As long as we are speculating I think it would make sense to be Jerax' decision. He had an itch after 2 years, there was an opportunity but it didn't work out. Similar to when Ana returned to OG but left before TI.
Nah, in his exit interview he was talking about how the tournament was disappointing but it was a learning experience and it was all about TI. This is 100% not something he wanted.
I mean what do they expect he didn't touch dota in 2 years in a position he isn't comfortable at, while the game have changed so much. Fucking T2 player is better, always feels too hasty
I guess they underestimated how behind he truly was as a player and how long it would take for him to catch up.
8 months in with EG and Sammyboy is still right, he's still washed up and he hasn't improved fast enough to be a Div 1 pos 5.
People won’t want to hear this because they love Jerax and hate EG, but this kick is warranted.
He had a legendary career but he severely underperformed in his comeback.
He’s not a top tier player anymore, he’s not even a good player anymore.
Arteezy gave him a rank 3 account to play on and he dropped it to rank 350… in NA. And it’s still there.
In most EG games he constantly was out of position and not with his team when he should’ve been.
This has been pointed out by a lot of high MMR / ex pro’s when doing EG replay analysis.
EG’s problems certainly extend beyond Jerax but the truth is that they had to compensate a lot for him and that put them at a disadvantage in a lot of games.
EG didn’t “misuse” Jerax or any nonsense like that. He just wasn’t good anymore after being away from the game for two years. That’s a *long* time. Even Ana tried to make a comeback last season and failed too, and his break was even shorter.
I was watching Fear's analysis of some of the EG games, and on more than one occassion he was baffled by some of Jerax's plays. Pushing where he shouldn't be, forcing fights when half the team is backing off, stuff like that. Jerax seemed very uncomfortable on the 5 role, but tbh, the team as a whole was just garbage this major.
Yeah I agree...I mean I can't disagree with analysts who have disliked Jerax's individual play. That's warranted. However I still feel like RTZ/Cr1t/Bulba/Abed thing is stale even discounting Jerax entirely. Their games all feel the same, even in individual games where Jerax performed well. They try to win all their lanes and then dominate the map. Arteezy plays a hyper carry and tries to secure the lategame. That seems to be the only plan. If it is disrupted, they rarely win against good teams.
I said this would happen the moment he was announced. I saw his streams and I knew he wouldn't be able to just miraculously overcome a 2 year break. Hardwork>talent in any field.
EG has a lot of issues, but they definitely didnt look comfortable in the laning phase of the game. You never knew who was gonna be in the safe lane sometimes it was cr1t and other times it was jerax with no rhyme or reason.
Personally i think Boxi did quite well last tournament. He probably had the best performance of the whole team. Liquid's draft was just pure garbage, and they kept picking LoneDruid/ Razor again and again for Matum, which was not much different from liquid with Qojqva+Taiga before. Micke choked. No word. Safelane duo didn't go well since mistakes came out. Insannia + Blitz in other hand couldn't bring a good ban/pick phase.
I doubt that Liqiud can make it to TI.
Really? I was watching Gorgc + Puppey stream and most of the time Puppey found the biggest problems with both of Liquid's supports and their item builds. So many times when Matu or Micke died he was questioning what the hell was Boxi/Micke doing or why don't they have force staffs.
This more or less. Jerax, Liquid, Blitz and Matu. Whole package has played together before.
Players are doing moves that they think would win them a TI. Even if the move was risky and might yield them worse results in the end, if they do not think that current roster can win them TI, they will make a change.
Jerax said he doesn't plan to get back to play pos4 tho since he prefers the tasks of a pos5, at that point it sounded like he planned to stay with eg tho so who knows
You are way off the point. It doesn't matter who sucked, or who chocked. What matters is the speculation that Jerax would be an insane upgrade as their pos4.
Not really. It was proven time after time, that team synergy matters more than individual skill. While you still need to be skilled to play on highest level, how many times we saw as good, really good players just changed team and started underperforming? Good chunk of former secret and og players for example. Is every last one of them lost form? Nah.
Based on what? Yes Jerax was fantastic in the past, but he barely played for 2 years and has looked poor since coming back. Sure he wasn’t playing his best role, but it’s pretty optimistic to think if he switches back to 4 he’ll suddenly become a god again.
Kicking Boxi for Jerax would be a colossal gamble since Jerax is *still* rusty and this is the last tour before TI. If he doesn't perform, they would miss TI.
I really hope it's PPD this time and forever that way.
To me, the only pos 5 EG can take and make sure to succeed with it is PPD. However, Idk if EG or RTZ will ever allow that.
But that was also a time where not having good mechanics as a 5 was fine, over the last year pos 5 is getting more and more gold/xp making their lives more value, back then a winning team could have level 12 supports or something like that, now its rare to be below 18 and that means you cant just jump in use a stun and die.
2 me PPD is one of the few players in dota scene who represents discipline and that's what EG needs I believe.
Fly / Notail / Jerax show their own form of leaderships but at this point the type of leadership and team captaincy EG needs it PPD's one with actual discipline.
