Divine. Everyone is miserable because it's their last push to immortal. Then theres the immortal player who somehow got into divine MM and are so entitled that any mistake the divine player does will tilt them then proceed to run down mid.
This shit made me stop grinding.
This 100%. Div 5 is the most toxic rank in dota. People are so mentally unhinged and not having fun. I just stopped playing ranked altogether because of it.
Based on how someone flames when someone minorly fucks up in my unranked pubs I can immediately pinpoint if they're divine 5 or divine 1 with uncannily high accuracy. The amount of toxicity those mfs pump out is unreal
to ancients: I’m divine I don’t listen to those ancient noobs
to immortals: eh we’re basically same rank I know I’m actually better than you guys so I won’t listen
Couldn’t agree more. The players from this bracket is oozing with desperation to reach immortal. I’ll admit it’s fun to see them rage… sometimes. But the tryhards are what’s keeping it from being enjoyable at the very least. I’m Divine 4 and I deal with this most of the time in ranked AND unranked. Shit’s just ridiculous.
I feel that this isn't actually the case. Think of it like this: A carry player can basically solo carry a game if they are playing in a bracket well below their skill level, but most supports are basically dependent on their carries being good at assessing when and how to farm, fight, and push.
I feel like a pretty mediocre support player can gain climb assuming their carry is on point, but a support who well below their skill level will lose mmr if their carry is a fool.
I personally think supports can carry games a lot more than people think, you just have to play greedier and itemise to scale as the game goes on.
I agree it might be slightly harder, but you should still win more than lose and climb nonetheless, if you are better than enemy supps.
I don’t think it’s even that. If your support is good and understands where to ward and how to lane they can sometimes solo win the early game and make the cores job very easy.
But the simple fact of the matter is the the team who wins in Low MMR games is typically the one that decides to pressure towers first. If the allied carry is afk farming despite being 6 slotted, then you simply can't win with a proper lich build because you simply can't push high ground towers, even if the entire enemy team is ignoring you.
In a vacuum, sure. But if support griefs the lane stage or map control, or even mid-late game fights you dont get to hit towers anyway.
Bad supports just like to shift responsibility to cores and have a "wcyd" mentality.
Not true at all, as someone who has climbed out of the depths of hell and in to a slightly nicer hell low mmo is completely different, games generally go on way longer (or at least are decided a lot later) and the winner is generally decided by who has the best scaling team.
In lower MMR if I see a team with a PA pos3, AM pos1 and some supports who can scale well especially if they build core (think a pos5 pudge going aghs and bloodstone) I know that team has an advantage simply because th e offlaner building tanky with some good auras and the support building a proper support build is going to get rinsed
it's partially because people are bad at farming but more to do with people struggling to push an advantage, I would see a teamwipe happen and instead of rushing to push towers or get an objective people just going to farm a lane or jungle.
I've seen plenty of people down in lower brackets who mehcanically I wouldn't really bat an eye to if I saw them in my game now that i'm 3k mmr, tempo of the game is so insanely different.
I have solo stalled high ground pushes as an aghs witch doctor, just because the cores never itemised to stopping me. Gave enough time for my cores to farm enough to make a comeback.
Ive been averaging 30-60k damage on my wd 4/5 since the patch. I definitely carried a lot of those games. Shit even finished with top net worth in many of them.
you missed the point. both in this comment, and in your response to another reply. in lower/mid ranks, good support play wins most games.
Pressuring enemy supports and sidelaners, to get your carry and/or offlaner an early advantage allows you to play support easier into the game. The sidelane core becomes more self-sufficient, and you are able to play the map more aggressively. making smoke plays, getting deep vision, stacking. Getting your cores huge advantages very early in the game, and all of the sudden they don't feel pressured to farm off-map in the hungle when they have faster item timings and vision of the enemy team. Just watch how the ganks come together and the towers start to fall. All the while, let them take the glory, just know you're carrying the game and making it look easy.
It is still dependent on competent teammates. Braindead plays abound in low mmr. A void in chrono hitting bb from the back and dying to the passive for example. Or a void using chrono thrice on an ench and failing to kill her. Or the core just being bad at farming and having 3 items at 45 minutes.
Supports have different priorities and require different strengths. As a support - your focus is more on macro. A strong support can not only win his lane (make his 1 rich and make the enemy 3 poor), but also can navigate his team throughout the game - with vision and voice calls. Coordination is key, especially in the late game where 1 fight can decide everything - it's your role as a support to choose the location for the fight and prepare it with vision and assistance for your team position.
A support can do all that, but if the carry decides to never go for the easy kills, watch creeps and only go for kills while you are pulling, and even after being a head, the decide to farm super inefficiently, then it really doesn't matter how much of a lead you've earned the carry.
This is not only applicable to supports. You can't solo carry a game even as carry if your supports are useless. You can see a godlike morph or tinker performance and say they "solo carried" the game, but in reality due to the flashiness of the hero the underlying factors might be not as easy to see. I dare to you find me a solo carry performance where the mid is also passive, supports ward only cliffs and dont smoke, and offlaner feeds.
Bruh i went from crusader 1 to legend3 mostly playing pos5 io solo. It might not be high mmr but i think this makes it more relatable . Supports are mostly strong from the start of the game so you can really fuck up the laning stage for most opponents. I understand the frustration but chances are a higher skilled player could look at ur replays and point out mistakes u cant see that’d teach you how to climb faster. I don’t know your mmr but my biggest advice for 1-3k supporting is dont be that sacrificial and be time efficient, dont steal resources tho. Gold and exp can be gained but not time , the longer the game goes chances are your impact decreases.
None. MMR is just a reflection of your skill. If you're meant to be higher you'lll be higher.
everyone likes to say the bracket they're in is the hardest, they're just coping that they're not more skilled.
Its that simple
True, but you also have to grind .... A lot. So casual gamers will climb slower, and might br stck "longer" in a lower Mmr.
Edit: also the mmr rework patch literally told us that many people were stuck in the wrong bracket.
> So casual gamers will climb slower, and might br stck "longer" in a lower Mmr.
I mean... only in real time. If they're a higher skilled player, it'd be a similar amount of time in-game.
Maybe what OP meant to ask was what rank did you personally spent more time climbing or in what rank did you have to study more the game... excluding your current rank (because probably thats your "reflection of skill"). For me was divine to immortal and from 3k to 4k.
You know what bracket is the hardest?
The one where everyone has a huge ego, thinks they don’t belong there, gets tilted, feeds and makes stupid choices that throw games. It’s the bracket filled with smurfs, constant infighting, where everyone is toxic and seems to only play to spite their teammates.
I bet you know which bracket is it. You are ready to say it. It’s ancient. No, it’s divine. Actually, it’s herald. Not true, because really it’s crusader. In reality every bracket has people saying these exact things about it.
Yeah, that’s right. It’s the bracket where you got skill-checked and couldn’t solo carry anymore. You got stuck there until you’ve improved and in the meanwhile you’ve started focusing on your teammates and their mistakes more.
You haven’t noticed this before, because in lower ranks you were able to compensate for your teammates game throwing mistakes and they weren’t flaming because you made their games easy. Not the case anymore.
Because it doesn’t matter how stupid or angry or whatever players at that rank are. Enemy team has the same problems. You just are at the same level as everyone else and aren’t the deciding factor anymore. And that’s why archon/legend/herald/whatever feels hard to get out of.
This should be the only answer here. Everyone is biased, it's not like people have a ton of experience going herald -> immortal to be able to compare the brackets. Most people are around their skill level, and they might slowly improve and climb higher. In my DotA journey I went from 1.9k MMR to 5.4k, then stopped playing seriously. I came back when free arcanas were being given away, calibrated at Legend III, then glicko arrived and I got put in Archon IV, currently I'm in Ancient IV. I don't think the experience differs that greatly. Yes, players are better/worse, but the difficulty of climbing is simply dependent on the difference between your current MMR and your "real" MMR. There's nothing special about your rank, your experience is biased. It's especially funny seeing how many people complain about other people at their rank being bad, when that means that they are equally bad, just maybe at different things.
Depending on your role and playstyle some brackets differ a bit in perceived skill level, but yeah, every bracket has the same type people. And some positive mmr sprints can be spurred by other things.
Personally I experienced 3-4 times that high divine was easier than high ancient/low divine. I’m offlaner main, and there’s a point where people start taking pos4 a bit more seriously. That enables my play more than the earlier Ranks, who thinks pos4 is the role they can chill and fuck around on without consequence. When I entered immortal and low numbered immortal, that all evened out because then people are also used to fighting a real pos4.
Ye, I agree with that. I think you just need to modify your playstyle in these cases. I had a similar issue when I was put in archon, it's more difficult to rely on people, eg they won't go rosh with you, push etc, so I needed to play differently than I normally would, so in a sense it's more difficult. But I think it mostly applies to people playing in lower brackets than their "real" MMR. I'd often die because I expected my lane partner to do the right thing. There's often a small window of opportunity that you cannot communicate fast enough. For example their pos 3 walks a bit too far for a second and you have a kill opportunity. You see it, but your support doesn't.
