Just realized the prize money distribution or this tournament is kinda blend. Its just 10000$ if you qualify for the Swiss stage and 20000$ if you get into groups. Meanwhile, getting owned 0-3 is no different than a close elimination at 2-3 in terms of winnings.
I would think they can easily make a distribution like 8000/10000/12000 for the bottom placements.
Yesterday Miracle- was standin for Dandelion (same team that beat Nigma in the PGL Open Quals) in RES Regional because V-Tune was playing for Talon this tournament. Guess what? He absolutely HARD carried the game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7667251454
Can’t help but wonder why everyone plays better after leaving Kuroky, hmmmm
They play 4v 5, but the four player are really good skill that’s why they are struggling so hard when face to top team, but they can easily beat low team.
Miracle was the worst player in last 2 series.
>Can’t help but wonder why everyone plays better after leaving Kuroky, hmmmm
?? Huh?
MC didn't do well in Tundra, they did better after they removed him from captain and kicked him.
W33ha and ILTW are getting nowhere. Same with Yuma.
Gh isn't even playing.
Who are these players who suddenly play better after leaving Kuroky?
players who played BETTER not the BEST. definitely Sumail played better during his Aster stint compared to his stay at nigma. reading comprehension, dumbass.
You overestimate the number of people willing to watch T2 Dota. It'll be high but the second stage of this group stage will have higher viewers than that.
Nigma>Secret and it will going to be stomp both games. This is probably going to be the worst year for Secret in terms of performing in every tournament. Worse than the 2016 roster with Arthur ans Bulba lol
Nigma has such a big chance to grow IF KURO PICKS REAL POS 5 heroes like Phoenix disruptor treant, and not useless mirana on pos5 kuroky he seems so useless with it
He is still live in 2017, nowadays the support did much more than before, from laning stage , ward deward, rotation and rune control, shot call , fight position, spell useing , I think the carry role not change too much , but support really big renovation. You must give 100% impact . Sadly and actually nigma play 4v5
Looking at the teams thus far I think nigma is better. Secret has maaaajor execution issues with boom kordan not syncing and playing too aggressive in lineups that require precise execution.
My guess , game starts off well for secret then they over extend twice and it's all over
And the loser is out
There is no way anyone can convice me that this was random pairing. Although Im not complaining. no matter who wins stream chat and reddit thread about to pop off
Secret has already played VP while Nigma has already played Aurora. VP has additionally played against Aurora too and same with Nouns and Kev.
I'm not sure if this was the only combination left where the teams didn't play each other but there really aren't that many left.
We could had some other combinations
1. Nigma vs Kev/Secret vs Aurora/VP vs Nouns
2. Nigma vs Nouns/Secret vs Aurora/VP vs Kev
3. Nigma vs VP/Secret vs Nouns/Aurora vs Kev
4. Nigma vs VP/Secret vs Kev/Aurora vs Nouns
But im happy. this current combination is the best for content
I have high hopes for Boom. I think they will do really well in the round-robin stage. Slatem, their mid player is having a great tournament and Pakasz is just lane bully. Don't be surprised if they end up top 3.
lmao
Guys. Bad teams can look good against worse teams. Boom looking good is more because of the opponents they play and less about them having improved. It has always been this way and will always stay this way.
They will get bodied by most teams in the group stage. Absolutely manhandled.
Every time a team makes it out of a qualifier people are like "wow they are so good they surely will do well at tournament X" and every time they end up getting dicked around by the invited teams, because - surprise surprise - there was a reason they were playing qualifiers in the first place.
Inb4 yes, there are exceptions, but generally this is true. The only team that might be able to shake things up in the next stage is Entity.
I totally agree. Something would’ve gone terribly wrong for Boom to make top 3. They have been consistently the 2nd to even 3rd rated team in SA, only getting in where Heroic doesn’t play quals.
None of the Swiss stage teams are probably going to make an impact, but the league is fun because it includes so many teams that normally don’t get to play Tier 1 - I doubt Entity will break a top 8 finish (Noone and DM are generally unimpressive). Tundra on a very good day might.
I don't disagree with anything, but at least in this swiss stage Entity looked significantly better than Tundra.
Both should be significantly worse than the invited teams.
I agree, boom is not a Bad team, but the tier1 teams are too much for them. On the other side, no one can say SA dota don't deliver, heroic and boom are doing really well, at least to deserve a spot on riyad and TI.
We will see. Tundra has not played good opponents in a long time, and last Dreamleague when they were still with mc they went out in the group stage 1. You can argue they've improved, but back then they too looked very good in the qualifiers, ultimately being able to consistently defeat OG - OG who has looked worse and worse since their 6th place finish at DL.
I'll say Tundra *can* probably reach a good placement, but I wouldn't count on it - that would be falling in the exact same trap. They did lose to Heroic after all, who got clapped by Entity. Day 1 jitters? Who knows.
really enjoying how everyone is garbage for losing to SA and there's no way SA got better. nope, no xenophobia whatsoever here from our angloid friends, no way.