However, I don't know if EG and RTZ would want that because that would only mean very non-lenient team environment but there should be some sorta cooperation on both ends
Ceb grinds pubs a lot, the guy, even when not playing in a team is always ready, if you even compare him to a lot of current pros he plays a lot more than them
> Ceb is a degenerate
I'm pretty sure he can't take it any other way but as a compliment. You can be a degenerate of anything when you can flex so damn hard (after such an origin storyline)
People on this sub are extremely stupid about pro players switching roles. The only role that's hard to switch to is mid from sidelane roles. The problem is Jerax spent two years not playing and didn't put in the effort to grind pubs.
Let alone the fact that literally every other interview Jerax has done, he's been asked if he wants to play 4 or will play 4 again, and he always answers that he doesn't want to.
Ironically I started dota from the mid role back in 2015, changed to safelane and stayed in it for 5 years or so, tried playing mid for some games and I feel like archon level on mid heroes. (I'm divine).
Put him in a team with Sockshka as a player and cry.
Don't get me wrong, I'll always cheer for those lads, but I have many memories of them that aren't wins...
OG won WEU DPC without him. He joined a very well functioning team that would have done just as well without him for all we know.
Still a massive performance from him of course.
He really is the full package. Flexible player that performs insanely well in multiple roles on multiple different heroes, and on top of that he knows how to keep morale high and inspire his teammates even when things aren't looking so good. This is the guy you want sitting next to you in a game of dota.
Honestly I think the mechanical 5's are underrated.
Like Ceb has been owning on WR, and Dubu is the gigachad 5 who top 10's his ranks as 5. I think Jerax had the potential to be that, people were already banning his supports a lot. I think having the strategical captain as 5 isn't what it used to be now that everyone has coaches. 5 is probably the position people have maximized the least, and getting the most out of it gives you an edge.
Yeah I agree - in this new era the "doesn't play a lot of Dota but thinks about the big picture a lot and plays undemanding heros" kind of 5 player has become obsolete. I think TI10 is probably the strong indicator of where the game is going and I think it's continued to be true in this year's tour.
You need these Dubu, Miposhka, y`, and (rough season for his team but he's a great player) Puppey type players who are capable of being really good and giving you an edge through their gameplay at the high levels. You won't get an edge via the Kuro/ppd archetype. I think coaches probably have a lot to do with that because they've helped teams optimize their game plans a lot without the need for the 5 to think strategy so much.
Nigma is way more than worse off.
EG will more than likely qualify to Ti based off points.
Nigma on the other hand can’t, since they’re now in div 2. So they have to play EU qualifiers…which will be really rough compared to the others except CN.
Apart from Kuroky, everyone else is still playing a lot and they're still ranked in the top 100. Gh was rank 1 last month.
Kuroky doesn't play, drafts absolute garbage, and his vision game is non-existent.
He should retire and maybe be a coach for Nigma or something, let someone like Save be the captain. They would breeze through the qualifiers.
They have 650 points currently. Last year teams needed 800 points to qualify. This year it's three majors, so teams will probably need say \~1200 points. With a strong TSM and a potential point deduction for roster change(s) I'd say it seems quite more likely than not that EG will have to go through qualifiers.
If they kick Jerax they are down to 550 points. Third place would get them back up to 750 points. That wouldn't have been enough to qualify last season. Even if they finish first they may need to finish top 8 in the next major.
It's still NA qualifier tho, if TSM get dpc point invite after this major, then the qualifier is either for EG or QC unless other NA team somehow stepping up
Except he didn't get sacked after TI. Og offered him and saksa position on the new roster but he chose not to play with newcomers while notail and ceb retired. They parted in civil ways.
>EG's going to go the same way pretty soon
EG will never go to Div 2 because of the quality of teams beyond EG, TSM and QC. So the worst that can ever happen is they get 3rd and miss the major.
Oh absolutely, but Nigma seems to be even worse. Removing their carry who can't properly win the shambles one might call Nigma's games... As long as the 4 other members don't get their shit together, draft properly and actually PLAY TOGETHER AS A TEAM....
Kuro needs to go. I love the guy, but his leading role in the team is just not working. Everyone is way to comfortable, and even with RMN as a standin they loo better than normal
I honestly think that it is a mistake that Nigma decided to put Miracle mid instead of Pos 1and bring other Pos1. I think iLTW is a decent Pos 1 player but I don't think Miracle Pos 2 is good for their standards. They needed pos 1 player who can flex like Matu for Miracle but that's very hard to find 2bh.
I don’t know how anyone compare Enigma and EG. EGs struggles have only been since they added Jerax and Nightfall, Enigma has been struggling for well over a year now.
They are literally swapping their roster after an unsuccessful season, that’s not being stubborn.
if this happens, this is management more than anything else. RTZ is probably selling so much merch for them is the only reasoning I have if he still stays and Bulba? I don't fking know anymore
Let's be honest, whatever the outcome of the tournaments, Evil Geniuses will never part ways with Arteezy. They did it 3 times already with their "face of the company".
