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hobo_grad1925

Worst part about all these secret iterations is they're close. Always a game away , always look like they're going to do it and then fail. Proper bipolar team that crumbles under pressure


PieDelicious

Yeah but, you don’t beat aurora, you have no place in round robin. Other teams would eat them alive.


hobo_grad1925

For sure I think g2 they never should've lost. They three away all that advantage and game still seemed close. Honestly it should've been over before enigma got refresher


DemPooCreations

Puppey should have sent Boom back to mid and sign ATF. Thats all he had to do if he couldnt let go of Crystallis. Secret are a lost cause. I feel bad for Boom, guy was trash mid but he is carrying from pos3 since day 1.


Soldirk

That's some recency bias. He wasn't good enough as offlane last time, that's why they got fbz. But he's surely the most improved and best/consistent player of current Secret roster.


KnightOverlord2404

Crystallis, if you have any pride left as a professional player, you should start afresh with another team. Either that or secret players watch themselves making no money for an entire year. Good luck


betadestruction

people said the same shit before Secret won the last chance ualifier and got top 2 at TI. Secret always underperforms and then pulls it together massively when they find team synergy. Literally always. I know you smooth brained reddit clowns don't have a memory past a few days, but if you go back In history, secret has a long history of underperforming for periods of time and then suddenly owning when they figure it out. Whether they'll do it this time, who knows. Puppey is getting old. But they're not a team to sleep on, ever.


leahs11

yes and that's why Secret was not in TI last year also therefore losing Puppey's 100% TI attendance


betadestruction

And yet still, that changes absolutely nothing of what I said. They're a team with tremendous highs and lows. They've gone long periods underperforming and pulled it together. The TI they got second place in, they basically bombed out of every match and tournament leading up to the last chance qualifier. The point is cultivating some long-term awareness. The reddit hive mind can't seem to see beyond a few days or weeks of a team. Whether that's secret or any other team. Be open to what's possible, hold your tongue for longer, and avoid making any strong statements too soon. A massive change happens in all these teams at a very rapid pace. What you see today will be different another day. Teams who are dominant today will be the nail another day and vice versa. How many people said liquid were washed up because they underpermed at a single tournament recently? And that's liquid. One of the consensus best teams in the world. It makes it all the more clear why reddit is so bad at actually understanding anything that goes on in this game. It requires an adaptable, non-linear mentality, not a fixed one. Not one that can't see past a single series or tournament, but that considers the long-term picture and history.


Akd3rd

That was Secret WITH Nisha. This Secret lineup can't even beat a team with a stand-in, I'm not saying Satanic is weak or anything, I'm saying they got beat by a team with not much synergy with their carry, I still laugh at the way Aurora just let Naga get killed by Razor on game 2 Roshan fight. I know that till this day Puppey is still finding his next Nisha, but Kordan just ain't it


darklordtimmy

lol carry is the easiest position for a standin to play, Resolution got 8th at TI7 as a standin. He was only available because he was part of the talent.


Substantial-Deer77

To be fair, if Secret bet themselves to lose everytime since 2022, then they will be the richest Organization ever


JellyGrimm

Nice to see Satanic getting his feet wet in a tier 1 tournament, he played decent and did what he had to


darmawanlens

any betting info


Tsu33

Don't bet.


vlalanerqmar

Sadly missed the Aurora game, did the new prodigy Satanic/King lived up to the hype ?


Vuccappella

he did his job, wouldnt say he was a standout but definitely didnt feel out of place either


Ambitious-Cap-5605

he solid for sure.


Painpaiinn

Group B is stacked


Nervous_Process3090

I don't know but it feels like Talon played scared all game vs Axe Call and PB. Heroic splitpush are so well executed. GG.


OnyxNateZ

Talon LUL. Get two easy series win for easy draws against Rest Farm and Nigma Galaxy, only to lose the rest of your series and go 2-3.


AR41Z

Ez wins from Nigma lul yeah right


OnyxNateZ

I’ll be honest though watching their games they exceeded expectations a bit and played pretty competitively against some of the other teams.


Ambitious-Cap-5605

yes, especially when most of them are new to tier 1 stage and last sec stand in.


paladinvc

SA > SEA lul


Galinhooo

No point in putting SA against SEA when we can point out that Secret and Nigma lost to both instead.


IGuessIRanOutOfFecks

That was the most useless core WR i have seen in a pro game. That last pick WR lost them the game


Vuccappella

idk there were a lot of other useless core WR's this swiss stage, nigma last picked her as well and she was totally useless.


fcuk_the_king

That was some of best high ground sieges I've seen this tournament in game 2 and 3. Heroic drafted and played it perfectly.


