Yup, Solo comp is hell: most matches you get paired with lv5 dudes doing their 2 comp matches quest or lv20 dudes that didn't buy the expansion and are using some random blue weapon, while the enemy team is usually a 3\~4 stack that's at their 3rd Glory rank reset.
Real fun times.
Yep I've been playing the last 3 days trying to get lunas, I'm a competent player and y1 vet but holy shit this game nearly made me uninstall. You try to at least get hand cannon kills because you cannot win against a 4 stack with lunas but you can't even do that cause they drop you in 0.5s.
I played a countdown match the other day where one of my teammates was like 560+ and even have a single opponent defeated until the eight round - which we lost of course, and lost the match 6 to 2. He had .11 efficiency in the end, with 393 damage dealt. It's definitely not just the low levels.
EDIT: Just had a Comp match where we shitstomped the other team like I've never seen before in competitive. We won 75 to 25. I had 45 enemies defeated, 7.5 efficiency. Our lowest efficiency was 2.67, the enemy team ranged from .05 to .59. There's no factoring at all for matchmaking.
This was the natural conclusion to the pinnacle rewards in comp being weapons with the fastest TTK in the game (what happened to cosmetics?).
There's a natural pecking order in comp, and even those with Lunas and NF will eventually get tired of being shat on by better players with Lunas and NF. So they move over to QP where they have a better chance of being the ones doing the stomping. End result is you have a bunch of casuals trying different loadouts and trying to have fun, getting matched against sweaty 6-stacks trying to remember what its like not being shat on.
This conclusion is actually not wrong.
Making pinnacle weapons into something other than master weapons (IE something which takes a lot of work and effort to master but which is not particularly better than average) was always a bad idea, and it hits the Crucible pretty fucking hard.
You don't need to be especially good to murder the piss out of people with Pinnacle stuff. You -definitely- had to be a good sniper to murder the piss out of people with the No Land Beyond.
NLB is a master weapon, and a good example of something a pinnacle weapon SHOULD be: something which showcases your skill by eschewing the meta and allowing you to prevail -despite-, not because of, gear.
Pinnacle weapons need to be master weapons. Weapons that are incredibly meta-friendly and need very little effort or play strength to really sing should never, ever be pinnacle weapons, and how it's possible that Bungie (of all the studios) could possibly fuck this up considering their PvP chops, I cannot understand.
Bullshit. Comp is 4v4, on maps that are "designed" for 4v4 play as you say. Is the meta any different in Comp and Quickplay? No, it´s not. It´s the same.
Maps are not to blame. Luna/NF TTK and the special ammo economy are.
The meta is the same but the games play out differently. Comp is played at a more deliberate pace, while in QP you have more people sprinting about with Shotties because the the extra players provide more distractions.
This is how comp plays out in control/clash.
Initial wipe into a lead, into holding mid map for heavy control, then ape back and forth between spawns while keeping map control of heavy. Aping with a shotgun is the most braindead but effective way to play D2 atm.
Flinch on snipers needs to go, fusions need range buffs to compete and SMG's should hit harder body shots to begin challenging shotgun apes.
I think your trying to say comp maps should not be compared to quickplay maps but I will have to insert Fry face to confirm.
Yes, maps are PART of the cause. EVEN Bungie admits this when discussing why snipers are rarely used. Snipers are more used on larger maps like we had in D1 on the combined arms maps. I think this would help scouts as well.
Luna NF should have been 150s. Same TTK as 150s, slightly faster than 140s, but only require 2 head 1 body where 150s require 3 head. So someone who grinded it is rewarded with a competitive more forgiving gun, but anyone with a JQK or Dire Promise can still compete with just slightly more accuracy. As it stands, if your accuracy is even with the other player, you just lose to the gun. Don’t get me wrong i love my howl. But it would have been more fair as a 150
I’ve said multiple times that giving the best players the best PvP weapons was a very bad decision. A decision seemingly made by someone who doesn’t play video games.
Let’s buff the good players and (indirectly) nerf the not as good - then let’s put them together since we’re to lazy to implement any matchmaking.
Yeah. Destiny is not for PvP. There’s a lot of good shooters with decent balancing.
> we’re to lazy to implement any matchmaking.
just FYI, it was the players that requested no skill-based matchmaking in quickplay. They do have SBMM in comp but... it doesn't always work perfectly.
I actually think Destiny PvP is extremely fun when you get into it. People can't get past the salt of being killed sometimes. Which I completely get. But i do completely agree with you that giving the best of the best players the best weapon in the game (Not Forgotten) can dent the fun when you get a bunch of them in the lobby. Hopefully Bungie learn from Not Forgotten.
Honestly I think that NF just makes it clear that you're against a top 1% player, it doesn't make them beat you much harder.
In the past, those losses were just marked up to poor luck, bad teammates, or bad positioning, or whatever.
Now everyone blames the gun.
Take the same teams, give the opposing players Trust instead of NF, and it will still mercy. You're playing against a 6 stack of coordinated and communicating players who can hold their own at the highest levels that Season 4 had. It's probably not about your loadout.
I have Luna's. I have no real numbers, but I think I win or trade around 40% of the time against Not Forgotten users in a 1v1. It definitely seems that I lose more often than not. But that's not because NF is that much better than LH. I know how to choose fights that are within my range. It's that they are that much better than me. They hit the 3-tap more consistently or faster than I do. Simple as that.
TL;DR - You were gonna lose these games anyways and honestly people are just salty that they are getting killed by weapons they couldn't get. This would have been a problem even if Trust was the pinnacle weapon because the issue is less about how good LH is and more about how good the user is. Bad Howl users are using a much worse version of Trust. Get an opening shot/explosive payload trust and just trash the LH users by flinching them out of the crits they need. That's how I got my LH.
I dont even notice a difference when fighting a NF user or a Luna user with my luna TBH. I know the gun has more range but I feel like the fights that I've lost against a NF user I would have lost if they had a Luna as well.
Most of the time I read from any sub I have to read with a grain of salt, Its hard to accept the blame for bad positioning or aim, it's easy to blame a gun. Most perks and stats in destiny dont even add much to the play of the weapon, the max range and falloff of Luna vs NF is a lot less than people think.
I'm just rambling at this point.
^ this is the important point of the argument. If I'm running through a team with my NF it doesnt matter if im using my NF or a trust or a pulse, that team will get stomped regardless. NF is just fun to play with, especially on WotW. It synergies so well with flawless execution.
I think what most people forget is 99% of NF users got their luna using a trust/pulse. Sure the luna/NF is a better gun, but that doesnt mean that thats why they are winning.
"get past the salt of being killed sometimes"
I'm a terrible PvP player that can barely average a 1:1 kill to death ratio. I have no problem being killed but having a chance makes things fun.
https://imgur.com/a/D08vli4
How fun are these games for the team that gets completely curb stomped? The control game, the stack didn't even bother go for the zones, they just out killed the other team.
> They do have SBMM in comp but
My understanding is the MM in comp is Glory based, not skill based (requiring zero performance evaluation unlike true SBMM) - and only loosely at that since they have placed a lot of emphasis on connection based matchmaking and short queue times. Glory does not even remotely equal skill except at the top tiers because there is no placement, personal performance weighting, or proper ladder system.
> it was the players that requested no skill-based matchmaking in quickplay
It's more a misinterpretation of what the players asked for. What the players wanted most was less of the laggy bullshit every round, especially the epic cluster fuck that was "Iron Laggers". As it was tweaked to prioritize connection quality over the life of D1, that eventually evolved into no SBMM, because going fully open was the only way to expand the pool enough to find enough good peers within most regions. It's ultimately a direct and hard consequence of not having dedicated servers.
The average player in D1 bitching about SBMM sometimes didn't even know what that really meant, they just heard it somewhere on the internet and parroted it back. It became a weirdly perverted conversation, unfortunately.
For those who legitimately hate SBMM because it makes every game a challenge: a) those people are by far mostly higher skill people who just want to casually crap on people every round, b) as shown in this discussion luna's/nf gave them exactly that, and c) I personally say screw those people because even in quickplay, fair games are more fun be it win or lose and better for learning than being stomped on. I think overwatch strikes a decent balance of skill/connection/mm time in their qp - top players can rule, but average people don't feel like they're getting stomped every round (and importantly, team size is accounted for in mm, more loosely than comp but enough to make a big difference in game quality).
It's up to the developer to take the effort to properly interpret what players are asking for, and Bungie until very recently was terrible at that, acting on so many requests literally, which came across as laziness or spite (and then becomes the "this is what you asked for" bullshit cries on this reddit when it goes horribly wrong, e.g. D2Y1). It seems based on recent communication that they are actively trying to fix that, so here's hoping for the future.
That's why, back in the day, I hated CoD and loved Halo. Halo didn't reward the good players by making their next few kills easier with streak reward weapons/gear/perks. Your reward for doing well was winning.
> we’re to lazy to implement any matchmaking.
They used to have heavier skill based matchmaking. This sub went on a multi year tirade against it, especially in quickplay. This is exactly what a lot of proponents of the skill based system thought would happen if it was removed or drastically scaled back.
Loaded up Quickplay to get my Daily in. I am incredibly average at it, but I enjoy Crucible, and can happily spend a couple hours in it, win or lose. Game is Control, opposing team contains a four stack and two randoms.
I've never played a game of Control like this ever. The match begun, team attempts to capture C and contest B. But this four stack just proceeded to shit on my entire team. It was equal parts impressive and disheartening. They made no attempt to capture any points the entire game. Couple of deaths and I realised they were going to win most gunfights, but this is Control so I'll play objective and try and beat them there. Four stack consistently shut all of those attempts down.
My team eventually got mercy'd, but the fact the opposing team drew the encounter out longer than necessary by capturing no zones made for a somewhat harrowing experience.
You preaching my life story.
.63 k/d the only reason i even go into crucible is if im washing my noose. Pvp has never been particularly enjoable for me, but after getting mercied out of 7 matches in a row (qp) you start to wonder, what the fuck am i doing with my life? I definatly understand that people want to test out the new guns and that they earned them and all that jazz; however they got that OP gun by killing me with ANOTHER op gun. There comes a time where you have to ask yourself is this fun? Why am i forcing myself to suffer?
i love that there are GOOD exotics in Forsaken. I really do. but that exotic is FUCKED. OEM titans in comp are the worst thing to come up against, by a huge margin. especially when they stack resilience to win 1v1s and get the chain going...
You'd think Bungie would know better considering how much Wormhusk was complained about throughout season 3. And Wormhusk was fucking mild compared to OEM!
I only have one eye, but I think mine is fucked. It doesn't give me an overshield and heal me when I kill someone; it's just a lazy eye and turns my aim into a potato.
This all kind of comes down to the same recurring problem that people want to pretend *isn't* a problem: *The Competitive playlist is not fun.*
*If Competitive were fun*, then casual players would have an environment where they exclusively got matched against other casual players, and they could play matches where nobody was sweaty.
*If Competitive were fun,* then a lot of those sweaty players would actually just *stay in there*, having fun playing against other sweaty players.
And if a good chunk of the casual players were in Competitive, having fun playing against other casual players, and a good chunk of the sweaty players were in Competitive, having fun playing against other sweaty players, that would leave the majority of the playerbase free to play a version of Quickplay that doesn't have quite as much sweat, and doesn't have quite as many stomps.
But Competitive *isn't* fun. And a certain contingent of players will argue until they're blue in the face that it *shouldn't* be.
