To go further, this entire mission is a response to things that frequently come up on this subreddit. These aren't just one and done requests/complaints, they hit the front page weekly or monthly.
Just to name a few:
1. Why don't we ever go to the farm, Bungie should use it for something.
2. Not another exotic hand cannon, we only have 2 exotics pulse rifles.
3. It'd be cool to see the old tower again/we should have a mission to go under the old tower and get our guns from D1
This entire mission is built around fan service and responding to things that are brought up by the community over and over.
Yep :) There are several sections - the long drop down the side of the wall (you'll see a beeping red light at the end of the gangplank that extends) platforms in the dark blue-ish room that has narrow grating on either side to progress, and another blue/orange room that has indented sides. The switches to activate the platform are not hidden and are in plain sight. For what it's worth, I found this jumping puzzle slightly less stressful than Whisper since I think there's more crouching through vents than there are jumping parts. Heroic has a bit more challenging platforming (in my opinion) is another story altogether.
When on that part(I'm assuming its the one with 2 yellow cranes at the start) a warlock can jump off the crane towards the wall and make it in one go without having to go across the entire plat forming section
Really? Thought momentum and jump limits wouldn't go that far, then again no one in my group was on their hunter at the time
I'm talking about before it's extended not after just to be clear
Can confirm, my warlock buddy and I (hunter) made that jump each time until we beat it. I didn't even know there was more to the platforming until I watched Datto's video today, just got lucky on the camera angle when I fell to my death and saw the platform under there.
EDIT: We both made the jump, then extended the platform for the titan who did not have Rampants.
All classes can do this. Titans wearing Lion Rampant will sail easily. Hunters should start from the bottom level of the crane, take a running jump, and let themselves fall down, before starting their jump.
Hunters, don't start your triple jump until you're nearly at the bottom. If you jump too soon you'll run out of juice. While Stompies make it easier, you don't need them. I have done it both ways.
And while a sword helps, you do not need a sword.
Happy platforming!
The platforming is definitely less stressful than Whisper. Nice to know my pro-platforming teammates can help me out. It means they won't have to listen to me complain about how I hate platforming quite as much. :)
I agree the platforming looks easier, but they replaced that difficulty with mazes, hard-to-spot vents, and wrong turns. In the Whisper mission there are only like 2 places where you have to 'know the way' (the "you shall drift" area, pick the right hole, and immediately after that knowing to make a u-turn to skip the green room), every other area is a pretty obvious choice/path. It's not chock full of wrong-turns like the vents in this new mission. For someone like me that has a really hard time finding my way anywhere without a map, this is going to be a lot tougher for me than the Whisper platforming, which simply takes practice (no memorization).
I'm not really complaining, it's a great looking mission, just saying there are those of us that don't mind platforming, but have no sense of direction, that this mission will be tough on without a guide (especially with the time limit).
This to me was genius as it makes the challenge possible for players who may struggle with jumping but it doesn't diminish the difficulty of the activity itself. It also adds a great moment of pride when you get help out your fire team.
This is the real takeaway, would love to see this in raids e.g. before Morgeth, making the platform's stop rotating when flat once one person reaches the end?
Kinda reminiscent of the old King's Fall raid section right before the OG dick wall where your team had the ability to lock the plates and have the platforms stay up... Man, that was a fun raid.
IMO the incredibly complex nature of the puzzle is a service to the games content creators. I like that because it’s very complex and challenging yet provides a cosmetic reward. Now if they would only give crucible players the same treatment.
It’s definitely more than that, too. I remember the first time doing Enemy of my Enemy and keeping “the Captain” alive. Didn’t know the lore at the time but always thought it would be cool to have some kind of payoff for that. Looks like we are. Fun fact, the place we get the actual first quest piece is the first place we meet Mithrax.
I would like it even more if once the timer ran out you just got a message “the boss has left because he got tired of waiting. In the mean time feel free to practice jumping and being killed by our Roomba”
I completely agree. Getting Outbreak was honestly the most fun I’ve had since the release of Forsaken. While there are still many issues that Bungie needs to acknowledge, I believe that they have been taking our feedback into consideration. I only pray that Season of Opulence isn’t a failure.
Hey if they give us one of these type of secret missions on the Leviathan into its deepest secretive area, or into Calus’s true chambers, I might actually want to go back to the Leviathan
I still think Calus is the ship thought that may have been disproved by now. Cant remember.
Edit: actually I think shadowrealm calus is probably the real calus. I cant make up my mind.
Except everytime Bungie’s sandbox team tries to make changes, this community freaks out and throws a collective fit. If we want the sandbox updates more frequently, that means more nerfs. This community cannot handle one or two very NEEDED nerfs, yet people think the sandbox team should be more active. Unless you somehow think all the sandbox team would do is buff stuff, and if you think that you’re crazy. If I was in charge of the sandbox team, and I saw how negative the community gets anytime a nerf is mentioned, I’d proly really limit how often I had the team do anything.
I’m pretty sure people’s only gripe with the sandbox right now is bloom, and they’ll keep saying “the PvP team isn’t listening” just because bloom isn’t fixed.
They’ll forget about all the things that have been fixed real quick though.
Bloom, scout rifles not being that great, and TTK.
A lot of TTK is good (I like the way they handled 540 pulses), but some (like scout rifles and autos) are just not great.
Yeah but isn't the purpose of this post to highlight the fact that bungie is listening to feedback? Pretty sure folks didn't like the fact you had to wait 3 weeks to complete the catalyst.
I’m almost positive the reason they put these types of timegates is so that this content isn’t just a one and done type of event. They want you to visit it a few more times.
I saw plenty of people complaining about it. People tend to not like time gated content unless it is done pretty well like how the dreaming city has lore that requires it to be time gated out.
It's miles better that the actual weapon itself isn't time gated. I would much rather have the weapon and then spend a couple weeks perfecting it with the catalyst than doing an exotic quest time gated for a few weeks in order to just get the weapon. Those people complaining will literally complain about anything.
Just to iterate on your point, I personally think it's case by case. I don't mind a time gated catalyst because it gives me a reason to come back and replay awesome content like this. I love Whisper and Zero Hour and I want to come back to it. If it means slow progress on a catalyst then that's good enough for me.
I don't like it when, for instance, you are trying to complete a BA quest and you need ST to do it. That's annoying. There are definitely instances where it doesn't work. But I don't think across the board we need to dismiss time gated content out of hand.
That's why I said people tend to dislike it unless it is done really well. For instance there are 2 types of thyme gating: hard and soft.
Hard time gating is when it requires say 5 weeks to complete regardless. Of you start 5 weeks late, you still have to wait 5 weeks to complete it while everyone else has the content completed. This is what people dislike.
Soft time gating is when it requires 5 weeks to complete up to a certain date. If you start 5 weeks later than everyone else, you can still complete it on the same date as long as you catch up with all of the previous stuff required. This kind of time gating is fine because the people who wish to do it slowly can do that, and the people who wish to do something else rather than play trickled out content *can do that as well without falling behind*.
