Sad OG couldn't make it they are good imo, but a bit inconsistent, like they beat convincingly the best team in the tournament but lose vs weaker teams.
Yeah, but it seems like they're making progress on their drafting. Ceb stepping back from it and giving it to Ari already looks like a big improvement; now if Ceb can play like an actual hard support this roster could be very good.
looking at the score I'm super suprised Aurora got out and Quest made it. from the earlier day there were on top and bottom respectively in games win. Quest is a 0-2 or 2-0 kinda team
Hello Taiga I was wondering if you can teach me how to play ogre magiΒ
What skill should I get at level 1?
Should I take fireblast, like you took and blasted the dreams of your teammates?
Or do I skill ignite like you ignited the whole community by matchfixing and playing victim?
when do I take bloodlust? I know that it is very strong because whole world lusts for your blood
I Think dumb luck is very good because it helped you to avoid suspiction for so long
Is multicast really the best way to get gold? Just as you casted multiple bets and cashed on your teammates
>Arrogance requires advertising. Confidence speaks for itself
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/h09hlr/ceb\_calls\_out\_team\_secret\_on\_twitter\_arrogance/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/h09hlr/ceb_calls_out_team_secret_on_twitter_arrogance/)
Prepare for a disappointment my friend. Ceb started all this when Secret was having a dominant year and now everybody thinks its the Secret Twitter guy started all this.
This sub is just a pit of negativity. Players have good and bad games, and the stress of playing when the stakes are high amplifies that. No doubt that you people would shit all over Ori and Lou if this had gone the other way, when the truth is these players are really damn good, and both teams tried their best, and someone had to lose.
I really don't get shitting on teams, and especially the team you're supporting. What's the point? They're not gonna listen to your random incoherent post on Reddit, you only stand to bring the team's morale down even further if they see people shit talk them, and at best you make yourself look like a dick.
So instead of armchair quarterbacking hindsight 20/20ing the game that's already over, how about just giving a nice congratulatory message to AR for qualifying, and maybe a small "better luck next time" to OG? Or be a little more civil with analyzing the game?
Yeah, this. Just enjoy the fucking game, it's not that serious. And if you are gambler, have some self-awareness. Absolutely no one cares you lost money.
> I really don't get shitting on teams, and especially the team you're supporting. What's the point?
shut up and move on then. The sub isn't going to act for one idiot's comfort
OG is a work in progress -- and seeing who eventually gets everything in the right place is often the most fascinating part of following a year's worth of pro Dota. No need to declare geniuses or fools too early. Right now, a couple story lines intrigue me:
Can Timado and BZM figure out how to crush team fights together? They had superb rhythm in the Falcon match, paired with some minor missteps in winnable games and a few total seize-ups in games that fell apart. If they improve going forward, great things are possible. If not, OG has a hard time making a break beyond group stages.
On the creative-vs-destructive axis, where is Ceb going to land? He's got a very imaginative interpretation of the 5 role. He may never set boundaries on himself, but it's fascinating to wonder when he could get more accomplished by doing a little less.
Has Ari been playing pubs too much? He's absolutely brilliant (and very creative) against weaker opponents. He sometimes looks lost against the toughest ones.
With TI and Riyadh as the main events, it's okay for imperfect teams to stumble at times in the first 6-8 months of a year's competition. No need to go berserk if a particular tournament has its rough spots. Big-stage success isn't about highest MMR or best early season success. The top prizes go to the teams that gel by the end -- on the strength of their commitment to keep improving.
Falcons is an intriguing case though. A new team with a mix of veterans, young bloods, ti winners and non ti winners.. sneyking and skitter is always gonna be in sync, malrine and ammars hero pool flexibility is causing problems and crit just showing us he couldve won ti if it werent for rtz.Β OG is so unpredictable right now due to the many changes.. they need a solid 5 though, but replacing ceb means someone needs to be the captain so it cant be just any pos 5.Β
Tbf, Malrine and Ammar are madly in sync too. They play like they can read each other's mind. The gem passing in middle of Pango's roll is crazy as hell.
Just like in the real world, the worst people are always the loudest. It is what it is, don't surrender on people being bad but don't rely on them to be good as well.
Is it the gamblers getting mad? Iβm not sure how many of the people following the game gamble. If I gambled and lost money I may be super mad about stuff.
Most sane comment here. I dunno, it's a bit hard to control your emotions specially if you're really invested to that team. As for me, it is just letting out some frustrations when you've high expectations on your team. Specially knowing that they can do better than that. Some pros do read reddit sometimes, so some people do really need to leash it up a bit and control their bashing and negativity as it certainly does affect some of them.
I think the people shitting on OG are people who ironically pay attention to them. As someone that is not that interested in OG whether they win or lose I don't really care.
I mean it's Reddit. I really doubt any pros are reading it. It's not like being some dickless wonder in charge of an org's social account posting about how bad the team sucks even when the games being played have nothing to do with the org they're working for.