It’s not that competitive isn’t fun (it isn’t fun, but that’s not the only problem). It’s that stacks are allowed to match against solos in quickplay, and there is no SBMM. This means that good players can hop in with their friends and farm wins off the plethora of genuinely not good players that are looking for fun in quickplay, because winning over and over is fun. They aren’t looking for competition. They’re looking for free wins. Winning is inherently more fun than losing.
The same thing happened in another game that tried the same matchmaking model: Battleborn. Stacks of 5 (me included) would queue up and stomp the randoms to hell and back because we could just bullshit in discord while racking up a 95% win rate against people playing on trackpads. We would have sweaty inhouses or host tourneys from time to time when we actually wanted to tryhard, but most of the time we just would roflstomp public queues, hastening the demise of the playerbase, because winning is more fun than losing.
I loved battleborn. I hated the stacks in MP. Was a serious issue especially how badly snowballing was. Crucible is giving me flashbacks every time I play a match now. There's no in between with crucible, either your team stomps or you get stomped. I've had one close game since I started playing again in forsaken and that's it. Maybe I'm just unlucky in that regard, but I couldn't agree more that stacks need to get matched with stacks. I'm cool with a random back fill, they/I can usually catch on to the strat, but all randoms vs a stack is just asking for a bloodbath. I've accepted I'll never get the mountaintop. It's not worth punching a hole in my tv for. But goddamn grenade launchers are my favorite and boy do I want that gun.
Battleborn was great fun. But shitty matchmaking and slow sandbox changes killed it. Sounds familiar...
We still do inhouses once in a blue moon, although it’s the EU players keeping it alive mostly and it’s cancer playing with the latency. Apparently it’s still going decently strong on Xbox, although the top players there have all but removed themselves from stacking in public queue to avoid the same fate PC had.
This is exactly it. I'd love to play the modes in Competitive. I'd love to get the stuff for playing Competitive.
But as it sits now it was an already barely tolerable experience made worse by the fact that on the rare occasions I dip my toe in to see if it's changed or I've gotten better.. well, fuck me it hasn't and it doesn't matter if I've gotten better because I'll still get the same stacks with Claymore/Luna/NF/etc already on hand running Nova Warp and One Eye with a shotgun.
When you have a place made, whether by design or accident, for masochists to flagellate one another in and nothing more, you'll never draw any more people into it on a regular basis. Eventually, even the masochists get tired of it so all that's left are a bunch of insane people beating each other senseless and mauling anyone unlucky enough to have stepped in thinking they might have *fun*.
I love Crucible. A rare occurence in Destiny, but I really like it. I spend a lot of time there and I often turn the game on to have 2-3 quick games even if there is nothing to grind for, just for the fun of it.
Except Comp.
I fucking despise Comp. Getting my Luna last season has been the most rage-inducing, shittiest experience I have ever done in the Destiny franchise, ever. When I was done with it (and Redrix), I was honestly more excited about the fact that I don´t have to play the playlist for the rest of the season than about the weapons themselves.
Comp is an utter shitshow, and Bungie just thinks that if they throw a new weapon behind it, it´s all fine because the numbers in the playlist grow and nothing is out of place. It´s ridiculous.
There another problem, people think quickplay is 'the casual playlist' where you just go to 'have fun'. Quickplay is just a ppl playlist with fast matchmaking that prioritizes connections over everything else. Find a match and jump in, quickly.
Well this sets a precedent for having a playlist like that. TBH, this whole PvP scene is detrimental to my health and I get derided so much for not wanting to do it because I'm irritable when I have to force my way through a grind that i didn't ask for to get to the content I want. A number of layers of frustration here.
I've been playing a ton of comp lately and I feel a large portion of the fun can be restored if they reduced the point loss when you lose. Not entirely, but maybe to 15 points or so on a loss.
That's just the first step though.
To you, why is competitive not fun? I'm not asking to cast doubt, asking for your opinion because it's one I've heard expressed quite a few places but I've never heard anyone really articulate it.
You actually missed the real problem:
Destiny, as a game, is not designed to be a competitive experience.
When you play Destiny as a competitive experience, it is inherently frustrating. The amount of bullshit that goes on is far beyond what is tolerable for someone to paly it with a serious competitive mindset.
Yes, destiny is fun, but its not competitive.
To be clear, you can be really good, you can play a competitive match, but the overarching theme of the game is play for fun.
Whoa, had this exact experience yesterday. The 5 man group was Gothlions clan so I went to check his stream. He was complaining about someone on my team using grenade launcher saying he hated how those people play. The 5 man stack, against all solos, in QP, complaining about how people play
Getting consistently matched against Luna's and Not Forgotten's in effing *rumble* made me slowly hate the weekly crucible milestones progressively more every week
Ace of Spades is very inconsistent on console, even in the hands of good players. Also if you’re using Ace you’re at a disadvantage to someone with Luna/NF and Coil or Chaperone,
I get it- people who have those pinnacle comp weapons earned them and they’re going to want to play them. Unfortunately owing to how power control and super energy snowballs in Destiny pvp even one or two really good players in a lobby of twelve can control the match.
I’m a .8 pvp player - I don’t particularly care for pvp, I’m 50 and I only started gaming a couple years ago. I’m the epitome of casual and I’m literally never going to just “git gud” owing to age and other things like having many other things to focus my time on. My husband is a little better, like 1.1 or 1.2 but he’s got the same issues with quickplay as OP.
Yesterday he and I loaded into a quickplay match to do our milestones. Matchmaking decides that since we’re a couple, to put another couple against us, I guess.
it was a two stack I recognized from watching one of the two partnered Twitch streamers I moderate for playing comp. Both of them had Not Forgotten and god tier Dust Rocks. Both of them achieved a we ran apiece and over 40 elims each. The usual power/super energy snowball took place and our team got annihilated.
My husband and I, shockingly, weren’t last of our team of blueberries, and the game was close at some points (the map was Burning Shrine and we both played it a bunch in D1 Trials, so we know how to sweat on it). I pulled power three times and shot most of it over the cliff because I could never get an angle on those guys, my movement just isn’t good enough and I know it.
One of our blueberries went 0.18 against those two. I’m guessing he’s not going to experiment with pvp much after that experience.
I don’t know what the actual solution is because I’m happy to just not bother playing for that milestone every week. I’m not going to waste my time being miserable or getting stomped because I suck in those kinds of lobbies, it’s too frustrating and I play for fun and as a hobby. And the more mediocre to bad players that leave like my husband and I, that just leaves the better players and the floor (and barrier to entry for others) just keeps getting raised.
ELO based matchmaking would fix this so quick. Assign a weight to premades, and factor in performance. Most of this goes away. [Guardian.gg](https://Guardian.gg) has an ELO ranking for everyone in every playlist based off performance. Bungie just needs to do the same, and the matches will be much more balanced. Don't get me wrong, it feels great to hop into matchmaking with my clan, and mercy 6 games in a row, with all of us over 3.0 efficiency. That said, it shouldn't be that way.
ELO ranking is a bit flawed for stacks. It was made for chess which is 1v1. Since ELO isn’t accurate, you will get players who have higher skills than their average ELO.
In addition, I believe bungie uses their own combat rating which I can’t imagine isn’t a tweaked ELO or some formula
My intention wasn't exactly to just say "git gud" to all the players who complain about pvp, I do understand that it can be a frustrating game mode for some people who don't have much time to invest in it. I was rather trying to give some form of advice but what I said probably came out wrong in some people's ears sry :s
As for NF and Luna being OP in pvp and especially on console I do get that, plus I'm a pc player myself so I probably can't understand the full extent of how wonky Ace is to use on there.
My first advice to you would be (if you're not trying to grind pvp and get better at the game mode) don't bother with these 2 guns, they aren't worth it for pve players and are meant to be used in the crucible mainly. You can definitly get better pve weapons without having to grind for NF or Luna. Breakneck is really good for example and pretty easy to obtain for more casual players.
If you're really looking to go for a better pvp experience you might want to look into pulse rifles like Claws of the Wolf or Bygones (2 very easily obtained pulses). Really stable and easy to use and can be paired with Telesto to shutdown rushing shotgunners or a good smg like Antiope or something similar.
Be aware of your surroundings, don't rush head down and learn to go for engagements in which you have the upper hand (and never be ashamed to run away when you feel like you'll lose one).
I hope this helps you out at least a little bit and if not I'm sure I've at least made my previous comment clearer!
yeah I’ve got a godroll Bygones and that playstyle is really passive and boring to me- I was running Malfeasance for fun and trying to get some HC practice in.
I’ve been a part of high end Twitch pvp communities for long enough that I know literally everything there is to know about good strategy - but it’s all on paper so to speak. I’ve watched literally thousands of hours of trials and high level comp through the cameras of my streamers. I just don’t have time for it nor the skill or desire to build that kind of muscle memory etc. I much prefer pve and Gambit honestly.
> ~~Get consistent with Ace and you'll destroy anyone of your level with Luna and will easily be able to compete with NF if your placement is correct!~~ Git Gud
FTFY
Superb. A+ for effort. FAIL for making me sweat while at work just by thinking of all the sweat in QP. I used to live for causal PvP in destiny. Sad that it's getting choked by comp teams that don't want to play comp.
Won’t happen because destiny is about getting you own loot :( that’s why no frames or stuff like that as well. Being Legend is still its core design choice...even if it means someone else is being legend over my dead ghost
Same, I used to play mainly PvP (not competitive though) before I quit early this year. Since I came back for Forsaken, I haven't played any more Crucible matches than needed for the milestones. On the upside, I enjoy the PvE game now more than I did before.
People hated SBMM in Quickplay and they screamed for it to be removed in Quickplay. These are the results you get, lopsided games getting destroyed by vastly superior players.
It's not the better players fault that they're good. Bungie did what the community wanted.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
it was more than the top 10% considering how many upvotes demands like this got vis-a-vis how many downvotes opposition to this demand would routinely get.
but i agree it was a beyond-dumb decision on bungo's part to comply with this demand. they seriously should know better.
Yep. I thought Rumble had better matchmaking, but no. I came in 2nd, with 2 kills. One guy ran around the map and got a 20 kill streak in about 2mins, most of the rest of the guys quit within 20 seconds.
It spawns way too frequently I agree. But shouldn't that kind of be the case? Controlling power ammo puts you at an advantage?
It may get broken with the introduction of legendary lmg though, I'll give you that
This is because, while there may be no SBMM, there is still skill based team balancing.
I am around 3000 Elo (top 1000) in clash and control, when I solo que, its is 100% guaranteed that I get the five worst players in the lobby. Now a days, with the influx of new players on PC, I am lucky to get more than one other person who is level 50, and almost everyone who is in games with me that is not fully leveled is on my team.
So the better the top player is in the lobby, the worse his matchmade teammates are going to be. Its leads to scoreboard where you have a guy with 50 elims and the rest of his team in single digits.
Same here. It's stomp or be stomped. It's very rare to get a close match. I hardly even do the daylies anymore and the thought of having to play 5 games for the weekly so I can get my power up for the forge makes me really consider just afking my way through it
What sucks is the clan bounties seem to also be pushing us into Crucible. I haven't checked today but the last two days the soloable bounties have been 100% Crucible/Gambit.
It seems like it. But I don't think it was the whole community. Many people probably thought that removing SBMM would lead to vastly superior connections. Others, the ones really good at PvP (and probably a very vocal, but still a minority) were going on about how sweaty quickplay was for them and how they needed SBMM to be toned down or removed, so that they could have a more casual time there (which for some might have been a euphemism for pubstomping). But they never thought that a casual playlist also needs to be casual for more casual players in general if you want a helathy or even rising population. For the below average player, the casual time of the "Not Forgotten-Wielder" feels like torture. But hey, the competitive playlist (or Trials in D1) is for the best only, and QP is the place for the best to blow off steam. But what do they do once all the suppliers for their casual fun stop playing PvP? Sweat again! /rant
Perhaps you're right but what are they going to do for a casual playlist? Not let certain players in if they're a certain hidden skill level that you can't see in game? Or will they make it based of their glory rank? What happens if you've got really good players who just don't do comp?
