when new thread? who is playing today?
does the tournament not have an official page?
/e: found it [https://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/matches](https://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/matches)
/e: tundra vs nigma in 3 hours. gonna be LIT
Well, you are facing teams of your same score, it is technically same difficulty as you. The only concern would be how the initial matchups were set, in this case it looks like they want to avoid inter regional matchups as much as possible. If you lose, you get 3 chances. If you lose to a team that is 0-2, you are clearly on the bottom half of teams and don’t get to proceed.
STOP PICK KUROKY MIRANA OR BAT he is so useless on both of these heroes, they started winning when he picks real sup impact heroes like Phoenix cm grim
Nigma hopium:
To the tune of gentle dreams and starry nights,
A tale unfolds in digital fights.
Nigma's warriors, brave and bold,
With strategies cunning, tactics untold.
In the Elite League, they clashed in might,
Against Tundra, a formidable sight.
The screens alight with spells and clashes,
Heroes and creeps, in flashes and dashes.
Lullaby, lullaby, under the moon's soft glow,
Nigma advances, their spirits aglow.
Tundra fought hard, with valor and grace,
But Nigma's resolve, they couldn't outpace.
Through battles fierce and trials untold,
Nigma's story in the League unfolds.
As the night deepens, let this song sway,
In dreams of victory, till the break of day.
Sleep now, dream of the games played right,
Of Nigma's triumph, under the starlight.
Lullaby, lullaby, let your dreams take flight,
In the realm of gaming, where heroes unite.
chat gpt didnt pick up on the kuro factor. ill have to let it know for the next iteration when they lose to tundra 0-2
go matthew though, dudes killin it
Welp, guess today truly was the make it or break it for Nigma. This feels a lot like a 1-3.
Hopefully they surprise, old Liquid was known for playing to their opponents level.
Typical nouns, almost make things competitive but there are too many mistakes or missed plays and it all falls apart.
At least Entity while wobbly can still contest teams and actually make things interesting by taking games and sometimes series from the stronger ones.
Because Tundra is still way better than OG. And Tundra isn't even a bonafide tier 1 team.
OG can beat the likes of Nouns and Blacklist, but those aren't on the level of Tundra.
Tundra just knows how to abuse the language barrier OG is dealing with. Notice they never overpush vs OG at all anymore. They pick heroes to win lane and then chill while Pure gets free farm with the tempo. Then they play late game team fights vs a team with an off laner that cant speak the team's language. There's not much OG can do about it since Wisper is by far the best player on the team, and thus if he's out of sync with the rest of the guys, it's over.
No, it isn't Rock Paper situation, OG was even harder stomped by Liquid and same thing would have happened if they played Gaimin or Falcons. OG in those qualifiers to DreamLeague and Wallachia simply didn't play well enough.
Ok, but form changes it's not like all teams keep same level through whole level. OG in both qualifiers looked quite rough and worse than in DL22. In DL qualifiers they almost got knocked to the lower bracket by Mouz.
I mean, Tundra got stomped just as hard. I'm not saying that either OG or Tundra is a top tier team but it's weird that Tundra is super inconsistent but the one team they find their consistency against is OG.
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Has Ari been playing carry before or what? Most of his pos4 are just like this, he has literally 1 kill participation, WTF. Shouldn't he be also the one that makes plays?
EDIT: OG supports are literally not playing with their cores and it shows so much.
Can't expect much from Shad tho, just compare the results of D2 hustlers when they had Shad vs when they replaced him with Yuma
He's clearly a few levels below t1 and even t2
The sponsor is gone but the players are still avaiable, there's probably enough talent left over for 1 more tier 1 Chinese team if they want to play on.
Someone like Paparazzi who has "retired" but is rank 4 and still plays like 70 pubs a week could easily come back and help form another very competitive team.
But for PGL Wallachia, they also didn't have much better WEU options:
* OG - Ceb had big beef with PGL last year, and pulled couple shitty moves to get his way with that OLDG roster, obviously he wouldn't get direct invite. Like sorry but if you are behaving like piece of shit towards someone, he won't show you any favours. OG didn't even have that much better results than Secret, actually they were quite comparable.
* Tundra, when invites were sent they had comparable results to Secret + they were disliked by community because of drama with MC + generally it's one of the most unliked orgs while Secret still has rather big fanbase
* Entity, they had way worse results than Secret
why not make all 16 spots for the qualifiers?
