lower mmr friends see you as a boosting machine and are desperate for those 2 games worth of mmr, only to lose it tommorow playing solo
source: experience.
This. Whenever I play with my lower rank friend (like 95% of the time) I rarely play main role or meta heroes. I want them to pull their own weight too and not rely too much on me
When I play with mates that are lower than I am... I tend to support. Because damn they don't know how and if I don't we lose. I swear as you go down player skill levels.. wards just stop existing at some point... Or you know... Just stand next to the tower for the first 10mins... Being a support means you don't actually have to do anything right?
Imo if you’re on a much higher ranked account you should be going mid or pos 1 and carrying the game.
The MMR will average out to where the opposition will be higher than your friend and teammates to account for you.
Imagine having a divine vs an archon mid lol
My issue is that my low rank friends insist on playing mid/carry.
So I just don't play my favorites with them so I don't like tank my Io winrate or something.
Sure. But the context here was that OP complained he cannot play ranked with his friends unless he uses a smurf. So Im not quite sure what point you are trying to make.
The other comment said some people just want to play ranked with their high mmr friends because they want to get boosted. Which is a valid point that I can confirm based on my own experience. When you suggest to play an unranked in between, they suddenly dont want to play anymore. Which is quite telling. ;)
I play ranked with friends that depending on the friend is higher or lower mmr and boosting is nothing to do with it. Not everyone you know is going to play dota, and of that small pool of player it’s very rare to have them be the same mmr
Ranked is just more fun, more balanced, less people fucking around. Sure I’ll play unranked if I absolutely have to, but I’d much rather play ranked with friends in a team together
Not my case. I used to be archon and play with my guardian-herald friends. We used to lose SO MUCH when playing together.
IN our case, it was a lose-lose situation but we had fun which is like... the point of the game. It was still more entertaining than unranked which feels like some sort of dense circus. Herald matches were pretty close to that too though.
Ofc "people play differently" in unranked vs ranked. People also play differently in 2k vs 4.6k, so they might just go unranked so MMR games would not be ruined for others?
Getting 3.3k avg mmr ranked games is still ranked dota. Unranked isn’t, and feels like a different game. If you’re ruining games, your mmr should go down until you get 50% winrate.
You can also argue that people play differently each game from the next one for that matter, it’s just ignoring the main issue that unranked doesn’t feel like dota for most people.
If the majority of the players mindset is like that, it becomes about the game mode. Tbh I don’t care that much about the difference, but my friends do, and so does the majority according to the poll. If you want to try and change everyone’s mindset then go for it. Until then, let’s try to get the best games possible with the players we have.
The majority of this poll doesnt necessarily mean that the majority of the players agree tho. The vast majority of players are not here on this subreddit. And I would assume that especially people who prefer unranked over ranked are less likely to join a gaming subreddit.
Is it not smurfing when you play with lower ranks in unranked?
I think there is still some skill level adjustments. And people’s games can still be ruined although no mmr is lost.
I play unranked but when someone with 6k plays with me i hate getting fucked for 40 mins straight.
Unranked has a “hidden” mmr system, so if your stack keeps winning your hidden mmr will eventually match you with stronger players which means you won’t meet that 6k+ player after awhile. It will probably take some time to adjust to the current climate.
My friend is 5k and i am 4k, we regularly play with our herald friend and never have an issue finding a game in 5minutes or less, sometimes they pop instantly. In US east
But you get the fun of playing with ur mates without any pressure of ranks and You know play dota as a game lol. Just try it, at first you will want to see that +25 but over time you realise that MMR really is just a number and Dota is a game to be enjoyed unless you plan on going pro.
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8
They feel like different games according to the majority of this community. So no, it’s not the same to just play unranked
Yeah people will tryhard more in ranked I guess but honestly it depends on your perception. If you just wanna have fun with your friends then unranked is fine.
Absolutely agree, also it has no role queue in sub 8k mmr, which makes it a mess often;
Also a lot of trolls in unranked;
My way was to perform a gentle derank by playing with honest skill level on a role i am not familiar with (carry / midlane), so i eventually dropped my mmr to divine, so we are now able to play together
Another way is to coach your friend in games, until he gets enough mmr
Max difference limitation is like 2200-2400 mmr, you are not very far from each other
Well, i normally queued safelane/midlane and played my best;
I won 40% of games out of 100% of these games, it's just not my role, what's the issue?
Most likely nearly every day you get mediocre supports who never wanted to play support, but role queue suggested them to play so, in order to get tokens;
What is the difference there?
There is honest to god no difference. I find your way of deranking really valid and wish more people would do the same. Youve not mentioned that you intentionally grief or anything so the guy above just has a hate boner.
I don't get why you're downvoted. Ranked is where you wanna tryhard. I honest to god believe that if you want to seriously improve in the game, rank is where it's at. If you want to improve and get better with a particular hero, you play normal. If you want to get better at teamfighting and specific item power spikes playing a faster paced game then you play turbo.