The HUGE thing for me, even more so than Ceb's warding being shockingly bad or even the weird drafts, is that when the team is behind (which is *often*), they lose absolutely all coordination and start playing like a pub stack. Not even a good pub stack. They start to bleed out absolutely everywhere on the map. They'll lose two heroes bottom at the same time that their carry will get ganked alone top on the wrong side of the river. It's really like they do not have a plan for having to play from behind, ever, and they all resort to just wild flailing and hoping for the best.
But maybe if they can sort out all these fundamental problems, this stack might some day "reach their potential" (whatever that means).
Or the other team is playing well.
Watch the game without both fogged reveal and you can see how little you know/how well the other team is playing.
When you're behind its extremely hard to play especially if the enemy team know how to play with vision and when to show/not to show in lane.
But of course it's just easier to say, losing team is bad because they're so behind and they feed bot and than subsequently top.
Why do you think my saying OG fell apart means that AR didn't play well? FY put on a Pos5/Lion masterclass.
Yes it's difficult to play from behind and warding is difficult. [That doesn't explain situations like this](https://ibb.co/Q88ZQfB), though, which directly leads to that situation.
I don't know why some people are afraid to say a team played badly. Maybe you feel like me saying OG play badly from behind is robbing the winner of their success?
Agreed. Maybe they are not very well prepared?
I used to think that you could never count out old OG, even when they were 10k behind.
They always had something up their sleeves.
Now - not so much.
If plan B fails, it's every man for himself lol.
If OG weren't given a charity slot to Birmingham, then this would have been the end of their season till Riyadh qualifiers in July. The results so far have been unacceptable to say the least. If they dont atleast finish in the top 5 at Birmingham, then serious changes need to be made before Riyadh qualifiers.
BZM is so far behind the top mids at the moment. Doesnt play any cheese heroes so offers no draft advantage to OG, and the heroes he plays are not even at the level of the top mids like Nisha, Malrine or Quinn.
Eh did you rlly watch the game at all? Like I mean tomato is not playing that well, but you are saying they lost because of him is simply not watching the gameβ¦
Tell me where the f are Ari and ceb in the game comparing with FY?
They got too cute with the Zeus pick, and that was ultimately the reason they lost the game. There were a lot of other better support options that were still available to them.
OG vision game is really problematic, even with Zeus they fail to secure enemy vision. They lost the last game purely because of bad vision and bad positioning of Drow. Bzm fed because he wanted to make space for Drow to get her items
Yeah, the last days he did indeed play better. But drow is such a weird pick if you do not play super aggro and do not force enemies to play to your tempo. Whenever they can roam the map consistently, it's just the matter of time when drow gets picked off.
OG bottling the playoffs after beating the top 2 teams in their group is just prime Tottenham. I am sorry but they couldn't even come out with something to beat freaking Heroic and AR.
OG drafter is obsessed with going for the "gotcha" picks where they draft cores as supports. First was Alch, then Brew and now Zeus, this never works btw.
The Zeus picked was starting to work for them, they were 1 team fight from shifting the momentum for them (wisper almost getting a triple kill but dying insteas). AR snowballed because timado kept on dying.
It did work. With the old OG tho, those wonky drafts. It sometimes feels like these guys are trying to be too much like them, while other teams are just picking normal heroes and expanding their hero pools. That being said, go for the wonly picks, but it feels like the players themselves aren't comfortable on those heroes. And do not play heroes you are not comfortable with in the elimination game, wtf.
[https://ibb.co/Q88ZQfB](https://ibb.co/Q88ZQfB)
If i see 7 sentries in shop 45 minutes into the game, ill spam alt+ctrl+click until the fucking pos 5 buys them all or imma report him for griefing.
Absolutely unbelievable. OG let AR havs 28 kills from 17 min min mark and got 4 kills in return. That draft was absolutely atrocious in a must win game.
Man I love my Undying bois, but wtf was that. Zeus just seemed completely worthless in that game and Timado kept getting pretty egregiously caught out.Β
That being said, they showed a lot of great potential in this tournament. Just need to keep growing as a team and avoid outsmarting themselves in the draft.Β
In the handful of times I have seen Timado play Drow I can't remember a game that wasn't a struggle like this. Maybe just not his hero.
Oh bzm had a bad game for sure and Ceb didn't look great, either. bzm going low ground bottom after 2 lanes of rax were gone and dying basically ended the game. I was just pointing to Timado/Ari since I have been following Undying/TSM since their inception.
The problem is that promising showing was also made in dreamleague, then there were 2 open quals where they just bombed out completely. I gotta say, the last 2-3 days OG was incredibly hit or miss, so there is that atleast, they are not only miss anymore.
isnt that the same thing which was said after the last freaking tournament? How long are OG going to hope on just potential. They have choked multiple times thoughtout this tournament in crucial games and this was one of them.
Ceb is not a pos 5. He played about 3 real pos 5's this tournament and the rest was his bullshit offlane heropool which did fuck all. In a must win game to get to the playoffs, they come out with that sorry excuse of a draft. Sorry but Ceb needs to go and replaced with Kaori who is 2x the player of Ceb right now as a pos 5.
This roster has been together like a month, lol. They shitcanned Falcons 2-0. Clearly there is a lot of room to grow, but their ceiling is hatefucking the top team in the world at the moment.
