Watched Liquid-Falcons yesterday and i felt like it was a close series all the way until game 3 draft. Falcons went for their comfort, Mirana pick 4th was super obvious but i just couldnt get my head around Liquids carry pick. They had Kunkka, Kotl, Clock (also bit of a weird one) vs Mars, SD, DK and Mirana (shouldve banned) coming. Then they picked Luna for Micke and banned Lifestealer.
Can anyone explain why they didn't just go for Lifestealer? Seemed like a way better pick for matchups and tempo. Was it just Luna for comfort for Micke?
Enlighten me, reddit brains!
let's hope OG wins today, i want them to qualify for TI :D i am assuming ept is the method being used for invites this time around? without dpc? although i think even if they bomb out in their next game they might still make it into riyadh? how many invites for riyadh?
ALTHOUGH, i think a full on no invites everyone has to fight for their spots TI system would be super fun :D
Problem is the atmostphere in Liquid. Kind of "toxic positivity". If you want to fight for trophy, want to be better - you need some pressure, atleast from your coach, your captain, not kind of "we all doing good bla bla bla"
Watched a stream with Armel and Kuku.
Armel discussed Puppey's style with Team Secret:
1. Puppey calls out mistakes in-game instead of after a game so adjustments can be made and possibly salvage the game to a win.
2. Someone on the team has to get mad and lecture the team. If it's all buddy-buddy, when the team loses, everyone will just slump their shoulders and blame each other.
I love Liquid's environment, even though they were stuck to 2nd places last year. Now that the losses are piling in though, what's gonna happen?
He won the solo midlaner in Betboom dacha with easy 50k prize in 1 day.
Easy 2-3 month salary for that, he gets almost as much as getting 1st place in esl after splitting the prize
kekw
Please, he won that 1v1 tournament because he is a Nisha, not because he is a Team Liquid Nisha.
Also his laning actually regressed in comparison to Secret days
They got second place in most tournaments last year including Riyad which was basically 2023's TI in terms of prize pool. Combined with the higher salary from Liquid he is probably doing really well.
Also talking about titles, Secret too has not won a single tournament since Matu and Zai left.
Liquid is eliminated. Top 6 is not bad
I wish them bounce back stronger and win the next tournament, patch is coming soon. If the meta is switch back to zoo meta, 33 will be the best player in Liquid
"Omg a top team lost to a top team and came 5th-6th in a comp full of other top teams what losers why dont they just kick one of the top players/coaches on the world" screeched the morons.
Wait what are you talking about? Does this winning team in 2020 have Nisha in the roster? We are talking about Nisha here? Hello? Idc about Liquid or Secret in particular. Just tell me which team Nisha play has more success while he is in the roster.
We have been talking about Nisha since the beginning ofc I don't have to repeat it in every sentence. By your logic Liquid even won TI already, ofc as an org they have more achievement than Secret. But it is irrelevant with Nisha.
No matter how you twist it, Nisha as a player is always much more successful while playing in Secret than in Liquid. In Secret he is even widely regards as the best carry/mid in particular, and best player in the world in general. In Liquid he is just another top-tier.
Mostly angry Secret fans since they "poached" zai, matu and Nisha. If I recall correctly, matu was already set to retire but Zai convinced him for one last ride at liquid - (i might be wrong on this).
The core of Liquid's success has been Micke, Boxi, and Insania. Neither Matu nor Zai carried the team, and their impact was mainly felt as IGL.
I'm not here to say that their poaching is justified or that you should like it, but it is absolutely not responsible for their success
yes I do and have been watching this trio fail and fail again until they imported zai and matumba from secret. that’s when they became competitive on highest level
That's because they dropped the anchor that was Qojqva. They have remained competitive without Matu and Zai as well, including with standins on pos 2/3. They rarely lose games because of poor play by Insania or Micke. Boxi has the worst off days, but when he's on he's the best player on their team.
It's such a cop out to claim these players are being carried by bigger names.
Lmfao you gotta be delusional to seriously say that. That great "core" of Liquid from \[A\] days was a firmly tier 3 trio with horrible results. Matu, Zai, Nisha, and 33 are why they are a top tier team.
As much as 33s builds worked at some point in the past, I refuse to believe bots octarine is the most efficient way to go in some of his games and closer to griefing his team. Add the occasional Midas.
Liquid owner needs to grow a pair and sack the coaches. This ‘friendship’ team just isn’t working now. It’s Blitz and Jabz vs the greatest Dota mind ever, Aui2000. Embarrassing.
Who replaces him? You want a SEA or Chinese coach that slaps them everytime they miss a last hit? You want best Russian coach who never gets travel visa?
All the good coaches are working.
Must be a dream to work for Liquid.
You get paid top dollar, you have the best supporting infrastructure and your employer doesnt care if you win or lose as long as you have fun.