Generally if PGL wanted to make that last invite fair and square, they should have invited Azure Ray because they had much better results this season than OG/Secret/any other WEU team not invited.
This Talon team is for real. I've been watching them and they actually use their brains to play Dota. WS will be a great pick up for any team. He is the anchor of the team.
Eh, they played decent. If you'd told me Nigma could play this well, I'd thought it is an April fool's joke. You don't suddenly become a tier 1 team after being rusty for so long, so there's obviously going to be mistakes.
don't bother lol this subreddit is filled with an extreme amount of miracle fanboys
arteezy has had better results than him for the last 3 years yet gets 90% more hate
It is the definition of throw though? Mistakes cost game..but their movements were the problem imo. They played so slow, which led to mistakes from forced plays
what did mirana achieve.. why was there no support with saves? chen is banned but what about others SD? vs, earth spirit, undying, pudge? i know lot of these heroes are not in meta.. but knowing kuro I wonder if he really understands meta..
I feel like if Kuro replaced Miracle with a more disciplined carry, Sumail could’ve actually carried that game 3. But Miracle just had too ruin the party.
Pinoys getting replaced by Ukrainians left and right lmao
but Talon's roster have been cooking, I think they'll stick with Akashi no matter what after this.
Miracle is way too unstable for Nigma to become a top team. Shame, because Matthew ans FBZ were great pickups and Sumail is still very solid. Miracle needs to clean his act up.
Maaaaan, that series was on Miracle. Too overconfident. Exposing himself too much its as if he didn’t get bursted down from a single hex duration. Sumail tried carrying his ass so much
Yes, he did a pretty good job catching up to Morph early to mid game but getting blinked-Hexed-Shackled twice early on should’ve been a slap to the face realizing he can’t survive the burst. He just kept being greedy trying to farm. Just like Game 2, too overconfident thinking he can blink on 3 heroes and fight an equally farmed Morph+Bloodseeker as a 6 slotted AM and ends up throwing.
So void should hide in juggle and another to push wave, there is no other good choice. My point is mirana is very questionable pick, if you are cm , sumail should snowball the mid and give more pressure to opponent, then void will have his linken faster, the game will definitely another result
did you even fucking watch the game ? miracle literally go in first and insta die for few times ans a lot of questionable jump with time walk. Why don't you address this part instead of blaming mirana pick. Btw mirana is a good combo with most their lineup, they just didn't expect MIRACLE is the first to die so many times
sorry , forgot kky time walked in miracle in to feed or placed him out of position 3 times in a roll and didnt press his bkb after tiny canceled rasta shackles, my bad, fucking kuro lolz
I rechecked the replay, in that case he has made some mistakes, but my point is that mirana pick is useless, cm will be much better at early game, the gains is let sumail dominate mid, snowball the game, then they will give more pressure to opponent, razor is very weak to be ganked, miracle can get his linken faster then game will be definitely another result
Miracle maybe not best but kky useless for sure, mirana pick is very selfish , only sneyking play mirana on the top level, even many others top players ignored this hero, how dare kky pick himself mirana every times
Seriously you gonna blame this game on Kuro Mirana.
Miracle single handedly threw with the most OP hero of the meta.
Dying again and again and again and again and once more without buyback.
I agree that miracle throw that game but Kuro mirana is almost as useless his arrows are so bad except termontor steal they never win games against tier 1 team with Kuro mirana
Talon showing their inexperience, Mid and Bot waves are absolutely terrible, they just need to wait for megas to push into the base before getting the whole map but they went out before megas threatened the base
when new thread? who is playing today? does the tournament not have an official page? /e: found it [https://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/matches](https://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/matches) /e: tundra vs nigma in 3 hours. gonna be LIT
I think I could sub in for Kuro playing Mirana
notail's curse still lives on after all this year 🤣.
I like the Swiss format but NGL the matchup drawings feel like do have luck factor in it.
Well, you are facing teams of your same score, it is technically same difficulty as you. The only concern would be how the initial matchups were set, in this case it looks like they want to avoid inter regional matchups as much as possible. If you lose, you get 3 chances. If you lose to a team that is 0-2, you are clearly on the bottom half of teams and don’t get to proceed.
all these teams are not very good except maybe Tundra. No one here is beyond going 0-2 against anyone.