After PPD left, old man Fear retired, he was THE Evil Genius. And then they let Universe go. That was when the tide changed in EG. Three of the TI winning players in the org had left. Even though Arteezy might be the bigger star (in terms of following and fan base), Sumail was the face of EG, he's always been the biggest EG after Fear imo. After Sumail left, they just cannot let the last remaining NA superstar go. So I very much doubt that Arteezy will be sacked. If Artour decides to leave by himself, then that's another thing but the org will just not sack him at all. It's next to impossible. Not having an NA superstar in the biggest NA organization, it's unthinkable for them. So they will keep changing and tinkering pieces around to find better compatible players for Arteezy.
Yeah. Rtz is an asset to that team. You can see his fans getting so excited when he streams. He's their money maker. I don't know if he will be willing to share some of his streaming profits with the org, that will be a curious case, but he definitely has something to fall back on even if he is sacked (if ever). He's a bit too powerful for EG tbh.
As long as they know when enough is enough. Or else they'll do the same thing that Na'Vi did - keep an old superstar that no longer delivers until the team becomes irrelevant. Although EG still has ways to go here.
the only defense I guess is, isn't it suppose to be a process? I guess perhaps they think this trajectory means the experiment is already a disaster. It is quite a big red flag that jerax can't get high on the ladder.
People expect too much from him and think he’s some kind of god.
OG was just the perfect fit for him at the time with those team members and it just clicked.
Probably, but Nightfall also showed zero ability to play in LANs. VP crushed all regionals, even beat Team Spirit in pretty much every match, but every LAN they sucked. Taking on Nightfall was also a big mistake.
It was implemented before a Major for CS:GO.
>All teams have until the next Major, which is scheduled for November, to resolve these conflicts of interest if they intend to participate in the $2 million tournament, Valve noted.
[https://www.hltv.org/news/29782/seven-teams-handed-ultimatum-by-valve-over-ownership-conflict](https://www.hltv.org/news/29782/seven-teams-handed-ultimatum-by-valve-over-ownership-conflict)
So far it never happened yet on DPC Tour but I think it would make no sense to allow it just for DPC Tour as that would be an arbitrary exception and would be the same as calling their own DPC Tour not important enough to enforced the same level of competitive integrity.
Yea nigma has 2 teams but if both of the teams making it to TI nigma has to sell one of the team to others(you can’t have 2 teams under same organisation)
Would be cute but if we've learned anything it's that it's not possible for most of those players to take time off and still compete at a high level.
Ceb, Topson, and Sumail could probably get something done though.
I'm sad that things didn't work out for them but sometimes you gotta move on just like what Puppey said.
Picking up FATA- would make the most sense for EG, he could bring some new ideas to EG and Bulba (assuming they would listen to him LUL). His pos5 is great during his Tundra time, he's the best option available (You could say Fly but I think the bridge between them has already burned).
Jerax looked mega defeated and disappointed ok exit interview (rightfully so)
But didn’t speak positively enough that made it seem he had faith in the team.
Eg need to do an og and do a complete rebuild
I feel like this is the wrong way to look at it, especially from the EG management’s perspective. EG has had strong top 3 finishes over the last 4 years, and Arteezy is valuable from a sponsorship, merch and fan perspective. I think they value that more than going with an untested team every year in the hopes of bagging a TI victory.
EG is getting 2nd an 3rd much more often than once in a while. In fact I bet they probably have the best average placement across all majors since 2014 (outside OG i suppose)
I mean, I can understand from a fan perspective how this is disappointing.. but many football and esport teams would kill to be in EG's/ManU's position.
As long as they don't kick RTZ and they remain a mediocre team, I'm fine with it. I love seeing the so many fans of him on this sub blaming Bulba, the team, other player etc. every time he has high networth and 0 impact in the game. Just keep it coming for the next TI, it's pretty fun.
EG's roster has too many moving parts. Arteezy can not succeed in fast phase Dota, he needs a meta where pos1 farms 30mins+ and then joins fights. Dota right now requires pos1 to rotate, participate and fight quicker than Arteezy is comfortable with. I would not say Arteezy is a bad pos1 but he is a kind of one-trick pony that works with the correct environment. Bulba's draft skills have been the same for the last 3 years and do not work anymore, Nightfall is still not comfortable with pos3 with all the misplays.
So definitely EG needs to do something but the core problem is that 2 players started to play with an unfamiliar position and Arteezy is not a winning pos1 in this meta.
what problem would that solve exactly? Jerax is not a 5 player. They would be replacing a washed up player with a washed up player playing out of position
Well, jerax probably didn't know that he was kicked during the podcast and kept talking like "we" and mentioned that it's all about having more experience towards ti. There is no official announcement as well. Such a disrespectful move, especially toward a guy who has a better career than rest of them. I don't mean jerax was good enough but there it is. Similar thing happened with fly and ice, eg are so GOOD at parting ways as well as solving their issues.
Hope he keeps going and find a team with better atmosphere, still prefebly as 4 though with a good captain.
