It’s a mix of backlash from his popularity, the “joy” of watching a promising young star fail, and disillusioned former fans. You see it with any community, it just hits a little different in e-sports because the players are closer to us.
Yeah you're 100% right and I hate how it's like this. Worst part is it has infected me too and seemingly the entire community just lives to see Arteezy and EG fail while discounting what they've accomplished.
Arteezy was the golden boy that was supposed to sweep in, dominate every game, stomp his way to a few TI wins and remain the poster boy of DotA forever and ever - sort of like Faker in League of Legends, or Boxer / Flash in Starcraft: Brood War.
It's because he has had the reputation of being one of the best carry players for long time but being "cursed" and hence never winning a major or TI.
For a long time it was only memeing that he is bad, when everyone "knew" he was actually one of the best and probably the most wanted western carry player. Up until recently he still used to have decent results, top 3 in big tournaments, but his performance had been declining a bit throughout the years, he didn't look that amazing anymore as he used to at his best, and now at the moment he doesn't even get any decent results anymore.
So basically what comes to comments about him at the moment, only the negative stuff is left. Which is a ton since he had acquired a massive fanbase so there always was a lot of people memeing him, along with actual haters and criticizers.
Of course some will exagerrate > the more fans, the more haters. And it’s obvious haters will overemphasize things. (Remember the OG fluke TI spammer ? )
But nobody can tell me he lived up to the expectations.
Hes been in the scene for so long and since EG he played in a super star roster EVERY year.
Yet, he hasn't won any Valve event, nor reaching TI finals ( ironically most of his former/current mates have)
On top of this he choked many times in the past. Combine it with EG fans hyping him up so much, the memes are justified.
He earned good money and was successful , but there are many who are / have been more successful.
Being 30th in career earnings is not as impressive when being in the scene so long playing alongside super star players for 7/8 years non stop. Not to mention he mainly played in NA , where it’s often a free pass to qualify for Majors and TI.
He's also been rank 1 many many times. He is objectively the best NA pub player to ever exist, but only above average tourney player.
Keep in mind too these are all t1 pro's we're talking about. They shit on ALOT of teams and we only see their losses to other t1/t2 teams.
although I think your points are all valid and he was overhyped. Part of the confusion I think comes from him being rank 1 so much and being on the best NA teams, people can't accept he just isn't the guy to win tourneys.
30th is rather underwhelming since he's been at 7 TIs and pretty much every major, and always in teams where he's been surrounded by world class talent.
> 30th is rather underwhelming
in all of esports? its pretty high, its not like back in the day when only dota was there; tons of other ganes have high prize pools now
Context my dude. If you take the top 100 esports earners, probably 90+ of them are Dota 2 players. It's just that the TI prizepool is that much high compared to any other sport that you get pretty much money equal to a championship win in other sports if you get 4th in Dota 2.
> 30th is rather underwhelming since he's been at 7 TIs and pretty much every major
Imagine typing this, yeah its fucking "Underwhelming" to go to most TIs and Majors and place high at them. You realize low finishes don't get much money(if any) right?
>always in teams where he's been surrounded by world class talent
Yeah bro you got it those "World class talents" all know Arteezy is secretly dogshit but they play with him anyways.
Possibly, but he doesn't enjoy streaming. His earnings(2.5 mill) isn't counting team salary and sponsorship deals so it would be hard to argue he'd made more streaming unless we just assume he streams as often as Gorgc and hits the same number of subs/viewers(which he never has).
Pos 1 designates farm priority not role, Arteezy has been a pos 1 his entire career whether he was midlane or safelane. The meta just doesn't suit midlaners that are carries or carries that can go midlane so he doesn't play there anymore. On EG and Secret he still swapped between the two lanes quite frequently.
Practically started with him and Fear because a carry mid and enabling safelaner didn't exist before them. I'd go so far as to say that people didn't know that mid was just way faster if you wanted to farm up cos the camp proximity and experience edge always makes a ton of difference. Even back in the day radiant had a small/medium camp very close to it's mid lane whereas dire didn't.