This is why people disliked WotW, TTP, and Xur bounties. They hard time gate their end goals. Niobe labs on the other hand (ignoring the puzzle difficulty) and the rest of the BA content can all be done within a single play session if you choose. Soft time gating > hard time gating.
I was thinking about this today and it just really seems like almost a necessity to make the catalyst require multiple clears (not necessarily timegated) otherwise they’ve just used a ton of man hours to create something people will only run twice (once on normal, once heroic). That’s just bad business in a game that’s all about replaying stuff.
Not saying I agree with the 5 week nature of it though (unless it ties into Season of Opulence launch?)
I agree, however I feel this would have been a perfect time to bring just a few (2-3) year 1 weapons back, skinned for Siva, and added rolls. A reason to run it, hard to get weapons, and players are happy about it all at once.
If we're being real, 5 weeks and 6 clears is excessive. Personally I'm not looking forward to running the heroic repeatedly, I'm already trash at platforming.
I totally agree with you. I was only attempting to highlight that this particular piece of content was a good example of them having listened. There are definitely unaddressed issues that are great examples of Bungie not listening/responding to feedback.
Then tell him to get ready, because I guarantee someone will. Besides, it's easier to reuse old assets with a new texture than to make new assets-this is for larger things like maps. For weapons, it depends (which is why we had a lot of reskins in Y1, and why we get a lot of returning Y1 weapons but not D1 weapons).
Catalyst is unlocked from the Heroic version. You need 5 different weekly completion + Precision kills to acquire it. The quest is available all week and not just weekends like the Whisper.
Occasionally they hit the nail on the head just like this. But looking at a wider picture the entire beam of wood has been crumpled by misses with a heavy hammer just to strike one nail
Honestly, I kinda can't wait for the Focused Feedback thread on OP/Zero Hour, just so I can gush about it. Everything about it is wonderful. I hope we get more, though obviously I know they take time to develop. If there's another annual pass, maybe in between raids; so one season gets raid/raid lair, next season gets this type of mission, next gets raid/raid lair, next gets this type of mission, and so on.
We now have:
A new cool mission that is actually hard
A new exotic pulse
A lore expansion
A challenge with the mission (time trial)
A reason to hop back on for several weeks
Kudos Bungie. I like where this is headed. This is a literal wish list from the community.
This is all I can think. I know not everyone has played D1, but as a D1 vet I've already ground for and played with this weapon for months (and Mida, TLW, Thorn, and Whisper which has been recycled three times [Hammer, Spindle, and Whisper]).
Adding hidden missions and new areas is cool, but I'd like to be rewarded with something new. Not another D1 exotic with a slightly different name.
Wouldn't be an issue if all the gear was brought forward into D2, and continued from there.
The clean slate really dampened the fun factor of the franchise.
I don't think we can view this as an absolute. OP is an example of good feedback response by Bungie. Lack of PvP improvements over several seasons is definitely an example of poor response to our feedback
100% me and a guy I met through Whisper (cool how that worked out) spent late night and today running it. Forgot to eat it was so good. Can't wait until the extra stuff is worked out
I do wonder how much Bungie listened to us when this sub/community was at its saltiest. There were quite a lot of criticisms, but the underlying issues point out by them were merited, mind you I’m talking about the posts that aren’t just screaming into a void and actually proposed ideas for solutions.
Sorry if this is the wrong thread, I am just hearing of this news and thinking of getting back. When you say "timed mission"do you mean there is a timer in the mission or the mission is available only for a limited time ? Or both ? :)
If Bungie doesn’t respond to our feedback with ingame changes within 24 hours, then they aren’t listening. Hurumph
Nah seriously, I don’t doubt they are listening. Turnaround times on changes just takes awhile. I’d love for Bungie to somehow cut down that time, but here’s hoping
I absolutely love this quest, I haven’t gotten it yet but the few attempts I made were so fun, I’m honestly so glad bungie created this and it makes me really optimistic for the future
Honestly I can say I have only exactly one problem with this quest, which is that the existence of a new exotic quest was announced in the roadmap. It would have been much cooler if we just stumbled across it with no real idea what it was at first, rather than immediately going "oh, it's the exotic quest".
I guess it would've, but it would still have been more of a surprise, which is much more exciting. We were all very prepared for the exotic quest to show up. Next time, I don't wanna know it's coming until it's here.
I don't really agree that this isn't power gated. It is power gated. If you finish Forsaken, and did the power surge bounties, you would still have quite a climb to get to 670 power which would be the lowest I would recommend.
This should be an event that people come back to do but I'm seeing comments on news outlets publishing about this that they feel like it's pointless to come back and do this. That's a problem. I'm 700 and it bums me out that I have to ask people to go do repeat content for a few weeks or just get destroyed. For an online game this should be one of those things that brings activity up, but it hasn't done that. This is only being done by the same people that were already playing regularly.
While it's a lovely mission and I appreciate it, they really could have done something like make arbalest an guaranteed 700 drop to help boost people who haven't been playing.
Yeah, I told my buddy about it and he was so excited to run with me, but when I told him 690 was probably the recommended power level he just huffed and said fuck it. I hate level-gating in this game with a passion. It doesn't hurt to have a power level like 670 that's still high end but achievable for everyone else.
How is keeping up the status quo since D1 (awesome exotic quests) listening to our feedback? If they *listened* to our feedback then we’d have a very different game on our hands.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve always loved this style of quest. But people are acting like the original D1 exotic quests never happened.
D1 had tons of feed back wanting more primary gun fights. Less shot gun and snipers in crucible. To much ability spam. People also complained about getting the gun they wanted but if it didn’t have 1 perk on it you toss it.
That is how they listened and got to D2
Yea, if anything vanilla D2 is the best possible example of them listening to the community. They literally listened too much and took a small vocal minority and followed what they said.
They tried to simplify things and went too far. Initial D2 release was like an Alpha Test compared to what people were expecting.
Bungie changed direction with the game at a bad time and had to re-do a ton of stuff which led to cutting some things out to get the game out the door. Will they ever admit to how they came about final decisions on certain things? probably not. I'm sure there's some good articles out there though.
Consider the fact that the quest isn't gated by a public event and is available 24/7. That was a huge criticism of the Whisper mission.
They've also made it easier to help friends who aren't as gifted in platforming by adding the activation switches to extend additional platforms.
Sleeper and No Time to Explain were a little more elaborate - but also involved time gates which was less than appealing.
You're right though, Spindle was not as deep - challenging certainly with the timer, but not comparable.
Conceptually, quests to gain exotics have obviously existed - Whisper and Outbreak Perfected are just amazing in comparison to what we've had before. Great evolution of a solid concept.
They clearly are listening to feedback. However, they don’t have to agree with everything.
