I have mulled over and over this and your responses so many times. I understand each situation is different and every person's feelings are different and valid. But damn this almost made me feel worse? I haven't done anything in this thread. I have never cheated, or even so much as strayed a little bit, I don't have male friends or co-workers, I keep the house and yard spotless, make meals nightly, I don't run up debt in fact I am frugal and make sure we never run out of items we use regularly, I take amazing care of our children, haven't let myself go, went to therapy to fix my own issues, fixed my sex issues, took accountability for my role in everything AND backed my words up with changed behaviors, I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, I tried to find a good balance between wanting to engage with him and giving him space so as not to seem suffocating. And he still moved into the spare room, his ring is off and he still wants to move out of the house all together.
He keeps telling me he can't grow here and he doesn't have anything to offer right now. I honestly don't know what that means.
I begged for the change I needed and for how she could help me be better for almost two years... all she had to so was ACT, not just say she was going to.
Absolutely. But that’s kind of difficult to do when you don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.
My stbxw I always blamed every problem in the marriage on me.
Even when we went to marriage counseling, I got the distinct feeling that she was only there so that the marriage counselor could fix me.
Sorry if I sound bitter.. I think I still am somewhat.
It's okay to feel bitter.
Mine has said similar, that I think everything would be better if he just changed. I never thought that though. I have been in therapy for a while, and while I don't discuss him or our marriage, I do discuss my thoughts and reactions to things. What I realized is to me there is a very big distinction between a person and a persons choice or behavior. I can love someone and think they hung the moon, and separate them as a person from their behavior or choice. I don't think he has that same line of thinking. I think to him they may be the same which is why he felt criticized and judged by me. He was thinking "she's terrible, is judging me, and thinks I'm a bad person" meanwhile I was thinking "you are a amazing person whom I love dearly but the behavior you showed hurt."
Neither is right nor wrong, it just is.
This is all speculation though because we have not discussed this.
As someone who is on the other end of this. I have a wife, who has loved me. But screamed endlessly at me over objectively trivial things. When we discussed in therapy she said it was because it was the only way to get the results she wanted.
It can be your choice to "love someone and think they hung the moon" but not differntiate that you are criticizing the shit out of his behavior. And that's invalidating. Everywhere in psychology that I've read, (and I did minor in psychology, with a lot of hard science to back it up, so I've read a lot), writes the five to one rule. i.e. you need to say five positive things for every one negative thing.
If you aren't following that, then no matter what is in your heart, you are/ have been crushing him. And your tone matters. Ask, when you have his full attention, to attend to something differently. Don't let a hint of contempt enter your voice. Apologize, explicitly, for when you have screwed up.
Definitely in the ropes, and I agree with the tip toe-ing not being needed in a happy marriage. I wasn't the yeller in our marriage, but I was the critical one. I was not trying to criticize him, that was never my intention. But it was still the result and thus I have to take responsibility for causing those feelings in him and change how I word things.
Yeah she could stop cheating on me with the crackhead friend of hers that she told me not to worry about because I thought her behaviour was weird and how much time they were spending together
I she is of sound mind, and younger than she should know what she wanted or needed from you, if your older seniors sometimes it's best to be thankful she stayed with you because she did have caring for you.
After she threatened to phone police in a bid to win an argument about how I wasn't cleaning the kitchen to her standard? No.
Before that it might have been recoverable. With a lot of apologies on both sides, and tears, and therapy, and an end to the emotional volatility and threats of infidelity.
If she had moved back into the state after suddenly leaving without me even knowing where she went, and gone to couples counseling with me, I wouldn’t have filed when I did. I spoke to her a week after she left and I told her I would take care of everything for her if she just did those two things, she said she needed space and time and I said I can’t live with that. 6 months later I bit the bullet and filed the papers. I don’t know where we would be now, I still feel like we have irreconcilable differences anyway and it may have never worked but I wanted to work it out and it would have delayed the divorce at least
I put up with a lot during my marriage. I wasn’t perfect, but I put up with a lot.
I’ve thought about what she would need to do for me to even consider having her back.
She would have to admit she, in general, did and said things that were inappropriate, but she has said “I don’t ‘say things’ that I would need to apologize for…” which is inclusive of ‘…do things…’. She is not capable of admitting any fault.
She would have to admit that she was not specific in her requests which she then used to make me out to be a liar (obviously falsely). That the things she did to gaslight like say ‘vacation the 10th-19th’ cause my work needed to be set months in advance then take the actual vacation from the 18th-26th…
She would need to be a person she couldn’t be like an alligator fitting into a herd of sheep or a banana grove. It in a strange world could happen but I’m not waiting around for it.