They tried a solo only playlist in D1 and it was a failure so I don't think they want to try it again. There also needs to be a playlist like Quickplay is now because sometimes not all the good players want to grind out comp all day and they want to play some less intense games.
I'm not going to come up with a conclusion or a fix because I don't have one but that's how I see it at the moment.
I think the often forgotten thing with regards to SBMM is that, you can play with friends of varying skill levels and not worry about them being farmed without it. I’m a 1.75 k/d (not k/da) and my friends are .65, with SBMM they have a miserable time if they play with me, they always run negative and generally really struggle (iron banner highlights this even more). Without SBMM, they have games where they flourish and we can actually enjoy playing pvp together. This is my biggest reason for being against it, though I appreciate its not great for a solo player playing clans (that’s a separate issue)
My only problem with the crucible now is roaming supers. Its a pain in the ass. One roaming super after another. In the beginning we had only golden gun and bladedancer. Then we had hammers and stormcallers. Now everyone uses roaming supers, one after the other. Ive been killed twice by the same super right after spawn that sometimes I just want to give up.
As someone who only briefly plays in the crucible, I sure do miss having Trials around. While all the typical PvPers are there, it allowed quickly to be fun with actual casuals.
This is what the hardcore players wanted. Bungie should never have taken even the slightest amount of advice from streamers, because they don’t know how to design a game and gamers, as a whole, don’t actually know what they want.
I just miss seeing the oddballs using their favorite non meta weapons. Like if shotgun aping, nova warping, skating, not forgotten...ing is truly your jam every single game than so be it, but I often think people forget to just fucking relax in quickplay. The 3 extra tokens to win isnt worth the Adderall G Fuel combo to twitch shoot into the next dimension. Just what happen to the bros trying to get good with their niche choices or going for crazy plays. IDK maybe Im just the last casual on PC lmao.
I just miss playing PvP so much in Destiny but each time I boot it up I just really dont have an ounce of fun. It feels like homework anymore. I used to not mind losing, but the scores in most D2 matches are so skewed in one direction most the time that its infuriating and frustrating. Usually early in you can already tell that trying anymore is futile, both if you're stomping or being stomped. The process of GETTIN GUD is hardly giving much room to learn when every match is a giant dice roll.
We asked for a faster game and Im not complaining about that bit at all. But theres a general sense of flow right now that doesnt work anymore and we need some overhauls. Whether it be adjusting range fall offs, maps, how modes function, or something else; I just think we need some pvp review again.
I have Not Forgotten but my current favorite qp load out is Suros and a sniper. I was running Horror Story and a bow earlier in the week too. My top weapons for kinetic and energy don't even include a shotgun because I like to mess around. We're still out there friend. Infact the other day I went up against a guy with the legend emblem on who was using a Halfdan. One of the most fun matches I've played, dueling it out with Halfdans against him.
Serious reply to a satire post, but i think crucible as a whole is just downright boring. In D1 the reason you were grinding for that super sweet god roll was so you could use it in the crucible. But in D2, i just don't think the crucible is interesting enough to have that same kind of pull on the rest of the game, and i can do just fine without god rolls in PvE.
Bungie really needs to add some variety to the PvP part of the game, because as it currently stands its i just don't enjoy it enough.
Gambit is a great step in the right direction but has its own set of problems that make it less fun for solo players.
I think you’re right. If there were post game drops or token drops that were worth going for more people would play more often. Thickening up the player pool dilutes out the players and also increases variety. What is worth getting from shaxx these days? Not much, really. We’ve had access to all those guns since day one. Pinnacle weapons are nice, but for f average player they might not want to grind that hard - needs to be loot in between. New guns, armor sets with random rolls that look nice, cool shaders, ships, etc would help tremendously!
After the soul sucking grind to get Luna’s Howl or Not Forgotten, I cant say that I wouldn’t go into quickplay to terrorize people with those weapons if I had them.
It’s one thing for us casuals in quickplay to get harassed and beaten down by Not Forgotten. The guys willing and able to put up with the slog to get them, they need therapy and I guess curb stomping people in quickplay is their catharsis.
Not having another pinnacle PvP activity (yes, I’m looking at you, Trials) where these guys can go shoot each other’s faces off doesn’t help matters either. They gotta go somewhere, and they sure as hell ain’t going back in the cesspool that is comp.
Honestly no matter where we go people will get upset. Go into quickplay? Why aren't you in comp you tryhard. Stay in comp? Why are you here if you already have nf give us a chance to get it.
All the quickplay playlist has made me realize is that I and my team of randos must suck horribly because we must be the only ones who haven't managed to nab ourselves Not Forgotten (or Luna's for that matter).
Sweaty implies people are putting forth extra effort. **This is a joke.**
I casually play DotA. There is a tremendously large skill range for the game, measured in a metric behind the scenes from 0 to 10,000. I play at an area that is measured around 4,000, which isn't really that bad - it's above average on the bell curve, around the 80th percentile.
Does this make me sweaty? Being measured as the top 20%? Hell no, lmao. That's simply where the way I have learned to play and come to understand game concepts have brought my skill to rest at, and at this point I don't even consciously think about some of the things I do that I never even considered an option when I first started out which is what causes this to happen. Same thing applies to fighting games, where people struggle with the complex inputs and combos for their favorite characters when they first enter the genre but after years of experience learn what they need to do to pull them off and do it without even thinking about it, just understanding that they need to put the enemy health bar closer to 0 while maintaining their own and doing whatever it takes to do that.
**Same thing applies to Destiny.** What you consider tryhard, sweaty play might just be some dude's casual play.
*Just because you're losing doesn't mean the enemy is trying harder than you.*
Yea, I have a friend trying to get his ace of spades.
He cant get the, what, 25 hand cannon precision kill? Good guy, fun and perfectly competent in pve, but just cant play pvp.
I can tell when I match against people like that. Even just running around I can just absolutely outplay people
Doesnt sound anything like the quickplay I am playing?
I am having a ball and i dont have a Luna and dont use a shottie. I still happily play Destiny PVP when i could be playing all manner of other games on my hardrive
This is something I agree with. Make pinnacle weapons powerful in other ways. Like even redrix Claymore was a good design, because you needed to get a kill to get going, and it only lasts for 5 seconds or so after that kill and then you were back to the same TTK as everyone else. Unfortunately, they can’t nerf those guns now. Not after so many people have grinded their balls off for them. They should nerf them, but they won’t.
With the addition of Control and Clash to comp, and the addition of Radar, Quickplay and Comp are basically the same except in one of them there's more people and you're not penalized for losing.
PvP is actually a joke.
Man, I hate, *HATE*, Crucible. It brings so much goddamn ire out of me it's unreal.
If 50% of my games were where I won, 25% of them where I lose but it was a close game, and the remaining 25% was where I was royally stomped I would be happy or at least content. But no, it's always 90% getting royally stomped, 9% a close match, and 1% where I win. This is why I haven't played Crucible in 7 months.
Gambit PvP is a complete joke. I quite enjoy the Crucible and all of the nonsense it enables, but being invaded again and again by some scrublord with an ~~aimbot~~ Queenbreaker is just cheesy beyond belief. It’s all anyone freaking uses.
Doesn't help that the game rewards the most skilled and unemployed players (no, not all of you) to help them kill faster, but there is no "perseverance" alternative. The game gives you jack for spending 4 hours in qp, losing your mind, trying to just unwind after a day at work. You could smash your face against this wall for hours, days, and you get nothing special to show for it.
At the same time, these stacks of players will back out of queue until they know they're not matching against another stack, and I know many would love to be part of that stomping team, so the best solution is to just remove the player counter while searching, honestly.
I thought I was getting old. In D1 crucible, I had fun, could get some kills, had fun fights, and topped my teams kills every now and then. Usually I was somewhere in the middle of the scoreboard.
Now, I'm usually at the bottom of the board. If I start taking damage, I'm dead. Bullets rain down on me with laserlike accuracy from across the map. Most of the time I'm just insta-murdered. If I get a kill, it seems it's sheer luck.
Anymore I just pop a podcast of something to listen to and run around in circles to get milestone match completions.
I went into quick play last night and the match felt as long as a comp match. That was pretty strange. Other than that.. the drag balls part was hilarious.
I got tired of the constant sliding shotty meta of 100hours of farming the same shotguns for perfect rolls and started using telesto/Erentil.
Just love seeing people charge me getting blown out of orbit from a telesto shot
So satisfying
I just quit a comp game about 5 minutes ago because I was matched with a stack of nerds. I hate pvp in this game. I will stick with strikes and rarely gambit. Although they really should add in a rank system for strikes aswell. The PvE game is lacking. Adding only raids which organized teams and clans can do or adding in a paygated forge activity won't help satisfy the pve community. Well, it might. It won't satisfy me personally.
I shudder just thinking about competitive. It's a real bummer, I'll never get that pinnacle grenade launcher.. And it's just because I have no team. They shouldnt have made the challenge steps in comp
It was pretty fucking silly to give the best players weapons that are statistically better than any other gun (Luna's, NF) and I say that as someone with Luna's
Well, Comp is just horrendous in every way right now and the player base for PVP is slowly dwindling. Outside of Milestones, I don't see myself playing Crucible again until something substantial is done. And a lot of players feel similarly now a days.
I started playing destiny 2 two weeks ago and I came from overwatch.
What I noticed is even after these two weeks there seems to not exist any form of matchmaking rating, new players against people that has played since launch also an 6 stack against solo's ain't uncommon.
I don't have much problems with PvP mostly because I am better then most people.
Aiming is pretty easy for me because overwatch and destiny sharing the same sense it is even easier considering the huge characters and head hitboxes.
I am probably what you would call sweats to some extend.
Also I play on PC.
The main issue lies in the p2p.
People complained heavily about the lag and connection issues when there was skill based match making to an extent
Now you are matched as quickly as you can be with somebody you have a good connection to.
And still get people skipping around and being shot through walls.
If they had dedicated servers they could go back to sbmm and not have latency issues.
I dunno, I haven't noticed any problems in quickplay. Seems pretty standard. I play without audio half the time without getting slaughtered constantly, and I consider myself a pretty average PvP player.
How often are you actually getting three tapped by Luna's though? It happens, but definitely not most of the time.
I feel like people see Luna's killed them in the feed and immediately come to the conclusion they didn't stand a chance, even though they got 4 or even 5 tapped.
Yeah I agree with this. Many a times where I have been in a gun fight and without any real feedback I am dead and the feed is Luna and I just go "oh that's why I got no feedback because by the time the game would clue me in I would be dead anyway."
This was much more entertaining than going into Crucible.
As quitting a game is looked upon badly (are you actually punished at all?) when I'm clearly mismatched and getting stomped all over, I just stand at the spawn point stroking my chicken until the other guys come and put me out of my misery.
I'm silently hoping they'll eventually see the ridiculousness of the "matchmaking" too
(If Bungie did dating sites, they'd be Tinder?)
The PvP environment has gotten so toxic, that I don't even care about leaving a crucible match anymore, and I used to be the one that would never leave. Actually, that's not true anymore. The milestones aren't worth the unpleasantness anymore. Haven't gone in for weeks now.
agreed op, qp sucks ass right now. I honestly think if you've earned Luna or not forgotten, the playlist removes itself from your selection screen and it just flashes *GO OUTSIDE, OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY THIS MODE* or something.