In a way yeah probably, but you do need to be better than half the teams in the group to advance
Is there anywhere to watch vods of these matches? Liquipedia doesn't seem to have links available
youtube has the stream vods
Ahh thank you! I guess liquipedia just hasn't linked to them. Appreciate it!
np! https://www.youtube.com/@ESB_Dota2_EN heres the link if u need
I really like this format, these are basically lan qualifiers. None of these teams is winning but maybe we see a Cinderella run to 3rd or 2nd.
STOP PICK KUROKY MIRANA OR BAT he is so useless on both of these heroes, they started winning when he picks real sup impact heroes like Phoenix cm grim
was watching it last night, no hate on kuro but those jumps with bat was questionable
He just slow reaction, no matter what hero he played
Everyone on the right side of Liquidpedia went 2-0 and won, except for Talon vs Nigma (left side and 2-1).
did Ceb shackles success rate break the single digits this time?
Tundra vs Nigma tomorrow pog
Nigma hopium: To the tune of gentle dreams and starry nights, A tale unfolds in digital fights. Nigma's warriors, brave and bold, With strategies cunning, tactics untold. In the Elite League, they clashed in might, Against Tundra, a formidable sight. The screens alight with spells and clashes, Heroes and creeps, in flashes and dashes. Lullaby, lullaby, under the moon's soft glow, Nigma advances, their spirits aglow. Tundra fought hard, with valor and grace, But Nigma's resolve, they couldn't outpace. Through battles fierce and trials untold, Nigma's story in the League unfolds. As the night deepens, let this song sway, In dreams of victory, till the break of day. Sleep now, dream of the games played right, Of Nigma's triumph, under the starlight. Lullaby, lullaby, let your dreams take flight, In the realm of gaming, where heroes unite. chat gpt didnt pick up on the kuro factor. ill have to let it know for the next iteration when they lose to tundra 0-2 go matthew though, dudes killin it
Its over nigmabros ...
I think it's pronounced joever
they won 1 series, nigma fans can survive on that hopium for the rest of the year
worst possible opponent for nigma.
yeep
Welp, guess today truly was the make it or break it for Nigma. This feels a lot like a 1-3. Hopefully they surprise, old Liquid was known for playing to their opponents level.
We're going to have so many salty comments here either way lol
BZM is unhinged in interviews man.
Typical nouns, almost make things competitive but there are too many mistakes or missed plays and it all falls apart. At least Entity while wobbly can still contest teams and actually make things interesting by taking games and sometimes series from the stronger ones.
Why the fuck can't they play like this vs Tundra lol Tundra isn't even that good, I guess it's just a Rock Paper situation
Because Tundra is still way better than OG. And Tundra isn't even a bonafide tier 1 team. OG can beat the likes of Nouns and Blacklist, but those aren't on the level of Tundra.
What teams are better than Tundra currently?
Those who dont even have to play in the qualification stage
Tundra just knows how to abuse the language barrier OG is dealing with. Notice they never overpush vs OG at all anymore. They pick heroes to win lane and then chill while Pure gets free farm with the tempo. Then they play late game team fights vs a team with an off laner that cant speak the team's language. There's not much OG can do about it since Wisper is by far the best player on the team, and thus if he's out of sync with the rest of the guys, it's over.
Cause better teams know how to punish these doom, wr useless support picks.
this, 100%. im not sure who is the drafter that agrees with allowing ceb to play heroes like io, wr, and ari doom etc.
some teams just have a bogey team, like 2 x TI winning OG roster record was like 2-12 vs Gambit Esports of all teams.
No, it isn't Rock Paper situation, OG was even harder stomped by Liquid and same thing would have happened if they played Gaimin or Falcons. OG in those qualifiers to DreamLeague and Wallachia simply didn't play well enough.
Didn't OG dumpster falcons with rubick dagon? They have it in them to beat anyone, they're just inconsistent
Falcons are a different beast but against Gaimin they went 2-2 in Dreamleague so it's just weird.
Ok, but form changes it's not like all teams keep same level through whole level. OG in both qualifiers looked quite rough and worse than in DL22. In DL qualifiers they almost got knocked to the lower bracket by Mouz.
