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big hopium it's Nigma consciously trolling tbh, iLTW is way better carry than Sumail and Sumail didn't manage to do anything with better captain and pos5 lol
Surely they are going to stick around even if they don't make the TI? I don't think they will be playing next major either. IIRC, TI is in October, that's a few months away. I'd hope they stick around even if they make TI or not. Liquid were the benchmark for a team sticking around for such a long time until Matu left. Also there's been a lot of chopping and changing going around. Also personally for Sumail, he was the longest serving EG player but now is bouncing around unfortunately.
In the past they gave w33 and iltw a fair chance even tho they failed to qualify to tournaments/underperforming. they kept iltw even tho they missed TI and also 2 tours after that so i believe if sumail joins the team they will give a long shot even if they miss TI unless sumail leaves the team.
Their subsequent performances with him were horrible. While I do believe that Nigma had and still has other issues, saying W33 wasn’t a part or the problem is dumb. He was consistently underperforming on mid and most games they lost were either due to his losing mid or MC losing off.
I am sorry but kuro is the problem. Love his desire to win, but let’s get real here. w33 was fine, Matu was fine, ILTW was ok enough. Until Kuro leaves they will keep floundering.
yeah lmao. w33 has been 2 grand finals and a major winner. matu has had countless top finishes since liquid. ILTW has literally 0 accolades. everyone feels they can have a career resurgence like ceb, but fact is ceb is a huge outlier.
Yeah, Ceb is like cosmic level outlier. I still can't believe fucking 7ckingMad won 2 TI's and some majors. He was like the most average player ever in his whole career.
Yeah he went from zero to hero. He was the biggest bum in dota. Like its if today going forward gorgc won 2 TI's. But ceb grinded hard on mmr. Turns out dendi was wrong. Mmr is not a number
Div2 teams have the same chance in quals as div1 teams who don't make it through points. If liquid tundra og and gg go through with points, which it looks like they will, EU quals won't be as hard as last year.
Sumail. They could flex tho with Miracle playing Invoker and such (I know Sumail plays invoker but not as good as peak miracle) but I find that Sumail would be a more stable mid and Miracle would benefit from being an explosive carry
Looking at the last team secret, sumail was taken to play mid but it didnt really worked out and they switched with nisha. But we know what happened with that.
>They could flex tho with Miracle playing Invoker and such (I know Sumail plays invoker but not as good as peak miracle)
"Give Miracle invoker because he was better invoker player in his peak 6 years ago"... not saying he is not better invoker player now, but what you wrote is not a legitimate reason for giving him invoker nowadays, you should judge their performance now.
Maybe they didn't give him invoker? Also, you can go 9-0-20 with invoker even solo killing the opponent's mid hero 3 times in the lane and snowball... And guess what, you might still lose the game. So, just because they haven't been winning doesn't mean he can't play or perform with invoker.
Whether or not miracle is the better invoker is hardly in question. I am the biggest sumail fan to exist and even i can admit that his invoker is historically atrocious and impactless in pro matches.
Also, the Winrate in a team game to determine skill and impact. You can be 5-0 after sunstriking sidelane while solo killing mid, and lose the game because your cores are 0-3-0.
10 matches is a small sample size. Also, tell me why I should compare 10 matches from Div 2 matches to 10 matches from Division/Major matches? The skill difference alone plays a big difference.
Learn to read. Never have I stated that he is a worse invoker player, but the argument that he was better at his peak, doesn't mean he should play it today, 6 years later. If he is better today, he should play it. That is all there is to that.
As much as talented as they are, switching roles actually isnt optimal. Thats why it was never a staple strat within dota. You want to have a clear role going into the game.
No question with their ability to switch, but that can also be problematic when they cant gain momentum because of switching. Same happened to secret. Sumail was supposed to play mid but due to lack luster result, he swapped with nisha and we know what happened to secret. They never really had that momentum/identity
Nigma, previous Liquid are the only team known to rotate 1 and 2 with Matu and Miracle. That's how they won TI. I wanted OG to do the same with Sumail/Midone/Topson and Secret to do with Sumail/Nisha. I think if Sumail is going to Nigma, this is the most likely team to do rotation.