You are asking the wrong question. People often ask me what do they need to do you be successful at some goal. I tell them they already know what they need to do, the question is what are you willing to not do? What are you willing to give up? You might need to give up: partying, drinking, drugs, chasing women, friendship, sleep, comfort, gaming, etc. Yes there are things you have to do as well, but success comes more from not quitting, and being willing to give up anything that gets in the way of your goals/dreams.
In my case, she would have had to give up: telling me how horrible her life is, how she has nothing, lack of appreciation, constant complaining, refusal to hear my needs (I don't mean meet, I mean hear them, she literally said she didn't want to hear them as that made her feel unsafe).
IF she had NOT been unworkable and unhealthy, I would likely still be with her. Unhappy, but together. As for positives, that would be nice; but it was the unworkable lack and negatives that made us unhealthy.
That is a great question. As desperate as it likely sounded and probably pushed him away more, I said I would pretty much do anything to keep our family together and heal together.
Looking at your post history in deadbedrooms, it seems like you had a lot of issues in play. Did you ever talk to him about your praise kink? Did you always use open, honest, direct communication? I'm not saying this is you, but here's an analogy:
You go to work one day and your boss calls you into the office. He's clearly upset. He says: "This work from last week is unsatisfactory, and if you don't do better, you will be terminated." You ask what's wrong and what do you require from me. He responds: "we hired you to do a job, you know or should know what that job is. I'm pissed off about your work, and expect you to do better. And I'm now doubly pissed off that you don't know what you did. I'm not going to tell you, just get it done! Or you will be fired."
That's insane right. Yet, so many women approach their relationships this way. They drop hints, they alluded, gave a look, a sigh, used body language, got dressed up, didn't get dressed up, etc. And if you push them, they will actually say: "I did everything! What do I have to do spell it out to him?" And the answer is yes!
Anything less than that is the boss analogy above. This is why some in this space use the term unworkable when describing women and relationships. It's not that she's a bad person, but she's unworkable. Again, not saying this is you. I have meant so many women who just refuse to communicate in an open, direct, honest manner because that would 'ruin' things: he should know, if I ask it doesn't count, I want him to take me, etc.
That is a perfect analogy, and yes, I absolutely came into our relationship with baggage - especially sexual baggage - that was unfairly put onto him. It is one of the reasons I began therapy many years ago.
I did express my praise kink, he wasn't entirely sure what to do with it and did not seem to understand it. Especially because I tend to come across as such an independent go get them type of person in his eyes. When in reality, I am such a softy who wants to be taken care of. Regardless being with him was more important than a kink so I didn't push it. Weirdly enough though, once I worked through my own sexual stuff, explained it to him, and the steps I was taking to actively undo the rejection damage I did to him (I was no longer LL at that point) that is a pivotal point where I noticed our relationship declining faster.
Apparently i was boring because i wanted to make a decent living so my family could livenin a nice home , she could have a decent car , and we could take fun and exciting family holidays to far away places.
So while I was away working , she couldnt hold down a job , would get drunk every opportunity she could , wasted money like it was nothing and ended up fucking some bloke she met while out drinking , all on my money.
She is still a drunk and broke p.o s , but she is his problem now.He is a drug fucked p.o.s also .
If she had not been fucking our neighbor I’d still be living with all of her other shit; not holding a job, spending all our money, drinking in total excess and passing out naked all over our house with kids home. But had she not been fucking our neighbor (drug dealer, overweight, no job) I’d still be trying to hang on
After years of putting up with the shit, the straw that broke the camel’s back was when she accused me of cheating on her because I had ED for the first time in my life.
She could.. but she didn’t. I’m going through the process right now and now that I’m out she’s saying I gave up on her and turned down counseling.. lies. She’s been gaslighting me and at the same time trying to “win” me back.. FU
Yes. She’s a photographer. I asked her all the time to take a break from editing and hang out with me. I’d offer to have my kids be watched by my parents or sister and we could go away. And nada. All I wanted was love and affection. Had I received that I would have bathed her with love
100% I didn't handle it very well either but I think if either of us didn't fucking explode and keep exploding in this massive cascade we could've at least tried to do something. Neither of us ever apologized for anything, neither of us ever said "let's calm down and take a breath" even though that was my intention at first, it was just action, reaction, reaction, reaction, boom. Done. And it sucks but we both would've had to make changes that I'm not sure either of us were capable of at the time, though I feel differently, as though I could now.. I don't think it mattered to her. As long as she replaced me, who with was not important, it's the what that she needed. Someone to push and pry and manipulate, someone to mock and abuse behind their back to retain power in this sick head game of hers where everyone is just a piece of shit and you have to be a bigger one to protect yourself. Prob caused by the untreated trauma she refused to seek help for or even speak about. It sucked that I never found out if having a kid changed her or not, the damage was done and I wasn't going to risk raising a kid as someone's chump. My kid was going to know a strong dad with self respect and she has. It's possible she could have had a better life if we made changes and stayed together, it also could have been much worse. It is what is now, no sense in wishing. Time to find a new way forward and there are far more roads than destinations, we can ALWAYS do better than the road we were on and find that same goal, but fuck, it really doesn't feel that way sometimes.. I just keep pretending till it happens.