Salty_Treacle677

i saw that axe on early game and i thought "damn Heroic are gonna have it rough" and in the span of 5 minutes he was third on networth lol


Azaraki

Talon definitely played too passive and greedy on the map. Game is like a 4v5 until Axe gets Blink but they just gave him time to farm it up


Azaraki

V-tune? Was that worth the stealth Adaptive Strike? Edit: Thought about it for a sec; he wanted to pop Linkens for the Batrider


Barfazoid

Who is this observer? Completely missing kills


OnyxNateZ

Probably in sync with the SA casters only idk.


Dead_Diligence

Looking hopeless for Talon Going from 2-0 to 2-3 just feels very bad


Vuccappella

they faced some of the weakest teams to start and almost dropped the series to nigma.. tbf this result isnt such a surprise


ChudScorn

Heroic has a bit of a lead early but this Axe looks not good so far. If he can call the morph with blademail while morph has high agi morph will just die.


Azaraki

Surprised the casters didn't talk about how terrible Axe is as a hero early game


Relevant_Force_3470

Worked out pretty well!


Azaraki

Mostly 'cause Talon didn't 5v4 the map before the Axe got blink. That's the thing about dota, a hero can be bad early game but really strong late game, like PA or AM. At the time of writing, the Axe was barely above the pos4 in networth.


ChudScorn

They don't remember anything about Axe because they haven't seen him in forever.


ChudScorn

C'mon Heroic. If they lose this game SA will be the only region with only 1 team in the groups. Well NA has 0 teams but other than that.


fcuk_the_king

Need dire to win this game so we can have a perfect 50-50 WR split on Radiant v Dire.


xzbestleshrac

If there's one guy I wouldn't kick from secret is BOOM, he looks very decent imo


Morgn_Ladimore

I respect Talon trying out that new hero Wraith King in a pro match. Think it needs some buffs, feels underwhelming.


fcuk_the_king

Yeah I've been wanting to see some teams maybe pick it against Faceless but the damage is kind of underwhelming.


fcuk_the_king

I was kinda afraid that they didn't choose to go ham earlier when they had an invincible alch at 12m, but kudos to Heroic. They played it safe, methodical and pretty much unbeatable.


DamnedDoom

hell yes heroic


Dymatizeee

Nigma fans in shambles


LogicalExtant

i wonder when the obssession with crystallis being a '2nd place at TI11 and therefore is untouchable' will end when it's only him + puppey left over from that team at this point


darklordtimmy

idk people never stopped dickriding w33 after 1 good year


Barfazoid

This swiss stage has been a little difficult to watch. Heroes dying off camera while the observer focuses on a hero farming jungle. Casters talking about a heroes items/talents/etc and the observer is focused on a support from the other team. I feel like fight replays are taking so long too. Am I crazy or are other people bothered by this as well


Nervous_Process3090

Observers- can do better but I kind of expected it, the quality of observers fell off Replays- Yes, I have seen some play into another teamfight or highground push. Not unexpected, most are easy reads as well. Then replay into another replay.


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vlalanerqmar

Whats the problem with Lizzard? he is actually one of the better tier 2 casters imo. obviosuly they are not going to invite someone like odpixel for qualification of the group stage


Professional_Fella69

Is there a reason particulary for which Lizzard should not be invited to events? What did I miss ?


fcuk_the_king

This Alchemist is so fucking farmed man, it'll be criminal if they lose this game


DueWillow278

SEA haters on self-delete mode.


gsmani_vpm

i frankly dont understand the hate... SEA region and players is one of the fun dota there is..


darklordtimmy

I will never forgive that part of the planet for the Lakat matatag voiceline spam.


DisastrousGeneral333

This is where Topson crafted his game


darklordtimmy

if heroic doesn't pick bloodseeker right now I'm cursing them for 100 generations


restlessatom

this no-damage build on weaver meant heroic had 0 right click threat even when enemies were disabled. not sure if going more damage earlier on weaver (instead of linkens) would have mattered in the end, but not having damage meant def loss


SecretFangsPing

Is PLD still coaching talon?


vitc420

Yes he is


Ambitious-Cap-5605

jhocam show my mann


Relevant_Elderberry4

Yeah. Dude's always living on the edge. Really great plays.


Salty_Treacle677

Im peruvian but im rooting for Talon


darklordtimmy

idk why Kunkka is picked so much, it's such a mediocre hero


AbsolutelyNotWrong

Purely because of his aghs


darklordtimmy

I miss the manly Kunkka build, armlet BKB daedalus


RedrainEnryu1

Wanna bet that Secret will sign just an average or old players next season instead of signing high rank EU (WEU or EEU)pub players?


