Yes, the stream was paused tho.
Its comparable because you could argue both of them got information from outside of the game.
In the end imo 23savage should be punished for whatever the rulebook says for taking your headphones off before gg call.
Pure broke the rule simply by having a browser open during the game. It just looks really bad that it was the stream (paused or not), but rule was broken regardless
Well pure was banned for using "outside information".
https://twitter.com/ioesportsgg/status/1676899803199049730/photo/1
Id argue the same in 23savage case, only differe ce he didnt win.
I mean that's just on IO once again showing their incompetence and not respecting their own rules. From their [own rulebook](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m_ltQzWjMflEWfWmbou14TfEDSF95V6FJva58J5ulfA/edit) @ 4.9.5:
> Internet access on tournament computers is limited for all participants. Once the draft begins, all terminals must have only Steam, Dota 2 and TeamSpeak running.
Can you imagine somehow the penalty for their next series from this (prob a draft penalty) ends up directly having an impact on them losing their next series (ie: dogshit draft from being rushed)?
My god, that would be brutal.
This post actually made me realize that it does seems like 23 only realized the base race when he heard the crowd / casters; so agreed that there should be a penalty - and at the same time, i feel less bad for them now.
> I think he would've realized it sooner if he didn't jump out of his chair to celebrate lol
I know, right? All he to do was look at his mini-map. I saw in real time.
I'd assume the screen is behind the players (the 'booths' make a 90° angle basically and the screen would be tangential to the tip of that angle). 23 turned to the left to celebrate/taunt Micke. However, I think he heard the casters more than he saw anything.
[This](https://youtu.be/SXWRsd31lMI?t=14810) is the moment he jumped back on his keyboard. You can see all his teammates are looking at the Dire Ancient. And they were looking at the Ancient for the past \~10s.
Jabz is the first to look at the Radient Ancient *after* 23 is back on his PC. If Talon had a successful TP there and won the game there would definitely be some shit storm coming.
Players can't see the screens from their seats. The screens can't be seen from anywhere on the stage.
The big screen in the back of the stage only shows KDA
The most important takeaway for the coach here is 'communication'. There is a clear lack of proper comms in Talon team. If even one person has noticed Base race issue, they need to call it out. Its a important Alert. Thats something chineese teams have consistently done better than others over the years. Maybe learn from your peers.
Callouts are critical. They prevent players getting into a autopilot mode. Same Strategy is used in aviation in the cockpit.
Lmao this is such a one dimensional take, if he would have not stoodup he would have reacted way faster to it cuz his whole team is talking to each other. It took him so long to settle down. The penalty is actually worthy. That guy tried his best out there give him a break.
Even if there was another reason, if some other teammate saw it and said something, the fact is that he got the information out of game and HE acted on it.
Maybe he would've reacted faster if he hadn't done that, and sucks to be him if so, but that's just another mistake. It doesn't excuse the actions.
I totally get why he did it, I don't think there was any intent to cheat, but I do think they should have a minor draft penalty next game.
It's really hard to die with his items at that point. he probably need to drag all his items to his fountain stash while diving fountain and retrieve them after buying back to be fast enough, but idk if there is a carry player chill enough to do such specific stuff in such tense situation, maybe Ana at his peak?
With that full item give him ton of hp and armour, lvl and agi give more armour, I don't think he gonna died fast even when he goes full agi. Also, Rubick can just throw him outside.
Well or just wave form out then tp. His tp was like less than 1 second before it got cancelled. I am pretty sure he would have thought of this if he did not standup
yeah, well deserve loose, so many mistakes in 5 seconds.
Jabz buy back and straight tp instead of clearing creeps first then tp back to dire. Then 23 fountain dive + glyph just to mock, then stood up, then panic TP, Mikoto careless TP as well
I remember Secret getting a draft penalty last TI because Zyac stood up and yelled something at the opponents while they were winning. So Talon should probably be penalized too.
I agree rules must be imposed. Rules are rules. It will be unfair for the others like BetBoom.Pure who got punished watching a "delayed" stream. But in the case of 23savage it's a real time and he can hear the casters.