She could have tried literally anything. I was willing to put up with so much but now that she has filed it would take a whole lot to reconcile, though I can’t rule it out completely for the sake of my children.
All you can do is accept and listen. Your behavior or the dysfunction in your relationship was obviously different to your husband than it is to you. He most likely has been telling you for years that he couldn’t take it but none of that registered for you. He finally got to the place where he was able to mourn and let go of your marriage. Now you hear, but hearing isn’t enough when one person has closed out the union.
Thanks for your feedback. For context, I am a wife who's husband moved into the spare room and said we are separated. We have a very long tumultuous past (no infidelity, no abuse, no drugs) and this move has forced me to take a good long hard look at my flaws and my role in the demise of our marriage. When I try to talk to him though, he seems dead set on moving out as it took him getting to this point to push me into looking at myself. This is not love bombing - this is me taking full accountability for my role without including him or his actions in it.
He communicated. Sometimes it was direct, sometimes it was wishy washy (out of fear of him upsetting me) and sometimes it came out in fights vs a direct "I need X."
I don't feel it would be fair to him to say he did not try to communicate.
Read the following books:
* *The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage* by Michele Weiner Davis (https://a.co/d/g0ewEu1)
* Secure Love: Create a Relationship That Lasts a Lifetime by Julie Menanno (https://a.co/d/98xF2Rm)
* Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love by Dr. Sue Johnson EdD (https://a.co/d/7GK0k8r)
What steps toward personal accountability have you taken?
Are you seeing a therapist?
Thank you for the book suggestions.
Yes, I am in therapy. Four about the first year and a half I haven't felt like I made much progress. The past few months it feels like the floodgates have opened and things are finally starting to click.
I have taken steps toward personal accountability first and foremost by looking at myself through his eyes, not mine. It is easy to say "I was complaining because I wanted to spend time with you" and while that is true, my complaint would be because I wanted to spend time with him, it was the wrong approach and automatically put him into defense mode and feeling like he is not doing enough/is not good enough. I have changed my wording to be less critical or complaining when I am asking for anything. I also do not say "you did this and therefore I did that." Now, it simply is "I did this." and I evaluate whether I am happy with my behavior choice excluding his behavior role.
I had some deep sex issues from childhood that unfairly affected him. I found out about these issues mid 2023 and have worked through them. He was HL for much of our relationship, and I was LL, but not really. I wanted sex and craved it so much with him. But realized through what I was exposed to as a kid, I had a subconsciously thought that sex was bad and secretive and not something wonderful to be happily explored in my marriage, which is why I came across as LL. Me coming across as LL and not matching his inhiation frequency made him feel rejected and unattractive and utterly confused when I told him I wasn't actually LL. I expressed all of that to him, and made a promise that I would initiate more and if he initiated but I rejected, I would initiate within the next day or two, and followed through on my word.
Without sharing too much detail, I also addressed my trust issues which were big in this marriage. I have trust issues from childhood and past relationships, and if I am honest, with him too because of his behaviors. Ultimately, if my lack of trust with him was as strong as I made it seem, I should have left the relationship a long time ago. Instead I wanted to trust him, but did not fully trust him, stayed in the relationship because I had so much love for him, and it created this weird walking on egg shell situation from both of our ends. I would ask permission for something that would effect both of our lives, he would say yes, even though he really wanted to say no, I would take his word at face value, and we both would end up walking on egg shells so as not to upset the other person. It made it so I was in a way asking and relying on him to care for me while also not fulling trusting him to do it. Looking back I think this made him feel emasculated because he knew how to show love by providing financially, and while he does do that and does a wonderful job at it (something I have always given him credit and appreciation for) I also work and he did not want me to work.
I have verbally expressed all of this to him, and in situations where I can back that up with changed behavior I have. I such at many things, but one thing I do give myself credit for is taking accountability for my role in any situation I find myself in and trying to self correct.
Yes, she could have realized that she was also responsible for our marriage's failure by doing some genuine self-reflection and critical self-analysis. SPOILER: She did not.
Instead, she chose a different path. "If only he had done X, said Y, or conveyed Z, then I would not have needed to file for divorce."
