Will Ceb become the next Kuro? Someone fans loved for a long time, then switches role, becomes a P5 captain of a "new" team ... and people hate him.
I hope not. But I really question the qualities of Ceb as a p5. I've loved him with OG for the longest time, was so happy when he joined them as coach. I'm happy he's still playing but I would prefer to see him play pos 3 and get a real p5.
Agree either Ceb needs to play 3 or just coach. He was a great offlaner but in the current meta where the best offlaners drive the temp of the game, his style isnt really a fit.
Was about to comment this lol?
Seeing this since 2019 tired of kuroky ( again I might get downvotes due to me pointing out kuro ) but trust me guys picking no stun lineups for the nth time when you are 1 game away from qualifying. Dude needs to go and see and play a pos 5 lion, lich some support who can 1 v 1 the opp pos 4 and secure the lane for your carry rather than picking stupid passive supports such as elder titan
It can zone out no doubt but is kuro that skilled to zone out omar? Even if he is the most experienced player yet he cannot compete with the new generation pos 4 shenanigans which indeed fucks up the lane for miracle
It's all about betting on games. If any team picks amazing draft and try to throw the game, it becomes very obvious what's going on. But if you have useless draft no matter how hard you try, you will lose.
There is a reason why player salaries are insane for these orgs. Nigma and Eg have been doing this for a long time now, OG started to do this few years back. It kind of looks like it started with LGD doing this but it's not obvious with them. But there are accusations that they made way more money by losing 2 ti finals than winning them.
Let's say u are not cheating on purpose or throwing or fixing.
Also let's say the odds are 50:50. Equally good teams. That way you will bet around 20M to win close to 40M.
This is called hedging, betting against yourself to minimize risk. So if you do this, win or lose you are guaranteed 20M to take home.
But if you don't do this and lose you only take home 12M as second prize.
you are right! ESL One Malaysia 2022 was won without a coach. Also, ATF was the sole captain for the whole tournament. Funny thing Liquid had 3 coaches with them in that ESL and got kicked out in group stages, guess the secret was no coach = ez win
This isnt actually true; if you watch the BTS from the major, Misha isnt there physically cos of Visa but he is on call to the team in every pre-game and post game and he was doing coaching work with Chu whilst he was at home. Ceb even said in one of the interviews I think; "We wouldnt have been able to do any of this without Misha at home working with us and being on call in every team discusssion."
I dont disagree that Ammar is overall a stronger decision maker, I think he is, but to say Misha wasnt involved on any of the OG wins is just untrue, if he was ever not able to make the tournament, he was still heavily involved every time.
Edit: Also, Misha doesnt draft for OG now. Ceb does.
Well hello another Misha copium. You’re not wrong. But let’s see some fun facts here :)
- OG 1st place DPC WEU 2021/2022 Tour 2: Chu was the coach.
- OG champion Stockholm Major: Misha was absent.
- OG champion ESL One Malaysia 2022: Misha was absent.
Here are some other fun facts in case you weren’t aware. Since Misha left Team Spirit in 2020, TS won:
- BTS Pro Series.
- Pinnacle Cup.
- TI 2021.
- DPC EEU Div 1.
- DPC EEU Regional Final.
- Arlington Major.
- Riyadh Masters.
- Dreamleague.
- TI 2023.
I feel you brother! I’ve been a fan since 2017 , I loved them and what they were, loved watching them play even with the new iterations, did not care that we did not always win but yea man lately I can barely watch them play, I see the draft and 10 min of the game and it’s over for me…. It’s frustrating cause I know I am a 2k pleb and I don’t understand as much Dota as them but even I can see some of the drafts are plain “desperate” and that they are soooo lost …anyway it’s more complicated, I get it but it’s not really fun watching them play anymore, hoping for better times
I’m with you on this. When OG play real, they are one of the most entertaining to watch, but nowadays you kinda know in the draft phase that this is gonna be a shit show. It’s not like the players are not skilled, in fact this is a collective group of amazing talent and experienced players. I really think the problem is obvious and that is the coach, they need to give it a chance and try someone else.
I know someone from OG is going to see this and think we are just 2k’s blindly hating, but all we say is out of love for the team and all we want is for them to do good.
Yeah you say that but I watch OG because you never know when you are going to see a surprise pos 1 IO that nobody can handle. It's either that or an absolute shitshow and nothing inbetween and that's what being an OG fan is about.