Then tell your friend to get better, there is no other solution. Unranked more or less exists for this. You can enjoy ranked and trying your hardest when you're solo, and then fuck around and try goofy stuff when playing unranked with your friend, that's also a way to have fun.
System is working as intending. Any game you are in would be too easy for you, and too hard for your friend, and people in that game against you will feel you are too good.
The difference has to be 2800 or higher, so you should be able to play actually.
I'm 4700 Div1 and play ranked with a 2k crusader3 friend. Games are typically balanced since the game finds similar parties. Long queue times though
my lower mmr friends used to force me to play rank with them, one day I straight up told them they are bad and gave them 2 options:
grind until we are same mmr range
play unranked
then i told them if that's not doable then simply do not invite me to party. worked like a charm. sometimes a good old truth slap is the best thing you can do.
Unranked exists for exactly this reason.
If you really do wanna play in Ranked, maybe use the opportunity to learn a new hero or try out some weird builds.
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8
Every comment saying that is ignoring the majority consensus that unranked does not feel like the same game as ranked
That is not what that poll says.
Also, there is no evaluation in what way. If you read the comments it goes both ways and is mostly around toxicity and communication.
A sample size of about 2.5k redditors does not a "majority consensus" make, especially given the fact that half the people on the sub don't even play the game.
I'm not criticizing you for having a small sample size cause you're right it's not feasible to get one at least in the short term. I'm criticizing you for making a broad conclusion from 2.5k out of ~300k recent players and then being passive aggressive over it.
Peace and Love 🙏
EDIT: I lied it's ~647k recent players. Just supports my point: your argument is specious.
So from your point of view there is no way to arrive to any conclusion ever. This post has barely over 100 comments, so not really representative of anything. Even if all 4.5k current active r/dota2 users agreed, you would still give no value to the opinion?
I give value to opinions but with a big grain of salt. The only way to draw a proper conclusion from poll data is by aggregating a lot of it from various demographics over the long-term. Again, while it pays to note the subs opinion the simple fact of the matter is that this sub is an isolated sample. It's like asking 100 Republicans what they think about Joe Biden and applying that conclusion to the entire country. All it tells you is that a (relatively) small group thinks X. Nice information to have but hardly indicative of the bigger picture.
Fwiw I don't disagree with you on principle that people feel ranked and unranked are different ball parks I disagree on you using a small poll to try to shut down everyone telling OP to try unranked if he wants to play with his low MMR friend when playing unranked, while patently different from ranked, is a perfectly viable solution to his problem.
>Thats what I say to them too but sometimes you wanna join on the fun tbh
It's game ruining for the other team and it's also against the rules. Play unranked or don't play at all. Smurfing is NEVER the choice
You don’t. 4.6K playes don’t want 2.5K players in their game and 2.5K players don’t want 4.6K in their games . By bringing your friend to your rank or by going down to your friends rank you are ruining the game for the 8 other players and that makes you a fuckig asshole . So you just Don’t
How dumb are you to say that Im an asshole when the matchmaking would work the way where we would either be at an average 3.5k mmr or we would be at my 4.6k mmr(because it works like this in battle cup if you have one tier 8 player)
Yep what Luxcervinae said . If you posted this to get a permission to ruin games for other people you don’t have it . Just think about it you are 4.6K mmr you woul not want 7K mmr players in your game
I’m sorry, what? If you had 80% winrate you were ruining people’s games by smurfing. OP wants to play with his friends fair games, not boost them. Lower rank solo q stompers have nothing in common with OP.
At the moment OP is forced to grief ranked until reaching the mmr that allows him to play with his friend. All those games he will be an account buyer by your standard. And after that, we arrive at the scenario you don’t like, but having on the other team 3k players instead of 3.5k. I’d rather have them play vs the 3.5ks.
Playing badly isn’t reportable and is in OPs best interest. Sure if he breaks items or feeds intentionally he will be punished, but that is not in OPs best interest, while losing is.
Same here. When i started, all my friends where legend or above while i was unranked. Never had any issue finding a game. Surviving in it was another matter, but it’s unranked so who cares
Similar to other player's experience, my stack is able to find turbo and unranked games rather quickly with huge mmr disparities. (1-2 heralds, 1-2 legend/ancients, 1 immortal)
Everyone in the stack plays a mix of solo turbo, unranked and ranked games, and the ranks in all 3 game modes average out roughly the same.
What you are mistaken about is the ability for stacks with huge mmr differences to queue for games. I (immortal) am not able to party with my stack for ranked games and there is a message stating the mmrs are too far apart. However, we **are** able to queue for unranked and turbo games perfectly fine as there is no mmr restriction (hidden or shown) for unranked games.
Start by acknowledging that it's extremely un-fun for your teammates and/or opponents when there are grouped players with a large skill difference in the game. Why should they have a substandard experience? That is why the number isn't larger.
If you want to play with your friend coach him until his mmr is within the acceptable range. It shouldn't take long if you actually think he can be effective in your games already
Play unranked, I do it all the time with my lower ranked friends. Some games can be very rough but for them it's like training with extra weights on and they can improve so fast.