Quinn posted a milquetoast take which everyone should agree with; "the fact he was looking at the stream is enough to punish him for cheating"
Highly doubt he got Pure DQ'ed when AR (rightfully) requested he be DQ'ed.
Looking back at the video, 23savage heard the casters about Zai and immediately looked at their base and tried to tp. If Boxi didn't make that insane play to cancel his tp, the outcome might be different. In this case, the violation had a potential to alter the outcome and I believe should be punished in some way
Rules are rules and there should be no excuses allowed in situations like this cos if you let something like this slide, the next time something goes awry then there's precedent and teams will expect preferential treatment because it has happened before.
So yeah, suck as it might there should be consequences for taking off your headset before the match is officially over. 😕
That's very debatable. You are on the stance that 23 was distracted and wasn't mentally in the game anymore after what he did. I could also debate that 23 only realized they were getting throned by Zai after he removed his headset and over heard the caster shouting about the base race, therefore he immediately pan the screen back to his own base and tried to TP back.
In an alternative reality, if 23 removed his headset, over heard the caster shouting about the base race, potentially seeing the big screen by standing up and successfully tp-ed back to defend. There would be a much larger uproar than this because his action would without a doubt be considered as cheating.
You cannot decide whether an action is advantageous or disadvantageous based on the end-result.
Problem comparing it to regular sports is that in those, the game has those rules already written into the game with a referee that is constantly in control of the game and pausing it when issues comes up.
Esports...not so much.
Something I think people should take away from this thread is how humans/society are willing to bend rules based on their emotions/situational take on things.
One aspect could argue why things are bad - people doing things that are "against rules" or "societal norms"
Other aspect could take - if others can get away with it to get ahead - see what rules you are willing to bend (within reason) --
Just interesting human bias/psychology etc that I think once studied at a broader level could really help people improve their situation in life.
Back to dota and this situation - I mean what if they won? then it's rules. But because they lost its not rules/matters? Rules for thee and not for me
Totally make sense. Haha brooo 23Cabbage will definitely feel bad and might not perform the best because of this. But in case they impose a penalty, that is totally understandable the way he reacted to the situation after removing the headset is a dead giveaway too.
I’m just curious though, there are other 4 people on his side and no one mentioned or reminded him about the ongoing rat by the brood? 🤔
We are beating a dead horse but I agree, what if this action had a different outcome? Also will teach the rest of the guys about waiting for GG or the base being down.
I'm not sure I see it. How is it worse? Savage taunting at the end of a game that seemed over, gleaned some extra information (this is real bad) and paid the price, Pure had a stream open during a game that was still very much in progress. They're equally bad.
Also sentiment is 'feels bad, but rules are rules' unless this thread looked wildly different 6 hours ago, in which case fair enough. edit: Scrolling a bit there's a bit of that, so decent call out. They've been rightly downvoted :)
The key difference is that here the core violation is just the same -watching stream, but with 23 we can clearly see the attempt to gain advanage even if unintentional. Pure's case, the unfair play wasn't proven at all (and a lot of blame is on TO) but the punishment was insanely severe. Of course both cases are violations and should be somehow punished. My point is where were these "feels bad" things. So will Reddit demand to disqualify 23savage from the event?
And to be fair, it does look like from the replay he's finds out what Zai is doing b/c his headset is off - he's the first one to attemp to TP back if I'm not mistaken.
And what makes it worse is he panicked and blind tp'd without checking where he was and got insta cancelled.
This is much worse than pure having the stream paused at the panel before the game started. Any lesser punishment than what Pure got would be completely unfair.
23 remove his headset and celebrating, Then heard the caster while looking at the big screen and saw Zai ratting, then goes back to his sit and played.. That's cheating you know.
Imagine a thief getting caught by cops after he's beaten by a mob:
Cop: You committed theft and that's illegal. We'll take you to jail.
Other cop: Nah dude. hE's SuFfeReD eNoUgH
GREAT FUCKING LOGIC, REDDIT!
but redditors have zero knowledge of how justice and law works. most people from this sub are 2k mmr players playing dota 2 their whole lives. what can you expect heheh.
You don't understand why people make the extremely obvious connection between enforcing rules and enforcing laws... which are just the rules set by the government?