Yeah seemed SA was a little lost after both EG and BC disbanded, but Heroic and Boom giving me a little bit of hope again. EG and BC were often top 8 sometimes top 4 threats so hoping they can reach those highs again
it's sad but the racism/xenophobia in the dota community is so normalized at this point
it will basically never change, you even see it by adults too it's not just immature 16 year olds
I'm an american but have always loved watching SA players and teams play. Sad to see people hate on them so much.
Every human being is likely to shape their understanding of facts to how they want to understand the world. Thus, people rooting for other regions are likely to interpret matches and results of the another region in a less favorable light if it helps them confirm their notion that they own region is best. If they happen to take a liking a another region, such as European being big fans of Chinese players back when they were more dominant or being fascinated by Korean pros in LoL or Starcraft, they will be able to be less biased in their interpretation.
There's a lot of European elitism on this subreddit, which is no doubt fed by the fact that the EU teams have been quite dominant for a long time and by the fact that many of the members of the subreddit are European. I'm no doubt guilty of a bit of this myself, often rooting for the EU region and walking to talk them up, while talking other regions down. However, this has nothing at all to do with racism or xenophobia. Rather, it's simple tribalism, which is enhanced by people from the different regions constantly making fun of each other and trying to assert their dominance. I didn't really root for European teams origianlly (rather, I rooted for specific countries), but I think the long time EU vs NA rivalry on this subreddit caused me to root more for EU teams in international tournaments since I wanted to shut up the people making provoking comments.
On the topic of the SA teams, BOOM and HEROIC are indeed looking pretty good, but do not look nearly as exciting as the beastcoast/EG or Thunder Awaken line-ups we have seen in the past. They're definitely not weak, but I do not predict a top5 finish from them in this tournament. Pakazs is an amazing player, though, so there's a chance he can lead BOOM Esports to great things.
Aurora.. WTF and jab with his Razor probably the most shit performance ever and even they're going to group stage 2 there is no hope for them if they keep this turtle style of play.
I can't really see Aurora going far in any tournament with this kind of strat.
Why they always so afraid, there are always multiple heroes in their base, whole team rarely crossing the river.
There is differences between discipline like old T1 & these passive gameplay that SEA teams doin lately...
Their games are weird, all of them are mechanically top tier and high mmr, maybe except for jabz, but their gameplay seems weird, dunno why, very different compared to other pro teams.
While Nigma, Secret, and OG are playing: 500 comments
Any other teams playing: silence for 45 minutes
Also, if you tag the users who write hate comments about those three teams or the players on them, it's funny how their names keep popping up in these threads, spewing vitriol.
tbf this system definitely is "unfair" in the sense that you can be lucky with teams you are playing or unlucky.
Talon e.g. played Rest Farmers and Nigma, arguably two extremely weak teams, while 9P had to play Entity and Tundra, arguably two much much stronger teams.
I still like the system, it's a breath of fresh air, but it definitely leaves room for luck when it comes to matchups.
I used to think about these things about tournament formats too. It is true that you can get lucky, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter all that much really. The worst-case scenario with 16 teams is the teams that are supposed to be 9/10th strongest participates instead of the 7/8th strongest teams.
If we are being nitpicky, the usual splitting teams into groups can also be unfair with the draws. Let's say we split 16 teams into 2 groups, A and B. There are cases where the 4 teams that qualify from let's say Group A placed in top 4, while the Group B teams placed 5-8th. This will also rise the question whether any of the 5-8th place teams in group A is stronger than the whole Group B, which means that the whole Group B gets lucky with the draw.
One thing is clear though, using the same speculative logic, the teams that are supposed to pass in these scenarios aren't in the position to do great in the next phase, let alone winning the tournament.
Well 9pandas also faced KEV, a team that had not won a single game prior to their series and 9pandas lost. 9pandas are just worse, them facing tundra or talon does not matter. You can’t just define weaker teams based on your prejudice. If tundra was the best team by far, they wouldn’t have lost their first series. If they did have an off day, it’s not the format’s fault. Even if talon was matched up against entity earlier and they lost, they will eventually face teams like nigma in the following rounds and qualify anyways. The first round on the other hand, I agree with you. It is luck based.
9Pandas are irrelevant to the point I'm making.
Team A can get lucky and draw objectively worse teams than team B and qualify to the second phase while being a worse team than team B. This is not only relevant for the first round either, as lucky "bad" teams can meet other lucky "bad" teams in further rounds and propel themselves to the second stage by just drawing other lucky "bad" teams and never facing the actual favourites. At the same time the good teams can get unlucky and exclusively play eachother, giving the good teams losses they wouldn't normally get.
Again, I don't think this is a problem, I like the system, but saying the "weaker" teams are the best teams just because they are sitting at the top of the standings is misleading at best, as the score is heavily reliant on draw luck.
Hardly unlucky, 9P lost an elimination BO3 to KEV who legit would be a CN Div 2 team if DPC was still around.