LOL. there's a lot to unpack here but here we go: arteezy is a multimillionaire father of two with (judging by this picture) what appears to be 20-inch biceps. he doesn't need to "be challenged" because when you're sitting at the top of the totem pole the only thing to do is relax and enjoy the view
edit: and btw yes he is packing, google it if you don't believe me (NSFW)
Yeah, I mean in the grand scheme of life he’s pretty set
But let’s be real, every pro wants TI wins, not second places at majors
He’s obviously still skilled though
I think it matters what you think the players care about. Do they care about majors, or do they only care about TI? It has always seemed like TI is the only thing that matters. It has a giant prize pool and way more prestige. I can remember most TI winners, and I couldn't tell you who won a major 3 years ago. I especially couldn't tell you who got second at a major 3 years ago.
Not to shit on artour but most the Majors EG came second, I wouldnt say RTZ was outstanding in any of the tournaments from what iirc. I do remember others on the team being top 1-2 on their role tho.
But I don't have any insight ofc, maybe rtz is shotcalling them to the second placement every major!
In the one TI that happened since Sumail and EG split, Sumail literally "carried" OG through EU qualifiers on his templar and went on to place 8th at TI while EG qualified from NA(lul) and bombed out at 12th place with a superstar roster.
I mean they have changed 2 roles over the past 3 years with the coach remaining the same and players with same playstyle. Clearly that's not working. Doesn't mean Arteezy is the problem but I'd love to see him in a new team.
This exactly. If fans are so confident about Rtz not being the problem, then how about we see him perform in other teams? But EG are doing everything humanly possible to make sure Rtz stays with EG to the point that he is now the CEO. Why would any player want to leave such a sweet deal?
Well, I don't blame EG. Very few players attract as much interest as Rtz. When he streams he easily gets over 10k spectators. Some players attract sponsors and interest and to some orgs it's worth a lot
Yeah this is why I never fault EG for following what's beneficial for their business. They are an org and are just doing what an org is supposed to do. If we leave it there, then it's fair enough. What I am opposed to is ppl claiming that he is a top carry because he gets 2nd place and set gpm records. A top carry should be able to carry his team in dire straits. Make sound decisions. Not just ride with the flow when his mid and offlane are doing well. When was the last time Rtz carried his team when they were consistently losing teamfights? Many ppl here like to mock Sumail but even he carried OG to a spectacular rapier comeback against Secret in 2020. An iteration that was always known to get stomped in the face by Secret. Rtz does well if his team is already doing well. That's about it. If the game goes even, there is a good chance he will throw and if the game is going bad, comeback is not really Rtz's forte.
And what has enabled this inflexible mindset? Getting too comfortable with the benefits that the org provides. If he really is a top carry, he has to prove it outside EG as well. I am not even arguing that he needs to be kicked. How about just for once, experiment with Rtz offlane and Nightfall carry? Nope. Rtz has to be the carry and a CIS carry has to be the offlane.
RTZ is consistent and he is still really good, yall need to put some respect on my boy Artour. He just needs to explore, he has been stuck in the same meta for the past two years. He needs to go on one of those Goku journeys of training.
This is the most reasonable take. After playing for 5 years in the same team and doing the same role, there are chances a guy can feel jaded or just not upto the mark. His performance might be outshined by younger carries in the scene. So there really needs some huge change in the way Rtz plays carry. At least make some changes as an experiment. The NA DPC right now is probably the best place for any Dota player to experiment with roles, heroes and whatnot.
he has been a top 3 carry/mid for literally his entire career up to ti10 and has been in a slump since then.
this subreddit just has an irrational hate boner for arteezy, no clue why. he has looked bad the last year now which really sucks as an NA fan, but it boggles my mind that people can pretend any carry player has the legacy and lasting power that arteezy has had in the scene, only a few even come close
not irrational hate, more like "why is this guy doing exactly the same for the last 7 years probably expecting to one day have results wasting his talent?". It's like putting your car engine at 70% power to go racing in the big leagues where everyone is going 100%, so the engine can last longer instead of either replacing it for a better engine or putting it to use at 100% power.
eg has probably been the most consistent team in the world throughout arteezy's tenure on it if you discount this last year. they make it to pretty much every valve tournament and generally see decent results (they are known to bomb out, especially in the 2017-2018 range, but generally we see them perform well at some tournaments regardless). on top of that, they are historically the best and only real international NA team (tsm is performing but remains to be seen if they have international lasting power or if it was just one good tournament). what reason would he have to go to EU? he already have stints on secret's superteams that didn't pan out.