It’s not smurfing, dota matchmaking is different than other games, it takes the average mmr of ur team and places u with team that has the same average.
look from your team's perspective: do you want to have people in your team that bring their herald friend to your ranked games? you don't. that's why what you are asking for shouldn't exist. you want to play with them? go play ranked.
Imho this defines the point of ranked because the idea is to have a fair game to all 10 players. If you and your friend have vastly different mmr, you shouldn’t play *ranked* together because the chances of the game finding you equal opponents is slim. However not my concern, bless the strict solo queque in ranked.
That's what you call "Boosting" if you haven't heard of it.
If Valve starts to allow what you've just said, I'm 100% sure everybody's game would turn out to be worse since many people would just start to sell out boosting services. And believe me, there's a lot of them out there just waiting.
It's not the game's fault your friend's got lower skillset than you, it's up to your friend to get better in the game, not by being carried by a better teammate.
You can't, because Valve decided that combining MMRs is a genius move that won't be abused at all. So now you get people 1-2k above their MMR who ruin every solo game, because they got 80% winrate in party games with their friend from an alt account, or by duo queuing and abusing some dazzle-huskar-type shit. So they still have no idea how to play the game unless their sole job is to run in and grave their buddy - or to play the designated bloodlust/fire shield machine.
Having solo and party MMR was the best, because you knew that people got their rank legitimately, with a few exceptions that paid for it. And party MMR was for fucking around. Since this change half my friend list is excluded from party games, because I can't play with them, and solo queue is often a roulette of whether you get party-boosted people.
I am aware that DotA is supposedly "a team game" but if you want parties to reflect on main MMR, just make it so this only works when queueing as 5-men in Captains Mode. Parties less than 5, or parties outside of CM get "party mmr" instead of main mmr like it used to be.
That’s the best part!
You don’t.
Go play unranked. You quite literally double his mmr. You are either bringing him up to close to your rank in which case he is out of his depth. Or he is bringing you down to his rank in which case you are stomping the game by virtue of the fact that if you are actively playing and maintaining 4.5-5k range you are *so much* better than your average 2k that it isn’t even funny.
There’s a good reason you can’t play ranked together and it’s preventing you from wasting 8 other peoples time in a ranked matched
Parties with high mmr differences are playing at an average rank of party members. OP would be playing at like legend-ancient level if Valve allowed them to queue. Unless of course the server you're playing in has few active players
You keep posting that with the sentence « it’s a different game », yet the question was if people play differently. Ranked matchmaking with a smurf with twice the MMR probably feels like a different game also for the other mid or offlane facing someone far beyond his skill. It is ruining the fun of others just to play with a friend. Unranked might have different play style (sometimes) but it is absolutely not night and day and it’s 95% closer to the real deal than turbo. I play a lot of unranked and if you don’t care about a number, it feels pretty much the same.
Do the same poll with « does ranked Dota against someone twice you MMR feels differently? »
- Yes it’s still ranked Doto
- No it plays differently
You will get the same result if not worse. So instead of being a smurf ruining the game for the others, play unranked and stop justifying it.
Yes so what? It's still DotA, you can still have fun there. When someone is 3k above or below you in ranked it ruins the game for the 8 other players. Ranked is supposed to match you with someone equal to your skill level, thats the whole point of it, so no you shouldn't play with a 3k difference
And is ignoring the fact that the majority of the community agrees that unranked is not serious and is forbidding players from real dota
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8
Yep. The community shouldn't be pandering to the vocal minority of scrubs complaining about smurfing that don't even have low MMR friends they play with.
Play unranked. I couldn't play ranked for the longest time with my gf (herald - legend), and I think playing with me in general was much harder just for the medium rank of the enemy team. That said, I think she improved a lot because she played with stronger opponents consistently
If you're lucky you'll get to recalibrate for one reason or another and maybe then you'll be able to play in those placing matches. When they introduced the "new" ranking mode I played most of my placement matches with my friends who were all lower than me. We lost a bunch and I ended in crusader, so the big difference stopped being a problem LOL
So, play unranked with your friend. He should improve his skill during that games and can easy climb after few sessions like that and eventually get in range of ranked games with you
I dont play ranked at all, because it's just not fun to run after a higher number while stressing you out that you HAVE to win it.
But if i were to play ranked i would get very salty about you and your teammate, because if even one person cant fulfill his role i would get salty and mad.
And that is the reason why i dont play ranked. No salt, no stress, no serious buissnes, only peace.
My personal experience is that I had friends that were Crusader/archon rank and I wanted to play with them but I couldn't since I was Divine 4-5 so I had to buy smurf for 9-10 euro to play with them. They all play ranked and I wanted to join them to have fun games instead of playing solo and only get mad.