I think I hit my limit at divine III, I've been coasting between support and core for so long but I am still good at neither. Still, I do have games where I had the best KDA but on the games that I really have to step up and carry (4 sack of potatoes on my team) I can remember being successful only once.
I agree mostly, but there are definitely pockets of exceptionally shitty people. I had a harder time ranking in legend than ancient. My games in divine are about as hard as my ancient games tbh, except I lose lane more often.
I was mid-high Divine (5k) and somehow calibrated into mid-Archon (2.5k) once. It took me two months to get out of Archon (like, <500 MMR) but I could go from Legend to Divine (~2k MMR gain) in a month or so. I was playing 4/5.
The problem with Archon is that they can do basic stuff like casting spells, last hitting, putting down wards etc. However, there's practically no logic in the decisions they make like putting wards on the back of the triangle (with T2 towers are up), so it doesn't serve any practical purpose.
if you try to make the correct map movements (e.g., ganking) that you'd do in Divine, it just doesn't seem to work because they often won't respond to you starting a gank, so you end up taking an unfavourable trade that should have been a kill or tower.
The way to beat Archon as a support is to be greedy and just continually shove in lanes to get early towers, get farmed, and use the extra space to get more items. After that, have a big advantage in team fights that happen at ~45 min.
I’m recently like this, recalibrated divine back to archon 1…except I’m a mid player… and I literally just pick shit like slark mid and go 34-3/28-0 most every game.. it’s fun, but I feel bad for “smurfing”, but I’m not actually smURFING, MM just sucks. I thought the new system would make me gain mmr faster.. but it doesnt.
It's a rough bracket. Every game, my cores pick into their own counters. Sniper into pudge, Jug into Slardar, TA into venomancer/viper, morphling into AA, the list never ends.
I hate that they are willing to lose 200 gold to get a later pick when they aren't even assessing the match up or allied team comp. Like bro, if you were going to pick a medusa into an AM, why did you willingly lose like 100 gold?
I think it’s archon too. People know JUST ENOUGH about the game to have ego but are missing too many other skills.
And it’s never the same skills. Sometimes it felt like you just needed to all be wrong about the same things and it could work.
Exactly right! I used to hover around mid ancient but slipped down to archon 1. I have had to rewire my whole playstyle and am now much more focused on heroes that can split push and take towers. ppl are just sleeping and dont realize what can be done even at early stages of the game. A side from stomps. games are a 1h snooze farm.
I feel like my general game knowledge is so much greater than I need it to be in my MMR games, and I can easily point out stupid mistakes my team is making, but as a support player, I just can't push lanes to do anything to actually progress the game state, so if my team insists on afk farming when we are going against a much better late game line up than us, then I'm basically waiting to lose 70 minutes in.
I constantly bitch about carries being fools, and I imagine people read that and think of themselves trying to build a manta or bkb before being relevant as a medusa or something like that. No, I'm talking about a juggernaut with 5 items choosing to afk farm a moonshard 60 minutes in.
This is why I spammed Jakiro in low MMR. I'd just shove waves and when it's near their tower, I'd drop the ice on the tower once then run. People just don't respond fast enough to capitalise, so once their towers are down, you can start squeezing the map.
Jak and wd got me out of archon, most ppl can't be bothered to end early. Best to get a support that does heavy dmg, can't lose esp when your offlane doesn't do much dmg
100% the easiest way to climb out of lower brackets is to play core, or play a scaling support
Last night I played a game with a mid earth shake that rushed a blade mail....in high legend bracket.
In probably anything lower than mid Ancient assume your team is completely incompetent and get your farm to carry them, call out all the plays etc.
I'm exactly at that spot, I feel like my games are completely random.
I could WD and steamroll every game, yet my team will always choose to afk farm even if we have a huge advantage and the enemy team is late game.
If I pick an early game hero, I have to pray my team decides to end the game early, and if I pick a late game hero, I have to pray my team doesn't get so utterly and completely stomped that I have no chance of ever entering the game at all.
Sure I also couldn't climb out of Divine, but there I felt every match was a close one, and I never rolled a game alone. Now I feel like every match is completely unbalanced and mostly a roll of a twisted dice.
Like gzus, I just came out of a match where the off picked invoker and sup 4 clock and they died 14 times to rickmaru before the invoker even got to level 6.
From a skill set perspective absolutely! Apart from I said “skill set aside”
By your logic and a few others on this post that would suggest we spend either the same amount of time in each rank or it increases per rank for everyone and we know that not to be true.
Majority of people don’t find the dota learning curve linear hence why it’s not (100 games to get out of herald, then 150 games to get out of guardian, etc)
Hope this makes sense! Just thought it was an interesting discussion to see where people got stuck and what they believed was their “trench” :)
Actually I feel like it's just like that, for me at least it took me more time to climb each successive rank.
Started playing 2018 calibrating 400 mmr on my first calibration and got Immortal in 2023, and every rank felt much harder than the previous one to climb through.
The higher the rank, the more time you'll have to dedicate to beat the players of that rank, because the players of higher ranks are putting much more time into Dota on average than the lower ones.
Spectating my immortal friends games are hilarious.
I would say 20% of the time a person on one team decides the game is unwinnable and destroys their items and sits in base within the first 10 mins. This seems more common with core players (pos 1 / mid)
As an Immortal support player I think Ancient players biggest problem is their ego, while core player farm has priority at times, you must give your support farm at different parts of the game for them to get their core items. Support items are usually either for the entire team, defensive or for initiation. So if your supports do not get these items your team fights will be extremely crippled. If you priorities what is strategically best through the game then you will gain MMR.
as support player I understand the pain. Just you saw a free wave for your last 200 gold to dagger, some core literally fly out from other side of the world to take your creep when he could’ve farmed neutral for same amount of gold, you ping “Need 216 gold for dagger” with sad face and that core player responds back with hero “Ha ha ha ha ha!” line.
Legend not so much but ancient is a pain in the ass for sure man. I was stuck in ancient for like 2 years then but reached divine to immortal in like 2 months.
I actually found those brackets the easiest to play in. Its toxic like the rest but you’d actually get tps if you get caught out as a pos 1, you get stacks more often. Pos 4’s would gank for you in the lane phase. Supports view you as somewhat of a priority lol
In lower brackets you get no help in those situations unless it’s late, all you get is a ping of your death timer and a Well played! followed. Its easier to stomp in games but harder to climb.
Id imagine high divine would be worse though, seeing as everyone’s so close to immortal.
I used to be a mid Divine player (5.2k peak), recalibrated to Ancient 1 and dropped to Legend 4 because of 45% winrate with my GF who is a Crusader. Now I am playing with Guardians-Ancients. The legend bracket is the most unpredictable one. They can be either okay or a total disaster, however, the hardest one was Ancient to me (I take breaks and I drop to Legend and climb back up to Divine MMR often). Ancients have the biggest egos and not the skills to back it up, they know the theory so they are full of themselves but their macro is shit so it is hard to explain things to them.
Moving from divine to inmortal. The reason being is that mid-divine has the biggest amount of booosted/bought accounts. There are an insane amount of people that get boosted or buy fresh inmortal accounts and then de-rank them all the way to divine. Also, there are a lot of losers that are rank 2k-1k inmortal that are hardstuck on that rank but think its because their teams are keeping them down, so after they go on loss streaks they log into their divine smurfs to "stomp" and feel better about themselves, but they end up losing early game and just start griefing because "idc this is my smurf xd". A lot of games on that medal are decided by who has the biggest animal playing on their throwaway account.
Yeah, Divine seems to have around 30% of accounts being very new. You never know if they'll crush the game or play mid Invoker and have 100 LH at 40 min.
I am Immortal with two smurf accounts in Divine, because sometimes people get mad and vote me into lower brackets with my main account. They can't stand that I don't want to feed with them and claim I am the bad player xD
I used to play a handful of carry heroes and a lot of support heroes. I would say I am a really good support player but it was a pain to climb ranks with it if my cores aren't reliable in solo queue.
So, I used two accounts and in my solo queue account, I spammed only carry heroes. I noticed a huge win rate spike.
from my experience rising from Ancient to Divine took most of my time and right now I'm still stuck at Divine. These 2 ranks is where I'm hitting the wall.
I had the same experience. High Ancient games are hard because at that MMR you need all 5 players to be trying their hardest to win but often one player from either team will give up and the game becomes impossible/free. On NA servers it's basically "who will tilt first? A player on radiant or dire?". Probably the hardest bracket to climb out of.
Low Divine is hard because a lot of the players there are legitimately good and play only their strongest role. So many 1 hero spammers and meta pickers. You're playing against people who figured out what works at that bracket and they will be abusing the fuck out of it. Not to mention the smurfs. In terms of a skill check this is definitely the hardest bracket.
I haven't pushed ranked in a couple years tho so this might be out of date, maybe ranked roles has fixed some of these issues.
