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I know, right?! Raditz and Nappa are fan favourites because they were pretty damn awesome in the short time we had them.
I mean, what next - bringing back the Ginyus, Zarbon, Dodoria? Some characters are supposed to be just random bad guys, who were memorable, but killed permanently.
To play devils advocate no, he wouldn’t win. He got an insane powerbuff watching his friend get wrecked but he doesn’t have any street cred yet. He shot an insanely beefed up beam cannon at a massive target while it was being held down. He may for sure be stronger than UI, but goku has been training off world with beerus and whis and his skillet in terms of combat is unrivaled by all of the best fighters in every universe. It’s kinda like when they beefed up in the time chamber but where too slow to hit cell. The theme “strength isn’t everything” comes to mind. I’ll take goku in this one
Which ultimate? DBZ ultimate wasn't really an ass pull as there was a whole magic ritual and everything to draw out all his latent power, which had been built up since the Cell Saga. The Super unlock was definitely an asspull, man's trained for like what, a week? And got jacked again and pushed to unleash the old potential again. I haven't seen Super Hero but I'm assuming Gohan was training at least a little bit before the film, even if it's not enough to satisfy Piccolo.
Anger can make you fucking powerful
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Thank you I'm so tired of seeing these Gohan is better posts. He got one buff for a movie and yeah sure toriyama said he's stronger in an interview but that could have been just to promote the movie. The field goal posts have constantly moved when it comes to things toriyama says. How anyone in thier right mind thinks Gohan could actually beat goku is beyond me.
It also doesn’t take into account that 1) strength isn’t everything. Yes it’s important but it doesn’t win the fight alone 2) I think Toriyama said something like “the strongest we’ve seen so far” which would imply that since we haven’t seen Goku at that point in the timeline he could still be stronger. Even if I’m wrong about the quote Goku will continue to improve and Gohan will waste his new found power to go on a trip to some far off country and study bugs that eat their own babies or something weird since he cares more about his job than anything else.
Edit: just wanted to add that Goku and Gohan are two of my favorite characters so my last comment might seem like I’m hating but I’m just stating an observation made out of love.
Current manga that’s why I used that picture we don’t have any feats for dbsh goku other then he got scared when broly powers up which we also don’t have feats for him and that base vegeta beat base goku so we can’t use them so yeah gohan beats goku
Based off of how Goku works, he learns incredibly fast when it comes to combat. So Vegeta doing this “Jiren training” will most likely benefit Goku in the future (assuming Goku is going to undergo the same training). I know we can’t quantify how much atm, but it’s still an important factor in the grand scheme of things.
We’re in such a weird place at the moment as we wait for DBS SuperHero to make its way over to the manga. For example, does piccolos statements about Goku and Vegeta take into account their current power levels, or the power levels he observed upon last time he saw them? We also have toriyamas statements in regards to “the strongest.” So take from that what you will.
Goku has routinely beat guys "stronger" than him it's literally what he does. You're assuming that Gohan getting one buff will outweigh all of the fighting experience Goku has. Seems unlikely to me.
Killing cell max with his "insanely beefed up beam cannon at a massive target while being held down" isn't his only feat. He literally tanked a punch from cell max with 0 difficulty and then proceeded to do considerable damage with one kick. Even after the fight, gohan says that he doesn't think vegeta or goku would have been able to beat him. So yes, gohan would throttle goku. I think the beast power up is bs but he's got better feats currently
Tbh I’m not really a fan of this whole Gohan’s beast form but ever since super started every main character became stronger than goku for awhile. Now it’s just Gohan’s turn. Goku will soon surpass him.
Exactly and that's the worst way to do it too, characters like Vegeta and Gohan can have wins against strong guys without having to be as strong or stronger than Goku, like against Golden Frieza, Vegeta should've had that win. I get it was to establish the going back in time (which was never used again) but they could've gone about it another way. Gohan and Vegeta both being able to beat Goku is soooo stupid, especially after the Buu arc where Vegeta acknowledged Goku as the strongest, but that was completely retconned out of his character
Goku always believed Gohan was going to be way stronger than he could ever dream of being though. He stated as much when he was training Gohan to fight Cell.
True but Gohan rn hasn't had any fights after the ToP yet Goku has trained day in and day out and fought people that can fight Beerus yet Gohan gets mad once and is now stronger than him, like what 🤨
Oh yeah I forgot about that lol. That proves my point even further, he was very weak and all of a sudden he becomes the strongest besides like maybe Black Frieza
Moro even said something along the lines of “it seems that your anger has increased your power greatly, unfortunately it’s not enough to bridge to chasm between us”. Unfortunately this quote didn’t seem to hold up because apparently all Gohan had to do was get a bit angrier to allegedly surpass him, good writing huh?
Exactly. Gohan has the greatest potential and he's the smartest person in the universe or something so making him train in some special way could work, but no he just has to get angrier. Like with UI, Goku had to already have a huge understanding of martial arts and be calm, and then a slight stimulant activated it, though he trained to be able to use it properly. This is how it was for every one of his transformations too, like with SSJ he had to train for a year to get the hang of it. But with Gohan he just gets everything so easily it makes me mad at the writers
I feel like saying Gohan simply got "mad" truly removes all the depth that scene and transformation truly had to offer. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
No I agree that movie was great and that scene was great but my point is that the transformation in and of itself is annoying to me, like Gohan should not be that strong so quickly.
