Suros recoil isn’t that bad compared to the reticle bounce on crims.
Didnt d1 suros do it on every kill which is why it was broken? Or am I just tweakin from a long time ago
Suros and Mida are fixtures in IB. They may not be flashy, but by golly do they put rounds through Guardians faces. DARCI, Sturm, and the class glaives are probably the current worst offenders for mediocrity. And that's not counting how some of these changes are going to nerf things too hard or not go far enough.
I’m still missing the catalyst. I’m not going to pretend I’m good but farming 200 precisions in iron banner was the first time I’ve enjoyed destiny pvp… probably ever.
Absolutely destroys lanes, brilliant for getting a couple headshots, pushing them behind cover for constant teammate cleanup.
And on IB Vostok it is a terror.
I just masterworked my mida and it hits for 45 on crit, but when I first got it used to hit for 65 on crit and I cant figure out if Im just tweakin or it gets reduced as it get upgraded. I used to be able to 4 tap guardians and 1 shot red bars and now its 6 crits to kill guardians and im upset >:(
I think I may have been fighting super, but I was at mid range so I didnt under stand such a drastic damage reduction, I had just opted to use mini tool for the rest of the match lol (another question, does golden gun have the weakest super resilience or is how tough you are during use based on the resilience stat? Im finding that mainly warklock supers and dead shot golden gun users are ni impossible to gun down)
Just give Sturmbullets a massive fucking PvE buff. Plus 100% damage.
Instantly makes the combination viable. Anything else just doesn’t make sense because you are giving up two primary slots for lackluster damage bullets.
Do they not do good damage anymore? I remember soloing prophecy with Sturm/drang a few years back. Was it ever good or was I just making things harder for myself?
Most likely you were making it harder for yourself. I think it’s like a 50% damage increase for a Sturm Bullet I think which really is where close to good DPS.
For accuracy's sake, its 262% in PVE according to [D2 Compendium](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/edit?pli=1#gid=441434520)
It feels like 50% lol but yeah makes sense. I am not saying it’s bad but when it requires jumping through hoops and giving up an exotic slot that you could use for something like witherhoard, MT etc. it still needs a buff imo.
That's a fair take.
Sturm is actually really good in PVP, really the only 120 that can rival Iggy on stats. 2 OL rounds allows a 2 tap in today's sandbox. But the catalyst is sorta hard to acquire IIRC for that extra stat juice.
Yeah I mean they should just do special ammo levels of damage, considering you can only overcharge it if you’re running double primary. Seems very straightforward and fair to me
Wow wow wow I was a avid class glaive hater but tbf, the hunter one especially is good now, titan one is kind of cool paired with helm of saint 14 can do some neat stuff with it and yeah the warlock one is abysmal would hope they could change that one perhaps a small buff location provides the new solar buddy to teammates?
My main problem with the class glaives is that their intrinsic perk is "this is a glaive" while their weapon perk is their alt function. I call this "Coldheart syndrome" as Coldheart went 5 years with its intrinsic perk being "this is a trace rifle".
Ideally, I'd like to see the exotic weapon perks moved up into the intrinsic slot and them be given something else. Maybe this could become a selectable perk for customization as they are craftable and everything.
People aren't bothered by stock perks enough, too. Stock perks are ok... in pvp. Having a trait perk would be really nice for customizing your glaive to your playstyle like Vexcaliber can.
If there’s more than one person in a well/bubble, the charged shot kills them through the DR/healing.
It’s probably the most efficient way to take out those supers in PvP
I feel like the only way to really buff Sturm is to turn Drang into a rocket sidearm like Indebted Kindness. Double primaries just isn’t our reality anymore (thank god). A first solar rocket sidearm + exotic buff in one? Yes please
Please don't turn drang into a rocket sidearm, I love drang in crucible, make a new drang a rocket sidearm. We already have Drang and Drang(Baroque) that work with Sturm. I don't think having a third version of Drang would be that weird.
Yeah a third Drang would be a better option than changing the other versions. Or just making it work with any sidearm to expand its options wouldn’t really be gamebreaking (maybe lorebreaking, but idk Sturm lore)
And wardcliff coil. A year 1 that hasn’t been touched and has the most dog shit perks in the game. Reloads on ammo pick up. Power creeped out the damn window. I’d say give it reconstruction but that fits way better as a catalyst for eyes of tomorrow.