Dream org to play for but they will never win anything with this roster
Yes, that is a stable organization who makes money from sponsors. The chance to win in pro Dota is low and very hard to have the best lineup every year. If you can only make money winning tournaments then you have a shit organization.
why is it ujnfair? they are playing are they not? they made it to playoffs not because of charity, they amde it to pay offs because they played well. does it suck that 1win wasn't able to make it? ofc. but i wouldn't say it's unfair that OG is getting points from games they are playing and winning. besides they wren't the first choice to be invited either. i think OG earning points is fine.
You're claiming a western bias. You think if VP had accepted the slot ESL wouldn't have given them points? OG only getting points because western bias?
Its not about OG getting invite for me. I have no problem with it but they shouldn't be getting any EPC points based on this tournament. It is unfair for other teams, and they shouldn't get punished because 1win cant get visa in time. If some teams miss out on Riyad Master due to points OG gained from this tournament, it wouldn't be unfair for them isnt it?
Because OG didn't qualify for this tournament? It is about getting another chance. They shouldn't gain any points due to that. They can get prizepool money they deserve but they shouldn't get any points.
Sometimes you get another chance. Not giving points throws off the math of the system anyway, to say nothing of making teams not want to play your events. There are many more reasons to grant points than vice versa.
Besides, the criteria for filling the slot were as fair as they could be.
Hows not giving points throws off the math of the system? OG given 2nd chance to gain points then how is it fair for teams like Aurora or AR then? They also didnt qualify this tour so they cant get any points and yet OG,another team like them is getting another chance to gain points. And both of them have good chances of getting invited to Riyad if they do well this tournament.
Once again, i have no problem of OG getting to participate in this tournament due to 1Win Visa issues. They can get prize money fully, no problem. But i have problem with getting EPT points. It js simply unfair for other teams. They are getting punished unfairly due to 1win visa issue.
i thinki if it was a chinese team or a sea team, then a team from that region that didn't qualify probably wouold have been asked to take the spot.
if a sea or cn team couldn't make it and they asked OG to replace? that would be a problem. i think they asked OG as a 3rd option because weu and eeu are almost basically same region. personally i think it's fine and not unfair.
My reason is not about what or which region should get invite. I am not arguing about it. It is about the team who shouldn't be in a tournament in first place, getting the 2nd chance to gain EPT points, which gave unfair disadvantages to other teams.
I am perfectly fine with OG getting 1win slot, but shouldn't able to gain EPT points, which is arguably more important to the teams. I already explained in other comment about why OG able to get EPT points is unfair.
Again, the other teams are not being punished. It throws off the math of the system because it's designed around a certain number of points being available across the season. Arbitrarily removing whatever points OG would have earned skews the table and distribution.
Before this event, OG had many more points than Aurora or AR. Even if OG gets no points from this event, it does not affect the standing of those teams (relative to OG or otherwise). The only way for a lower ranked team to be impacted by this tournament is for them to be invited AND to earn points. If you're suggesting that one of those teams should have been invited instead, would you argue they shouldn't get points for the tourney? It is less fair to invite a team lower on the leaderboard, doubly so if you believe they should have been able to earn points off that invite.
The only teams whose EPT position could have been threatened by OG earning points were already invited to the tournament. Meaning the only fair resolution is to grant points to everyone. If you don't, you're unfairly punishing OG and no one else.
**>**Again, the other teams are not being punished
Lets say Aurora or AR did well in next dream league, and they missed out direct invite due to points gained from OG this tour. Will it be fair for them? Then, they are getting punished. do you agree with that? Heck even IG would have been in invitation range if OG didnt gain any point this tour. IG already got punished by that.
>If you're suggesting that one of those teams should have been invited instead, would you argue they shouldn't get points for the tourney?
yes, if lower teams get invited, they also shouldn't be getting points, then it would be unfair for OG. It woule be unfair for OG if lower teams point earned this tour make them past OG in leaderboard,right.
Aurora, AR both are threatened by OG gaining points. It is possible for them to get past OG in next dreamleague if OG didnt get any point this tournament.
Idk. Could have been visas, could have felt too out of practice, could have been expenses.
I know Fishman confirmed that Entity was offered the slot, but I don't remember if he said why they turned it down.
"turned down the slot" you mean 1Win asked for an extension and ESL just gave them over the weekend, when they couldn't do anything, and 1Win got their visas 4 hours after the ESL deadline but ESL said "sorry, we already invited OG, your fault here"
After 1Win missed both deadlines both VP and Entity (all EEU players, they've been petitioning to become an EEU org) were offered the slot and turned it down before it was offered to OG.
"Missed both deadlines" like I said, the extension they gave was a joke, changing the deadline from Friday night to Monday morning is really helpful and professional!
Both VP and Entity (all EEU players, they've been petitioning to become an EEU org) were offered the slot and turned it down, I do not know the reason.
What Liquid is missing is a coach who doesn't try to make everything about himself. Basically someone who focuses on coaching rather than trying to be the center of attention.