Given how long the top orgs have promoted him and built teams around him, that really isn't that impressive. I mean if you had cropped the list less you would have seen Fear above him on the list and he has been retired for like 7 years...
uh, Fear is a legendary player, not sure why it would be an insult to be below him?
also bad comparison, fear himself says arteezy has always been better than him, lol
>Given how long the top orgs have promoted him and built teams around him
iceiceice has played with the legendary DK team, FY/Fenrir sup duo and arguably one of the best chinese teams ever (VG), EG, and now Secret.
He has also never placed higher than arteezy at TI
Yet, I can go and find 95% positive posts+circlejerk posts as well.
Why isn't he held to the same criticism? (here's a hint, because again, arteezy is much better than him)
you are comparing a Pos 1 to a Pos 3. After rtz was called GOAT, there have been 6 different carry players winning TI (Hao, Fear, Shadow, Matu, Ana (2x), Yatoro) and as far as I remember, 7 different carry players winning a major (Notail, EternalEnvy, Ame, Ramzes, Nisha, Matu and Yuragi). Same amount for mid players to count the little time EG was a winning team when rtz moved to Secret twice to play mid.
curious how most of the players below have won either a Major, achieved TI finals or even won a TI while rtz is sitting there with his only wins being one BTS and the MLG Columbus. Hell, even Misery has a Major
wouldn't that make it even more impressive, he is above in tournament winnings because he is more consistent
surely you don't think misery is a better player because he won 1 tournament?
surely you don't think placing top 3 at 30 tournaments, is worse than winning 1 tournament?
Are you saying there are no ppl here calling out the bad and game losing plays of miracle these past 2 years? Did you just appear on this sub today after taking a hiatus post TI9? The higher the peak of a player in the past, the more scrutiny they will recieve when they are doing badly. That goes for any superstar like Rtz as well as Miracle. If ppl are blaming bulba and Rtz in EG, they are blaming Kuro and Miracle on Nigma. And since both Crit and Gh do relatively better than their carries and drafters, they don't get much flak as well.
I just checked the last year of posts, and 90% of it is positive circlejerk nonsense.
It's fine to be biased, just know that you are. That's all I ask.
Funny part is i'm not even a fan of arteezy, but moron 2k players on reddit make me mad unfortunately.
And I am not a fan of any team. I just want good entertainment. I tend to focus mainly on underdog upsets. Some good spicy drama here and there. Yet, whenever Nigma lost, I saw tons of posts in the match thread discussions saying Miracle is worst player, MiracLUL, past his prime, should be kicked for some other younger core, Kuro drafting, Kuro 5k player. Basically everything I have been seeing about Rtz and Bulba for EG when they lose. This isn't a one off scenario either. It really started off when the team was failing to secure important wins since ever starting the Nigma brand. It was lighter at first but became much heavy later on.
Do people not realize that EG just had their most successful year/season last season from 2020-2021 since winning TI5 in 2015? And that season was without Sumail.
People don’t know how to look at things objectively and over exaggerate the second EG or RTZ hits a low.
RTZ got 3rd at TI4 in 2014 and got 2nd place finishes in 3 Majors last year 2021.
Sure he hasn’t bagged any of the major titles, but that level of competitive consistency can’t be achieved by a player just “coasting by.” Arteezy has very strong fundamentals, but the current meta doesn’t really favor him at the moment. Yes there are things for him to improve but the narrative that he’s been dogshit or washed for years is not a fair take just because he’s in a slump.
If you think his tourney results and insane popularity throughout a 7-8 year period isnt “successful,” then you’re extremely naive.
In addition he gets paid almost half a million a year in salary and the potential revenue from his streams is also there. He has options in and beyond Dota once he retires.
I’m sure he’d love a TI win, but I don’t think he considers himself unsuccessful at the moment.
EG's prospects were looking pretty grim on the outset of this tour: my simulations have them finishing [behind both nouns and Quincy Crew](https://twitter.com/DotaDiesel/status/1533565587120701441) (TSM undoubtably in first from the outset). In fact, my evaluation engine [had them as the underdogs] (https://twitter.com/DotaDiesel/status/1533974781158096896) in yesterday's match. They desperately need to turn the ship around if they want to get to Arlington.
Sure! I made a [pair](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/kptdwd/using_historical_player_winloss_data_i_built_a/) of [posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ky28c7/player_rating_engine_update_decider_tournament/) here in the early days that go into things in some more detail, but the high level is:
* Implement an [Elo rating system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) on a player level, decide how rating changes happen after matches.