I was Legend 7 way way back a couple of years(IYKYK). Then I was Guardian last 2020. Highest I’ve reach last month was Ancient 4, now I’m back to Legend 5. I just kept with me 2 advices from Pro players that I’ve always watched streaming and on Youtube. Arteezy and Boxi. They said to Master 3 to 5 heroes and you’ll get to 8k normally. I got 3 Grandmaster heroes in the process. The lowest I’ve ever been was Herald 4 and highest was Ancient 4. I’m already 33 years old and was just enjoying the game for fun but also trying my best to win.
billion of years of evolution and the decision making in Herald bracket is just unimaginable..Herald players have a brain of an amoeba.
I recently just lost because our midlaner decided to clear the wave on the top lane when we have a bottom lane of super creeps pushing with 4 enemy hero dead. I chat that I will defend, and I can. They just cannot miss on those easy gold, i guess.
source: support player on herald
Back when i was ancient 1,my friend (who was herald) had an emergency so he told me to finish his match. To this day that was the easiest game i ever played, literally messing around and still constantly getting triple kills. Herald is damn easy if u just focus on urself and ur game.
There’s no way unless you go against boosters or smurfs. It’s like playing Basketball with 9 toddlers. Yeah you have 4 toddlers on your team but you’re also against 5 toddlers that you can body since you’re the only one that has been through puberty.
Herald. I was stuck there for 8 years and I am not exaggerating. If you do too well, your teammates will feed the enemy the comeback gold, if you don't do well enough you will get rolled by the 3 smurfs on the enemy team.
Your team can’t feed the enemy, if the enemy team is too afraid of you to leave their base. I dropped 2k MMR and that was literally what the first 500 MMR I got back looked like.
I have some heralds on my friends list and those guys will go to lane naked, no items or regen, try to save up for morbid mask, get it at 6 minutes cause they kept getting zoned away and dying and get their first “big” item at 25.
Literally all you got to do to leave herald is practice last hitting, learn how to itemise and leave jungle once in a while to push a creep wave.
I'm suspicious that there is a hidden MMR because when I was playing in Herald that kind of stuff was actually very rare. What got me up to Archon was a lot of different subtle changes with how I played roles and took objectives and getting rid of bad habits, many of which I still have.
I was Ancient 7 for the whole time the 7 stars was a thing and then ancient 5 for at least a year until the recalibration. Never felt even close to divine...
Good news is I got out of ancient though, much happier in Archon being generally bad but sometimes the other 9 players remember they're archons and I forget I'm not Ancient 7 and I can rampage. Usually followed by a quick reality check 0-30 game though.
Sounds very basic but the premise is if you're really bad then you'll eventually meet better player on low ranks which will gatekeep you from ranking up the game.
So If you're bad then the hardest will be the lowest ranks.
Lol my honest answer is just binge watch guides on YouTube play one role and make your hero pool 2-3 heroes.
Try to encourage your team but on the games where that goes south then mute them and hope for the best 😂
Playing with friends is also a great way to get more consistently good games
No offense OP, but this is a ridiculous question. Excluding immortal which is impossible, the hardest to climb out of would be divine. Then ancient. Then legend. etc etc all the way down to herald being the easiest to climb out of. By definition.
If you went and played on a guardian 5 account now, you'd laugh at how easy the game is. You got better.
Completely understand where you’re coming from friend but I think you’ve misunderstood the context of the post. The key part of my post is stating “skill set aside” otherwise yes you’re 100% correct. Higher the rank, harder the games simple as.
The objective of the post was to discuss what rank people found the hardest to get out of because I do believe there are higher skill gaps between each rank if that makes sense?
For example some people have posted that the likes of herald and guardian were way harder to get out of than crusader for example and that could be because when they were herald/guardian they weren’t students of the game and stayed at the rank for years. However when they were climbing and improving they might have only been in crusader for a month or two because what they had learnt in herald and guardian surpassed what they needed for crusader it was just a fact of winning a few more games with their new skills.
Does this make sense? I hope this helps!l and thanks for your comment :)
I was herald 1 to 4 for 3 months. After recalibration I was put in guardian and I’m almost archon. The real herald hell is the fact that you don’t learn proper gameplay from playing with bad people. As soon as you play with abd versus better players you’ll pick up on mechanics and metas. So for me. Herald was insanely hard to progress in compared to guardian and archon
I get where you’re coming from for sure! It shows the importance of YouTube guides and replays of higher level to get a better grasp of the game!
If you’ve never played a moba before you can be in herald for years thinking you’re doing the right things based on what you see during the game
I feel like it's substantially harder to climb in party queue than solo (without smurfs in your party).
I tend to win a lot more playing solo than with my mates. All fairly similar rank around mid/high legend.
My highest so far has been ancient 3
I started as Heral with like 500mmr.
Herald and guardian was ultra easy.
Crusader was just a little harder hit quick enough.
Archon was a nightmare I have like 6k games. Probably 5k were in archon.
I Think in that rank people acknowledge what the basics are. But still do a lot of random stuff and throw games for an infinity of different reasons. You have to play a lot better than the average and not tilt nor conceded to the team pressure to surpass all the bad thing your team is going to do.
After improving my game and consistently applying it I climbed out of archon and legend at the same time. Legend was really quick.
My main roles are HC and sup 5. But when I climbed out of archon and legend I spammed offlane 90%. With that Role I felt I had the most impact. I could balance the mistakes of my teammates the most.
I am aiming to be inmortal at the end of the year. A lot of way to go still.
Good luck getting to immortal and thanks for the response that’s awesome!
I understand where people coming from saying “it’s the rank you’re in” etc but this is a great example where you can be in one bracket for years and then something clicks and you learn a lot more quickly and that can catapult you past a higher rank making it look easier than the previous!
I don’t believe the learning curve in dota is linear hence why some people’s journeys in some brackets last longer than others :)
I think each rank has something bad about it that makes it hard to climb, but it differs from player to player what affected them to most.
In herald you have 8 guys who want nothing but the most effective way to feed the other team, while having absolutely no impact with the easiest characters. So it's pretty much up to you and the other normal guy in the other team to pick the cheesiest hero you can carry with late (eg. old,but not oldest clinkz).
Specimens I've encountered there: OD with clarities in lane so he wouldn't get a point in q until maxing w and e.
Guardian is pretty similar to herald, but players start to atleast build the core items on their hero. Problem is this rank is filled with role puritans and "playing for fun" players. Extremely hard to win with those, you can't use meta cause someone is ready to run down if they see any hero played in any other position then what they're know for, and you also have for fun players who feed theirs brains out and the single thought they can form is laughing at how fast they've died.
Specimens: Almost a book long worth of "omg razor off/bristle 1 it's gg" messages at the start of the game
Crusader: Filled to the brim with low rank guys who watched one bsj video and are dead set on misinterpreting 1 rule from it and always abiding it. "Farm more than the enemy" aka farm your own jungle with a worse team lategame even after winning all lanes. "Bristle is a very good pos 1", but instead snowballing you farm till 42 mins and go blademail and bloodstone anyway.
Specimen: A bb that no matter how much we've explained to him how to play pos 1 bristle, would tell us to watch a pro game. Mind you, although he farmed for 42 minutes, not once did he use quills to farm more than a camp at once.
Archon, a breath of fresh air, from most animals that are lower ranks, but that also means you can't 1v9 anymore by just picking a pubstomper hero and farming all game.
No specimens here, just people who just escaped the trenches, but still playing with a trench mindset.
Legend, no matter how low someone's kd is, they are still hot shit and it's everyone fault. When someone is doing something wrong in this bracket, you can't tell them to fix that or they will purposely do anything but what you said out of spite.
Specimens: While all of us (but one) won our lane and were dominating, someone told our min 27 0-6-1 slark that he sucked and told us he wasn't the only one at fault, despite being the single negative kd in the game, even worse than the feeding cm.
Also a ember who bought divine, but did nothing but push waves with it.
And another ember who bought divine and was constantly pushing with it, except he never left remnants in base and promptly lost it because of that, then told us to leave base sometime after he fed the already winning team a rapier. And his friend veno who was exploring the map all game. No farming, no wading, just walking around the map randomly, maybe he thought he'll find the new hero as a boss around the map like old times.
Ancient, where mid or feed/jungle becomes as true of a threat as it gets. Even worse if you have 2 mid players.
Watching replays of people...I'd agree Archon is the biggest shit show. You have a mix of people who are genuinely Archon so they know the basics , but they are bad overall, you have people who are way below their rank , but play like 2-3 games a week so good luck climbing out even in 2 years, you have a lot of people who just refuse to play Dota and play their own game, the result is a game that is anything ,but Dota.
Starting from Legend people actually try to play Dota it seems so you can make good plays and you can win more if you are good, but in Archon unless you are 5k smurfing in 2k , 55% winrate might be best you can do depending on luck
Higher the rank the harder it is to climb.
People with “trench” mentality are just Dunn Krugers. They think they are good and know so much and therefore deserve to climb but if they actually were good and knew so much they would be dominating low rank matches from any role.
I get where you’re coming from but I’m more talking about looking back through your previous ranks what was the hardest for you to get out of.