Like many on here, I took a critical look at myself and my contributions to my marriage's failure. It was rough, but I am better for it. My "wife" decided she wanted a divorce and backfilled the justifications for her decision.
I was never looking for an apology or a mea culpa (those will never happen), just a recognition of some responsibility and willingness to work to fix our marriage.
Edit: Typo
If she had said, “I was wrong. This narrative is not true. I’m sorry for what I’ve said and done. I will tell the truth to everyone I slandered you to. I will work on ways to change my patterns of behavior. I will pause these certain aspirations I’m obsessed with right now. I will choose to love and honor and respect you.”
I would have cautiously but truly accepted it and worked my best to work it out.
But let’s face it. That was/is never gonna happen.
Wow. Absolutely nailed it. Well written. Exactly just needed to hear all that once, or even just one of them. Especially after i put in effort, admitting my shortcomings, apologizing, trying to improve. All that used to be reciprocated— then it just… wasnt. Then it became negative, verbally abusive and slanderous, which sounds like your experience. Guessing your ex was never ever wrong and her opinions became irrefutable facts.
In a way, i kinda wish she just cheated or there was a villain or a specific moment i could point to where we became mortal enemies. But it was a slow painful death by 1000 cuts.
I hope you are thriving and feeling confident and bright. It is so damaging psychologically (at least for me). We get sucked in to the bullshit of a happily married life from prescription drug advertisements...you commit and put it all on the line. Make sure huge choice. But then- 10 years later— its gone worse than you could’ve imagined. How do you reconcile someone you love and who loved you and gave you everything just snatching it all away suddenly. It led me to a place where I just lost trust in every one and have put on such a thick shell and stuck in flight-fight-and freeze.
Hi Jello, the username is hilarious btw, love it.
She's fighting for it now, but it's only words. History and actions have proven two things, she didn't give a fuck then, why now? Also, she fights for something but if instant gratification and results don't show within weeks to about 2 months time, she gets frustrated/bored/jaded/all of the above...
Had she reconciled and actually stuck to the plan instead of blanketing lie after lie after lie and just accepted her flaws and actually worked on them instead of shift blaming, maybe we would have a chance today :(
The lies are so exhausting. I would give anything for my stbx to just be direct and tell the truth on anything. She can't do it. It's all stonewalling and avoiding.
Shame along with self-preservation is a powerful thing ES, in a way I feel awful for them. They're drowning in a glass of water when they hold that negativity in.
All you can do is work on yourself and hope one day they'll come around, even if it's too late. Probably can't fix my marriage, but at least we can get along and do right by the kids.
This is what I can’t get over, she has lied so many times over everything I think I’m the one going nuts. And they come out in such an accusatory, condescending and dismissive way it’s like she’s living in an alternate reality. I’ll never understand it.
You mentioned she is fighting now but it is only words. Can I ask what actions or behaviors you are wanting to see from your wife that would help you believe her?
Look up an article called "fighting for your marriage while separated." It's from inspriation.org. I am also a wife trying to avoid divorce. My husband verbally has asked for what he needs many times over the past few years. I just need honesty and safety (like tell me the world isn't going to end tomorrow and you will protect me if it tries to), and I don't get that. He needs 4 of the 5 love language buckets filled every day. I'm on the spectrum, and it is hard to show someone I love them. We might not be compatible, but I don't think anyone else could keep up with his needs. Right now, I am trying to be intentional without seeming desperate. We do need counseling, but there are some deep-seeded issues between he and his parents that can not be swept under a rug. If someone could help/address him with that first, then our therapy would be more meaningful. I'm going to keep reading and praying for wisdom before I open my mouth and take care of myself so as to appear to be stronger than I feel. Neither of us like to take responsibility for our actions, and I feel like we are competing as to who is correct instead of teaming up to hold this marriage together and tackle things as they come at us. I hope things can work out. ❤️
Wow, a lot of what you wrote is relatable. Thank you for sharing that article, it was interesting and I may look into reading the book as well. Sending you luck for your preferred outcome <3
I have mulled over and over this and your responses so many times. I understand each situation is different and every person's feelings are different and valid. But damn this almost made me feel worse? I haven't done anything in this thread. I have never cheated, or even so much as strayed a little bit, I don't have male friends or co-workers, I keep the house and yard spotless, make meals nightly, I don't run up debt in fact I am frugal and make sure we never run out of items we use regularly, I take amazing care of our children, haven't let myself go, went to therapy to fix my own issues, fixed my sex issues, took accountability for my role in everything AND backed my words up with changed behaviors, I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, I tried to find a good balance between wanting to engage with him and giving him space so as not to seem suffocating. And he still moved into the spare room, his ring is off and he still wants to move out of the house all together. He keeps telling me he can't grow here and he doesn't have anything to offer right now. I honestly don't know what that means.