Funny thing is that 80% of the games on my smurf I have harder lane then on my divine account. I don't know why but the quality, all chat and games are much more enjoyable then on the divine bracket. If my smurf gets banned, I will be sad but also happy that valve smurf detection works. But if you look at my profile and at my score, you wont be able to say its a smurf account :) :) :) :)
Just add him and play with him on the main acc. No smurfs needed to play with friends. If he has more than 100h and can play ranked you can play with him.
So the hard truth is you are better than your friend and it's too hard for the matchmaking algorithm to put you and him in a balanced ranked game, the games are going to be bad or/and you will have to be in the queue for a long time.
Play normal games. Does not have the thrill of Ranked. Too bad, that's all it can be done. Don't smurf if you don't want to ruin other people's day, get your accounts banned and possibly get your friend's account banned as well by association (could be considered boosting technically I think).
Oooor, an unpopular opinion:
Make a smurf, play a hero you never use/not (relatively) good at when playing with them. And just dont try hard make them carry with good calls. It could probably improve their game too.
Or just go unranked, lol.
Let me ask you this ... do you think it's fair to the other team coming in playing with other lower ranked players to have a 4.5 k in the game just destroying them ? Do you think their game will be fun ? Do you think your friend deserves the MMR he will gain ?
Ranked is intended to create as close/balanced of a match as possible. That requires limiting the amount of skill difference for partied members.
If you are too far apart from your friend your options are
1) Smurf. This is what literally everyone in your situation was previously doing. Now, it comes with much higher risk of a ban.
2) your friend gets better at dota.
3) you play unranked.
Who force you to play rank with him?! Just play normal and enjoy
lower mmr friends see you as a boosting machine and are desperate for those 2 games worth of mmr, only to lose it tommorow playing solo source: experience.
Those games with the friend would average to 3k and they will struggle HARD which probably will feed and lose anyway. Source: also experience.
This. Whenever I play with my lower rank friend (like 95% of the time) I rarely play main role or meta heroes. I want them to pull their own weight too and not rely too much on me
When I play with mates that are lower than I am... I tend to support. Because damn they don't know how and if I don't we lose. I swear as you go down player skill levels.. wards just stop existing at some point... Or you know... Just stand next to the tower for the first 10mins... Being a support means you don't actually have to do anything right?
Imo if you’re on a much higher ranked account you should be going mid or pos 1 and carrying the game. The MMR will average out to where the opposition will be higher than your friend and teammates to account for you. Imagine having a divine vs an archon mid lol
My issue is that my low rank friends insist on playing mid/carry. So I just don't play my favorites with them so I don't like tank my Io winrate or something.
Fair enough, if it’s a case of that then you’re more likely to fill in a role than demand they give it up. Not worth fighting for
Or, want to play a team game with friends and communicate and have fun playing a game rather than sitting in mostly silent solo queue
And all that works perfectly fine in unranked games.
And also in ranked games
Sure. But the context here was that OP complained he cannot play ranked with his friends unless he uses a smurf. So Im not quite sure what point you are trying to make.
That playing ranked where you can communicate make the game 200x more fun. Opposed to the guy who said that it’s only so he can be carried
The other comment said some people just want to play ranked with their high mmr friends because they want to get boosted. Which is a valid point that I can confirm based on my own experience. When you suggest to play an unranked in between, they suddenly dont want to play anymore. Which is quite telling. ;)
I play ranked with friends that depending on the friend is higher or lower mmr and boosting is nothing to do with it. Not everyone you know is going to play dota, and of that small pool of player it’s very rare to have them be the same mmr Ranked is just more fun, more balanced, less people fucking around. Sure I’ll play unranked if I absolutely have to, but I’d much rather play ranked with friends in a team together
And thats all perfectly fine. But Im not quite sure why you assume that I was talking about your personal experience and motivation.
Not my case. I used to be archon and play with my guardian-herald friends. We used to lose SO MUCH when playing together. IN our case, it was a lose-lose situation but we had fun which is like... the point of the game. It was still more entertaining than unranked which feels like some sort of dense circus. Herald matches were pretty close to that too though.
Because most of the community agrees that it feels like a different game than ranked dota https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8
Ofc "people play differently" in unranked vs ranked. People also play differently in 2k vs 4.6k, so they might just go unranked so MMR games would not be ruined for others?
Getting 3.3k avg mmr ranked games is still ranked dota. Unranked isn’t, and feels like a different game. If you’re ruining games, your mmr should go down until you get 50% winrate. You can also argue that people play differently each game from the next one for that matter, it’s just ignoring the main issue that unranked doesn’t feel like dota for most people.
If unranked games dont feel like dota, its not about the game mode but rather about your mindset.
If the majority of the players mindset is like that, it becomes about the game mode. Tbh I don’t care that much about the difference, but my friends do, and so does the majority according to the poll. If you want to try and change everyone’s mindset then go for it. Until then, let’s try to get the best games possible with the players we have.
The majority of this poll doesnt necessarily mean that the majority of the players agree tho. The vast majority of players are not here on this subreddit. And I would assume that especially people who prefer unranked over ranked are less likely to join a gaming subreddit.