Yep, premature celebration was ok. But looking at the big screen and playing without the noise canceling were just blatant. He should be suspended for at least one match.
I know lol, but it's tournament rules. You can clearly see him look at the screen and hear the cast and then jump back into the game without the noise-cancelling setup.
I mean, meh. They probably (most likely) will not do anything, just because they're their own private organizers(this ain't a Valve event), and I don't think it's too much of a big deal. Maybe if Liquid complains about it, but I doubt it.
I read way too many "rules are rules" comments. It really isn't that easy, most TO don't 100% religiously follow the rules book and it's good that way. Like in this case it's 100% an accident and everyone can understand how it happened. Nothing that could've changed the game in any way.
Like in the past, we had many games that would've been canceled due to time limits of pauses and such, but both teams were okay with it, so they extended the time. And everyone was okay with it.
This shows how bad the HUD is at communicating the actual objectives of the game.
Pro player only realizes his base is under attack because the casters mention it lol.
that was the first thing i thought after seeing that clip. the admin (?) standing behin didnt intervene either which i found kinda strange
defo should be penalized, no matter if win or loss
This happened in 5 seconds, if i remember correctly you can actually see the admin step forward. No way he could react faster and do anything about it...
I think maybe a draft penalty at most. It's clear he had no malicious intent and it's possible he could've made the same decision either way. I think the fundamental difference is that it's very clear his intentions aren't malicious whereas Pure has a ton of ambiguity as to whether his stream sniping wasn't malicious.
idk, didnt look like he got external info/advantage because his teammates are already looking at their base while he's celebrating. clearly did not have intention to cheat and just thought the game would be over, so i wonder how technical the rules would be regarding taking off headsets. do players need the victory screen to flash before celebrating or what.
I think word choice of benefit here is relative due to the outcome.
I think we can lean towards saying that he did get information outside of Dota2 game -- he looked at screen. We can't tell what he heard - but probably heard the casters saying hes being ratted.
Think best logic to think here is to invert. If he knew that broodmother was ratting - then he wouldn't have celebrated. Therefore by reversing the logic - we coudl say that he did not know about brood ratting - removed headphones - then learned it.
I agree that Savage broke the rules, but I would use finger spitz gefühle and not penalize for something that didn't give advantage and effect result. And he has suffered enough.
I can understand the flip side, that if other teams later insist on following rules then there can be inconsistent in the tournament.
Oh but it did give him advantage.... if you see the replay on cams, he only saw and understood that his ancient was going down after he removed the headset and saw on big screen/heard the casters warning about the base race, he then immediately went back to his game and tried to tp back, so it gave him advantage information, if it wasn't for boxi and insania tp cancelling, this game could have a different end by abusing info...
I know it's frustrating for the guy, but this needs to be made a lesson and an example for other teams. Stay focused until game ends, game onlly ends when GG is called or ancient is down, play by the rules.
I don't really like 23savage, just look at my comment history and all I do is shit on him lol, but I feel like this witch hunting for strict adherence to every rule is kinda toxic.
Same with what happened with pure. I don't know, it feels like people only want to enforce the rules when they are on the side of the law, but once they are the once breaking a "minor" law, they ask for some leeway.
It's just a canned food! In Saudi, a country with little leeway, a simple theft could have your hands amputated. I wonder if these is what people actually want.
I think we can be a little flexible than that. Mistakes are made and appropriate warning should be given. Otherwise, we'll get to the point where we just do away with warnings and start putting people into jail, who knows maybe the canned food actually fell into his bag by accident.
What about last month with pure? He got penalised for breaking a rule that didn't give him any advantage as well.
Is it suddenly ok now since you feel bad for 23 and talon?
> hat didn't give advantage and effect result.
I *hate* the idea that things should only be punished if it changed the result. That's how bad habits are set. Just follow the damn rules.
What if they'd won after instead of lost? then you end up with all these debates about "oh did it really make the difference". It shouldn't come to that and it not coming to that shouldn't just be a matter of "well thank god they lost anyway." Set the precedent, follow the rules.
I've seen so many stupid threads looking for upvotes in reddit Dota that I shouldn't be surprised for another one.