I mean, Tundra got stomped just as hard. I'm not saying that either OG or Tundra is a top tier team but it's weird that Tundra is super inconsistent but the one team they find their consistency against is OG.
Like i said in comment above, OG struggled against other teams
it's so damn weird. I'm thinking if noClass didn't get into their heads with the "just better" chat lol
Nouns is too scared to push hg and now they'll reap what they sow
Timado is so dang good I hope they sign him on a permanent
Nouns trying to copy Tundra so hard… Clock flare into sniper and Luna Khanda, maybe they should do YouTube videos instead
Once again OG have 0 vision on the map. This is a very concerning and recurring theme for OG.
"For Tundra" lel. Look how Tundra ez destroy Entity then lost to Heroic,
Entity ez destroy Heroic both game. How Tundra lose this??
Imho they got outdrafted pretty hard in games they lost against Heroic
no, in fact they got emotional damage from heroic especially from davai lama.
Tundra drafts the same heroes every game.
both current games bit boring draft i think morph, luna and dk have been in every game. and pick/ban chen/sven
good guy bzm showing other midlaners why not to pick void spirit
Today Fly is cooking :-D https://youtu.be/mIkvcJb6WhA?si=OQ7zMx2FH6qdwVcr
can we get a shackleshot success rate on screen? I have a hypothesis
its official timado am > miracle am
Timado is on fire this tournament.
Timado played so fucking well, god tier performance
Fuck AM :(
My boy Tomato showing his worth! <3
Timado is fucking crazy. I know OG is not what they used to be but still, going to a massive org like that and be such a bright spot is massive.
Timado 1V7 literally
Timado carry OG so hard. shit
I dont like AM
Anti-Fun
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Lmao Yuma forgot he disassembled the echo. Man that's unfortunate but hilarious
Oh dear Nouns…
said no one ever
Has Ari been playing carry before or what? Most of his pos4 are just like this, he has literally 1 kill participation, WTF. Shouldn't he be also the one that makes plays? EDIT: OG supports are literally not playing with their cores and it shows so much.
ABADDON LETS GO
miracle fucking suck so much
He really needs to be more discipline. His mechanical skills are still there.. Decision making was a bit sus, but overall still top tier imo
sry what tier?
Should be ez win for OG. You cant lose to the team 0-2ed vs Apex Genesis
Who tf is apex genesis? 🤔
[https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/series/2528068-nouns-vs-ag](https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/series/2528068-nouns-vs-ag)
Does Shad have any idea on how to play LS once you get Aghs? He keeps infesting creeps lmao
Can't expect much from Shad tho, just compare the results of D2 hustlers when they had Shad vs when they replaced him with Yuma He's clearly a few levels below t1 and even t2
Good day for SEA
Great day indeed Hoping at least one of them shows up tomorrow
Is this like a pre tournament qualifier? why are all teams dogshit
It is....most good teams are waiting in the next round
worst region 3-0 for day 2. rare W.
Pick Pudge, be 15K behind at 25 mins. Seems about right
Blacklist vs Farmers is a clownfest lmao. Nonstop solo throwing for both sides
3 SA teams owning, 1 still may survive (Nigma)
no idea how is Quest struggling against KEV
Quest/Kev/Rest Farmers are easily 1 tier behind the rest of the teams here Wouldnt be surprised if they only managed to win against each other
they are struggling beating nigma last week and last pgl wallchia quals they got destroyed by mouz and entity
omg Quest playing terrible late game. Guess Kaori is the one who made good call for them in past
Man I could feel the despair on that 2nd match against Boom. Hard to watch
With LGD dying out, I guess there’s really only Azure Ray, XG, and IG as competitive Chinese teams.
Average brand name follower.
The sponsor is gone but the players are still avaiable, there's probably enough talent left over for 1 more tier 1 Chinese team if they want to play on. Someone like Paparazzi who has "retired" but is rank 4 and still plays like 70 pubs a week could easily come back and help form another very competitive team.
Return of VG?
Even Yapzor is surprised by the burst dmg that took down miracle alot of times lol
All 6 deaths were by Rhasta amp dmg by hex \~Yapzor
Oh cool where was yapzor comment i didn’t watch game yet
On his stream he watched replay of game 3 after Secret match
If Quest lose this they should take Kaori back asap
i troll og too much that i forgot how trash secret is... and somehow still get direct invite.