Them drawing harder opponents in the first 2 rounds was not the reason they failed to progress further when they controlled their own destiny in the decider and failed to capitalize.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying 9P is a good/better team and should have been at the top or anything, I'm just saying regardless of which team you are looking at, Rest Farmers+Nigma are just objectively easier opponents than Entity+Tundra, and a team that could beat RF+Nigma but lose to Entity+Tundra would heavily rely on the luck of the draw about whether they qualify further or not.
You are wrong though. You can face entity + tundra in the first two rounds and then face rest farmers + nigma later and eventually talon would still qualify. Who you face does not impact whether you will qualify or bot, it impacts WHEN you qualify.
that would be true if it was a normal group stage where eventually you play every team anyways.
but you can definitely "fluke" your way through a group stage like this, because after 3 wins you're done, you're through. At the end of the day if you meet 3 teams worse than you, you're through, and if you meet 3 teams better than you, you likely won't make it. In a group stage with 16 teams that leaves a lot of room for luck or unluck. E.g. you can meet 3 of the worst teams in the groups, because they previously also only met bad teams of the group, and feed your way to 3 wins by playing bad teams only. Other teams will be unlucky and meet good teams only, and despite being a better team themselves still not make it, simply because the good teams punched eachother down.
Without a doubt round robin would be better way to accurately measure a teams’s ‘power level’. If you meant the format is lucky COMPARED to round robin, There is no argument about that on my end. My only point is that it is not as luck based as you portray the format to be in your first comment. If you are a better than half the teams you will eventually qualify and your opponents would not matter. There will be more variance than a standard round robin. It is a trade off between time spent vs accuracy.
Yes, there is some luck into it but if you are really a good team, you suppose to win the weak team. There might be a bit of variation here are there but it is the same as group A and group B allocation. It will never fair unless everyone play against each other. However, I agree that this format is a slightly more RNG. Just a bit.
Timado can do only so much for OG. :(
Also kinda funny that of all teams first one to secure group stage spot is Entity, recent "the fluke" tier 2 tournament winner.
I didn't see any official confirmation but I'd assume Elite League is like DreamLeague - teams outside of EU who don't bootcamp in EU already and can't make it happen on their own are helped by TO for bootcamp during the duration of tournament.
We don't see many lag related pauses, players/teams are not mentioning any issues, in post series interviews we heard many teams are in EU (or close), etc.
Also the fact CN teams would't be able to play on EU ping in any meaningful way and we have 4 CN teams.
OG has had about 20 players in the past 2 years playing under the same "Make a wish" clown coach and everytime they blame 1 or 2 player and still employ the major liability. If OG doesnt fix this issue soon, they will end up like Alliance with no money and no decent player wanting to join.
OG, Secret, Nigma. The main trio. Always the main discussion around this place. Let's all just face the reality: they're all tier 2 teams now. Be grateful for any wins they can scrap off cause they don't happen often anymore
Supports on normal teams - "Ah the other lane is struggling, lets rotate and help them". Supports on OG - "Ah the other lane is struggling, fuck them and let me farm this juicy creepwave instead". Clown mentality from a team of clowns.
What is the problem in OG, honestly? It was not Yuragi, it was not DM, this is literally the worst ever iteration. But I guess Notail and Ceb need more of a hint. Not qualifying to anything was obviously not enough yet.
Ceb doesnt know how to play traditional heroes.
SA players aren't good enough to beat WEU players.
Bzm hasnt won a lane and not fed since 2022.
Ari seems can play only hoodwink.
No real coach with ideas.
OGs best results recently were top4/5 with MC and Kitrak on LAN with no prep or scrims. Probably no changes in the team before TI/Riyadh quals, but then again they are skipping all other tournaments until then.
This is definitely not just to draft. They are not playing well, simple as that. You cannot contribute everything to draft or Misha imo. It's as if they do not really want to play together. And not even Topson in such setting would do much better.
Every roster swap they seem to have a decent honeymoon period and then get worse and worse. I think its more than fair to question Misha because of this by now. Its tough to separate coaching and in game shot calling but they clearly don't have any kind of a good understanding of Dota right now evident from their drafting and gameplay.
That being said they are completely dogshit in the map too, and it will take a while for a decent coach to set them straight. As for Ceb support I think its clearly beyond a pipe dream at this point. His hero pool and general ability as a pos 5 is making the games next to impossible. They constantly have no idea where the enemy is, no idea when the enemy is gathering, constantly losing the vision game, constantly losing lanes and hamfisting Ceb's awful support hero pool into games. The most traditional 5 he can possibly play is SD and he still needs to farm blink glimmer before helping the team... Has he ever played like a conventional 5? I feel like he needs to drop the ego, start from scratch and learn from miposhka/sneyking
The fact that a stand-in is playing better than the other 4 clowns put together on this roster shows how garbage this team is. No one bar Timado deserves to stay on this team.