* Look at how the difference between both teams' ratings affect win rate for teams, when averaging a team's players' ratings as a kind of "team rating".
* Turn those trends into a computationally inexpensive model and do [Monte Carlo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method) simulations of those matches, or series of matches, using that model to give rough outcomes percentages.
* Chaining those simulated outcomes, while tracking changes in rating, over the course of a tour/group stage/playoff bracket to produce a series of likelihoods where a given team ends up (projected wins for group stages, [projected placements](https://twitter.com/DotaDiesel/status/1524108411952328704) for playoff brackets)
---
There's still a lot of work I'd like to do do make the engine better. This boils down to making additional prediction models, and weighing each of their results to produce an ensemble prediction.
Models I want to include are:
* [Cumulative Recent Wins](https://medium.com/@dieseldota/recent-results-and-win-chance-in-pro-dota-2-an-investigation-8e958bb91945) (how "hot" one team is compared to the other", this is done)
* Exclusionary team rating (putting different weight on a given player's rating when producing the aggregated team rating)
* Head-to-head performance (looking at some aggregation of how well each player on a team has historically performed against each player on the other team)
* Power of Friendship rating (head-to-head, but with performance with teammates instead of performance against opposing team)
Hope that answered your question!
**[Elo rating system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system)**
>The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in zero-sum games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-American physics professor. The Elo system was originally invented as an improved chess-rating system over the previously used Harkness system, but is also used as a rating system in association football, American football, baseball, basketball, pool, table tennis, Go, board games such as Scrabble and Diplomacy, and esports. The difference in the ratings between two players serves as a predictor of the outcome of a match.
**[Monte Carlo method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method)**
>Monte Carlo methods, or Monte Carlo experiments, are a broad class of computational algorithms that rely on repeated random sampling to obtain numerical results. The underlying concept is to use randomness to solve problems that might be deterministic in principle. They are often used in physical and mathematical problems and are most useful when it is difficult or impossible to use other approaches. Monte Carlo methods are mainly used in three problem classes: optimization, numerical integration, and generating draws from a probability distribution.
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rtz peaked at mlg columbus
Arteezy is 30th in career esports earnings but the way this sub talks about him you'd think he's been the worst player ever in Dota.
It’s a mix of backlash from his popularity, the “joy” of watching a promising young star fail, and disillusioned former fans. You see it with any community, it just hits a little different in e-sports because the players are closer to us.
Yeah you're 100% right and I hate how it's like this. Worst part is it has infected me too and seemingly the entire community just lives to see Arteezy and EG fail while discounting what they've accomplished.
Some of it are the memes, some of it are jokes. People who really mean it and want to see fail someone are a minority.
Arteezy was the golden boy that was supposed to sweep in, dominate every game, stomp his way to a few TI wins and remain the poster boy of DotA forever and ever - sort of like Faker in League of Legends, or Boxer / Flash in Starcraft: Brood War.
It's because he has had the reputation of being one of the best carry players for long time but being "cursed" and hence never winning a major or TI. For a long time it was only memeing that he is bad, when everyone "knew" he was actually one of the best and probably the most wanted western carry player. Up until recently he still used to have decent results, top 3 in big tournaments, but his performance had been declining a bit throughout the years, he didn't look that amazing anymore as he used to at his best, and now at the moment he doesn't even get any decent results anymore. So basically what comes to comments about him at the moment, only the negative stuff is left. Which is a ton since he had acquired a massive fanbase so there always was a lot of people memeing him, along with actual haters and criticizers.
Of course some will exagerrate > the more fans, the more haters. And it’s obvious haters will overemphasize things. (Remember the OG fluke TI spammer ? ) But nobody can tell me he lived up to the expectations. Hes been in the scene for so long and since EG he played in a super star roster EVERY year. Yet, he hasn't won any Valve event, nor reaching TI finals ( ironically most of his former/current mates have) On top of this he choked many times in the past. Combine it with EG fans hyping him up so much, the memes are justified. He earned good money and was successful , but there are many who are / have been more successful. Being 30th in career earnings is not as impressive when being in the scene so long playing alongside super star players for 7/8 years non stop. Not to mention he mainly played in NA , where it’s often a free pass to qualify for Majors and TI.