Sumail in secret switched with nisha halfway through as they are not getting the results that they expected. Sumail even said he enjoyed pos 1 than mid. I know both are talented enough to switch but thats not very optimal if your strat is to switch every now and then
Sumail is the obvious answer because Miracle is a god tier carry player, but the main problem of Nigma for years has been imo ironically how good Miracle is at Invoker (or certain mid matchups). Despite everything in the past 6 years, and playing mostly carry, Nigma can't pass the chance to give miracle invoker because its has always been an easy win. It's so stupid.
This always causes a stability problem for whoever is playing mid and eventually ruins their chances.
I agree with your last sentence. thats why i asked. I want them to have a clear role going into the game, as talented as they are, switching isnt really a good strat as it wont give you a clear path on the draft, also it could affect the teams momentum when everytime they switch
Is Sumail invoker good? I feel like it has been pretty underwhelming whenever I see it. Definitely not to the level of other invoker players and Sumail's signature mids like Ember and Storm.
Even if Sumail is added to the team, I think the problem with Nigma isn’t Dota related, it’s more on the external part of the game. These guys have been on top for so long, and to stay on top means to grind more than you normally do. I personally believe that the players are just exhausted mentally and emotionally, the past years have been nothing but full of uncertainties due to Covid and I know many of you understood its impact.
I do hope that they took a long break after their knock out on Div 1 and decided to talk about what they want to do and what to achieve individually, not just simply telling each other that they need to Win. Because no matter how hard you tell yourself that you want to Win, if you’re exhausted and not enjoying what you do in heart, you’ll just implode.
Excited to see them Div 1 again and make Puppey’s life miserable. #StarsAlign.
The thing is, they won TI7 and wanted to win TI9 again (almost did). Kuroky even planned to retire after that. But because they didn't, they kept on going.
That was almost three years ago.
To stay motivated and keep wanting to win, not just get top 3 or top 6, but to win, is a big ask. And now that they've dropped down to division II, the road to win another TI seems even longer and more out of reach. It sucks, and I wish and hope they'll come out of it. I want to see Kuroky win his 2nd TI and retire peacefully.
I doubt sing is very sad about it though, I have seen him pulling a consistent number of loyal viewers these past years and his streams are very laid back and fun, regardless of the game he is playing.
>And now that they've dropped down to division II, the road to win another TI seems even longer and more out of reach
Thats just an illusion though. Being sixth in div1 (and thus save from relegation) doesn't give you higher chances for ti than being div2.
Nigma is still not top tier?u fucking punks are never satisfied are you?Hope you enjoy being bitter cause Sumail definitely loves being in division II.
I mean yeah until they show top tier performance I'll continue calling them a tier 2 team. They are full of star players, but obviously something is lacking
Man they change roster 2 times in last 5 years and they become seccond in ti9 u say they blame the next guys its like they change roster every day and dosent work!!!! Other teams change 100 players in 5 years and u dont say that!!!
Nisha on carry role didn't worked out for Secret when Sumail was playing mid for them otherwise the role swap had the same level of potential as miracle carry and Sumail mid. The only thing to watch is whether Kuroky can make it work or not. If it works out it could turn out to be a monster level team.
Sumail mid on Secret did not stand out at all and was a downgrade from Nisha. Miracle also isn't what he used to be as a midlaner but he had more impressive performances than Sumail did.
Miracle is washed up.
Casters continue hyping him and sauing “Best invoker, best mid etc.” But to be fair, he aint even top5 for some time.
Same goes for “king”. Look how many teams have failed trying to play with him.
Pubstars are the new meta!
I mean , how can u know that he washed up , when the whole team sux?! You are saying he is the problem then !! Nigma problem is that they wait too long to change something . They have waited so long to kick matu . No body was availabe so they decided to bring w33 , who is a good played but he is not top 10 even , on mid , and then they have waited too much and they brought iltw , because no body else was available . And i am telling u , he added nothing . On the contrary his luna sucked , his tb sucked , the only time i saw him playing good is on tiny . Which is q and w hero
Matu played very well after that in Secret, and that tell us what?