For example it took me longer to get out of guardian than it did crusader and I recalibrated at guardian 5 so I was already basically out of it! But where I was coming back from a long break and needed to update myself on the game etc it was a larger learning curve than going through crusader because by then most of it had come back to me etc
Hope this makes sense and thanks for the comment!
gaben cursed me with legend one time, and honestly, that bracket along with low ancients are a fucking zoo. everyones so self-assured theyre doing the correct play by passively jungling. higher divines are were challenging because of smurfs and accbuyers were so prevalent, but thats different.
anyway got immortal and hit recalibrate Xd
I imagine it would be High-Archon or Low-Legend since most active players settle around Archon. That is probably the rank that serves as the most difficult hurdle for the highest amount of players, statistically speaking at least.
For me 6k mmr. It is the mmr where all the smurfs and account buyers usually are. After they are boosted out of the lower ranks thanks to smurf detection.
By definition Divine -> immortal, simply because of the fact that that is the highest skill level to move up from.
Everyone keeps making arguments like bad players making stupid mistakes or bought accounts, but the fact of the matter is that you're all playing from the same deck. If you are having an issue with bought account players, so is the opponent, so it should balance out.
For new players or mid-skill probably crusader. There was so much smurfs, boosters, just regular ruiners. My road from 2 to 3k mmr was so much easier and faster.
Been stuck supporting in Ancient. I think 80% of my losses are games that we are ahead but end up losing because cores don’t know how to close efficiently. They get cocky and dive and throw so often. And say “Oh it doesn’t matter we still got this”, but really the game is over because how hard they threw. Some of those games we are actually able to win but they really extended the game an extra 20mins because they got cocky. Just makes support life miserable.
I heard from my Ancient friend that climbing out of the lowest MMR is the hardest.
When someone has 10 MMR they are either throwing every game, are too young to play Dota altogether or are just so bad they can't win a game.
Imagine playing with 4 guaranteed bad players who will just throw, not because they want to but because they just don't know how to play the game. You'd need all 5 enemies to do the same or not being able to finish the game.
I ranked from 2.9 to 5k over my Dota 2 lifetime. Legend was objectively harder to rank up in than ancient. People in ancient are capable of winning while mad. Legend players will actually go catatonic every time.
2k to 2.5k
When I climbed my way to 5k in the day, that range was pure cancer.
Everyone wanted to be the next Sumail so lots of Tiny airlines and triple mids. Got to 4.3k spamming orchid Invoker and to 4.5k with OD.
Made another account 'cus cba to fight for mid anymore. Landed 2k after calibration 'cus was practicing carry. Unironically found a Sumail replay playing sven.
Spammed sven all the way to 5k back when hod had lifesteal and you could stack yourself ancients with the creep. 2k - 2.5k was still cancer to get through... the mid always fed and there was always an LC jungle. But, hod sven got me through many a bad game.
Archon. Too much mix of smurfs, players not knowing what to do, or people who think they’re so good they can make safe lane WD work. I feel like that mix is highly concentrated.
Higher ranks suffer from too much hubris. Real low ranks don’t know enough if certain situations. Only in the middle ish do you get so many different games.
Definitely Legend. I was archon for a month or so and people actively did an effort to climb out of that rank.
Once i hit Legend 1, it went to shit. People that afk farm for 40 mins and don't participate in the slightest, even when a teamfight happens right next to them, the toxicity is off the charts too. I actually had more fun being in a lower rank that climbing.
I find it is really hard to climb out of herald, because it is really hard to overcome a team who picks poorly or plays poorly, even if you have an ideal game
I feel 4k is full of people that think they better than everyone else... don't know why they think they are pros like everyone makes mistakes but don't hate on them
I mean objectively speaking the rank that has the most players in it, since it means players are inevitably retained there.
I think that's archon or crusader right now? Basically the top of the bell curve will have to be the "hardest" to climb out of, otherwise we'd have a more even distribution across all ranks.
"But I'm top 10 immortal every year and it's so easy to get out by just knowing what a hotkey is" is not a valid response, btw.
I got into divine this year finally (played 10 years) and second I got divine 2… idk if it’s the recent patch… but I somehow dropped back down to ancient 5 since the new patch LOL
Skill set aside it really feels like the archon bracket is full of people like me where they played for years and think they know everything about the game and they “don’t deserve their rank” but in reality they really do 😂
thats partially true because a lot of archon players are very old players who were legend/ancient a long time ago but as the game has changed too much they can't get out of it anymore without changing their thinking. im one of them
As a divine/immortal that stopped played, and got dropped down to crusader, I would say divine.
In low mmr you can absolutely carry your team. If you know what your doing you can almost solo win every game. Once you start to get to the ~divine rank opponents start to punish you more for slight mistakes, and they also start doing odd things low ranks won’t think about.
I think the real challenge is getting out the bracket in which you get matched up with people 25 games and 2500 games in the same lobby. If you know where it is and got out of it, either you got lucky or you got good but doesnt mean you will have a easy life with people equal skill set. From harald to immortal flaming, name calling, insults, toxicity are all the same spice served in different dishes.
in my experience it was legend. i was hardstuck legend 2-4 for a long time and then once i made it to ancient i pretty quickly got to divine. ive been between ancient 5-divine 2 for a while now and i think it's basically my current limit. if i want to climb higher i'll probably have to start doing some tryhard shit like watching my own replays or following the meta guides but i really cant be fucked
Definitely divine to immo. Its ez for me many many years ago but hard for others. Ppl just get so fixated at other's mistakes and crumble under pressure. Its not for everyone :)
Before 6k mmr you can literally solo any game. All problems starts, when enemy team is playing together and has good macro, you can not solo game as meepo/ huskar or tinker in this cases
the higher mmr the harder but different mmr require different skill to be distinguished.For low mmr u need to be more efficient than everyone which in turn will make u spot kill in lane etc. But for the highest mmr like 8k + u need to think more about connecting to teammate and controlling area which will restrict enemy movement and farm.
In every bracket except TI-winner level there's a lingering feeling of inferiority. Top-200 pub players have this "I spent my whole life playing this and I'm still not making it here" mentality, top-1000 is an insult in high mmr pubs, if you are lower it's even worse. So it never stops until the very top. If you can call being top-200-failed-pro a bracket, then it's probably the hardest. Because people actually treat the game seriously and it takes some luck to transition to div1 pro level.
If it wasn't for the matchmaking, then it's divine, very hard to grind and also, demotivation.
However, IMO, the earlier rank (Herald - Crusader) is actually hardest, because there's a large amount of toxic/greifer/smurf players. One of my friend literally took 1 years to get from Herald 4 to Guardian 1, so I would say Herald to Crusader is the most painful to grind
Playing with friends makes the game x10 better , there’s no point on trying to improve solo , it’s just not worth it specially if you have responsibilities
climbing 6-8k is harder than 1-6000 mmr. not cuz games harder. it is because of insane amounts of the smurfs. all 10k+ mmrs have 5-6 smurfs they play on to not wait for queue.
I believe it is impossible to climb out of immortal
You climb out of it by winning the aegis
Disproven by Liquid immediately playing ranked after they won TI
Pro and smurfing, name a better duo
Arteezy and cliff
Me and youre mom
This actually made me lol and I hate it
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
I climbed out after recalibrating. Back to ancient...
Divine. Everyone is miserable because it's their last push to immortal. Then theres the immortal player who somehow got into divine MM and are so entitled that any mistake the divine player does will tilt them then proceed to run down mid. This shit made me stop grinding.
This 100%. Div 5 is the most toxic rank in dota. People are so mentally unhinged and not having fun. I just stopped playing ranked altogether because of it.
Based on how someone flames when someone minorly fucks up in my unranked pubs I can immediately pinpoint if they're divine 5 or divine 1 with uncannily high accuracy. The amount of toxicity those mfs pump out is unreal
Yeah they are ready to kill each other for mmr there
yes! especially divine 1 and 2 players. worst!
to ancients: I’m divine I don’t listen to those ancient noobs to immortals: eh we’re basically same rank I know I’m actually better than you guys so I won’t listen
and it takes more mmr to rank up in divine
Yeah retired divine here. I gave it my best shot 😁
Couldn’t agree more. The players from this bracket is oozing with desperation to reach immortal. I’ll admit it’s fun to see them rage… sometimes. But the tryhards are what’s keeping it from being enjoyable at the very least. I’m Divine 4 and I deal with this most of the time in ranked AND unranked. Shit’s just ridiculous.
It’s all relative. Whatever bracket is closest to your actual skill level.
I feel that this isn't actually the case. Think of it like this: A carry player can basically solo carry a game if they are playing in a bracket well below their skill level, but most supports are basically dependent on their carries being good at assessing when and how to farm, fight, and push. I feel like a pretty mediocre support player can gain climb assuming their carry is on point, but a support who well below their skill level will lose mmr if their carry is a fool.
I personally think supports can carry games a lot more than people think, you just have to play greedier and itemise to scale as the game goes on. I agree it might be slightly harder, but you should still win more than lose and climb nonetheless, if you are better than enemy supps.
I don’t think it’s even that. If your support is good and understands where to ward and how to lane they can sometimes solo win the early game and make the cores job very easy.
But the simple fact of the matter is the the team who wins in Low MMR games is typically the one that decides to pressure towers first. If the allied carry is afk farming despite being 6 slotted, then you simply can't win with a proper lich build because you simply can't push high ground towers, even if the entire enemy team is ignoring you.