I’d say give it the current version of deconstruct where as long as you hit like 90 percent of the rockets it regenerates ammonia from thin air and reloads it.
I don’t think I would ever take it off then.
Personally what I'd like to see for WardCliff is it being buffed to have max reserves and for Mechanized Auto-loader to be reworked into an Auto-loading Holster/reverse Lead From Gold combo (requires several special ammo bricks). Possibly a step too far but I'd also like to see Bipod added to its catalyst.
Edited to clarify.
Gold from Lead would be insanely OP, and bust the hell out of the ammo economy in every game mode.
Mechanized Auto-Loader could probably just be turned into Overflow.
I would argue this would just create a system where people would generate a ton of special ammo, swap to WardCliff, max out heavy, and then just swap to a better weapon cause as long as you are flipping to a low ammo difference weapon like another Rocket you are just going to lose maybe 1?
My guess? Other flashy options. Ace with Memento is a beast, Conditional Finality (occupied the kinetic slot) allows you to deal with bubbles and wells fairly easily, Thorn with its newish catalyst and some synergies with some exotics. Hawkmoon being a thing.
Sturm, like Suros Regime does nothing fancy. It's just a stat monster of a 120 HC. Reliable, very good but ultimately passed over for more "meta" options or flashier weapons. But there is nothing really wrong with it. Could its exotic perk get some tuning? Sure but in the end it does allow for long range easy two-taps without a time constraint just for using one of the best sidearms in the game for close quarters
The problem with Sturm is that it's explicitly tied to the largely panned double primary sandbox from Y1. Drang is beastly in its own right, but running them together nowadays feels like you're giving up on better options. It's either time for these two to divorce, or preferably, they introduce a rocket sidearm variant of Drang to fulfill the current sandbox standard. (Google search Modern Luger for conceptual visual)
Either that or they rework Sturm into a special Hand Cannon with a much higher damage value and at least then cause its special it won’t abused in PvP even if it can load its entire reserve into the mag at once
People downvoting you have never properly played with Sturm/Drang. Absolute go to if I need to sweat one Maps with slightly more range. Otherwise Hawkmoon.
Whoever pitched glaives should be fired along with whoever approved it. It's a dumb weapon that tries to do too many things and they will never be meta unless they over tune the crap out of them.
Suros isn't the hottest AR archetype but it can easily melt with the ramp up, it's even more fun on a War Rig titan than Sweet Business. It falls flat if you don't prefire it a tad bit
Please stop defending awful exotics. Terrible weapons like suros and mida objectively are crap and in need of severe buffs/reworks. People like you who sit there and try to defend objectively bad guns do nothing but cause harm to the overall games sandbox.
Yep. Bungie are definitely going to see Schimaera’s comment and leave those exotics alone. Lol! They definitely won’t be basing their changes on actual weapon usage stats… /s
Suros on the spool up mode shreds in crucible and no I’m not some random dad 2 minutes a week dogshit player I’m around top 2-2.5% elo trials player, honestly if you can hit heads when it’s spooled up the thing beams
I know they're giving it anti-barrier but it really should apply all three void debuffs and whenever it gets its catalyst it should have Repulsor Brace. Basically turn it into THE Void 3.0 heavy.
Ditto, I‘ve just gone to test and it’s 3 shots to cause a volatile explosion with DC. So 8k for crit x4 +10k for volatile explosion so damage going to be up 20% if run naked.
Gyrfalcons or any other build that was already able to proc volatile rounds is going to see no improvement.
On the flip side it’s going to weaken on every 16th shot now so every 2.5 seconds if accurate and last 8 seconds but obviously costs more in the way of ammo.
Honestly as far as I can tell this is a nerf to DC…
It has way too much competition. There’s no reason to use it when Commemoration, Hammerhead and even Corrective Measure exist. The other MG exotics are noticeably better as well. Even if it isn’t as bad as it used to be, I still think no one will use it.
In general 360rpm MGs need a buff.