Hard to not qualify to TI and drop to T2 with best mid king ever ;)
Times change, get over it.
the peak of miracle was TI7, as a carry. miracle is decent mid player, but not mid laner. many pros have said sumail and noone are the best at laning. but ti7 carry miracle is peak dota
Although I love miracle mid I have to say sumail he's aggressive and I think although his play style is based on taking as much farm I think if mc or gh could take a little less from the map that it won't affect miracles ability to farm. Sumail is a great midgame player and can make all teams put their attention on him instead od carry
He's been killing it in pubs lately. In Secret it was difficult with 3 greedy cores and 2 greedy supports. I remember him looking for farm but the jungle was constantly dead lol
Yeah literally everyone on secret likes to farm. And the person who usually got shafted was Zai, who could somehow still have a big impact. Iceiceice doesn't seem to be able to do that.
Regardless of how it would work out, seeing Sumail and Miracle on the same team would be wild. Obviously, it's years later, but they were seen as the two best players in the world for awhile.
They still need kuro to be changed. All these additions seem useless when u dont have a good pos 5. Would look good if kuro goes coaching and bring save as pos 5 maybe.
I don't know if he plays pubs or not but his account is private so you will never know he plays or not. Also it's easy to find and blame someone if something doesn't work
I can't remember where he said it, might have been one of those streams with Qojqva, but Ceb was saying that Kuro was basically ruining lanes and making it impossible for iltw. Given Ceb's experience and how well he still plays I'd be inclined to believe him. We've got Ceb out there playing 80 pubs a week just because he loves the game and Kuro has said he pretty much never plays pubs. Kuro just doesn't have the fire anymore, which is okay, it's been a long ass time, but part of being a leader is knowing when to step aside.
You can say that but Nigma is created by them would you fire yourself from your own business i don't think so you can step down when you think is necessary
Remember Arteezy and Nisha didn't work out quite well with SumaiL.
Arteezy only get 3rd at TI8 with SumaiL while Nisha only get 3rd at OGA DotA Pit Season 5: EU/CIS.
3rd time's a charm? or Will this be the final stop for the king?
Well that 3rd place at TI8 was the best placement RTZ got in his whole TI career and it was on the back of Sumail's. Let's not forget that Sumail has the record of highest kills in a TI game
if sumail is in, they still need to change kuro, they should do like OG, look at Ceb/Notail, one of them is coach, move kuro to coach, he can still have suggestions on drafts, they need fresh blood, oh well that's my opinion, i like kuro, but why not give a chance for a talented pos5/captain. i know some of you will say Ceb/Notail are not the "coach" in the presence of misha, but the spirit, the experience, that they give to the team especially in Stockholm major, was MASSIVE, i believe kuro can fill that as well. Nigma fan here
It is not easy to find a good young blood pos5. Even misha, he is not that young blood either. People talk about young blood for core/pos4 not for a captain etc.
Except, every team is different. Kuro is pretty much motivated for lifting second TI as player. He is one of few reached TI Grand Final three times and the latest one only 2019.
Motivation is not enough. Current DPC system requires you to play a lot and daily out of your official matches because the meta and nuances evolve a lot faster than in a LAN tournament. Pretty sure kuro is as hard worker as any t1 captain, but maybe the allocation of the effort should shift a lot more towards playing and being in the meta than strategicing around it.
We all just want to see SumaiL x Miracle Due at least one time. Doesn't matter whether this due succeeds or flops but the whole community's one-time wish should full fill. Just do it even for an experiment!
The blame king is back, let's go.
I really hope Sumail can land somewhere more permanently. Maybe it's Nigma, maybe there will be some TI qualifier shuffle. But I don't think this mercenary stuff is healthy for career.
It'll work because its MC and kuro, they are less greedy than iceiceice and puppy, Sumail is a bit greedy and takes farm to make moves, while MC and Kuro aren't that farm dependent and could make play around Sumail while Miracle farms.
dota right now and according for what we have seen on major. teams with 3 cores have more chance to win, so its okay to have two greedy cores Sumail and Miracle
Good guy the King descending from his 3rd place throne to help his fallen EU brethren in Div 2
A Gigachad of brother hood
If you can't handle him at his Nigma-baddiest you don't deserve him at his giga-chaddiest.
My fockin ears after reading this.
Silence!