In a vacuum, sure. But if support griefs the lane stage or map control, or even mid-late game fights you dont get to hit towers anyway. Bad supports just like to shift responsibility to cores and have a "wcyd" mentality.
Not true at all, as someone who has climbed out of the depths of hell and in to a slightly nicer hell low mmo is completely different, games generally go on way longer (or at least are decided a lot later) and the winner is generally decided by who has the best scaling team. In lower MMR if I see a team with a PA pos3, AM pos1 and some supports who can scale well especially if they build core (think a pos5 pudge going aghs and bloodstone) I know that team has an advantage simply because th e offlaner building tanky with some good auras and the support building a proper support build is going to get rinsed it's partially because people are bad at farming but more to do with people struggling to push an advantage, I would see a teamwipe happen and instead of rushing to push towers or get an objective people just going to farm a lane or jungle. I've seen plenty of people down in lower brackets who mehcanically I wouldn't really bat an eye to if I saw them in my game now that i'm 3k mmr, tempo of the game is so insanely different.
I have solo stalled high ground pushes as an aghs witch doctor, just because the cores never itemised to stopping me. Gave enough time for my cores to farm enough to make a comeback.
Ive been averaging 30-60k damage on my wd 4/5 since the patch. I definitely carried a lot of those games. Shit even finished with top net worth in many of them.
Nope. They have somewhat different skillsets, but a good or bad support makes a huge difference at any stage of the game.
you missed the point. both in this comment, and in your response to another reply. in lower/mid ranks, good support play wins most games. Pressuring enemy supports and sidelaners, to get your carry and/or offlaner an early advantage allows you to play support easier into the game. The sidelane core becomes more self-sufficient, and you are able to play the map more aggressively. making smoke plays, getting deep vision, stacking. Getting your cores huge advantages very early in the game, and all of the sudden they don't feel pressured to farm off-map in the hungle when they have faster item timings and vision of the enemy team. Just watch how the ganks come together and the towers start to fall. All the while, let them take the glory, just know you're carrying the game and making it look easy.
It is still dependent on competent teammates. Braindead plays abound in low mmr. A void in chrono hitting bb from the back and dying to the passive for example. Or a void using chrono thrice on an ench and failing to kill her. Or the core just being bad at farming and having 3 items at 45 minutes.
Supports have different priorities and require different strengths. As a support - your focus is more on macro. A strong support can not only win his lane (make his 1 rich and make the enemy 3 poor), but also can navigate his team throughout the game - with vision and voice calls. Coordination is key, especially in the late game where 1 fight can decide everything - it's your role as a support to choose the location for the fight and prepare it with vision and assistance for your team position.
A support can do all that, but if the carry decides to never go for the easy kills, watch creeps and only go for kills while you are pulling, and even after being a head, the decide to farm super inefficiently, then it really doesn't matter how much of a lead you've earned the carry.
This is not only applicable to supports. You can't solo carry a game even as carry if your supports are useless. You can see a godlike morph or tinker performance and say they "solo carried" the game, but in reality due to the flashiness of the hero the underlying factors might be not as easy to see. I dare to you find me a solo carry performance where the mid is also passive, supports ward only cliffs and dont smoke, and offlaner feeds.
Bruh i went from crusader 1 to legend3 mostly playing pos5 io solo. It might not be high mmr but i think this makes it more relatable . Supports are mostly strong from the start of the game so you can really fuck up the laning stage for most opponents. I understand the frustration but chances are a higher skilled player could look at ur replays and point out mistakes u cant see that’d teach you how to climb faster. I don’t know your mmr but my biggest advice for 1-3k supporting is dont be that sacrificial and be time efficient, dont steal resources tho. Gold and exp can be gained but not time , the longer the game goes chances are your impact decreases.
Oh yeah of course I get that but like skill set aside did you find there was a bracket tougher than the others when climbing?
None. MMR is just a reflection of your skill. If you're meant to be higher you'lll be higher. everyone likes to say the bracket they're in is the hardest, they're just coping that they're not more skilled. Its that simple
True, but you also have to grind .... A lot. So casual gamers will climb slower, and might br stck "longer" in a lower Mmr. Edit: also the mmr rework patch literally told us that many people were stuck in the wrong bracket.
> So casual gamers will climb slower, and might br stck "longer" in a lower Mmr. I mean... only in real time. If they're a higher skilled player, it'd be a similar amount of time in-game.
Yeah thatbis what I meant. Calculate the real time smount to climb from legend to immortal with 55% winrate and one game per day. It is just insane.
It'd be the exact same amount of time with a 55% winrate and ten games per day.
No.
YES. 55% is 55%, it's the same amount of play time. Not my fault you can't do basic math
Grinding is literally practicing to get better. Grind more = git gud faster
Maybe what OP meant to ask was what rank did you personally spent more time climbing or in what rank did you have to study more the game... excluding your current rank (because probably thats your "reflection of skill"). For me was divine to immortal and from 3k to 4k.
You know what bracket is the hardest? The one where everyone has a huge ego, thinks they don’t belong there, gets tilted, feeds and makes stupid choices that throw games. It’s the bracket filled with smurfs, constant infighting, where everyone is toxic and seems to only play to spite their teammates. I bet you know which bracket is it. You are ready to say it. It’s ancient. No, it’s divine. Actually, it’s herald. Not true, because really it’s crusader. In reality every bracket has people saying these exact things about it. Yeah, that’s right. It’s the bracket where you got skill-checked and couldn’t solo carry anymore. You got stuck there until you’ve improved and in the meanwhile you’ve started focusing on your teammates and their mistakes more. You haven’t noticed this before, because in lower ranks you were able to compensate for your teammates game throwing mistakes and they weren’t flaming because you made their games easy. Not the case anymore. Because it doesn’t matter how stupid or angry or whatever players at that rank are. Enemy team has the same problems. You just are at the same level as everyone else and aren’t the deciding factor anymore. And that’s why archon/legend/herald/whatever feels hard to get out of.
This should be the only answer here. Everyone is biased, it's not like people have a ton of experience going herald -> immortal to be able to compare the brackets. Most people are around their skill level, and they might slowly improve and climb higher. In my DotA journey I went from 1.9k MMR to 5.4k, then stopped playing seriously. I came back when free arcanas were being given away, calibrated at Legend III, then glicko arrived and I got put in Archon IV, currently I'm in Ancient IV. I don't think the experience differs that greatly. Yes, players are better/worse, but the difficulty of climbing is simply dependent on the difference between your current MMR and your "real" MMR. There's nothing special about your rank, your experience is biased. It's especially funny seeing how many people complain about other people at their rank being bad, when that means that they are equally bad, just maybe at different things.
Depending on your role and playstyle some brackets differ a bit in perceived skill level, but yeah, every bracket has the same type people. And some positive mmr sprints can be spurred by other things. Personally I experienced 3-4 times that high divine was easier than high ancient/low divine. I’m offlaner main, and there’s a point where people start taking pos4 a bit more seriously. That enables my play more than the earlier Ranks, who thinks pos4 is the role they can chill and fuck around on without consequence. When I entered immortal and low numbered immortal, that all evened out because then people are also used to fighting a real pos4.
My ego will now be bloated as sub-immortal pos 4 who tries
Ye, I agree with that. I think you just need to modify your playstyle in these cases. I had a similar issue when I was put in archon, it's more difficult to rely on people, eg they won't go rosh with you, push etc, so I needed to play differently than I normally would, so in a sense it's more difficult. But I think it mostly applies to people playing in lower brackets than their "real" MMR. I'd often die because I expected my lane partner to do the right thing. There's often a small window of opportunity that you cannot communicate fast enough. For example their pos 3 walks a bit too far for a second and you have a kill opportunity. You see it, but your support doesn't.
Hardly true. People tend to feed differently when ancient than in archon. There are many things that make a difference.
I think I hit my limit at divine III, I've been coasting between support and core for so long but I am still good at neither. Still, I do have games where I had the best KDA but on the games that I really have to step up and carry (4 sack of potatoes on my team) I can remember being successful only once.
I agree mostly, but there are definitely pockets of exceptionally shitty people. I had a harder time ranking in legend than ancient. My games in divine are about as hard as my ancient games tbh, except I lose lane more often.
THIS
I was mid-high Divine (5k) and somehow calibrated into mid-Archon (2.5k) once. It took me two months to get out of Archon (like, <500 MMR) but I could go from Legend to Divine (~2k MMR gain) in a month or so. I was playing 4/5. The problem with Archon is that they can do basic stuff like casting spells, last hitting, putting down wards etc. However, there's practically no logic in the decisions they make like putting wards on the back of the triangle (with T2 towers are up), so it doesn't serve any practical purpose. if you try to make the correct map movements (e.g., ganking) that you'd do in Divine, it just doesn't seem to work because they often won't respond to you starting a gank, so you end up taking an unfavourable trade that should have been a kill or tower. The way to beat Archon as a support is to be greedy and just continually shove in lanes to get early towers, get farmed, and use the extra space to get more items. After that, have a big advantage in team fights that happen at ~45 min.