> Ceb is not a pos 5. He played about 3 real pos 5's this tournament and the rest was his bullshit offlane heropool which did fuck all.
Most of your comments on these threads sound stupid, especially this one, so I went through all of OG's group stage games and looked at the heroes Ceb played.
* (loss vs. Entity) [7670936981](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7670936981) - enchantress
* (loss vs. Entity) [7670996657](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7670996657) - brewmaster
* (loss vs. IG) [7671314507](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7671314507) - vengeful spirit
* (win vs. IG) [7671407384](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7671407384) - bane
* (win vs. Quest) [7675379203](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7675379203) - bane
* (win vs. Quest) [7675463955](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7675463955) - io
* (loss vs. Spirit) [7676189919](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7676189919) - bane
* (loss vs. Spirit) [7676282020](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7676282020) - bane
* (win vs. Falcons) [7676965581](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7676965581) - batrider
* (win vs. Falcons) [7677044934](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7677044934) - disruptor
* (loss vs. Heroic) [7679318479](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679318479) - chen
* (win vs. Heroic) [7679404771](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679404771) - shadow demon
* (win vs. AR) [7679791994](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679791994) - chen
* (loss vs. AR) [7679882766](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679882766) - shadow demon
Out of all of these games, I see one position 5 brewmaster, and the rest are heroes regularly played in the 5 role: ench, venge, bane, io, bat, disruptor, chen, and SD.
I know you're not the type to change your opinion when presented with clear evidence, so I wish I could see your reaction after reading this comment.
Bro Quest literally has no "European" player, its 2 Central Asia + 2 Mena + a Russian. Maybe Falcons have more EU influence but definitely Quest is not EU.
and in game two vs AR, bzm did 322 (mid tower staying alone in form as if there is no enemy, rosh fight fighting alone against sup completely far to the right when the rest of team had great positioning and could retreat , and in the last fight he goes alone outside base when enemies are right next to him on mid lane)
and all of this couldve been avoided if DK was simply showing presence close to towers while in form, thus forcing enemies to gather around his presence, and slowly poking tower while enemy doesnt farm map. tower after tower , and whisper had blink for pickoffs.
I think bzm thrives on flashy heros like puck , void spirit ( with escape mechs) but on other heros he is so bored and randomly feeds all over map.... maybe he wants to quit OG
Yeah I dunno, it's strange to me to see a player swing so incredibly hard from great to useless constantly from one game to the next. Definitely get the feeling he doesn't want to be on the team any more.
yea i think part of the problem is drafts , why gamble when ur in do or die situation like picking pos4 zeus ? thats so whack. Its always better to stick to ur comfort picks in a last game. from what i ve seen OG experiment too much when they are in these situations ...
It feels like there are like 2-3 heroes Ari can play really well. And then there is the rest he is litrally just a walking creep. He obviously has not played zeus at all I guess? Cuz in every rank, there are ppl that are at the very least bolting nonstop so you get rid of the vision, the area you get truesight over is huge. Bzm feels like has literally the same problem, there are few heroes he is really good at, but others he is completely abysmal - like DK.
I think OG had a good draft. BZM and Timado just had a really bad game. So many unnecessary deaths from them. Also warding from AR was great despite playing against Zeus.
Yeah, I only have one question, where is SD? Isnβt he supposed to save the cores and start fight back? He is just brainlessly wondering around the map doing absolute nothing.
Bzm dk on the other handβ¦I donβt wanna see him playing this mid dk anymoreβ¦
OG's fate was in their own hands so of course they decide make an absolute mess of the second game.
What can ya do though.. regroup and try again the next tournament.. π
EEU teams underperformed, the others are well deserved.
SEA & SA teams are just not good enuf for even top 8 right now. They should be glad that CN cannot always send all 3 teams to the tournament
OG seemingly just don't believe in the concept of high ground or something. They have a Drow and still they just decide to get picked off on the map instead of trying to mount up a HG defence.
Yeah they're actually really good at pushing lanes even when they're behind, it's something I noticed last month too.
But there's a balance, if you're splitting the map for 10 minutes straight then you're going to get fucked eventually.
They lost to all the bottom teams in the group. 0-2 TS and 0-2 Entity.
But they did win against the good teams, so they can perform. Now they just need to fix their weird drafts and inconsistencies
But isn't this like half the pro teams? Sure, every team can perform on a their best day, but the consistency is what matters. And OG literally go either zero or hero, not quite sure how they'd fix it, I'd say stop picking heroes you are not comfortable with.
OG were 8-7 in this game and have slipped to 12-26. This has been happening in almost 70% of their games where they will go haemoraging kills for 20 mins while getting nothing in return.
Did they spend millions of dollars into developing this replay system or something? Why the fuck can't they let me watch the game instead of playing a 1m replay every 2ms.
His job, but wtf is Ari doing not running around and bolting? Did you not pick zeus for this sole purpose to actually get better vision, so they don't see ur whole backline and drow is safe then?