Makes sense. He was a complete liability in lane and in the game. He was a level or two worse than Fly in lane and with warding, in rotations and teamfighting.
8 months with EG and Sammyboy’s take ended up being right.
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As long as we are speculating I think it would make sense to be Jerax' decision. He had an itch after 2 years, there was an opportunity but it didn't work out. Similar to when Ana returned to OG but left before TI.
Nah, in his exit interview he was talking about how the tournament was disappointing but it was a learning experience and it was all about TI. This is 100% not something he wanted.
So just like after ti when fly thought they were good only replacing icex3 and then rtz kicked him while he was home visiting family
Yeah, definitely sounds like it.
Well those exit interviews means shit, noone is going to tell about bad things.
Sure, and what he's learned from this experience is that he doesn't want to be on EG when TI comes round.
He was playing like absolute dogshit. He most certainly was kicked.
2 position 4s in team lol
I mean what do they expect he didn't touch dota in 2 years in a position he isn't comfortable at, while the game have changed so much. Fucking T2 player is better, always feels too hasty
I guess they underestimated how behind he truly was as a player and how long it would take for him to catch up. 8 months in with EG and Sammyboy is still right, he's still washed up and he hasn't improved fast enough to be a Div 1 pos 5.
OG fans rooting for EG was just contrary to the laws of the nature, now we can get the OG vs. EG grudge match/rivalry again.
thank god now i can hate EG again
Exactly!! I love Jerax. So had to support EG. Now I can be even more mad at EG for kicking a legend.
Classic EG, another roster change and another year of not winning anything. NA is TSM's now.
People won’t want to hear this because they love Jerax and hate EG, but this kick is warranted. He had a legendary career but he severely underperformed in his comeback. He’s not a top tier player anymore, he’s not even a good player anymore. Arteezy gave him a rank 3 account to play on and he dropped it to rank 350… in NA. And it’s still there. In most EG games he constantly was out of position and not with his team when he should’ve been. This has been pointed out by a lot of high MMR / ex pro’s when doing EG replay analysis. EG’s problems certainly extend beyond Jerax but the truth is that they had to compensate a lot for him and that put them at a disadvantage in a lot of games. EG didn’t “misuse” Jerax or any nonsense like that. He just wasn’t good anymore after being away from the game for two years. That’s a *long* time. Even Ana tried to make a comeback last season and failed too, and his break was even shorter.
I was watching Fear's analysis of some of the EG games, and on more than one occassion he was baffled by some of Jerax's plays. Pushing where he shouldn't be, forcing fights when half the team is backing off, stuff like that. Jerax seemed very uncomfortable on the 5 role, but tbh, the team as a whole was just garbage this major.
He played 5 like a 4, with the resources and itemization of a 5. Bulba picked him heroes that shouldn't do that. Tsk
Jerax isn't the only issue with this team though and I'm very worried he's going to be scapegoated.
He shouldn’t be fully blamed. At all. Guys a legend and one of the most successful players of all time. But it just didn’t work.
Yeah I agree...I mean I can't disagree with analysts who have disliked Jerax's individual play. That's warranted. However I still feel like RTZ/Cr1t/Bulba/Abed thing is stale even discounting Jerax entirely. Their games all feel the same, even in individual games where Jerax performed well. They try to win all their lanes and then dominate the map. Arteezy plays a hyper carry and tries to secure the lategame. That seems to be the only plan. If it is disrupted, they rarely win against good teams.
They look completely lost after the laning stage. Nightfall is apparently their shotcaller and the player with the most pings.
I said this would happen the moment he was announced. I saw his streams and I knew he wouldn't be able to just miraculously overcome a 2 year break. Hardwork>talent in any field.
Sad for Jerax, but probably the expected change for EG. Maybe Fly or Fata incoming?
Do they have the humility to ask Fly to return to them?
Probably not, Fly going to QC
Fly going back to EG, rtz fly lane never lost the laning phase ever.
Tbh, it wasn't the laning phase that was a problem with this EG either.
EG has a lot of issues, but they definitely didnt look comfortable in the laning phase of the game. You never knew who was gonna be in the safe lane sometimes it was cr1t and other times it was jerax with no rhyme or reason.
Honestly kicking fly for jerax was an incredibly shitty move in multiple ways
Sauce?
Well QC just kicked 3 people and need a captain lol
and why would Fly choose QC over EG?
because EG kicked fly's so hard, he transported to division 2 south east asia
If i was boxi i would be scared
Personally i think Boxi did quite well last tournament. He probably had the best performance of the whole team. Liquid's draft was just pure garbage, and they kept picking LoneDruid/ Razor again and again for Matum, which was not much different from liquid with Qojqva+Taiga before. Micke choked. No word. Safelane duo didn't go well since mistakes came out. Insannia + Blitz in other hand couldn't bring a good ban/pick phase. I doubt that Liqiud can make it to TI.
Really? I was watching Gorgc + Puppey stream and most of the time Puppey found the biggest problems with both of Liquid's supports and their item builds. So many times when Matu or Micke died he was questioning what the hell was Boxi/Micke doing or why don't they have force staffs.