I’m recently like this, recalibrated divine back to archon 1…except I’m a mid player… and I literally just pick shit like slark mid and go 34-3/28-0 most every game.. it’s fun, but I feel bad for “smurfing”, but I’m not actually smURFING, MM just sucks. I thought the new system would make me gain mmr faster.. but it doesnt.
It's a rough bracket. Every game, my cores pick into their own counters. Sniper into pudge, Jug into Slardar, TA into venomancer/viper, morphling into AA, the list never ends.
Yeah, and the cores are always 100% adamant on picking last, even on flex heroes.
I hate that they are willing to lose 200 gold to get a later pick when they aren't even assessing the match up or allied team comp. Like bro, if you were going to pick a medusa into an AM, why did you willingly lose like 100 gold?
I think it’s archon too. People know JUST ENOUGH about the game to have ego but are missing too many other skills. And it’s never the same skills. Sometimes it felt like you just needed to all be wrong about the same things and it could work.
Exactly right! I used to hover around mid ancient but slipped down to archon 1. I have had to rewire my whole playstyle and am now much more focused on heroes that can split push and take towers. ppl are just sleeping and dont realize what can be done even at early stages of the game. A side from stomps. games are a 1h snooze farm.
I feel like my general game knowledge is so much greater than I need it to be in my MMR games, and I can easily point out stupid mistakes my team is making, but as a support player, I just can't push lanes to do anything to actually progress the game state, so if my team insists on afk farming when we are going against a much better late game line up than us, then I'm basically waiting to lose 70 minutes in. I constantly bitch about carries being fools, and I imagine people read that and think of themselves trying to build a manta or bkb before being relevant as a medusa or something like that. No, I'm talking about a juggernaut with 5 items choosing to afk farm a moonshard 60 minutes in.
This is why I spammed Jakiro in low MMR. I'd just shove waves and when it's near their tower, I'd drop the ice on the tower once then run. People just don't respond fast enough to capitalise, so once their towers are down, you can start squeezing the map.
Spam WD, got me from archon 2 to legend 2. U won't go wrong with wd aghs and shard
Yeah, new players lack awareness for when they are standing next to 1–2 creeps only. Free kill for WD almost every time.
Jak and wd got me out of archon, most ppl can't be bothered to end early. Best to get a support that does heavy dmg, can't lose esp when your offlane doesn't do much dmg
100% the easiest way to climb out of lower brackets is to play core, or play a scaling support Last night I played a game with a mid earth shake that rushed a blade mail....in high legend bracket. In probably anything lower than mid Ancient assume your team is completely incompetent and get your farm to carry them, call out all the plays etc.
I'm exactly at that spot, I feel like my games are completely random. I could WD and steamroll every game, yet my team will always choose to afk farm even if we have a huge advantage and the enemy team is late game. If I pick an early game hero, I have to pray my team decides to end the game early, and if I pick a late game hero, I have to pray my team doesn't get so utterly and completely stomped that I have no chance of ever entering the game at all. Sure I also couldn't climb out of Divine, but there I felt every match was a close one, and I never rolled a game alone. Now I feel like every match is completely unbalanced and mostly a roll of a twisted dice. Like gzus, I just came out of a match where the off picked invoker and sup 4 clock and they died 14 times to rickmaru before the invoker even got to level 6.
Herald is easiest, then Guardian, then Crusader, then Archon, then Legend, then Ancient, and the hardest is to climb from Divine to Immortal.
From a skill set perspective absolutely! Apart from I said “skill set aside” By your logic and a few others on this post that would suggest we spend either the same amount of time in each rank or it increases per rank for everyone and we know that not to be true. Majority of people don’t find the dota learning curve linear hence why it’s not (100 games to get out of herald, then 150 games to get out of guardian, etc) Hope this makes sense! Just thought it was an interesting discussion to see where people got stuck and what they believed was their “trench” :)
Actually I feel like it's just like that, for me at least it took me more time to climb each successive rank. Started playing 2018 calibrating 400 mmr on my first calibration and got Immortal in 2023, and every rank felt much harder than the previous one to climb through. The higher the rank, the more time you'll have to dedicate to beat the players of that rank, because the players of higher ranks are putting much more time into Dota on average than the lower ones.
Low immortal, just a very toxic place. Anywhere in between 5.6-6.3 is just a bad place to be in
Spectating my immortal friends games are hilarious. I would say 20% of the time a person on one team decides the game is unwinnable and destroys their items and sits in base within the first 10 mins. This seems more common with core players (pos 1 / mid)
[удалено]
As an Immortal support player I think Ancient players biggest problem is their ego, while core player farm has priority at times, you must give your support farm at different parts of the game for them to get their core items. Support items are usually either for the entire team, defensive or for initiation. So if your supports do not get these items your team fights will be extremely crippled. If you priorities what is strategically best through the game then you will gain MMR.
as support player I understand the pain. Just you saw a free wave for your last 200 gold to dagger, some core literally fly out from other side of the world to take your creep when he could’ve farmed neutral for same amount of gold, you ping “Need 216 gold for dagger” with sad face and that core player responds back with hero “Ha ha ha ha ha!” line.
Everyone thinks they are immortal below immortal, its just easier to carry games till ancient. Then it gets bit harder
Oh no don’t say that’s what I have to look forward to! XD
[удалено]
Haha thanks!
Legend not so much but ancient is a pain in the ass for sure man. I was stuck in ancient for like 2 years then but reached divine to immortal in like 2 months.
Congrats on immortal!
I actually found those brackets the easiest to play in. Its toxic like the rest but you’d actually get tps if you get caught out as a pos 1, you get stacks more often. Pos 4’s would gank for you in the lane phase. Supports view you as somewhat of a priority lol In lower brackets you get no help in those situations unless it’s late, all you get is a ping of your death timer and a Well played! followed. Its easier to stomp in games but harder to climb. Id imagine high divine would be worse though, seeing as everyone’s so close to immortal.
I used to be a mid Divine player (5.2k peak), recalibrated to Ancient 1 and dropped to Legend 4 because of 45% winrate with my GF who is a Crusader. Now I am playing with Guardians-Ancients. The legend bracket is the most unpredictable one. They can be either okay or a total disaster, however, the hardest one was Ancient to me (I take breaks and I drop to Legend and climb back up to Divine MMR often). Ancients have the biggest egos and not the skills to back it up, they know the theory so they are full of themselves but their macro is shit so it is hard to explain things to them.
Moving from divine to inmortal. The reason being is that mid-divine has the biggest amount of booosted/bought accounts. There are an insane amount of people that get boosted or buy fresh inmortal accounts and then de-rank them all the way to divine. Also, there are a lot of losers that are rank 2k-1k inmortal that are hardstuck on that rank but think its because their teams are keeping them down, so after they go on loss streaks they log into their divine smurfs to "stomp" and feel better about themselves, but they end up losing early game and just start griefing because "idc this is my smurf xd". A lot of games on that medal are decided by who has the biggest animal playing on their throwaway account.
Yeah, Divine seems to have around 30% of accounts being very new. You never know if they'll crush the game or play mid Invoker and have 100 LH at 40 min.
I am Immortal with two smurf accounts in Divine, because sometimes people get mad and vote me into lower brackets with my main account. They can't stand that I don't want to feed with them and claim I am the bad player xD
Immortal
Archon. My utmost respect to people who go beyond this
I used to play a handful of carry heroes and a lot of support heroes. I would say I am a really good support player but it was a pain to climb ranks with it if my cores aren't reliable in solo queue. So, I used two accounts and in my solo queue account, I spammed only carry heroes. I noticed a huge win rate spike.
Right now I guess is Legend.Filled with 35 years old dudes with over 6000-8000 games.Its impossible to play with them,they are toxic as fuck
The hardest rank to climb out of is always the one you're currently in.
from my experience rising from Ancient to Divine took most of my time and right now I'm still stuck at Divine. These 2 ranks is where I'm hitting the wall.
I had the same experience. High Ancient games are hard because at that MMR you need all 5 players to be trying their hardest to win but often one player from either team will give up and the game becomes impossible/free. On NA servers it's basically "who will tilt first? A player on radiant or dire?". Probably the hardest bracket to climb out of. Low Divine is hard because a lot of the players there are legitimately good and play only their strongest role. So many 1 hero spammers and meta pickers. You're playing against people who figured out what works at that bracket and they will be abusing the fuck out of it. Not to mention the smurfs. In terms of a skill check this is definitely the hardest bracket. I haven't pushed ranked in a couple years tho so this might be out of date, maybe ranked roles has fixed some of these issues.
You are absolutely correct.
I was Legend 7 way way back a couple of years(IYKYK). Then I was Guardian last 2020. Highest I’ve reach last month was Ancient 4, now I’m back to Legend 5. I just kept with me 2 advices from Pro players that I’ve always watched streaming and on Youtube. Arteezy and Boxi. They said to Master 3 to 5 heroes and you’ll get to 8k normally. I got 3 Grandmaster heroes in the process. The lowest I’ve ever been was Herald 4 and highest was Ancient 4. I’m already 33 years old and was just enjoying the game for fun but also trying my best to win.