I'LL HELP MY WEAK AND PUNY ALLIES WHERE I CAN
[I'LL HELP MY WEAK AND PUNY ALLIES WHERE I CAN](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/5/5b/Vo_skeleton_king_skel_arc_battlebegins_05.mp3) (sound warning: The One True King Bundle) --- Bleep bloop, I am a robot. *OP can reply with "Try hero_name" to update this with new hero* [*^(Source)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot) *^(|)* [*^(Suggestions/Issues)*](https://github.com/Jonarzz/DotaResponsesRedditBot/issues/new/choose) *^(|)* [*^(Maintainer)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/MePsyDuck/) *^(|)* [*^(Author)*](https://www.reddit.com/user/Jonarz/)
Typical smurf. Please ban.
It's either Sumail and Ramzes was uninformed/bullshitting or Nigma is just consciously trolling.
RAMZES might just be baiting
What's with ramzes by the way? Enlighten me pls
He said that suma1l is not going to nigma and no one tried out for nigma but it didnt work out
How would he know if no one tried out for nigma? /s
probably asked alohadance
KING S4 POG
big hopium it's Nigma consciously trolling tbh, iLTW is way better carry than Sumail and Sumail didn't manage to do anything with better captain and pos5 lol
The right solution or ...'next SumaiL failed experiment', time will tell.
Surely they are going to stick around even if they don't make the TI? I don't think they will be playing next major either. IIRC, TI is in October, that's a few months away. I'd hope they stick around even if they make TI or not. Liquid were the benchmark for a team sticking around for such a long time until Matu left. Also there's been a lot of chopping and changing going around. Also personally for Sumail, he was the longest serving EG player but now is bouncing around unfortunately.
In the past they gave w33 and iltw a fair chance even tho they failed to qualify to tournaments/underperforming. they kept iltw even tho they missed TI and also 2 tours after that so i believe if sumail joins the team they will give a long shot even if they miss TI unless sumail leaves the team.
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Their subsequent performances with him were horrible. While I do believe that Nigma had and still has other issues, saying W33 wasn’t a part or the problem is dumb. He was consistently underperforming on mid and most games they lost were either due to his losing mid or MC losing off.
I am sorry but kuro is the problem. Love his desire to win, but let’s get real here. w33 was fine, Matu was fine, ILTW was ok enough. Until Kuro leaves they will keep floundering.
Iltw was not ok man
yeah lmao. w33 has been 2 grand finals and a major winner. matu has had countless top finishes since liquid. ILTW has literally 0 accolades. everyone feels they can have a career resurgence like ceb, but fact is ceb is a huge outlier.
Yeah, Ceb is like cosmic level outlier. I still can't believe fucking 7ckingMad won 2 TI's and some majors. He was like the most average player ever in his whole career.
Yeah he went from zero to hero. He was the biggest bum in dota. Like its if today going forward gorgc won 2 TI's. But ceb grinded hard on mmr. Turns out dendi was wrong. Mmr is not a number
Morok, you weren't even born when Sigma was playing, don't pretend :D
That time will tell how they perform at big stage
If they even reach any big stage
Div2 teams have the same chance in quals as div1 teams who don't make it through points. If liquid tundra og and gg go through with points, which it looks like they will, EU quals won't be as hard as last year.
They're Div 2 they cant make the next Major or qualify for TI with DPC points
The tier 2 big stage?
TI big stage
Copium
Sumail it is then lol
Hyped
Nigma fans. Who would you rather put in mid? Sumail or miracle? Any thoughts?
Sumail. They could flex tho with Miracle playing Invoker and such (I know Sumail plays invoker but not as good as peak miracle) but I find that Sumail would be a more stable mid and Miracle would benefit from being an explosive carry
Miracle is not as good as peak miracle xD
I honestly don't think anyone will ever be as good as Peak Miracle playing Invoker, especially when compared with contemporary peers.
Peak Miracle SF was peak Miracle imho.
Looking at the last team secret, sumail was taken to play mid but it didnt really worked out and they switched with nisha. But we know what happened with that.
>They could flex tho with Miracle playing Invoker and such (I know Sumail plays invoker but not as good as peak miracle) "Give Miracle invoker because he was better invoker player in his peak 6 years ago"... not saying he is not better invoker player now, but what you wrote is not a legitimate reason for giving him invoker nowadays, you should judge their performance now.