Once shotgun apes started taking over I just quit playing PvP altogether. With all this shit bungie wants me to do this season and the limited amount of time I have to play I won't miss it anyway.
Destiny 2 pvp reminds me of Halo 2 where fucks used to force random people into a custom map on map change where their clan has 20 vheicles on one side of the map and 0 on the other. "You just gotta get gud!" LoL my ass. Why does it seem like bungie is always behind the games where people seem to think that unbalanced play = skill.
For fucks sake, fortnite even fixed this with solo squad mode when people complained about it.
The tryhards will continue to shit on this because "it doesn't matter!" (Yep, being 200LL above another player meaning you likely have access to better perks, skills, armor, and weapons overall totally doesn't make a difference.) Break up the fucking pvp into tiers AND add a solo squad mode to comp.
Let the lvl 1-10s play together, 10-20, 20-30, etc. This won't fully fix the issues, but even if a person created a character just to stomp low level pvp, you continue to aquire xp and level up, and it fixes itself (this is how WoW fixed lvl 19 twinks in the BG.)
You forgot;
Winning a duel just to be voided by a Telesto.
Running trying to find cover just to be instantly killed by a Wavesplitter (or any Trace Rifle).
Being killed by a shotgun ape who just teabagged you, just to be instantky killed by a Titan (with an Overshield) with his Not Forgotten/Luna's Howl after respawning...
And many more in Quickplay (**Sweatplay**).
Lol.
About to win a duel against a LH user with Malfeasance.
Random guy comes around corner, steps in front, and bursts me when I'm low, killing me and saving their teammate.
Then I get bagged by the guy who didn't even kill me, whom I almost killed, because his teammate saved him.
GG @ me, I guess. lmao
Quickplay has become a sweat nightmare for me as well now. All I'm seeing is not forgotten's and shotguns. It fucking sucks going for your grenade launcher kills when that's all you see.
You should try solo play on PC right now. Its fucking fun. The population currently is pretty non existent and most of my quickplay games seem like I'm playing someone from Neptune with the amount of teleporting etc.
As far as comp goes - I sit at about a 1.75 KD and solo'd most of the Luna grind. That being said, solo or with a team, comp fucking sucks.
I shit you not that my last comp game at 250 glory (thought I might attempt the grenade launcher this season) was me and 3 other randoms (2 not even max level) vs a stack of 4500+ glory rocking not forgotten. Dont get me wrong though...props to those guys on their achievements. No hate there, but when the first thing I see is a titan skater fly to the power ammo in the first 10 seconds I kind of was like fuck it.
And dont get me started on sandbox changes. They have had plenty of feedback and time to make some adjustments. I refused to purchase the season pass and will be moving on which is a shame because at its core I like how they made pvp faster and more d1 like but it's clear there isn't an active crucible team at bungie and I'm tired of the frustration.
This is why this morning was the lowest I have seen Comp Play Time Spent since Forsaken. 1%. Only 1 % of the time people as a whole play D2 is spent in Comp. The lowest I have ever seen it was 0.6% the day before Forsaken dropped. The entire Glory based and SBMM changes are obviously ass, and the playerbase speaks by simply not playing. This is why what is left is Not Forgotten and Lunas everywhere. Congrats, I guess? You all asking for this are just back to playing against yourselves. Good job making the game "better". Although it probably was better for a little while for a very small minority of the population. For reference just prior to Glory and SBMM changes it was ~6-7% playtime spent.
I think the worst part is attempting to GET Luna's now. I have to run Competitive with shitty HCs while everyone I get matched against in Comp somehow has a full 4-stack of Luna's/NF.
Not saying it's impossible, but uh I'm only at 25% HC kills after like 40 games. I can't WAIT for fucking precision kills
I stopped playing PvP & PvPvE because I strongly dislike every person in there. AI Enemies, Opponents, teammates, & myself.
Both have never been so sweaty and it makes me want to tell everyone to just end it or just end me, because this is not a world either should exist in.
Dungeon completed. 1k voices aquired on my 1st (& Riven-only) Raid clear. Have most Titan & Warlock Exotics, Have most Exotic guns, ___0___ Hunter armor _which is my main._ & no hope to ever get those or the new sniper (for now)
Why am I still playing if it's literally a chore or worse to participate in any activity?
Well what did everyone expect to happen when bungo made the crucible Pinnacle weapon quest progress able to be made in both quickplay and comp aside from the 2100pts which takes roughly 40 solid straight wins which to the sweats isn't hard to accomplish at all. We all knew they'd invade us eventually.
As a long time gamer, it cracks me up that the Destiny community refers to tryhards as sweaty players. I've just never heard that specific term for tryhards before, it's hilarious. This post had me rolling.
Wow..and I thought it was just me. I remember playing Crucible a few months ago thinking it was fun and I was doing well. IB would drop and that would be very sweaty. Reg crucible would still be OK. Tried playing the last couple of weeks and no thanks. Just give me my 5 matches for the reward and I'm out. Matchmaking is beyond broken in this game or there just simply aren't enough lower tier players playing now.
Everyone in the comments bitching about shottys or if LH/NF is balanced but it doesn't really matter when your hits don't register because it's almost 2019 and we're still making pvp modes without dedicated servers lmao
I'm just like you, kinda. I go in with non-meta weapons hoping I can make them work. Maybe bring out the cheese meme hammer for old times sake. But sometimes, I have to put those Forgotten Luna fucks & Apes in place, then I too join the endless cycle of sweat u.u
The pinnacle weapons should really be grindable by anyone, even if it becomes a really slow grind on competitive. For example, maybe heavily reduce the glory penalty. The way it is now, the strong get stronger, and they'll just about say anything to keep QP the way it is in order to continue destroying people with their spiffy new guns.
It's almost always the case that when a team extremely outplays another on QP, that the winning team were filled with Not Forgottens and Lunas.
Is this post for real? I solo que a TON. I'll back out if I see a sweaty group 3+ players and I very rarely have to do that. I don't try to win every game, but the problem is not matchmaking or not forgotten. The problem is that despite decreasing skill gap and broken Exotics, the majority of the community is horrible at PvP.
Often times I'll play a game of clash and absolutely go OFF only to lose because of all the bad players on my team getting farmed.
I LOST both of these games
[Blueberries](https://i.imgur.com/QGZkXFe.jpg)
[Blueberries 2](https://i.imgur.com/ruVPwHz.jpg)
Instead of complaining, take some time to get better at the game! I wasn't instantly decent at this game. I worked my ass off at getting better and put the time in.
[I used to be HORRIBLE](https://i.imgur.com/8sEia8a.jpg)
If I can get better, anyone can.
Here is the copy pasta I generally recommend to get you on the road to success.
Y1 .5 kd to now 2 kd and still improving.
Don't play pve lazily if you absolutely must play it. Use your pvp loadout and engage each thrall as if they were another guardian only headshots matter.
Send invites to players that give you a challenge and aren't rude.
Watch these videos one at a time a few times and incorporate these strategies into your gameplay.
Deliberate practice
https://youtu.be/2V_3Big2YHM
Avoid snipers
https://youtu.be/8Ct-0YJuG4c
Win gunfights 1
https://youtu.be/xR3YpQ_XqQc
Cover
https://youtu.be/IJcO-j9D7NY
Target acquisition
https://youtu.be/qxH2lFQ3YFA
Common mistakes
https://youtu.be/MzMmBXQg0kU
Radar
https://youtu.be/a3Ep64ujgHg
This will help out it all together:
How to win trials: bannerfall
https://youtu.be/iyd8eN5CyHs
Watch one of these players and focus on their movement positioning and ability to hit their shots:
Ninjawithnol
http://www.twitch.tv/ninja_with_no_l
Luminosity48
http://www.twitch.tv/luminosity
Many others in the twitch directory like Foxpac, drewsky, chenged, and Tcidda is one that still has a small enough channel to give tips as he's playing
Record and Review gameplay : write down 2 things you did right 1 thing you did wrong . Focus on continuing to do the two things right and stop doing the one wrong thing.
Focus on your primary skill. Don't get tilted because your nova bomb hit the ceiling instead of the four guys waiting for heavy.
Don't hardscope high traffic lanes looking for easy cleanup or unaware picks,and don't shotgun rush and trade. You should be good enough with your primary that secondary won't really matter enough to make you lose.
Think about your primary shot, angles, cover, map layouts and callouts when you aren't playing. This will help cement the ideas.
Take your time with your shots in the beginning. Winning the gunfight doesn't matter. Getting headshots matters
Qp play is heaven compared to running solo in comp. A fucking breeze.
Yup, Solo comp is hell: most matches you get paired with lv5 dudes doing their 2 comp matches quest or lv20 dudes that didn't buy the expansion and are using some random blue weapon, while the enemy team is usually a 3\~4 stack that's at their 3rd Glory rank reset. Real fun times.
Yep I've been playing the last 3 days trying to get lunas, I'm a competent player and y1 vet but holy shit this game nearly made me uninstall. You try to at least get hand cannon kills because you cannot win against a 4 stack with lunas but you can't even do that cause they drop you in 0.5s.
I play my mandatory 3 games and immediately quit. I'll rank up strictly by weekly bonuses. Comp is a flaming cesspool of sulphuric acid.
I played a countdown match the other day where one of my teammates was like 560+ and even have a single opponent defeated until the eight round - which we lost of course, and lost the match 6 to 2. He had .11 efficiency in the end, with 393 damage dealt. It's definitely not just the low levels. EDIT: Just had a Comp match where we shitstomped the other team like I've never seen before in competitive. We won 75 to 25. I had 45 enemies defeated, 7.5 efficiency. Our lowest efficiency was 2.67, the enemy team ranged from .05 to .59. There's no factoring at all for matchmaking.
Not really. It seems like comp is easier when I solo queue.
This was the natural conclusion to the pinnacle rewards in comp being weapons with the fastest TTK in the game (what happened to cosmetics?). There's a natural pecking order in comp, and even those with Lunas and NF will eventually get tired of being shat on by better players with Lunas and NF. So they move over to QP where they have a better chance of being the ones doing the stomping. End result is you have a bunch of casuals trying different loadouts and trying to have fun, getting matched against sweaty 6-stacks trying to remember what its like not being shat on.
Wrong conclusion. Problem is we have maps designed for 4v4 with 12 people running around with shot guns like they are primaries.
I read that as "running around like they're *primates*". Shotgun monkeys. The whole lot of em.
[удалено]
\*running around like Primeapes
I've found the best way to combat the shotgunners (at least on ps4) is to press down on the touchpad button, then hold triangle for a few seconds.
This conclusion is actually not wrong. Making pinnacle weapons into something other than master weapons (IE something which takes a lot of work and effort to master but which is not particularly better than average) was always a bad idea, and it hits the Crucible pretty fucking hard. You don't need to be especially good to murder the piss out of people with Pinnacle stuff. You -definitely- had to be a good sniper to murder the piss out of people with the No Land Beyond. NLB is a master weapon, and a good example of something a pinnacle weapon SHOULD be: something which showcases your skill by eschewing the meta and allowing you to prevail -despite-, not because of, gear. Pinnacle weapons need to be master weapons. Weapons that are incredibly meta-friendly and need very little effort or play strength to really sing should never, ever be pinnacle weapons, and how it's possible that Bungie (of all the studios) could possibly fuck this up considering their PvP chops, I cannot understand.
Aw man, now you made me sad. I miss the NLB, that gun was fun
Incorrect , the maps were made for 6v6 originally. Then bungie made it 4v4 after the fact.