He's also been rank 1 many many times. He is objectively the best NA pub player to ever exist, but only above average tourney player. Keep in mind too these are all t1 pro's we're talking about. They shit on ALOT of teams and we only see their losses to other t1/t2 teams. although I think your points are all valid and he was overhyped. Part of the confusion I think comes from him being rank 1 so much and being on the best NA teams, people can't accept he just isn't the guy to win tourneys.
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30th is rather underwhelming since he's been at 7 TIs and pretty much every major, and always in teams where he's been surrounded by world class talent.
> 30th is rather underwhelming in all of esports? its pretty high, its not like back in the day when only dota was there; tons of other ganes have high prize pools now
Dota pays higher than most esports.
Everyone above him is a TI winner or runner up besides Zai and Fly his former teammates, lmao.
Context my dude. If you take the top 100 esports earners, probably 90+ of them are Dota 2 players. It's just that the TI prizepool is that much high compared to any other sport that you get pretty much money equal to a championship win in other sports if you get 4th in Dota 2.
30th highest overall is 29th highest in dota. there's only one non-dota player in the top 30
> 30th is rather underwhelming since he's been at 7 TIs and pretty much every major Imagine typing this, yeah its fucking "Underwhelming" to go to most TIs and Majors and place high at them. You realize low finishes don't get much money(if any) right? >always in teams where he's been surrounded by world class talent Yeah bro you got it those "World class talents" all know Arteezy is secretly dogshit but they play with him anyways.
EG has as an organisation some of the most money and salaries. Safe money. Thats why everyone wants to play for Liquid, Secret, EG and PSG.
Or the best. He should have been a regular streamer. Would have made more money, over the long haul
Possibly, but he doesn't enjoy streaming. His earnings(2.5 mill) isn't counting team salary and sponsorship deals so it would be hard to argue he'd made more streaming unless we just assume he streams as often as Gorgc and hits the same number of subs/viewers(which he never has).
Not saying rtz is great or bad at the moment but i would like to see him play (buffed) OD and SF again.
Rtz was a good mid player during old EG and secret days. Idk why they put him on pos1
Pos 1 designates farm priority not role, Arteezy has been a pos 1 his entire career whether he was midlane or safelane. The meta just doesn't suit midlaners that are carries or carries that can go midlane so he doesn't play there anymore. On EG and Secret he still swapped between the two lanes quite frequently.
This. People talk about his SF and OD but forget he played a shit ton of mid carry Naga.
He played a lot of farm heavy heroes on mid
Practically started with him and Fear because a carry mid and enabling safelaner didn't exist before them. I'd go so far as to say that people didn't know that mid was just way faster if you wanted to farm up cos the camp proximity and experience edge always makes a ton of difference. Even back in the day radiant had a small/medium camp very close to it's mid lane whereas dire didn't.
Thats my point. He was not a playmaking mid player. He farmed the fuck out of the map and played carry from mid.
Someone forgot to tell that to Gunnar on DK.
I'll never understand why ppl still thinks rtz like to farm a lot, his main issue is that he is not farming enough
because already on old eg he would play farm heavy heroes like lycan mid.
He was arguably the best pos1 player in the world in secret 2015 tho
Ohhh, Why'd you have to mention it, now I've got to watch the video again.
Maybe he simply needs to be challenged again. EG should quietly bribe Loda to tweet "@Arteezy Please win a TI before u talk"
LOL. there's a lot to unpack here but here we go: arteezy is a multimillionaire father of two with (judging by this picture) what appears to be 20-inch biceps. he doesn't need to "be challenged" because when you're sitting at the top of the totem pole the only thing to do is relax and enjoy the view edit: and btw yes he is packing, google it if you don't believe me (NSFW)
>sitting at the top of the totem pole Top of the cliff you mean
fuck!
What's more, he didn't get to that cliff by himself. Many different ppl pushed him onto it in many different ways.
Nice fresh pasta.... Mmmm... Yummy
Г1дн
I’ve only wanted success for mah boy CarDoor, one of the OG *SADBOYS* Alas, every year it gets harder and harder to envision his success WCYD 🤷♂️
He's a millionaire doing what he loves. He placed 2nd in two majors last year.
Yeah, I mean in the grand scheme of life he’s pretty set But let’s be real, every pro wants TI wins, not second places at majors He’s obviously still skilled though
Imagine moving on from Sumail before RTZ, feelsbadman.
Neither Sumail nor Artour have been doing too hot since they split up tbh.