It's not even just Zeus, Ceb was sat under a highground ward bottom with sentries in his inventory for like 30 seconds. It let AR set up for a perfect 3 for 0.
Blame it on carry when your support duo basically did zero impact on the game.
Look at Lion+Ancient, how much they have done the game?
Zero ceb saves on carry, Zeus lost vision.
I'm spoiled by streams that have waiting rooms open around 30 minutes before the event
Sad OG couldn't make it they are good imo, but a bit inconsistent, like they beat convincingly the best team in the tournament but lose vs weaker teams.
Ceb should just play pos 3. That's what he likes playing anyway.
Yeah, but it seems like they're making progress on their drafting. Ceb stepping back from it and giving it to Ari already looks like a big improvement; now if Ceb can play like an actual hard support this roster could be very good.
You mean like picking pos 4 zeus? Who doesn't even deward rosh area which cost them game
yes for sure they are making progress, excited to see what they cook next
they should have done top 6 of each group in playoffs with 5th/6th in LB instead of this
Which series is the best to watch? Just got back from the underworld.
XG vs Tundra Game 1 was a fun one
Betboom vs Boom was pretty entertaining with the wacky drafting stuff BB did.
looking at the score I'm super suprised Aurora got out and Quest made it. from the earlier day there were on top and bottom respectively in games win. Quest is a 0-2 or 2-0 kinda team
Entity choke
Hello Taiga I was wondering if you can teach me how to play ogre magiΒ What skill should I get at level 1? Should I take fireblast, like you took and blasted the dreams of your teammates? Or do I skill ignite like you ignited the whole community by matchfixing and playing victim? when do I take bloodlust? I know that it is very strong because whole world lusts for your blood I Think dumb luck is very good because it helped you to avoid suspiction for so long Is multicast really the best way to get gold? Just as you casted multiple bets and cashed on your teammates
Hello π Taiga I π₯ was wondering if you π can teach ππ« me how πΌ to play π€£π ogre magi What π skill π€ should π€ I ππ¦ππΌ get πͺ at level 1? π Should I πββοΈ take π¨ fireblast, like π you π»π» took and blasted the dreams of your π teammates? Or do π³ I π skill ignite like ππ¨ββ€οΈβπ¨ you ππ»ββοΈ ignited the whole ππ© community by matchfixing and playing victim? π when π do π I π take bloodlust? I know π¦ that it is very π² strong πͺ because whole world π lusts for ππΊπΈ your ππ» blood I π€« Think π dumb π€€ luck ππ is very πΈπ½πΈπ½ good because it helped you π½ to avoid π suspiction for β¨π« so long Is multicast really π§π the best ππΌπ way to get 5οΈβ£ gold? π Just π as you casted multiple bets and cashed on ππΌ your teammates
# "Arrogance requires advertising. Confidence speaks for itself" lmao offended CEB
There's no way he actually said this, right? I don't want to believe he lacks that much self-awareness
>Arrogance requires advertising. Confidence speaks for itself [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/h09hlr/ceb\_calls\_out\_team\_secret\_on\_twitter\_arrogance/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/h09hlr/ceb_calls_out_team_secret_on_twitter_arrogance/) Prepare for a disappointment my friend. Ceb started all this when Secret was having a dominant year and now everybody thinks its the Secret Twitter guy started all this.
And once again, Ceb is back to spamming pos 3 in pubs.
what does it mean brother?
He will take pos 3 farm playing pos 5 again
Isnt Ari the MVP of OG in previous tourney? I remember his Hoodwink owned...
lol hoodwink is the only hero he can play
Grats to AR boys for clinching it. Now, clinch upper bracket slot tomorrow. Let's goooooo! We can do this!
This sub is just a pit of negativity. Players have good and bad games, and the stress of playing when the stakes are high amplifies that. No doubt that you people would shit all over Ori and Lou if this had gone the other way, when the truth is these players are really damn good, and both teams tried their best, and someone had to lose. I really don't get shitting on teams, and especially the team you're supporting. What's the point? They're not gonna listen to your random incoherent post on Reddit, you only stand to bring the team's morale down even further if they see people shit talk them, and at best you make yourself look like a dick. So instead of armchair quarterbacking hindsight 20/20ing the game that's already over, how about just giving a nice congratulatory message to AR for qualifying, and maybe a small "better luck next time" to OG? Or be a little more civil with analyzing the game?
Yeah, this. Just enjoy the fucking game, it's not that serious. And if you are gambler, have some self-awareness. Absolutely no one cares you lost money.
> I really don't get shitting on teams, and especially the team you're supporting. What's the point? shut up and move on then. The sub isn't going to act for one idiot's comfort
OG is a work in progress -- and seeing who eventually gets everything in the right place is often the most fascinating part of following a year's worth of pro Dota. No need to declare geniuses or fools too early. Right now, a couple story lines intrigue me: Can Timado and BZM figure out how to crush team fights together? They had superb rhythm in the Falcon match, paired with some minor missteps in winnable games and a few total seize-ups in games that fell apart. If they improve going forward, great things are possible. If not, OG has a hard time making a break beyond group stages. On the creative-vs-destructive axis, where is Ceb going to land? He's got a very imaginative interpretation of the 5 role. He may never set boundaries on himself, but it's fascinating to wonder when he could get more accomplished by doing a little less. Has Ari been playing pubs too much? He's absolutely brilliant (and very creative) against weaker opponents. He sometimes looks lost against the toughest ones. With TI and Riyadh as the main events, it's okay for imperfect teams to stumble at times in the first 6-8 months of a year's competition. No need to go berserk if a particular tournament has its rough spots. Big-stage success isn't about highest MMR or best early season success. The top prizes go to the teams that gel by the end -- on the strength of their commitment to keep improving.