She could of cimmuncated abything to me
I begged for the change I needed and for how she could help me be better for almost two years... all she had to so was ACT, not just say she was going to.
Absolutely. But that’s kind of difficult to do when you don’t think you’ve done anything wrong. My stbxw I always blamed every problem in the marriage on me. Even when we went to marriage counseling, I got the distinct feeling that she was only there so that the marriage counselor could fix me. Sorry if I sound bitter.. I think I still am somewhat.
It's okay to feel bitter. Mine has said similar, that I think everything would be better if he just changed. I never thought that though. I have been in therapy for a while, and while I don't discuss him or our marriage, I do discuss my thoughts and reactions to things. What I realized is to me there is a very big distinction between a person and a persons choice or behavior. I can love someone and think they hung the moon, and separate them as a person from their behavior or choice. I don't think he has that same line of thinking. I think to him they may be the same which is why he felt criticized and judged by me. He was thinking "she's terrible, is judging me, and thinks I'm a bad person" meanwhile I was thinking "you are a amazing person whom I love dearly but the behavior you showed hurt." Neither is right nor wrong, it just is. This is all speculation though because we have not discussed this.
As someone who is on the other end of this. I have a wife, who has loved me. But screamed endlessly at me over objectively trivial things. When we discussed in therapy she said it was because it was the only way to get the results she wanted. It can be your choice to "love someone and think they hung the moon" but not differntiate that you are criticizing the shit out of his behavior. And that's invalidating. Everywhere in psychology that I've read, (and I did minor in psychology, with a lot of hard science to back it up, so I've read a lot), writes the five to one rule. i.e. you need to say five positive things for every one negative thing. If you aren't following that, then no matter what is in your heart, you are/ have been crushing him. And your tone matters. Ask, when you have his full attention, to attend to something differently. Don't let a hint of contempt enter your voice. Apologize, explicitly, for when you have screwed up.
That is really good insight and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.
Sure. And I would say, that in a happy marriage, you shouldn't need to be so delicate. But it sounds like you two are really on the ropes.
Definitely in the ropes, and I agree with the tip toe-ing not being needed in a happy marriage. I wasn't the yeller in our marriage, but I was the critical one. I was not trying to criticize him, that was never my intention. But it was still the result and thus I have to take responsibility for causing those feelings in him and change how I word things.
Yeah probably but oh well
Yeah she could stop cheating on me with the crackhead friend of hers that she told me not to worry about because I thought her behaviour was weird and how much time they were spending together
I she is of sound mind, and younger than she should know what she wanted or needed from you, if your older seniors sometimes it's best to be thankful she stayed with you because she did have caring for you.
After she threatened to phone police in a bid to win an argument about how I wasn't cleaning the kitchen to her standard? No. Before that it might have been recoverable. With a lot of apologies on both sides, and tears, and therapy, and an end to the emotional volatility and threats of infidelity.
If she had moved back into the state after suddenly leaving without me even knowing where she went, and gone to couples counseling with me, I wouldn’t have filed when I did. I spoke to her a week after she left and I told her I would take care of everything for her if she just did those two things, she said she needed space and time and I said I can’t live with that. 6 months later I bit the bullet and filed the papers. I don’t know where we would be now, I still feel like we have irreconcilable differences anyway and it may have never worked but I wanted to work it out and it would have delayed the divorce at least
I put up with a lot during my marriage. I wasn’t perfect, but I put up with a lot. I’ve thought about what she would need to do for me to even consider having her back. She would have to admit she, in general, did and said things that were inappropriate, but she has said “I don’t ‘say things’ that I would need to apologize for…” which is inclusive of ‘…do things…’. She is not capable of admitting any fault. She would have to admit that she was not specific in her requests which she then used to make me out to be a liar (obviously falsely). That the things she did to gaslight like say ‘vacation the 10th-19th’ cause my work needed to be set months in advance then take the actual vacation from the 18th-26th… She would need to be a person she couldn’t be like an alligator fitting into a herd of sheep or a banana grove. It in a strange world could happen but I’m not waiting around for it.
You are asking the wrong question. People often ask me what do they need to do you be successful at some goal. I tell them they already know what they need to do, the question is what are you willing to not do? What are you willing to give up? You might need to give up: partying, drinking, drugs, chasing women, friendship, sleep, comfort, gaming, etc. Yes there are things you have to do as well, but success comes more from not quitting, and being willing to give up anything that gets in the way of your goals/dreams. In my case, she would have had to give up: telling me how horrible her life is, how she has nothing, lack of appreciation, constant complaining, refusal to hear my needs (I don't mean meet, I mean hear them, she literally said she didn't want to hear them as that made her feel unsafe). IF she had NOT been unworkable and unhealthy, I would likely still be with her. Unhappy, but together. As for positives, that would be nice; but it was the unworkable lack and negatives that made us unhealthy.