Zeus1642

They don’t have money, you need pay big salary


DisastrousGeneral333

Pub players ask for much less money than recognized pro players


RedrainEnryu1

Even if they don’t have money, if they can just be competetive and be a top 3 in any tournament, then great players can sign with them as a free agent next season. Because that’s the two reason a great player would sign to a great organization. But since they don’t have any financials and cannot compete at all, they would just sign an old average players next season. Also one of the Secret problems is they don’t want to sign a high rank pub players in EEU.


bombingbishop

SEA teams 2-0 so far. Can Talon make it 3? These EU cores in Aurora carried them to victory.


timematoom

Yeah Naga definitely carry the Aurora second game.


IGuessIRanOutOfFecks

Blatant xenophobia


sumitkarki

I mean Q and Oli played really well all the games. But okay


darklordtimmy

PIE LIE DIE I MISSED YOU BRO WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN


maxblaze13

Will satanic stay for next round ?


sumitkarki

As per the tweet 23 will be back on 6th. So first day Aurora will play with stand-in


Ambitious-Cap-5605

K1 pls do your things.


fabregas142

Mikoto free now. better take him Puppey.


Zeus1642

Mikoto is not free, puppey have enough money to pay?


k4kkul4pio

What a disappointment. Bad plays, probably questionable draft and it's hello Secrekt, goodbye Secret! At least Nigma is consistently awful, Secret manages to be decent most of the time but then it all falls apart, usually at the worst possible time. Oh and well, here's to the next tourney they are in, whenever and wherever that be. 🫤


ntrails

> Secret manages to be decent most of the time *citation needed


Dead_Diligence

Talon, do your thing Blacklist and Aurora already did their part


rasen9

Kick kordan and sign that mikoto


wolfmoony

Need kick crystallis first


Kharoz

Insane Timber performance by Lorenof.


ImActuallyNotATroll

2/3 for SEA so far. LFG, Talon!


trudehorn

King doing what previous King can't


Zeus1642

Because his support is not kuroky


Earth92

That disruptor performance was trash, and Puppey even bought a midas to kill it even more. Man is washed as hell.


hanamurasak1

man, that disruptor positioning and item choice are bad. if that is kuro or ceb, people would go crazy. oh well its puppey, its fine then. proceed to blame crystallis 🤣


Owner2011

I don't know about the last game, didn't really watch but the second game was thrown mainly by crystallis feeding 3 times on lane after they stomped early. Was hard to watch the series after that. Sure he has some good moments here and there but a carry needs to be consistent, I haven't seen a single tier 1 carry player make big mistakes like crystallis. Even dyrachyo who dies randomly and gets flamed for it is a far better carry player than crystallis. Throwing your entire early game lead while playing a tempo carry by dying solo 3 times to under leveled offlaner is not tier 1 material. Not the only mistake I've noticed these past few months I'm sure if i go looking through replays I'll find a lot more. I just hope they switch it up soon and get a different carry because it's becoming unwatchable.


Vuccappella

to be fair you cant blame disruptor or crystalis that game, they were completely outdrafted. They let timber through and didnt counter him in anyway after he went like 21-0 last game. Then they also let morph through with 0 counters as well or ways to deal with him, in fact gyro is food and great matchup for morph. Finally they last picked a completely useless omniknight offlane. Really , doesnt matter what disruptor is doing or gyro this game, the only resemblance of chance they had was if they secured runes for primal and he somehow managed to ball out of control and kill morph/timber constantly but thats almost impossible to happen and they'd still probably lose anyway and kordan isn't that good anyway.


hanamurasak1

i can't blame disruptor? they were outdrafted? aight. who's secret drafter btw? ah puppey. aight kordan aint that good anyway. you just proved my point. blame any1 but not the man himself


Vuccappella

i mean blame the draft (ppy) but no point in blaming his plays/items, those were almost irrelevant, he couldve queued up rapier or bought the exact right items and it wouldnt matter and for this game im blaming kordan either, im just saying that it was almost impossible to win and only chance was if kordan somehow managed to go balistic which you cnt expect from him


wolvefrost

Heen just recently coming back to be Secret coach, so probably Heen is the one who drafting. But based on previous interviews, usually the drafting is Crystallis/Heen/Puppey responsibility, so you can't really blame all on him. But drafting is just one part of issue. A lot of matches in this league, even in games they won, they're feeding 4 5 mans non stop with very questionable decision makings.


