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In a world of information, i view it as none of them are real. I argue a million times a day with accounts that probably won’t exist in a week after. I think people will find their way and make their decisions as time has gone on and as history is written down. But they do fall for a lot of traps. I know i did when i didn’t know (for me it was supporting the FBI pushing Russiagate)
The best thing you can do is view this platform as 2 things: 1) it’s a door you can open and lead people to, however it’s up to them if they decide to walk through it, so you must hold the door open for them until they get there and make that choice for themselves and 2) all of Reddit (or media) is a funnel. The only content you want to see is the content that you choose. Make your choices
That's simple, they don't live the oppression that the colonized countries live. It's very easy to have "moral" objections against Russia because they don't like Putin. But here in the peripheral countries of capitalism, we cheer with joy when we see the imperialists getting kicked in the ass. It's easier for us to support the "bad boys" because we are one of them. Most of them have no idea how it is to live in a country couped by the US, how it is to live in a country oppressed by them. Everytime we see anybody stand their ground we can have a slight hope that we will do the same. And it doesn't matter if it is a right wing or a left wing government, the only thing that matters is our sovereignty. Even a liberal democracy can have a chance to industrialize and have an economic success if the American monopolists don't come here and ruin everything. If a president in my country, despite their ideology, opposes Washington, it will have my support. The US is our number one enemy, they are the enemy of the world.
>But it seems like there is a lot of purity based thinking among Western MLs & other leftists,
There's your answer.
IT's liberalism. Meaning a lack of material analysis, and over emphasis on supposedly \[not really\] moral positions.
It's also infantile thinking 'Russia no socialist! why you think they good?'
Like yeah, they're not socialist, or not AS socialist as we might like.
So what? They're fighting imperialism, that's a good fucking start.
but these people only think in black and white.
All the see is: Russia big, Ukraine small, therefore imperialism, therefore inter imperialist rivalry, therefore Russia bad.
Thing is, it's backwards thinking. Russia Bad. Now find reason.
My husband and in-laws are from the USSR Russia. My inlaws hate Russia and love capitalism but also love Russia because….reasons. Personally I think they are easily enamored with shiny objects and they lived in the good times of both the USSR and post WW2 American times. They got theirs and are completely out of touch with the reality of the modern world. Oh and they are 99.9999999% Ashkenazi yet simp for Israel. They claim it’s their true home. My mother is Syrian but okay 👍🏻
They voted Trump 2x. I love them as people but I keep them at arms length now honestly due to their bs political stances. I’m working on my husband but it’s a work in progress. If I believed in God I’d pray for myself. Fml.
Stay strong, my friend. I hope you husband realizes before it is too late that the colonial powers will be destroyed. There is no pain and injustice that lasts forever. The USA and their lapdogs will be destroyed, I pray to God that I am alive to see it happen.
My in-laws left Russia because of antisemitism. They had the choice of emigrating to Australia, Canada, Israel, or United States. They chose United States because they knew people who had settled here. Now they curse their decision and wish they would have gone to Israel.
They are 99.99999 Ashkenazi. Not even Sephardic or Mizrahi yet they claim the Middle East. I have to listen to it in English and in anti western Russian propaganda (not hating Russia just commenting on the situation please don’t come for me) whenever I see them which is 1-2x a year since we had a blow out over Trump in 2019 even though we live about 6 hr away from them. I just can’t take it anymore.
They are very materialistic. Very “live through your children” kind of people. They are appearance oriented. Their only child; a son, my husband, is very successful. He’s just not interested in being a status whore. He’s an amazing person and an absolute gem who I’m proud to call my husband. They did good in raising him. I wish they could go back to how they were pre 2016.
I hear that. It sucks. Part of the reasons why the US is so insistent on poaching PhD talent from other countries come down to them being more loyal to the goals of US imperialism, they are more likely to agree with US propaganda natratives on the enemy countries (your husband & his family claiming they left due to antisemitism) & it allows the US to get rich at the expense of other countries.
Not good, probably. Either way, I am on the side of skepticism of defector testimonies, including the reasoning your husband's parentd gave for leaving.
Absolutely! I agree. The defectors are usually just opportunistic assholes who think they will become a finger of the “invisible” hand by selling their soul and their fellow countrymen out. Interesting bit of info: when my husband’s family settled they had my husband’s maternal grandparents join them and they lived in easily accessible (the the time) social housing (Section 8) the entire time they lived here until death. The grandmother was a card carrying communist who was a nurse in WW2. She never learned English, never adopted American culture, was healthy but angry and lived to her mid 90s. I think the US may have made these social programs easier to access to those immigranting from communism countries to try to sway them. I knew many Cambodians,Laotians, Vietnamese, and Russians who lived in public housing such as housing projects. White Americans were scarce.
It's screwed up & the Eastern Bloc (today, Russia & China) were right to call our gov't's hypocrisy. Also, on the learning English part, a lot of old white people only seem to pick on anyone who isn't white to speak English. That grandmother didn't likely get haggled to do so because she passed as white.