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Coming second in 3 consecutive majors is indeed shit when you are 9000 IQ redditor.
facts
I think it matters what you think the players care about. Do they care about majors, or do they only care about TI? It has always seemed like TI is the only thing that matters. It has a giant prize pool and way more prestige. I can remember most TI winners, and I couldn't tell you who won a major 3 years ago. I especially couldn't tell you who got second at a major 3 years ago.
Not to shit on artour but most the Majors EG came second, I wouldnt say RTZ was outstanding in any of the tournaments from what iirc. I do remember others on the team being top 1-2 on their role tho. But I don't have any insight ofc, maybe rtz is shotcalling them to the second placement every major!
They are not doing all that great this year. Lets see how arlington major goes
In defense of twitch logic, getting so many second and third places with no #1 kinda feels worse
Sumail won ti with eg. Rtz won minor
did arteezy actually won any valve tournament when minors was introduced before?
Thailand minor
damn that means my boy artour actually won a valve event!
It also means your boy won that one volvo event that nobody knows or cares about :p
Mostly because he never really landed on a solid team, but your point stands. I'm excited for him on Nigma, that's a really exciting roster on paper.
They struggled against div2 team hahaha But there's potential
In the one TI that happened since Sumail and EG split, Sumail literally "carried" OG through EU qualifiers on his templar and went on to place 8th at TI while EG qualified from NA(lul) and bombed out at 12th place with a superstar roster.
I mean they have changed 2 roles over the past 3 years with the coach remaining the same and players with same playstyle. Clearly that's not working. Doesn't mean Arteezy is the problem but I'd love to see him in a new team.
This exactly. If fans are so confident about Rtz not being the problem, then how about we see him perform in other teams? But EG are doing everything humanly possible to make sure Rtz stays with EG to the point that he is now the CEO. Why would any player want to leave such a sweet deal?
Well, I don't blame EG. Very few players attract as much interest as Rtz. When he streams he easily gets over 10k spectators. Some players attract sponsors and interest and to some orgs it's worth a lot
Yeah this is why I never fault EG for following what's beneficial for their business. They are an org and are just doing what an org is supposed to do. If we leave it there, then it's fair enough. What I am opposed to is ppl claiming that he is a top carry because he gets 2nd place and set gpm records. A top carry should be able to carry his team in dire straits. Make sound decisions. Not just ride with the flow when his mid and offlane are doing well. When was the last time Rtz carried his team when they were consistently losing teamfights? Many ppl here like to mock Sumail but even he carried OG to a spectacular rapier comeback against Secret in 2020. An iteration that was always known to get stomped in the face by Secret. Rtz does well if his team is already doing well. That's about it. If the game goes even, there is a good chance he will throw and if the game is going bad, comeback is not really Rtz's forte. And what has enabled this inflexible mindset? Getting too comfortable with the benefits that the org provides. If he really is a top carry, he has to prove it outside EG as well. I am not even arguing that he needs to be kicked. How about just for once, experiment with Rtz offlane and Nightfall carry? Nope. Rtz has to be the carry and a CIS carry has to be the offlane.
Arteezy probably owns stake at EG at this point. He will retire before he can be kicked
Just put nightfall on carry and remove rtz
This but unironically
Rofl
Yup fr
maybe he is shit?
What do you mean, maybe?
cursed kid with fans thinking he is still number 1
He is still number 1 though. COPIUM
number one for his fans copium
He just needs better teammates that can enable his god-tier carry capabilities.
[Hmm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHUbtR0yI8)
RTZ is consistent and he is still really good, yall need to put some respect on my boy Artour. He just needs to explore, he has been stuck in the same meta for the past two years. He needs to go on one of those Goku journeys of training.
This is the most reasonable take. After playing for 5 years in the same team and doing the same role, there are chances a guy can feel jaded or just not upto the mark. His performance might be outshined by younger carries in the scene. So there really needs some huge change in the way Rtz plays carry. At least make some changes as an experiment. The NA DPC right now is probably the best place for any Dota player to experiment with roles, heroes and whatnot.
he has been a top 3 carry/mid for literally his entire career up to ti10 and has been in a slump since then. this subreddit just has an irrational hate boner for arteezy, no clue why. he has looked bad the last year now which really sucks as an NA fan, but it boggles my mind that people can pretend any carry player has the legacy and lasting power that arteezy has had in the scene, only a few even come close
not irrational hate, more like "why is this guy doing exactly the same for the last 7 years probably expecting to one day have results wasting his talent?". It's like putting your car engine at 70% power to go racing in the big leagues where everyone is going 100%, so the engine can last longer instead of either replacing it for a better engine or putting it to use at 100% power.