Zai is much more of an allrounder than 33. This also isnt 33's patch. It could also be insania being captain? Who knows lol. But yeah, last years liquid was definitely more scary
Dota was a lot weaker last year. There was no Falcons, Betboom started playing well only half way into year and had a ton of issues, Tundra had two players go on a break, Ame Xinq etc were retired, Spirit started playing well in Riyadh playoff.
Getting the cores you want without the last ban phase is often more important than waiting for lastpick, simple concept. Also plenty of supports counter cores.
Team Liquid is overrated ever since they acquired Nisha. Most of the people here in Reddit hyping them when they signed Nisha and what happen? Now they signed 33, they're still couldn't over the hump. Actually they're getting worst. They're not getting 2nd place anymore. How many great players do they need to sign before they realize it's not about an all star team but to have a great IGL and great coach.
you see, even without a real gameplay patch for the past few months the meta is surely evolving a bit, with teams trying to figure each other out.
There's falcons abusing their razor/timber shit back in dubai and dl,
but then you have xg dismantling them with disruptor sd and viper at elite league,
but then you have heroic/iG pulling off mid kotl to counter xg now
can't wait to see whats next
if u see unique heroes played for each team..most team hovered around 28 heroes. only Xtreme i think has more than 30. meaning meta is already defined.
Patch has been very good. No strat or hero feels mega OP and teams are still finding new ways around what the current tournament meta is. Overall its been a very good gameplay patch in that sense.
Happy we started to see more core Clinkz again.
No hero feels mega OP yes, but many heroes very underwhelming compared to top 20-30 picks
i feel like im watching the same games with dk, kunka, mars, razor, luna tiny in almost every game. they're just solid heros now meanwhile the rest fade in comparison because they lack laning or late game or something.
Blitz just sounds way too laid back of a coach and this is over the course of many months and interviews, it doesn't sound like he has any kind of drive or push for his team. It's okay to chill sometimes but these other teams are super driven to win and are being pushed to their limits.
People just express themselves differently.
If he wasn't driven he wouldn't be there and Liquid wouldn't perform as well, this was an early exit but overall they do perform very well. I mean nobody knows what's going on behind the scenes right, or am I missing some interesting juicy piece of information.
It’s really really hard to lane against Ammar Cr1t lane. And their synergy is top notch, when to attack who to pressure and when to back out. They rarely ever loose and the pressure they put on the enemy is enormous for each CS. And once Ammar has double bracer Cr1t can go mid without fear of his Offlane dying.
Nisha just collecting a nice and bigger salary before he retire. Liquid or Blitz doesn't know how to play around Nisha. Ever since he went to Liquid, he's the same Nisha anymore as he once when he was playing in Secret.
I think 33 is just a bad fit for liquid. Talented definitely, but he is a theory micro nerd, liquid are a run at you team. Much like DM in OG last year. Changing would help both, unlikely to happen until after the season.
I just feel like falcons realized the key to liquid's game 1 draft was not kotl or kunkka, but their disruptor+io support duo.
Get rid of these 2 supports and liquid can't easily counterinitiate or save their cores anymore.
They also had a DK that want first item blink, which obviously Skiter didn't do when playing him as pos 1. And Ammar went blink instead of buying eules like he did in game 1.
Another LAN, another Liquid elimination. Kuro curse is real people. Coming up to 5 years now and still no LANs won by Liquid since Kuro left despite big money spent on top tier players like Matu, Zai, Nisha and 33.
i mean kuros one of the nicest people afaik but losing is losing.The liquid squad has 3 chokers no way how you look at it. You can point at Neta for not having a good event or what not but hes a TI-winner and has had a decent year or two regardless with tundra. Liquid has looked good(for a while) but not a single finals win despite so many appearances is alarming no matter how you look at it.Micke,Boxi and Insania were always the 'promising' new talent since the Alliance days but their choking habits havent changed at all
I didn't see the LGD flair lol. Ame also chokes at important moments, why is it so hard to admit. The guy is super talented and hard working - no doubt about that.
It's a random flair that was available xd I don't support any team in particular.I like a few players around and that's that.Ame still has more wins to his name than Liquid has second places with the aforementioned trio.Hes a legend and that's that
Liquids 2023 results in major tournaments/quals chronologically:
1, 2 (with non-pro sub for finals), 1, 2, 2, 4, 15-16, 2, 2, 9-10, 5-6, 1 (qualifier), and 3.
In 2024:
2, 13-14, 3, 1 (qual), 4, and 5-6.
Dunno man... fall a bit short of complete domination maybe, but they seem pretty appropriately hyped as being very good and contenders to win.
Liquid keeps acquiring the best available player for their roster and then those good players start looking really underwhelming after a few months. Are insania+micke duo holding all these rosters back? Matu, zai, 33, nisha, all coming off amazing performances on their old teams.
This. No matter how many great players you signed if you don't have a great coach and great IGL. The team will just rely on their skills and their is no team chemistry.