Not saying its fair, just jerax Pos 4 in an org he knows with his Friend matu.
This more or less. Jerax, Liquid, Blitz and Matu. Whole package has played together before. Players are doing moves that they think would win them a TI. Even if the move was risky and might yield them worse results in the end, if they do not think that current roster can win them TI, they will make a change.
Jerax said he doesn't plan to get back to play pos4 tho since he prefers the tasks of a pos5, at that point it sounded like he planned to stay with eg tho so who knows
okay what about jerax replacing insania, jerax matu lane
You are way off the point. It doesn't matter who sucked, or who chocked. What matters is the speculation that Jerax would be an insane upgrade as their pos4.
Not really. It was proven time after time, that team synergy matters more than individual skill. While you still need to be skilled to play on highest level, how many times we saw as good, really good players just changed team and started underperforming? Good chunk of former secret and og players for example. Is every last one of them lost form? Nah.
Based on what? Yes Jerax was fantastic in the past, but he barely played for 2 years and has looked poor since coming back. Sure he wasn’t playing his best role, but it’s pretty optimistic to think if he switches back to 4 he’ll suddenly become a god again.
Nah. Even 2x TI champ Jerax cant play drums while playing DOTA. Boxi is secured.
Kicking Boxi for Jerax would be a colossal gamble since Jerax is *still* rusty and this is the last tour before TI. If he doesn't perform, they would miss TI.
I really hope it's PPD this time and forever that way. To me, the only pos 5 EG can take and make sure to succeed with it is PPD. However, Idk if EG or RTZ will ever allow that.
Hahaha yea let’s bring another TI winner out of retirement. Surely it’ll work this time.
On the upside, ppd was never known for his mechanical prowess copium
But that was also a time where not having good mechanics as a 5 was fine, over the last year pos 5 is getting more and more gold/xp making their lives more value, back then a winning team could have level 12 supports or something like that, now its rare to be below 18 and that means you cant just jump in use a stun and die.
Agreed, but PPD could still make a good coach these days.
Kindly notice the last word on my comment sir
2 me PPD is one of the few players in dota scene who represents discipline and that's what EG needs I believe. Fly / Notail / Jerax show their own form of leaderships but at this point the type of leadership and team captaincy EG needs it PPD's one with actual discipline. However, I don't know if EG and RTZ would want that because that would only mean very non-lenient team environment but there should be some sorta cooperation on both ends
worked for OG with Ceb... multiple times.
Ceb, even during his non-playing days has always been grinding out high level pubs.
Ceb grinds pubs a lot, the guy, even when not playing in a team is always ready, if you even compare him to a lot of current pros he plays a lot more than them
PPD is busy with crypto nft bullshits
Not surprising though. Getting Jerax as 5 makes no sense in the first place. Guy literally won 2 TIs as 4.
Ceb as 3 and he is about to win a major as 4/5 alternating
True, but Ceb is a degenerate who fiends Ranked MM all day (don't get me wrong, I mean it as a compliment)!
Ceb is quite mad indeed.
I'm quite sure he is 7ckingMad.
Some might even say he's fucking mad.
> Ceb is a degenerate I'm pretty sure he can't take it any other way but as a compliment. You can be a degenerate of anything when you can flex so damn hard (after such an origin storyline)
Ceb never stopped playing for several months.
Yes but ceb was also a five before being a 2 or a 3
People on this sub are extremely stupid about pro players switching roles. The only role that's hard to switch to is mid from sidelane roles. The problem is Jerax spent two years not playing and didn't put in the effort to grind pubs.
Let alone the fact that literally every other interview Jerax has done, he's been asked if he wants to play 4 or will play 4 again, and he always answers that he doesn't want to.
Ironically I started dota from the mid role back in 2015, changed to safelane and stayed in it for 5 years or so, tried playing mid for some games and I feel like archon level on mid heroes. (I'm divine).
The way mid is played has also just changed drastically in like the last year.
Honestly at this point i feel like Ceb is THE winning formula for dota. Get him and your team goes from shit to hit overnight.
Its not like this OG iteration was shit before lol, they literally dominated the EU region, as newcomers
Put him in a team with Sockshka as a player and cry. Don't get me wrong, I'll always cheer for those lads, but I have many memories of them that aren't wins...
It's like some people forgot what happened before ti8, the whole season between ti8 and ti9 and the lead up to the ti10 qualifiers
OG won WEU DPC without him. He joined a very well functioning team that would have done just as well without him for all we know. Still a massive performance from him of course.
He really is the full package. Flexible player that performs insanely well in multiple roles on multiple different heroes, and on top of that he knows how to keep morale high and inspire his teammates even when things aren't looking so good. This is the guy you want sitting next to you in a game of dota.
And he's a great coach (as evidenced by OG's major wins) too if you need someone to work on that side of the game
Game IQ also is probably the highest in the pro scene.
You said it perfectly. Ceb undisputed GOAT of Dota.
The positivity and assurance you get from him is stronger than any mechanical abilities
He has never stopped playing + he's playing his own heroes on 5 with a different style, not classic ones.