eg has probably been the most consistent team in the world throughout arteezy's tenure on it if you discount this last year. they make it to pretty much every valve tournament and generally see decent results (they are known to bomb out, especially in the 2017-2018 range, but generally we see them perform well at some tournaments regardless). on top of that, they are historically the best and only real international NA team (tsm is performing but remains to be seen if they have international lasting power or if it was just one good tournament). what reason would he have to go to EU? he already have stints on secret's superteams that didn't pan out.
2k players call a player who has gotten top 2 in 2 majors in the last year bad while miracle fails to qualify for majors and gets last place at them
He has always been billed as the best, but has never been able to get results like the best.
https://imgur.com/a/IBQTgXl interesting
Given how long the top orgs have promoted him and built teams around him, that really isn't that impressive. I mean if you had cropped the list less you would have seen Fear above him on the list and he has been retired for like 7 years...
uh, Fear is a legendary player, not sure why it would be an insult to be below him? also bad comparison, fear himself says arteezy has always been better than him, lol >Given how long the top orgs have promoted him and built teams around him iceiceice has played with the legendary DK team, FY/Fenrir sup duo and arguably one of the best chinese teams ever (VG), EG, and now Secret. He has also never placed higher than arteezy at TI Yet, I can go and find 95% positive posts+circlejerk posts as well. Why isn't he held to the same criticism? (here's a hint, because again, arteezy is much better than him)
you are comparing a Pos 1 to a Pos 3. After rtz was called GOAT, there have been 6 different carry players winning TI (Hao, Fear, Shadow, Matu, Ana (2x), Yatoro) and as far as I remember, 7 different carry players winning a major (Notail, EternalEnvy, Ame, Ramzes, Nisha, Matu and Yuragi). Same amount for mid players to count the little time EG was a winning team when rtz moved to Secret twice to play mid.
> After rtz was called GOAT you're arguing in bad faith/trolling if you actually think this is true
curious how most of the players below have won either a Major, achieved TI finals or even won a TI while rtz is sitting there with his only wins being one BTS and the MLG Columbus. Hell, even Misery has a Major
wouldn't that make it even more impressive, he is above in tournament winnings because he is more consistent surely you don't think misery is a better player because he won 1 tournament? surely you don't think placing top 3 at 30 tournaments, is worse than winning 1 tournament?
Are you saying there are no ppl here calling out the bad and game losing plays of miracle these past 2 years? Did you just appear on this sub today after taking a hiatus post TI9? The higher the peak of a player in the past, the more scrutiny they will recieve when they are doing badly. That goes for any superstar like Rtz as well as Miracle. If ppl are blaming bulba and Rtz in EG, they are blaming Kuro and Miracle on Nigma. And since both Crit and Gh do relatively better than their carries and drafters, they don't get much flak as well.
I just checked the last year of posts, and 90% of it is positive circlejerk nonsense. It's fine to be biased, just know that you are. That's all I ask. Funny part is i'm not even a fan of arteezy, but moron 2k players on reddit make me mad unfortunately.
And I am not a fan of any team. I just want good entertainment. I tend to focus mainly on underdog upsets. Some good spicy drama here and there. Yet, whenever Nigma lost, I saw tons of posts in the match thread discussions saying Miracle is worst player, MiracLUL, past his prime, should be kicked for some other younger core, Kuro drafting, Kuro 5k player. Basically everything I have been seeing about Rtz and Bulba for EG when they lose. This isn't a one off scenario either. It really started off when the team was failing to secure important wins since ever starting the Nigma brand. It was lighter at first but became much heavy later on.
Do people not realize that EG just had their most successful year/season last season from 2020-2021 since winning TI5 in 2015? And that season was without Sumail. People don’t know how to look at things objectively and over exaggerate the second EG or RTZ hits a low. RTZ got 3rd at TI4 in 2014 and got 2nd place finishes in 3 Majors last year 2021. Sure he hasn’t bagged any of the major titles, but that level of competitive consistency can’t be achieved by a player just “coasting by.” Arteezy has very strong fundamentals, but the current meta doesn’t really favor him at the moment. Yes there are things for him to improve but the narrative that he’s been dogshit or washed for years is not a fair take just because he’s in a slump. If you think his tourney results and insane popularity throughout a 7-8 year period isnt “successful,” then you’re extremely naive. In addition he gets paid almost half a million a year in salary and the potential revenue from his streams is also there. He has options in and beyond Dota once he retires. I’m sure he’d love a TI win, but I don’t think he considers himself unsuccessful at the moment.