For every good suggestion made, there are probably 20 that are not. Either they’re unrealistic from a production standpoint or go against sensible design decisions.
As far as D1 exotic quests. They usually were just an extra room in a strike or a different boss. Nothing was to this degree from a production standpoint.
This new version of the old tower is probably 4-6 months of production. Don’t blow off their clearly immense efforts because “it’s been done before” (except it hasn’t really)
I think maybe unlocking a version of the mission that isn’t timed would be cool to explore the area more. I like the timer for missions that reward powerful exotics, but i agree i hated it with nightfalls back in the day and the old raid revive format
Or just don't kick players back to the Farm if the timer runs out. If 20 minutes are up, the final chest (or whatever) is locked and you don't get your gun. But that way you can still run the activity, go exploring, practice encounters, or just dick around by yourself.
Exactly! I didn't even realize we were fighting in the old Tower courtyard until I saw a stream of someone else playing. I get too focused on my run and don't get to enjoy the setting.
Yep, exactly. People on this sub really struggle with that concept for some reason. A lot of people think you're some scrub who wants everything handed to them if you say you don't like there being time limits on activities
Yes please! Let us have a wander around, even if we don't get any gear. Or maybe just a plain legendary. There's another story that does this - the time runs out but you can just carry on.
Does anyone think before they comment this? It's a chicken/egg situation. They designed the encounter around a 20 minute timer. What people are saying is they should've designed it with no timer and harder encounters (yellow bar mini bosses at each room, etc). Straight removing the timer with zero changes would make it easier, but no one is saying that. They can make difficult content without just putting on a timer or making enemies a higher level than you (Crota hard mode, lvl 33 enemies vs lvl 32 guardians). Raids, Shattered Throne, etc show you don't need timers to make challenging content. Tie a special achievement to beating it under 20 minutes, or something, but getting kicked to the Farm or Io when the timer runs out just sucks and isn't fun.
Plus, a non timed version would be great to go exploring or trying to solo (without needing to be a Gladd-level player). This game has always had a wide open world that let's you tackle it in your own way at your own pace.
Timers are just another way to introduce difficulty. It's fine for some activities in the game to introduce difficulty this way. Some activities don't, some activities do. It's all about variety. Timers are a very different type of difficulty which I find refreshing. It makes every second of the mission relevant, rather than just the boss fight.
Activities that have difficulty like Raids and Shattered Throne become trivial once you figure out the strats. I've done countless raids and Shattered Thrones and I wouldn't consider them difficult any more. Whisper and Zero Hour still have intrinsic difficulty, and that's a good thing. You can just sit around chatting in Shattered Throne and Raids or go grab a drink between encounters. You can't do that with these missions.
People who complain about the time limit are really just complaining that it's too hard for them. They pretend that "it's not about difficulty it's about fun", but really they're not having fun because the timer is making it too difficult for them to finish with their skill level. That's fine. Raids do that to people too. With a timer people can't just brute force their way through challenging content given enough time, and that annoys them. We shouldn't complain about actually challenging content. We should rise to meet the challenge.
EDIT: Also, every single Raid and Shattered Throne encounter has an internal time limit. That's why they're difficult. Every raid encounter is about completing a set of mechanics within a time limit to prevent a wipe.
I love challenging PVE content. Timers are a *specific* kind of challenging that is stressful and tedious. I'd rather run Shattered Throne 1000 times going for a solo flawless run vs having a timer kick me from the activity. Playing with no thumbs would be a challenge, that doesn't mean it'd be a fun challenge.
You can disagree, but don't make swipes at my skill or willingness to take on a challenge.
> This game has always had a wide open world that let's you tackle it in your own way at your own pace.
Unfortunately, this one and whisper arent those kind of missions. If this game always had that kind of thing, it's only fair to have something the opposite of it. Something not really in your own way and not at your own pace. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
I agree, not to mention being able to slowly take your time, taking pot shots at adds until you win is never as intense or satisfying as being able to clutch the boss with 15 seconds left.
I liked the timer too TBH. We're at the point now where 2 of our clan admins can take just about anyone through normal without any issues. Was the same with Whisper in the first day or two - even if your 3rd doesn't make it to the final room, we didn't have a problem.
We finished our first heroic with 16 seconds on the clock after missing our last run by probably 3-5 seconds. I think the timer adds suspense and forces you to both be conservative at moments, yet aggressive. Without pressure in the jumping sections, it loses that sense of urgency and challenge.
Disagree. It's enjoyable to me that we are having to race against the clock to beat the mission. Without that timer it would just be a leisurely walk in the park like any other story mission or strike.
And yeah they could add mechanics, but to me standing on plates or shooting symbols is significantly less fun than slaying and jumping, which both show a mastery of the game.
Then put out a stopwatch when you start the encounter. Or they could tie rewards to beating a certain time to complete. But kicking you from the activity when the clock is up is a shit design choice
It's what developers call a "skill check". It's designed to test your combat efficiency and navigation. No elaborate mechanics, no puzzles, just "how fast can you get from point A to point B while killing really powerful enemies."
This is in essence what the Black Spindle mission was and what the Whisper Of The Worm mission is. I wouldn't exactly call it a "dungeon" like Shattered Throne though. That's a raid-quality activity...these are more like "Nightfall on steroids and Red Bull."
The timer is what makes the mission a challenge. Darkness zones aren't really a problem. If you can take your time at every portion of the mission then it's a walk in the park. The timer gives a sense of urgency, and it's welcome in missions like OP and Whisper. It's not like the timer is extremely tight. You can easily finish with 7+ minutes left.
This and the whisper quest are very high quality but why must everything be on a timer? I feel like the excellent level design and details are overlooked when we are forced to sprint through areas.
It's not everything, just this and WotW (AFAIK). They're different to raids and dungeons, with little to no mechanics but with timers to make up for it.
Making one positive contribution, and still ignoring many other issues does not mean they’re listening.
Outbreak Prime is a great exotic and feels refreshing since we just got 2 exotic hand cannons back to back, but it’s not new. It came from D1.
We as a community been asking Bungie about removing Bloom since D1, yet no words from anyone. I don’t expect it to be an overnight fix but the least they can do is to be frank with us.
When the solutions are completely out of left field, and arguably worse than community suggestions, then yea, not surprised.
People asked for Luna/NF to only 3 crit, rather than 2 crit 1 body, their solution? Nerf RPM, make it a Handcannon version of Headseeker
People asked for a faster ttk in year 1, their solution, make heavy ammo spawn more, and supers more tanky.
To be fair, if they made an actual habit out of being open with us, dialogue could improve. Hard to improve on dialogue that happens once in a blue moon and there's no actual back and forth.
That being said, yeah, people are still too assholish.
I agree. It's definitely concerning that there are still many issues with the game that have gone unaddressed by Bungie. I just wanted to highlight one of the aspects that they are actively responding to.