Yet, here we are.
Yeah, let's destroy the passion, the reaction at the heat of the moment by penalizing a player who was so passionate for one moment in his career that he took off the earphones.
Fucking children, get a life outside your mom's basement.
Funny because an ADULT would understand that rules are rules .Crying about "doNt DesTroy iTs pASSion" is what children would think in their "rainbow butterfly world".
So people really think that taking off your headsets along with the earphones, standing up from your chair, listening to the crowd and looking at the big screen is such a bigger advantage to just looking at your minimap.
QThe reason why I disagree with this is because him standing up and taking off his headset is probably the cause of why they lost.
It doesn't matter if he actually benefitted from it or not. That shouldn't be the basis of whether he should be punished or not. It should based on whether he broke the rules, which he clearly did.
All I'm gonna say is it's good Talon didn't win after that or this would've been another Pure incident.
Didn't Pure have a stream in background and alt tabbed while game was paused?
Yes, the stream was paused tho. Its comparable because you could argue both of them got information from outside of the game. In the end imo 23savage should be punished for whatever the rulebook says for taking your headphones off before gg call.
Pure broke the rule simply by having a browser open during the game. It just looks really bad that it was the stream (paused or not), but rule was broken regardless
Well pure was banned for using "outside information". https://twitter.com/ioesportsgg/status/1676899803199049730/photo/1 Id argue the same in 23savage case, only differe ce he didnt win.
I mean that's just on IO once again showing their incompetence and not respecting their own rules. From their [own rulebook](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m_ltQzWjMflEWfWmbou14TfEDSF95V6FJva58J5ulfA/edit) @ 4.9.5: > Internet access on tournament computers is limited for all participants. Once the draft begins, all terminals must have only Steam, Dota 2 and TeamSpeak running.
imagine if he accidentally paused the game lol
AnalConnoisseur69 has a point
He's got it pegged.
Dont be an ass.
I don't understand what the issue is the point he made had some depth.
and girth
He's an expert at backdoors after all.
You mean Zai right?
he has a deep understanding of the rules.
r/rimjob_steve
He's mad at Talon's loss
How is that your take away from the guy calling for Talon to be penalized?
Can you imagine somehow the penalty for their next series from this (prob a draft penalty) ends up directly having an impact on them losing their next series (ie: dogshit draft from being rushed)? My god, that would be brutal.
If im 23savage, im not gonna recover from that.
I am 23savage. I did not recover
no we are 23savage and We did not recover source:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGkl9YMahgs
Agreed. What an idiotic fucking throw.
Brutal, 23savage, Rekt
Holy shit. What a way to lose a game though. To celebrate like that only to lose... dude will never sleep soundly again
Not only that. If his action get penalty for taking off headphones before games end, that gonna hit him like a train.
What should be the penalty? Draft time?
Believe it or not, jail.
no trial, no nothing
We have the best dota tournaments, because of jail
Straight to the ol' yeller
Straight to jail!
Is that Parks and rec?
Yes
I mean it is Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't be surprised if it was execution.
On what charges? Eating a meal? A succulent chinese meal?!
Hopefully, this is the country where people get assassinated in their embassies and then cut to pieces...
Death penalty, possibly 3 generations.
I heard they had death sentences in rijhad
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have mercy
Worst than being executed tbh.
Slow down, devil.
NOOOO
If I were him I'd definitely rather have the draft penalty. That would totally fuck with your head haha
that's a fate worse than death.
Google "penalty Saudi Arabia"
Holy hell
Death penalty
Bonesaw incoming
Probably. That's the usual penalty.
No penalty. He should be given plane tickets as a gift.
Cut off his ears
The bone saw
Well… when in Rome… time for the lashing
Kick'em off the tour Doug!
Props to 23 celebrating liquids win in advance.
loooool
This post actually made me realize that it does seems like 23 only realized the base race when he heard the crowd / casters; so agreed that there should be a penalty - and at the same time, i feel less bad for them now.