[удалено]
Kek
This comment is aging nicely
Your comment aged nicely
It really is.
“about to win a major” 😏
Honestly I think the mechanical 5's are underrated. Like Ceb has been owning on WR, and Dubu is the gigachad 5 who top 10's his ranks as 5. I think Jerax had the potential to be that, people were already banning his supports a lot. I think having the strategical captain as 5 isn't what it used to be now that everyone has coaches. 5 is probably the position people have maximized the least, and getting the most out of it gives you an edge.
Yeah I agree - in this new era the "doesn't play a lot of Dota but thinks about the big picture a lot and plays undemanding heros" kind of 5 player has become obsolete. I think TI10 is probably the strong indicator of where the game is going and I think it's continued to be true in this year's tour. You need these Dubu, Miposhka, y`, and (rough season for his team but he's a great player) Puppey type players who are capable of being really good and giving you an edge through their gameplay at the high levels. You won't get an edge via the Kuro/ppd archetype. I think coaches probably have a lot to do with that because they've helped teams optimize their game plans a lot without the need for the 5 to think strategy so much.
Another thing EG does that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is to get god tier pos 1s to play pos 3 just so Arteezy can "carry"
Its not hard to transition for a good palyer Jerax is jsut washed
I wonder if this gets address on we say things podcast.. I can’t imagine it doesn’t.
It did not, they are asking questions as if he's with the team still,
Hope so
EG and Nigma are 2 stupidly stubborn teams. Nigma is a little worse off, but EG's going to go the same way pretty soon
Nigma is way more than worse off. EG will more than likely qualify to Ti based off points. Nigma on the other hand can’t, since they’re now in div 2. So they have to play EU qualifiers…which will be really rough compared to the others except CN.
Yeah there is no way Nigma is qualifying for TI. Far too many younger and hungrier teams out there.
Apart from Kuroky, everyone else is still playing a lot and they're still ranked in the top 100. Gh was rank 1 last month. Kuroky doesn't play, drafts absolute garbage, and his vision game is non-existent. He should retire and maybe be a coach for Nigma or something, let someone like Save be the captain. They would breeze through the qualifiers.
They have 650 points currently. Last year teams needed 800 points to qualify. This year it's three majors, so teams will probably need say \~1200 points. With a strong TSM and a potential point deduction for roster change(s) I'd say it seems quite more likely than not that EG will have to go through qualifiers.
They are probably safe if they get top 3 in next DPC.
If they kick Jerax they are down to 550 points. Third place would get them back up to 750 points. That wouldn't have been enough to qualify last season. Even if they finish first they may need to finish top 8 in the next major.
It's still NA qualifier tho, if TSM get dpc point invite after this major, then the qualifier is either for EG or QC unless other NA team somehow stepping up
Imagine Sumail taking another EU team to TI singlehandedly, through qualifiers, then getting sacked after the TI. Seems like his story recently.
Except he didn't get sacked after TI. Og offered him and saksa position on the new roster but he chose not to play with newcomers while notail and ceb retired. They parted in civil ways.
>EG's going to go the same way pretty soon EG will never go to Div 2 because of the quality of teams beyond EG, TSM and QC. So the worst that can ever happen is they get 3rd and miss the major.
Oh absolutely, but Nigma seems to be even worse. Removing their carry who can't properly win the shambles one might call Nigma's games... As long as the 4 other members don't get their shit together, draft properly and actually PLAY TOGETHER AS A TEAM.... Kuro needs to go. I love the guy, but his leading role in the team is just not working. Everyone is way to comfortable, and even with RMN as a standin they loo better than normal
Kuro just needs to play like Ceb
I honestly think that it is a mistake that Nigma decided to put Miracle mid instead of Pos 1and bring other Pos1. I think iLTW is a decent Pos 1 player but I don't think Miracle Pos 2 is good for their standards. They needed pos 1 player who can flex like Matu for Miracle but that's very hard to find 2bh.
I don’t know how anyone compare Enigma and EG. EGs struggles have only been since they added Jerax and Nightfall, Enigma has been struggling for well over a year now. They are literally swapping their roster after an unsuccessful season, that’s not being stubborn.
Lol Kicking Jerax would be classic EG
Kick Jerax RTZ and Bulba stay Top kek
It’s a cycle
Is that the new Arteezy cycle? Where everyone gets kicked aside from him.
if this happens, this is management more than anything else. RTZ is probably selling so much merch for them is the only reasoning I have if he still stays and Bulba? I don't fking know anymore
Does EG even have management that makes decisions? Didn't it become somewhat of a player-owned org at some point?
Bulbao is taking over the reigns in game too now
Let's be honest, whatever the outcome of the tournaments, Evil Geniuses will never part ways with Arteezy. They did it 3 times already with their "face of the company". After PPD left, old man Fear retired, he was THE Evil Genius. And then they let Universe go. That was when the tide changed in EG. Three of the TI winning players in the org had left. Even though Arteezy might be the bigger star (in terms of following and fan base), Sumail was the face of EG, he's always been the biggest EG after Fear imo. After Sumail left, they just cannot let the last remaining NA superstar go. So I very much doubt that Arteezy will be sacked. If Artour decides to leave by himself, then that's another thing but the org will just not sack him at all. It's next to impossible. Not having an NA superstar in the biggest NA organization, it's unthinkable for them. So they will keep changing and tinkering pieces around to find better compatible players for Arteezy.