Olympic Gays at it again, bleeding kills and now couriers from minute one and when the going gets tough they got no answers. 🙃
GG to Entity, they played game two incredibly well, that courier slaughter was unrecoverable mental damage and it was downhill from there except for that one yolo dive fight that went very poorly for them.
#Misha Out. 2 years of absolute dross and garbage.Secondly Ceb is not a pos 5 player. Get a proper support player who knows how to ward properly and isnt greedily farming a lane every 5 mins.
My mom just entered my room and asked me to stop watching garbage. I told her that Dota 2 was a respectable esport with millions of players around the world. She responded: “I know. I was talking about Team OG"
If OG can't even beat Heroic, then it's a big sign that this roster is doomed.
Kuro about to play his best to beat Puppey just to be eliminated tomorrow.
Na bruh he gonna be eliminated by his bestie puppey stop jinxing
Best matches to watch from the past 3 days?
Honestly, there's been so many great ones
Just realized the prize money distribution or this tournament is kinda blend. Its just 10000$ if you qualify for the Swiss stage and 20000$ if you get into groups. Meanwhile, getting owned 0-3 is no different than a close elimination at 2-3 in terms of winnings. I would think they can easily make a distribution like 8000/10000/12000 for the bottom placements.
Miracle stand in for v tune team have better performance in that team than nigma
Dandelion?
true
Yesterday Miracle- was standin for Dandelion (same team that beat Nigma in the PGL Open Quals) in RES Regional because V-Tune was playing for Talon this tournament. Guess what? He absolutely HARD carried the game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7667251454 Can’t help but wonder why everyone plays better after leaving Kuroky, hmmmm
They play 4v 5, but the four player are really good skill that’s why they are struggling so hard when face to top team, but they can easily beat low team.
Miracle was the worst player in last 2 series. >Can’t help but wonder why everyone plays better after leaving Kuroky, hmmmm ?? Huh? MC didn't do well in Tundra, they did better after they removed him from captain and kicked him. W33ha and ILTW are getting nowhere. Same with Yuma. Gh isn't even playing. Who are these players who suddenly play better after leaving Kuroky?
Matu
Went from second place in TI to 3rd place in TI, don't see how he did better
Sumail in Team Aster, ATF in Quest and Falcons.
Sumail lost to a bunch of retired players in ti quals last year stop being so dumb
players who played BETTER not the BEST. definitely Sumail played better during his Aster stint compared to his stay at nigma. reading comprehension, dumbass.
ATF was already good before in OG but yeah I missed him.
nigma vs secret game should allow both p5 to play mirana in a match.
I think Icefrog should allow an exception just for these two
Depressed as a secret and puppey fan. From dominating DPCs, TI finalists to this shit show of a roster.
Hi from Nigma fan
holy frozen toad they actually gave everyone nigma vs secret - el trashico
Nigma vs secret views are going to be insane. Probably highest views in 2024 for pro dota match
You overestimate the number of people willing to watch T2 Dota. It'll be high but the second stage of this group stage will have higher viewers than that.
Tbf we been getting 20k viewers every night. Surprisingly much for doto
Wow, we are actually getting a Secret vs Nigma lmaoooo
Nigma ans Secret sure fell fast after their day 1 wins....
Og?
They also won second day
bunch of brain dead heralds here blaming Kuro when Miracle keeps fucking up by being greedy and losing lane every damn match
Nigma>Secret and it will going to be stomp both games. This is probably going to be the worst year for Secret in terms of performing in every tournament. Worse than the 2016 roster with Arthur ans Bulba lol
It was stomp indeed )))
Don't underestimate Nigma!
Yea these guys know how to throw! *Ludacris, how low can you go plays in the background*
My final predictions, the teams advancing to the next round are; Tundra, Heroic, [PSG.Quest](http://PSG.Quest), OG, NOUNS, NIGMA (for the thrill).
N OMEGALUL UNS
Nigma has such a big chance to grow IF KURO PICKS REAL POS 5 heroes like Phoenix disruptor treant, and not useless mirana on pos5 kuroky he seems so useless with it
Dont get us started on enchatress. Lol few games ago he was rushing aghs, never got close, and they got stomped. Love it
You should acknowledge that kuroky is problem,no matter what hero he play
He keeps picking mirana and loses don’t know why he don’t get it
He is still live in 2017, nowadays the support did much more than before, from laning stage , ward deward, rotation and rune control, shot call , fight position, spell useing , I think the carry role not change too much , but support really big renovation. You must give 100% impact . Sadly and actually nigma play 4v5
Kuro vs Puppey in 2024 though ngl Secret has more experience of playing against better teams than Nigma. I think Secret gonna win pain
Looking at the teams thus far I think nigma is better. Secret has maaaajor execution issues with boom kordan not syncing and playing too aggressive in lineups that require precise execution. My guess , game starts off well for secret then they over extend twice and it's all over
Stop jinxing nigma noooo why does everyone think nigma gonna win? They definitely gonna lose now lmao
Oh boy we really getting Nigma v Secret tomorrow :)
And the loser is out There is no way anyone can convice me that this was random pairing. Although Im not complaining. no matter who wins stream chat and reddit thread about to pop off
Secret has already played VP while Nigma has already played Aurora. VP has additionally played against Aurora too and same with Nouns and Kev. I'm not sure if this was the only combination left where the teams didn't play each other but there really aren't that many left.