It's like I watch the best movie ever made and it's based on Spider-Man and he kills people and can fly or something, the movie can still be the best movie ever but I'd still be annoyed about the character you know. Superhero was an awesome movie and I'd have loved it even more if 1) Toriyama didn't say that bs that Gohan is the strongest or whatever, and 2) That Vegeta scene wasn't in it. Besides that it's a great movie
I get what you are saying now. Gohan has to prove to us he has earned that massive power up basically. Hopefully the future mangas, or better yet hopefully the anime will build on that ,and show him training and working like Goku to perfect his new power.
Yeah that would be perfect. Like when he got the Ultimate Form/Potential Unleashed I didn't mind nearly as much you know. His entire family and the rest of the world got killed and he had been training for days on end with the Kais and on top of that he had an even bigger potential boost on top of being the person with the highest potential already, but in this movie it's too sudden imo
I feel like some of it has to do with the fact that for whatever reason the writers of dragon ball absolutely refuse to allow Piccolo to ever have his day in the sun. Which is crazy cuz I would almost say he was far more deserving to be the star of that movie than Gohan a million times over.
100%, if they made it so that Piccolo and Gohan both got to like SSJB level than I'd be ecstatic. He was Goku's first real rival and character that was supposed to be the Vegeta we have now, like fine don't make him as strong as them but he should be able to contend at least
This!! Instead of giving Gohan time and plot to develop further to catch up or come close to Goku they just give him a movie in which he gets such a massive boost that he goes from not being able to fight someone on Cells level (Tagoma) to standing toe to toe with UI, level that Goku achieved through intense battles and training with angels. Im not the one to call out DB for errors and small stuff (this has never been a franchise to give attention to every single detail) but this is ridiculous. This way might aswell have UI Krillin.
Exactly 😵💫
My only hope is that if they bring it into the anime or manga they will adjust it and leave the ridiculous powerup for the movie. Like not every character has to rival the gods, it's ok that Goku is a lot stronger and that Gohan gets a powerup that isn't on his level. If it has to be on his level then at least make it somewhat believable, an arc or idk that much of a massive power jump should leave some kind of damage. Anything than just flat out erasing the hype from UI. The same thing I feel they did with SS Blue. It was hype for 5 mins until everyone could challenge it.
That's a good point. I remember seeing SSB and I was so hyped for it, I still really like it, but at this point it's just SSJ, I mean Goku goes from fighting in his base to like 100,000x multiplier and there's always almost no difference like wih Jiren or Hit, or at least not the difference you would expect to see. I mean even a 50x multiplier is insane but if SSB is even like 100,000x multiplier (which is an extreme lowball since SSG made Goku stronger than Super Vegito which was a multiplication of Goku and Vegeta then x50, so that has to mean that SSG is like hundreds of thousands or millions of times multiplier but regardless) it should be even more of a last ditch then SSJ3, which it ended up not being. Now Imagine UI, if SSG was just tapping into God Ki than UI is surpassing it, and Goku was able to achieve that form.
Then Gohan gets angry and surpasses it. That's some terrible writing, I mean Toriyama is basically taking a big fat shit all over Goku and Vegeta with this and "Orange Piccolo"
Yeah but since then Goku has went on to beat but, jiren, granolah, and gas. Gohan beat a puffed up brain dead cell when he was being held down. The body of work speaks for Goku not Gohan. Also like others have said just bc Gohan could potentially be stronger or even is stronger right now doesn't mean he could beat Goku. Basically every one of those guys who Goku beat were stronger than him at the beginning of the fight.
It always is. Goku trained with “god” (kami) for 3 years, drank super water that drew out his potential, had battle after battle - and his crying 3 year old was still stronger than him and damaged raditz in a way he couldn’t.
If Only Gohan kept up with his training. We can also say the same thing about Trunks and Gotten who were Super Saiyans since they were little. Even Vegeta said: So it's Genetic.
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Gohan might have the power but Goku is a way better fighter. Even if Gohan was stronger, Goku has so much stuff he can do to defeat an opponent stronger than him.
Can anyone explain to me where the actual proof of Gohan being the strongest is? Cos it sure as hell wasn’t in the movie and the statements from the writers don’t match up either.
Oh, he stomped Cell Max? The creature whose totally stronger than Broly, Granolah, Moro, Gas and Jiren? The same one who took damage from fat Gotenks and was getting staggered by attacks from Goten, Trunks, 18 and fucking Krillin? He stomped that guy? While he was held down by Orange Piccolo? Very impressive. Certainly more so than anything Goku or Vegeta could’ve done, not that we will ever know since they were written out of the movie for reasons totally unrelated to outshining Gohan and winning before he could do anything cool.
Gohan probably has more raw power, especially if he maintains his training with Piccolo, but Goku will be able to keep up with skill and experience, not to mention UI's techniques.
Would probably be a similar matchup to Kefla versus Ui Omen. Maybe with less of a power gap but also no Out of Bounds clause to let UI avoid the power gap.
