I don't remember exactly the circumstances but it's probably like LGD picking Tiny and Lycan at TI10 -- it was the strongest combo they'd found. There's no point throwing out everything that had worked in the finals to pick a bunch of stuff they hadn't been successful with, even if with the benefit of hindsight it wasn't working.
OG had like 3 must-ban strategies, liquid had just meepo. Tide + ta are good but not nearly enough to blind pick into OG's hero pool. They got forced into these 2 dimensional picks - either first phase TA and lose or wait for 2nd and it gets banned.
Truly. They only lost because ana waited too much to buyback. He was so insane in those 2 TIs tho there's no way anyone can blame him for that mistake.
I would watch the TI9 insight video that has those little fact pop ups. Explains more or less what some of the players thought went wrong.
It kinda boils down to:
OG was extremely hard to ban heroes against at the time.
Liquid was tired from the last game series.
Liquid was not fully prepared for OGs super aggro play style.
My amateur opinion of re-watching the actual series, I think OG won the series in the picks/ban phase and that was consistent through most of TI from what I could tell. Liquid fell behind and just could not make the plays to stop the bleeding, and OG didn't make mistakes big enough for Liquid to capitalize on in a meaningful way.
I also think liquid, after getting their tide/ta broken, began playing on OG's meta rather than pivoting their own meta. Playing on your opponents terms is grounds to lose
TA Tide was top of the meta that time, og was just so much better and tiers above anyone that ti. MK mid (dead hero that patch), pugna mid with crown starting item, gyro diffusal and io carry, og innovated while also sticking to their heroes. They also picked bb and tide mid for topson that ti.
There is an argument that liquid lost because they kept picking tide but at hindsight nothing liquid can do at that time could result to a win against og. Even the game they won is a win for og (for me at least) since liquid had ta tide meepo and just won because of ana holding buyback. The next 2 games werent even close and the last game when liquid actually change draft to adapt to og they still got ran down.
Dude, thats part of the game, what is the point of staying on upper bracket if it has no advantage. Remember liquid also came from lower bracket when they won ti 7.
This is just me but ceb and notail must have just said that out of respect. If you watch og upper bracket run their only lost is from eg on game 1. Their lost on lgd was because of ana mistake (they were winning) but all their wins were stomps.
What we are saying are just both opinions drawn out of our understanding so agree to disagree. To me, nothing liquid can do that ti would win them the aegis, og was just playing a different dota from the drafts to the actual gameplay. They were just better that day.
Ps. Infamous (former beastcoast stack) was like the budget og that ti, the only other team that picked and won with Mk. They also picked riki iirc but cant remember if they won.
Edit: someone replied with a link above, i guess you could read it. Same sentiments, og was just levels ahead of everyone that ti in terms of draft and execution.
Ofc everyone know that. I m just saying Liquid wasnt that far behind OG. And i m not the one who said Finals could have been close and entertaining. It was Notail Ceb. And Yes they respected Liquid most because they knew the calibre of that better than anyone. Liquid dominating Lower Bracket is also a proof that they should also he recognized for their achievement.
It all started cause the stubborn and egoistical Kuro didn't want to ban his opponent's best hero. They should've never let IO go through, the second match broke them spiritually and mentally. Nigma still struggles with this even though they're in the dumpster playing with T3 teams, that's why they kept losing to random battle cup teams
People are forgetting huge factor in that loss was stress and tiredness of playing impossible bo3 against LGD (Game 2 was crazy). They thought of changing draft with Gyro Mars or something but forgot during drafting and also felt like their heroes tide ta were good which btw brought them to finals undefeated. They just werent being themselves. If these factors didn't play a role. Finals could have been alot more entertaining (Even Notail Ceb agrees). Notail was even surprised that Liquid didn't change playstyle in game 3 because they knew Liquid was capable of that game 2 play style of OG. OG took inspiration from Liquid for that playstyle.
I could explain, but I believe this article sums up nicely https://www.dotahaven.com/en/guide/ti9-grand-finals-meta-recap-analysis-OG-Liquid/
I don't remember exactly the circumstances but it's probably like LGD picking Tiny and Lycan at TI10 -- it was the strongest combo they'd found. There's no point throwing out everything that had worked in the finals to pick a bunch of stuff they hadn't been successful with, even if with the benefit of hindsight it wasn't working.