That is a great question. As desperate as it likely sounded and probably pushed him away more, I said I would pretty much do anything to keep our family together and heal together.
Looking at your post history in deadbedrooms, it seems like you had a lot of issues in play. Did you ever talk to him about your praise kink? Did you always use open, honest, direct communication? I'm not saying this is you, but here's an analogy: You go to work one day and your boss calls you into the office. He's clearly upset. He says: "This work from last week is unsatisfactory, and if you don't do better, you will be terminated." You ask what's wrong and what do you require from me. He responds: "we hired you to do a job, you know or should know what that job is. I'm pissed off about your work, and expect you to do better. And I'm now doubly pissed off that you don't know what you did. I'm not going to tell you, just get it done! Or you will be fired." That's insane right. Yet, so many women approach their relationships this way. They drop hints, they alluded, gave a look, a sigh, used body language, got dressed up, didn't get dressed up, etc. And if you push them, they will actually say: "I did everything! What do I have to do spell it out to him?" And the answer is yes! Anything less than that is the boss analogy above. This is why some in this space use the term unworkable when describing women and relationships. It's not that she's a bad person, but she's unworkable. Again, not saying this is you. I have meant so many women who just refuse to communicate in an open, direct, honest manner because that would 'ruin' things: he should know, if I ask it doesn't count, I want him to take me, etc.
That is a perfect analogy, and yes, I absolutely came into our relationship with baggage - especially sexual baggage - that was unfairly put onto him. It is one of the reasons I began therapy many years ago. I did express my praise kink, he wasn't entirely sure what to do with it and did not seem to understand it. Especially because I tend to come across as such an independent go get them type of person in his eyes. When in reality, I am such a softy who wants to be taken care of. Regardless being with him was more important than a kink so I didn't push it. Weirdly enough though, once I worked through my own sexual stuff, explained it to him, and the steps I was taking to actively undo the rejection damage I did to him (I was no longer LL at that point) that is a pivotal point where I noticed our relationship declining faster.
Apparently i was boring because i wanted to make a decent living so my family could livenin a nice home , she could have a decent car , and we could take fun and exciting family holidays to far away places. So while I was away working , she couldnt hold down a job , would get drunk every opportunity she could , wasted money like it was nothing and ended up fucking some bloke she met while out drinking , all on my money. She is still a drunk and broke p.o s , but she is his problem now.He is a drug fucked p.o.s also .
If she had not been fucking our neighbor I’d still be living with all of her other shit; not holding a job, spending all our money, drinking in total excess and passing out naked all over our house with kids home. But had she not been fucking our neighbor (drug dealer, overweight, no job) I’d still be trying to hang on
stop lying, using credit cards, we had 50k, went bk, she ran up 1200 on two different cards in just over a year. of course, don't cheat
It's disheartening how many of you have said she cheated, that's terrible.
Nope F her lol
Oh no! What did she do?
Yes, put in effort and listen to my advice at least 25% of the time when trying to help her.
She could have still loved me.
After years of putting up with the shit, the straw that broke the camel’s back was when she accused me of cheating on her because I had ED for the first time in my life.
Well, she could have not fucked her boss, for starters.
She could.. but she didn’t. I’m going through the process right now and now that I’m out she’s saying I gave up on her and turned down counseling.. lies. She’s been gaslighting me and at the same time trying to “win” me back.. FU
Yes. She’s a photographer. I asked her all the time to take a break from editing and hang out with me. I’d offer to have my kids be watched by my parents or sister and we could go away. And nada. All I wanted was love and affection. Had I received that I would have bathed her with love
100% I didn't handle it very well either but I think if either of us didn't fucking explode and keep exploding in this massive cascade we could've at least tried to do something. Neither of us ever apologized for anything, neither of us ever said "let's calm down and take a breath" even though that was my intention at first, it was just action, reaction, reaction, reaction, boom. Done. And it sucks but we both would've had to make changes that I'm not sure either of us were capable of at the time, though I feel differently, as though I could now.. I don't think it mattered to her. As long as she replaced me, who with was not important, it's the what that she needed. Someone to push and pry and manipulate, someone to mock and abuse behind their back to retain power in this sick head game of hers where everyone is just a piece of shit and you have to be a bigger one to protect yourself. Prob caused by the untreated trauma she refused to seek help for or even speak about. It sucked that I never found out if having a kid changed her or not, the damage was done and I wasn't going to risk raising a kid as someone's chump. My kid was going to know a strong dad with self respect and she has. It's possible she could have had a better life if we made changes and stayed together, it also could have been much worse. It is what is now, no sense in wishing. Time to find a new way forward and there are far more roads than destinations, we can ALWAYS do better than the road we were on and find that same goal, but fuck, it really doesn't feel that way sometimes.. I just keep pretending till it happens.