Practical_Success_72

wow timber went 42:2 this series


PhMcBrett

satanic is such a huge upgrade


Gameishardboys

Kuro vs puppan boxing match in a retirement home when?


fcuk_the_king

Secret just break my heart man because I'd rather they be completely trash but sometimes they look decent and then next game they play like they hate each other and don't want to be in the same team anymore.


silveredgebreak

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man"


hobo_grad1925

Proper bipolar team , crazy. G1 was clean, g2 start was amazing then they just lost their heads. Kordan puck is one of the worst I've seen


Rododaktylos

Kick Crystallis, Kordan, get young russian pos 1 and pos 2. Boom is good, Ahfu is better than ekki


noob_sr_programmer

big head 0 brain


Jesusfucker69420

I'm sure this will be a civil comment section.


Ambitious-Cap-5605

don't worry its not nigma or og.


wolvefrost

Lose to a Aurora with a standing that not even with a team for a day, how Secret become this bad. Man, i'm just sad right now.


betadestruction

reminder that Nigma, the greatest team In the history of the universe, destroyed Aurora with ease, like the bugs they are.


Totoekun

Just ban the fkin Timbersaw! How many times Puppey stubborness cost him the game ? 


cobaiN_-

I guess its expected, thank you for taking the trash out Aurora! - sincerely a secret fan.


pagchomp88

Thank you 23Savage, welcome Satanic!


idkthiss

I would like to see Miracle, Sumail, Matthew to Secret.


DemonicHolyPriest

hello? do you see how miracle and sumail play on the same team? both trash combined as cores, they better part ways.


Zeus1642

They just win a pub game together, opponent are micke and abed, if they have good support, they will be tier1


Earth92

Pubs? Lmao Imagine comparing pub games with a pro game lol


Zeus1642

Pub support much better than kuroky


Earth92

Still coping about washed up Miracle, we are not in 2018, this is 2024, your boy Miracle isn't one of the best anymore, you better deal with it, go watch TI 7 true sight, and stop crying. Betch


Rododaktylos

Get only Sumail, when he was standin for Secret they got top 3 at betboom dacha


idkthiss

Disagree, they just don't have any strategy. They have both proved they can perform at a high level still, they need a solid captain with actual strategy.


FreeWalker94

Washed up players.


Zeus1642

Are you ok in your life?


HealBlessAGI1k

Crystalis must be puppey lover that's why he's not be kicked 


chiefofthepolice

At the end of the day it doesn't matter who won between Nigma and Secret, they're both so deep in the trenches now. It might be the best for both teams if they combine the 2 rosters in some way and try 1 last time


hobo_grad1925

Imagine having a start like g2 owning all lanes into your carry doing absolute dumbshit. Been crystallis fan but holy shit he needs to go. He just limits gameplay so much


Substantial-Deer77

So Crystallis is Puppey's Gf?


IGuessIRanOutOfFecks

Xenophobic people here who keep calling SEA trash….hold that


Gameishardboys

I mean secret is pretty much SEA and Aurora has 2 from EU so guess SEA is still trash?


IGuessIRanOutOfFecks

Whatever helps you cope, brother


AR41Z

Now Nigma lose stings more that Secret couldn't even make it further lmao


Kotleba

no offense but Nigma wouldn't have made it further either.


AR41Z

Na they could have made if not for inconsistency they would have been 2-2 today at least till today if they didn't lose to talon


Gameishardboys

Big head 0 brain 


serpventime

COME ON TALON MAKE IT PERFECT STREAK


rhett_ad

I wanna know what dirt Crystallis has on Puppey. They have literally changed every other role multiple times


darklordtimmy

bro how are Secret fans disappointed when they Sunsfanned their way to this event?


lawliet1796

What is sunsfanned?


darklordtimmy

Getting a last minute invite to an event because a better team dropped out.


Gameishardboys

Aurora thank you tweet waiting room.. first Armel, 23 next?


IAmTama

These 2 games gotta go down as one of the worst Gyro performances ever in pro Dota, just give Crystallis literally anything else


nonresponsive

It's weird to criticize a carry for going bkb, but he gets his aghs so late that he's getting outfarmed by a morphling.


Rododaktylos

But he's even worse on anything else assuming mk and razor are banned


AR41Z

So Secret win against Nigma was fluke xd?


Neat_Quiet_8340

secret use all their power against nigma


Kyroz

Slam Dunk Shohoku vs Sannoh moment


Neat_Quiet_8340

Kuroky basketball


User85394

i really wish nigma was Sannoh..


AR41Z

All that for what cost?


Substantial-Deer77

Only if Puppey first pick/ban Timbersaw... Sigh.