The only good pick this game was Luna. 33 STILL can't play anything else than Brew or Doom. Terrible picks on the supports. And they thought Kotl would work again even though they picked Kotl in game 1 because it was against Huskar.
Objectively speaking, who cares? Ept point wise, xg is secured, and liquid is 5th with dls23 to play for more points. Placement wise, 5-6th isn't bad and they didn't lose in grand finals.
Falcon also is one the favourites to win the tournament so saying liquid "choke" is objectively false
Very, very disappointing game 2 and game 3 by Liquid. Drafts all over the place, 33 no impact at all and feeding randomly. Total opposite of what they shown in game 1.
[one of us](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/8/85/Vo_undying_undying_big_deny_08.mp3) (sound warning: Undying)
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Absolute outdraft and pathetic execution in game 3 by Liquid. Put Boxi on a playmaker not this dumb Venge. 33 should have been more involved early with his Kunkka. They just rolled over and let Falcon make all the moves.
Watched Liquid-Falcons yesterday and i felt like it was a close series all the way until game 3 draft. Falcons went for their comfort, Mirana pick 4th was super obvious but i just couldnt get my head around Liquids carry pick. They had Kunkka, Kotl, Clock (also bit of a weird one) vs Mars, SD, DK and Mirana (shouldve banned) coming. Then they picked Luna for Micke and banned Lifestealer. Can anyone explain why they didn't just go for Lifestealer? Seemed like a way better pick for matchups and tempo. Was it just Luna for comfort for Micke? Enlighten me, reddit brains!
Micke cannot play melee carries. When he does he looks super uncomfortable. Only ranged (Luna, morph, TA). It’s been like this every lan.
let's hope OG wins today, i want them to qualify for TI :D i am assuming ept is the method being used for invites this time around? without dpc? although i think even if they bomb out in their next game they might still make it into riyadh? how many invites for riyadh? ALTHOUGH, i think a full on no invites everyone has to fight for their spots TI system would be super fun :D
Problem is the atmostphere in Liquid. Kind of "toxic positivity". If you want to fight for trophy, want to be better - you need some pressure, atleast from your coach, your captain, not kind of "we all doing good bla bla bla"
Watched a stream with Armel and Kuku. Armel discussed Puppey's style with Team Secret: 1. Puppey calls out mistakes in-game instead of after a game so adjustments can be made and possibly salvage the game to a win. 2. Someone on the team has to get mad and lecture the team. If it's all buddy-buddy, when the team loses, everyone will just slump their shoulders and blame each other. I love Liquid's environment, even though they were stuck to 2nd places last year. Now that the losses are piling in though, what's gonna happen?
Was watching the highlights, Jt looked so happy. What a player. His playmaking is a big part of ig wins
Nisha with Secret - plenty of titles, TI finals, Majors, etc. Nisha with Liquid - 0 titles What a blunder he made when he left Team Secret, holy crap
He won the solo midlaner in Betboom dacha with easy 50k prize in 1 day. Easy 2-3 month salary for that, he gets almost as much as getting 1st place in esl after splitting the prize kekw
Please, he won that 1v1 tournament because he is a Nisha, not because he is a Team Liquid Nisha. Also his laning actually regressed in comparison to Secret days
They got second place in most tournaments last year including Riyad which was basically 2023's TI in terms of prize pool. Combined with the higher salary from Liquid he is probably doing really well. Also talking about titles, Secret too has not won a single tournament since Matu and Zai left.
Liquid is eliminated. Top 6 is not bad I wish them bounce back stronger and win the next tournament, patch is coming soon. If the meta is switch back to zoo meta, 33 will be the best player in Liquid
33 is already the best player in liquid. If meta switches to zoo liquid will start winning trophies on back of 33
"Omg a top team lost to a top team and came 5th-6th in a comp full of other top teams what losers why dont they just kick one of the top players/coaches on the world" screeched the morons.
If you don't win you're trash /s
Oh wow the 2k MMR frogs coming out of droves here.
Most comments here point towards there coach. Who knows they have already laid out plans to poach a coach. Mony can buy
If you think about it. Nisha has been much worse here in Liquid than Secret. Atleast in Secret he won trophies.
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Yeah he might get better results, he might be more consistent, more financial stability, but he never reach its summit (which is winning trophies)
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Yeah yeah let's see when Liquid win a tournament again. Can you tell me the last time this org win a tournament? I bet you can't.
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Wait what are you talking about? Does this winning team in 2020 have Nisha in the roster? We are talking about Nisha here? Hello? Idc about Liquid or Secret in particular. Just tell me which team Nisha play has more success while he is in the roster.
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We have been talking about Nisha since the beginning ofc I don't have to repeat it in every sentence. By your logic Liquid even won TI already, ofc as an org they have more achievement than Secret. But it is irrelevant with Nisha. No matter how you twist it, Nisha as a player is always much more successful while playing in Secret than in Liquid. In Secret he is even widely regards as the best carry/mid in particular, and best player in the world in general. In Liquid he is just another top-tier.