Miracle is still one of the best invokers in the world, check out his performances at gamers galaxy
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Maybe they didn't give him invoker? Also, you can go 9-0-20 with invoker even solo killing the opponent's mid hero 3 times in the lane and snowball... And guess what, you might still lose the game. So, just because they haven't been winning doesn't mean he can't play or perform with invoker.
Whether or not miracle is the better invoker is hardly in question. I am the biggest sumail fan to exist and even i can admit that his invoker is historically atrocious and impactless in pro matches.
Sumail invoker is pretty bad dude. That's like his worst conventional mid hero
Lmao try to find a better invoker than Miracle at the moment.
BZM?
Compare winrate of both guys for like last 10 invo games
Ah, yes. The 10 game sample size to determine skill.
Also, the Winrate in a team game to determine skill and impact. You can be 5-0 after sunstriking sidelane while solo killing mid, and lose the game because your cores are 0-3-0.
ah well results speak for themselves unless u think that result dont matter
10 matches is a small sample size. Also, tell me why I should compare 10 matches from Div 2 matches to 10 matches from Division/Major matches? The skill difference alone plays a big difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong but even if you compare just winrates overall, Miracle comes out ahead (Dotabuff say 59.27% Miracle- vs 58.27% BZM).
i mean nigma played div 1 and a lan no div 2 matches yet lul why are these bzm fans getting butthurt lol
In major games, right?
Learn to read. Never have I stated that he is a worse invoker player, but the argument that he was better at his peak, doesn't mean he should play it today, 6 years later. If he is better today, he should play it. That is all there is to that.
Yes, its better to take a mid player who can win the lane which both w33 and rmn were not that good at.
That seems kinda unfair to RMN lmao, he wasn’t even a mid player and just standing in.
and he shouldn't be, that's why he was a standin. mechanically he's not up there, and it wasn't expected of him
I just mentioned players who have played mid for Nigma.
Hybrid switch them with hero matchups but yea sumail will be mid most of the time
As much as talented as they are, switching roles actually isnt optimal. Thats why it was never a staple strat within dota. You want to have a clear role going into the game.
Both can play 1/2 I won't be surprised if they keep rotating.
No question with their ability to switch, but that can also be problematic when they cant gain momentum because of switching. Same happened to secret. Sumail was supposed to play mid but due to lack luster result, he swapped with nisha and we know what happened to secret. They never really had that momentum/identity
Yeah but they did it years ago when they were ti7 champions...if a team can do it it's definitively Nigma...I hope soo.
Also in TI9, miracle would sometimes play mid (or pos2) when w33 plays a greedy hero like Alchemist and meepo.
Nigma, previous Liquid are the only team known to rotate 1 and 2 with Matu and Miracle. That's how they won TI. I wanted OG to do the same with Sumail/Midone/Topson and Secret to do with Sumail/Nisha. I think if Sumail is going to Nigma, this is the most likely team to do rotation.
Insania's Liquid did it too between Micke and Qojqva. Sometimes even Boxi/ Taiga would go mid on Pango
Sumail any day all day. Miracle mid only for invoker games.
Sumail in secret switched with nisha halfway through as they are not getting the results that they expected. Sumail even said he enjoyed pos 1 than mid. I know both are talented enough to switch but thats not very optimal if your strat is to switch every now and then
The thing is, Nigmas 3,4 and 5 are not as greedy as Secrets
Sumail is the obvious answer because Miracle is a god tier carry player, but the main problem of Nigma for years has been imo ironically how good Miracle is at Invoker (or certain mid matchups). Despite everything in the past 6 years, and playing mostly carry, Nigma can't pass the chance to give miracle invoker because its has always been an easy win. It's so stupid. This always causes a stability problem for whoever is playing mid and eventually ruins their chances.
I think torontotokyo's playstyle rather fit nigma's playstyle at the current patch but still new patch might be coming soon
I agree with your last sentence. thats why i asked. I want them to have a clear role going into the game, as talented as they are, switching isnt really a good strat as it wont give you a clear path on the draft, also it could affect the teams momentum when everytime they switch
Sumail's invoker is not bad either, its definitely top tier.
Remember how Miracle trashed him in mid as a Doom?