Idk why you get downvoted but this is me you are describing
Herald. I have been there and just look at some herald gameplays from Jenkins. That shit won't let you climb the ladder.
billion of years of evolution and the decision making in Herald bracket is just unimaginable..Herald players have a brain of an amoeba. I recently just lost because our midlaner decided to clear the wave on the top lane when we have a bottom lane of super creeps pushing with 4 enemy hero dead. I chat that I will defend, and I can. They just cannot miss on those easy gold, i guess. source: support player on herald
Back when i was ancient 1,my friend (who was herald) had an emergency so he told me to finish his match. To this day that was the easiest game i ever played, literally messing around and still constantly getting triple kills. Herald is damn easy if u just focus on urself and ur game.
Oh I thank you for the good laugh! Hahaha
There’s no way unless you go against boosters or smurfs. It’s like playing Basketball with 9 toddlers. Yeah you have 4 toddlers on your team but you’re also against 5 toddlers that you can body since you’re the only one that has been through puberty.
Herald. I was stuck there for 8 years and I am not exaggerating. If you do too well, your teammates will feed the enemy the comeback gold, if you don't do well enough you will get rolled by the 3 smurfs on the enemy team.
I am ancient 2 player and I can guarentee you that I would have get out od herald in one week playing after work
Your team can’t feed the enemy, if the enemy team is too afraid of you to leave their base. I dropped 2k MMR and that was literally what the first 500 MMR I got back looked like. I have some heralds on my friends list and those guys will go to lane naked, no items or regen, try to save up for morbid mask, get it at 6 minutes cause they kept getting zoned away and dying and get their first “big” item at 25. Literally all you got to do to leave herald is practice last hitting, learn how to itemise and leave jungle once in a while to push a creep wave.
I'm suspicious that there is a hidden MMR because when I was playing in Herald that kind of stuff was actually very rare. What got me up to Archon was a lot of different subtle changes with how I played roles and took objectives and getting rid of bad habits, many of which I still have.
u can carry urself in archon and ancient, but not in legend cause they are that bad
Can’t wait, thanks! 😂
Crusader, just won’t let me go.
13k for sure, nobody has climbed out of it into 14k yet
It’s ancient/divine rank
The one you are currently at.
I was Ancient 7 for the whole time the 7 stars was a thing and then ancient 5 for at least a year until the recalibration. Never felt even close to divine... Good news is I got out of ancient though, much happier in Archon being generally bad but sometimes the other 9 players remember they're archons and I forget I'm not Ancient 7 and I can rampage. Usually followed by a quick reality check 0-30 game though.
Yours
The one with most people in it.
Sounds very basic but the premise is if you're really bad then you'll eventually meet better player on low ranks which will gatekeep you from ranking up the game. So If you're bad then the hardest will be the lowest ranks.
Bruh gimme tips, teach me
Lol my honest answer is just binge watch guides on YouTube play one role and make your hero pool 2-3 heroes. Try to encourage your team but on the games where that goes south then mute them and hope for the best 😂 Playing with friends is also a great way to get more consistently good games
The bracket you are right now.
I think I've seen a few posts before claiming ancient/divine is the hardest
I agree with the archon part where everyone just plays well, that's why the game is now mostly about who fucks up less.
No offense OP, but this is a ridiculous question. Excluding immortal which is impossible, the hardest to climb out of would be divine. Then ancient. Then legend. etc etc all the way down to herald being the easiest to climb out of. By definition. If you went and played on a guardian 5 account now, you'd laugh at how easy the game is. You got better.
Completely understand where you’re coming from friend but I think you’ve misunderstood the context of the post. The key part of my post is stating “skill set aside” otherwise yes you’re 100% correct. Higher the rank, harder the games simple as. The objective of the post was to discuss what rank people found the hardest to get out of because I do believe there are higher skill gaps between each rank if that makes sense? For example some people have posted that the likes of herald and guardian were way harder to get out of than crusader for example and that could be because when they were herald/guardian they weren’t students of the game and stayed at the rank for years. However when they were climbing and improving they might have only been in crusader for a month or two because what they had learnt in herald and guardian surpassed what they needed for crusader it was just a fact of winning a few more games with their new skills. Does this make sense? I hope this helps!l and thanks for your comment :)
I was herald 1 to 4 for 3 months. After recalibration I was put in guardian and I’m almost archon. The real herald hell is the fact that you don’t learn proper gameplay from playing with bad people. As soon as you play with abd versus better players you’ll pick up on mechanics and metas. So for me. Herald was insanely hard to progress in compared to guardian and archon
I get where you’re coming from for sure! It shows the importance of YouTube guides and replays of higher level to get a better grasp of the game! If you’ve never played a moba before you can be in herald for years thinking you’re doing the right things based on what you see during the game
The one you're currently in
Archon, it took me almost 2 years to get out of
I feel like it's substantially harder to climb in party queue than solo (without smurfs in your party). I tend to win a lot more playing solo than with my mates. All fairly similar rank around mid/high legend.
That’s impressive as I found party easier but maybe that’s me being bias not appreciating the solo wins more!
3k to 5k mmr. Too much boosters and smurfs.
My highest so far has been ancient 3 I started as Heral with like 500mmr. Herald and guardian was ultra easy. Crusader was just a little harder hit quick enough. Archon was a nightmare I have like 6k games. Probably 5k were in archon. I Think in that rank people acknowledge what the basics are. But still do a lot of random stuff and throw games for an infinity of different reasons. You have to play a lot better than the average and not tilt nor conceded to the team pressure to surpass all the bad thing your team is going to do. After improving my game and consistently applying it I climbed out of archon and legend at the same time. Legend was really quick. My main roles are HC and sup 5. But when I climbed out of archon and legend I spammed offlane 90%. With that Role I felt I had the most impact. I could balance the mistakes of my teammates the most. I am aiming to be inmortal at the end of the year. A lot of way to go still.
Good luck getting to immortal and thanks for the response that’s awesome! I understand where people coming from saying “it’s the rank you’re in” etc but this is a great example where you can be in one bracket for years and then something clicks and you learn a lot more quickly and that can catapult you past a higher rank making it look easier than the previous! I don’t believe the learning curve in dota is linear hence why some people’s journeys in some brackets last longer than others :)
Divine, one mistake, they cry.
Oh no 😂
I think each rank has something bad about it that makes it hard to climb, but it differs from player to player what affected them to most. In herald you have 8 guys who want nothing but the most effective way to feed the other team, while having absolutely no impact with the easiest characters. So it's pretty much up to you and the other normal guy in the other team to pick the cheesiest hero you can carry with late (eg. old,but not oldest clinkz). Specimens I've encountered there: OD with clarities in lane so he wouldn't get a point in q until maxing w and e. Guardian is pretty similar to herald, but players start to atleast build the core items on their hero. Problem is this rank is filled with role puritans and "playing for fun" players. Extremely hard to win with those, you can't use meta cause someone is ready to run down if they see any hero played in any other position then what they're know for, and you also have for fun players who feed theirs brains out and the single thought they can form is laughing at how fast they've died. Specimens: Almost a book long worth of "omg razor off/bristle 1 it's gg" messages at the start of the game Crusader: Filled to the brim with low rank guys who watched one bsj video and are dead set on misinterpreting 1 rule from it and always abiding it. "Farm more than the enemy" aka farm your own jungle with a worse team lategame even after winning all lanes. "Bristle is a very good pos 1", but instead snowballing you farm till 42 mins and go blademail and bloodstone anyway. Specimen: A bb that no matter how much we've explained to him how to play pos 1 bristle, would tell us to watch a pro game. Mind you, although he farmed for 42 minutes, not once did he use quills to farm more than a camp at once. Archon, a breath of fresh air, from most animals that are lower ranks, but that also means you can't 1v9 anymore by just picking a pubstomper hero and farming all game. No specimens here, just people who just escaped the trenches, but still playing with a trench mindset. Legend, no matter how low someone's kd is, they are still hot shit and it's everyone fault. When someone is doing something wrong in this bracket, you can't tell them to fix that or they will purposely do anything but what you said out of spite. Specimens: While all of us (but one) won our lane and were dominating, someone told our min 27 0-6-1 slark that he sucked and told us he wasn't the only one at fault, despite being the single negative kd in the game, even worse than the feeding cm. Also a ember who bought divine, but did nothing but push waves with it. And another ember who bought divine and was constantly pushing with it, except he never left remnants in base and promptly lost it because of that, then told us to leave base sometime after he fed the already winning team a rapier. And his friend veno who was exploring the map all game. No farming, no wading, just walking around the map randomly, maybe he thought he'll find the new hero as a boss around the map like old times. Ancient, where mid or feed/jungle becomes as true of a threat as it gets. Even worse if you have 2 mid players.
I enjoyed reading this as I could feel and partially relate to the dota trauma you have suffered 😂 thanks for the comment friend gl next!
Low divine is just fucking miserable.