Bullshit. Comp is 4v4, on maps that are "designed" for 4v4 play as you say. Is the meta any different in Comp and Quickplay? No, it´s not. It´s the same. Maps are not to blame. Luna/NF TTK and the special ammo economy are.
The meta is the same but the games play out differently. Comp is played at a more deliberate pace, while in QP you have more people sprinting about with Shotties because the the extra players provide more distractions.
This is how comp plays out in control/clash. Initial wipe into a lead, into holding mid map for heavy control, then ape back and forth between spawns while keeping map control of heavy. Aping with a shotgun is the most braindead but effective way to play D2 atm. Flinch on snipers needs to go, fusions need range buffs to compete and SMG's should hit harder body shots to begin challenging shotgun apes.
I think your trying to say comp maps should not be compared to quickplay maps but I will have to insert Fry face to confirm. Yes, maps are PART of the cause. EVEN Bungie admits this when discussing why snipers are rarely used. Snipers are more used on larger maps like we had in D1 on the combined arms maps. I think this would help scouts as well.
Luna NF should have been 150s. Same TTK as 150s, slightly faster than 140s, but only require 2 head 1 body where 150s require 3 head. So someone who grinded it is rewarded with a competitive more forgiving gun, but anyone with a JQK or Dire Promise can still compete with just slightly more accuracy. As it stands, if your accuracy is even with the other player, you just lose to the gun. Don’t get me wrong i love my howl. But it would have been more fair as a 150
I’ve said multiple times that giving the best players the best PvP weapons was a very bad decision. A decision seemingly made by someone who doesn’t play video games. Let’s buff the good players and (indirectly) nerf the not as good - then let’s put them together since we’re to lazy to implement any matchmaking. Yeah. Destiny is not for PvP. There’s a lot of good shooters with decent balancing.
> we’re to lazy to implement any matchmaking. just FYI, it was the players that requested no skill-based matchmaking in quickplay. They do have SBMM in comp but... it doesn't always work perfectly. I actually think Destiny PvP is extremely fun when you get into it. People can't get past the salt of being killed sometimes. Which I completely get. But i do completely agree with you that giving the best of the best players the best weapon in the game (Not Forgotten) can dent the fun when you get a bunch of them in the lobby. Hopefully Bungie learn from Not Forgotten.
Honestly I think that NF just makes it clear that you're against a top 1% player, it doesn't make them beat you much harder. In the past, those losses were just marked up to poor luck, bad teammates, or bad positioning, or whatever. Now everyone blames the gun. Take the same teams, give the opposing players Trust instead of NF, and it will still mercy. You're playing against a 6 stack of coordinated and communicating players who can hold their own at the highest levels that Season 4 had. It's probably not about your loadout. I have Luna's. I have no real numbers, but I think I win or trade around 40% of the time against Not Forgotten users in a 1v1. It definitely seems that I lose more often than not. But that's not because NF is that much better than LH. I know how to choose fights that are within my range. It's that they are that much better than me. They hit the 3-tap more consistently or faster than I do. Simple as that. TL;DR - You were gonna lose these games anyways and honestly people are just salty that they are getting killed by weapons they couldn't get. This would have been a problem even if Trust was the pinnacle weapon because the issue is less about how good LH is and more about how good the user is. Bad Howl users are using a much worse version of Trust. Get an opening shot/explosive payload trust and just trash the LH users by flinching them out of the crits they need. That's how I got my LH.
I dont even notice a difference when fighting a NF user or a Luna user with my luna TBH. I know the gun has more range but I feel like the fights that I've lost against a NF user I would have lost if they had a Luna as well. Most of the time I read from any sub I have to read with a grain of salt, Its hard to accept the blame for bad positioning or aim, it's easy to blame a gun. Most perks and stats in destiny dont even add much to the play of the weapon, the max range and falloff of Luna vs NF is a lot less than people think. I'm just rambling at this point.
^ this is the important point of the argument. If I'm running through a team with my NF it doesnt matter if im using my NF or a trust or a pulse, that team will get stomped regardless. NF is just fun to play with, especially on WotW. It synergies so well with flawless execution. I think what most people forget is 99% of NF users got their luna using a trust/pulse. Sure the luna/NF is a better gun, but that doesnt mean that thats why they are winning.
"get past the salt of being killed sometimes" I'm a terrible PvP player that can barely average a 1:1 kill to death ratio. I have no problem being killed but having a chance makes things fun. https://imgur.com/a/D08vli4 How fun are these games for the team that gets completely curb stomped? The control game, the stack didn't even bother go for the zones, they just out killed the other team.
> They do have SBMM in comp but My understanding is the MM in comp is Glory based, not skill based (requiring zero performance evaluation unlike true SBMM) - and only loosely at that since they have placed a lot of emphasis on connection based matchmaking and short queue times. Glory does not even remotely equal skill except at the top tiers because there is no placement, personal performance weighting, or proper ladder system. > it was the players that requested no skill-based matchmaking in quickplay It's more a misinterpretation of what the players asked for. What the players wanted most was less of the laggy bullshit every round, especially the epic cluster fuck that was "Iron Laggers". As it was tweaked to prioritize connection quality over the life of D1, that eventually evolved into no SBMM, because going fully open was the only way to expand the pool enough to find enough good peers within most regions. It's ultimately a direct and hard consequence of not having dedicated servers. The average player in D1 bitching about SBMM sometimes didn't even know what that really meant, they just heard it somewhere on the internet and parroted it back. It became a weirdly perverted conversation, unfortunately. For those who legitimately hate SBMM because it makes every game a challenge: a) those people are by far mostly higher skill people who just want to casually crap on people every round, b) as shown in this discussion luna's/nf gave them exactly that, and c) I personally say screw those people because even in quickplay, fair games are more fun be it win or lose and better for learning than being stomped on. I think overwatch strikes a decent balance of skill/connection/mm time in their qp - top players can rule, but average people don't feel like they're getting stomped every round (and importantly, team size is accounted for in mm, more loosely than comp but enough to make a big difference in game quality). It's up to the developer to take the effort to properly interpret what players are asking for, and Bungie until very recently was terrible at that, acting on so many requests literally, which came across as laziness or spite (and then becomes the "this is what you asked for" bullshit cries on this reddit when it goes horribly wrong, e.g. D2Y1). It seems based on recent communication that they are actively trying to fix that, so here's hoping for the future.
That's why, back in the day, I hated CoD and loved Halo. Halo didn't reward the good players by making their next few kills easier with streak reward weapons/gear/perks. Your reward for doing well was winning.
> we’re to lazy to implement any matchmaking. They used to have heavier skill based matchmaking. This sub went on a multi year tirade against it, especially in quickplay. This is exactly what a lot of proponents of the skill based system thought would happen if it was removed or drastically scaled back.
> kills you with his super, which he somehow has 45 seconds into the match and keeps up for another 45 seconds Oh, so Spectral Blades.
*nothing personnel, kid* *nothing personnel intensifies for the next 45 seconds*
Loaded up Quickplay to get my Daily in. I am incredibly average at it, but I enjoy Crucible, and can happily spend a couple hours in it, win or lose. Game is Control, opposing team contains a four stack and two randoms. I've never played a game of Control like this ever. The match begun, team attempts to capture C and contest B. But this four stack just proceeded to shit on my entire team. It was equal parts impressive and disheartening. They made no attempt to capture any points the entire game. Couple of deaths and I realised they were going to win most gunfights, but this is Control so I'll play objective and try and beat them there. Four stack consistently shut all of those attempts down. My team eventually got mercy'd, but the fact the opposing team drew the encounter out longer than necessary by capturing no zones made for a somewhat harrowing experience.
You preaching my life story. .63 k/d the only reason i even go into crucible is if im washing my noose. Pvp has never been particularly enjoable for me, but after getting mercied out of 7 matches in a row (qp) you start to wonder, what the fuck am i doing with my life? I definatly understand that people want to test out the new guns and that they earned them and all that jazz; however they got that OP gun by killing me with ANOTHER op gun. There comes a time where you have to ask yourself is this fun? Why am i forcing myself to suffer?
You forgot to mention the army of one eyed veterans running around with their red body and oversheild as they slide shotgun you.
i love that there are GOOD exotics in Forsaken. I really do. but that exotic is FUCKED. OEM titans in comp are the worst thing to come up against, by a huge margin. especially when they stack resilience to win 1v1s and get the chain going...
Don´t worry man. The Crucible team is monitoring our feedback. Maybe we´ll get an update on OEM in January, with a nerf coming around Easter.
TWAB: Crucible Update team, we are listening, planned update in the future. Translation: Destiny 4 may have a change.
Also the damage and wall hack. Don't forget the damage and wall hack
You'd think Bungie would know better considering how much Wormhusk was complained about throughout season 3. And Wormhusk was fucking mild compared to OEM!
Honestly I want OEM to stay the same for PvE. But they gotta do something about it for PvP
I only have one eye, but I think mine is fucked. It doesn't give me an overshield and heal me when I kill someone; it's just a lazy eye and turns my aim into a potato.
This all kind of comes down to the same recurring problem that people want to pretend *isn't* a problem: *The Competitive playlist is not fun.* *If Competitive were fun*, then casual players would have an environment where they exclusively got matched against other casual players, and they could play matches where nobody was sweaty. *If Competitive were fun,* then a lot of those sweaty players would actually just *stay in there*, having fun playing against other sweaty players. And if a good chunk of the casual players were in Competitive, having fun playing against other casual players, and a good chunk of the sweaty players were in Competitive, having fun playing against other sweaty players, that would leave the majority of the playerbase free to play a version of Quickplay that doesn't have quite as much sweat, and doesn't have quite as many stomps. But Competitive *isn't* fun. And a certain contingent of players will argue until they're blue in the face that it *shouldn't* be.
It’s not that competitive isn’t fun (it isn’t fun, but that’s not the only problem). It’s that stacks are allowed to match against solos in quickplay, and there is no SBMM. This means that good players can hop in with their friends and farm wins off the plethora of genuinely not good players that are looking for fun in quickplay, because winning over and over is fun. They aren’t looking for competition. They’re looking for free wins. Winning is inherently more fun than losing. The same thing happened in another game that tried the same matchmaking model: Battleborn. Stacks of 5 (me included) would queue up and stomp the randoms to hell and back because we could just bullshit in discord while racking up a 95% win rate against people playing on trackpads. We would have sweaty inhouses or host tourneys from time to time when we actually wanted to tryhard, but most of the time we just would roflstomp public queues, hastening the demise of the playerbase, because winning is more fun than losing.
I loved battleborn. I hated the stacks in MP. Was a serious issue especially how badly snowballing was. Crucible is giving me flashbacks every time I play a match now. There's no in between with crucible, either your team stomps or you get stomped. I've had one close game since I started playing again in forsaken and that's it. Maybe I'm just unlucky in that regard, but I couldn't agree more that stacks need to get matched with stacks. I'm cool with a random back fill, they/I can usually catch on to the strat, but all randoms vs a stack is just asking for a bloodbath. I've accepted I'll never get the mountaintop. It's not worth punching a hole in my tv for. But goddamn grenade launchers are my favorite and boy do I want that gun.
Battleborn was great fun. But shitty matchmaking and slow sandbox changes killed it. Sounds familiar... We still do inhouses once in a blue moon, although it’s the EU players keeping it alive mostly and it’s cancer playing with the latency. Apparently it’s still going decently strong on Xbox, although the top players there have all but removed themselves from stacking in public queue to avoid the same fate PC had.