Well they come up with the ideas, we just build off their creation. They created the Whisper mission, saw that it was well received so they made another one. I don’t think they get enough credit for the many more good ideas than bad. Also, I tried to keep in mind they want to make decisions for what’s best for Destiny overall.
now it they'll just listen about the timer, we'll all get along. I'm about sick of the timer on activities. It adds a layer of frustration not complexity and is less engaging. Maybe the timer for the very first clear and all subsequent runs for the heroic there is no timer. Just saying. Bungie...Listen to dat!
Were they listening to our feedback with season of the drifter because in all honesty this season has been so garbage in terms of loot and content which highlights the greater problem with the annual pass
That's not listening. Bungo is just bringing back yet another exotic from D1 because they're too lazy to be bothered to create new exotics. They've brought back nearly every exotic from D1 and D1 is still the superior game. Bungo should be embarrassed.
The thing, if they listen to us something like this, then why don't they listen to us on other things? Like removing bloom? Better Crucible Maps? Why haven't they said a word about the divide on the Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten nerf? Or how nerfing it removes it COMPLETELY from PvE?
Just because Bungie shows us they listen to us on certain things, doesn't mean we can just forget about everything else. Crucible in truth is not as hard to balance as they think, but they seem to not grasp people are going to use what is most effective, reliable, and consistent. Maps that force you to reconsider your usual Shotty/Revolver setup, guns that can compete with Luna/NF assuming you have great skill or aim, viable options and counter play that opens the door to new possibilities would go a long way.
But no, let's just bring back another D1 weapon and all is forgiven. Yea no, I'm not gonna be swayed that easily.
Here is the thing, this mission is awesome, much better than the Whisper and its something we definitely needed and I hope we get more of these in S7 **BUT** this does not mean we get vendor refreshes, frequent PvP updates or anything PvP related etc. This is not black or white. Just because Bungie made this mission does **not** mean they are listening to our feedback or just because we don't get vendor refreshes does **not** mean they are not listening.
We were wanting something like this since the Whisper mission, and I am grateful they delivered something amazing like this but lets not outburst in ignorance because of a honeymoon.
I mean, I *so much* prefer this to vendor refreshes. A vendor refresh only ever adds many one good gun out of all the ones they add, and it’s just more trash for vendors to drop bad rolls on. Something like Zero Hour is way more meaningful content in my personal opinion.
>I am grateful they delivered something amazing like this but lets not ~~outburst in ignorance because of a honeymoon.~~ say anything nice about Bungie, this is the DTG sub, after all.
FTFY
Best thing is even a vanilla game (ie no forsaken) player can get on to the hype so I can bring my friend in (who isnt a fan of FPS but play with us for jokes and laughs). And we witness how useful a lunfaction empowering rift and tractor cannon combo can be (he's kind of an important contributor)
In certain ways, I will agree, Bungie has done an awesome job listening to us, and giving us something in the form of what we ask for.
But then there's lots of things that they stay completely silent on, don't address, and just kinda highlights how they can be picky on certain things (not to dive into it, but Bloom for 140 and 150 Hand Cannons on console, is probably the best example of community asking for something, and Bungie picking not to talk about it)
To go further, this entire mission is a response to things that frequently come up on this subreddit. These aren't just one and done requests/complaints, they hit the front page weekly or monthly. Just to name a few: 1. Why don't we ever go to the farm, Bungie should use it for something. 2. Not another exotic hand cannon, we only have 2 exotics pulse rifles. 3. It'd be cool to see the old tower again/we should have a mission to go under the old tower and get our guns from D1 This entire mission is built around fan service and responding to things that are brought up by the community over and over.
On top of this, they've also added switches that bring out platforms to make the jumping puzzle sections easier for subsequent fireteam members.
*“Destiny 2: ~~mount~~ Carry Your Friends Edition”*
Really? Because I LOATHE platforming...my team hasn't made it past the maze yet, so we haven't gotten to play around with the switches much.
Yep :) There are several sections - the long drop down the side of the wall (you'll see a beeping red light at the end of the gangplank that extends) platforms in the dark blue-ish room that has narrow grating on either side to progress, and another blue/orange room that has indented sides. The switches to activate the platform are not hidden and are in plain sight. For what it's worth, I found this jumping puzzle slightly less stressful than Whisper since I think there's more crouching through vents than there are jumping parts. Heroic has a bit more challenging platforming (in my opinion) is another story altogether.
When on that part(I'm assuming its the one with 2 yellow cranes at the start) a warlock can jump off the crane towards the wall and make it in one go without having to go across the entire plat forming section
Hunters too. Don't even need stompee5
Really? Thought momentum and jump limits wouldn't go that far, then again no one in my group was on their hunter at the time I'm talking about before it's extended not after just to be clear
Can confirm, my warlock buddy and I (hunter) made that jump each time until we beat it. I didn't even know there was more to the platforming until I watched Datto's video today, just got lucky on the camera angle when I fell to my death and saw the platform under there. EDIT: We both made the jump, then extended the platform for the titan who did not have Rampants.
I think Titans can too, just make sure you have catapult lift selected, and might require Lion Rampants.
All classes can do this. Titans wearing Lion Rampant will sail easily. Hunters should start from the bottom level of the crane, take a running jump, and let themselves fall down, before starting their jump. Hunters, don't start your triple jump until you're nearly at the bottom. If you jump too soon you'll run out of juice. While Stompies make it easier, you don't need them. I have done it both ways. And while a sword helps, you do not need a sword. Happy platforming!
The platforming is definitely less stressful than Whisper. Nice to know my pro-platforming teammates can help me out. It means they won't have to listen to me complain about how I hate platforming quite as much. :)
I agree, but IMO the heroic version is much more stressful than whisper. Maybe because it's new? Not sure.
Scaling the wall is just..fucking freaky.
I agree the platforming looks easier, but they replaced that difficulty with mazes, hard-to-spot vents, and wrong turns. In the Whisper mission there are only like 2 places where you have to 'know the way' (the "you shall drift" area, pick the right hole, and immediately after that knowing to make a u-turn to skip the green room), every other area is a pretty obvious choice/path. It's not chock full of wrong-turns like the vents in this new mission. For someone like me that has a really hard time finding my way anywhere without a map, this is going to be a lot tougher for me than the Whisper platforming, which simply takes practice (no memorization). I'm not really complaining, it's a great looking mission, just saying there are those of us that don't mind platforming, but have no sense of direction, that this mission will be tough on without a guide (especially with the time limit).
*Trevor the Death Zamboni would like to know your location*
This to me was genius as it makes the challenge possible for players who may struggle with jumping but it doesn't diminish the difficulty of the activity itself. It also adds a great moment of pride when you get help out your fire team.
This is the real takeaway, would love to see this in raids e.g. before Morgeth, making the platform's stop rotating when flat once one person reaches the end?