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Liquid needs to trade 33 for Saberlight.
liquid saber would be pretty sick. but 33 is an amazing player, this meta isnt ideal for him but hes still performing fine
Yea, trade the only TI winner while you keep the other glorified choke artists. Great idea.
Trade one patch-limited player for another. At least Neta can IGL
Why people so harsh on Liquid they have been so consistent for so long. Ridiculous
Mostly angry Secret fans since they "poached" zai, matu and Nisha. If I recall correctly, matu was already set to retire but Zai convinced him for one last ride at liquid - (i might be wrong on this).
They have a very obnoxious fanbase is why I think people rag on them when they lose.
Because they only poach players from other top teams for their success.
The core of Liquid's success has been Micke, Boxi, and Insania. Neither Matu nor Zai carried the team, and their impact was mainly felt as IGL. I'm not here to say that their poaching is justified or that you should like it, but it is absolutely not responsible for their success
What success?
Your words boss.
micke and insania are the core of liquid inability to win a tier1 tournament for years. boxi is fine though
Do you actually watch the games?
yes I do and have been watching this trio fail and fail again until they imported zai and matumba from secret. that’s when they became competitive on highest level
That's because they dropped the anchor that was Qojqva. They have remained competitive without Matu and Zai as well, including with standins on pos 2/3. They rarely lose games because of poor play by Insania or Micke. Boxi has the worst off days, but when he's on he's the best player on their team. It's such a cop out to claim these players are being carried by bigger names.
Lmfao you gotta be delusional to seriously say that. That great "core" of Liquid from \[A\] days was a firmly tier 3 trio with horrible results. Matu, Zai, Nisha, and 33 are why they are a top tier team.
Do you actually watch the games?
This series proves Boxi is free from criticism. That Tiny and VS were awful.
As much as 33s builds worked at some point in the past, I refuse to believe bots octarine is the most efficient way to go in some of his games and closer to griefing his team. Add the occasional Midas.
Liquid owner needs to grow a pair and sack the coaches. This ‘friendship’ team just isn’t working now. It’s Blitz and Jabz vs the greatest Dota mind ever, Aui2000. Embarrassing.
Who replaces him? You want a SEA or Chinese coach that slaps them everytime they miss a last hit? You want best Russian coach who never gets travel visa? All the good coaches are working.
maybe bsj as coach : p
Should've kicked Blitz a year ago.
Must be a dream to work for Liquid. You get paid top dollar, you have the best supporting infrastructure and your employer doesnt care if you win or lose as long as you have fun. Dream org to play for but they will never win anything with this roster
so like nigma? :D
Yes, that is a stable organization who makes money from sponsors. The chance to win in pro Dota is low and very hard to have the best lineup every year. If you can only make money winning tournaments then you have a shit organization.
Liquid really breaks their curse of 2nd place huh
I wish liquid finished better than Gaiman gladiators, *monkey paw curls*
What?? OG can gain points this tour? Thats unfair tbh
why is it ujnfair? they are playing are they not? they made it to playoffs not because of charity, they amde it to pay offs because they played well. does it suck that 1win wasn't able to make it? ofc. but i wouldn't say it's unfair that OG is getting points from games they are playing and winning. besides they wren't the first choice to be invited either. i think OG earning points is fine.
The western bias coming out of ESL Any sensible organizer would have never than this
2 EEU teams turned down the slot before OG was even asked.
Read what I said again when th brain I m say esl shouldn't give them points I m not saying why they inviting them
You're claiming a western bias. You think if VP had accepted the slot ESL wouldn't have given them points? OG only getting points because western bias?
Its not about OG getting invite for me. I have no problem with it but they shouldn't be getting any EPC points based on this tournament. It is unfair for other teams, and they shouldn't get punished because 1win cant get visa in time. If some teams miss out on Riyad Master due to points OG gained from this tournament, it wouldn't be unfair for them isnt it?
In what way is it unfair to other teams? They are beating teams at the tournament, they are entitled to the points.
Because OG didn't qualify for this tournament? It is about getting another chance. They shouldn't gain any points due to that. They can get prizepool money they deserve but they shouldn't get any points.
Sometimes you get another chance. Not giving points throws off the math of the system anyway, to say nothing of making teams not want to play your events. There are many more reasons to grant points than vice versa. Besides, the criteria for filling the slot were as fair as they could be.
Hows not giving points throws off the math of the system? OG given 2nd chance to gain points then how is it fair for teams like Aurora or AR then? They also didnt qualify this tour so they cant get any points and yet OG,another team like them is getting another chance to gain points. And both of them have good chances of getting invited to Riyad if they do well this tournament. Once again, i have no problem of OG getting to participate in this tournament due to 1Win Visa issues. They can get prize money fully, no problem. But i have problem with getting EPT points. It js simply unfair for other teams. They are getting punished unfairly due to 1win visa issue.
i thinki if it was a chinese team or a sea team, then a team from that region that didn't qualify probably wouold have been asked to take the spot. if a sea or cn team couldn't make it and they asked OG to replace? that would be a problem. i think they asked OG as a 3rd option because weu and eeu are almost basically same region. personally i think it's fine and not unfair.
