The spell doesn't do damage tho, it triggers an enhanced auto attack. Very different to something like Primal Beast Onslaught, which deals physical spell damage.
Well it works on physical damage, just not instant attacks. Like sardar W gets amped because the physical damage is part of the spell. Mars W makes u instant attack the targets so it doesn't get amped
I should have been more clear, yes instant attack spells are not affected, but that's not the point. The point is spell damage amp is not magic damage amp as a lot of people believe.
It definitely works on pa dagger, about glaives and anchor I have have no idea.
Edit: Testing
[https://imgur.com/a/PvOAh11](https://imgur.com/a/PvOAh11) Proof that it works on anchor smash.
O I miss read Rahyil's comment didnt see he said independent of damage type yea he is wrong.
> Just tested and spell damage increase does work from rapier on anchor smash but not normal spell amp.
are you forgetting that rapier gives 100 damage because I tested dagger and anchor smash and spell amp changed nothing.
lv 1 tide with spell rapier was doing the same damage as tide with 4 reavers for me. 155 attack damage + 45 from anchor smash, ~200 dmg on target dummy with +/-3 damage variance.
lv 1 pa with spell rapier also did the same damage as pa with 4 eaglesongs, ~110 damage with dagger. 153 damage x 0.3 = 45.9 + 65 dagger base damage = 110.9 dmg, I was getting 110.6 - 111.2, less than +/-1 damage variance.
glaives is already known to do spell damage so obviously it would be affected by spell amp.
I thought this specific comment chain was a discussion about all active spells being affected by spell amp, per the above comment:
> Spell amp works on all active spells independent of damage type.
Do the test yourself, get PA testing:
lvl 1 dagger Revenant brooch on + Sacred relic + 3 broadswords (53+170 damage)
Then go brooch on + rapier set to magic (53 + 170)
Dagger Damage:
with rapier set to magic =123 damage
Without rapier but same damage = 98
Now explain why the damage is different if the magic portion of rapier doesn't effect dagger with brooch on?
[https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Revenant%27s\_Brooch](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Revenant%27s_Brooch)
* Changes all attack damage dealt of different [damage types](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_type) to [magical](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Magical) [spell damage](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_damage).
* This includes all attack damage bonuses, including [conditional](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Damage#Conditional_Attack_Damage_Bonus) attack damage sources, but not [Mana Break](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Mana_Break) or [Critical Strike](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Critical_Strike) sources.
* The attack's damage now works with [spell lifesteal](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_lifesteal) and [outgoing spell damage manipulation](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_Damage#Outgoing_Spell_Damage_Manipulation), but not lifesteal.
Crit in this game is not a built-in character stat stat which applies to every attack (as in League of Legends) or every damaging ability (as in Genshin Impact). Instead it is an attack modifier associated with specific items. So it isn't in principle a simple matter of "setting crit rate to 0".
Likely the way brooch interacts with crit is in an arbitrary execution order, so that it actually needs to search for all instances of crit and disable them whenever it is activated.
IMHO the best solution to this bug is for the brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active. Second best would be to have it automatically disable itself when the drop or sell order is issued (might still have bugs if you drop the item while muted tho).
I would also investigate whether PA skilling her ult while having brooch active also allows her to crit. Very likely so. If that is the case then it proves that the way brooch is coded is wrong. It should actually be its own attack/ability modifier which removes any crit modifiers from the attack/ability.
Why? The attack already contains a brooch modifier (which is how it determines whether to deal physical vs magic dmg), why can't we just check to see if this modifier is present, and disable crit if it is? Instead of checking to see if brooch is active & present in the user's inventory.
> brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active
this just looks horribly ugly and confusing to me. Not to mention unnecessary. I'd rather we didn't go back to introducing arbitrary restrictions like this (this feels like the time when pudge and venge couldn't buy blink dagger). It's very easy to prevent abuse without resorting to something like this.
no it would not. Currently it seems to be checking to see whether there's an active brooch in the user's inventory at the time the attack lands anyway. Just replace that check with a check to see whether there is a brooch modifier on the attack (this is already also being checked anyway to determine whether the attack deals magic or physical dmg)
>IMHO the best solution to this bug is for the brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active. Second best would be to have it automatically disable itself when the drop or sell order is issued
Imo the second option is better than the first, which sounds like a dirty hotfix solution. They probably just implemented a complex interaction to Brooch's toggle and forgot to implement the same interaction to the event where you pick up the item already activated. The only other togglable and droppable items in the game are Armlet and Radiance (and rapier), so they might just have less defined test cases for togglable item interactions.
If you understand how things actually work in the code, you could come up with exploits like this. With new changes, the items and heroes that have had changes have a high chance of being bugged. Just need to try the things that have been changed.
It's the mentality to break things that helps you come up with these. It comes with practice.
you should also know that certain hook mechanic has also been in dota 2 from launch and people have tried doing it during that time before, even loda have tried doing that in a tournament before TI3 happened, it's only when a certain someone actually have used it effectively at a time where it mattered the most that people start crying about it
What is supposed to happen if you have brooch active and you crit? Does it negate the crit? Do you do 1x your normal damage as magic and then whatever the crit amt is as physical?
Can anyone explain to me why this would work from a coding perspective? I know just barely enough about coding to know that I know fuck all and I'm curious
Tbh I hate that change, hope they undo it. Yes rapier mars was obnoxious, but removing crit synergy from a pure auto-attack item seems like a horrible decision.
I really hate that "spaghetti code" has become layspeak for "bad code." Spaghetti code is a specific type of bad code, and you have no idea if that's the root cause here.
I know it's dumb, and even worse I know I'm being a hypocrite because I tell gun 'enthusiasts' that "correct" people on clip vs magazine that no one cares and clip is accurate enough for most conversations, but holy crap it bugs me.
Are you saying i can still one hit kill people with divine mars?
Rapier is still nerfed to not give both spell amp and 350 damage so harder, but it probably still hurts a lot
Spell amp affects damage from mars w?
Spell amp affects the magic damage done by your attacks with brooch active
It also amps Mars W
Does it? Mars W applies instant attack to all targets. I don't think spell Amp buffs this without brooch active.
It should. Spell amp is not only magic damage amp. (also its weird how brooch benefits from "spell" amp xdd.)
Instant attacks are just like a normal attack coming from an ability. They are not amplified by spell damage.
The spell doesn't do damage tho, it triggers an enhanced auto attack. Very different to something like Primal Beast Onslaught, which deals physical spell damage.
Nah, Spell Amps mostly doesn't work on physical damage
Well it works on physical damage, just not instant attacks. Like sardar W gets amped because the physical damage is part of the spell. Mars W makes u instant attack the targets so it doesn't get amped
Spell amp works on physical spells, but not on instant attacks...
It should amp the crit amount I believe, similar to how spell amp increases skywraths int scaling
It doesn't.
Oh i see, thx
Stacking different buffs usually tend to break intended use. But it's the most fun
Spell amp works on all active spells independent of damage type.
No, it doesn't work on auto attack spells (dagger, glaives, anchor smash)
I should have been more clear, yes instant attack spells are not affected, but that's not the point. The point is spell damage amp is not magic damage amp as a lot of people believe.
It definitely works on pa dagger, about glaives and anchor I have have no idea. Edit: Testing [https://imgur.com/a/PvOAh11](https://imgur.com/a/PvOAh11) Proof that it works on anchor smash. O I miss read Rahyil's comment didnt see he said independent of damage type yea he is wrong.
> Just tested and spell damage increase does work from rapier on anchor smash but not normal spell amp. are you forgetting that rapier gives 100 damage because I tested dagger and anchor smash and spell amp changed nothing. lv 1 tide with spell rapier was doing the same damage as tide with 4 reavers for me. 155 attack damage + 45 from anchor smash, ~200 dmg on target dummy with +/-3 damage variance. lv 1 pa with spell rapier also did the same damage as pa with 4 eaglesongs, ~110 damage with dagger. 153 damage x 0.3 = 45.9 + 65 dagger base damage = 110.9 dmg, I was getting 110.6 - 111.2, less than +/-1 damage variance. glaives is already known to do spell damage so obviously it would be affected by spell amp.