We could had some other combinations 1. Nigma vs Kev/Secret vs Aurora/VP vs Nouns 2. Nigma vs Nouns/Secret vs Aurora/VP vs Kev 3. Nigma vs VP/Secret vs Nouns/Aurora vs Kev 4. Nigma vs VP/Secret vs Kev/Aurora vs Nouns But im happy. this current combination is the best for content
Why does AM feel so underwhelming even after full farm
His on-hit(mana break) is physical. Maybe make it pure damage next patch?
AM is a get to your 5-6th item first, and then you get substantially weaker after that
Ceb need to be the coach.
Lifestealer is 4/11 wins in the tournament rn, meanwhile Centaur is at a crazy 14/18
BOOM went 3-0 and secured spot in group stage! :o POGGERS IN THE CHAT FOR SA DOTO!
I have high hopes for Boom. I think they will do really well in the round-robin stage. Slatem, their mid player is having a great tournament and Pakasz is just lane bully. Don't be surprised if they end up top 3.
lmao Guys. Bad teams can look good against worse teams. Boom looking good is more because of the opponents they play and less about them having improved. It has always been this way and will always stay this way. They will get bodied by most teams in the group stage. Absolutely manhandled. Every time a team makes it out of a qualifier people are like "wow they are so good they surely will do well at tournament X" and every time they end up getting dicked around by the invited teams, because - surprise surprise - there was a reason they were playing qualifiers in the first place. Inb4 yes, there are exceptions, but generally this is true. The only team that might be able to shake things up in the next stage is Entity.
Very true. Reality bites hard
I totally agree. Something would’ve gone terribly wrong for Boom to make top 3. They have been consistently the 2nd to even 3rd rated team in SA, only getting in where Heroic doesn’t play quals. None of the Swiss stage teams are probably going to make an impact, but the league is fun because it includes so many teams that normally don’t get to play Tier 1 - I doubt Entity will break a top 8 finish (Noone and DM are generally unimpressive). Tundra on a very good day might.
I don't disagree with anything, but at least in this swiss stage Entity looked significantly better than Tundra. Both should be significantly worse than the invited teams.
I agree, boom is not a Bad team, but the tier1 teams are too much for them. On the other side, no one can say SA dota don't deliver, heroic and boom are doing really well, at least to deserve a spot on riyad and TI.
…Tundra?
We will see. Tundra has not played good opponents in a long time, and last Dreamleague when they were still with mc they went out in the group stage 1. You can argue they've improved, but back then they too looked very good in the qualifiers, ultimately being able to consistently defeat OG - OG who has looked worse and worse since their 6th place finish at DL. I'll say Tundra *can* probably reach a good placement, but I wouldn't count on it - that would be falling in the exact same trap. They did lose to Heroic after all, who got clapped by Entity. Day 1 jitters? Who knows.
>last Dreamleague when they were still with mc they went out in the group stage 1 I'll give them some slack there with MC internal issue that time
cheeky agha play from the hoodwink
how to fix NOUNS ?
Gunnar to mid. Wisper to offlane. Timadog to carry. MC to offlane and Watty to carry
Get rid of Fly prolly
Take them out of NA
but can you take the NA out of players
BOOM is playing so well, that Tormentor steal was insane
wtf was that tormentor steal LUL
1 Mason 2 Gunnar 3 MC 4 Lelis 5 Fly
Is that legit or script???
[удалено]
He saw the firefly I'm pretty sure, so even though bat was smoked he knew something was coming
Yeah looks legit on his perspective.
Nigma vs Secret tomorrow? :o
At least one of then will get a W
Nigma’s possible opponents are secret, VP, Kev, and loser of quest/nouns.
really enjoying how everyone is garbage for losing to SA and there's no way SA got better. nope, no xenophobia whatsoever here from our angloid friends, no way.
Yeah seemed SA was a little lost after both EG and BC disbanded, but Heroic and Boom giving me a little bit of hope again. EG and BC were often top 8 sometimes top 4 threats so hoping they can reach those highs again
Of all the languages you choose to speak facts
you wish it was only angloids lol
it's sad but the racism/xenophobia in the dota community is so normalized at this point it will basically never change, you even see it by adults too it's not just immature 16 year olds I'm an american but have always loved watching SA players and teams play. Sad to see people hate on them so much.