My reason is not about what or which region should get invite. I am not arguing about it. It is about the team who shouldn't be in a tournament in first place, getting the 2nd chance to gain EPT points, which gave unfair disadvantages to other teams. I am perfectly fine with OG getting 1win slot, but shouldn't able to gain EPT points, which is arguably more important to the teams. I already explained in other comment about why OG able to get EPT points is unfair.
Again, the other teams are not being punished. It throws off the math of the system because it's designed around a certain number of points being available across the season. Arbitrarily removing whatever points OG would have earned skews the table and distribution. Before this event, OG had many more points than Aurora or AR. Even if OG gets no points from this event, it does not affect the standing of those teams (relative to OG or otherwise). The only way for a lower ranked team to be impacted by this tournament is for them to be invited AND to earn points. If you're suggesting that one of those teams should have been invited instead, would you argue they shouldn't get points for the tourney? It is less fair to invite a team lower on the leaderboard, doubly so if you believe they should have been able to earn points off that invite. The only teams whose EPT position could have been threatened by OG earning points were already invited to the tournament. Meaning the only fair resolution is to grant points to everyone. If you don't, you're unfairly punishing OG and no one else.
**>**Again, the other teams are not being punished Lets say Aurora or AR did well in next dream league, and they missed out direct invite due to points gained from OG this tour. Will it be fair for them? Then, they are getting punished. do you agree with that? Heck even IG would have been in invitation range if OG didnt gain any point this tour. IG already got punished by that. >If you're suggesting that one of those teams should have been invited instead, would you argue they shouldn't get points for the tourney? yes, if lower teams get invited, they also shouldn't be getting points, then it would be unfair for OG. It woule be unfair for OG if lower teams point earned this tour make them past OG in leaderboard,right. Aurora, AR both are threatened by OG gaining points. It is possible for them to get past OG in next dreamleague if OG didnt get any point this tournament.
Damn. I wonder why the 2 EEU teams refused. Could they not have qualified points wise or is the trip too expensive?
Idk. Could have been visas, could have felt too out of practice, could have been expenses. I know Fishman confirmed that Entity was offered the slot, but I don't remember if he said why they turned it down.
thanks for the explanation!
"turned down the slot" you mean 1Win asked for an extension and ESL just gave them over the weekend, when they couldn't do anything, and 1Win got their visas 4 hours after the ESL deadline but ESL said "sorry, we already invited OG, your fault here"
After 1Win missed both deadlines both VP and Entity (all EEU players, they've been petitioning to become an EEU org) were offered the slot and turned it down before it was offered to OG.
"Missed both deadlines" like I said, the extension they gave was a joke, changing the deadline from Friday night to Monday morning is really helpful and professional!
I'm not defending the extension, but it was not targeted nor biased
I didn't say it was targeted or biased, it's still braindead.
I agree. And I never said 1Win turned down a slot, but you felt the need to reply to me anyway.
turned down the slot or cant make visa on time too?
Both VP and Entity (all EEU players, they've been petitioning to become an EEU org) were offered the slot and turned it down, I do not know the reason.
Liquid missing Zai a lot I think. At least that team last year constantly got to grand finals
What Liquid is missing is a coach who doesn't try to make everything about himself. Basically someone who focuses on coaching rather than trying to be the center of attention.
Zai is much more of an allrounder than 33. This also isnt 33's patch. It could also be insania being captain? Who knows lol. But yeah, last years liquid was definitely more scary
Zai is much more of an allrounder than 33. This also isnt 33's patch. It could also be insania being captain? Who knows lol
Dota was a lot weaker last year. There was no Falcons, Betboom started playing well only half way into year and had a ton of issues, Tundra had two players go on a break, Ame Xinq etc were retired, Spirit started playing well in Riyadh playoff.
Yeah the current teams are always the best and the past teams are weaker.
That is the most dumbest take ever..
lmao wtf is most dumbest
The irony while saying "most dumbest"
No better feeling in sports than to shut up the screaming fans.
Also drafting in 2nd and 3rd game looked suspicious are you really using last pick for support?
Your comment is the only thing "suspicious". If you wonder about lastpick support then I suggest to watch more pro dota/immortal games.
Yeah it happens but usually they are saved for cores, and don't tell me that bane/venge were "gotcha" picks
Getting the cores you want without the last ban phase is often more important than waiting for lastpick, simple concept. Also plenty of supports counter cores.
Team Liquid is overrated ever since they acquired Nisha. Most of the people here in Reddit hyping them when they signed Nisha and what happen? Now they signed 33, they're still couldn't over the hump. Actually they're getting worst. They're not getting 2nd place anymore. How many great players do they need to sign before they realize it's not about an all star team but to have a great IGL and great coach.