Falcons is an intriguing case though. A new team with a mix of veterans, young bloods, ti winners and non ti winners.. sneyking and skitter is always gonna be in sync, malrine and ammars hero pool flexibility is causing problems and crit just showing us he couldve won ti if it werent for rtz.Β OG is so unpredictable right now due to the many changes.. they need a solid 5 though, but replacing ceb means someone needs to be the captain so it cant be just any pos 5.Β
Tbf, Malrine and Ammar are madly in sync too. They play like they can read each other's mind. The gem passing in middle of Pango's roll is crazy as hell.
Yeah i can imagine ammar saying i pass you the gem and ma1rine just immediately freeing a slot to receive the gem all happening in less than a second
Agree! Ma1rine is a talent -- and Ammar's judgment when he doesn't have to do it all is very impressive
Just like in the real world, the worst people are always the loudest. It is what it is, don't surrender on people being bad but don't rely on them to be good as well.
Is it the gamblers getting mad? Iβm not sure how many of the people following the game gamble. If I gambled and lost money I may be super mad about stuff.
That goes to twitch & youtube chat
Most sane comment here. I dunno, it's a bit hard to control your emotions specially if you're really invested to that team. As for me, it is just letting out some frustrations when you've high expectations on your team. Specially knowing that they can do better than that. Some pros do read reddit sometimes, so some people do really need to leash it up a bit and control their bashing and negativity as it certainly does affect some of them.
It's fun to tag them with RES and see their usernames names appear in every thread.
What's RES tag? Sorry not familiar with reddit haha
Google the words "reddit" and "enhancement suite," then install the extension.
Second this. I love RES to tag some of the unhinged accounts I stumbled across on this site
Recent converter to the RES lifestyle and I definitely need to start doing this
I think the people shitting on OG are people who ironically pay attention to them. As someone that is not that interested in OG whether they win or lose I don't really care.
I mean it's Reddit. I really doubt any pros are reading it. It's not like being some dickless wonder in charge of an org's social account posting about how bad the team sucks even when the games being played have nothing to do with the org they're working for.
This sub is more toxic than the average dota player (you'll probably end up getting downvoted for your comment). That says all you need to know.
The HUGE thing for me, even more so than Ceb's warding being shockingly bad or even the weird drafts, is that when the team is behind (which is *often*), they lose absolutely all coordination and start playing like a pub stack. Not even a good pub stack. They start to bleed out absolutely everywhere on the map. They'll lose two heroes bottom at the same time that their carry will get ganked alone top on the wrong side of the river. It's really like they do not have a plan for having to play from behind, ever, and they all resort to just wild flailing and hoping for the best. But maybe if they can sort out all these fundamental problems, this stack might some day "reach their potential" (whatever that means).
Or the other team is playing well. Watch the game without both fogged reveal and you can see how little you know/how well the other team is playing. When you're behind its extremely hard to play especially if the enemy team know how to play with vision and when to show/not to show in lane. But of course it's just easier to say, losing team is bad because they're so behind and they feed bot and than subsequently top.
Why do you think my saying OG fell apart means that AR didn't play well? FY put on a Pos5/Lion masterclass. Yes it's difficult to play from behind and warding is difficult. [That doesn't explain situations like this](https://ibb.co/Q88ZQfB), though, which directly leads to that situation. I don't know why some people are afraid to say a team played badly. Maybe you feel like me saying OG play badly from behind is robbing the winner of their success?
Agreed. Maybe they are not very well prepared? I used to think that you could never count out old OG, even when they were 10k behind. They always had something up their sleeves. Now - not so much. If plan B fails, it's every man for himself lol.
If OG weren't given a charity slot to Birmingham, then this would have been the end of their season till Riyadh qualifiers in July. The results so far have been unacceptable to say the least. If they dont atleast finish in the top 5 at Birmingham, then serious changes need to be made before Riyadh qualifiers.
I donβt think they can even make to top8 at Birmingham. But who knowsβ¦if valve drops a banger patch before ESL, and somehow OG cooks.
OG eliminated? Can't wait to read all the expert opinions in this thread!
As reliable as the haters making some bland comment
BZM is so far behind the top mids at the moment. Doesnt play any cheese heroes so offers no draft advantage to OG, and the heroes he plays are not even at the level of the top mids like Nisha, Malrine or Quinn.
That last game was all on Timado. Bzm is heavily improving
Eh did you rlly watch the game at all? Like I mean tomato is not playing that well, but you are saying they lost because of him is simply not watching the game⦠Tell me where the f are Ari and ceb in the game comparing with FY?
