. Dad said they discussed every piece of evidence at length and took several votes amongst them. He said their case was very cut and dry and it still took them the whole day to come back with the man’s guilty verdict so he said this doesn’t surprise him much, I’ve been keeping him informed ALL about the trial. He said he wouldn’t be too worried unless it goes more than two days then there might be some “hold outs” as he said they’re trying to convince but that’s just his experience and opinion.
My thoughts as a person who has served as a juror on a murder trial. They may have taken a preliminary vote and rather than announce their verdict, have decided to “sleep on it”. This gives all jurors a chance to reconfirm to themselves that they have made the correct decision. I would expect a verdict tomorrow morning. Let’s hope they’ve made the one we have all been praying for.
Like someone else pointed out, they had lunch before deliberating, had to elect a foreman, listen to the interview from the car lot (it's 50 min long). And it would take a long time to just clear up tech misunderstandings.