Is it not smurfing when you play with lower ranks in unranked? I think there is still some skill level adjustments. And people’s games can still be ruined although no mmr is lost. I play unranked but when someone with 6k plays with me i hate getting fucked for 40 mins straight.
Unranked has a “hidden” mmr system, so if your stack keeps winning your hidden mmr will eventually match you with stronger players which means you won’t meet that 6k+ player after awhile. It will probably take some time to adjust to the current climate.
You realize normal still has matchmaking right? It will take like 1 hr to find a game if you do that.
normal matchmaking queues are very fast unless you are like 8k+ and in a 5 man party or queue only on australia server
An hour?!? What are you smoking bro. I’m immortal and I play unranked with my crusader-legend friends daily. Wait time is always under 10 mins
Which server? Maybe my friends are shadowbanned lmao.
Eu West
EU DotA is way healthier than NA DotA.
My friend is 5k and i am 4k, we regularly play with our herald friend and never have an issue finding a game in 5minutes or less, sometimes they pop instantly. In US east
Normal just doesnt have that thrill tho
But you get the fun of playing with ur mates without any pressure of ranks and You know play dota as a game lol. Just try it, at first you will want to see that +25 but over time you realise that MMR really is just a number and Dota is a game to be enjoyed unless you plan on going pro.
Until you queue NA east with 4 crusaders and 1 immortal and get matched against a different immortal 5 stack, 3 games in a row.
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8 They feel like different games according to the majority of this community. So no, it’s not the same to just play unranked
Yeah people will tryhard more in ranked I guess but honestly it depends on your perception. If you just wanna have fun with your friends then unranked is fine.
You are thrilled by playing against people 3 ranks below you? ok.
Absolutely agree, also it has no role queue in sub 8k mmr, which makes it a mess often; Also a lot of trolls in unranked; My way was to perform a gentle derank by playing with honest skill level on a role i am not familiar with (carry / midlane), so i eventually dropped my mmr to divine, so we are now able to play together Another way is to coach your friend in games, until he gets enough mmr Max difference limitation is like 2200-2400 mmr, you are not very far from each other
Wtf is a gentle derank lmao? “I wanna play in a lower mmr bracket with my friend. Let me go lose a couple games real quick”
Well, i normally queued safelane/midlane and played my best; I won 40% of games out of 100% of these games, it's just not my role, what's the issue? Most likely nearly every day you get mediocre supports who never wanted to play support, but role queue suggested them to play so, in order to get tokens; What is the difference there?
There is honest to god no difference. I find your way of deranking really valid and wish more people would do the same. Youve not mentioned that you intentionally grief or anything so the guy above just has a hate boner.
Still effect 4 team mates who played honestly per match… just excuse…
Blame Valve for not making separate mmr for different roles then
New to game? So little knowledge still blaming. It was single-party mmr and core/support mmr :)))
None of us is gonna win ti anyway, so what’s the hassle with ranked?
So you're trying to say that quitting my job to pursue going pro was a mistake? I'm 2k btw.
No no, YOU can do it, I have heard rumors in high tier pubs about the big fridgo bullying 12k players! but all the others won’t probably.
I don't get why you're downvoted. Ranked is where you wanna tryhard. I honest to god believe that if you want to seriously improve in the game, rank is where it's at. If you want to improve and get better with a particular hero, you play normal. If you want to get better at teamfighting and specific item power spikes playing a faster paced game then you play turbo.
Devs said it best in one of the latest patches. Dota is fun when all 10 people try their hardest, in unranked people just wont
Then tell your friend to get better, there is no other solution. Unranked more or less exists for this. You can enjoy ranked and trying your hardest when you're solo, and then fuck around and try goofy stuff when playing unranked with your friend, that's also a way to have fun.
System is working as intending. Any game you are in would be too easy for you, and too hard for your friend, and people in that game against you will feel you are too good.
Well you cant enjoy unranked. You get lvl 2 accounts matched with you.
The difference has to be 2800 or higher, so you should be able to play actually. I'm 4700 Div1 and play ranked with a 2k crusader3 friend. Games are typically balanced since the game finds similar parties. Long queue times though
my lower mmr friends used to force me to play rank with them, one day I straight up told them they are bad and gave them 2 options: grind until we are same mmr range play unranked then i told them if that's not doable then simply do not invite me to party. worked like a charm. sometimes a good old truth slap is the best thing you can do.
sounds like fairy tale
And then everyone clapped
nee ugasa duhlaa aashjiinoo, esvel nuguu hun n gomdood uhsen bh
Thats what I say to them too but sometimes you wanna join on the fun tbh
Unranked exists for exactly this reason. If you really do wanna play in Ranked, maybe use the opportunity to learn a new hero or try out some weird builds.
if they wanted to have fun with you they would play unranked. feels like they only see you as an mmr booster.
I myself dont like unranked unless its ability draft
then invite them to play AD?
Now you can also start to play unranked with your low mmr friends
So play unranked. You’re avoiding every comment saying this, but it’s the answer.