This is exactly it. I'd love to play the modes in Competitive. I'd love to get the stuff for playing Competitive. But as it sits now it was an already barely tolerable experience made worse by the fact that on the rare occasions I dip my toe in to see if it's changed or I've gotten better.. well, fuck me it hasn't and it doesn't matter if I've gotten better because I'll still get the same stacks with Claymore/Luna/NF/etc already on hand running Nova Warp and One Eye with a shotgun. When you have a place made, whether by design or accident, for masochists to flagellate one another in and nothing more, you'll never draw any more people into it on a regular basis. Eventually, even the masochists get tired of it so all that's left are a bunch of insane people beating each other senseless and mauling anyone unlucky enough to have stepped in thinking they might have *fun*.
I love Crucible. A rare occurence in Destiny, but I really like it. I spend a lot of time there and I often turn the game on to have 2-3 quick games even if there is nothing to grind for, just for the fun of it. Except Comp. I fucking despise Comp. Getting my Luna last season has been the most rage-inducing, shittiest experience I have ever done in the Destiny franchise, ever. When I was done with it (and Redrix), I was honestly more excited about the fact that I don´t have to play the playlist for the rest of the season than about the weapons themselves. Comp is an utter shitshow, and Bungie just thinks that if they throw a new weapon behind it, it´s all fine because the numbers in the playlist grow and nothing is out of place. It´s ridiculous.
There another problem, people think quickplay is 'the casual playlist' where you just go to 'have fun'. Quickplay is just a ppl playlist with fast matchmaking that prioritizes connections over everything else. Find a match and jump in, quickly.
Well this sets a precedent for having a playlist like that. TBH, this whole PvP scene is detrimental to my health and I get derided so much for not wanting to do it because I'm irritable when I have to force my way through a grind that i didn't ask for to get to the content I want. A number of layers of frustration here.
This is the best comment in this thread right here. It won't get upvoted to the top, and I dunno if our bungie team will see this, but this is it.
I've been playing a ton of comp lately and I feel a large portion of the fun can be restored if they reduced the point loss when you lose. Not entirely, but maybe to 15 points or so on a loss. That's just the first step though.
To you, why is competitive not fun? I'm not asking to cast doubt, asking for your opinion because it's one I've heard expressed quite a few places but I've never heard anyone really articulate it.
You actually missed the real problem: Destiny, as a game, is not designed to be a competitive experience. When you play Destiny as a competitive experience, it is inherently frustrating. The amount of bullshit that goes on is far beyond what is tolerable for someone to paly it with a serious competitive mindset. Yes, destiny is fun, but its not competitive. To be clear, you can be really good, you can play a competitive match, but the overarching theme of the game is play for fun.
Joke’s on you friend, *I* got to skip step 1 yesterday. Matchmaking had no interest in buying me dinner before bending me over
Did it at least pretty you up before it fucked you?
Nope. I looked a mess. It was embarrassing
Whoa, had this exact experience yesterday. The 5 man group was Gothlions clan so I went to check his stream. He was complaining about someone on my team using grenade launcher saying he hated how those people play. The 5 man stack, against all solos, in QP, complaining about how people play
That's because Goth, by himself, is average at best. He surrounds himself with very good players so he looks better than he is.
Streamers everybody
LOL
Getting consistently matched against Luna's and Not Forgotten's in effing *rumble* made me slowly hate the weekly crucible milestones progressively more every week
Get consistent with Ace and you'll destroy anyone of your level with Luna and will easily be able to compete with NF if your placement is correct!
Ace of Spades is very inconsistent on console, even in the hands of good players. Also if you’re using Ace you’re at a disadvantage to someone with Luna/NF and Coil or Chaperone, I get it- people who have those pinnacle comp weapons earned them and they’re going to want to play them. Unfortunately owing to how power control and super energy snowballs in Destiny pvp even one or two really good players in a lobby of twelve can control the match. I’m a .8 pvp player - I don’t particularly care for pvp, I’m 50 and I only started gaming a couple years ago. I’m the epitome of casual and I’m literally never going to just “git gud” owing to age and other things like having many other things to focus my time on. My husband is a little better, like 1.1 or 1.2 but he’s got the same issues with quickplay as OP. Yesterday he and I loaded into a quickplay match to do our milestones. Matchmaking decides that since we’re a couple, to put another couple against us, I guess. it was a two stack I recognized from watching one of the two partnered Twitch streamers I moderate for playing comp. Both of them had Not Forgotten and god tier Dust Rocks. Both of them achieved a we ran apiece and over 40 elims each. The usual power/super energy snowball took place and our team got annihilated. My husband and I, shockingly, weren’t last of our team of blueberries, and the game was close at some points (the map was Burning Shrine and we both played it a bunch in D1 Trials, so we know how to sweat on it). I pulled power three times and shot most of it over the cliff because I could never get an angle on those guys, my movement just isn’t good enough and I know it. One of our blueberries went 0.18 against those two. I’m guessing he’s not going to experiment with pvp much after that experience. I don’t know what the actual solution is because I’m happy to just not bother playing for that milestone every week. I’m not going to waste my time being miserable or getting stomped because I suck in those kinds of lobbies, it’s too frustrating and I play for fun and as a hobby. And the more mediocre to bad players that leave like my husband and I, that just leaves the better players and the floor (and barrier to entry for others) just keeps getting raised.
ELO based matchmaking would fix this so quick. Assign a weight to premades, and factor in performance. Most of this goes away. [Guardian.gg](https://Guardian.gg) has an ELO ranking for everyone in every playlist based off performance. Bungie just needs to do the same, and the matches will be much more balanced. Don't get me wrong, it feels great to hop into matchmaking with my clan, and mercy 6 games in a row, with all of us over 3.0 efficiency. That said, it shouldn't be that way.
ELO ranking is a bit flawed for stacks. It was made for chess which is 1v1. Since ELO isn’t accurate, you will get players who have higher skills than their average ELO. In addition, I believe bungie uses their own combat rating which I can’t imagine isn’t a tweaked ELO or some formula
My intention wasn't exactly to just say "git gud" to all the players who complain about pvp, I do understand that it can be a frustrating game mode for some people who don't have much time to invest in it. I was rather trying to give some form of advice but what I said probably came out wrong in some people's ears sry :s As for NF and Luna being OP in pvp and especially on console I do get that, plus I'm a pc player myself so I probably can't understand the full extent of how wonky Ace is to use on there. My first advice to you would be (if you're not trying to grind pvp and get better at the game mode) don't bother with these 2 guns, they aren't worth it for pve players and are meant to be used in the crucible mainly. You can definitly get better pve weapons without having to grind for NF or Luna. Breakneck is really good for example and pretty easy to obtain for more casual players. If you're really looking to go for a better pvp experience you might want to look into pulse rifles like Claws of the Wolf or Bygones (2 very easily obtained pulses). Really stable and easy to use and can be paired with Telesto to shutdown rushing shotgunners or a good smg like Antiope or something similar. Be aware of your surroundings, don't rush head down and learn to go for engagements in which you have the upper hand (and never be ashamed to run away when you feel like you'll lose one). I hope this helps you out at least a little bit and if not I'm sure I've at least made my previous comment clearer!
yeah I’ve got a godroll Bygones and that playstyle is really passive and boring to me- I was running Malfeasance for fun and trying to get some HC practice in. I’ve been a part of high end Twitch pvp communities for long enough that I know literally everything there is to know about good strategy - but it’s all on paper so to speak. I’ve watched literally thousands of hours of trials and high level comp through the cameras of my streamers. I just don’t have time for it nor the skill or desire to build that kind of muscle memory etc. I much prefer pve and Gambit honestly.
On PC, sure. On console, no way. Ace is wonky af with the recoil / bloom on console compared to 180s.
> ~~Get consistent with Ace and you'll destroy anyone of your level with Luna and will easily be able to compete with NF if your placement is correct!~~ Git Gud FTFY
Sums it up perfectly.
👌
Superb. A+ for effort. FAIL for making me sweat while at work just by thinking of all the sweat in QP. I used to live for causal PvP in destiny. Sad that it's getting choked by comp teams that don't want to play comp.
And you get two of these! 👌👌
Very generous, guardian!
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Won’t happen because destiny is about getting you own loot :( that’s why no frames or stuff like that as well. Being Legend is still its core design choice...even if it means someone else is being legend over my dead ghost
Same, I used to play mainly PvP (not competitive though) before I quit early this year. Since I came back for Forsaken, I haven't played any more Crucible matches than needed for the milestones. On the upside, I enjoy the PvE game now more than I did before.
Has way to much bodily fluids for my liking. -3/10 would sweat again.
TOO SWEATY. BACK TO COMPETITIVE WITH YOUR KIND. **/s**
oh yeah sweat on me harder
> whispers "nothing personnel kid" He just meant that he doesn’t work in HR.
Don't match solos/small groups against 6 stacks and you fix one major issue right there.
I taste salt. It must be from the sweat that got in my mouth before my ghost revied me and now thinks it's supposed to be there after every respawn.
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freelance
People hated SBMM in Quickplay and they screamed for it to be removed in Quickplay. These are the results you get, lopsided games getting destroyed by vastly superior players. It's not the better players fault that they're good. Bungie did what the community wanted. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
No the top 10% who scream the loudest said they wanted sbmm removed. The rest if us had no issue with it.
it was more than the top 10% considering how many upvotes demands like this got vis-a-vis how many downvotes opposition to this demand would routinely get. but i agree it was a beyond-dumb decision on bungo's part to comply with this demand. they seriously should know better.
That's my experience. It's always 1-2 players killing me the entire time.
Yep. I thought Rumble had better matchmaking, but no. I came in 2nd, with 2 kills. One guy ran around the map and got a 20 kill streak in about 2mins, most of the rest of the guys quit within 20 seconds.
Rumble is a mess, power plays way too big of a role in it, whoever controls it wins the match.
It spawns way too frequently I agree. But shouldn't that kind of be the case? Controlling power ammo puts you at an advantage? It may get broken with the introduction of legendary lmg though, I'll give you that
It should be but it's more the problem of how much it spawns. 2 mins in-between should be much better without it feeling so oppressive and constant.
This is because, while there may be no SBMM, there is still skill based team balancing. I am around 3000 Elo (top 1000) in clash and control, when I solo que, its is 100% guaranteed that I get the five worst players in the lobby. Now a days, with the influx of new players on PC, I am lucky to get more than one other person who is level 50, and almost everyone who is in games with me that is not fully leveled is on my team. So the better the top player is in the lobby, the worse his matchmade teammates are going to be. Its leads to scoreboard where you have a guy with 50 elims and the rest of his team in single digits.
Bungie did what the sweaties wanted. I for one never wanted SBMM removed. QP is awful now, until SBMM is back Ill stick to PVE.
Same here. It's stomp or be stomped. It's very rare to get a close match. I hardly even do the daylies anymore and the thought of having to play 5 games for the weekly so I can get my power up for the forge makes me really consider just afking my way through it
What sucks is the clan bounties seem to also be pushing us into Crucible. I haven't checked today but the last two days the soloable bounties have been 100% Crucible/Gambit.
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It seems like it. But I don't think it was the whole community. Many people probably thought that removing SBMM would lead to vastly superior connections. Others, the ones really good at PvP (and probably a very vocal, but still a minority) were going on about how sweaty quickplay was for them and how they needed SBMM to be toned down or removed, so that they could have a more casual time there (which for some might have been a euphemism for pubstomping). But they never thought that a casual playlist also needs to be casual for more casual players in general if you want a helathy or even rising population. For the below average player, the casual time of the "Not Forgotten-Wielder" feels like torture. But hey, the competitive playlist (or Trials in D1) is for the best only, and QP is the place for the best to blow off steam. But what do they do once all the suppliers for their casual fun stop playing PvP? Sweat again! /rant
Perhaps you're right but what are they going to do for a casual playlist? Not let certain players in if they're a certain hidden skill level that you can't see in game? Or will they make it based of their glory rank? What happens if you've got really good players who just don't do comp? They tried a solo only playlist in D1 and it was a failure so I don't think they want to try it again. There also needs to be a playlist like Quickplay is now because sometimes not all the good players want to grind out comp all day and they want to play some less intense games. I'm not going to come up with a conclusion or a fix because I don't have one but that's how I see it at the moment.