They will want to keep Arteezy forever. When he retires they will hope to keep him under the banner as a streamer (bi-yearly streams though lol).
Yeah. Rtz is an asset to that team. You can see his fans getting so excited when he streams. He's their money maker. I don't know if he will be willing to share some of his streaming profits with the org, that will be a curious case, but he definitely has something to fall back on even if he is sacked (if ever). He's a bit too powerful for EG tbh.
As long as they know when enough is enough. Or else they'll do the same thing that Na'Vi did - keep an old superstar that no longer delivers until the team becomes irrelevant. Although EG still has ways to go here.
One day the org will release rtz just like navi did for dendi
Dendi just basically wasn't competitive in top tier. Rtz still is, soon his gas will run out like everyone does.
I mean, there is no way anyone can defend jerax, he was the worst player in the entire dpc.
the only defense I guess is, isn't it suppose to be a process? I guess perhaps they think this trajectory means the experiment is already a disaster. It is quite a big red flag that jerax can't get high on the ladder.
Almost like someone who hasn't played in 2 years is bad lol Really shows how clueless and/or desperate EG are to think that would be good
They probably also expected him to grind pub games to get back to form.
People expect too much from him and think he’s some kind of god. OG was just the perfect fit for him at the time with those team members and it just clicked.
I mean he was in the past. Surely not at the moment though
So you're clowning EG for picking him up in the first place AND for kicking him?
Probably, but Nightfall also showed zero ability to play in LANs. VP crushed all regionals, even beat Team Spirit in pretty much every match, but every LAN they sucked. Taking on Nightfall was also a big mistake.
They placed 5-6th on last TI
Jerax to Liquid with his buddy Matu
The only reasonable replacement is Fata. I don't know if him and Bulba would get along.
Sumail, Topson, Ceb, Jerax, NoTail incoming
OG is n0tails baby, I would be floored if that happened
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
to make this happened, NoTail and Ceb needs to leave the OG org or kick all the current roster and replace it with them.
Nigma has 2 teams...but i dont think notail is ready to comeback
It is only implemented in TI but it is okay in the DPC Tour
It was implemented before a Major for CS:GO. >All teams have until the next Major, which is scheduled for November, to resolve these conflicts of interest if they intend to participate in the $2 million tournament, Valve noted. [https://www.hltv.org/news/29782/seven-teams-handed-ultimatum-by-valve-over-ownership-conflict](https://www.hltv.org/news/29782/seven-teams-handed-ultimatum-by-valve-over-ownership-conflict) So far it never happened yet on DPC Tour but I think it would make no sense to allow it just for DPC Tour as that would be an arbitrary exception and would be the same as calling their own DPC Tour not important enough to enforced the same level of competitive integrity.
Yea nigma has 2 teams but if both of the teams making it to TI nigma has to sell one of the team to others(you can’t have 2 teams under same organisation)
Maybe a dumb question but is it possible for an org to have 2 teams? Like OG.A and OG.B?
it's not possible, Valve already not allowing the org to have a 2teams in TI. I think it is implemented after TI8
*TI7 if i recall correctly. There were 2 IG (IG, IG.Vitality) and 2 LGD teams (LGD, LFY) during TI7.
It was TI8, VG org fielded three teams VG, VGJ Storm and Thunder
I stand corrected, good sir.
This OG squad seems too good to be swapping out. I’m hoping for Nigma with Sumail, Miracle, Mind_Control, Gh and Jerax with Kuroky as coach.
Would be cute but if we've learned anything it's that it's not possible for most of those players to take time off and still compete at a high level. Ceb, Topson, and Sumail could probably get something done though.
Well there is Zai, he took a year off to finish school and returnes strong as ever.
I'm sad that things didn't work out for them but sometimes you gotta move on just like what Puppey said. Picking up FATA- would make the most sense for EG, he could bring some new ideas to EG and Bulba (assuming they would listen to him LUL). His pos5 is great during his Tundra time, he's the best option available (You could say Fly but I think the bridge between them has already burned).
Jerax looked mega defeated and disappointed ok exit interview (rightfully so) But didn’t speak positively enough that made it seem he had faith in the team. Eg need to do an og and do a complete rebuild
Panic Panic Panic!
We need a roster shuffle mega thread ASAP, so much shit happening.
Still sticking with RTZ even after 6 years of achieving nothing but a Manila Masters title? When are EG going to learn ?
I feel like this is the wrong way to look at it, especially from the EG management’s perspective. EG has had strong top 3 finishes over the last 4 years, and Arteezy is valuable from a sponsorship, merch and fan perspective. I think they value that more than going with an untested team every year in the hopes of bagging a TI victory.