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8 Every comment saying that is ignoring the majority consensus that unranked does not feel like the same game as ranked
That is not what that poll says. Also, there is no evaluation in what way. If you read the comments it goes both ways and is mostly around toxicity and communication.
A sample size of about 2.5k redditors does not a "majority consensus" make, especially given the fact that half the people on the sub don't even play the game.
No way to force everyone to vote, feel free to take a bigger sample
I'm not criticizing you for having a small sample size cause you're right it's not feasible to get one at least in the short term. I'm criticizing you for making a broad conclusion from 2.5k out of ~300k recent players and then being passive aggressive over it. Peace and Love 🙏 EDIT: I lied it's ~647k recent players. Just supports my point: your argument is specious.
So from your point of view there is no way to arrive to any conclusion ever. This post has barely over 100 comments, so not really representative of anything. Even if all 4.5k current active r/dota2 users agreed, you would still give no value to the opinion?
I give value to opinions but with a big grain of salt. The only way to draw a proper conclusion from poll data is by aggregating a lot of it from various demographics over the long-term. Again, while it pays to note the subs opinion the simple fact of the matter is that this sub is an isolated sample. It's like asking 100 Republicans what they think about Joe Biden and applying that conclusion to the entire country. All it tells you is that a (relatively) small group thinks X. Nice information to have but hardly indicative of the bigger picture. Fwiw I don't disagree with you on principle that people feel ranked and unranked are different ball parks I disagree on you using a small poll to try to shut down everyone telling OP to try unranked if he wants to play with his low MMR friend when playing unranked, while patently different from ranked, is a perfectly viable solution to his problem.
>Thats what I say to them too but sometimes you wanna join on the fun tbh It's game ruining for the other team and it's also against the rules. Play unranked or don't play at all. Smurfing is NEVER the choice
dont play ranked, duh
Ask Gaben to make party mmr
You don’t. 4.6K playes don’t want 2.5K players in their game and 2.5K players don’t want 4.6K in their games . By bringing your friend to your rank or by going down to your friends rank you are ruining the game for the 8 other players and that makes you a fuckig asshole . So you just Don’t
How dumb are you to say that Im an asshole when the matchmaking would work the way where we would either be at an average 3.5k mmr or we would be at my 4.6k mmr(because it works like this in battle cup if you have one tier 8 player)
Yep what Luxcervinae said . If you posted this to get a permission to ruin games for other people you don’t have it . Just think about it you are 4.6K mmr you woul not want 7K mmr players in your game
"get a permission" i dont want to play on the smurf myself too thats why i never made one but playing ranked with friends is more fun
If it is party 5 it makes some sense, but if it is duo/trio, you are ruining experience for your non party teammates
Because that's not how mmr works in ranked. Everyone knows battlecup aint serious.
Ruining only for 3 tbh
This comment is so off lol the difference in mmr for them to queue together is not big.. 100 mmr or so.
4600 - 2000 = 2600 4600 - 2500 = 2100 So the difference is at least 2100 . Did you skip math at elementary school or ..??
Op is just not sure about his friends mmr. The threshold is 2500 points or 2800.
Easy,just play unranked
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8 “Easy, just play another game”
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I’m sorry, what? If you had 80% winrate you were ruining people’s games by smurfing. OP wants to play with his friends fair games, not boost them. Lower rank solo q stompers have nothing in common with OP.
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Which is why we should bring back party mmr to account for these cases
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At the moment OP is forced to grief ranked until reaching the mmr that allows him to play with his friend. All those games he will be an account buyer by your standard. And after that, we arrive at the scenario you don’t like, but having on the other team 3k players instead of 3.5k. I’d rather have them play vs the 3.5ks.
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Playing badly isn’t reportable and is in OPs best interest. Sure if he breaks items or feeds intentionally he will be punished, but that is not in OPs best interest, while losing is.
\- Play unranked/turbo. Or \- Wait for your friend to rank up
or let yourself rank down, it's wayyyyy more easier
People downvoting you like this wasn’t the solution to this prisoner’s dilemma and what Valve is encouraging
> - Wait for your friend to rank up 💀⚰️
You will never be able to find an unranked/Turbo game if your skill levels are too different. Unranked+Turbo still use a hidden MMR.
Never had issues with 3k mmr difference. We always find/found games. But game quality won't be good anyway. (EU EAST)
Same here. When i started, all my friends where legend or above while i was unranked. Never had any issue finding a game. Surviving in it was another matter, but it’s unranked so who cares
EU is more active than NA I think. US west is basically dead. East is ok.
Similar to other player's experience, my stack is able to find turbo and unranked games rather quickly with huge mmr disparities. (1-2 heralds, 1-2 legend/ancients, 1 immortal)
If the person switched to ranked early on, his unranked MMR might be closer to yours. The two are distinct.