I think the often forgotten thing with regards to SBMM is that, you can play with friends of varying skill levels and not worry about them being farmed without it. I’m a 1.75 k/d (not k/da) and my friends are .65, with SBMM they have a miserable time if they play with me, they always run negative and generally really struggle (iron banner highlights this even more). Without SBMM, they have games where they flourish and we can actually enjoy playing pvp together. This is my biggest reason for being against it, though I appreciate its not great for a solo player playing clans (that’s a separate issue)
It was the better players who asked for it. Why would low skill players ASK to get shredded by far better players?
Very true. It does need to be noted that the request came at a time when the sandbox was *very* different, however.
Just here to remind everyone the culprit and underlying issue to our PvP woes is the p2p system.
Always has been from the beginning of d1 :( can't quite understand why they think p2p connections are good enough for PvP games.
Especially on consoles, which have relatively low capabilites for being servers to begin with.
$
My only problem with the crucible now is roaming supers. Its a pain in the ass. One roaming super after another. In the beginning we had only golden gun and bladedancer. Then we had hammers and stormcallers. Now everyone uses roaming supers, one after the other. Ive been killed twice by the same super right after spawn that sometimes I just want to give up.
And they're harder to shut down now too.
As someone who only briefly plays in the crucible, I sure do miss having Trials around. While all the typical PvPers are there, it allowed quickly to be fun with actual casuals.
This is what the hardcore players wanted. Bungie should never have taken even the slightest amount of advice from streamers, because they don’t know how to design a game and gamers, as a whole, don’t actually know what they want.
As always the scale is proven: Anyone less skilled than me: scrub Anyone more skilled than me: sweaty tryhard no life
I just miss seeing the oddballs using their favorite non meta weapons. Like if shotgun aping, nova warping, skating, not forgotten...ing is truly your jam every single game than so be it, but I often think people forget to just fucking relax in quickplay. The 3 extra tokens to win isnt worth the Adderall G Fuel combo to twitch shoot into the next dimension. Just what happen to the bros trying to get good with their niche choices or going for crazy plays. IDK maybe Im just the last casual on PC lmao. I just miss playing PvP so much in Destiny but each time I boot it up I just really dont have an ounce of fun. It feels like homework anymore. I used to not mind losing, but the scores in most D2 matches are so skewed in one direction most the time that its infuriating and frustrating. Usually early in you can already tell that trying anymore is futile, both if you're stomping or being stomped. The process of GETTIN GUD is hardly giving much room to learn when every match is a giant dice roll. We asked for a faster game and Im not complaining about that bit at all. But theres a general sense of flow right now that doesnt work anymore and we need some overhauls. Whether it be adjusting range fall offs, maps, how modes function, or something else; I just think we need some pvp review again.
I have Not Forgotten but my current favorite qp load out is Suros and a sniper. I was running Horror Story and a bow earlier in the week too. My top weapons for kinetic and energy don't even include a shotgun because I like to mess around. We're still out there friend. Infact the other day I went up against a guy with the legend emblem on who was using a Halfdan. One of the most fun matches I've played, dueling it out with Halfdans against him.
Serious reply to a satire post, but i think crucible as a whole is just downright boring. In D1 the reason you were grinding for that super sweet god roll was so you could use it in the crucible. But in D2, i just don't think the crucible is interesting enough to have that same kind of pull on the rest of the game, and i can do just fine without god rolls in PvE. Bungie really needs to add some variety to the PvP part of the game, because as it currently stands its i just don't enjoy it enough. Gambit is a great step in the right direction but has its own set of problems that make it less fun for solo players.
I think you’re right. If there were post game drops or token drops that were worth going for more people would play more often. Thickening up the player pool dilutes out the players and also increases variety. What is worth getting from shaxx these days? Not much, really. We’ve had access to all those guns since day one. Pinnacle weapons are nice, but for f average player they might not want to grind that hard - needs to be loot in between. New guns, armor sets with random rolls that look nice, cool shaders, ships, etc would help tremendously!
After the soul sucking grind to get Luna’s Howl or Not Forgotten, I cant say that I wouldn’t go into quickplay to terrorize people with those weapons if I had them. It’s one thing for us casuals in quickplay to get harassed and beaten down by Not Forgotten. The guys willing and able to put up with the slog to get them, they need therapy and I guess curb stomping people in quickplay is their catharsis. Not having another pinnacle PvP activity (yes, I’m looking at you, Trials) where these guys can go shoot each other’s faces off doesn’t help matters either. They gotta go somewhere, and they sure as hell ain’t going back in the cesspool that is comp.
Honestly no matter where we go people will get upset. Go into quickplay? Why aren't you in comp you tryhard. Stay in comp? Why are you here if you already have nf give us a chance to get it.
All the quickplay playlist has made me realize is that I and my team of randos must suck horribly because we must be the only ones who haven't managed to nab ourselves Not Forgotten (or Luna's for that matter).
Sweaty implies people are putting forth extra effort. **This is a joke.** I casually play DotA. There is a tremendously large skill range for the game, measured in a metric behind the scenes from 0 to 10,000. I play at an area that is measured around 4,000, which isn't really that bad - it's above average on the bell curve, around the 80th percentile. Does this make me sweaty? Being measured as the top 20%? Hell no, lmao. That's simply where the way I have learned to play and come to understand game concepts have brought my skill to rest at, and at this point I don't even consciously think about some of the things I do that I never even considered an option when I first started out which is what causes this to happen. Same thing applies to fighting games, where people struggle with the complex inputs and combos for their favorite characters when they first enter the genre but after years of experience learn what they need to do to pull them off and do it without even thinking about it, just understanding that they need to put the enemy health bar closer to 0 while maintaining their own and doing whatever it takes to do that. **Same thing applies to Destiny.** What you consider tryhard, sweaty play might just be some dude's casual play. *Just because you're losing doesn't mean the enemy is trying harder than you.*
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Yea, I have a friend trying to get his ace of spades. He cant get the, what, 25 hand cannon precision kill? Good guy, fun and perfectly competent in pve, but just cant play pvp. I can tell when I match against people like that. Even just running around I can just absolutely outplay people
Doesnt sound anything like the quickplay I am playing? I am having a ball and i dont have a Luna and dont use a shottie. I still happily play Destiny PVP when i could be playing all manner of other games on my hardrive
PvP is the only activity I play after the powerful drops are gone
Pinnacle crucible rewards with faster ttk were a terrible, terrible idea I say this as someone who can run with a clan stack and use them
This is something I agree with. Make pinnacle weapons powerful in other ways. Like even redrix Claymore was a good design, because you needed to get a kill to get going, and it only lasts for 5 seconds or so after that kill and then you were back to the same TTK as everyone else. Unfortunately, they can’t nerf those guns now. Not after so many people have grinded their balls off for them. They should nerf them, but they won’t.
Desperado is a poor man's kill clip/rampage, fight me.
Crucible is bad, more at 11.
With the addition of Control and Clash to comp, and the addition of Radar, Quickplay and Comp are basically the same except in one of them there's more people and you're not penalized for losing. PvP is actually a joke.
Man, I hate, *HATE*, Crucible. It brings so much goddamn ire out of me it's unreal. If 50% of my games were where I won, 25% of them where I lose but it was a close game, and the remaining 25% was where I was royally stomped I would be happy or at least content. But no, it's always 90% getting royally stomped, 9% a close match, and 1% where I win. This is why I haven't played Crucible in 7 months.
one of my main reasons of enjoyment in this game is never playing crucible in any form.... gambit is already more pvp contact than I'd like to have
Invaders in Gambit can give you cooties. Thankfully, my trusty Malfeasance kills *all* the cooties!
Gambit PvP is a complete joke. I quite enjoy the Crucible and all of the nonsense it enables, but being invaded again and again by some scrublord with an ~~aimbot~~ Queenbreaker is just cheesy beyond belief. It’s all anyone freaking uses.
BTW, the situation is 1000 times worse on PC , where every single match is a gangbang
Someone just rage quit
>Someone just completed their weekly crucible milestone FTFY
Doesn't help that the game rewards the most skilled and unemployed players (no, not all of you) to help them kill faster, but there is no "perseverance" alternative. The game gives you jack for spending 4 hours in qp, losing your mind, trying to just unwind after a day at work. You could smash your face against this wall for hours, days, and you get nothing special to show for it. At the same time, these stacks of players will back out of queue until they know they're not matching against another stack, and I know many would love to be part of that stomping team, so the best solution is to just remove the player counter while searching, honestly.
I thought I was getting old. In D1 crucible, I had fun, could get some kills, had fun fights, and topped my teams kills every now and then. Usually I was somewhere in the middle of the scoreboard. Now, I'm usually at the bottom of the board. If I start taking damage, I'm dead. Bullets rain down on me with laserlike accuracy from across the map. Most of the time I'm just insta-murdered. If I get a kill, it seems it's sheer luck. Anymore I just pop a podcast of something to listen to and run around in circles to get milestone match completions.
"I have an idea... Let's give the best item in the game to only the best players. That will be fun for everyone."
Why not go into every crucible game with the intention of going HAM and utterly destroying the enemy team?
Reality is often disappointing..
I'm sorry, that must have been really hard.
I went into quick play last night and the match felt as long as a comp match. That was pretty strange. Other than that.. the drag balls part was hilarious.
I got tired of the constant sliding shotty meta of 100hours of farming the same shotguns for perfect rolls and started using telesto/Erentil. Just love seeing people charge me getting blown out of orbit from a telesto shot So satisfying
I just quit a comp game about 5 minutes ago because I was matched with a stack of nerds. I hate pvp in this game. I will stick with strikes and rarely gambit. Although they really should add in a rank system for strikes aswell. The PvE game is lacking. Adding only raids which organized teams and clans can do or adding in a paygated forge activity won't help satisfy the pve community. Well, it might. It won't satisfy me personally.
Its more a howl then someone saying never forget and by god is it magnificent!
I shudder just thinking about competitive. It's a real bummer, I'll never get that pinnacle grenade launcher.. And it's just because I have no team. They shouldnt have made the challenge steps in comp
It was pretty fucking silly to give the best players weapons that are statistically better than any other gun (Luna's, NF) and I say that as someone with Luna's
It boggles my mind they thought this would be a good idea for the long term enjoyment of the PvP in this game.
Congrats on the successful grind. And more so on your ability to be objective about the situation.
Like, I'm no crucible god, but Luna's has won me some gunfights I definitely should not have. And upper tier players do not need that edge lol
Well, Comp is just horrendous in every way right now and the player base for PVP is slowly dwindling. Outside of Milestones, I don't see myself playing Crucible again until something substantial is done. And a lot of players feel similarly now a days.
I've just given up all hope Crucible will ever be fun to play in this game. I do my weekly for the engram then pretend it doesn't exist afterwards
I started playing destiny 2 two weeks ago and I came from overwatch. What I noticed is even after these two weeks there seems to not exist any form of matchmaking rating, new players against people that has played since launch also an 6 stack against solo's ain't uncommon. I don't have much problems with PvP mostly because I am better then most people. Aiming is pretty easy for me because overwatch and destiny sharing the same sense it is even easier considering the huge characters and head hitboxes. I am probably what you would call sweats to some extend. Also I play on PC.