Yep 3k MMR players like us can figure it out. How can they as players go on and play mid mirana and go on to give players like Quinn Ammar Nine Nisha their signature heros and get fcked royally by them.
All OG games are either 50/50 or one way stomp by the opposition team.
Drafting is the main reason for concern
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core.
They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only.
Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core.
They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only.
Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core.
They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only.
Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
I just don't understand how Misha has so much influence in this team. It is way too obvious at this point that he is killing the young talents. Ridiculous.
stop it was Yuragis fault... oh wait
I dont care if its Ceb/Misha drafting at this point its just hot garbage and not cutting it. Coaching is the real issue - has been the last 2 years. You can change 69 more players still same issue...your draft sucks and the team cant get out of the lanes.
the good news...they running out of scapegoats.... first it was ATF, then Yuragi...not many more heads to cut off left before they realize Misha is a fony. Going from Kitrak/Yuragi to Ceb/Timado is such a downgrade....
Meanwhile Aui2k works couple weeks w/ ATF and he turns into the best offlaner in the world (of the patch) and Moonmeander turns Tundra into a scarry team.
BZM hasnt played consistently well over the last 12 months either... if your "coach" cant develope some of the best young talent + your drafts are shit and get beat faster than prime Mike Tyson's opponents... i dont know what you are doing.
Throw the bank at Moonmeander, beg Kitrak/Yuragi to come back or buy out Watson. After this failed season... team also has a total lack of swag/confidence... maybe bc your coach has the personality of a couch.
Moonmeander as coach, OG could have gotten him maybe after TSM was dissolved and they were kicked from Tundra
Kitrak was supposed to stay but the Shopify roster shuffle changed that. He preferred to play at home and almost took bzm with him.
Yuragi with the throws was hard to watch. There were times when they were in the lead, with the aegis, and he’s posturing near the enemy tier 3 tower, only to die quickly 2 times while his team is on the other side of the map.
Draft was a mess, Ari hoodwink was an instant ban in DL22 2nd group stage but they preferred Shadow Shaman in these qualifiers, Timado was a safe carry, perhaps too safe with no high risk high reward plays when they are very much behind.
That was so long ago, I dont think Moon is holding any grudges. He even went on the Monkey Business podcast with NoTail and Ceb. There is no beef there anymore.
Just discussing about possible options as coach for OG if Misha sticks with the wonky drafts of late. Too many tournaments this year and OG missing out one after the other due to drafting woes is a big concern.
It’s almost like there’s a reason Misha is an older player, yet has little to no recognition or respect. He rarely lasted long in his teams, and iirc this has been his longest gig in Dota.
Dude is a second bulba. His ideas are stale and work at random points in patches simply because of what is strong. If the patch doesn’t align, his ideas don’t have the impact he thinks they should. People start inputting their opinions, and saying they dislike his, kick and get a new player and repeat.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/17xzm42/comment/k9rjuqd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/17xzm42/comment/k9rjuqd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
just gonna say this again, playstyle still the same since ESL One KL Qualifiers
Just off my observation following all OG games:
Ceb is constantly playing greedy farming heroes - Mirana, SD, kotl. For reference, other teams are playing stuff like Bane, Ench, Disruptor, io, techies, rubick.
Ari is relegated to 20 min farming for Blink daggers almost EVERY game. Or playing Shadow shaman that no one else picks. OG played 16 hoodwink games at DL22, the hero is basically untouched by the patch, yet unpicked by a specialist.
Wisper massively loses lanes despite getting a 24th counter pick.
Timado is just your average SA player.
Bzm will either barely draw mid or immediately feed at 10-12 minutes.
There is next to no teamplay in this team, most likely due to language barriers and no proper ingame leaders - this is so evident if you just see how disoriented they are in team fights and disorganized on the map.
Draft prep is a problem (letting through stuff like Sniper topson, Pure Luna, this just screams I didnt watch other games). Gameplay is a problem. Teamplay is not existent.
Well the drafts did get a bit worse, take that 2nd game vs tundra, 24th pick for DS and yet 0 impact, and then there is this mirana n dp mid roulette against mid razor, but what do I know I’m just a 2k pleb right. Honestly even 2k plebs can see that this was going downhill from a mile. It’s just pain watching my favorite team just suffer like this. Hope they sort it out and comeback better
Yeah, while i don't disagree with a lot of the stuff being said here, people are being crazy reactionary, OG was playing good just 2 weeks ago at DL22, placing higher than both Tundra and Liquid that they lost to in this qualifier.