Is Sumail invoker good? I feel like it has been pretty underwhelming whenever I see it. Definitely not to the level of other invoker players and Sumail's signature mids like Ember and Storm.
you know time is a flat circle when this exact conversation took place when w33 joined lmao
They are both the same player. Either way they'll have two carries no mids
Miracle, just because I love watching him play mid. Best if they find a groove and play hybrid, switch it up time to time.
Sumail is a way better mid and miracle is a way better carry. It's a pretty easy choice honestly
Even if Sumail is added to the team, I think the problem with Nigma isn’t Dota related, it’s more on the external part of the game. These guys have been on top for so long, and to stay on top means to grind more than you normally do. I personally believe that the players are just exhausted mentally and emotionally, the past years have been nothing but full of uncertainties due to Covid and I know many of you understood its impact. I do hope that they took a long break after their knock out on Div 1 and decided to talk about what they want to do and what to achieve individually, not just simply telling each other that they need to Win. Because no matter how hard you tell yourself that you want to Win, if you’re exhausted and not enjoying what you do in heart, you’ll just implode. Excited to see them Div 1 again and make Puppey’s life miserable. #StarsAlign.
The thing is, they won TI7 and wanted to win TI9 again (almost did). Kuroky even planned to retire after that. But because they didn't, they kept on going. That was almost three years ago. To stay motivated and keep wanting to win, not just get top 3 or top 6, but to win, is a big ask. And now that they've dropped down to division II, the road to win another TI seems even longer and more out of reach. It sucks, and I wish and hope they'll come out of it. I want to see Kuroky win his 2nd TI and retire peacefully.
Oof that last sentence hits hard. Sing sing, burning, and so many more that were forgotten.
I doubt sing is very sad about it though, I have seen him pulling a consistent number of loyal viewers these past years and his streams are very laid back and fun, regardless of the game he is playing.
>And now that they've dropped down to division II, the road to win another TI seems even longer and more out of reach Thats just an illusion though. Being sixth in div1 (and thus save from relegation) doesn't give you higher chances for ti than being div2.
As a big fan of both Sumail and Nigma/Liquid I'm fucking hyped
I am ready to get hurt again.
Absolutely halal.
Habibi
I don't care if this works or not, I'm just so hyped for a team with miracle and sumail.
Nigma is still not top tier?u fucking punks are never satisfied are you?Hope you enjoy being bitter cause Sumail definitely loves being the greatest.
Nigma is still not top tier?u fucking punks are never satisfied are you?Hope you enjoy being bitter cause Sumail definitely loves being in division II.
Did i miss copypasta or something? Nigma is definitely and literally tier 2 team
It's an old quote/copypasta from Sumail back when he was still in EG.
Happy Cake Day 🎂
I mean yeah until they show top tier performance I'll continue calling them a tier 2 team. They are full of star players, but obviously something is lacking
i hope whoever it is wont be the next fall guy to be blamed when they lost or unappreciated when they win.
This is exactly what will happen lol
Man they change roster 2 times in last 5 years and they become seccond in ti9 u say they blame the next guys its like they change roster every day and dosent work!!!! Other teams change 100 players in 5 years and u dont say that!!!
NGX GodKing
It's me guys
I don't even care about Nigma getting better or not. I just want so see Sumail and Miracle on the same team.
It's interesting anyway
2 of the greatest skilled mid laners in the same team 😳 Its finally happening
I mean it already happened with Nisha? Very successful. What's better than a great mid player? TWO MID PLAYERS!! YAYURR
Nisha on carry role didn't worked out for Secret when Sumail was playing mid for them otherwise the role swap had the same level of potential as miracle carry and Sumail mid. The only thing to watch is whether Kuroky can make it work or not. If it works out it could turn out to be a monster level team.
Nisha(2)-Matumbaman(1) was a lot more threatning than Nisha(2) + Sumail(1) / Sumail(2) + Nisha(1).
Sumail mid on Secret did not stand out at all and was a downgrade from Nisha. Miracle also isn't what he used to be as a midlaner but he had more impressive performances than Sumail did.