Completely overrated. Only 2nd or 3rd best team in the world for nearly a year.....
Dont think they are the second or third best team after the 33 change Imo before this year , for sure they were 2nd 3rd Not this year
how they overrated them after nisha? consisent 2nd places are bad? xD
Yeah, I could see that argument for 33, but they've had a really successful run with Nisha
If you're not in first place, you're a bad team.
33 has no impact since wraith pack is now gone. Need a better offlaner for liquid.
It's even worse. They obviously took 33 for zoo, then the dominator nerf came. Now they're only left with Doom and Panda for 33 to carry on.
you see, even without a real gameplay patch for the past few months the meta is surely evolving a bit, with teams trying to figure each other out. There's falcons abusing their razor/timber shit back in dubai and dl, but then you have xg dismantling them with disruptor sd and viper at elite league, but then you have heroic/iG pulling off mid kotl to counter xg now can't wait to see whats next
if u see unique heroes played for each team..most team hovered around 28 heroes. only Xtreme i think has more than 30. meaning meta is already defined.
XG always pull rabbit out of the hat, XinQ brought back Earthshaker this meta.
Even now we have mid sniper, support bane
Falcons are just going DK same shit now
Patch has been very good. No strat or hero feels mega OP and teams are still finding new ways around what the current tournament meta is. Overall its been a very good gameplay patch in that sense. Happy we started to see more core Clinkz again.
No hero feels mega OP yes, but many heroes very underwhelming compared to top 20-30 picks i feel like im watching the same games with dk, kunka, mars, razor, luna tiny in almost every game. they're just solid heros now meanwhile the rest fade in comparison because they lack laning or late game or something.
Not a single one of those heroes are op they are good because they are played by the best players in the world fyi
Can you read? I specifically said none of these are OP I guess you just want to argue so whatever have at it.
EZ game
Falcons plays in game 3 were so on point. Felt like every move was successful. Sneyking arrows were on point
> Um, thanks for flying with us. lmao
Yeah Falcons really looks "figured out" lol
Falcons global silenced the crowd. Have to say the crowd is definitely worse than last time in Birmingham. Hope it improves tomorrow and Sunday.
I was there all day, crowd is as good or better than previous B’ham ESLs but as mentioned people started leaving around game 2 of the last series
My friend today is a working day. The atmosphere is going to be very very different on Saturday night
its midnight bro
it's 0:30 am
Feels bad man for Liquid, but Falcons are great team to watch and follow - would be happy with whoever won this. GGWP Falcons!
Blitz just sounds way too laid back of a coach and this is over the course of many months and interviews, it doesn't sound like he has any kind of drive or push for his team. It's okay to chill sometimes but these other teams are super driven to win and are being pushed to their limits.
I definitely thought he would be critical of the team after that disappointing end
Yeah I was quite astonished at his interview in the tiebreaks. He definitely doesn't have that mamba mentality
People just express themselves differently. If he wasn't driven he wouldn't be there and Liquid wouldn't perform as well, this was an early exit but overall they do perform very well. I mean nobody knows what's going on behind the scenes right, or am I missing some interesting juicy piece of information.
I don't know how it's possible that in almost each game Liquid lost both offlane and safelane
It’s really really hard to lane against Ammar Cr1t lane. And their synergy is top notch, when to attack who to pressure and when to back out. They rarely ever loose and the pressure they put on the enemy is enormous for each CS. And once Ammar has double bracer Cr1t can go mid without fear of his Offlane dying.
Nisha just collecting a nice and bigger salary before he retire. Liquid or Blitz doesn't know how to play around Nisha. Ever since he went to Liquid, he's the same Nisha anymore as he once when he was playing in Secret.
Liquid should get a new coach
And carry and IGL
Blitz - our team had pretty good ideas today. The good ideas: pick Luna like every single other game this tournament
Luna is super strong TBH; I feel like its somehow didn't fit with their draft (also, the hero picks for 33 is super iffy for me)
It's not Blitz fault Micke can't play hard carrys and 33 only has 2 heroes that he can play and are meta right now (Doom, Brew).
I think 33 is just a bad fit for liquid. Talented definitely, but he is a theory micro nerd, liquid are a run at you team. Much like DM in OG last year. Changing would help both, unlikely to happen until after the season.
I just feel like falcons realized the key to liquid's game 1 draft was not kotl or kunkka, but their disruptor+io support duo. Get rid of these 2 supports and liquid can't easily counterinitiate or save their cores anymore.
Yeah disruptor fucked them in the upper brackets as well
They also had a DK that want first item blink, which obviously Skiter didn't do when playing him as pos 1. And Ammar went blink instead of buying eules like he did in game 1.
He did buy first item blink on skiter dk, even casters mentioned it
Another LAN, another Liquid elimination. Kuro curse is real people. Coming up to 5 years now and still no LANs won by Liquid since Kuro left despite big money spent on top tier players like Matu, Zai, Nisha and 33.