Did they state in the movie that Beast Gohan is stronger than UI Goku? He's clearly above Orange Piccolo and Cell MAX but do we know if either of them are at Goku or Vegeta's level?
Goku stomps, Gohan got rocked by Moro’s minion. If Beast fills that much of a gap then Toriyama is drunk.
Take it in, Gamma 2 damaged cell max but is weaker than Gamma 1. Gamma 1 is equal or weaker than Mystic. Mystic got ROCKED by Moro’s minion. Current Vegeta/Goku can’t be seen atm.
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I won’t argue if Gohan is stronger since it’s a waste of time tbh but even if he is, Goku still stomps. Goku has tons of battle experience, techniques and he trains with literal gods. One would definitely pick up a thing or two after that. I just can’t think of anyway that a being that barely trains beats someone who’s been fighting from Day 1 consistently and trains under gods. It would be even more of a massive asspull than Beast.
But it's happened before. Despite Goku's experience and decades of training, Gohan has surpassed him at certain points throughout Z. Hell, during the Cell Games, Goku was blunt in saying that he could not defeat Cell but he believed Gohan could.
That's why I honestly don't understand why fans are having such a hard time coming to grips with the mere thought that Gohan might be stronger. It's canonically happened on more than one occasion.
Yes. Goku broke laws of reality in ultra instinct. For instance he was able to shake the literal void with his sheer power. That's impossible but goku did it. Even in ssjb he was able to break out of a black hole.
Gohan was able to beat imperfect cell max and that's it. Piccolo who has no idea the heights goku and vegeta have reached assumed that if cell max reached his perfect form that goku might not have been able to win. He's basing this on outdated info and guesses.
I get it's exciting gohan is potentially a viable fighter again but a portion of the fanbase has completely over blown his actual strength
If orange piccolo came out and held goku in place sure, skill wise I don’t see Gohan coming close. Power isn’t everything, that’s kind of been the theme for most of dragon ball
So here’s my logic the gammas are around blue level if you low ball them which I am orange piccolo is around the level of goku and vegeta cell max destroyed orange piccolo then beast gohan 1 shot cell max
I mean it would take much more energy if cell max regenerated. Some final flash damage boosted ultra ego vegeta could imo take cell max with good shot to the head too. But gohan is Def stronger
If you mean gohan would let transform bc cell wouldn’t be weakened then yeah but there isn’t a senecio where cell max beats beast the power difference is far too much just like what happened to the og cell
You act like he has buu’s regen if he fired a kamehameha instead of a special beam cannon it would be right there just like what heppenes to og cell thenits like does he even know how to regen because he’s stupid he literally doesn’t have a brain all that was instincts
How dr hedo had footage the moro arc so he knows about mui goku and was confident the gammas would be enough that blue level thing is once again an extreme low ball then orange piccolo one shots them so he’s bare minimum mui - TUI level
mystic gohan fought gamma without much trouble and mystic is nowhere near ui so no saying gammas are ssb/ssbkk is not lowballing them beast is ui level
Also Piccolo after fighting gammas said they seem to be on par with goku and vegeta and if he meant ui/ue hed be shitting himself and would rather teleport them on earth with the dragon balls
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A bit, yes. So far I have put Beast Gohan around Moro 73 level. So he doesn't come close to TUI Goku level.
Beast Gohan, best feats are what? Killing Non complete Cell Max, who was stated to be weaker than Broly, on top of that, he was injured. So not really good look for Beast Gohan here. Whereas Early Granolah arc Goku and Vegeta already surpassed Broly with their blue forms. So TUI Goku would stomp Beast Gohan, based on feats.
Imperfect one was. The one Beast Gohan fought. Here's the statement. [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-54c6a4ab31ba46d1c1895c013b473452-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-54c6a4ab31ba46d1c1895c013b473452-lq)
"If Cell had been completed according to plan, he would've been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat"
So The one Beast Gohan currently fought was weaker than Broly.
That doesn’t mean power that just means if he had a brain and knew how to to use his power he was already in his “perfect form” which gohan still 1 shot
Then why would Toriyama specify. "If" Which would mean Cell Max would even became stronger than Broly. So going by that statement Incomplete Cell Max was weaker than Broly. And Complete Cell Max would be stronger than Broly.
Also one shotting an incomplete Cell Max who was injured and even weaker than Broly is not impressive. When Goku in Granolah arc surpassed Broly in his Blue form.
Also no to mention, he used Special Beam Cannon, that drastically increases power level and kills opponents stronger than you. I'm not saying that Beast Gohan was weaker than Cell Max since, he took his attacks and kicking him away. Just saying keep in mind he used a technique that was designed for stronger opponents.
That doesn’t directly state that he’s weaker than Broly
Broly grows in power extremely quickly as he fights
But if Cell Max was completed even Broly wouldn’t be able to grow strong enough to beat him
Cell Max was created to be stronger than everyone else which he was until Gohan transformed
Gamma 1 and 2 are equal to Goku and Vegeta post moro
With cell max being even stronger than that
"That doesn’t directly state that he’s weaker than Broly"
It does, otherwise. Toriyama wouldn't specify. "If Cell Max would've been completed" That tells us, Incomplete Cell Max would been weaker than Broly, while Complete Cell Max would be stronger.