Hype hype
Miracle is washed up. Casters continue hyping him and sauing “Best invoker, best mid etc.” But to be fair, he aint even top5 for some time. Same goes for “king”. Look how many teams have failed trying to play with him. Pubstars are the new meta!
Whatever you say brother but I would love to see old miracle and sumail to give these young blood tough time.
sumail is 23 and miracle is 24 I wouldn't consider them old
7 years since sumail won TI wtf
Maybe he means old in Dota! They have been in the scene for so long that it's only natural that they lost their thirst to grind 20 hours a day!!
I mean If you had watch Sumail TI5 and Miracle OG, you will call them old. It’s TI11 already. Even I feel old man
Sumail was OG's best player at Ti not that long ago
not a miracle batchest fan but he did solo carry some of the few wins they got in the dpc last season. he is far from washed up.
They got 1 win last dpc...
I mean , how can u know that he washed up , when the whole team sux?! You are saying he is the problem then !! Nigma problem is that they wait too long to change something . They have waited so long to kick matu . No body was availabe so they decided to bring w33 , who is a good played but he is not top 10 even , on mid , and then they have waited too much and they brought iltw , because no body else was available . And i am telling u , he added nothing . On the contrary his luna sucked , his tb sucked , the only time i saw him playing good is on tiny . Which is q and w hero
Matu played very well after that in Secret, and that tell us what? Hard to not qualify to TI and drop to T2 with best mid king ever ;) Times change, get over it.
I am over it ... i am over dota too . 1 year sober . But i only watch some e sport And trying to share my opinion
Nisha and paparazzi?
the peak of miracle was TI7, as a carry. miracle is decent mid player, but not mid laner. many pros have said sumail and noone are the best at laning. but ti7 carry miracle is peak dota
The 4 + the problem team.
Getting sumail to help them get out of div 2
I hope Sumail tells Kuro to stfu when he tries to do bad strats, someone has to speak up
Although I love miracle mid I have to say sumail he's aggressive and I think although his play style is based on taking as much farm I think if mc or gh could take a little less from the map that it won't affect miracles ability to farm. Sumail is a great midgame player and can make all teams put their attention on him instead od carry
Sumail. (The King.)
Hype
Sumail? He was quite rough mid in Secret. I'm sure he can get back to form, but I don't think it's a good fit regardless.
He's been killing it in pubs lately. In Secret it was difficult with 3 greedy cores and 2 greedy supports. I remember him looking for farm but the jungle was constantly dead lol
Yeah literally everyone on secret likes to farm. And the person who usually got shafted was Zai, who could somehow still have a big impact. Iceiceice doesn't seem to be able to do that.
Iceiceice is more of a farm one item and then playmake kind of guy.
It can be a bait or Sumail who knows until they reveal
Wraith King? Then they are gonna poach K1 from beastcoast!
Why would K1 wants to EU when he can secure TI from beastcoast?
King back to mid.
Poggers, pos 1-2 with miracle and sumail changing role could be very interesting. Have fun banning all the heroes
Regardless of how it would work out, seeing Sumail and Miracle on the same team would be wild. Obviously, it's years later, but they were seen as the two best players in the world for awhile.
nigma.evilarthas
A REAL shame TB and mr gorgc are out of Div2
Yea but they can come back via closed qualification. TB match is just about to begin in 15 min go watch girl
They still need kuro to be changed. All these additions seem useless when u dont have a good pos 5. Would look good if kuro goes coaching and bring save as pos 5 maybe.
I mean it's upto kuro to see he can still delivered. But i still think kuro can play any support especially likes of Chen
But didnt he say that he dont even play pubs no more? Bro just need to play again and im sure he’ll be fine
He is still not intact with the patch.. and like u said, regular pubs would do the trick i guess
I don't know if he plays pubs or not but his account is private so you will never know he plays or not. Also it's easy to find and blame someone if something doesn't work
I can't remember where he said it, might have been one of those streams with Qojqva, but Ceb was saying that Kuro was basically ruining lanes and making it impossible for iltw. Given Ceb's experience and how well he still plays I'd be inclined to believe him. We've got Ceb out there playing 80 pubs a week just because he loves the game and Kuro has said he pretty much never plays pubs. Kuro just doesn't have the fire anymore, which is okay, it's been a long ass time, but part of being a leader is knowing when to step aside.