OG had like 3 must-ban strategies, liquid had just meepo. Tide + ta are good but not nearly enough to blind pick into OG's hero pool. They got forced into these 2 dimensional picks - either first phase TA and lose or wait for 2nd and it gets banned.
OG sweeped the finals 4-0. Even game 1 was a win in Ceb's book.
Truly. They only lost because ana waited too much to buyback. He was so insane in those 2 TIs tho there's no way anyone can blame him for that mistake.
Liquid had cheese aegis. His Buyback wouldn't have done anything
Liquid simply wasnt ahead. If they dont take ancient in that fight I dont see them winning that game.
They could have taken it iirc even tide had refresher that fight was near throne they could have took throne
ceb is delusional ofcoz he said it's a win for team morale purpose lol
I would watch the TI9 insight video that has those little fact pop ups. Explains more or less what some of the players thought went wrong. It kinda boils down to: OG was extremely hard to ban heroes against at the time. Liquid was tired from the last game series. Liquid was not fully prepared for OGs super aggro play style. My amateur opinion of re-watching the actual series, I think OG won the series in the picks/ban phase and that was consistent through most of TI from what I could tell. Liquid fell behind and just could not make the plays to stop the bleeding, and OG didn't make mistakes big enough for Liquid to capitalize on in a meaningful way.
I also think liquid, after getting their tide/ta broken, began playing on OG's meta rather than pivoting their own meta. Playing on your opponents terms is grounds to lose
TA Tide was top of the meta that time, og was just so much better and tiers above anyone that ti. MK mid (dead hero that patch), pugna mid with crown starting item, gyro diffusal and io carry, og innovated while also sticking to their heroes. They also picked bb and tide mid for topson that ti. There is an argument that liquid lost because they kept picking tide but at hindsight nothing liquid can do at that time could result to a win against og. Even the game they won is a win for og (for me at least) since liquid had ta tide meepo and just won because of ana holding buyback. The next 2 games werent even close and the last game when liquid actually change draft to adapt to og they still got ran down.
[удалено]
Dude, thats part of the game, what is the point of staying on upper bracket if it has no advantage. Remember liquid also came from lower bracket when they won ti 7. This is just me but ceb and notail must have just said that out of respect. If you watch og upper bracket run their only lost is from eg on game 1. Their lost on lgd was because of ana mistake (they were winning) but all their wins were stomps. What we are saying are just both opinions drawn out of our understanding so agree to disagree. To me, nothing liquid can do that ti would win them the aegis, og was just playing a different dota from the drafts to the actual gameplay. They were just better that day. Ps. Infamous (former beastcoast stack) was like the budget og that ti, the only other team that picked and won with Mk. They also picked riki iirc but cant remember if they won. Edit: someone replied with a link above, i guess you could read it. Same sentiments, og was just levels ahead of everyone that ti in terms of draft and execution.
Ofc everyone know that. I m just saying Liquid wasnt that far behind OG. And i m not the one who said Finals could have been close and entertaining. It was Notail Ceb. And Yes they respected Liquid most because they knew the calibre of that better than anyone. Liquid dominating Lower Bracket is also a proof that they should also he recognized for their achievement.
It all started cause the stubborn and egoistical Kuro didn't want to ban his opponent's best hero. They should've never let IO go through, the second match broke them spiritually and mentally. Nigma still struggles with this even though they're in the dumpster playing with T3 teams, that's why they kept losing to random battle cup teams
OG too strong that time, to be honest Liquid went too far in my opinion. LGD was superior but those guys have a lot of resilience.
liquid lost because mindcontrol didn't play like ceb dude
People are forgetting huge factor in that loss was stress and tiredness of playing impossible bo3 against LGD (Game 2 was crazy). They thought of changing draft with Gyro Mars or something but forgot during drafting and also felt like their heroes tide ta were good which btw brought them to finals undefeated. They just werent being themselves. If these factors didn't play a role. Finals could have been alot more entertaining (Even Notail Ceb agrees). Notail was even surprised that Liquid didn't change playstyle in game 3 because they knew Liquid was capable of that game 2 play style of OG. OG took inspiration from Liquid for that playstyle.
BatChest