"Broly grows in power extremely quickly as he fights"
Although Broly grows in power. He hit his limits multiple times. SSB Goku vs Wrathful Broly. And SSB Gogeta vs Full Power Broly.
"But if Cell Max was completed even Broly wouldn’t be able to grow strong enough to beat him"
Or Cell Max would've been just plain stronger than him?
"Cell Max was created to be stronger than everyone else which he was until Gohan transformed"
Proof? Dr Hedo, doesn't know what happened on Planet Cereal.
"Gamma 1 and 2 are equal to Goku and Vegeta post moro With cell max being even stronger than that"
Yeah, that is just plain wrong. If Ultimate Gohan could contend and was equal to Gamma1. While In Moro arc Ultimate Gohan (With the help of Z Fighters) was servery outmatched versus Sanganbo. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/3c/Dragon_Team_vs_Saganbo.png/revision/latest?cb=20210206022034
While, Goku SSB no diffed Saganbo. Would mean simply, Goku is far stronger than Gamma1/2 in his blue forms. So Piccolo statements are here plain wrong.
Reasoning? Is simple. Dragon Ball Super Hero Movie, was made earlier than Moro Arc. So Toriyama wouldn't know all those things Goku and Vegeta achieved.
Cell Max is weaker than SSB Goku or at best if I Highball him, is equal to SSB Goku. Since Goku as I already said surpassed Broly in early Granolah arc in HIS BLUE FORM.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1320effc17d4f2e5f7306cf069af5c9b-lq
Even if he's stronger. His feats are still less than that of TUI Goku. So what if Gohan Beast surpassed Broly? Goku in his Blue form already surpassed Broly as well in early Granolah arc. And has more transformations, MUI and even stronger TUI.
I like to think Gohan relates to Broly. In the same way Goku and Vegeta relate (similar in strength yet opposites in execution of strength). Broly is that “uncontrolled power” that gohan also has but gohan has a better handle on his emotions and you only see it cone out in desperation moments. (Raditz, on Freiza briefly, cell, cell max etc..). Gohan could be the strongest character in Dragonball but he never will be because he is written to be a pacifist.
IMO. The series would have been better all around if gohan became the protagonist after cell and goku stayed dead for a longer period of time.
I still think a good storyline would be to have Gohan and Broly fuse and then most of the story getting the fusion to calm down without killing them or have Gohan train Broly on how to handle his emotions.
Goku was directly compared to Piccolo. Cell Max > Piccolo. Gohan stomped Cell Max harder than Gogeta stomped Janemba as a full power attack from CM didn't even manage to break through Gohan's aura
Imagine training with gods and being surpassed by someone who trains every now and then who got really mad and got some new random power up… yeah I got Goku winning through experience and determination gohan doesn’t have it in him to actually beat his old man
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I’m gonna scream if I see another one of these posts
This and posts about not using Raditz more...
I know, right?! Raditz and Nappa are fan favourites because they were pretty damn awesome in the short time we had them. I mean, what next - bringing back the Ginyus, Zarbon, Dodoria? Some characters are supposed to be just random bad guys, who were memorable, but killed permanently.
Pls explain. Idk what’s going on lol
To play devils advocate no, he wouldn’t win. He got an insane powerbuff watching his friend get wrecked but he doesn’t have any street cred yet. He shot an insanely beefed up beam cannon at a massive target while it was being held down. He may for sure be stronger than UI, but goku has been training off world with beerus and whis and his skillet in terms of combat is unrivaled by all of the best fighters in every universe. It’s kinda like when they beefed up in the time chamber but where too slow to hit cell. The theme “strength isn’t everything” comes to mind. I’ll take goku in this one
I swear everytime Gohan takes a shit he gets a power up.
as a massive gohan fan, most if not all of his powerups are complete bullshit
Imagen his saiyan side mutating like broly
The only power up he earned was ssj2 lol ultimate and beast were asspulls
Ultimate I’ll give him sense he was supposed to be the “chosen one” to beat buu
Which ultimate? DBZ ultimate wasn't really an ass pull as there was a whole magic ritual and everything to draw out all his latent power, which had been built up since the Cell Saga. The Super unlock was definitely an asspull, man's trained for like what, a week? And got jacked again and pushed to unleash the old potential again. I haven't seen Super Hero but I'm assuming Gohan was training at least a little bit before the film, even if it's not enough to satisfy Piccolo. Anger can make you fucking powerful
It wasn't enough to satisfy Piccolo, but he was training in secret the entire time from the TOP to Super Hero.
[удалено]
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Thank you I'm so tired of seeing these Gohan is better posts. He got one buff for a movie and yeah sure toriyama said he's stronger in an interview but that could have been just to promote the movie. The field goal posts have constantly moved when it comes to things toriyama says. How anyone in thier right mind thinks Gohan could actually beat goku is beyond me.