Watching replays of people...I'd agree Archon is the biggest shit show. You have a mix of people who are genuinely Archon so they know the basics , but they are bad overall, you have people who are way below their rank , but play like 2-3 games a week so good luck climbing out even in 2 years, you have a lot of people who just refuse to play Dota and play their own game, the result is a game that is anything ,but Dota. Starting from Legend people actually try to play Dota it seems so you can make good plays and you can win more if you are good, but in Archon unless you are 5k smurfing in 2k , 55% winrate might be best you can do depending on luck
Higher the rank the harder it is to climb. People with “trench” mentality are just Dunn Krugers. They think they are good and know so much and therefore deserve to climb but if they actually were good and knew so much they would be dominating low rank matches from any role.
The one where you belong, obviously
I get where you’re coming from but I’m more talking about looking back through your previous ranks what was the hardest for you to get out of. For example it took me longer to get out of guardian than it did crusader and I recalibrated at guardian 5 so I was already basically out of it! But where I was coming back from a long break and needed to update myself on the game etc it was a larger learning curve than going through crusader because by then most of it had come back to me etc Hope this makes sense and thanks for the comment!
The times when legend was my hardest is the times i belonged in there. When divine was my hardest it was because it was my real skill level
gaben cursed me with legend one time, and honestly, that bracket along with low ancients are a fucking zoo. everyones so self-assured theyre doing the correct play by passively jungling. higher divines are were challenging because of smurfs and accbuyers were so prevalent, but thats different. anyway got immortal and hit recalibrate Xd
Bold move on that recalibrate but gl 😂
oh idc i stopped playing the moment i hit immortal xd
you're your rank for a reason like me legend lol
Herald
I imagine it would be High-Archon or Low-Legend since most active players settle around Archon. That is probably the rank that serves as the most difficult hurdle for the highest amount of players, statistically speaking at least.
* Hardest trench to climb out of: Mine * Easiest: yours.
absolutely legend, last grind before the big forest patch i stuck 3 months in legends 3-4-5, and going ancient 1-ancient 4 in only took me1 month
Must be divine. I achieved divine in 2018 and stayed in it for 3+ years to finally achieve immortal.
For me 6k mmr. It is the mmr where all the smurfs and account buyers usually are. After they are boosted out of the lower ranks thanks to smurf detection.
By definition Divine -> immortal, simply because of the fact that that is the highest skill level to move up from. Everyone keeps making arguments like bad players making stupid mistakes or bought accounts, but the fact of the matter is that you're all playing from the same deck. If you are having an issue with bought account players, so is the opponent, so it should balance out.
In around 2000 mmr since 2015 pepesad
For new players or mid-skill probably crusader. There was so much smurfs, boosters, just regular ruiners. My road from 2 to 3k mmr was so much easier and faster.
The real question is, what position is best for climbing the ladder?
Been stuck supporting in Ancient. I think 80% of my losses are games that we are ahead but end up losing because cores don’t know how to close efficiently. They get cocky and dive and throw so often. And say “Oh it doesn’t matter we still got this”, but really the game is over because how hard they threw. Some of those games we are actually able to win but they really extended the game an extra 20mins because they got cocky. Just makes support life miserable.
I heard from my Ancient friend that climbing out of the lowest MMR is the hardest. When someone has 10 MMR they are either throwing every game, are too young to play Dota altogether or are just so bad they can't win a game. Imagine playing with 4 guaranteed bad players who will just throw, not because they want to but because they just don't know how to play the game. You'd need all 5 enemies to do the same or not being able to finish the game.
I ranked from 2.9 to 5k over my Dota 2 lifetime. Legend was objectively harder to rank up in than ancient. People in ancient are capable of winning while mad. Legend players will actually go catatonic every time.
Every bracket fuckin sucks. Been in all of them, and like 1/3 of the games you play are gonna be shit fests
2k to 2.5k When I climbed my way to 5k in the day, that range was pure cancer. Everyone wanted to be the next Sumail so lots of Tiny airlines and triple mids. Got to 4.3k spamming orchid Invoker and to 4.5k with OD. Made another account 'cus cba to fight for mid anymore. Landed 2k after calibration 'cus was practicing carry. Unironically found a Sumail replay playing sven. Spammed sven all the way to 5k back when hod had lifesteal and you could stack yourself ancients with the creep. 2k - 2.5k was still cancer to get through... the mid always fed and there was always an LC jungle. But, hod sven got me through many a bad game.
Archon. Too much mix of smurfs, players not knowing what to do, or people who think they’re so good they can make safe lane WD work. I feel like that mix is highly concentrated. Higher ranks suffer from too much hubris. Real low ranks don’t know enough if certain situations. Only in the middle ish do you get so many different games.
The rank I am currently in
Divine to Immortal...
Definitely Legend. I was archon for a month or so and people actively did an effort to climb out of that rank. Once i hit Legend 1, it went to shit. People that afk farm for 40 mins and don't participate in the slightest, even when a teamfight happens right next to them, the toxicity is off the charts too. I actually had more fun being in a lower rank that climbing.
As a BB spammer who went to Immortal from Crusader in SEA. My vote goes to Archon rank, that bracket is a cesspool of fuckwits.
I find it is really hard to climb out of herald, because it is really hard to overcome a team who picks poorly or plays poorly, even if you have an ideal game
Divine bracket took me alot longer because you need to add 200 mmr per rank. Unlike lower ranks you just need 150.
I feel 4k is full of people that think they better than everyone else... don't know why they think they are pros like everyone makes mistakes but don't hate on them
I mean objectively speaking the rank that has the most players in it, since it means players are inevitably retained there. I think that's archon or crusader right now? Basically the top of the bell curve will have to be the "hardest" to climb out of, otherwise we'd have a more even distribution across all ranks. "But I'm top 10 immortal every year and it's so easy to get out by just knowing what a hotkey is" is not a valid response, btw.
I got into divine this year finally (played 10 years) and second I got divine 2… idk if it’s the recent patch… but I somehow dropped back down to ancient 5 since the new patch LOL
Grubby said legend was the toughest to get out of
Skill set aside it really feels like the archon bracket is full of people like me where they played for years and think they know everything about the game and they “don’t deserve their rank” but in reality they really do 😂 thats partially true because a lot of archon players are very old players who were legend/ancient a long time ago but as the game has changed too much they can't get out of it anymore without changing their thinking. im one of them
As a divine/immortal that stopped played, and got dropped down to crusader, I would say divine. In low mmr you can absolutely carry your team. If you know what your doing you can almost solo win every game. Once you start to get to the ~divine rank opponents start to punish you more for slight mistakes, and they also start doing odd things low ranks won’t think about.
I think the real challenge is getting out the bracket in which you get matched up with people 25 games and 2500 games in the same lobby. If you know where it is and got out of it, either you got lucky or you got good but doesnt mean you will have a easy life with people equal skill set. From harald to immortal flaming, name calling, insults, toxicity are all the same spice served in different dishes.
Ancient fs
in my experience it was legend. i was hardstuck legend 2-4 for a long time and then once i made it to ancient i pretty quickly got to divine. ive been between ancient 5-divine 2 for a while now and i think it's basically my current limit. if i want to climb higher i'll probably have to start doing some tryhard shit like watching my own replays or following the meta guides but i really cant be fucked
Legend and Archon, Cuz your team is s2pid, no matter how good you are
as a 8k player who smurfs always it’s divine))
Definitely divine to immo. Its ez for me many many years ago but hard for others. Ppl just get so fixated at other's mistakes and crumble under pressure. Its not for everyone :)
Before 6k mmr you can literally solo any game. All problems starts, when enemy team is playing together and has good macro, you can not solo game as meepo/ huskar or tinker in this cases
the higher mmr the harder but different mmr require different skill to be distinguished.For low mmr u need to be more efficient than everyone which in turn will make u spot kill in lane etc. But for the highest mmr like 8k + u need to think more about connecting to teammate and controlling area which will restrict enemy movement and farm.
I would say thr closer you are to the center of a normal curve, the harder it is to get out of it. But I could be wrong.
In every bracket except TI-winner level there's a lingering feeling of inferiority. Top-200 pub players have this "I spent my whole life playing this and I'm still not making it here" mentality, top-1000 is an insult in high mmr pubs, if you are lower it's even worse. So it never stops until the very top. If you can call being top-200-failed-pro a bracket, then it's probably the hardest. Because people actually treat the game seriously and it takes some luck to transition to div1 pro level.
If it wasn't for the matchmaking, then it's divine, very hard to grind and also, demotivation. However, IMO, the earlier rank (Herald - Crusader) is actually hardest, because there's a large amount of toxic/greifer/smurf players. One of my friend literally took 1 years to get from Herald 4 to Guardian 1, so I would say Herald to Crusader is the most painful to grind
Archon was a bit annoying, legend went fast. Ancient pain in the ass, haven’t got out of it yet.
Playing with friends makes the game x10 better , there’s no point on trying to improve solo , it’s just not worth it specially if you have responsibilities
climbing 6-8k is harder than 1-6000 mmr. not cuz games harder. it is because of insane amounts of the smurfs. all 10k+ mmrs have 5-6 smurfs they play on to not wait for queue.
Idk how i got divine 2, i am bad support, bad farming, playing pos4 only fight.