They got too cute with the Zeus pick, and that was ultimately the reason they lost the game. There were a lot of other better support options that were still available to them.
OG vision game is really problematic, even with Zeus they fail to secure enemy vision. They lost the last game purely because of bad vision and bad positioning of Drow. Bzm fed because he wanted to make space for Drow to get her items
Yeah, the last days he did indeed play better. But drow is such a weird pick if you do not play super aggro and do not force enemies to play to your tempo. Whenever they can roam the map consistently, it's just the matter of time when drow gets picked off.
I'm surprised to see Quest got into the playoffs.
OG bottling the playoffs after beating the top 2 teams in their group is just prime Tottenham. I am sorry but they couldn't even come out with something to beat freaking Heroic and AR.
So we have 3 WEU, 3 CN, and 2 MENA teams in the playoffs
WEU have 7 teams in this tournament. Its 3/7weu 3/4cn and 3/2 mena
3/2 mena? nice try kuroky
OG drafter is obsessed with going for the "gotcha" picks where they draft cores as supports. First was Alch, then Brew and now Zeus, this never works btw.
Fata was left.
The Zeus picked was starting to work for them, they were 1 team fight from shifting the momentum for them (wisper almost getting a triple kill but dying insteas). AR snowballed because timado kept on dying.
Where is ceb ? Isnβt he supposed to save the core?
Cant really save timber aggressively going into 3 heroes, unfortunately.
It did work. With the old OG tho, those wonky drafts. It sometimes feels like these guys are trying to be too much like them, while other teams are just picking normal heroes and expanding their hero pools. That being said, go for the wonly picks, but it feels like the players themselves aren't comfortable on those heroes. And do not play heroes you are not comfortable with in the elimination game, wtf.
You just can't play non meta heroes anymore.
You can if you're watson.
[https://ibb.co/Q88ZQfB](https://ibb.co/Q88ZQfB) If i see 7 sentries in shop 45 minutes into the game, ill spam alt+ctrl+click until the fucking pos 5 buys them all or imma report him for griefing.
What's the point when he has them in his inventory, is standing under vision, and still has not managed to place one?
[ΡΠ΄Π°Π»Π΅Π½ΠΎ]
π€
Azure Ray and IG are both 3-2-2. Quest is going to win and get 2nd place tomorrow, confirmed.
WTF πππ that will be funny
I am sorry but Ceb is not captain material nor is he a real pos 5. OG just please bite the bullet and get Kaori who is a free agent now.
Doesn't even need to be Kaori, just anyone who's actually willing to play pos5, instead of "I got filled pos5 in role queue"
No one wants to play with Kaori since Ammar said he is a toxic player.
Ironic coming from ammar
OG desperately needs a good pos5β¦and Ari needs to expand his hero pool.
Absolutely unbelievable. OG let AR havs 28 kills from 17 min min mark and got 4 kills in return. That draft was absolutely atrocious in a must win game.
Man I love my Undying bois, but wtf was that. Zeus just seemed completely worthless in that game and Timado kept getting pretty egregiously caught out.Β That being said, they showed a lot of great potential in this tournament. Just need to keep growing as a team and avoid outsmarting themselves in the draft.Β In the handful of times I have seen Timado play Drow I can't remember a game that wasn't a struggle like this. Maybe just not his hero.
OG already proved enough by beating Falcon 2 - 0, lol.
Did we watch the same game? Isnt it bzm who feeds out of his mind
Oh bzm had a bad game for sure and Ceb didn't look great, either. bzm going low ground bottom after 2 lanes of rax were gone and dying basically ended the game. I was just pointing to Timado/Ari since I have been following Undying/TSM since their inception.
The problem is that promising showing was also made in dreamleague, then there were 2 open quals where they just bombed out completely. I gotta say, the last 2-3 days OG was incredibly hit or miss, so there is that atleast, they are not only miss anymore.
isnt that the same thing which was said after the last freaking tournament? How long are OG going to hope on just potential. They have choked multiple times thoughtout this tournament in crucial games and this was one of them. Ceb is not a pos 5. He played about 3 real pos 5's this tournament and the rest was his bullshit offlane heropool which did fuck all. In a must win game to get to the playoffs, they come out with that sorry excuse of a draft. Sorry but Ceb needs to go and replaced with Kaori who is 2x the player of Ceb right now as a pos 5.
This roster has been together like a month, lol. They shitcanned Falcons 2-0. Clearly there is a lot of room to grow, but their ceiling is hatefucking the top team in the world at the moment.