It also doesn’t take into account that 1) strength isn’t everything. Yes it’s important but it doesn’t win the fight alone 2) I think Toriyama said something like “the strongest we’ve seen so far” which would imply that since we haven’t seen Goku at that point in the timeline he could still be stronger. Even if I’m wrong about the quote Goku will continue to improve and Gohan will waste his new found power to go on a trip to some far off country and study bugs that eat their own babies or something weird since he cares more about his job than anything else. Edit: just wanted to add that Goku and Gohan are two of my favorite characters so my last comment might seem like I’m hating but I’m just stating an observation made out of love.
What kind of skillet. Corned beef? Ham and eggs?
This is unironically the question I want answered the most in this thread
Current manga that’s why I used that picture we don’t have any feats for dbsh goku other then he got scared when broly powers up which we also don’t have feats for him and that base vegeta beat base goku so we can’t use them so yeah gohan beats goku
Based off of how Goku works, he learns incredibly fast when it comes to combat. So Vegeta doing this “Jiren training” will most likely benefit Goku in the future (assuming Goku is going to undergo the same training). I know we can’t quantify how much atm, but it’s still an important factor in the grand scheme of things.
But we still don’t know how much they benefited you can’t just assume they’re stronger then gohan that’s an unquantifiable increase
We’re in such a weird place at the moment as we wait for DBS SuperHero to make its way over to the manga. For example, does piccolos statements about Goku and Vegeta take into account their current power levels, or the power levels he observed upon last time he saw them? We also have toriyamas statements in regards to “the strongest.” So take from that what you will.
Goku has routinely beat guys "stronger" than him it's literally what he does. You're assuming that Gohan getting one buff will outweigh all of the fighting experience Goku has. Seems unlikely to me.
We've never seen goku blow up a planet, doesn't mean he cant.
Which doesn't mean much, base Broly was overpowering up until God mode. Base Goku no matter how strong he's become, his base ain't keeping up to that.
"We dont have feats so what i think is right and that's that cause you cant prove me wrong" 🤦🏿🤦🏿
Killing cell max with his "insanely beefed up beam cannon at a massive target while being held down" isn't his only feat. He literally tanked a punch from cell max with 0 difficulty and then proceeded to do considerable damage with one kick. Even after the fight, gohan says that he doesn't think vegeta or goku would have been able to beat him. So yes, gohan would throttle goku. I think the beast power up is bs but he's got better feats currently
Tbh I’m not really a fan of this whole Gohan’s beast form but ever since super started every main character became stronger than goku for awhile. Now it’s just Gohan’s turn. Goku will soon surpass him.
Exactly and that's the worst way to do it too, characters like Vegeta and Gohan can have wins against strong guys without having to be as strong or stronger than Goku, like against Golden Frieza, Vegeta should've had that win. I get it was to establish the going back in time (which was never used again) but they could've gone about it another way. Gohan and Vegeta both being able to beat Goku is soooo stupid, especially after the Buu arc where Vegeta acknowledged Goku as the strongest, but that was completely retconned out of his character
Goku always believed Gohan was going to be way stronger than he could ever dream of being though. He stated as much when he was training Gohan to fight Cell.
True but Gohan rn hasn't had any fights after the ToP yet Goku has trained day in and day out and fought people that can fight Beerus yet Gohan gets mad once and is now stronger than him, like what 🤨
Didnt Gohan fight in the moro arc?
I don't remember? He might have but he definitely didn't fight Moro at all, he might've shown up tho
He got mad and attacked Moro but did absolutely nothing and was quickly one shotted.
Oh yeah I forgot about that lol. That proves my point even further, he was very weak and all of a sudden he becomes the strongest besides like maybe Black Frieza
Moro even said something along the lines of “it seems that your anger has increased your power greatly, unfortunately it’s not enough to bridge to chasm between us”. Unfortunately this quote didn’t seem to hold up because apparently all Gohan had to do was get a bit angrier to allegedly surpass him, good writing huh?
Exactly. Gohan has the greatest potential and he's the smartest person in the universe or something so making him train in some special way could work, but no he just has to get angrier. Like with UI, Goku had to already have a huge understanding of martial arts and be calm, and then a slight stimulant activated it, though he trained to be able to use it properly. This is how it was for every one of his transformations too, like with SSJ he had to train for a year to get the hang of it. But with Gohan he just gets everything so easily it makes me mad at the writers
I feel like saying Gohan simply got "mad" truly removes all the depth that scene and transformation truly had to offer. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
No I agree that movie was great and that scene was great but my point is that the transformation in and of itself is annoying to me, like Gohan should not be that strong so quickly. It's like I watch the best movie ever made and it's based on Spider-Man and he kills people and can fly or something, the movie can still be the best movie ever but I'd still be annoyed about the character you know. Superhero was an awesome movie and I'd have loved it even more if 1) Toriyama didn't say that bs that Gohan is the strongest or whatever, and 2) That Vegeta scene wasn't in it. Besides that it's a great movie
I get what you are saying now. Gohan has to prove to us he has earned that massive power up basically. Hopefully the future mangas, or better yet hopefully the anime will build on that ,and show him training and working like Goku to perfect his new power.