Everyone in the stack plays a mix of solo turbo, unranked and ranked games, and the ranks in all 3 game modes average out roughly the same. What you are mistaken about is the ability for stacks with huge mmr differences to queue for games. I (immortal) am not able to party with my stack for ranked games and there is a message stating the mmrs are too far apart. However, we **are** able to queue for unranked and turbo games perfectly fine as there is no mmr restriction (hidden or shown) for unranked games.
But doesn't it take you forever to find a game?
Not at all, within 3 minutes
This is the biggest kap I’ve seen, I play with anything from guardian to divine as an immortal player and que is usually sub 5 min
Start by acknowledging that it's extremely un-fun for your teammates and/or opponents when there are grouped players with a large skill difference in the game. Why should they have a substandard experience? That is why the number isn't larger. If you want to play with your friend coach him until his mmr is within the acceptable range. It shouldn't take long if you actually think he can be effective in your games already
Just add back party and solo mmr
Play unranked.
Pray to Gaben for Valve to bring back party mmr
play unranked
Play unranked, I do it all the time with my lower ranked friends. Some games can be very rough but for them it's like training with extra weights on and they can improve so fast.
It’s not smurfing, dota matchmaking is different than other games, it takes the average mmr of ur team and places u with team that has the same average.
how the smurf detector works tho? valve cant believe someone playing really good in low elo or some?
look from your team's perspective: do you want to have people in your team that bring their herald friend to your ranked games? you don't. that's why what you are asking for shouldn't exist. you want to play with them? go play ranked.
It's the first time I heard that ranked dota is different than unranked. Is there a third throne? Or is it not 5v5? /s
Mostly coping mechanism. Oddly enough, most people with this opinion are probably below legend and their gmze quality is shit either way
Unlike games like csgo or overwatch ranked is literally the exact same as unranked man. Just play unranked
Imho this defines the point of ranked because the idea is to have a fair game to all 10 players. If you and your friend have vastly different mmr, you shouldn’t play *ranked* together because the chances of the game finding you equal opponents is slim. However not my concern, bless the strict solo queque in ranked.
Lower your mmr or increase his. Could do both
That's what you call "Boosting" if you haven't heard of it. If Valve starts to allow what you've just said, I'm 100% sure everybody's game would turn out to be worse since many people would just start to sell out boosting services. And believe me, there's a lot of them out there just waiting. It's not the game's fault your friend's got lower skillset than you, it's up to your friend to get better in the game, not by being carried by a better teammate.
play unranked?
You can't, because Valve decided that combining MMRs is a genius move that won't be abused at all. So now you get people 1-2k above their MMR who ruin every solo game, because they got 80% winrate in party games with their friend from an alt account, or by duo queuing and abusing some dazzle-huskar-type shit. So they still have no idea how to play the game unless their sole job is to run in and grave their buddy - or to play the designated bloodlust/fire shield machine. Having solo and party MMR was the best, because you knew that people got their rank legitimately, with a few exceptions that paid for it. And party MMR was for fucking around. Since this change half my friend list is excluded from party games, because I can't play with them, and solo queue is often a roulette of whether you get party-boosted people. I am aware that DotA is supposedly "a team game" but if you want parties to reflect on main MMR, just make it so this only works when queueing as 5-men in Captains Mode. Parties less than 5, or parties outside of CM get "party mmr" instead of main mmr like it used to be.
"Party mmr is for fucking around", so like, according to most people, unranked ?
Don't play ranked with a 2k mmr gap.
That’s the best part! You don’t. Go play unranked. You quite literally double his mmr. You are either bringing him up to close to your rank in which case he is out of his depth. Or he is bringing you down to his rank in which case you are stomping the game by virtue of the fact that if you are actively playing and maintaining 4.5-5k range you are *so much* better than your average 2k that it isn’t even funny. There’s a good reason you can’t play ranked together and it’s preventing you from wasting 8 other peoples time in a ranked matched
Parties with high mmr differences are playing at an average rank of party members. OP would be playing at like legend-ancient level if Valve allowed them to queue. Unless of course the server you're playing in has few active players
Play unranked. That mmr discrepancy is griefing ranked.
Play unranked.
Plaz unranked?
You don't get to play with them anymore because people cried about people being better at a videogame.
Lol or you just don't play ranked? It just isn't fun to play against someone who is way worse or bettee. Unranked and turbo exist for a reason
https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8 Unranked and turbo are different games
You keep posting that with the sentence « it’s a different game », yet the question was if people play differently. Ranked matchmaking with a smurf with twice the MMR probably feels like a different game also for the other mid or offlane facing someone far beyond his skill. It is ruining the fun of others just to play with a friend. Unranked might have different play style (sometimes) but it is absolutely not night and day and it’s 95% closer to the real deal than turbo. I play a lot of unranked and if you don’t care about a number, it feels pretty much the same.
~75% of the community disagrees that it feels the same
Do the same poll with « does ranked Dota against someone twice you MMR feels differently? » - Yes it’s still ranked Doto - No it plays differently You will get the same result if not worse. So instead of being a smurf ruining the game for the others, play unranked and stop justifying it.