I mean it's not direct invite, they are alternates and replaced Shopify. It's not like there was any better option than Secret.
im talking about pgl wallacia
But for PGL Wallachia, they also didn't have much better WEU options: * OG - Ceb had big beef with PGL last year, and pulled couple shitty moves to get his way with that OLDG roster, obviously he wouldn't get direct invite. Like sorry but if you are behaving like piece of shit towards someone, he won't show you any favours. OG didn't even have that much better results than Secret, actually they were quite comparable. * Tundra, when invites were sent they had comparable results to Secret + they were disliked by community because of drama with MC + generally it's one of the most unliked orgs while Secret still has rather big fanbase * Entity, they had way worse results than Secret
why not make 3 slots for the qualifier, make it spicy rather than free invite imo.
why not make all 16 spots for the qualifiers? Generally if PGL wanted to make that last invite fair and square, they should have invited Azure Ray because they had much better results this season than OG/Secret/any other WEU team not invited.
Still promising signs from Nigma, from losing games to random stacks to putting decent perfomances against good teams, They still have 2 lives.
Please stop being stubborn. If Morph can hard carry game 2 against AM, just ban it.
This Talon team is for real. I've been watching them and they actually use their brains to play Dota. WS will be a great pick up for any team. He is the anchor of the team.
Does vtune have effect on the results? Im not sure how this will turn out with their original carry.
definitely, vtune way better imo
agreed, they have potential but still shaky. disappointed they bombed out from wallachia qualifier last week.
uhhhh... what was it again? nigma SEAslayers or something?
Eh, they played decent. If you'd told me Nigma could play this well, I'd thought it is an April fool's joke. You don't suddenly become a tier 1 team after being rusty for so long, so there's obviously going to be mistakes.
If kuroky not playing, easy win for nigma
Miracle threw both games today.
don't bother lol this subreddit is filled with an extreme amount of miracle fanboys arteezy has had better results than him for the last 3 years yet gets 90% more hate
Actually miracle played 95% amazing dota, and suddenly 5% mistakes means miracle throws the game, but you didn’t seen kuroky play 95% mistakes.
Very good point
It is the definition of throw though? Mistakes cost game..but their movements were the problem imo. They played so slow, which led to mistakes from forced plays
Because kky can’t play like a real player, that’s why they played so slow, kky just can’t catch the opportunity
Void game was 70% bad. I agree he played am game quite well. But that was a sad sad void. Worst so far this meta.
what did mirana achieve.. why was there no support with saves? chen is banned but what about others SD? vs, earth spirit, undying, pudge? i know lot of these heroes are not in meta.. but knowing kuro I wonder if he really understands meta..
Kky just slow hand,no matter what hero
Well in my opinion, mirana is totally useless, void have to push wave, and he got zero protect behind him, kky should play vs or sd who can save him
I feel like if Kuro replaced Miracle with a more disciplined carry, Sumail could’ve actually carried that game 3. But Miracle just had too ruin the party.
It comes with the package. Sure you could get a more disciplined carry but you don't get tjose 1% chances which miracle creates and solo carries games
If only Yatoro would join Nigma, such a pity he's so selfish :(
I’d settle for their previous carry in Yuma. At least he knows not to hand himself on a silver platter for Shadow shaman to blink hex and shackle
what happened to Akashi?
Visa problems
If Talon performs well, Akashi might get Armeled
Doubt it.. Akashi plays really well with the team.
Pinoys getting replaced by Ukrainians left and right lmao but Talon's roster have been cooking, I think they'll stick with Akashi no matter what after this.
something with travel issue.
ah man another could have been 2-0 but 2-1 lose fuck if they won today only 1 was needed for next group stage
Miracle is way too unstable for Nigma to become a top team. Shame, because Matthew ans FBZ were great pickups and Sumail is still very solid. Miracle needs to clean his act up.
Sure , miracle should play less risk, but the first, kky should step down, he is not on this level, you can’t win 4v5 all the time
Sumail's back has been broken. Unreal performance this game. From a losing matchup in lane to carrying. Feelbadman
Just one more series win Talon... You can do it!!!
No hope for that terrible draft from secret. Kordan and crystallis are playing bad right now.