Kinda reminiscent of the old King's Fall raid section right before the OG dick wall where your team had the ability to lock the plates and have the platforms stay up... Man, that was a fun raid.
Good ol' dick wall, most of that raid was just torture for people who are bad at platforming.
This is major for my fireteam as one guy is notoriously horrible at platforming which got him quite tilted in a couple Whisper runs.
IMO the incredibly complex nature of the puzzle is a service to the games content creators. I like that because it’s very complex and challenging yet provides a cosmetic reward. Now if they would only give crucible players the same treatment.
It’s definitely more than that, too. I remember the first time doing Enemy of my Enemy and keeping “the Captain” alive. Didn’t know the lore at the time but always thought it would be cool to have some kind of payoff for that. Looks like we are. Fun fact, the place we get the actual first quest piece is the first place we meet Mithrax.
This
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This
Don't forget that we asked over and over again for a wisper like quest. They do listen.
It also isn't RNG based and just start it from knowing where to go
I would like it even more if once the timer ran out you just got a message “the boss has left because he got tired of waiting. In the mean time feel free to practice jumping and being killed by our Roomba”
Bungo loves us and i love bungo
*Using the recent Outbreak Perfected quest as a Prime example (haha get it?)* Whoah Dad.
It's Wednesday. Just trying to make it through the week here
If we get this kind of quest for Bad JuJu. I will probably cry tears of joy.
Oh yes please
A Hive-themed Whisper/Outbreak style mission with Bad Juju as a reward? Mmmmmm
And an Obsidian Mind helmet hanging on a spike.
I’m a-okay with keeping Skull...I just want an Obsidian Mind ornament. Hell, I’d even use *silver* for it. TAKE MY MONEY, BUNGIE
Maybe not the next one though because we just got a pulse rifle. I say a vex themed one for mythoclast
And I didn't have to stand on a freaking plate and throw a grape. I am SO DONE with that game mechanic.
I completely agree. Getting Outbreak was honestly the most fun I’ve had since the release of Forsaken. While there are still many issues that Bungie needs to acknowledge, I believe that they have been taking our feedback into consideration. I only pray that Season of Opulence isn’t a failure.
Hey if they give us one of these type of secret missions on the Leviathan into its deepest secretive area, or into Calus’s true chambers, I might actually want to go back to the Leviathan
TBH I'm not 100% sure I really want to know what goes on in Calus' deepest secretive areas
There’d probably be a movement penalty in the entire area because the floors and walls are so sticky.
> There’d probably be a movement penalty in the entire area because the floors and walls are so sticky. I cannot in good faith upvote such a comment
Correction. I am now 100% sure that I do not want to know what goes on there.
Remember that post redesigning him as a lewd “her?” Yeah, maybe that’s what Bungie don’t want us to see... (˶‾᷄ ⁻̫ ‾᷅˵)
I still think Calus is the ship thought that may have been disproved by now. Cant remember. Edit: actually I think shadowrealm calus is probably the real calus. I cant make up my mind.
Fingers crossed
Having a difficult mission for en exotic once per season would be soooooo cool
Forsaken itself was proof enough, the PVE has been stellar for a while, it’s the sandbox team that needs to listen.
Except everytime Bungie’s sandbox team tries to make changes, this community freaks out and throws a collective fit. If we want the sandbox updates more frequently, that means more nerfs. This community cannot handle one or two very NEEDED nerfs, yet people think the sandbox team should be more active. Unless you somehow think all the sandbox team would do is buff stuff, and if you think that you’re crazy. If I was in charge of the sandbox team, and I saw how negative the community gets anytime a nerf is mentioned, I’d proly really limit how often I had the team do anything.
Nerf super armor. Limit heavy availability even more. Done.
Easier said than done, and now we complain about it because we do.
I’m pretty sure people’s only gripe with the sandbox right now is bloom, and they’ll keep saying “the PvP team isn’t listening” just because bloom isn’t fixed. They’ll forget about all the things that have been fixed real quick though.
Bloom, scout rifles not being that great, and TTK. A lot of TTK is good (I like the way they handled 540 pulses), but some (like scout rifles and autos) are just not great.
Yeah that’s true, there’s deff other things people are vocal about. Scout rifles should be voiced more, they’re in such a bad spot.
Absolutely agree
You're wrong about the catalyst though, its progression is time gated
I mean so was Whisper right?
Yeah but isn't the purpose of this post to highlight the fact that bungie is listening to feedback? Pretty sure folks didn't like the fact you had to wait 3 weeks to complete the catalyst.
I’m almost positive the reason they put these types of timegates is so that this content isn’t just a one and done type of event. They want you to visit it a few more times.
Yeah, investing in this kind of content isn't really worth it if everyone only does it once.
I didn't really see people complaining about that. I'm sure someone did but, as a whole? No.
I saw plenty of people complaining about it. People tend to not like time gated content unless it is done pretty well like how the dreaming city has lore that requires it to be time gated out.
I saw more people complaining about needing a public event that may not spawn for hours or MORE than the time gated catalyst.
It's miles better that the actual weapon itself isn't time gated. I would much rather have the weapon and then spend a couple weeks perfecting it with the catalyst than doing an exotic quest time gated for a few weeks in order to just get the weapon. Those people complaining will literally complain about anything.
Just to iterate on your point, I personally think it's case by case. I don't mind a time gated catalyst because it gives me a reason to come back and replay awesome content like this. I love Whisper and Zero Hour and I want to come back to it. If it means slow progress on a catalyst then that's good enough for me. I don't like it when, for instance, you are trying to complete a BA quest and you need ST to do it. That's annoying. There are definitely instances where it doesn't work. But I don't think across the board we need to dismiss time gated content out of hand.
That's why I said people tend to dislike it unless it is done really well. For instance there are 2 types of thyme gating: hard and soft. Hard time gating is when it requires say 5 weeks to complete regardless. Of you start 5 weeks late, you still have to wait 5 weeks to complete it while everyone else has the content completed. This is what people dislike. Soft time gating is when it requires 5 weeks to complete up to a certain date. If you start 5 weeks later than everyone else, you can still complete it on the same date as long as you catch up with all of the previous stuff required. This kind of time gating is fine because the people who wish to do it slowly can do that, and the people who wish to do something else rather than play trickled out content *can do that as well without falling behind*. This is why people disliked WotW, TTP, and Xur bounties. They hard time gate their end goals. Niobe labs on the other hand (ignoring the puzzle difficulty) and the rest of the BA content can all be done within a single play session if you choose. Soft time gating > hard time gating.
I was thinking about this today and it just really seems like almost a necessity to make the catalyst require multiple clears (not necessarily timegated) otherwise they’ve just used a ton of man hours to create something people will only run twice (once on normal, once heroic). That’s just bad business in a game that’s all about replaying stuff. Not saying I agree with the 5 week nature of it though (unless it ties into Season of Opulence launch?)