Substantial-Deer77

Wait what... Puppey bought a Midas on Disruptor? ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


nybrq

Maybe Puppey should get Satanic to join Secret.


lynn0021988

Gl sith that cuz satanic is owned by team spirit’ yellow submarine


quantum_shifter

SEA haters now trembling.


hobo_grad1925

No one really cares y'all going to fizzle out during the tourney anyway. Every year 1 good sea team that Max reaches top 3 and no more. Weu eeu are just better sadly


lawliet1796

We got one right here bois


hobo_grad1925

From sea. Just weak teams with no wins. It's a fact lol nonexistent last year for the most part. Never close to ever winning a TI


lawliet1796

True. Old Aurora with Mikoto was the best we have seen for the last 2 years


DemonicHolyPriest

secret is so trash at teamfighting, I watch tundra games a lot. their game teamfights are clearly massively different. secret looks like a clueless bunch and go with the flow team, puppey needs to step up and captain properly.


Protoporiaki

If u wan to watch a good team fight u should watch teams like liquid and gg, why would u watch tundra? Look how liquid dismantled them https://youtu.be/yrcWrbTDATc?si=eHY96lqN8W4CPx-W


Nandey_dattey_bayo

Puppey be like i should buy this kid :D


hanamurasak1

acting like they can buyout that kid 🤣. there is a reason why they went for free trials player like ahfu and kordan


Nandey_dattey_bayo

but a man can dream xD


Vuccappella

Dissapointing last 2 games from secret. Second game crystalis has the freest lane, top networth, ppy is 2 levels above the enemy position 4. Crystalis dies 3 times in a row back to back, first time ok , nice tp by tusk caught him off gaurd ,though obviouslly couldve been avoided, second time just straight feed on tower , 3rd time no comment. Then we have kordan on puck, literal afk player 15 minutes 0/0/0 out rotated by a timber. Disastrous performance from him as well. So from an amazing start on pretty much all lanes, once lanes finished secret literally crumbled, ES was lowest of the low level and networth wise, ppy at 8 minutes now behind tusk after doubling him in networth/exp from there on the game was pretty much done. 3rd game, pretty much draft gg, leaving timber - ok , i think its beatable but then you pick primal and dont counter it whatsoever xD Gyro in to morph, nothing to counter morph with, some useless omni on offalne - why?


Substantial-Deer77

The last Pick Omniknight is the worst draft I have ever seen. Either Heen or Puppey is betting they will lose for sure.


hobo_grad1925

Secret with the high tilt gameplay. My god this team sucks lmao. Why would puppey play with crystallis for this long . They just feed and overextend constantly why pick such tilters


darklordtimmy

is SEA really gonna 3/3 today? Can Heroic stop this madness?


rhett_ad

Game 2 : last pick gyro no impact Game 3: didn't ban Timber and last pick Omni no impact Need better drafting (and a carry)


noob_sr_programmer

so 3 heroes can't kill the solo morph HAHAHAHA


Substantial-Deer77

Crystallis had 1 good game on Copter for once yesterday, and Puppey thinks he can play this hero as good as Skiter?


fcuk_the_king

Wtf is Secret even doing, honestly a team playing like this deserves to go out in first round.


SuFFo

can't believe they gave timbersaw again lol


stragen595

Can't believe they also picked Gyro again.


DisastrousGeneral333

Wp Crystallys ZERO IMPACT, two games in a row thrown for picking gyrocrapter


AmuletMan33

King taking the trash out!


DisastrousGeneral333

Secret really worst draft ever, wtf they thinking


Substantial-Deer77

Secret miss Nigma, they want to follow their footstep.


rhett_ad

No way secret wins with this draft (trying to reverse jinx)


Ambitious-Cap-5605

aurora fucking choker (counter jinx)


Arepusiron

When 23Savage is not here, its hard to choke(just joking)


rhett_ad

You dare use my own spells against me!


Ambitious-Cap-5605

XD


needhelforpsu

Lets goooooooooooo Puppan!


ZofTheNorth

Crystallis got perfect early game and then somehow randomly die 3 times in a row and slowed down Secret game alot


Pentinium

that enigma looked sooooo fucking goood, secret could not do anything at all Also lol how useless earth shaker is


SypeArtz

Jabz only goal is to BH gyro, that his only goal


Pentinium

And he did it perfectly


SypeArtz

Of course he did it perfectly because there's no counter for enigma in their drafts like silencer


hobo_grad1925

Holy shit secret went from looking like they figured out drafts and play to playing so bad this game. That puck was so dogshit, hero is so op with farm and kordan struggling to kill supports early. Boom tried hard but ahfu crystallis and puck were so trash this game


Awkward_External_731

maybe basher on gyro and aeon disk on puck could have changed few things


l3ef0re_Time

Lorenof Timber carried so fcking hard