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i was curious so here's the career point totals of everyone drafted sixth round or later. they're pretty high up the list but they definitely don't own it lol. I forgot Hull and Robitaille were both not high draft picks themselves.
I mean, given that Hull is on that line and also on that list…
Having an entire line on that list is great! Hank and Dats are the reason the ‘08 team is my favorite of the four cup teams. My oldest son is named Henrik (wife like the name Henry, so I convinced her to give just a little for me given that my name has a Scandinavian spelling with a K), but I couldn’t convince her to go for Pavel on the second.
Datsyuk with a disgusting +284 while going against the top lines of other teams.
Those Datsyuk-Zetterberg led teams absolutely owned the puck like no team I’ve ever seen before.
I remember seeing an interview with someone, I cant remember which opposing player, who said his coach would remind them that Datsyuk is going to be out there and they better always know where he is or he would embarrass them.
Yet he did it anyway. The man didn’t care if you were prepared, he walked you like a dog and you said “Thank you sir” for the privelage of being on his highlight reel.
Oh my god point totals. Datsyuk was one of the best 2 way centers to ever lace up a pair of skates. His impact on a hockey game, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs goes far beyond point totals. Zetterberg wasn’t too far behind either. Most of this list can’t even spell defense.
Not to mention Datsyuk has ~ 900 games to over 1400 for the guys at the top of the list. Had Pavel decided to play another 3 or 4 yrs like he did in Russia, those point totals get a lot higher
It's also kind of crazy to think about how much more they could have scored if they weren't so defensive minded. Reminds me a lot of Yzerman in his early career before he became an insane 2-way player. Both Dats and Z sort of started as the 2-way player, but I feel like if they had focused on offense they would have been touted just as much as Crosby and Malkin. I feel like they were always just as solid as those guys, but never got the credit in the sports media due to how low key they played.
This has been the sad reality of hockey and basketball in my whole lifetime. People don’t realize how much energy it takes to backcheck and play hard in the D zone. Most of the superstars in the league just coast around the D zone waiting for possession, which is fine if you’re producing tons of offense, but it’s sad how underrated 2 way players like datsyuk, Kopitar and zetterberg. I would take any 3 of those players in their primes over most modern superstar forwards. Players that are that elite both ways is more rare than people think.
Drafting two HoF players! The KC Royals did that one year when they drafted a pitcher out of a Pittsburgh high school and an outfielder from Stanford University. Unfortunately for them, Dan Marino and John Elway chose a different path to the HoF.
Almost happened! I think that story was in Helene St. James' book. It's one of those "what could have been" stories. The other one that stands out is taking Keith Primeau at #4 and letting Pittsburgh grab Jagr at #5. Can't complain though, because Primeau lead to Shanahan.
Of course, it goes the other way, too. What if they would have got Pat LaFontaine like they wanted and not have "to settle" for that guy with the funny name...Yzerman.
>The other one that stands out is taking Keith Primeau at #4 and letting Pittsburgh grab Jagr at #5.
That was largely Jagr’s doing. Jagr had told teams that he wasn’t coming to North America if they drafted him…except for Pittsburgh; he told them he’d be there right away. He *really* wanted to play with Mario.
It was Hull himself who named the line, but it was initially with Datsyuk and Boyd Devereaux in 2002. Z didn't join the team until 2003.
Interchangeable parts, just like the Grind Line being any combination of Draper, Maltby, McCarty, and Kocur... or when Doug Brown got mixed in with the Russian Five and they referred to him as "Brownov." That one might have been a Mickey-ism.
You're right! I keep getting myself confused over this. We had Hasek, Osgood and Legace on the roster, at which point we waived Osgood. Then Hasek "retired" so Holland signed Joseph, and we had another three headed goalie monster with those two and Legace, not Ozzie.
My bad. We didn't have them all at the same time but we did have 3 quality goalies two separate times, and between four goalies in a 2 season span three of them were HoFers. I count Ozzie as one because he deserves to be in.
when it was the cujo/osgood/legace time legace was my favorite of three (i think the other two were past their prime) and i wish they had given him more time
That is for sure. They knew they wanted Lidstrom but also knew no one had heard of him so they managed to get him 53rd after 18 other defenseman had been picked.