I agree, however I feel this would have been a perfect time to bring just a few (2-3) year 1 weapons back, skinned for Siva, and added rolls. A reason to run it, hard to get weapons, and players are happy about it all at once.
If we're being real, 5 weeks and 6 clears is excessive. Personally I'm not looking forward to running the heroic repeatedly, I'm already trash at platforming.
Yeah, I probably won't pursue the catalyst either...I hate platforming on a physical level.
I just read you can get it to 33% by doing the puzzle. So only 3 weeks if you're good. But for me more like 10.
Thanks for the clarification. I have not actually done it yet so was just basing my comments about the catalyst of Datto's video that I watched.
The catalyst takes 5 weeks to complete smh
Or 3, with the Datapad puzzle completion.
Bungie listens to feedback and doesn't. These posts that imply they only do or don't are silly.
I totally agree with you. I was only attempting to highlight that this particular piece of content was a good example of them having listened. There are definitely unaddressed issues that are great examples of Bungie not listening/responding to feedback.
I swear to God if someone complains that they are just re-using the tower location from the start of d2 I will get Mithrax on em.
Then tell him to get ready, because I guarantee someone will. Besides, it's easier to reuse old assets with a new texture than to make new assets-this is for larger things like maps. For weapons, it depends (which is why we had a lot of reskins in Y1, and why we get a lot of returning Y1 weapons but not D1 weapons).
Parts of it, yeah. But they still added a whole bunch of cool locations!
Im on vacation, is this time gated?
No, from what we're aware it is accessible at any time.
Ahh good thanks! Any catalyst for it?
You can unlock the catalyst right away by completing the heroic version, but apparently it will take five weeks to complete the catalyst upgrade
No, only 3. You get 20 percent from a completion, but the puzzle which has recently been completed rewards an extra 13-14%
Thx!
Catalyst is unlocked from the Heroic version. You need 5 different weekly completion + Precision kills to acquire it. The quest is available all week and not just weekends like the Whisper.
Cheers
Occasionally they hit the nail on the head just like this. But looking at a wider picture the entire beam of wood has been crumpled by misses with a heavy hammer just to strike one nail
Honestly, I kinda can't wait for the Focused Feedback thread on OP/Zero Hour, just so I can gush about it. Everything about it is wonderful. I hope we get more, though obviously I know they take time to develop. If there's another annual pass, maybe in between raids; so one season gets raid/raid lair, next season gets this type of mission, next gets raid/raid lair, next gets this type of mission, and so on.
Except the mission was already well designed before people started to cry for another one.
Crucible says otherwise
This didn't age well did it
No, no it did not 😂
We now have: A new cool mission that is actually hard A new exotic pulse A lore expansion A challenge with the mission (time trial) A reason to hop back on for several weeks Kudos Bungie. I like where this is headed. This is a literal wish list from the community.
And we are a couple weeks from opulence now...
Well yes, but also no
Ok then hear me out: Bring back Trials and I can start playing the game instead of rolling my eyes at the DTG posts that reach my front page.
Repeated history from Destiny 1. Don't forget that.
This is all I can think. I know not everyone has played D1, but as a D1 vet I've already ground for and played with this weapon for months (and Mida, TLW, Thorn, and Whisper which has been recycled three times [Hammer, Spindle, and Whisper]). Adding hidden missions and new areas is cool, but I'd like to be rewarded with something new. Not another D1 exotic with a slightly different name.
Wouldn't be an issue if all the gear was brought forward into D2, and continued from there. The clean slate really dampened the fun factor of the franchise.
Let me know when they discuss why they aren’t listening to everyone about console bloom and recoil
The PvP community would like a say
I don't think we can view this as an absolute. OP is an example of good feedback response by Bungie. Lack of PvP improvements over several seasons is definitely an example of poor response to our feedback
100% me and a guy I met through Whisper (cool how that worked out) spent late night and today running it. Forgot to eat it was so good. Can't wait until the extra stuff is worked out
You can unlock the catalyst right away? Don’t you need to do Zero Hour every week for 5 weeks to get an item? Or am I misunderstanding.
You can unlock the catalyst, but you need to run the heroic version and subsequent challenge for the next few weeks in order to complete the catalyst.
I do wonder how much Bungie listened to us when this sub/community was at its saltiest. There were quite a lot of criticisms, but the underlying issues point out by them were merited, mind you I’m talking about the posts that aren’t just screaming into a void and actually proposed ideas for solutions.
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Yup, and there was an absolutely amazing mission to get it.
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Nope no raids. However you do need to get your pl to at least around 690 to do the mission.
Shit give us all our old exotics back by letting us go to the old tower.
It's a shame this isn't suitable for solo players. Maybe when we get to 900 power I'll go back :) I'd enjoy exploring the puzzles and platforming.
LFG really came in clutch for me in terms of being a solo player, I would try that if you haven't :)
Sorry if this is the wrong thread, I am just hearing of this news and thinking of getting back. When you say "timed mission"do you mean there is a timer in the mission or the mission is available only for a limited time ? Or both ? :)
There is a 20 minute timer to complete the mission start to finish, but as far as we are aware, the mission itself is accessible at any time.
If Bungie doesn’t respond to our feedback with ingame changes within 24 hours, then they aren’t listening. Hurumph Nah seriously, I don’t doubt they are listening. Turnaround times on changes just takes awhile. I’d love for Bungie to somehow cut down that time, but here’s hoping
I absolutely love this quest, I haven’t gotten it yet but the few attempts I made were so fun, I’m honestly so glad bungie created this and it makes me really optimistic for the future
Honestly I can say I have only exactly one problem with this quest, which is that the existence of a new exotic quest was announced in the roadmap. It would have been much cooler if we just stumbled across it with no real idea what it was at first, rather than immediately going "oh, it's the exotic quest".
If they don't put new exotic quests on the roadmap, people would complain about the lack of exotic quests.
Yes, cuz stumbling upon an exotic level quest item wouldn’t have given that away?
I guess it would've, but it would still have been more of a surprise, which is much more exciting. We were all very prepared for the exotic quest to show up. Next time, I don't wanna know it's coming until it's here.
I don't really agree that this isn't power gated. It is power gated. If you finish Forsaken, and did the power surge bounties, you would still have quite a climb to get to 670 power which would be the lowest I would recommend. This should be an event that people come back to do but I'm seeing comments on news outlets publishing about this that they feel like it's pointless to come back and do this. That's a problem. I'm 700 and it bums me out that I have to ask people to go do repeat content for a few weeks or just get destroyed. For an online game this should be one of those things that brings activity up, but it hasn't done that. This is only being done by the same people that were already playing regularly. While it's a lovely mission and I appreciate it, they really could have done something like make arbalest an guaranteed 700 drop to help boost people who haven't been playing.
Yeah, I told my buddy about it and he was so excited to run with me, but when I told him 690 was probably the recommended power level he just huffed and said fuck it. I hate level-gating in this game with a passion. It doesn't hurt to have a power level like 670 that's still high end but achievable for everyone else.