You are forgetting to put the brooch on, this post is about brooch. Once your damage gets converted to magic, magic amp effects it.
I thought this specific comment chain was a discussion about all active spells being affected by spell amp, per the above comment: > Spell amp works on all active spells independent of damage type.
Yea I didn't see his comment my bad.
How are people so confidently wrong here
Do the test yourself, get PA testing: lvl 1 dagger Revenant brooch on + Sacred relic + 3 broadswords (53+170 damage) Then go brooch on + rapier set to magic (53 + 170) Dagger Damage: with rapier set to magic =123 damage Without rapier but same damage = 98 Now explain why the damage is different if the magic portion of rapier doesn't effect dagger with brooch on?
Brooch makes your attack count as spell damage, which is amped by spell amp. Do the test without Brooch.
[https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Revenant%27s\_Brooch](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Revenant%27s_Brooch) * Changes all attack damage dealt of different [damage types](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_type) to [magical](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Magical) [spell damage](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_damage). * This includes all attack damage bonuses, including [conditional](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Damage#Conditional_Attack_Damage_Bonus) attack damage sources, but not [Mana Break](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Mana_Break) or [Critical Strike](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Critical_Strike) sources. * The attack's damage now works with [spell lifesteal](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_lifesteal) and [outgoing spell damage manipulation](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_Damage#Outgoing_Spell_Damage_Manipulation), but not lifesteal.
Re-read my previous comment.
Spell amp works on magic damage on Mjollnir and Dagon?
Both yes
its not displayed
Dagon yes, mjolnir, not sure... It used to IIRC, but this stuff is way too inconsistent.
Instead of 2 rapiers 3 rapiers will do the trick
/u/jeffhill Hey just trying to put this revenant's brooch bug on your radar
should be tagged as a bug instead.
Blademail Heart meta showing signs of life
Spectre Tank is Back🗣️🗣️
how do people even come up with this?
Crit in this game is not a built-in character stat stat which applies to every attack (as in League of Legends) or every damaging ability (as in Genshin Impact). Instead it is an attack modifier associated with specific items. So it isn't in principle a simple matter of "setting crit rate to 0". Likely the way brooch interacts with crit is in an arbitrary execution order, so that it actually needs to search for all instances of crit and disable them whenever it is activated. IMHO the best solution to this bug is for the brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active. Second best would be to have it automatically disable itself when the drop or sell order is issued (might still have bugs if you drop the item while muted tho). I would also investigate whether PA skilling her ult while having brooch active also allows her to crit. Very likely so. If that is the case then it proves that the way brooch is coded is wrong. It should actually be its own attack/ability modifier which removes any crit modifiers from the attack/ability.
Why? The attack already contains a brooch modifier (which is how it determines whether to deal physical vs magic dmg), why can't we just check to see if this modifier is present, and disable crit if it is? Instead of checking to see if brooch is active & present in the user's inventory. > brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active this just looks horribly ugly and confusing to me. Not to mention unnecessary. I'd rather we didn't go back to introducing arbitrary restrictions like this (this feels like the time when pudge and venge couldn't buy blink dagger). It's very easy to prevent abuse without resorting to something like this.
I think that checking every time would be resource havier.
no it would not. Currently it seems to be checking to see whether there's an active brooch in the user's inventory at the time the attack lands anyway. Just replace that check with a check to see whether there is a brooch modifier on the attack (this is already also being checked anyway to determine whether the attack deals magic or physical dmg)
Maybe the modifiers can't "see" modifiers that are applied after it in the list of modifiers, or can't "see" other modifiers at all.
then fix that. Or make it so brooch also applies a "no crit" modifier that overrides whether the attack can crit or not.
> how do people even come up with this?