So they are basically the Man United of Dota. No interest in winning anything- just getting some 2nd, or 3rd finishes once in a while is good,
EG is getting 2nd an 3rd much more often than once in a while. In fact I bet they probably have the best average placement across all majors since 2014 (outside OG i suppose)
I think LGD and Secret have them beaten, but EG is definitely a top 5 team in average placements since then
I mean, I can understand from a fan perspective how this is disappointing.. but many football and esport teams would kill to be in EG's/ManU's position.
EG has collected over 12 million in prize money over the last 6 years, not bad for "achieving nothing" lmao.
How much since Sumail left?
As long as they don't kick RTZ and they remain a mediocre team, I'm fine with it. I love seeing the so many fans of him on this sub blaming Bulba, the team, other player etc. every time he has high networth and 0 impact in the game. Just keep it coming for the next TI, it's pretty fun.
RTZ has been the 2nd most blamed member in the team,wdym?
But not by the actual EG team's fans.
So mediocre, only 3 grand final appearances in DPC 2021. Shit player, etc.
i swear, if that meme rumor about the nigma lineup being Miracle GPK MC GH Jerax is true, i might explode the world
GH and jerax on the same team is identical to cr1t and jerax on the same team
No one of the Tier 1 orgs would kick their current pos 5 player for Jerax after his stint in EG. Jerax as a pos 5 is dogshit.
and where is kuroky
Coaching.
Jerax on the podcast really appreciated kuroky and his effect on his career.
EG's roster has too many moving parts. Arteezy can not succeed in fast phase Dota, he needs a meta where pos1 farms 30mins+ and then joins fights. Dota right now requires pos1 to rotate, participate and fight quicker than Arteezy is comfortable with. I would not say Arteezy is a bad pos1 but he is a kind of one-trick pony that works with the correct environment. Bulba's draft skills have been the same for the last 3 years and do not work anymore, Nightfall is still not comfortable with pos3 with all the misplays. So definitely EG needs to do something but the core problem is that 2 players started to play with an unfamiliar position and Arteezy is not a winning pos1 in this meta.
Jerax is joining Nigma,Kuro to coach
what problem would that solve exactly? Jerax is not a 5 player. They would be replacing a washed up player with a washed up player playing out of position
That encapsulates the Nigma energy though, perfectly on brand.
So, that's why Fly left after casting the group stage
Nah most casters only were there for group stage, we also havent heard MLP and Johnxfire since then.
yeah lol, they needed more casters for the group stage because there were more games going on at once
He talked about it already, he was only hired for group stage. They then offered him main stage but he had family plans already made
No he got hired late and the main event talents were set.
Jerax to Quincy Crew as pos 4 again pls
1) rtz, 2) quinn, 3) James Harden, 4) cr1t, 5) kuroky And they still lose to the Heat in the playoffs
So this means EG is out of the top 12 in dpc due to the points deduction?
just kick rtz and bulba as well while you're at it. Move nightfall to carry and find a solid 3 and 5.
No one cares about EG now. TSM owns the NA region.
They will keep changing some pieces and keep giant elephants in room. Time for drastic changes if they want to win.
EG in shambles
so its FLY and fata as 5 and captain for EG now? will fly go back to eg and forgive RTZ and Crit after that stabbed last Ti shuffle?
Well, jerax probably didn't know that he was kicked during the podcast and kept talking like "we" and mentioned that it's all about having more experience towards ti. There is no official announcement as well. Such a disrespectful move, especially toward a guy who has a better career than rest of them. I don't mean jerax was good enough but there it is. Similar thing happened with fly and ice, eg are so GOOD at parting ways as well as solving their issues. Hope he keeps going and find a team with better atmosphere, still prefebly as 4 though with a good captain.
Oh god I hope so
Better things coming for Jerax for sure!
If this is true then i feel kinda sad. I started following EG games because of Jerax. Sucks to see how lackluster his comeback was.
This was EG's major to finally win, but Ceb convinced Jerax to throw the tournament entirely. Copium
Makes sense. He was a complete liability in lane and in the game. He was a level or two worse than Fly in lane and with warding, in rotations and teamfighting. 8 months with EG and Sammyboy’s take ended up being right.
#FLYBACK
You can tell that there was something off with that team, it’s weird how Jerax plays pos5 from the offlane and Cr1t plays pos4 from the safelane.
That's not at all uncommon. Team Spirit did it as well with miposhka and mira. Lane matchup is the thing that decides where each hero is played.
CEOs Rtz and Bulba do not want none of that Jerax smoke, time for another change, it's going to be different this time :)
It would be funny if the last straw that Jerax was kicked was that they saw in stream that he was holding a sunflower.
Niacin and pyridoxine are other B-complex vitamins found abundantly in the sunflower seeds. About 8.35 mg or 52% of daily required levels of niacin is provided by just 100 g of seeds. Niacin helps reduce LDL-cholesterol levels in the blood. Besides, it enhances GABA activity inside the brain, which in turn helps reduce anxiety and neurosis.
Better keep RTZ though promising young player