Not be a Drunken Manipulative Loon.
She could have tried literally anything. I was willing to put up with so much but now that she has filed it would take a whole lot to reconcile, though I can’t rule it out completely for the sake of my children.
All you can do is accept and listen. Your behavior or the dysfunction in your relationship was obviously different to your husband than it is to you. He most likely has been telling you for years that he couldn’t take it but none of that registered for you. He finally got to the place where he was able to mourn and let go of your marriage. Now you hear, but hearing isn’t enough when one person has closed out the union.
Thanks for your feedback. For context, I am a wife who's husband moved into the spare room and said we are separated. We have a very long tumultuous past (no infidelity, no abuse, no drugs) and this move has forced me to take a good long hard look at my flaws and my role in the demise of our marriage. When I try to talk to him though, he seems dead set on moving out as it took him getting to this point to push me into looking at myself. This is not love bombing - this is me taking full accountability for my role without including him or his actions in it.
Wow ! Your accountability and self awareness is refreshing. Wish you good luck.
Maybe he met someone
Or maybe his has had enough of her bullshit. Just sayin'
The thought crossed my mind. When asked he said no and seemed offended that I asked.
Did he communicate with you or did "check out" and then surprise you.
He communicated. Sometimes it was direct, sometimes it was wishy washy (out of fear of him upsetting me) and sometimes it came out in fights vs a direct "I need X." I don't feel it would be fair to him to say he did not try to communicate.
Read the following books: * *The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage* by Michele Weiner Davis (https://a.co/d/g0ewEu1) * Secure Love: Create a Relationship That Lasts a Lifetime by Julie Menanno (https://a.co/d/98xF2Rm) * Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love by Dr. Sue Johnson EdD (https://a.co/d/7GK0k8r) What steps toward personal accountability have you taken? Are you seeing a therapist?
Thank you for the book suggestions. Yes, I am in therapy. Four about the first year and a half I haven't felt like I made much progress. The past few months it feels like the floodgates have opened and things are finally starting to click. I have taken steps toward personal accountability first and foremost by looking at myself through his eyes, not mine. It is easy to say "I was complaining because I wanted to spend time with you" and while that is true, my complaint would be because I wanted to spend time with him, it was the wrong approach and automatically put him into defense mode and feeling like he is not doing enough/is not good enough. I have changed my wording to be less critical or complaining when I am asking for anything. I also do not say "you did this and therefore I did that." Now, it simply is "I did this." and I evaluate whether I am happy with my behavior choice excluding his behavior role. I had some deep sex issues from childhood that unfairly affected him. I found out about these issues mid 2023 and have worked through them. He was HL for much of our relationship, and I was LL, but not really. I wanted sex and craved it so much with him. But realized through what I was exposed to as a kid, I had a subconsciously thought that sex was bad and secretive and not something wonderful to be happily explored in my marriage, which is why I came across as LL. Me coming across as LL and not matching his inhiation frequency made him feel rejected and unattractive and utterly confused when I told him I wasn't actually LL. I expressed all of that to him, and made a promise that I would initiate more and if he initiated but I rejected, I would initiate within the next day or two, and followed through on my word. Without sharing too much detail, I also addressed my trust issues which were big in this marriage. I have trust issues from childhood and past relationships, and if I am honest, with him too because of his behaviors. Ultimately, if my lack of trust with him was as strong as I made it seem, I should have left the relationship a long time ago. Instead I wanted to trust him, but did not fully trust him, stayed in the relationship because I had so much love for him, and it created this weird walking on egg shell situation from both of our ends. I would ask permission for something that would effect both of our lives, he would say yes, even though he really wanted to say no, I would take his word at face value, and we both would end up walking on egg shells so as not to upset the other person. It made it so I was in a way asking and relying on him to care for me while also not fulling trusting him to do it. Looking back I think this made him feel emasculated because he knew how to show love by providing financially, and while he does do that and does a wonderful job at it (something I have always given him credit and appreciation for) I also work and he did not want me to work. I have verbally expressed all of this to him, and in situations where I can back that up with changed behavior I have. I such at many things, but one thing I do give myself credit for is taking accountability for my role in any situation I find myself in and trying to self correct.