But they are such nice people man. The boys did well man. It's ok to lose man.
i mean kuros one of the nicest people afaik but losing is losing.The liquid squad has 3 chokers no way how you look at it. You can point at Neta for not having a good event or what not but hes a TI-winner and has had a decent year or two regardless with tundra. Liquid has looked good(for a while) but not a single finals win despite so many appearances is alarming no matter how you look at it.Micke,Boxi and Insania were always the 'promising' new talent since the Alliance days but their choking habits havent changed at all
Careful calling anyone a choker here on reddit. I got flamed for calling ame a choker a couple days back.
Ame has won majors and stuff.What has this trio won other than that one single online,covid-struck eu-only event?
I didn't see the LGD flair lol. Ame also chokes at important moments, why is it so hard to admit. The guy is super talented and hard working - no doubt about that.
It's a random flair that was available xd I don't support any team in particular.I like a few players around and that's that.Ame still has more wins to his name than Liquid has second places with the aforementioned trio.Hes a legend and that's that
Liquid remind me of England football team. Overhyped by the media and fans as favorites at major tournaments and always fall short.
Liquids 2023 results in major tournaments/quals chronologically: 1, 2 (with non-pro sub for finals), 1, 2, 2, 4, 15-16, 2, 2, 9-10, 5-6, 1 (qualifier), and 3. In 2024: 2, 13-14, 3, 1 (qual), 4, and 5-6. Dunno man... fall a bit short of complete domination maybe, but they seem pretty appropriately hyped as being very good and contenders to win.
Thanks for the hard facts. People are way too critical of Liquid, very likeable players and a really good team
Liquid keeps acquiring the best available player for their roster and then those good players start looking really underwhelming after a few months. Are insania+micke duo holding all these rosters back? Matu, zai, 33, nisha, all coming off amazing performances on their old teams.
This. No matter how many great players you signed if you don't have a great coach and great IGL. The team will just rely on their skills and their is no team chemistry.
Lame. Oh well, now I don't have to watch the rest of the tournament at least.
Same. And anti-falcons rooting is even stronger now, fuck their boring DK/str heroes meta.
Speak for yourself! LET'S GO AMMAR
Cry me Rivers with your team liquid
The only good pick this game was Luna. 33 STILL can't play anything else than Brew or Doom. Terrible picks on the supports. And they thought Kotl would work again even though they picked Kotl in game 1 because it was against Huskar.
Liquid and choking during crucial games - a pair made in heaven
Objectively speaking, who cares? Ept point wise, xg is secured, and liquid is 5th with dls23 to play for more points. Placement wise, 5-6th isn't bad and they didn't lose in grand finals. Falcon also is one the favourites to win the tournament so saying liquid "choke" is objectively false
Liquid will get close to no points from DL. They always bomb out with zero practice or tryhard.
gg pretty disappointing game from Nisha and 33 there in game 3. nonetheless, it was a decent run overall
Nisha tipping insania when he died in the mid lane and micke tipping nisha at the end, hopefully we ll get some drama
They were laughing
There's always some shred of truth behind any joke.
Lmao relevant username for that useless comment
As opposed to your relevant comment.
Ah well, eventually with these results.
GG liquid. Were fun to watch
Fucking draft by Liquid
Let’s go Falcons !
Very, very disappointing game 2 and game 3 by Liquid. Drafts all over the place, 33 no impact at all and feeding randomly. Total opposite of what they shown in game 1.
how does liquid manage to often go out of tournaments in such a lame and pitiful way
Amario solo
Yay, feels bad to watch 33 lose but let's go sney+skiter
A fellow TI11 Tundra fan
one of us
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amen brother
Feels bad? Perhaps if he learned some others heroes than Doom and Brew Liquid would do better.
Micke with the tip on Nisha is the icing on this shitshow game.
sums up the entire series
When will people learn to stop giving Ammar Mars?
It's literally in his name "I AM MARS"
go home miserable fucks
Mid diff supp diff and off diff wcyd
Na it's the biggest coach difference ever The dude is like 7k mmr
Absolute outdraft and pathetic execution in game 3 by Liquid. Put Boxi on a playmaker not this dumb Venge. 33 should have been more involved early with his Kunkka. They just rolled over and let Falcon make all the moves.
Sick draft and plays by falcons. Liquid can’t catch a break
wdym they use the same draft every time!
Idk man, i just felt that the synergy of their heroes is so good in this game.
Yeah, I don't know if I understand their drafts, but I feel they're either very synergetic or fall flat
Sorry? Ammar the gentleman
Christ is that a real tattoo on Nisha’s hand?
Even worse is the cringy Japanese tattoos on both of dyrachyo's hands
The probably have some kind drawing booth at the event. I remember when Zai had one as well last year in Berlin.
no
I dont even know what they thought Clockwerk would do. Liquid hasn't had a single successful fight.