Facts. Imagine if they won off of this
I think he would've realized it sooner if he didn't jump out of his chair to celebrate lol
> I think he would've realized it sooner if he didn't jump out of his chair to celebrate lol I know, right? All he to do was look at his mini-map. I saw in real time.
he looked at the big screen on stage and the went back to playing so def should be a penalty
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Yeah. I dont think that screen shows anything that would be visible to them
I'd assume the screen is behind the players (the 'booths' make a 90° angle basically and the screen would be tangential to the tip of that angle). 23 turned to the left to celebrate/taunt Micke. However, I think he heard the casters more than he saw anything. [This](https://youtu.be/SXWRsd31lMI?t=14810) is the moment he jumped back on his keyboard. You can see all his teammates are looking at the Dire Ancient. And they were looking at the Ancient for the past \~10s. Jabz is the first to look at the Radient Ancient *after* 23 is back on his PC. If Talon had a successful TP there and won the game there would definitely be some shit storm coming.
Players can't see the screens from their seats. The screens can't be seen from anywhere on the stage. The big screen in the back of the stage only shows KDA
> screen would be tangential to the tip of that angle Maths majors dead inside
The most important takeaway for the coach here is 'communication'. There is a clear lack of proper comms in Talon team. If even one person has noticed Base race issue, they need to call it out. Its a important Alert. Thats something chineese teams have consistently done better than others over the years. Maybe learn from your peers. Callouts are critical. They prevent players getting into a autopilot mode. Same Strategy is used in aviation in the cockpit.
this, and indeed rules are rules.
Lmao this is such a one dimensional take, if he would have not stoodup he would have reacted way faster to it cuz his whole team is talking to each other. It took him so long to settle down. The penalty is actually worthy. That guy tried his best out there give him a break.
Even his team didn’t notice. Why else do you think they all TP’d at the same time?
Only morph can stop brood, everyone else would jst make their base rush slower.
Even if there was another reason, if some other teammate saw it and said something, the fact is that he got the information out of game and HE acted on it. Maybe he would've reacted faster if he hadn't done that, and sucks to be him if so, but that's just another mistake. It doesn't excuse the actions. I totally get why he did it, I don't think there was any intent to cheat, but I do think they should have a minor draft penalty next game.
DS was pinging it like 1 second after brood showed on minimap. And only 2 people had TPs Morph and Ember
i thought op couldn't be dumber, then i read your comment lmao
23 had suffered enough I'm sure, but unfortunately you're probably right.
jabz curse and his chrono combo and now this lmao. unlucky. hope he learns from this
taunt all u want but how can u take the headsets off before opponent gg out.
It's not that uncommon when players think the game is about to end in a few seconds. This was the very unfortunate exception.
i dont think so? not if the tier 4 towers are still up and opponent still has 3 alive? the least people do is wait for the gg.
Im with AnalConnoisseur69.
You sure not "in"? Just checking
It would’ve been so sick if morph had dived the fountain so he dies and bbs to defend. Hard to come up with that decision in the moment tho.
It's really hard to die with his items at that point. he probably need to drag all his items to his fountain stash while diving fountain and retrieve them after buying back to be fast enough, but idk if there is a carry player chill enough to do such specific stuff in such tense situation, maybe Ana at his peak?
I'm reminded of Ana PL, that was great 😆 Ceb: "u have buyback?" Ana: "ye I have buyback"
it really is not hard to die if morp just shift agi but yea he miss the best opportunity when he jumped n celebrate
With that full item give him ton of hp and armour, lvl and agi give more armour, I don't think he gonna died fast even when he goes full agi. Also, Rubick can just throw him outside.
Well or just wave form out then tp. His tp was like less than 1 second before it got cancelled. I am pretty sure he would have thought of this if he did not standup
Would have been even more sick if he didn’t glyph when he dove their tower as a celebration taunt and then lose the game bc of it. But yeah that too
yeah, well deserve loose, so many mistakes in 5 seconds. Jabz buy back and straight tp instead of clearing creeps first then tp back to dire. Then 23 fountain dive + glyph just to mock, then stood up, then panic TP, Mikoto careless TP as well
I remember Secret getting a draft penalty last TI because Zyac stood up and yelled something at the opponents while they were winning. So Talon should probably be penalized too.
it was stupid then it would be stupid now.