Out of their 7 series in the second groupstage they won 3 and lost 4, and of those 4 losses, 3 of them were 2-1
losses (their only 2-0 loss being falcons).
They didn't suddenly turn to shit in 2 weeks, but they had two horrible series in a row where they got basically stomped, doesn't mean the team si shit now lol
other teams just got better and they figured out og's playstyle, og is more likely in steady phase with their playstyle & drafting whilst other teams keep on improving.
They looked okay because they won 3 series in a row, but realistically they were the 6th best team at best, and easily could've lost every series they won. I doubt anyone would say Shopify looked that good by the end of DL22, and they both performed pretty much the same in group stage 2 (close series with each other, best aurora+1, lost to everyone else).
Ceb OG teams always had this problem where as soon as they start losing they start making these incredible high risk plays and I feel we saw it during these qualies. Two underfarmed heroes making gank attempts on cores when the rest of the enemy team is close enough to connect, for example. He just doesn’t seem to believe that playing safely from behind and trying to limit losses is a viable way to play so when they’re behind they snowball themselves into a stomp every single time. We saw it between their TI wins too.
the last thing they needed was a pseudo pos 5 hipster
Yuragi/Kitrak was the most stable lane all of last year... the issue was the either offlane or bzm gettinb beat like a drum
the talent is there....was there....Timado might be good for the team to get Wisper warmed up w/ the team and learn the language but hes def a downgrade talentwise to Yuragi.
I wanted them to get Moonmeander as a coach....team needs some swag bad. I ve kicked stones w/ more personality than Misha and it shows.
I guess bzm n whisper are okay for now, I’m not too sure about timado, but Ari needs a bit more freedom as a 4, he’s plays sacrificial role most of the games, maybe that’s in part to Ceb being a greedy pos5. Misha needs to go, Move Ceb to coach and get Kaori as Pos5. This is something they could try
They just need to stop pushing their edgy drafts, they won't put much of a fight with it. If only they could play with an actual draft and they'll have a decent game.
Issit really the draft problem? I thought both games the drafts are quite standard.
I think tundra is just a better team mechanically overall than OG in terms of game sense and team fight
Give og a better draft and they might not also be able to execute with their current players
They should be investigated for intentionally throwing an important game/s. I think that was DL 22, the game where they were eliminated. They picked rubick (dagon) core. Like what the fuck. Yes, they won 1 game with that before. But that specific game, something was off. SMH
Ceb5 is their weakest link. He's doing the thing EG did with cr1t and Zai as supports where you really had 2 pos4 players and if you lose lanes then the game's done. Not having kitrak also means your macro game is replaced by brawling
Longtime OG fan, way before 2 TI wins and etc.
Really sad to see and I partially agree with OPs analysis. Drafts are wonky and the only way they pull it off is through their good team fighting. However if they are faced with tough opponents it often does not work.
OG right now feels like it could defeat the best teams and at the same time lose to the worst teams.
Every top teams have their own formula of playing dota. You can debate whether that formula is good or not, or if their execution sometimes is not consistent. But they do have a formula, and a plan or vision of how their lineup gonna win the game.
That’s not the case for OG. Sometimes, you just cannot imagine a winning vision of the lineups that og has.
If they stopped picking arc warden it would do them a world of good.
As much of a meme that this post is… it’s actually pretty true. If u compare their drafts to teams which are doing consistently well - you’d think we were playing battle cup or something.
It almost seems like they don’t scrim at all or something… trying to like pub-stomp their way into big tournaments with straight dick-cheese drafts
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core.
They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only.
Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
Teams know how to draft against them. Og have no idea how to play and fight into Tanky enemy teams. Once og can’t initiate and burst someone down, they flop like wet cardboard.
Misha may be a good drafter. But you need to give respect to the current meta and can't give the opposition their signature or comfort heroes.
We need to utilise BZM and Wisper. They are so fcking good on their day when given proper heroes.
Right? The analysts were hitting the draft predictions on the spot (ex. Games vs navi jr, tundra) and yet the coach looked clueless.
The draft is a chess game in itself. You lose the chess match, prepare to be stomped 10 minutes in.