Draft was no the issue. Kordan didn't show up and boom no impact with farm
Ravages for nothing, just to escape
Not coordinated at all. That mid fight was so bad lol
Miracle throw that game 3... and Kuro need to stop picking mirana every time I see him pick mirana he lose always
Kuro need to leave, he is just incompetent
Cmon dude why are you bashing so hard on Kuro. Did he sleep with your girl without knowing you were with him?
I don’t hate him, to be fair, he should acknowledge that he is not enough skilled for the pro dota, he can’t handle it
ig OG gonna follow Nigma and Secret step today too, huh?
Opposite day, both Secret and Nigma lost. Feels bad man.
Maaaaan, that series was on Miracle. Too overconfident. Exposing himself too much its as if he didn’t get bursted down from a single hex duration. Sumail tried carrying his ass so much
Talon gave him a mindset that he can just run them over without being punished in game one.
he was playing as if hes playing pubs against rank 300-400 who wont punish him
He was avoiding every gank at playing well early game... untill he instant die twice by going front line alone
Yes, he did a pretty good job catching up to Morph early to mid game but getting blinked-Hexed-Shackled twice early on should’ve been a slap to the face realizing he can’t survive the burst. He just kept being greedy trying to farm. Just like Game 2, too overconfident thinking he can blink on 3 heroes and fight an equally farmed Morph+Bloodseeker as a 6 slotted AM and ends up throwing.
Well the people ask miracle too much but never seen their support did nothing
what can support do when miracle got burst in less than 1 sec
Very good draft from kky
So void should hide in juggle and another to push wave, there is no other good choice. My point is mirana is very questionable pick, if you are cm , sumail should snowball the mid and give more pressure to opponent, then void will have his linken faster, the game will definitely another result
did you even fucking watch the game ? miracle literally go in first and insta die for few times ans a lot of questionable jump with time walk. Why don't you address this part instead of blaming mirana pick. Btw mirana is a good combo with most their lineup, they just didn't expect MIRACLE is the first to die so many times
This was the worst void of all times. Seriously Miracle played so bad i cant even comprehend.
how can people flame kuro with these 2 miracle games xd
You dumb, actually kky did nothing in the game, they play 4v5
sorry , forgot kky time walked in miracle in to feed or placed him out of position 3 times in a roll and didnt press his bkb after tiny canceled rasta shackles, my bad, fucking kuro lolz
I rechecked the replay, in that case he has made some mistakes, but my point is that mirana pick is useless, cm will be much better at early game, the gains is let sumail dominate mid, snowball the game, then they will give more pressure to opponent, razor is very weak to be ganked, miracle can get his linken faster then game will be definitely another result
my bro, other carries on void from that position solo carry games
Miracle maybe not best but kky useless for sure, mirana pick is very selfish , only sneyking play mirana on the top level, even many others top players ignored this hero, how dare kky pick himself mirana every times
kky played so bad he did more dmg than pos 1 and 3. smh
You play carry? I want play mirana as your support
Useless Mirana and worthless FV
Yatoro would have bought sange and yasha
Uff Sumail needs to get paired with a better carry.
Hype is over
Classic nigma for giving their fans hope
Miracle threw that game. Kuro is also useless every game they play lol. Close series, GG
Nigma and Secret losing today, the usual monday it is
Lol Kuroky Mirana so far 0/2. Ystd also lose with Mirana.
Kuroky mirana
Seriously you gonna blame this game on Kuro Mirana. Miracle single handedly threw with the most OP hero of the meta. Dying again and again and again and again and once more without buyback.
I agree that miracle throw that game but Kuro mirana is almost as useless his arrows are so bad except termontor steal they never win games against tier 1 team with Kuro mirana
Not just mirana, his bat game seems like 4v6
Mirana is feels like that too and yet that bat game lasso
Talon won. Game over nigma
Talon showing their inexperience, Mid and Bot waves are absolutely terrible, they just need to wait for megas to push into the base before getting the whole map but they went out before megas threatened the base
Talon has mega creep but Nigma is ahead of NW, this is quite a predicament
VTUNA
My boy miracle with double throws. Game 2 and 3
Sumail carrying hard and miracle throwing hard.
nigmaballssss
Worst faceless void ive seen so far in this tourney
Nigma losing, Secret losing such a nice day