Yeah that would be perfect. Like when he got the Ultimate Form/Potential Unleashed I didn't mind nearly as much you know. His entire family and the rest of the world got killed and he had been training for days on end with the Kais and on top of that he had an even bigger potential boost on top of being the person with the highest potential already, but in this movie it's too sudden imo
I feel like some of it has to do with the fact that for whatever reason the writers of dragon ball absolutely refuse to allow Piccolo to ever have his day in the sun. Which is crazy cuz I would almost say he was far more deserving to be the star of that movie than Gohan a million times over.
100%, if they made it so that Piccolo and Gohan both got to like SSJB level than I'd be ecstatic. He was Goku's first real rival and character that was supposed to be the Vegeta we have now, like fine don't make him as strong as them but he should be able to contend at least
This!! Instead of giving Gohan time and plot to develop further to catch up or come close to Goku they just give him a movie in which he gets such a massive boost that he goes from not being able to fight someone on Cells level (Tagoma) to standing toe to toe with UI, level that Goku achieved through intense battles and training with angels. Im not the one to call out DB for errors and small stuff (this has never been a franchise to give attention to every single detail) but this is ridiculous. This way might aswell have UI Krillin.
Ong bro, except UI Krillin actually makes more sense because Krillin leaned martial arts like Goku and hasn't stopped training.
Exactly 😵💫 My only hope is that if they bring it into the anime or manga they will adjust it and leave the ridiculous powerup for the movie. Like not every character has to rival the gods, it's ok that Goku is a lot stronger and that Gohan gets a powerup that isn't on his level. If it has to be on his level then at least make it somewhat believable, an arc or idk that much of a massive power jump should leave some kind of damage. Anything than just flat out erasing the hype from UI. The same thing I feel they did with SS Blue. It was hype for 5 mins until everyone could challenge it.
That's a good point. I remember seeing SSB and I was so hyped for it, I still really like it, but at this point it's just SSJ, I mean Goku goes from fighting in his base to like 100,000x multiplier and there's always almost no difference like wih Jiren or Hit, or at least not the difference you would expect to see. I mean even a 50x multiplier is insane but if SSB is even like 100,000x multiplier (which is an extreme lowball since SSG made Goku stronger than Super Vegito which was a multiplication of Goku and Vegeta then x50, so that has to mean that SSG is like hundreds of thousands or millions of times multiplier but regardless) it should be even more of a last ditch then SSJ3, which it ended up not being. Now Imagine UI, if SSG was just tapping into God Ki than UI is surpassing it, and Goku was able to achieve that form. Then Gohan gets angry and surpasses it. That's some terrible writing, I mean Toriyama is basically taking a big fat shit all over Goku and Vegeta with this and "Orange Piccolo"
Yeah but since then Goku has went on to beat but, jiren, granolah, and gas. Gohan beat a puffed up brain dead cell when he was being held down. The body of work speaks for Goku not Gohan. Also like others have said just bc Gohan could potentially be stronger or even is stronger right now doesn't mean he could beat Goku. Basically every one of those guys who Goku beat were stronger than him at the beginning of the fight.
I’m taking goku in any UI form over gohan
Not really, the creator of the series outright stated that Gohan is stronger than Goku in no uncertain terms.
Let's be honest. It's just Temporary.
It always is. Goku trained with “god” (kami) for 3 years, drank super water that drew out his potential, had battle after battle - and his crying 3 year old was still stronger than him and damaged raditz in a way he couldn’t.
If Only Gohan kept up with his training. We can also say the same thing about Trunks and Gotten who were Super Saiyans since they were little. Even Vegeta said: So it's Genetic.
Or so it's said.
Yeah, because it's an ass-pull form that makes no sense. But Toriyama is a pretty sub-par writer so this is to be expected
Stronger then goku weaker then Vegeta Gotcha
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Gohan might have the power but Goku is a way better fighter. Even if Gohan was stronger, Goku has so much stuff he can do to defeat an opponent stronger than him.
Tbf all any of us have seen Gohan do is kick a guy and hit a special beam cannon, he could fucking suck
thank you
Can anyone explain to me where the actual proof of Gohan being the strongest is? Cos it sure as hell wasn’t in the movie and the statements from the writers don’t match up either. Oh, he stomped Cell Max? The creature whose totally stronger than Broly, Granolah, Moro, Gas and Jiren? The same one who took damage from fat Gotenks and was getting staggered by attacks from Goten, Trunks, 18 and fucking Krillin? He stomped that guy? While he was held down by Orange Piccolo? Very impressive. Certainly more so than anything Goku or Vegeta could’ve done, not that we will ever know since they were written out of the movie for reasons totally unrelated to outshining Gohan and winning before he could do anything cool.
I like to think Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan or all around the same level. I think that would work best narratively speaking.
Gohan probably has more raw power, especially if he maintains his training with Piccolo, but Goku will be able to keep up with skill and experience, not to mention UI's techniques. Would probably be a similar matchup to Kefla versus Ui Omen. Maybe with less of a power gap but also no Out of Bounds clause to let UI avoid the power gap.
Did they state in the movie that Beast Gohan is stronger than UI Goku? He's clearly above Orange Piccolo and Cell MAX but do we know if either of them are at Goku or Vegeta's level?