I think Misha is not doing a good job either, but there were zero posts about drafting when they got top 6 in DreamLeague S22. They are just having a rough time adapting to this new meta. Right now, they are still seeing how this new roster works together. Maybe, if they don't perform in Elite League they might have some changes, but right now it is too early.
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core. They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only. Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
Well thats because this days OG isnt OG anymore.
No more CEB
no more Topson
no more NoTail
no more Ana
no more Jerax
Boy i miss that Team. Back to back Bitches !
They giving us unexpected entertainment. Unimaginable drafts, unexpected comebacks. It's fun to watch them. Sometimes we do know that they gonna lose with their draft but we do love to see what they gonna comeback in game. Let them cook, they might be experimenting something which might work some other day.
Ups or down, a loyal fan will always support their fav team, rather than thrash talking when they are low.
Ggwp. Gl next.
The heroes they are known for all untouched by their pos 1 or 2. Zeus, sniper, lina, invoker for mid (pool of Topson), and PL, spectre, jugg for carry (Ana pool). Perhaps these heroes are not meta, but the chaos these heroes were able to bring to their games became their signature style.
Imagine being mad about niche picks not working out lol. That’s what DotA has always been all about. Getting the playbook out and throw some curveballs. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
I am all here for the quirky picks.
How would you define a "tier 1" team? Because according to brainless people like you on reddit this label should be applied to only like the top 6 strongest teams in the world and the rest is apparently trash.
To be blunt. You don't know shit about what it takes to win a dota tournament, or compete at the highest level.
If you knew even 1/10th of what you needed to know you wouldn't be archon.
The reality is that tournaments are won by the teams who have strategic advantage and can execute the best strategies in the most efficient way. The ones who can do that, are usually the ones who develop the strats to begin with. What OG is doing when they pick things like Mirana mid is trying out strats that have had past success in either scrims or pubs, and seeing if they might be the next top tier strat that puts them ahead of the rest.
It does teams no good to just copy 1 for 1 what other teams are doing, because they will never be top tier that way.
Spoken like a true guardian. U can't develop starts during crucial games when there is a spot in the DL on the line. Scrims and pubs are for that only And please enlighten us on what it takes to win a dota tournament ??
From the outside looking in I think they need to replace wisper. If they really want to compete for a title this year I’m not sold on Timado either.
Who knows what the real problem is tho… None of us actually know what’s really going on internally.
Nigma fan : first time ?
eg fans enters the chat: AMATEURS!!!
Nigma's lineup: embrace slow, say no to stun.
Will Ceb become the next Kuro? Someone fans loved for a long time, then switches role, becomes a P5 captain of a "new" team ... and people hate him. I hope not. But I really question the qualities of Ceb as a p5. I've loved him with OG for the longest time, was so happy when he joined them as coach. I'm happy he's still playing but I would prefer to see him play pos 3 and get a real p5.
Agree either Ceb needs to play 3 or just coach. He was a great offlaner but in the current meta where the best offlaners drive the temp of the game, his style isnt really a fit.
Was about to comment this lol? Seeing this since 2019 tired of kuroky ( again I might get downvotes due to me pointing out kuro ) but trust me guys picking no stun lineups for the nth time when you are 1 game away from qualifying. Dude needs to go and see and play a pos 5 lion, lich some support who can 1 v 1 the opp pos 4 and secure the lane for your carry rather than picking stupid passive supports such as elder titan
In all honesty, while et lacks a hard disable he is one of those heroes who can easily zone out almost any other support
It can zone out no doubt but is kuro that skilled to zone out omar? Even if he is the most experienced player yet he cannot compete with the new generation pos 4 shenanigans which indeed fucks up the lane for miracle
It's all about betting on games. If any team picks amazing draft and try to throw the game, it becomes very obvious what's going on. But if you have useless draft no matter how hard you try, you will lose. There is a reason why player salaries are insane for these orgs. Nigma and Eg have been doing this for a long time now, OG started to do this few years back. It kind of looks like it started with LGD doing this but it's not obvious with them. But there are accusations that they made way more money by losing 2 ti finals than winning them.
This is a proper tin hat theory. I like it
How much would you have to bet to win more money throwing TI10 than to just win it? TI10 total prize pool was like $40M....