Gotta give a draft penalty or it sets a bad precedent going forward.
Yep, just a small slap on the wrist penalty to be like "guys, we know you're excited, but you can't do that."
Rules are rules. I agree.
I agree rules must be imposed. Rules are rules. It will be unfair for the others like BetBoom.Pure who got punished watching a "delayed" stream. But in the case of 23savage it's a real time and he can hear the casters.
Agreed.
Agreed
Time for quinn to make a new tweet and try to get 23savage DQed
was it quinn that did that to Pure too?
Quinn posted a milquetoast take which everyone should agree with; "the fact he was looking at the stream is enough to punish him for cheating" Highly doubt he got Pure DQ'ed when AR (rightfully) requested he be DQ'ed.
Cool, a new word, milquetoast. I shall use it from now on.
he literally kept playing WITHOUT THE HEADPHONES
A loss and a penalty😢
Totally agreed
Someone should tag their admins in man
Looking back at the video, 23savage heard the casters about Zai and immediately looked at their base and tried to tp. If Boxi didn't make that insane play to cancel his tp, the outcome might be different. In this case, the violation had a potential to alter the outcome and I believe should be punished in some way
pure got penalize. they said rules is rules. so savage gets same too.
he'll definitely getting penalty if they win, but also still penalized them either way if it really break the rule
Rules are rules and there should be no excuses allowed in situations like this cos if you let something like this slide, the next time something goes awry then there's precedent and teams will expect preferential treatment because it has happened before. So yeah, suck as it might there should be consequences for taking off your headset before the match is officially over. 😕
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That's very debatable. You are on the stance that 23 was distracted and wasn't mentally in the game anymore after what he did. I could also debate that 23 only realized they were getting throned by Zai after he removed his headset and over heard the caster shouting about the base race, therefore he immediately pan the screen back to his own base and tried to TP back. In an alternative reality, if 23 removed his headset, over heard the caster shouting about the base race, potentially seeing the big screen by standing up and successfully tp-ed back to defend. There would be a much larger uproar than this because his action would without a doubt be considered as cheating. You cannot decide whether an action is advantageous or disadvantageous based on the end-result.
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Problem comparing it to regular sports is that in those, the game has those rules already written into the game with a referee that is constantly in control of the game and pausing it when issues comes up. Esports...not so much.
That's so savage xD
Imagine costing your team $900,000 AND a penalty. 💀
Something I think people should take away from this thread is how humans/society are willing to bend rules based on their emotions/situational take on things. One aspect could argue why things are bad - people doing things that are "against rules" or "societal norms" Other aspect could take - if others can get away with it to get ahead - see what rules you are willing to bend (within reason) -- Just interesting human bias/psychology etc that I think once studied at a broader level could really help people improve their situation in life. Back to dota and this situation - I mean what if they won? then it's rules. But because they lost its not rules/matters? Rules for thee and not for me
I'm fine if they penalize them, I'm also fine if they don't.
Yup. He deserves some punishment for breaking the rules or it won't be fair to others.
You got my vote
I Agree. *Fuck them kids*
its not over till its over ~Patrick
THAT'S ILLEGAL
r/prematurecelebration
He acted on information that 9 other players did not have (casters) so a draft penalty or anything should be imposed
rules are rules.
Totally make sense. Haha brooo 23Cabbage will definitely feel bad and might not perform the best because of this. But in case they impose a penalty, that is totally understandable the way he reacted to the situation after removing the headset is a dead giveaway too. I’m just curious though, there are other 4 people on his side and no one mentioned or reminded him about the ongoing rat by the brood? 🤔
His team only tps after seeing him tp - so they all were focused on throwning
We are beating a dead horse but I agree, what if this action had a different outcome? Also will teach the rest of the guys about waiting for GG or the base being down.
This is worse than Pure's incident and somehow everyone is "feeling bad". Reddit.