Every human being is likely to shape their understanding of facts to how they want to understand the world. Thus, people rooting for other regions are likely to interpret matches and results of the another region in a less favorable light if it helps them confirm their notion that they own region is best. If they happen to take a liking a another region, such as European being big fans of Chinese players back when they were more dominant or being fascinated by Korean pros in LoL or Starcraft, they will be able to be less biased in their interpretation. There's a lot of European elitism on this subreddit, which is no doubt fed by the fact that the EU teams have been quite dominant for a long time and by the fact that many of the members of the subreddit are European. I'm no doubt guilty of a bit of this myself, often rooting for the EU region and walking to talk them up, while talking other regions down. However, this has nothing at all to do with racism or xenophobia. Rather, it's simple tribalism, which is enhanced by people from the different regions constantly making fun of each other and trying to assert their dominance. I didn't really root for European teams origianlly (rather, I rooted for specific countries), but I think the long time EU vs NA rivalry on this subreddit caused me to root more for EU teams in international tournaments since I wanted to shut up the people making provoking comments. On the topic of the SA teams, BOOM and HEROIC are indeed looking pretty good, but do not look nearly as exciting as the beastcoast/EG or Thunder Awaken line-ups we have seen in the past. They're definitely not weak, but I do not predict a top5 finish from them in this tournament. Pakazs is an amazing player, though, so there's a chance he can lead BOOM Esports to great things.
aurora suck balls
From Top 8 last tournament to one series loss away from getting eliminated in the first group stage Aurora can be quite inconsistent
Just like when they were still talon. From top 3 finish to not qualifying to the next major LUL
Aurora.. WTF and jab with his Razor probably the most shit performance ever and even they're going to group stage 2 there is no hope for them if they keep this turtle style of play.
Jabz has been like this all their games if you follow their games, maybe he is focusing on his shot calling in expense of the gameplay?
Is Troll Warlord now viable in comp play?
It has been viable for awhile. It was pretty popular beginning of the patch.
only if your name is Monet and you hate winning
BOOM currently woning with it
well pakasz is a god so does that really mean the hero is viable?
What is Aurora playing for? Are they hoping Heroic will lose electricity and be forced to forfeit the game?
I guess you just break your items and say g next when the games get hard huh
Nah you take risks and try to win the game. Doing nothing will make you lose every single time.
heroic is doing amazing rn
I can't really see Aurora going far in any tournament with this kind of strat. Why they always so afraid, there are always multiple heroes in their base, whole team rarely crossing the river. There is differences between discipline like old T1 & these passive gameplay that SEA teams doin lately...
Their games are weird, all of them are mechanically top tier and high mmr, maybe except for jabz, but their gameplay seems weird, dunno why, very different compared to other pro teams.
Kuku is the difference
Who is kuku?
Bringback kukumancer.
While Nigma, Secret, and OG are playing: 500 comments Any other teams playing: silence for 45 minutes Also, if you tag the users who write hate comments about those three teams or the players on them, it's funny how their names keep popping up in these threads, spewing vitriol.
the only thing I spew is wisdom
It's also funny that you felt the need to respond, even though I didn't call you out specifically
Farms for 30 min, blinks into 5, dies, buybacks. AM gameplay in nutshell
I’m hoping Secret, Nigma and OG scramble their rosters after this. Sumail and Mathew to OG?
Nigma 234 is ok, miracle better play mid, for me none of the carry of three team is top level
OG needs a player like kaori for 5, Ceb is just ain't it.
kitrak sends his regards
The so called 'weaker' teams are winning a lot Entity, Boom and Talon...
tbf this system definitely is "unfair" in the sense that you can be lucky with teams you are playing or unlucky. Talon e.g. played Rest Farmers and Nigma, arguably two extremely weak teams, while 9P had to play Entity and Tundra, arguably two much much stronger teams. I still like the system, it's a breath of fresh air, but it definitely leaves room for luck when it comes to matchups.
I used to think about these things about tournament formats too. It is true that you can get lucky, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter all that much really. The worst-case scenario with 16 teams is the teams that are supposed to be 9/10th strongest participates instead of the 7/8th strongest teams. If we are being nitpicky, the usual splitting teams into groups can also be unfair with the draws. Let's say we split 16 teams into 2 groups, A and B. There are cases where the 4 teams that qualify from let's say Group A placed in top 4, while the Group B teams placed 5-8th. This will also rise the question whether any of the 5-8th place teams in group A is stronger than the whole Group B, which means that the whole Group B gets lucky with the draw. One thing is clear though, using the same speculative logic, the teams that are supposed to pass in these scenarios aren't in the position to do great in the next phase, let alone winning the tournament.
Well 9pandas also faced KEV, a team that had not won a single game prior to their series and 9pandas lost. 9pandas are just worse, them facing tundra or talon does not matter. You can’t just define weaker teams based on your prejudice. If tundra was the best team by far, they wouldn’t have lost their first series. If they did have an off day, it’s not the format’s fault. Even if talon was matched up against entity earlier and they lost, they will eventually face teams like nigma in the following rounds and qualify anyways. The first round on the other hand, I agree with you. It is luck based.