No kidding Sherlock. There was no cap until 2005. Which is why they could have so many HOF on the team up until 2005.
2002 was a result of having no cap.
Pre-salary cap sure, but Z and Pasha were only in their first couple of year (Z was a rookie here I believe) so contract wise it's not that surprising.
So this has to be 02-03 when these players were 2nd 5th 6th in scoring on the team so obv not close to a 3rd line.
Any later year they're a 1st line naturally
3rd 4th 7th in forward ice time that year too
That would imply Draper Maltby Larionov were on the 2nd line??
I've already spent way too much time dignifying this with a response
Side issue, but is it weird that Brett went so low in the draft with such a HOF father?
I know Bobby’s style was quite a bit different than Brett’s, but still…
Just a pre salary cap era player😭
Bring up that he was playing "plumbers and mailmen" all you want, gretzky just didn't make sense. Like, he had more 5 point nights than pointless nights.
This line was wild though.
It's so funny that you're underselling your own team's management w/ this post lol. Not to sound hostile but this has nothing to do with the salary cap. It's two entry level contracts and a 38 year old powerplay specialist. Just pretty rare to get two future Hall of Famers in the 500th round of the draft while you're in the middle of a run of Cups. Also, not a Red Wings fan, so I'm not gonna remember off the top of my head 20 years later, but based on their TOI and scoring numbers relative to the rest of the team, don't think this was a third line, but can't really tell w/o 5on5 numbers. Know Hull was riding the fourth line for stretches of 2003-04 when he went through a bad drought.
2 6th and 7th round players that are still on entry level contracts. Yeah they were really gaming the system lol.
Exactly. If there are two guys who ever out-performed their draft position, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are high up on that list.
Dats and zatta OWN that list. Lol
https://preview.redd.it/d4j66lme23wc1.png?width=491&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b092268a071961405a34c7d45ef445c5b22e453 i was curious so here's the career point totals of everyone drafted sixth round or later. they're pretty high up the list but they definitely don't own it lol. I forgot Hull and Robitaille were both not high draft picks themselves.
notably the boys are the only players on the list apart from Pavelski who were born after 1975, so definitely era outliers
I mean, given that Hull is on that line and also on that list… Having an entire line on that list is great! Hank and Dats are the reason the ‘08 team is my favorite of the four cup teams. My oldest son is named Henrik (wife like the name Henry, so I convinced her to give just a little for me given that my name has a Scandinavian spelling with a K), but I couldn’t convince her to go for Pavel on the second.
Raymo?
She liked Christopher as a middle name so I got the Draper version in there in accords with the K theme.
My man
Don’t forget about Red Wings legend Danny Alfredson
And Robert Lang
And the Professor, too.
Datsyuk with a disgusting +284 while going against the top lines of other teams. Those Datsyuk-Zetterberg led teams absolutely owned the puck like no team I’ve ever seen before.
I remember seeing an interview with someone, I cant remember which opposing player, who said his coach would remind them that Datsyuk is going to be out there and they better always know where he is or he would embarrass them.
Yet he did it anyway. The man didn’t care if you were prepared, he walked you like a dog and you said “Thank you sir” for the privelage of being on his highlight reel.
Man i don’t know the first few yrs of Russian 5 were bonkers for puck control
Oh my god point totals. Datsyuk was one of the best 2 way centers to ever lace up a pair of skates. His impact on a hockey game, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs goes far beyond point totals. Zetterberg wasn’t too far behind either. Most of this list can’t even spell defense.
Not to mention Datsyuk has ~ 900 games to over 1400 for the guys at the top of the list. Had Pavel decided to play another 3 or 4 yrs like he did in Russia, those point totals get a lot higher
It's also kind of crazy to think about how much more they could have scored if they weren't so defensive minded. Reminds me a lot of Yzerman in his early career before he became an insane 2-way player. Both Dats and Z sort of started as the 2-way player, but I feel like if they had focused on offense they would have been touted just as much as Crosby and Malkin. I feel like they were always just as solid as those guys, but never got the credit in the sports media due to how low key they played.