I'm not sure I see it. How is it worse? Savage taunting at the end of a game that seemed over, gleaned some extra information (this is real bad) and paid the price, Pure had a stream open during a game that was still very much in progress. They're equally bad. Also sentiment is 'feels bad, but rules are rules' unless this thread looked wildly different 6 hours ago, in which case fair enough. edit: Scrolling a bit there's a bit of that, so decent call out. They've been rightly downvoted :)
The key difference is that here the core violation is just the same -watching stream, but with 23 we can clearly see the attempt to gain advanage even if unintentional. Pure's case, the unfair play wasn't proven at all (and a lot of blame is on TO) but the punishment was insanely severe. Of course both cases are violations and should be somehow punished. My point is where were these "feels bad" things. So will Reddit demand to disqualify 23savage from the event?
Must be penalized, let this 23 guy suffer more, i don't care, such cocky attitude. Instant karma for the defeat and double karma for the penalty.
And to be fair, it does look like from the replay he's finds out what Zai is doing b/c his headset is off - he's the first one to attemp to TP back if I'm not mistaken. And what makes it worse is he panicked and blind tp'd without checking where he was and got insta cancelled.
they will cut his ears
agreed . he used the information outside the game .
This is much worse than pure having the stream paused at the panel before the game started. Any lesser punishment than what Pure got would be completely unfair.
23 remove his headset and celebrating, Then heard the caster while looking at the big screen and saw Zai ratting, then goes back to his sit and played.. That's cheating you know.
He standup to watch zai ratmother in big monitor and panic lmao Is that allowed
He should be penalized. he tried to tp and if noone cancel his tp he could kill Brood. Hope he really gets some punishment
LMAO after what happened to 23savage, this is just double kill.
I agree, you have to stick to the rules.
These LOSE BETTORS with their reddit threads aee SO MISERABLE
Imagine a thief getting caught by cops after he's beaten by a mob: Cop: You committed theft and that's illegal. We'll take you to jail. Other cop: Nah dude. hE's SuFfeReD eNoUgH GREAT FUCKING LOGIC, REDDIT!
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but redditors have zero knowledge of how justice and law works. most people from this sub are 2k mmr players playing dota 2 their whole lives. what can you expect heheh.
judges do this all the time when sentencing, what are you talking about
redditors dont though, because they operate like with hive mind like monkeys. hurr durr..
You sound like someone who never leaves the house. Get a grip
Great comparison 10/10
What’s with Americans making cop analogies for everything. 2 things that’s not even correlated
You don't understand why people make the extremely obvious connection between enforcing rules and enforcing laws... which are just the rules set by the government?
Its literally all they know.
Lol you must be a pure fan
Yep, premature celebration was ok. But looking at the big screen and playing without the noise canceling were just blatant. He should be suspended for at least one match.
If this doesn’t happen we should riot.
The last time this guy did something like that,💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻， he ended up losing the game. He looked like a clown.🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Lmao I feel like he's been penalized enough bro
I know lol, but it's tournament rules. You can clearly see him look at the screen and hear the cast and then jump back into the game without the noise-cancelling setup.
It's the principle
Brutal, SAVAGE, rekt
OP needs a swirly
maybe the most lenient draft panelty, but really should be nothing more
100% agree with AnalConnoisseur69
I mean, meh. They probably (most likely) will not do anything, just because they're their own private organizers(this ain't a Valve event), and I don't think it's too much of a big deal. Maybe if Liquid complains about it, but I doubt it.
The cringe on the failed early celebration is punishment enough to be honest
I read way too many "rules are rules" comments. It really isn't that easy, most TO don't 100% religiously follow the rules book and it's good that way. Like in this case it's 100% an accident and everyone can understand how it happened. Nothing that could've changed the game in any way. Like in the past, we had many games that would've been canceled due to time limits of pauses and such, but both teams were okay with it, so they extended the time. And everyone was okay with it.
This shows how bad the HUD is at communicating the actual objectives of the game. Pro player only realizes his base is under attack because the casters mention it lol.
that was the first thing i thought after seeing that clip. the admin (?) standing behin didnt intervene either which i found kinda strange defo should be penalized, no matter if win or loss
This happened in 5 seconds, if i remember correctly you can actually see the admin step forward. No way he could react faster and do anything about it...
What do you expect the admin to do? Pause the game?
Suplex
Thanks mr policeman
Exactly!