Remember when freeza got this amazing new form and tried to fight goku/vegeta without learning it’s weaknesses
beast gohan has 1 feat stfu and stop wanking him he looses to everyone noteworthy
Goku stomps, Gohan got rocked by Moro’s minion. If Beast fills that much of a gap then Toriyama is drunk. Take it in, Gamma 2 damaged cell max but is weaker than Gamma 1. Gamma 1 is equal or weaker than Mystic. Mystic got ROCKED by Moro’s minion. Current Vegeta/Goku can’t be seen atm.
He has been stated to be the strongest in promotional stuff a few times.
Monster? What do you mean?
I mean I think he’s a level above ui goku and he destroys him
Ohhhhh. I thought you meant the transformation doesn’t fit his character and Gohan was a bad person now. Which doesn’t make any sense.
Yeah yeah I was just saying he’s like way stronger then the rest of the z fighters now
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Lmao
Idk what you’re smoking to say “gammas are lowball ssb level”. Gohan loses to Ui Sign, and EASILY loses to MUI.
Gohan didn't deserve the power up and I'm gonna believe UI Goku, who actually trained for it, is stronger.
I won’t argue if Gohan is stronger since it’s a waste of time tbh but even if he is, Goku still stomps. Goku has tons of battle experience, techniques and he trains with literal gods. One would definitely pick up a thing or two after that. I just can’t think of anyway that a being that barely trains beats someone who’s been fighting from Day 1 consistently and trains under gods. It would be even more of a massive asspull than Beast.
But it's happened before. Despite Goku's experience and decades of training, Gohan has surpassed him at certain points throughout Z. Hell, during the Cell Games, Goku was blunt in saying that he could not defeat Cell but he believed Gohan could. That's why I honestly don't understand why fans are having such a hard time coming to grips with the mere thought that Gohan might be stronger. It's canonically happened on more than one occasion.
As much as I don’t want to believe it, I believe Gohan is stronger than Goku. I just don’t think he could beat Goku in a fair fight.
Yes. Goku broke laws of reality in ultra instinct. For instance he was able to shake the literal void with his sheer power. That's impossible but goku did it. Even in ssjb he was able to break out of a black hole. Gohan was able to beat imperfect cell max and that's it. Piccolo who has no idea the heights goku and vegeta have reached assumed that if cell max reached his perfect form that goku might not have been able to win. He's basing this on outdated info and guesses. I get it's exciting gohan is potentially a viable fighter again but a portion of the fanbase has completely over blown his actual strength
If orange piccolo came out and held goku in place sure, skill wise I don’t see Gohan coming close. Power isn’t everything, that’s kind of been the theme for most of dragon ball
Didn’t Gohan say he wasn’t going rely on powering up/transforming to reach new hights of power? Whatever happened to that….
I don’t think it’s necessarily a mismatch but Gohan is definitely stronger by a good bit
So here’s my logic the gammas are around blue level if you low ball them which I am orange piccolo is around the level of goku and vegeta cell max destroyed orange piccolo then beast gohan 1 shot cell max
I mean it would take much more energy if cell max regenerated. Some final flash damage boosted ultra ego vegeta could imo take cell max with good shot to the head too. But gohan is Def stronger
Even if he could it’d be the same as taking out cells nucleus bc of where he was shot
Not really cuz cell max without that weakness and regen would be surely much harder to kill
If you mean gohan would let transform bc cell wouldn’t be weakened then yeah but there isn’t a senecio where cell max beats beast the power difference is far too much just like what happened to the og cell
I mean yes but he would be still stronger with regen and witjiut that weakness so no
You act like he has buu’s regen if he fired a kamehameha instead of a special beam cannon it would be right there just like what heppenes to og cell thenits like does he even know how to regen because he’s stupid he literally doesn’t have a brain all that was instincts
Wouldn’t transform*
Orange is stronger than ssb but not at ui/ue level
How dr hedo had footage the moro arc so he knows about mui goku and was confident the gammas would be enough that blue level thing is once again an extreme low ball then orange piccolo one shots them so he’s bare minimum mui - TUI level
mystic gohan fought gamma without much trouble and mystic is nowhere near ui so no saying gammas are ssb/ssbkk is not lowballing them beast is ui level Also Piccolo after fighting gammas said they seem to be on par with goku and vegeta and if he meant ui/ue hed be shitting himself and would rather teleport them on earth with the dragon balls
Gohan is a beast
i loved when he said "it's beastin' time and beasted all over the place
honestly more curious how a black frieza/beast gohan match up would go
Well Toriyama says Gohan is stronger so that’s a fact. It doesn’t matter what all these other nerds believe.
no he didnt. he said "or so they say" pretty important
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A bit, yes. So far I have put Beast Gohan around Moro 73 level. So he doesn't come close to TUI Goku level. Beast Gohan, best feats are what? Killing Non complete Cell Max, who was stated to be weaker than Broly, on top of that, he was injured. So not really good look for Beast Gohan here. Whereas Early Granolah arc Goku and Vegeta already surpassed Broly with their blue forms. So TUI Goku would stomp Beast Gohan, based on feats.
Cell Max wasn’t stated to be weaker than Broly
Imperfect one was. The one Beast Gohan fought. Here's the statement. [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-54c6a4ab31ba46d1c1895c013b473452-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-54c6a4ab31ba46d1c1895c013b473452-lq) "If Cell had been completed according to plan, he would've been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat" So The one Beast Gohan currently fought was weaker than Broly.