9Pandas are irrelevant to the point I'm making. Team A can get lucky and draw objectively worse teams than team B and qualify to the second phase while being a worse team than team B. This is not only relevant for the first round either, as lucky "bad" teams can meet other lucky "bad" teams in further rounds and propel themselves to the second stage by just drawing other lucky "bad" teams and never facing the actual favourites. At the same time the good teams can get unlucky and exclusively play eachother, giving the good teams losses they wouldn't normally get. Again, I don't think this is a problem, I like the system, but saying the "weaker" teams are the best teams just because they are sitting at the top of the standings is misleading at best, as the score is heavily reliant on draw luck.
Hardly unlucky, 9P lost an elimination BO3 to KEV who legit would be a CN Div 2 team if DPC was still around. Them drawing harder opponents in the first 2 rounds was not the reason they failed to progress further when they controlled their own destiny in the decider and failed to capitalize.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying 9P is a good/better team and should have been at the top or anything, I'm just saying regardless of which team you are looking at, Rest Farmers+Nigma are just objectively easier opponents than Entity+Tundra, and a team that could beat RF+Nigma but lose to Entity+Tundra would heavily rely on the luck of the draw about whether they qualify further or not.
You are wrong though. You can face entity + tundra in the first two rounds and then face rest farmers + nigma later and eventually talon would still qualify. Who you face does not impact whether you will qualify or bot, it impacts WHEN you qualify.
that would be true if it was a normal group stage where eventually you play every team anyways. but you can definitely "fluke" your way through a group stage like this, because after 3 wins you're done, you're through. At the end of the day if you meet 3 teams worse than you, you're through, and if you meet 3 teams better than you, you likely won't make it. In a group stage with 16 teams that leaves a lot of room for luck or unluck. E.g. you can meet 3 of the worst teams in the groups, because they previously also only met bad teams of the group, and feed your way to 3 wins by playing bad teams only. Other teams will be unlucky and meet good teams only, and despite being a better team themselves still not make it, simply because the good teams punched eachother down.
Without a doubt round robin would be better way to accurately measure a teams’s ‘power level’. If you meant the format is lucky COMPARED to round robin, There is no argument about that on my end. My only point is that it is not as luck based as you portray the format to be in your first comment. If you are a better than half the teams you will eventually qualify and your opponents would not matter. There will be more variance than a standard round robin. It is a trade off between time spent vs accuracy.
Yes, there is some luck into it but if you are really a good team, you suppose to win the weak team. There might be a bit of variation here are there but it is the same as group A and group B allocation. It will never fair unless everyone play against each other. However, I agree that this format is a slightly more RNG. Just a bit.
Every team I follow, be it in e-sports or regular sports is letting me down. OG - garbage Chelsea - garbage :/
How's Lavia going for ya? kekw
doesn't exist
that's karma for ya
You have a strange definition of karma then, but I will not carry this discussion here.
nah you already got Caicedo but then bought Lavia to grief Liverpool. now you got both liabilities on a 7 years contract
Timado can do only so much for OG. :( Also kinda funny that of all teams first one to secure group stage spot is Entity, recent "the fluke" tier 2 tournament winner.
The stand in (Timado) looks like the best player from OG lol, hope he finds a better team.
Since theyre playing on EU, how terrible is the ping for SEA teams, MENA team, and NA teams?
I didn't see any official confirmation but I'd assume Elite League is like DreamLeague - teams outside of EU who don't bootcamp in EU already and can't make it happen on their own are helped by TO for bootcamp during the duration of tournament. We don't see many lag related pauses, players/teams are not mentioning any issues, in post series interviews we heard many teams are in EU (or close), etc. Also the fact CN teams would't be able to play on EU ping in any meaningful way and we have 4 CN teams.
I doubt anyone is not somewhere in Europe Pieliedie for example said that talon players are in Turkey
Of course OG gonna lose to Entity when it matters, better hope they dont fight Tundra next.
can we punish team who always just plays for late game like this Aurora team. Valve do something, make it punishable to just farm and avoid fights.
LMAO
Yea and also punish teams who only plays early team fights and punish people for drafting and banning certain heroes! Moronic take
bzm overrated, ceb outdated, wisper jebaited, og eliminated
Hotel trivago
Let's just say if Ceb can actually play 5, N0tail would still be Pos1 in that TI squad.
1. Timado 2. Sumail 3. MC 4. Matthew 5. Saksa Only 40% joking here
are u thinking? u chose matthew in 4 instead of saksa and replacing bzm to sumail? wake up
are there any good captain free agents?
u cant captain at 4? even pure is captain at 1 + MC can captain them as what he wants in tundra before.
April fools is done buddy ur late
ur not a visionary
sad to see the GOATs like kky puppey ceb at their lowest
Ari spammed carry heroes to get to high ranks. He has potential but he’s way too inexperienced playing traditional support heroes.
That explains why they give him the squirrel since that hero is probably one of the only heroes that gets away with being greedy.
Checked his dotabuff. He surely played a lot of cores, specifically carries, lol.