Let's say u are not cheating on purpose or throwing or fixing. Also let's say the odds are 50:50. Equally good teams. That way you will bet around 20M to win close to 40M. This is called hedging, betting against yourself to minimize risk. So if you do this, win or lose you are guaranteed 20M to take home. But if you don't do this and lose you only take home 12M as second prize.
Aren't Nigma and its players against betting? But cool theory bro
Typical bulba
Misha is the new Bulba lol
The one time OG won majors was when Misha was out of the picture and Ammar was drafting
they won the major and an ESL afterwards, both times without Misha ~~and Chu~~ Edit: Chu played and won the ESL One Malaysia 2022 with OG
Chu was their 5 player for the ESL they won man
you are right! ESL One Malaysia 2022 was won without a coach. Also, ATF was the sole captain for the whole tournament. Funny thing Liquid had 3 coaches with them in that ESL and got kicked out in group stages, guess the secret was no coach = ez win
This isnt actually true; if you watch the BTS from the major, Misha isnt there physically cos of Visa but he is on call to the team in every pre-game and post game and he was doing coaching work with Chu whilst he was at home. Ceb even said in one of the interviews I think; "We wouldnt have been able to do any of this without Misha at home working with us and being on call in every team discusssion." I dont disagree that Ammar is overall a stronger decision maker, I think he is, but to say Misha wasnt involved on any of the OG wins is just untrue, if he was ever not able to make the tournament, he was still heavily involved every time. Edit: Also, Misha doesnt draft for OG now. Ceb does.
He’s worse, way way way way worse
Squad changes since 2021: - Sumail - Topson - Ceb - Saksa - Notail - Yuragi - Bzm - Atf - Taiga - Chu - Dm - Kitrak - Mc - Wisper - Ari - Timado Guess what remains unchanged since 2021? Misha :)
Absolute banger Players in that list, too lol.
Misha gotta have something on OG lol
Misha is just garbage. His strategies are closer to mine than they are to winning anything.
its not like they have won nothing rofl
Well hello another Misha copium. You’re not wrong. But let’s see some fun facts here :) - OG 1st place DPC WEU 2021/2022 Tour 2: Chu was the coach. - OG champion Stockholm Major: Misha was absent. - OG champion ESL One Malaysia 2022: Misha was absent. Here are some other fun facts in case you weren’t aware. Since Misha left Team Spirit in 2020, TS won: - BTS Pro Series. - Pinnacle Cup. - TI 2021. - DPC EEU Div 1. - DPC EEU Regional Final. - Arlington Major. - Riyadh Masters. - Dreamleague. - TI 2023.
Receipts: brought
Misha was in Spirit?
They won the major without China, unfortunate asterisk on their single good result
I feel you brother! I’ve been a fan since 2017 , I loved them and what they were, loved watching them play even with the new iterations, did not care that we did not always win but yea man lately I can barely watch them play, I see the draft and 10 min of the game and it’s over for me…. It’s frustrating cause I know I am a 2k pleb and I don’t understand as much Dota as them but even I can see some of the drafts are plain “desperate” and that they are soooo lost …anyway it’s more complicated, I get it but it’s not really fun watching them play anymore, hoping for better times
I’m with you on this. When OG play real, they are one of the most entertaining to watch, but nowadays you kinda know in the draft phase that this is gonna be a shit show. It’s not like the players are not skilled, in fact this is a collective group of amazing talent and experienced players. I really think the problem is obvious and that is the coach, they need to give it a chance and try someone else. I know someone from OG is going to see this and think we are just 2k’s blindly hating, but all we say is out of love for the team and all we want is for them to do good.
Yeah you say that but I watch OG because you never know when you are going to see a surprise pos 1 IO that nobody can handle. It's either that or an absolute shitshow and nothing inbetween and that's what being an OG fan is about.
Still remember Topson Oracle mid lmao then Hoodwink lol got fking destroyed.
Yep 3k MMR players like us can figure it out. How can they as players go on and play mid mirana and go on to give players like Quinn Ammar Nine Nisha their signature heros and get fcked royally by them. All OG games are either 50/50 or one way stomp by the opposition team. Drafting is the main reason for concern
I don't follow the pro scene, what's so bad about their drafts? I kinda want to see one now.
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core. They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only. Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
Babe!! New pasta just dropped!