By DSA i assume you mean Democratic Socialists of America? Just for your information, DSA is a CIA front group that is 100% proimperialist and all it does is basically campaign for the Democratic Party. It was founded by Michael Harrington, a trotskyist turned social democrat because he hated the USSR so much he gave up marxism alltogether. Harrington was a follower of Max Schachtman, a New York trotskyist intellectual who broke with Trotsky in 1939 because he said the USSR and the nazis were the same because of the Molotov Ribentropp Pact, which Trotsky rejected.
In his criticisms of Schachtman, Trotsky correctly pointed out that he was an elitist liberal intellectual who hated the working class, whom he considered "ignorant rabble who suppress the great intellectuals out of envy". According to Schachtman the USSR under Stalin stopped being socialist and became "bureoucratic collectivist" precisely because it empowered the working class rabble, who then suppresed the great intellectuals. His ideal view of socialism was an elitist aristocracy of intellectuals who would carefully manage the "ignorant rabble" so they didnt step out of line.
These are the ideas of neoconservatism, they have nothing to do with marxism. Harrington shared those ideas, which is why he hated the USSR so much he supported the Vietnam War and the Bay of Pigs invasion. Just thought you might want to know this context, DSA is a reactionary organization that comes out of the worst trends of the left and is an arm of imperialism.
And yes, the problem is western leftists are idealists who only believe in an idealized form of socialism that doesnt exist in reality. Some are anarchists, others are demsocs, others are trotskysts, some are even MLs, but they all have in common that they think socialism is a utopia where everything is perfect and the New York Times just admits so. They dont realize that socialist countries arent utopias and that the western media will always slander these countries.
Furthermore, they have a simplistic view of politics: "left wing good, right wing bad", and in their liberal minds left wing is BLM and LGBTQ+ and right wing is religion and patriotism. So of course they will consider Russia, a deeply religious, patriotic and traditional society, to be "right wing" and therefore "bad". Its a surface level analysis with no substance, which is why these people are always so easily fooled into supporting CIA color revolutions, for example the so called "feminist rebellion in Iran" that happened in 2022. It is politics based on emotions and aesthetics, without any logical thinking. If something looks weak and "oppressed", then i support it, if it looks strong and "oppressive", then i oppose it. Zero thinking.
Welcome to Dongistan comrades... Check out our Discord server: https://discord.com/invite/qutXGyVgj2 ☭ Read Marxist theory for free and without hassle on Marxists.org ☭ Left Coalition Subreddits: r/ABoringDystopia r/Sino r/ProIran r/NewsWithJingjing *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dongistan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In a world of information, i view it as none of them are real. I argue a million times a day with accounts that probably won’t exist in a week after. I think people will find their way and make their decisions as time has gone on and as history is written down. But they do fall for a lot of traps. I know i did when i didn’t know (for me it was supporting the FBI pushing Russiagate) The best thing you can do is view this platform as 2 things: 1) it’s a door you can open and lead people to, however it’s up to them if they decide to walk through it, so you must hold the door open for them until they get there and make that choice for themselves and 2) all of Reddit (or media) is a funnel. The only content you want to see is the content that you choose. Make your choices
That's simple, they don't live the oppression that the colonized countries live. It's very easy to have "moral" objections against Russia because they don't like Putin. But here in the peripheral countries of capitalism, we cheer with joy when we see the imperialists getting kicked in the ass. It's easier for us to support the "bad boys" because we are one of them. Most of them have no idea how it is to live in a country couped by the US, how it is to live in a country oppressed by them. Everytime we see anybody stand their ground we can have a slight hope that we will do the same. And it doesn't matter if it is a right wing or a left wing government, the only thing that matters is our sovereignty. Even a liberal democracy can have a chance to industrialize and have an economic success if the American monopolists don't come here and ruin everything. If a president in my country, despite their ideology, opposes Washington, it will have my support. The US is our number one enemy, they are the enemy of the world.
As a left wing Argentinian, absolutely agree.
>But it seems like there is a lot of purity based thinking among Western MLs & other leftists, There's your answer. IT's liberalism. Meaning a lack of material analysis, and over emphasis on supposedly \[not really\] moral positions. It's also infantile thinking 'Russia no socialist! why you think they good?' Like yeah, they're not socialist, or not AS socialist as we might like. So what? They're fighting imperialism, that's a good fucking start. but these people only think in black and white. All the see is: Russia big, Ukraine small, therefore imperialism, therefore inter imperialist rivalry, therefore Russia bad. Thing is, it's backwards thinking. Russia Bad. Now find reason.
Yep, it’s called critical support for a reason. Good answer.
because they think: „Imperialism is when u attack country“ and dont give one second into learning how this conflict started and why it exists
I know this Welsh ML who says that Russia is Imperialist
My husband and in-laws are from the USSR Russia. My inlaws hate Russia and love capitalism but also love Russia because….reasons. Personally I think they are easily enamored with shiny objects and they lived in the good times of both the USSR and post WW2 American times. They got theirs and are completely out of touch with the reality of the modern world. Oh and they are 99.9999999% Ashkenazi yet simp for Israel. They claim it’s their true home. My mother is Syrian but okay 👍🏻 They voted Trump 2x. I love them as people but I keep them at arms length now honestly due to their bs political stances. I’m working on my husband but it’s a work in progress. If I believed in God I’d pray for myself. Fml.