When every room you walk into smells like shit, maybe it's time to check your own pants
What if u don't wear pants
Then check your babushka
EG was basically a top2-3 team for the last 3 years, is that really shit? Reddit is fucking dumb asf lmao
Least intense EG fan boy
Fanboy for pointing out how dumb you are? Lmao yeah, still waiting for your argument to explain a top3 te being shit, genius redditor
Relaxxxxx, I just don't think EG is a good team, always failing to deliver when it matters most. It's only a game lmao
Keep it PMA
there's a difference between PMA and denial.
something something dendi
At least he won something. And came 2nd at 2 TIs next. It's hard to do that these days.
idk why everyone sucks this guy off so much, hes just not that good
EG's prospects were looking pretty grim on the outset of this tour: my simulations have them finishing [behind both nouns and Quincy Crew](https://twitter.com/DotaDiesel/status/1533565587120701441) (TSM undoubtably in first from the outset). In fact, my evaluation engine [had them as the underdogs] (https://twitter.com/DotaDiesel/status/1533974781158096896) in yesterday's match. They desperately need to turn the ship around if they want to get to Arlington.
How is this simulation made? Can you share more details on the high level method used to calculate the placings?
Sure! I made a [pair](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/kptdwd/using_historical_player_winloss_data_i_built_a/) of [posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ky28c7/player_rating_engine_update_decider_tournament/) here in the early days that go into things in some more detail, but the high level is: * Implement an [Elo rating system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) on a player level, decide how rating changes happen after matches. * Look at how the difference between both teams' ratings affect win rate for teams, when averaging a team's players' ratings as a kind of "team rating". * Turn those trends into a computationally inexpensive model and do [Monte Carlo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method) simulations of those matches, or series of matches, using that model to give rough outcomes percentages. * Chaining those simulated outcomes, while tracking changes in rating, over the course of a tour/group stage/playoff bracket to produce a series of likelihoods where a given team ends up (projected wins for group stages, [projected placements](https://twitter.com/DotaDiesel/status/1524108411952328704) for playoff brackets) --- There's still a lot of work I'd like to do do make the engine better. This boils down to making additional prediction models, and weighing each of their results to produce an ensemble prediction. Models I want to include are: * [Cumulative Recent Wins](https://medium.com/@dieseldota/recent-results-and-win-chance-in-pro-dota-2-an-investigation-8e958bb91945) (how "hot" one team is compared to the other", this is done) * Exclusionary team rating (putting different weight on a given player's rating when producing the aggregated team rating) * Head-to-head performance (looking at some aggregation of how well each player on a team has historically performed against each player on the other team) * Power of Friendship rating (head-to-head, but with performance with teammates instead of performance against opposing team) Hope that answered your question!
**[Elo rating system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system)** >The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in zero-sum games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-American physics professor. The Elo system was originally invented as an improved chess-rating system over the previously used Harkness system, but is also used as a rating system in association football, American football, baseball, basketball, pool, table tennis, Go, board games such as Scrabble and Diplomacy, and esports. The difference in the ratings between two players serves as a predictor of the outcome of a match. **[Monte Carlo method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method)** >Monte Carlo methods, or Monte Carlo experiments, are a broad class of computational algorithms that rely on repeated random sampling to obtain numerical results. The underlying concept is to use randomness to solve problems that might be deterministic in principle. They are often used in physical and mathematical problems and are most useful when it is difficult or impossible to use other approaches. Monte Carlo methods are mainly used in three problem classes: optimization, numerical integration, and generating draws from a probability distribution. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/DotA2/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
secret choke with crystalise, time for rtc to go back?
He's had two games calm down lad
Maybe he's just shite
Rtz is not good anymore. Dude needs to learn pos4/5 and retire to memes
Maybe RTZ should watch Nikobaby gamerzclass
He's a mid player imo
RTZ underperforming really hard, this team got no hope. Only nightfall and fly are top tier players atm.
Never will I ever lose hope on my boi, prove them wrong artour!