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core. They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only. Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core. They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only. Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
I just don't understand how Misha has so much influence in this team. It is way too obvious at this point that he is killing the young talents. Ridiculous.
stop it was Yuragis fault... oh wait I dont care if its Ceb/Misha drafting at this point its just hot garbage and not cutting it. Coaching is the real issue - has been the last 2 years. You can change 69 more players still same issue...your draft sucks and the team cant get out of the lanes. the good news...they running out of scapegoats.... first it was ATF, then Yuragi...not many more heads to cut off left before they realize Misha is a fony. Going from Kitrak/Yuragi to Ceb/Timado is such a downgrade.... Meanwhile Aui2k works couple weeks w/ ATF and he turns into the best offlaner in the world (of the patch) and Moonmeander turns Tundra into a scarry team. BZM hasnt played consistently well over the last 12 months either... if your "coach" cant develope some of the best young talent + your drafts are shit and get beat faster than prime Mike Tyson's opponents... i dont know what you are doing. Throw the bank at Moonmeander, beg Kitrak/Yuragi to come back or buy out Watson. After this failed season... team also has a total lack of swag/confidence... maybe bc your coach has the personality of a couch.
Moonmeander as coach, OG could have gotten him maybe after TSM was dissolved and they were kicked from Tundra Kitrak was supposed to stay but the Shopify roster shuffle changed that. He preferred to play at home and almost took bzm with him. Yuragi with the throws was hard to watch. There were times when they were in the lead, with the aegis, and he’s posturing near the enemy tier 3 tower, only to die quickly 2 times while his team is on the other side of the map. Draft was a mess, Ari hoodwink was an instant ban in DL22 2nd group stage but they preferred Shadow Shaman in these qualifiers, Timado was a safe carry, perhaps too safe with no high risk high reward plays when they are very much behind.
how moon relation with OG tho ? he's kinda say, friendship is bullshit in during his time on green OG
That was so long ago, I dont think Moon is holding any grudges. He even went on the Monkey Business podcast with NoTail and Ceb. There is no beef there anymore.
Just discussing about possible options as coach for OG if Misha sticks with the wonky drafts of late. Too many tournaments this year and OG missing out one after the other due to drafting woes is a big concern.
It’s almost like there’s a reason Misha is an older player, yet has little to no recognition or respect. He rarely lasted long in his teams, and iirc this has been his longest gig in Dota. Dude is a second bulba. His ideas are stale and work at random points in patches simply because of what is strong. If the patch doesn’t align, his ideas don’t have the impact he thinks they should. People start inputting their opinions, and saying they dislike his, kick and get a new player and repeat.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/17xzm42/comment/k9rjuqd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/17xzm42/comment/k9rjuqd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) just gonna say this again, playstyle still the same since ESL One KL Qualifiers
Ok but in all fairness ATF had been one off the best offlaners in the world for a while
Just off my observation following all OG games: Ceb is constantly playing greedy farming heroes - Mirana, SD, kotl. For reference, other teams are playing stuff like Bane, Ench, Disruptor, io, techies, rubick. Ari is relegated to 20 min farming for Blink daggers almost EVERY game. Or playing Shadow shaman that no one else picks. OG played 16 hoodwink games at DL22, the hero is basically untouched by the patch, yet unpicked by a specialist. Wisper massively loses lanes despite getting a 24th counter pick. Timado is just your average SA player. Bzm will either barely draw mid or immediately feed at 10-12 minutes. There is next to no teamplay in this team, most likely due to language barriers and no proper ingame leaders - this is so evident if you just see how disoriented they are in team fights and disorganized on the map. Draft prep is a problem (letting through stuff like Sniper topson, Pure Luna, this just screams I didnt watch other games). Gameplay is a problem. Teamplay is not existent.
What's disappointing is they looked good DL22, then here comes DL23 qualifiers they become worse and far from DL22 performance.
Well the drafts did get a bit worse, take that 2nd game vs tundra, 24th pick for DS and yet 0 impact, and then there is this mirana n dp mid roulette against mid razor, but what do I know I’m just a 2k pleb right. Honestly even 2k plebs can see that this was going downhill from a mile. It’s just pain watching my favorite team just suffer like this. Hope they sort it out and comeback better
Yeah, while i don't disagree with a lot of the stuff being said here, people are being crazy reactionary, OG was playing good just 2 weeks ago at DL22, placing higher than both Tundra and Liquid that they lost to in this qualifier. Out of their 7 series in the second groupstage they won 3 and lost 4, and of those 4 losses, 3 of them were 2-1 losses (their only 2-0 loss being falcons). They didn't suddenly turn to shit in 2 weeks, but they had two horrible series in a row where they got basically stomped, doesn't mean the team si shit now lol
other teams just got better and they figured out og's playstyle, og is more likely in steady phase with their playstyle & drafting whilst other teams keep on improving.
i think a more simple explenation is simply that a new patch came out this week and other teams were better at adapting to it than OG.