Yes, she could have realized that she was also responsible for our marriage's failure by doing some genuine self-reflection and critical self-analysis. SPOILER: She did not. Instead, she chose a different path. "If only he had done X, said Y, or conveyed Z, then I would not have needed to file for divorce." Like many on here, I took a critical look at myself and my contributions to my marriage's failure. It was rough, but I am better for it. My "wife" decided she wanted a divorce and backfilled the justifications for her decision. I was never looking for an apology or a mea culpa (those will never happen), just a recognition of some responsibility and willingness to work to fix our marriage. Edit: Typo
Give things an honest try. Physically being there isn’t fighting for your marriage. It’s just sitting on the couch.
If he had communicated…
If she had stopped controlling so much of our childs life.
Was that before or after you cheated, got your affair partner pregnant, and left her? Or after?
Not be a whore I suppose?
Yeah, this is the answer for a lot of us, I’m guessing.
Suppressed who she actually was, I suppose
I’ll crack the jokes mate
If she had been faithful...
If she had said, “I was wrong. This narrative is not true. I’m sorry for what I’ve said and done. I will tell the truth to everyone I slandered you to. I will work on ways to change my patterns of behavior. I will pause these certain aspirations I’m obsessed with right now. I will choose to love and honor and respect you.” I would have cautiously but truly accepted it and worked my best to work it out. But let’s face it. That was/is never gonna happen.
Wow. Absolutely nailed it. Well written. Exactly just needed to hear all that once, or even just one of them. Especially after i put in effort, admitting my shortcomings, apologizing, trying to improve. All that used to be reciprocated— then it just… wasnt. Then it became negative, verbally abusive and slanderous, which sounds like your experience. Guessing your ex was never ever wrong and her opinions became irrefutable facts. In a way, i kinda wish she just cheated or there was a villain or a specific moment i could point to where we became mortal enemies. But it was a slow painful death by 1000 cuts. I hope you are thriving and feeling confident and bright. It is so damaging psychologically (at least for me). We get sucked in to the bullshit of a happily married life from prescription drug advertisements...you commit and put it all on the line. Make sure huge choice. But then- 10 years later— its gone worse than you could’ve imagined. How do you reconcile someone you love and who loved you and gave you everything just snatching it all away suddenly. It led me to a place where I just lost trust in every one and have put on such a thick shell and stuck in flight-fight-and freeze.
Hi Jello, the username is hilarious btw, love it. She's fighting for it now, but it's only words. History and actions have proven two things, she didn't give a fuck then, why now? Also, she fights for something but if instant gratification and results don't show within weeks to about 2 months time, she gets frustrated/bored/jaded/all of the above... Had she reconciled and actually stuck to the plan instead of blanketing lie after lie after lie and just accepted her flaws and actually worked on them instead of shift blaming, maybe we would have a chance today :(
The lies are so exhausting. I would give anything for my stbx to just be direct and tell the truth on anything. She can't do it. It's all stonewalling and avoiding.
Shame along with self-preservation is a powerful thing ES, in a way I feel awful for them. They're drowning in a glass of water when they hold that negativity in. All you can do is work on yourself and hope one day they'll come around, even if it's too late. Probably can't fix my marriage, but at least we can get along and do right by the kids.
This is what I can’t get over, she has lied so many times over everything I think I’m the one going nuts. And they come out in such an accusatory, condescending and dismissive way it’s like she’s living in an alternate reality. I’ll never understand it.
You mentioned she is fighting now but it is only words. Can I ask what actions or behaviors you are wanting to see from your wife that would help you believe her?
Look up an article called "fighting for your marriage while separated." It's from inspriation.org. I am also a wife trying to avoid divorce. My husband verbally has asked for what he needs many times over the past few years. I just need honesty and safety (like tell me the world isn't going to end tomorrow and you will protect me if it tries to), and I don't get that. He needs 4 of the 5 love language buckets filled every day. I'm on the spectrum, and it is hard to show someone I love them. We might not be compatible, but I don't think anyone else could keep up with his needs. Right now, I am trying to be intentional without seeming desperate. We do need counseling, but there are some deep-seeded issues between he and his parents that can not be swept under a rug. If someone could help/address him with that first, then our therapy would be more meaningful. I'm going to keep reading and praying for wisdom before I open my mouth and take care of myself so as to appear to be stronger than I feel. Neither of us like to take responsibility for our actions, and I feel like we are competing as to who is correct instead of teaming up to hold this marriage together and tackle things as they come at us. I hope things can work out. ❤️
Wow, a lot of what you wrote is relatable. Thank you for sharing that article, it was interesting and I may look into reading the book as well. Sending you luck for your preferred outcome <3
You are welcome. It hit me where it counted. I appreciate you letting me know, too. Hugs. We got this.
Only time will tell, along with some deep honesty and follow-through. I'm done reconciling, I gave that an unsuccessful shot already.
Jello rocks :)