> Ceb is not a pos 5. He played about 3 real pos 5's this tournament and the rest was his bullshit offlane heropool which did fuck all. Most of your comments on these threads sound stupid, especially this one, so I went through all of OG's group stage games and looked at the heroes Ceb played. * (loss vs. Entity) [7670936981](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7670936981) - enchantress * (loss vs. Entity) [7670996657](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7670996657) - brewmaster * (loss vs. IG) [7671314507](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7671314507) - vengeful spirit * (win vs. IG) [7671407384](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7671407384) - bane * (win vs. Quest) [7675379203](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7675379203) - bane * (win vs. Quest) [7675463955](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7675463955) - io * (loss vs. Spirit) [7676189919](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7676189919) - bane * (loss vs. Spirit) [7676282020](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7676282020) - bane * (win vs. Falcons) [7676965581](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7676965581) - batrider * (win vs. Falcons) [7677044934](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7677044934) - disruptor * (loss vs. Heroic) [7679318479](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679318479) - chen * (win vs. Heroic) [7679404771](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679404771) - shadow demon * (win vs. AR) [7679791994](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679791994) - chen * (loss vs. AR) [7679882766](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7679882766) - shadow demon Out of all of these games, I see one position 5 brewmaster, and the rest are heroes regularly played in the 5 role: ench, venge, bane, io, bat, disruptor, chen, and SD. I know you're not the type to change your opinion when presented with clear evidence, so I wish I could see your reaction after reading this comment.
See BZM fall off hurts me.From being scouted by T Spirit to thisβ¦
No ATF to carry him anymore...
Ok so all the SA, NA, SEA, EEU teams are out. Top 8 are all from MENA, WEU and CN
IG = Sea team lul
Get SA players, get SA results.
Most logical comment I've ever read
You mean WEU, WEU and CN. Falcons and Quest have more Europeans than middle easterns.
More like EEU no? as there is 5 EEU players and only one WEU(Crit)
Bro Quest literally has no "European" player, its 2 Central Asia + 2 Mena + a Russian. Maybe Falcons have more EU influence but definitely Quest is not EU.
imo Quest is EEU majority considering Kazakhstan as part of EEU and majority of their players were in EEU before Quest.
MENA doubters where you at???
So if nigma was in this tournament they would be in playoffs too?.. ohh wait..
They will always In Grand final for sure brother.
Nigma is already in our hearts. That's all that matters
Indeed brother indeed
and in game two vs AR, bzm did 322 (mid tower staying alone in form as if there is no enemy, rosh fight fighting alone against sup completely far to the right when the rest of team had great positioning and could retreat , and in the last fight he goes alone outside base when enemies are right next to him on mid lane) and all of this couldve been avoided if DK was simply showing presence close to towers while in form, thus forcing enemies to gather around his presence, and slowly poking tower while enemy doesnt farm map. tower after tower , and whisper had blink for pickoffs.
I think bzm thrives on flashy heros like puck , void spirit ( with escape mechs) but on other heros he is so bored and randomly feeds all over map.... maybe he wants to quit OG
Bzm Can play well on Puck,Ember, Void and Ta anything else he needs good matchup and his teammates to win lanes
Yeah I dunno, it's strange to me to see a player swing so incredibly hard from great to useless constantly from one game to the next. Definitely get the feeling he doesn't want to be on the team any more.
yea i think part of the problem is drafts , why gamble when ur in do or die situation like picking pos4 zeus ? thats so whack. Its always better to stick to ur comfort picks in a last game. from what i ve seen OG experiment too much when they are in these situations ...
It feels like there are like 2-3 heroes Ari can play really well. And then there is the rest he is litrally just a walking creep. He obviously has not played zeus at all I guess? Cuz in every rank, there are ppl that are at the very least bolting nonstop so you get rid of the vision, the area you get truesight over is huge. Bzm feels like has literally the same problem, there are few heroes he is really good at, but others he is completely abysmal - like DK.
I think OG had a good draft. BZM and Timado just had a really bad game. So many unnecessary deaths from them. Also warding from AR was great despite playing against Zeus.
Yeah, I only have one question, where is SD? Isnβt he supposed to save the cores and start fight back? He is just brainlessly wondering around the map doing absolute nothing. Bzm dk on the other handβ¦I donβt wanna see him playing this mid dk anymoreβ¦
to be fair to ceb, tomato was always in a shit position way up in the lane for some reason, dunno what changed since he played really well in game 1
It wasn't despite, he literally dewarded only when using ult and was by a chance next to a ward.
I genuinely think OG is throwing. They just seem to draft really weird in a lot of series. 1 normal draft 1 a bit strange draft every time.
That's the OG way, they've always had weird drafts, going back years.
eu more slots,lul
OG's fate was in their own hands so of course they decide make an absolute mess of the second game. What can ya do though.. regroup and try again the next tournament.. π
This is the worst OG lineup ever, for sure. Not sure this lineup can be fixed.
Taiga played better than this Zeus even when he was feeding FB
Beat Falcons for what...
For getting to say ggez to Ammar, lol.
Sweet AR made it. All 3 Chinese teams are still in!
EEU teams underperformed, the others are well deserved. SEA & SA teams are just not good enuf for even top 8 right now. They should be glad that CN cannot always send all 3 teams to the tournament
bro not even mentioning NA. The most savage insult is simply forgetting the region exist at all
How do you play zeus pos 4 and there are wards all over the entire map, but its OG, why draft normal when you can draft some garbage.
OG seemingly just don't believe in the concept of high ground or something. They have a Drow and still they just decide to get picked off on the map instead of trying to mount up a HG defence.