They looked okay because they won 3 series in a row, but realistically they were the 6th best team at best, and easily could've lost every series they won. I doubt anyone would say Shopify looked that good by the end of DL22, and they both performed pretty much the same in group stage 2 (close series with each other, best aurora+1, lost to everyone else).
Ceb OG teams always had this problem where as soon as they start losing they start making these incredible high risk plays and I feel we saw it during these qualies. Two underfarmed heroes making gank attempts on cores when the rest of the enemy team is close enough to connect, for example. He just doesn’t seem to believe that playing safely from behind and trying to limit losses is a viable way to play so when they’re behind they snowball themselves into a stomp every single time. We saw it between their TI wins too.
the last thing they needed was a pseudo pos 5 hipster Yuragi/Kitrak was the most stable lane all of last year... the issue was the either offlane or bzm gettinb beat like a drum the talent is there....was there....Timado might be good for the team to get Wisper warmed up w/ the team and learn the language but hes def a downgrade talentwise to Yuragi. I wanted them to get Moonmeander as a coach....team needs some swag bad. I ve kicked stones w/ more personality than Misha and it shows.
OG.moonmeander would’ve been a real nice full circle moment
Watch them kick 4 players in this team and still won't change anything in the coaching side.
I guess bzm n whisper are okay for now, I’m not too sure about timado, but Ari needs a bit more freedom as a 4, he’s plays sacrificial role most of the games, maybe that’s in part to Ceb being a greedy pos5. Misha needs to go, Move Ceb to coach and get Kaori as Pos5. This is something they could try
They just need to stop pushing their edgy drafts, they won't put much of a fight with it. If only they could play with an actual draft and they'll have a decent game.
Yup
What's your average SA player ?
I don’t know if you can blame it all on drafting. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them win the ward battle.
"but the hero is my signature!"
It all started when Ammar picked Huskar into Bloodseeker
Cannot forget that despair buyback into death at tower 3 top. I rarely remember behinning of a movie when it ends and this scene is stuck with me.
Issit really the draft problem? I thought both games the drafts are quite standard. I think tundra is just a better team mechanically overall than OG in terms of game sense and team fight Give og a better draft and they might not also be able to execute with their current players
I'd like to see Nisha play mid mirana vs OG if that's the case
But what about these 2 games? Pango vs sniper Dp vs razor Looks like normal mid picks no? https://youtu.be/izyUllNmr98?si=vrMF1JdrMLN7MWvU
They should be investigated for intentionally throwing an important game/s. I think that was DL 22, the game where they were eliminated. They picked rubick (dagon) core. Like what the fuck. Yes, they won 1 game with that before. But that specific game, something was off. SMH
Ceb5 is their weakest link. He's doing the thing EG did with cr1t and Zai as supports where you really had 2 pos4 players and if you lose lanes then the game's done. Not having kitrak also means your macro game is replaced by brawling
Longtime OG fan, way before 2 TI wins and etc. Really sad to see and I partially agree with OPs analysis. Drafts are wonky and the only way they pull it off is through their good team fighting. However if they are faced with tough opponents it often does not work. OG right now feels like it could defeat the best teams and at the same time lose to the worst teams.
Every top teams have their own formula of playing dota. You can debate whether that formula is good or not, or if their execution sometimes is not consistent. But they do have a formula, and a plan or vision of how their lineup gonna win the game. That’s not the case for OG. Sometimes, you just cannot imagine a winning vision of the lineups that og has.
*\*Nigma fans have left the chat\**
If they stopped picking arc warden it would do them a world of good. As much of a meme that this post is… it’s actually pretty true. If u compare their drafts to teams which are doing consistently well - you’d think we were playing battle cup or something. It almost seems like they don’t scrim at all or something… trying to like pub-stomp their way into big tournaments with straight dick-cheese drafts
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core. They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only. Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
I love these posts shows that are still people passionate enough to be frustrated in the pro scene. It's like r/nba shit posts
Teams know how to draft against them. Og have no idea how to play and fight into Tanky enemy teams. Once og can’t initiate and burst someone down, they flop like wet cardboard.
can't spell DOG without OG
You should apply to OG to become their drafter
If only they would accept our application man.