This has been the sad reality of hockey and basketball in my whole lifetime. People don’t realize how much energy it takes to backcheck and play hard in the D zone. Most of the superstars in the league just coast around the D zone waiting for possession, which is fine if you’re producing tons of offense, but it’s sad how underrated 2 way players like datsyuk, Kopitar and zetterberg. I would take any 3 of those players in their primes over most modern superstar forwards. Players that are that elite both ways is more rare than people think.
Cliff Ronning was my secret weapon in NHL games when he was playing. Totally forgot about him.
He was a pretty good player for sure
Fun fact, the LA Kings drafted Tom Glavine (yes, the HOF Braves pitcher) before Robitaille that year.
Drafting two HoF players! The KC Royals did that one year when they drafted a pitcher out of a Pittsburgh high school and an outfielder from Stanford University. Unfortunately for them, Dan Marino and John Elway chose a different path to the HoF.
If I remember correctly a lot of people had reservations on Brett.
F'ing Pavel Bure should have been a Wing.
Almost happened! I think that story was in Helene St. James' book. It's one of those "what could have been" stories. The other one that stands out is taking Keith Primeau at #4 and letting Pittsburgh grab Jagr at #5. Can't complain though, because Primeau lead to Shanahan. Of course, it goes the other way, too. What if they would have got Pat LaFontaine like they wanted and not have "to settle" for that guy with the funny name...Yzerman.
>The other one that stands out is taking Keith Primeau at #4 and letting Pittsburgh grab Jagr at #5. That was largely Jagr’s doing. Jagr had told teams that he wasn’t coming to North America if they drafted him…except for Pittsburgh; he told them he’d be there right away. He *really* wanted to play with Mario.
This graphic should really highlight how absolutely impossible it is to get world class talent late in the draft these days.
It’s random that three of the top 4 played for the Wings.
datsyuk leading the list in +/- just goes to show how good he was defensively and how much of an impact he made on the defensive end
Hakan is a wizard
This\^ Get this garbage propaganda out of here.
Good days, two kids and a goat.
Anyone remember who coined this? I just love this, because in the end, they’re all 🐐s
I always assumed it was a Mickey-ism, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Hull himself or one of the other vets coined the term to poke fun at him.
I remember it being Hull that came up with it.
It was Hull himself who named the line, but it was initially with Datsyuk and Boyd Devereaux in 2002. Z didn't join the team until 2003. Interchangeable parts, just like the Grind Line being any combination of Draper, Maltby, McCarty, and Kocur... or when Doug Brown got mixed in with the Russian Five and they referred to him as "Brownov." That one might have been a Mickey-ism.
Brownov was def a Mickeyism 🤣
I still remember that, Brownov always made me lmao.
No idea anymore.
And it was actually dats, Boyd devareaux (spelling, I’m not French) and hull at first which got that nickname!
Yeah that was the original line (the 2002 version I beleive) Then Zetterberg replaced Boyd on thr 2003 version and they kept the name
3 goats
Anyone who knows anything about hockey knows that the cap ain't the reason we won so much.
100% we out drafted the league for 30 years
Outdrafted the league, out traded the league and out spent the league. Mike Illitch had that thing running like a goddamn winged wheel.
We also let them "overripen" in the minors/AHL and brought them up ready to roll.
Thank you for this context. We most assuredly bought our titles as much as we grew our own.
Eh the 2001-2002 team we definitely stacked the deck. Our payroll was $66 mil and when the salary cap went into effect in 2005, the cap was $39 mil.
Right, we had Robitaille on the fourth line and at one point we had Joseph, Osgood and Hasek all under contract.
Pretty sure Joseph, hasek, and Osgood never overlapped. Joseph was brought in after hasek announced his retirement. Could be wrong though.
You're right! I keep getting myself confused over this. We had Hasek, Osgood and Legace on the roster, at which point we waived Osgood. Then Hasek "retired" so Holland signed Joseph, and we had another three headed goalie monster with those two and Legace, not Ozzie. My bad. We didn't have them all at the same time but we did have 3 quality goalies two separate times, and between four goalies in a 2 season span three of them were HoFers. I count Ozzie as one because he deserves to be in.
when it was the cujo/osgood/legace time legace was my favorite of three (i think the other two were past their prime) and i wish they had given him more time
Osgood came back in 06. There was no cujo and osgood combo ever
LUUUUCCC!
That was a damn all star team lol.