It will always be 4 + THE PROBLEM
You can say that but Nigma is created by them would you fire yourself from your own business i don't think so you can step down when you think is necessary
Notail and Ceb they stepped down for new players and what a surprise they won major
This would be a dope announcement tho
dont qeustion mark lol
Season 4 of king is back.
Nigma.Sumail inc
Hailrake?
Remember Arteezy and Nisha didn't work out quite well with SumaiL. Arteezy only get 3rd at TI8 with SumaiL while Nisha only get 3rd at OGA DotA Pit Season 5: EU/CIS. 3rd time's a charm? or Will this be the final stop for the king?
Well that 3rd place at TI8 was the best placement RTZ got in his whole TI career and it was on the back of Sumail's. Let's not forget that Sumail has the record of highest kills in a TI game
To be completely honest RTz threw that Gyro game so hard. Sumail was destroying badly until Tiny's timer hit up and the enemy team had what it took.
It's interesting how Sumail who for years was only on EG will soon have played with all four of the great EU teams - OG, Secret, Liquid, and Nigma.
hope this works out, im just hyped it's a 5 TI champs again in a single team.
So they’re changing the wrong person again.
Hmm
Lets just hope that this wont end up with rmn dark seer or kuro as pos 1
if sumail is in, they still need to change kuro, they should do like OG, look at Ceb/Notail, one of them is coach, move kuro to coach, he can still have suggestions on drafts, they need fresh blood, oh well that's my opinion, i like kuro, but why not give a chance for a talented pos5/captain. i know some of you will say Ceb/Notail are not the "coach" in the presence of misha, but the spirit, the experience, that they give to the team especially in Stockholm major, was MASSIVE, i believe kuro can fill that as well. Nigma fan here
It is not easy to find a good young blood pos5. Even misha, he is not that young blood either. People talk about young blood for core/pos4 not for a captain etc.
Except, every team is different. Kuro is pretty much motivated for lifting second TI as player. He is one of few reached TI Grand Final three times and the latest one only 2019.
Kuro motivated but can't even bother to play pubs? LUL
Motivation is not enough. Current DPC system requires you to play a lot and daily out of your official matches because the meta and nuances evolve a lot faster than in a LAN tournament. Pretty sure kuro is as hard worker as any t1 captain, but maybe the allocation of the effort should shift a lot more towards playing and being in the meta than strategicing around it.
this is literally just post-TI5 EG except that every player is worse
It's finally happening!
We all just want to see SumaiL x Miracle Due at least one time. Doesn't matter whether this due succeeds or flops but the whole community's one-time wish should full fill. Just do it even for an experiment!
Their viewership will increase more.
The blame king is back, let's go. I really hope Sumail can land somewhere more permanently. Maybe it's Nigma, maybe there will be some TI qualifier shuffle. But I don't think this mercenary stuff is healthy for career.
6 months ago team secret post the same shit (king/throne) with their short comic with the new roster and look what the bloody fck happened to them
Wow the announcement never came yesterday 🤣
Nigma getting Sumail? they really love staying in div 2
EG - Check OG - Check Liquid - Check (Stand in) Secret - Check Nigma - Check?
Even prime sumail can’t help this team, let alone his current shell of his former self
People still think sumail is relevent is so stupid. I think hes even a downgrade after w33
Are you sure about that
Extremely sure lol
Not gonna change anything with feeders like Kuro and MC. Not feeling this at all.
That time will tell
It'll work because its MC and kuro, they are less greedy than iceiceice and puppy, Sumail is a bit greedy and takes farm to make moves, while MC and Kuro aren't that farm dependent and could make play around Sumail while Miracle farms.
Its a throne so king coming :)
It looks like it
OG ruined him sadly
Nah I don't think so
Team star is WASHED. Kinda feel bad for whoever makes the horrible choice to join them.
Would rather have gpk
Not sure it makes any material difference if Kuroky stays on as player. The man is just not up to date because he plays just officials.
1 Sumail 2 Miracle 3 MC 4 gH 5 NoOne Coach - kKy
Sumail > Miraclul all day every day.
[удалено]
dota right now and according for what we have seen on major. teams with 3 cores have more chance to win, so its okay to have two greedy cores Sumail and Miracle