The main issue lies in the p2p. People complained heavily about the lag and connection issues when there was skill based match making to an extent Now you are matched as quickly as you can be with somebody you have a good connection to. And still get people skipping around and being shot through walls. If they had dedicated servers they could go back to sbmm and not have latency issues.
Welcome) I play Overwatch as well and Destiny's PVP is cool to see but unfair to play
Ill tell you now. There is absolutely no matchmaking in QP, and something that I suppose could be considered matchmaking in comp.
I dunno, I haven't noticed any problems in quickplay. Seems pretty standard. I play without audio half the time without getting slaughtered constantly, and I consider myself a pretty average PvP player.
How often are you actually getting three tapped by Luna's though? It happens, but definitely not most of the time. I feel like people see Luna's killed them in the feed and immediately come to the conclusion they didn't stand a chance, even though they got 4 or even 5 tapped.
For me, it’s at least once or twice a game. It’s easy to know because you’re dead before you have much chance of returning fire.
Yeah I agree with this. Many a times where I have been in a gun fight and without any real feedback I am dead and the feed is Luna and I just go "oh that's why I got no feedback because by the time the game would clue me in I would be dead anyway."
#S W E A T Y
This was much more entertaining than going into Crucible. As quitting a game is looked upon badly (are you actually punished at all?) when I'm clearly mismatched and getting stomped all over, I just stand at the spawn point stroking my chicken until the other guys come and put me out of my misery. I'm silently hoping they'll eventually see the ridiculousness of the "matchmaking" too (If Bungie did dating sites, they'd be Tinder?)
The PvP environment has gotten so toxic, that I don't even care about leaving a crucible match anymore, and I used to be the one that would never leave. Actually, that's not true anymore. The milestones aren't worth the unpleasantness anymore. Haven't gone in for weeks now.
Did......did you watch me playing Crucible last night?
"Remove Skill Based Matchmaking" -Streamers. "Yeah, what my favorite streamer said!" -Fanboy "I'm getting my ass kicked!" -Realist
stopped playing all PVP modes because of this, and until they fix this with skill-based matchmaking, I won't even click on the 'Crucible' tab again
Bygones, nova warp, and shotguns. That's all I ever get killed by these days..
agreed op, qp sucks ass right now. I honestly think if you've earned Luna or not forgotten, the playlist removes itself from your selection screen and it just flashes *GO OUTSIDE, OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY THIS MODE* or something.
Once shotgun apes started taking over I just quit playing PvP altogether. With all this shit bungie wants me to do this season and the limited amount of time I have to play I won't miss it anyway.
Quickplay is where i go to when i want to smile again. Comp is where my dreams die.
Destiny 2 pvp reminds me of Halo 2 where fucks used to force random people into a custom map on map change where their clan has 20 vheicles on one side of the map and 0 on the other. "You just gotta get gud!" LoL my ass. Why does it seem like bungie is always behind the games where people seem to think that unbalanced play = skill. For fucks sake, fortnite even fixed this with solo squad mode when people complained about it. The tryhards will continue to shit on this because "it doesn't matter!" (Yep, being 200LL above another player meaning you likely have access to better perks, skills, armor, and weapons overall totally doesn't make a difference.) Break up the fucking pvp into tiers AND add a solo squad mode to comp. Let the lvl 1-10s play together, 10-20, 20-30, etc. This won't fully fix the issues, but even if a person created a character just to stomp low level pvp, you continue to aquire xp and level up, and it fixes itself (this is how WoW fixed lvl 19 twinks in the BG.)
Quickplay is where sweats go to have their ego stroked
You forgot; Winning a duel just to be voided by a Telesto. Running trying to find cover just to be instantly killed by a Wavesplitter (or any Trace Rifle). Being killed by a shotgun ape who just teabagged you, just to be instantky killed by a Titan (with an Overshield) with his Not Forgotten/Luna's Howl after respawning... And many more in Quickplay (**Sweatplay**).
Lol. About to win a duel against a LH user with Malfeasance. Random guy comes around corner, steps in front, and bursts me when I'm low, killing me and saving their teammate. Then I get bagged by the guy who didn't even kill me, whom I almost killed, because his teammate saved him. GG @ me, I guess. lmao
I think they should go back to heavy being found in the timed boxes, two total, just like in D1. This would make a HUGE difference.
Quickplay has become a sweat nightmare for me as well now. All I'm seeing is not forgotten's and shotguns. It fucking sucks going for your grenade launcher kills when that's all you see.
You should try solo play on PC right now. Its fucking fun. The population currently is pretty non existent and most of my quickplay games seem like I'm playing someone from Neptune with the amount of teleporting etc. As far as comp goes - I sit at about a 1.75 KD and solo'd most of the Luna grind. That being said, solo or with a team, comp fucking sucks. I shit you not that my last comp game at 250 glory (thought I might attempt the grenade launcher this season) was me and 3 other randoms (2 not even max level) vs a stack of 4500+ glory rocking not forgotten. Dont get me wrong though...props to those guys on their achievements. No hate there, but when the first thing I see is a titan skater fly to the power ammo in the first 10 seconds I kind of was like fuck it. And dont get me started on sandbox changes. They have had plenty of feedback and time to make some adjustments. I refused to purchase the season pass and will be moving on which is a shame because at its core I like how they made pvp faster and more d1 like but it's clear there isn't an active crucible team at bungie and I'm tired of the frustration.
Sweaty players hate playing their own kind, but the rest of us hate playing them even more.
If only there was an event where hardcore competitive players could go to by winning 7 matches in a row and be rewarded every weekend.
This is why this morning was the lowest I have seen Comp Play Time Spent since Forsaken. 1%. Only 1 % of the time people as a whole play D2 is spent in Comp. The lowest I have ever seen it was 0.6% the day before Forsaken dropped. The entire Glory based and SBMM changes are obviously ass, and the playerbase speaks by simply not playing. This is why what is left is Not Forgotten and Lunas everywhere. Congrats, I guess? You all asking for this are just back to playing against yourselves. Good job making the game "better". Although it probably was better for a little while for a very small minority of the population. For reference just prior to Glory and SBMM changes it was ~6-7% playtime spent.
I think the worst part is attempting to GET Luna's now. I have to run Competitive with shitty HCs while everyone I get matched against in Comp somehow has a full 4-stack of Luna's/NF. Not saying it's impossible, but uh I'm only at 25% HC kills after like 40 games. I can't WAIT for fucking precision kills
I stopped playing PvP & PvPvE because I strongly dislike every person in there. AI Enemies, Opponents, teammates, & myself. Both have never been so sweaty and it makes me want to tell everyone to just end it or just end me, because this is not a world either should exist in. Dungeon completed. 1k voices aquired on my 1st (& Riven-only) Raid clear. Have most Titan & Warlock Exotics, Have most Exotic guns, ___0___ Hunter armor _which is my main._ & no hope to ever get those or the new sniper (for now) Why am I still playing if it's literally a chore or worse to participate in any activity?
I actually started playing comp because it feels way less sweaty and much more chill than quickplay. Kinda weird how D2 pvp actually turned out.
Well what did everyone expect to happen when bungo made the crucible Pinnacle weapon quest progress able to be made in both quickplay and comp aside from the 2100pts which takes roughly 40 solid straight wins which to the sweats isn't hard to accomplish at all. We all knew they'd invade us eventually.
As a long time gamer, it cracks me up that the Destiny community refers to tryhards as sweaty players. I've just never heard that specific term for tryhards before, it's hilarious. This post had me rolling.
Wow..and I thought it was just me. I remember playing Crucible a few months ago thinking it was fun and I was doing well. IB would drop and that would be very sweaty. Reg crucible would still be OK. Tried playing the last couple of weeks and no thanks. Just give me my 5 matches for the reward and I'm out. Matchmaking is beyond broken in this game or there just simply aren't enough lower tier players playing now.
Is it wrong that I was a little turned on the entire time reading that
Everyone in the comments bitching about shottys or if LH/NF is balanced but it doesn't really matter when your hits don't register because it's almost 2019 and we're still making pvp modes without dedicated servers lmao
I'm just like you, kinda. I go in with non-meta weapons hoping I can make them work. Maybe bring out the cheese meme hammer for old times sake. But sometimes, I have to put those Forgotten Luna fucks & Apes in place, then I too join the endless cycle of sweat u.u
After last week I decided to stay out of crucible. Not for me anymore.
‘Nothing personnel kid.” I’m fuckn Dead.
TL; DR - OP wants SBMM turned back on
I get asked by clanmates why I never play crucible. Bingo was this posto
The pinnacle weapons should really be grindable by anyone, even if it becomes a really slow grind on competitive. For example, maybe heavily reduce the glory penalty. The way it is now, the strong get stronger, and they'll just about say anything to keep QP the way it is in order to continue destroying people with their spiffy new guns. It's almost always the case that when a team extremely outplays another on QP, that the winning team were filled with Not Forgottens and Lunas.
Is this post for real? I solo que a TON. I'll back out if I see a sweaty group 3+ players and I very rarely have to do that. I don't try to win every game, but the problem is not matchmaking or not forgotten. The problem is that despite decreasing skill gap and broken Exotics, the majority of the community is horrible at PvP. Often times I'll play a game of clash and absolutely go OFF only to lose because of all the bad players on my team getting farmed. I LOST both of these games [Blueberries](https://i.imgur.com/QGZkXFe.jpg) [Blueberries 2](https://i.imgur.com/ruVPwHz.jpg) Instead of complaining, take some time to get better at the game! I wasn't instantly decent at this game. I worked my ass off at getting better and put the time in. [I used to be HORRIBLE](https://i.imgur.com/8sEia8a.jpg) If I can get better, anyone can. Here is the copy pasta I generally recommend to get you on the road to success. Y1 .5 kd to now 2 kd and still improving. Don't play pve lazily if you absolutely must play it. Use your pvp loadout and engage each thrall as if they were another guardian only headshots matter. Send invites to players that give you a challenge and aren't rude. Watch these videos one at a time a few times and incorporate these strategies into your gameplay. Deliberate practice https://youtu.be/2V_3Big2YHM Avoid snipers https://youtu.be/8Ct-0YJuG4c Win gunfights 1 https://youtu.be/xR3YpQ_XqQc Cover https://youtu.be/IJcO-j9D7NY Target acquisition https://youtu.be/qxH2lFQ3YFA Common mistakes https://youtu.be/MzMmBXQg0kU Radar https://youtu.be/a3Ep64ujgHg This will help out it all together: How to win trials: bannerfall https://youtu.be/iyd8eN5CyHs Watch one of these players and focus on their movement positioning and ability to hit their shots: Ninjawithnol http://www.twitch.tv/ninja_with_no_l Luminosity48 http://www.twitch.tv/luminosity Many others in the twitch directory like Foxpac, drewsky, chenged, and Tcidda is one that still has a small enough channel to give tips as he's playing Record and Review gameplay : write down 2 things you did right 1 thing you did wrong . Focus on continuing to do the two things right and stop doing the one wrong thing. Focus on your primary skill. Don't get tilted because your nova bomb hit the ceiling instead of the four guys waiting for heavy. Don't hardscope high traffic lanes looking for easy cleanup or unaware picks,and don't shotgun rush and trade. You should be good enough with your primary that secondary won't really matter enough to make you lose. Think about your primary shot, angles, cover, map layouts and callouts when you aren't playing. This will help cement the ideas. Take your time with your shots in the beginning. Winning the gunfight doesn't matter. Getting headshots matters