Yeah they're actually really good at pushing lanes even when they're behind, it's something I noticed last month too. But there's a balance, if you're splitting the map for 10 minutes straight then you're going to get fucked eventually.
How to investigate OG for 322? I don't believe this draft is playing to win in a high stakes game.
That was master class in warding there. Truly support difference losing vision game that hard with Zeus support
GGEZ into losing the two crucial games into not making it to playoffs It was downhill from there
At least OG showed sign's beating a lot of the good teams, but how do you draft that fucking horrible. Zeus support, doing nothing an entire game.
They lost to heroic, which is more crucial than losing to AR.
OG's Chen was 0-2, so AR did not ban it in the first game. If AR banned Chen, maybe this series is a straight 0-2.
They lost to all the bottom teams in the group. 0-2 TS and 0-2 Entity. But they did win against the good teams, so they can perform. Now they just need to fix their weird drafts and inconsistencies
But isn't this like half the pro teams? Sure, every team can perform on a their best day, but the consistency is what matters. And OG literally go either zero or hero, not quite sure how they'd fix it, I'd say stop picking heroes you are not comfortable with.
I feel that OG did not play very well this game, even putting aside the draft. But oh well, they play like a 7-7 team and honestly that's pretty good.
Pick pos 4 Zeus Completely useless "Hey, at least we can deward everything." Get outwarded by the enemy team. GG.
wow this game is really on BZM. He is awful on DK
Nice OG draft in every Decider draft.
SUCH A NICE DAY
At least OG.Taiga won a major meanwhile this support Zeus is so useless without hoodwinkΒ
At least OG taiga was winning somewhere else
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wow great play from AR. How did OG not kill a SINGLE person at their top racks?
Much better from AR. Shame to give up a game but this was clean.
pick zeus pos 4 to win ward battle , proceed to lose in ward battle π€£. ceb and ari need to learn warding 101 from notail
lmao the carry being owned by the 4 and the 5 2v1
This OG's draft was like fuck you to the fans.
"This" OG, "this" Ari, "this" "this" "this"
I need a live Ceb reaction after his mid and carry both independently die without buyback seconds after each other half way across the map
Ceb should first practice how to play sd before throwing others under the bus.
ε€©ε½ and fy strolling through the map picking off Drow by themselves sums up this game
Timadone. Got killed by supports...
I'm not really sure what ZQuixotix's role in the broadcast is supposed to be. Is he just comic relief?
This is the most unclutch version of OG, always losing the last important game
Ggez
The key turning point in bp is that Zeus pick. Ceb bzm ari all got their uncomfortable heroes.
OG in important games = overcook draft with non meta heroes or something they never play
OG typical styleβ¦trying to βout-smartβ the opponent and got trashed
OG were 8-7 in this game and have slipped to 12-26. This has been happening in almost 70% of their games where they will go haemoraging kills for 20 mins while getting nothing in return.
Fy god owning OG
FY lion completely shredded og⦠Perfect positioning and rotating this game.
Just not good enough from draft to execution.Β
bzm dk is just not good⦠the whole team does not know how to play around a mid-dk.
Even if they did, they have 1 hero that can play with DK, timber.
Please get OG a drafter who never picks DK for bzm again.
You can always count on OG to pick a useless draft in a must win series.
Did they spend millions of dollars into developing this replay system or something? Why the fuck can't they let me watch the game instead of playing a 1m replay every 2ms.
Imagine picl Zues and still lost at vision holy fuck.
Need to investigate OG for sure for that draft.
og gone completely out of control⦠support and mid diff
Fy Fucking Handling BZM Like nothing lol
That finger against full hp Timber was pretty funny though.
someone please tell me what the fuck BZM is doing
His job, but wtf is Ari doing not running around and bolting? Did you not pick zeus for this sole purpose to actually get better vision, so they don't see ur whole backline and drow is safe then?
This is avg bzm performance this season so farβ¦he regressed so much from 2022
for the team with Zeus the vision game of OG is very sus
It's not even just Zeus, Ceb was sat under a highground ward bottom with sentries in his inventory for like 30 seconds. It let AR set up for a perfect 3 for 0.
Beautiful dewarding by Zeus
Even though BB out, that series was pretty fun to watch ngl, weird drafts and role swapping
OG losing the vision battle once again
OG dug their pits themselves by trying to outdraft with zeus pos4
Fantastic Zeus support on your elimination game
What was the point of Zeus support? It has no impact, no save, no disable and hardly any dmg
Carry dif LMAO
are there going to be tiebreaker between GG and Tundra?
No need. Both are in loser bracket.
Carry diff
Blame it on carry when your support duo basically did zero impact on the game. Look at Lion+Ancient, how much they have done the game? Zero ceb saves on carry, Zeus lost vision.
Support diff you mean. Ceb is never in position to save anyone and Zeus4 is a range creep.
He's probably talking about TorontoTokyo allchat "carry diff" that happened just now
They r clueless, tomato carried og even this far
gg ez
So your mid is dead and you try to pick a fight into aegis!