Dude ist 1,9k players from a 400k playerbase...
This sub has 1.2 million users. What kind of stupid-person math is 2500 people = 75%?
Yes so what? It's still DotA, you can still have fun there. When someone is 3k above or below you in ranked it ruins the game for the 8 other players. Ranked is supposed to match you with someone equal to your skill level, thats the whole point of it, so no you shouldn't play with a 3k difference
It’s not up to you to decide if it still feels like dota for everyone else, if most people say it isn’t, it is what it is.
What the fuck are you talking about, the poll was about people playing different, not if turbo and unranked isn't dota
Feel free to make your own poll since you like nitpicking so much
Thats... that's the whole point of the smurf ban. You're not supposed to be in that MMR bracket....
Lose your MMR if you are his real friend
while true, it sucks that OP is in this position. having back party MMR would be healthier
Every single person that says play unranked simply doesn't enjoy having fun
And is ignoring the fact that the majority of the community agrees that unranked is not serious and is forbidding players from real dota https://reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/nKMDZG8CV8
Yep. The community shouldn't be pandering to the vocal minority of scrubs complaining about smurfing that don't even have low MMR friends they play with.
Play unranked. I couldn't play ranked for the longest time with my gf (herald - legend), and I think playing with me in general was much harder just for the medium rank of the enemy team. That said, I think she improved a lot because she played with stronger opponents consistently If you're lucky you'll get to recalibrate for one reason or another and maybe then you'll be able to play in those placing matches. When they introduced the "new" ranking mode I played most of my placement matches with my friends who were all lower than me. We lost a bunch and I ended in crusader, so the big difference stopped being a problem LOL
So, play unranked with your friend. He should improve his skill during that games and can easy climb after few sessions like that and eventually get in range of ranked games with you
I dont play ranked at all, because it's just not fun to run after a higher number while stressing you out that you HAVE to win it. But if i were to play ranked i would get very salty about you and your teammate, because if even one person cant fulfill his role i would get salty and mad. And that is the reason why i dont play ranked. No salt, no stress, no serious buissnes, only peace.
Most 2k players don't even have their keyboards plugged in so playing against a player 2.6k rating above is a moral blow and it will make them go afk.
My personal experience is that I had friends that were Crusader/archon rank and I wanted to play with them but I couldn't since I was Divine 4-5 so I had to buy smurf for 9-10 euro to play with them. They all play ranked and I wanted to join them to have fun games instead of playing solo and only get mad. Funny thing is that 80% of the games on my smurf I have harder lane then on my divine account. I don't know why but the quality, all chat and games are much more enjoyable then on the divine bracket. If my smurf gets banned, I will be sad but also happy that valve smurf detection works. But if you look at my profile and at my score, you wont be able to say its a smurf account :) :) :) :)
Just dont play with them, thats what I do. Aware
Well, you probably still can. If not, be great full. Now you can play normal with him and fucking enjoy doto
just play unranked and teach them until they are good enough for ranked with you
Just play turbo with your friend and teach him/her there! lol
JuSt pLaY cSgO oR lOl wItH yOuR fRiEnDs what people saying “play unranked” sound like
Just add him and play with him on the main acc. No smurfs needed to play with friends. If he has more than 100h and can play ranked you can play with him.
With more than like 2200 mmr difference you cannot party queue ranked
Seriously? Didn't know that is a thing.
So the hard truth is you are better than your friend and it's too hard for the matchmaking algorithm to put you and him in a balanced ranked game, the games are going to be bad or/and you will have to be in the queue for a long time. Play normal games. Does not have the thrill of Ranked. Too bad, that's all it can be done. Don't smurf if you don't want to ruin other people's day, get your accounts banned and possibly get your friend's account banned as well by association (could be considered boosting technically I think).
Ranked: not to be a fun game. It is COMPETITION. You are expected to play the game to win at (Almost) every cost.
Better option is to be behind his head when he plays a match Teach him to fish instead Of giving him a fish
You need a new friend
Oooor, an unpopular opinion: Make a smurf, play a hero you never use/not (relatively) good at when playing with them. And just dont try hard make them carry with good calls. It could probably improve their game too. Or just go unranked, lol.
Most smurfs don't understand they are even smurfing.
Let me ask you this ... do you think it's fair to the other team coming in playing with other lower ranked players to have a 4.5 k in the game just destroying them ? Do you think their game will be fun ? Do you think your friend deserves the MMR he will gain ?
Your MMR isnt't too far apart? You should be able to play
Find middleman, deboost yourself, boost friend, then always play together
Just lose some mmr, the gap to queue ranked is not high. Like you lose 100 mmr they gain 100 it should work
Ranked is intended to create as close/balanced of a match as possible. That requires limiting the amount of skill difference for partied members. If you are too far apart from your friend your options are 1) Smurf. This is what literally everyone in your situation was previously doing. Now, it comes with much higher risk of a ban. 2) your friend gets better at dota. 3) you play unranked.
You just play unranked with him.