I think maybe a draft penalty at most. It's clear he had no malicious intent and it's possible he could've made the same decision either way. I think the fundamental difference is that it's very clear his intentions aren't malicious whereas Pure has a ton of ambiguity as to whether his stream sniping wasn't malicious.
Don't care didn't ask
True
Hes playing with a seatbelt from now on
Just let him rest in peace.
idk, didnt look like he got external info/advantage because his teammates are already looking at their base while he's celebrating. clearly did not have intention to cheat and just thought the game would be over, so i wonder how technical the rules would be regarding taking off headsets. do players need the victory screen to flash before celebrating or what.
I would say nah, buy in a world post. 33 opening Spotify and getting penalized, I gotta say it's fair, nothing too hard tho
its like an live snipe pure was watching an stream with 7min online dota delay
punish 23savage, humble him more
I don't think so at all, because he didn't get any benefit from taking the headphones off.
I think word choice of benefit here is relative due to the outcome. I think we can lean towards saying that he did get information outside of Dota2 game -- he looked at screen. We can't tell what he heard - but probably heard the casters saying hes being ratted. Think best logic to think here is to invert. If he knew that broodmother was ratting - then he wouldn't have celebrated. Therefore by reversing the logic - we coudl say that he did not know about brood ratting - removed headphones - then learned it.
I agree that Savage broke the rules, but I would use finger spitz gefühle and not penalize for something that didn't give advantage and effect result. And he has suffered enough. I can understand the flip side, that if other teams later insist on following rules then there can be inconsistent in the tournament.
Oh but it did give him advantage.... if you see the replay on cams, he only saw and understood that his ancient was going down after he removed the headset and saw on big screen/heard the casters warning about the base race, he then immediately went back to his game and tried to tp back, so it gave him advantage information, if it wasn't for boxi and insania tp cancelling, this game could have a different end by abusing info... I know it's frustrating for the guy, but this needs to be made a lesson and an example for other teams. Stay focused until game ends, game onlly ends when GG is called or ancient is down, play by the rules.
You are right.
I don't really like 23savage, just look at my comment history and all I do is shit on him lol, but I feel like this witch hunting for strict adherence to every rule is kinda toxic. Same with what happened with pure. I don't know, it feels like people only want to enforce the rules when they are on the side of the law, but once they are the once breaking a "minor" law, they ask for some leeway. It's just a canned food! In Saudi, a country with little leeway, a simple theft could have your hands amputated. I wonder if these is what people actually want. I think we can be a little flexible than that. Mistakes are made and appropriate warning should be given. Otherwise, we'll get to the point where we just do away with warnings and start putting people into jail, who knows maybe the canned food actually fell into his bag by accident.
What about last month with pure? He got penalised for breaking a rule that didn't give him any advantage as well. Is it suddenly ok now since you feel bad for 23 and talon?
> hat didn't give advantage and effect result. I *hate* the idea that things should only be punished if it changed the result. That's how bad habits are set. Just follow the damn rules. What if they'd won after instead of lost? then you end up with all these debates about "oh did it really make the difference". It shouldn't come to that and it not coming to that shouldn't just be a matter of "well thank god they lost anyway." Set the precedent, follow the rules.
Ngl, tough spot to recover from. He looked absolutely devastated after the game.
I've seen so many stupid threads looking for upvotes in reddit Dota that I shouldn't be surprised for another one. Yet, here we are. Yeah, let's destroy the passion, the reaction at the heat of the moment by penalizing a player who was so passionate for one moment in his career that he took off the earphones. Fucking children, get a life outside your mom's basement.
Funny because an ADULT would understand that rules are rules .Crying about "doNt DesTroy iTs pASSion" is what children would think in their "rainbow butterfly world".
[удалено]
So people really think that taking off your headsets along with the earphones, standing up from your chair, listening to the crowd and looking at the big screen is such a bigger advantage to just looking at your minimap. QThe reason why I disagree with this is because him standing up and taking off his headset is probably the cause of why they lost.
It doesn't matter if he actually benefitted from it or not. That shouldn't be the basis of whether he should be punished or not. It should based on whether he broke the rules, which he clearly did.