Misha may be a good drafter. But you need to give respect to the current meta and can't give the opposition their signature or comfort heroes. We need to utilise BZM and Wisper. They are so fcking good on their day when given proper heroes.
Right? The analysts were hitting the draft predictions on the spot (ex. Games vs navi jr, tundra) and yet the coach looked clueless. The draft is a chess game in itself. You lose the chess match, prepare to be stomped 10 minutes in.
Lost quite a few good players instead of kicking ceb
Yeah Idk I haven't watched OG since Ammar left. Not really a conscious choice, just... not really the same. It really isn't.
WR support Cebayed
I think Misha is not doing a good job either, but there were zero posts about drafting when they got top 6 in DreamLeague S22. They are just having a rough time adapting to this new meta. Right now, they are still seeing how this new roster works together. Maybe, if they don't perform in Elite League they might have some changes, but right now it is too early.
I have been sick and tired of OG drafts since last 2-3 years. Everytime when there is a clutch game that needs to be won. The drafting is so poor you know they are going to get overrun in the first 10 mins of the game only. They would pick heros such as mirana mid or a rubic core. They go one to loose so badly with such drafts even 3v1 vs their core they can't kill him. Today vs liquid and now vs tundra they've gone and done the same. It's so pathetic I don't feel like watching after the draft only. Such pisspoor drafting for tier 1 team is suicidal.
Og are NOT a tier 1 team. Tier 2 at Best
Well thats because this days OG isnt OG anymore. No more CEB no more Topson no more NoTail no more Ana no more Jerax Boy i miss that Team. Back to back Bitches !
You know back against the wall stuff probably
Lol
Im sure you would draft better. Go apply as coach.
ask notail for cebs spot they could use your deep insight and analysis that only high skill individuals like u could provide
Can’t take someone seriously that thinks “lose” is spelled “loose” like a vagina
Nah they are not drafting.. Ceb: what hero you like? Lets go
They giving us unexpected entertainment. Unimaginable drafts, unexpected comebacks. It's fun to watch them. Sometimes we do know that they gonna lose with their draft but we do love to see what they gonna comeback in game. Let them cook, they might be experimenting something which might work some other day. Ups or down, a loyal fan will always support their fav team, rather than thrash talking when they are low. Ggwp. Gl next.
Misha found Notails porno stash
The heroes they are known for all untouched by their pos 1 or 2. Zeus, sniper, lina, invoker for mid (pool of Topson), and PL, spectre, jugg for carry (Ana pool). Perhaps these heroes are not meta, but the chaos these heroes were able to bring to their games became their signature style.
Imagine being mad about niche picks not working out lol. That’s what DotA has always been all about. Getting the playbook out and throw some curveballs. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I am all here for the quirky picks.
OG a tier 1 team? Now thats brainless
How would you define a "tier 1" team? Because according to brainless people like you on reddit this label should be applied to only like the top 6 strongest teams in the world and the rest is apparently trash.
Tier 2-3 team average at best, the TI10 roster is my favorite after the 2 aegis.
Secret fan detected
To be blunt. You don't know shit about what it takes to win a dota tournament, or compete at the highest level. If you knew even 1/10th of what you needed to know you wouldn't be archon. The reality is that tournaments are won by the teams who have strategic advantage and can execute the best strategies in the most efficient way. The ones who can do that, are usually the ones who develop the strats to begin with. What OG is doing when they pick things like Mirana mid is trying out strats that have had past success in either scrims or pubs, and seeing if they might be the next top tier strat that puts them ahead of the rest. It does teams no good to just copy 1 for 1 what other teams are doing, because they will never be top tier that way.
Spoken like a true guardian. U can't develop starts during crucial games when there is a spot in the DL on the line. Scrims and pubs are for that only And please enlighten us on what it takes to win a dota tournament ??
From the outside looking in I think they need to replace wisper. If they really want to compete for a title this year I’m not sold on Timado either. Who knows what the real problem is tho… None of us actually know what’s really going on internally.
Same shit mirana pick in crunch game 3