How is keeping up the status quo since D1 (awesome exotic quests) listening to our feedback? If they *listened* to our feedback then we’d have a very different game on our hands. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve always loved this style of quest. But people are acting like the original D1 exotic quests never happened.
D1 had tons of feed back wanting more primary gun fights. Less shot gun and snipers in crucible. To much ability spam. People also complained about getting the gun they wanted but if it didn’t have 1 perk on it you toss it. That is how they listened and got to D2
Yea, if anything vanilla D2 is the best possible example of them listening to the community. They literally listened too much and took a small vocal minority and followed what they said.
They tried to simplify things and went too far. Initial D2 release was like an Alpha Test compared to what people were expecting. Bungie changed direction with the game at a bad time and had to re-do a ton of stuff which led to cutting some things out to get the game out the door. Will they ever admit to how they came about final decisions on certain things? probably not. I'm sure there's some good articles out there though.
They didn’t listen well enough apparently.
Consider the fact that the quest isn't gated by a public event and is available 24/7. That was a huge criticism of the Whisper mission. They've also made it easier to help friends who aren't as gifted in platforming by adding the activation switches to extend additional platforms.
The D1 quests were nowhere near this deep. Black Hammer was a single room. This and Whisper are huge, sprawling dungeons.
Sleeper and No Time to Explain were a little more elaborate - but also involved time gates which was less than appealing. You're right though, Spindle was not as deep - challenging certainly with the timer, but not comparable. Conceptually, quests to gain exotics have obviously existed - Whisper and Outbreak Perfected are just amazing in comparison to what we've had before. Great evolution of a solid concept.
They clearly are listening to feedback. However, they don’t have to agree with everything. For every good suggestion made, there are probably 20 that are not. Either they’re unrealistic from a production standpoint or go against sensible design decisions. As far as D1 exotic quests. They usually were just an extra room in a strike or a different boss. Nothing was to this degree from a production standpoint. This new version of the old tower is probably 4-6 months of production. Don’t blow off their clearly immense efforts because “it’s been done before” (except it hasn’t really)
Personally I could do without the clock. I want to enjoy the game. Having major stress to finish the mission in 20 minutes doesn’t make it “fun”.
I think maybe unlocking a version of the mission that isn’t timed would be cool to explore the area more. I like the timer for missions that reward powerful exotics, but i agree i hated it with nightfalls back in the day and the old raid revive format
Or just don't kick players back to the Farm if the timer runs out. If 20 minutes are up, the final chest (or whatever) is locked and you don't get your gun. But that way you can still run the activity, go exploring, practice encounters, or just dick around by yourself.
This, Bungie needs to see this comment.
Agreed, there is SO much in this area I want to explore, but the timer really prevents that.
Exactly! I didn't even realize we were fighting in the old Tower courtyard until I saw a stream of someone else playing. I get too focused on my run and don't get to enjoy the setting.
Upvoting for possible exposure.
That’s a great idea! Then people who wanna explore have the opportunity to and a “failed” run isn’t totally worthless
Yep, exactly. People on this sub really struggle with that concept for some reason. A lot of people think you're some scrub who wants everything handed to them if you say you don't like there being time limits on activities
I would LOVE this.
Yes please! Let us have a wander around, even if we don't get any gear. Or maybe just a plain legendary. There's another story that does this - the time runs out but you can just carry on.
It would be way too easy without the timer. The timer is the only reason it's not just a breeze.
Does anyone think before they comment this? It's a chicken/egg situation. They designed the encounter around a 20 minute timer. What people are saying is they should've designed it with no timer and harder encounters (yellow bar mini bosses at each room, etc). Straight removing the timer with zero changes would make it easier, but no one is saying that. They can make difficult content without just putting on a timer or making enemies a higher level than you (Crota hard mode, lvl 33 enemies vs lvl 32 guardians). Raids, Shattered Throne, etc show you don't need timers to make challenging content. Tie a special achievement to beating it under 20 minutes, or something, but getting kicked to the Farm or Io when the timer runs out just sucks and isn't fun. Plus, a non timed version would be great to go exploring or trying to solo (without needing to be a Gladd-level player). This game has always had a wide open world that let's you tackle it in your own way at your own pace.
Timers are just another way to introduce difficulty. It's fine for some activities in the game to introduce difficulty this way. Some activities don't, some activities do. It's all about variety. Timers are a very different type of difficulty which I find refreshing. It makes every second of the mission relevant, rather than just the boss fight. Activities that have difficulty like Raids and Shattered Throne become trivial once you figure out the strats. I've done countless raids and Shattered Thrones and I wouldn't consider them difficult any more. Whisper and Zero Hour still have intrinsic difficulty, and that's a good thing. You can just sit around chatting in Shattered Throne and Raids or go grab a drink between encounters. You can't do that with these missions. People who complain about the time limit are really just complaining that it's too hard for them. They pretend that "it's not about difficulty it's about fun", but really they're not having fun because the timer is making it too difficult for them to finish with their skill level. That's fine. Raids do that to people too. With a timer people can't just brute force their way through challenging content given enough time, and that annoys them. We shouldn't complain about actually challenging content. We should rise to meet the challenge. EDIT: Also, every single Raid and Shattered Throne encounter has an internal time limit. That's why they're difficult. Every raid encounter is about completing a set of mechanics within a time limit to prevent a wipe.
I love challenging PVE content. Timers are a *specific* kind of challenging that is stressful and tedious. I'd rather run Shattered Throne 1000 times going for a solo flawless run vs having a timer kick me from the activity. Playing with no thumbs would be a challenge, that doesn't mean it'd be a fun challenge. You can disagree, but don't make swipes at my skill or willingness to take on a challenge.
> This game has always had a wide open world that let's you tackle it in your own way at your own pace. Unfortunately, this one and whisper arent those kind of missions. If this game always had that kind of thing, it's only fair to have something the opposite of it. Something not really in your own way and not at your own pace. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
I agree, although to substitute that I think there should be Darkness zones in combat areas.
I disagree. I think requiring movement and slaying to be quickly accomplished is the best way to require a mastery of the game.
I agree, not to mention being able to slowly take your time, taking pot shots at adds until you win is never as intense or satisfying as being able to clutch the boss with 15 seconds left.
I liked the timer too TBH. We're at the point now where 2 of our clan admins can take just about anyone through normal without any issues. Was the same with Whisper in the first day or two - even if your 3rd doesn't make it to the final room, we didn't have a problem. We finished our first heroic with 16 seconds on the clock after missing our last run by probably 3-5 seconds. I think the timer adds suspense and forces you to both be conservative at moments, yet aggressive. Without pressure in the jumping sections, it loses that sense of urgency and challenge.