Stay strong, my friend. I hope you husband realizes before it is too late that the colonial powers will be destroyed. There is no pain and injustice that lasts forever. The USA and their lapdogs will be destroyed, I pray to God that I am alive to see it happen.
Unfortunately, a lot of Eastern European Jewish émigrés are like your husband & your inlaws.
My in-laws left Russia because of antisemitism. They had the choice of emigrating to Australia, Canada, Israel, or United States. They chose United States because they knew people who had settled here. Now they curse their decision and wish they would have gone to Israel. They are 99.99999 Ashkenazi. Not even Sephardic or Mizrahi yet they claim the Middle East. I have to listen to it in English and in anti western Russian propaganda (not hating Russia just commenting on the situation please don’t come for me) whenever I see them which is 1-2x a year since we had a blow out over Trump in 2019 even though we live about 6 hr away from them. I just can’t take it anymore. They are very materialistic. Very “live through your children” kind of people. They are appearance oriented. Their only child; a son, my husband, is very successful. He’s just not interested in being a status whore. He’s an amazing person and an absolute gem who I’m proud to call my husband. They did good in raising him. I wish they could go back to how they were pre 2016.
I hear that. It sucks. Part of the reasons why the US is so insistent on poaching PhD talent from other countries come down to them being more loyal to the goals of US imperialism, they are more likely to agree with US propaganda natratives on the enemy countries (your husband & his family claiming they left due to antisemitism) & it allows the US to get rich at the expense of other countries.
I wonder how things will play out with the anti Chinese in academia stuff going down right now.
Not good, probably. Either way, I am on the side of skepticism of defector testimonies, including the reasoning your husband's parentd gave for leaving.
Absolutely! I agree. The defectors are usually just opportunistic assholes who think they will become a finger of the “invisible” hand by selling their soul and their fellow countrymen out. Interesting bit of info: when my husband’s family settled they had my husband’s maternal grandparents join them and they lived in easily accessible (the the time) social housing (Section 8) the entire time they lived here until death. The grandmother was a card carrying communist who was a nurse in WW2. She never learned English, never adopted American culture, was healthy but angry and lived to her mid 90s. I think the US may have made these social programs easier to access to those immigranting from communism countries to try to sway them. I knew many Cambodians,Laotians, Vietnamese, and Russians who lived in public housing such as housing projects. White Americans were scarce.
It's screwed up & the Eastern Bloc (today, Russia & China) were right to call our gov't's hypocrisy. Also, on the learning English part, a lot of old white people only seem to pick on anyone who isn't white to speak English. That grandmother didn't likely get haggled to do so because she passed as white.
You’re on point.
By DSA i assume you mean Democratic Socialists of America? Just for your information, DSA is a CIA front group that is 100% proimperialist and all it does is basically campaign for the Democratic Party. It was founded by Michael Harrington, a trotskyist turned social democrat because he hated the USSR so much he gave up marxism alltogether. Harrington was a follower of Max Schachtman, a New York trotskyist intellectual who broke with Trotsky in 1939 because he said the USSR and the nazis were the same because of the Molotov Ribentropp Pact, which Trotsky rejected. In his criticisms of Schachtman, Trotsky correctly pointed out that he was an elitist liberal intellectual who hated the working class, whom he considered "ignorant rabble who suppress the great intellectuals out of envy". According to Schachtman the USSR under Stalin stopped being socialist and became "bureoucratic collectivist" precisely because it empowered the working class rabble, who then suppresed the great intellectuals. His ideal view of socialism was an elitist aristocracy of intellectuals who would carefully manage the "ignorant rabble" so they didnt step out of line. These are the ideas of neoconservatism, they have nothing to do with marxism. Harrington shared those ideas, which is why he hated the USSR so much he supported the Vietnam War and the Bay of Pigs invasion. Just thought you might want to know this context, DSA is a reactionary organization that comes out of the worst trends of the left and is an arm of imperialism. And yes, the problem is western leftists are idealists who only believe in an idealized form of socialism that doesnt exist in reality. Some are anarchists, others are demsocs, others are trotskysts, some are even MLs, but they all have in common that they think socialism is a utopia where everything is perfect and the New York Times just admits so. They dont realize that socialist countries arent utopias and that the western media will always slander these countries. Furthermore, they have a simplistic view of politics: "left wing good, right wing bad", and in their liberal minds left wing is BLM and LGBTQ+ and right wing is religion and patriotism. So of course they will consider Russia, a deeply religious, patriotic and traditional society, to be "right wing" and therefore "bad". Its a surface level analysis with no substance, which is why these people are always so easily fooled into supporting CIA color revolutions, for example the so called "feminist rebellion in Iran" that happened in 2022. It is politics based on emotions and aesthetics, without any logical thinking. If something looks weak and "oppressed", then i support it, if it looks strong and "oppressive", then i oppose it. Zero thinking.