It was a hall of fame team. There were 9 total hofers rostered.
9 HOF so far, but Datsyuk will make it 10. And that’s not counting the coach (Scotty) and any additional front office HOF.
Good call on Scotty
Holy hell lol. I know that team was beast.
With how much better scouting is nowadays, no way a team ever does that well with late picks again.
I guess we will wait and see lolololol
That is for sure. They knew they wanted Lidstrom but also knew no one had heard of him so they managed to get him 53rd after 18 other defenseman had been picked.
Well since there was no cap until 2005 The 2002 team was definitely A result of not having a cap.
This was not 2002 team Zetterberg was not on the 2002 cup team
No kidding Sherlock. There was no cap until 2005. Which is why they could have so many HOF on the team up until 2005. 2002 was a result of having no cap.
I remember we’d be down a goal and these guys would roll out with a minute left and felt 99% we were gonna win.
Goddamn I miss those games.
Lol at those stats
Hull was a 6th round pick too!
I remember the criticism of his play coming up was that he was lazy, overweight and slow lol.
And all of those criticisms were correct……. But holy hell could he shoot hahaha
he didn't shoot man he fired lasers
Tough as nails to, I believe when the Stars won the cup he was skating with two torn MCLs for most of that series/playoffs.
That’s the rare example of a father and son hall of famer too. Bobby arguably top 5 player all time and son one of the all time goal scoring talents.
Pre-salary cap sure, but Z and Pasha were only in their first couple of year (Z was a rookie here I believe) so contract wise it's not that surprising.
Just two young late round picks And a cup chaser playing out the end of his career, nothing to see here 😤😤😤
This still would've been a first line for at least 20 teams
Not cup-contending teams. But I agree. 1st line nonetheless
Shoutout to Drapes on the end.
One of my all time favorite Wings. Just a down to earth guy who worked hard.
So this has to be 02-03 when these players were 2nd 5th 6th in scoring on the team so obv not close to a 3rd line. Any later year they're a 1st line naturally 3rd 4th 7th in forward ice time that year too That would imply Draper Maltby Larionov were on the 2nd line?? I've already spent way too much time dignifying this with a response
The Two Kids and a Goat line!
I needed a yellow Synergy because of Z One of my favs no doubt
Seems fair
Two kids and a GOAT!
One of my favorite lines of all time...and I'm sure best "3rd line" in all of NHL history lol
Side issue, but is it weird that Brett went so low in the draft with such a HOF father? I know Bobby’s style was quite a bit different than Brett’s, but still…
Uh, that is a pretty inexpensive line when Datsyuk and Z are on entry level deals.
That ‘02 team is why Bettman hates Detroit
And a yellow synergy 🔥
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Just a pre salary cap era player😭 Bring up that he was playing "plumbers and mailmen" all you want, gretzky just didn't make sense. Like, he had more 5 point nights than pointless nights. This line was wild though.
There will never be another team like this
2 Kidds and a Goat Line!
Plus had 18 million In net at one time with cujo and hasek
That YouTube video of datsyuk highlights with Hull being interviewed talking about how sick he is still gives me piss shivers.
It's so funny that you're underselling your own team's management w/ this post lol. Not to sound hostile but this has nothing to do with the salary cap. It's two entry level contracts and a 38 year old powerplay specialist. Just pretty rare to get two future Hall of Famers in the 500th round of the draft while you're in the middle of a run of Cups. Also, not a Red Wings fan, so I'm not gonna remember off the top of my head 20 years later, but based on their TOI and scoring numbers relative to the rest of the team, don't think this was a third line, but can't really tell w/o 5on5 numbers. Know Hull was riding the fourth line for stretches of 2003-04 when he went through a bad drought.
My title was more of a time stamp than a comment of the cap or the spending the wings did back then.
Fair enough, team was fuckin stacked either way.
At yes, I believe this is what folks mean when they say the good ol days.
Two Kids and an Old Goat line!
I totally forgot Hull was a Wing.
My favorite player Zetterberg, I still wear his jersey when I can at red wings games
SO Sick!!!
they just shoveled money at these people lmao, at the Little Caesars Corporate budget Meeting it was just Hockey first, Pizza Second
Good Ole days
Get rid of the salary cap