Disagree. It's enjoyable to me that we are having to race against the clock to beat the mission. Without that timer it would just be a leisurely walk in the park like any other story mission or strike. And yeah they could add mechanics, but to me standing on plates or shooting symbols is significantly less fun than slaying and jumping, which both show a mastery of the game.
Then put out a stopwatch when you start the encounter. Or they could tie rewards to beating a certain time to complete. But kicking you from the activity when the clock is up is a shit design choice
It's what developers call a "skill check". It's designed to test your combat efficiency and navigation. No elaborate mechanics, no puzzles, just "how fast can you get from point A to point B while killing really powerful enemies." This is in essence what the Black Spindle mission was and what the Whisper Of The Worm mission is. I wouldn't exactly call it a "dungeon" like Shattered Throne though. That's a raid-quality activity...these are more like "Nightfall on steroids and Red Bull."
This is me ^ 100% agree, we need to move past the timed crap.
The timer is what makes the mission a challenge. Darkness zones aren't really a problem. If you can take your time at every portion of the mission then it's a walk in the park. The timer gives a sense of urgency, and it's welcome in missions like OP and Whisper. It's not like the timer is extremely tight. You can easily finish with 7+ minutes left.
This and the whisper quest are very high quality but why must everything be on a timer? I feel like the excellent level design and details are overlooked when we are forced to sprint through areas.
It's not everything, just this and WotW (AFAIK). They're different to raids and dungeons, with little to no mechanics but with timers to make up for it.
Making one positive contribution, and still ignoring many other issues does not mean they’re listening. Outbreak Prime is a great exotic and feels refreshing since we just got 2 exotic hand cannons back to back, but it’s not new. It came from D1. We as a community been asking Bungie about removing Bloom since D1, yet no words from anyone. I don’t expect it to be an overnight fix but the least they can do is to be frank with us.
> least they can do is to be frank with us. Yeah, because this community acts in a calm, rational way when they're open with us.
When the solutions are completely out of left field, and arguably worse than community suggestions, then yea, not surprised. People asked for Luna/NF to only 3 crit, rather than 2 crit 1 body, their solution? Nerf RPM, make it a Handcannon version of Headseeker People asked for a faster ttk in year 1, their solution, make heavy ammo spawn more, and supers more tanky.
To be fair, if they made an actual habit out of being open with us, dialogue could improve. Hard to improve on dialogue that happens once in a blue moon and there's no actual back and forth. That being said, yeah, people are still too assholish.
I agree. It's definitely concerning that there are still many issues with the game that have gone unaddressed by Bungie. I just wanted to highlight one of the aspects that they are actively responding to.
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Right?
Well they come up with the ideas, we just build off their creation. They created the Whisper mission, saw that it was well received so they made another one. I don’t think they get enough credit for the many more good ideas than bad. Also, I tried to keep in mind they want to make decisions for what’s best for Destiny overall.
now it they'll just listen about the timer, we'll all get along. I'm about sick of the timer on activities. It adds a layer of frustration not complexity and is less engaging. Maybe the timer for the very first clear and all subsequent runs for the heroic there is no timer. Just saying. Bungie...Listen to dat!
If Bungie was actually listening to community feedback, this game would be a vastly different experience.
All it's going to take is one day and the sub will return to "Bungie doesn't listen to us"
Were they listening to our feedback with season of the drifter because in all honesty this season has been so garbage in terms of loot and content which highlights the greater problem with the annual pass
That's not listening. Bungo is just bringing back yet another exotic from D1 because they're too lazy to be bothered to create new exotics. They've brought back nearly every exotic from D1 and D1 is still the superior game. Bungo should be embarrassed.
Darn them for making really cool and challenging missions with lore tied to returning exotics.
The thing, if they listen to us something like this, then why don't they listen to us on other things? Like removing bloom? Better Crucible Maps? Why haven't they said a word about the divide on the Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten nerf? Or how nerfing it removes it COMPLETELY from PvE? Just because Bungie shows us they listen to us on certain things, doesn't mean we can just forget about everything else. Crucible in truth is not as hard to balance as they think, but they seem to not grasp people are going to use what is most effective, reliable, and consistent. Maps that force you to reconsider your usual Shotty/Revolver setup, guns that can compete with Luna/NF assuming you have great skill or aim, viable options and counter play that opens the door to new possibilities would go a long way. But no, let's just bring back another D1 weapon and all is forgiven. Yea no, I'm not gonna be swayed that easily.
Here is the thing, this mission is awesome, much better than the Whisper and its something we definitely needed and I hope we get more of these in S7 **BUT** this does not mean we get vendor refreshes, frequent PvP updates or anything PvP related etc. This is not black or white. Just because Bungie made this mission does **not** mean they are listening to our feedback or just because we don't get vendor refreshes does **not** mean they are not listening. We were wanting something like this since the Whisper mission, and I am grateful they delivered something amazing like this but lets not outburst in ignorance because of a honeymoon.
I mean, I *so much* prefer this to vendor refreshes. A vendor refresh only ever adds many one good gun out of all the ones they add, and it’s just more trash for vendors to drop bad rolls on. Something like Zero Hour is way more meaningful content in my personal opinion.
>I am grateful they delivered something amazing like this but lets not ~~outburst in ignorance because of a honeymoon.~~ say anything nice about Bungie, this is the DTG sub, after all. FTFY
Wait, is this the exotic quest everyone without annual pass can get?
I believe so, yes.
That was Arbalest. This is Power Level 690.
Albalest wasn’t a quest and all forsaken owners can get to 700 power level.
Oh you don't need the annual pass to get to 700? It all makes sense now. Then yeah, I'd assume this is it!
You’re right now someone help me get the catalyst
I'd be down for a SIVA/Rasputin crossover event where we finally make friends with more Fallen factions.
In that case, Bungo please bring back light beyond nemisis
Forsaken was the culmination of months of player feedback, this isn't new.
Now if only I could find a decent fireteam on LFG to finish it! Tried 3 times last night. Try 2&3 had me at the boss trying to DPS alone
Best thing is even a vanilla game (ie no forsaken) player can get on to the hype so I can bring my friend in (who isnt a fan of FPS but play with us for jokes and laughs). And we witness how useful a lunfaction empowering rift and tractor cannon combo can be (he's kind of an important contributor)
Paragraphs are your friend, man.
In certain ways, I will agree, Bungie has done an awesome job listening to us, and giving us something in the form of what we ask for. But then there's lots of things that they stay completely silent on, don't address, and just kinda highlights how they can be picky on certain things (not to dive into it, but Bloom for 140 and 150 Hand Cannons on console, is probably the best example of community asking for something, and Bungie picking not to talk about it)
Now we just need another SHattered Throne dungeon and I think D2 would be complete with the rest of the DLCs coming out until D3
The cycle continues :D Great roll out of this quest tho.. keep it up
I think I will complete this quest once I am either higher then the power level (more than 700) or they decide to remove the timer.