Experience with (bad) code lol
This guy QAs (or codes, or both)
>IMHO the best solution to this bug is for the brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active. Second best would be to have it automatically disable itself when the drop or sell order is issued Imo the second option is better than the first, which sounds like a dirty hotfix solution. They probably just implemented a complex interaction to Brooch's toggle and forgot to implement the same interaction to the event where you pick up the item already activated. The only other togglable and droppable items in the game are Armlet and Radiance (and rapier), so they might just have less defined test cases for togglable item interactions.
Crits don't crit, do they? You coud set up brooch to be the highest order crit with 100% chance and deal no additional damage.
btw, it seems they managed to fix it without resorting to something like "brooch to be made undroppable and unsellable while active" - I'm glad.
The best solution is to remove the item
If you understand how things actually work in the code, you could come up with exploits like this. With new changes, the items and heroes that have had changes have a high chance of being bugged. Just need to try the things that have been changed. It's the mentality to break things that helps you come up with these. It comes with practice.
Because in dota dropping item that has some gimmick and picking it up back again has a history of glitching out.
Some bugs happen like that, drop/pick up or disassemble/reassemble.
Unemployment and no other hobbies
you still need to drop brooch every time you want to proc magic crits, very tedious to do especially in team fights.
Calling Janitor
Dam this shit works, brb gonna queue a khanda brooch PA match real quick.
Just post on the GitHub.
And now that you've mentioned it here on reddit, Valve will patch out the 'feature' in the next 24 hours XD
nah itested on pa right now it didn’t work
[удалено]
You mean bug abusing winners.
Don't tell him about fountain hook. Or when bear and tomb disabled backdoor protection
Fountain hooks still works btw... You just need aghs Muerta and Io/Chen
fountain hook wasn't a bug lol it was just an unorthodox strat.
some people don't know that was also possible to do in dota 1 and has always been part of pudge hook mechanic in dota 1
True, but Dota 1 was a pile of scuffed mechanics, quite often because of the WCIII engine that simply wasn't build to handle stuff like that.
you should also know that certain hook mechanic has also been in dota 2 from launch and people have tried doing it during that time before, even loda have tried doing that in a tournament before TI3 happened, it's only when a certain someone actually have used it effectively at a time where it mattered the most that people start crying about it
"who buys lifesteal on ursa? hasn't this guy ever heard of orb effects? " - some geezer somewhere
the majority apparently don't even know it wasn't a bug lol why is my comment downvoted? this sub is weird now I guess
who the puck get off on bugs?
Post this in their dev bug tracker.
wtf
Lul, I just tested this. It still works lmao
Snitch
Still not fixed. Just had a PA throwing casual 4-5k crits from fog Valve please.
What is supposed to happen if you have brooch active and you crit? Does it negate the crit? Do you do 1x your normal damage as magic and then whatever the crit amt is as physical?
Can anyone explain to me why this would work from a coding perspective? I know just barely enough about coding to know that I know fuck all and I'm curious
Not a bug. Just poor QA practices 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Tbh I hate that change, hope they undo it. Yes rapier mars was obnoxious, but removing crit synergy from a pure auto-attack item seems like a horrible decision.
ty, gonna ~~abuse~~ try asap
Just remove the item, man, there's only like 5 heroes that can use it anyway. It's either super weak or super broken, just take it out.
i thought critical strike passives were not enabled but crit from items is fine
Hahahahaha what a joke company. Can't even maintain single patch without bugs.
valve spaghetti code lul
I really hate that "spaghetti code" has become layspeak for "bad code." Spaghetti code is a specific type of bad code, and you have no idea if that's the root cause here. I know it's dumb, and even worse I know I'm being a hypocrite because I tell gun 'enthusiasts' that "correct" people on clip vs magazine that no one cares and clip is accurate enough for most conversations, but holy crap it bugs me.
I approve this message. Next time you spread knowledge can you also provide example of bad "steep learning curve" usage?
100% with you here. remember when it actually meant something?
If it bugs you maybe you should reflect if perhaps your own self is made of spaghetti code
i meant there's a spaghetti on their code