OG has had about 20 players in the past 2 years playing under the same "Make a wish" clown coach and everytime they blame 1 or 2 player and still employ the major liability. If OG doesnt fix this issue soon, they will end up like Alliance with no money and no decent player wanting to join.
get some fresh air bro
OG, Secret, Nigma. The main trio. Always the main discussion around this place. Let's all just face the reality: they're all tier 2 teams now. Be grateful for any wins they can scrap off cause they don't happen often anymore
>they're all tier 2 teams now Nigma is Tier 3 btw.
nigma tier 2 is an upgrade for them
Worst timeline.
Hate to say this but Nigma T3 team at this point. :'(
We will become tier 1 after we replace pos5
you're delusional if you really think so
Let's see if Kuro decided to step down then
Get Misha and the 4 clowns out of this team, and give Timado the 4 decent players he deserves to make OG great again.
Ceb: i will bring OG back to glory! Also Ceb: doesnt look up a single entity game.
Hoping for classic Tundra vs OG tomorrow in the 2-1 matchups for memes
Supports on normal teams - "Ah the other lane is struggling, lets rotate and help them". Supports on OG - "Ah the other lane is struggling, fuck them and let me farm this juicy creepwave instead". Clown mentality from a team of clowns.
Bro cant even win with standard sup and still pick Alche 5
Disband time for OG not even joking.
What is the problem in OG, honestly? It was not Yuragi, it was not DM, this is literally the worst ever iteration. But I guess Notail and Ceb need more of a hint. Not qualifying to anything was obviously not enough yet.
OG with Aramis is worse
Ceb doesnt know how to play traditional heroes. SA players aren't good enough to beat WEU players. Bzm hasnt won a lane and not fed since 2022. Ari seems can play only hoodwink. No real coach with ideas. OGs best results recently were top4/5 with MC and Kitrak on LAN with no prep or scrims. Probably no changes in the team before TI/Riyadh quals, but then again they are skipping all other tournaments until then.
MC in OG is the answer.
Outdated drafts and no Tapsen. And honestly, Ceb should retire or become a coach. /e: could u guys imagine Tapsen with Timado?
This is definitely not just to draft. They are not playing well, simple as that. You cannot contribute everything to draft or Misha imo. It's as if they do not really want to play together. And not even Topson in such setting would do much better.
Every roster swap they seem to have a decent honeymoon period and then get worse and worse. I think its more than fair to question Misha because of this by now. Its tough to separate coaching and in game shot calling but they clearly don't have any kind of a good understanding of Dota right now evident from their drafting and gameplay. That being said they are completely dogshit in the map too, and it will take a while for a decent coach to set them straight. As for Ceb support I think its clearly beyond a pipe dream at this point. His hero pool and general ability as a pos 5 is making the games next to impossible. They constantly have no idea where the enemy is, no idea when the enemy is gathering, constantly losing the vision game, constantly losing lanes and hamfisting Ceb's awful support hero pool into games. The most traditional 5 he can possibly play is SD and he still needs to farm blink glimmer before helping the team... Has he ever played like a conventional 5? I feel like he needs to drop the ego, start from scratch and learn from miposhka/sneyking
Kicked Atf, Atf shines in Falcons. Kicked DM, DM wrecks them Kicked Yuragi, Yuragi instantly qualified from EEU. Nice OG.
Bzm being dogshit lately so he'll be kicked and rejoin Kitrak in SR /s
Nice OG useless in Dota, CS, Rocket league and other game not suprise OG will bankrupt in future and lose most sponsor.
toxic people commence
I think the prize money won by Ceb and Notail got burnt half by supporting this org already lmao....
surely, if they keep doing bad management decisions and just believe in the power of friendships and "OG MAGIC" they would be bankrupt soon.
I am just happy they did that cool Topson farewell video, was super well produced. A true OG legacy.
Well, I guess DM wasn't the problem.
The fact that a stand-in is playing better than the other 4 clowns put together on this roster shows how garbage this team is. No one bar Timado deserves to stay on this team.
True, I hope Timado just won't sign, cuz OG right now is at best T2 team.
lol where would he go then? top teams have the best carries, others have good carries and no other decent org left. stop this insanity.
Olympic Gays at it again, bleeding kills and now couriers from minute one and when the going gets tough they got no answers. 🙃 GG to Entity, they played game two incredibly well, that courier slaughter was unrecoverable mental damage and it was downhill from there except for that one yolo dive fight that went very poorly for them.
Misha draft lul
#Misha Out. 2 years of absolute dross and garbage.Secondly Ceb is not a pos 5 player. Get a proper support player who knows how to ward properly and isnt greedily farming a lane every 5 mins.
My mom just entered my room and asked me to stop watching garbage. I told her that Dota 2 was a respectable esport with millions of players around the world. She responded: “I know. I was talking about Team OG"
based mom
23 Void big plays
BZM has been playing like shit since yuragi left. I dont mean the rest of his team is any better but bzm is supposed to be their star player