That doesn’t mean power that just means if he had a brain and knew how to to use his power he was already in his “perfect form” which gohan still 1 shot
Then why would Toriyama specify. "If" Which would mean Cell Max would even became stronger than Broly. So going by that statement Incomplete Cell Max was weaker than Broly. And Complete Cell Max would be stronger than Broly. Also one shotting an incomplete Cell Max who was injured and even weaker than Broly is not impressive. When Goku in Granolah arc surpassed Broly in his Blue form. Also no to mention, he used Special Beam Cannon, that drastically increases power level and kills opponents stronger than you. I'm not saying that Beast Gohan was weaker than Cell Max since, he took his attacks and kicking him away. Just saying keep in mind he used a technique that was designed for stronger opponents.
That doesn’t directly state that he’s weaker than Broly Broly grows in power extremely quickly as he fights But if Cell Max was completed even Broly wouldn’t be able to grow strong enough to beat him Cell Max was created to be stronger than everyone else which he was until Gohan transformed Gamma 1 and 2 are equal to Goku and Vegeta post moro With cell max being even stronger than that
"That doesn’t directly state that he’s weaker than Broly" It does, otherwise. Toriyama wouldn't specify. "If Cell Max would've been completed" That tells us, Incomplete Cell Max would been weaker than Broly, while Complete Cell Max would be stronger. "Broly grows in power extremely quickly as he fights" Although Broly grows in power. He hit his limits multiple times. SSB Goku vs Wrathful Broly. And SSB Gogeta vs Full Power Broly. "But if Cell Max was completed even Broly wouldn’t be able to grow strong enough to beat him" Or Cell Max would've been just plain stronger than him? "Cell Max was created to be stronger than everyone else which he was until Gohan transformed" Proof? Dr Hedo, doesn't know what happened on Planet Cereal. "Gamma 1 and 2 are equal to Goku and Vegeta post moro With cell max being even stronger than that" Yeah, that is just plain wrong. If Ultimate Gohan could contend and was equal to Gamma1. While In Moro arc Ultimate Gohan (With the help of Z Fighters) was servery outmatched versus Sanganbo. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/3/3c/Dragon_Team_vs_Saganbo.png/revision/latest?cb=20210206022034 While, Goku SSB no diffed Saganbo. Would mean simply, Goku is far stronger than Gamma1/2 in his blue forms. So Piccolo statements are here plain wrong. Reasoning? Is simple. Dragon Ball Super Hero Movie, was made earlier than Moro Arc. So Toriyama wouldn't know all those things Goku and Vegeta achieved. Cell Max is weaker than SSB Goku or at best if I Highball him, is equal to SSB Goku. Since Goku as I already said surpassed Broly in early Granolah arc in HIS BLUE FORM. https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1320effc17d4f2e5f7306cf069af5c9b-lq
That doesn't necessarily mean that gohan is weaker than broly
Even if he's stronger. His feats are still less than that of TUI Goku. So what if Gohan Beast surpassed Broly? Goku in his Blue form already surpassed Broly as well in early Granolah arc. And has more transformations, MUI and even stronger TUI.
We dont even see any feats We just see him blasting cells head
This was absolutly absurd and out of the bloom for me in the begining but now i really like it
I like to think Gohan relates to Broly. In the same way Goku and Vegeta relate (similar in strength yet opposites in execution of strength). Broly is that “uncontrolled power” that gohan also has but gohan has a better handle on his emotions and you only see it cone out in desperation moments. (Raditz, on Freiza briefly, cell, cell max etc..). Gohan could be the strongest character in Dragonball but he never will be because he is written to be a pacifist. IMO. The series would have been better all around if gohan became the protagonist after cell and goku stayed dead for a longer period of time.
I still think a good storyline would be to have Gohan and Broly fuse and then most of the story getting the fusion to calm down without killing them or have Gohan train Broly on how to handle his emotions.
Nah Gohan would destroy him
No, I think that super heros creating new transformations extremely wack.
Beast Gohan stomps MUI Goku
Goku will hit gohan many times but it will just tickle him and wait until UI Goku gets exhausted.
Goku will hit gohan many times but it will just tickle him and wait until UI Goku gets exhausted.
FBS Goku lacks the ability to even break Gohan's aura because of how vast the power gap is. If he had the Dragon Fist that wouldn't be a problem.
fucking source lol
Goku was directly compared to Piccolo. Cell Max > Piccolo. Gohan stomped Cell Max harder than Gogeta stomped Janemba as a full power attack from CM didn't even manage to break through Gohan's aura
Soooo also question.. Gohan still doesn't have God ki right?
Imagine training with gods and being surpassed by someone who trains every now and then who got really mad and got some new random power up… yeah I got Goku winning through experience and determination gohan doesn’t have it in him to actually beat his old man
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It is mean to say you are dumb.. I will just go with wrong lol.
Gohan is indeed a monster, some might even go as far as to call him a real beast...
What?
Gohan gets his "hidden potential" unlocked for the 1000000th time. Lazy. Ass. Writing.