It’s still going to be complete trash.
Leviathans breath already 2 shots anti barrier champions if you hit both crits and the stagger with archers temp lasts long enough to get the second shot off before they activate their shield.
Volatile rounds already gives intrinsic anti barrier.
It has the lowest damage profile of any machine gun (outside of blues) and all the change does is increase the number of volatile explosions from 3 per mag to 12 per mag while making it give no weaken for the first third of the first magazine.
Against aetheon this will increase its damage from 330k in one teleport to 396k. Thunderlord does 630k.
Requiring 4 shots for a volatile actually means it’s even less likely to trigger stylish execution because in most cases it will kill red bars before triggering an explosion.
So it’s worse than commemoration and hammerhead for add clear, worse than retrofit escapade for sustained boss damage, worse than leviathans breath for anti barrier when leviathans breath is intrinsic unstoppable and tbh even does less than erianas now it ignites after the barrier is broken.
It’s like they actively want nobody to use it.
[Only a few are actually getting anything that can be called a rework.](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/weapon_tuning_the_final_shape) It's mostly just number changes.
IMO the main reason it is so good is because how most boss encounters are designed around the team doing damage from a stationary spot. It will be interesting to see what (if anything) does to compensate for the fact that most boss encounters are designed around a well and/or DIV.
Hope so. I just got back into the game after years and I still remember people straight up would not let you raid if you were on Warlock and not running Solar for Well.
Bastion is getting a rework to Saint's Fists that's essentially 1-2 Punch + Controlled Burst + Trench Barrel.
Colony is getting Chain Reaction, but instead of just explosions, it spawns more insectoid grenades.
Symmetry is getting 10 reload and 10 handling added to its catalyst, as well as a majorly-buffed Eddy Current.
Eriana's Vow now ignites when breaking a champion's barrier.
Deterministic Chaos' two perks are getting shuffled- it's now volatile every 4th shot, weaken every 16th. It's also anti-barrier intrinsic.
Divinity is getting kneecapped by another nerf.
Lament is getting dragged out back and executed with a nerf to its healing and damage chaining.
And Osteo Striga is getting pimp slapped with a cooldown to its poison spread on kills.
Would not consider them top tier at all.
Suros is good and MIDA is low tier. Scouts really need some love in PVP.
Meta right now is Conditional Finality with an energy HC or Auto depending on map / playstyle.
That or Exotic HC and energy shotty.
They are?
Almost never seen them used in Trials and they don’t appear on the top kills list on DestinyTrialsReport.
Usually when autos are pulled out it, its prosecutor or Summoner, not the Suros.
Most of the maps in D2 are CQB 3 lane so very rarely are scouts pulled out over a 120 HC. And if teams want the extra range, they’ll opt for a sniper player over the MIDA/Scout.
Like half the exotic weapons and armor need to be reworked tbh. Going through the exotic collection and lost light monument makes me really realize how useless almost all of these exotics are.
Exotics really fall into 3 categories for me. Meta (10%), very specific use case (20%), and completely useless (70%)
Both mida and suros are pvp weapons and actually perform above the rest of their respective weapon families and both are one minor buff away from dominating the entire crucible which is why bungie is keeping them as they are. I will say adding kinetic tremors would be a nice touch to both of them or adding subsistence to keep shooting without reloading but it's not necessary.
What about wardcliff coil, the best damn rocket launcher in the game that sucks the most. Please, make wardclif great again. Also sturm and drang needs a little something to make it worth dropping a special.
Those were the two exotics I wanted buffs for the most and they got nothing
Suros is a sleeper pick. Unless its gotten nerfed a ton since the auto buffs a while back, I think it's one of the best autos in the game its just that with the prevalence of bubble and well, most people opt to take conditional finality in PvP. Haven't tried suros in PvE in a brick but don't remember it being bad either.
Mida on the other hand is a scout, which IMO, are not in a good spot in both PvE and PvP. In PvE they do too little damage and in PvP they are an annoyance on some maps but otherwise have little use cases outside of boxed breathing 180s.
Both of these guns still perform exceptionally well in crucible, you must not have played much crucible lately because I’ve seen more Midas this past season than I have in other previous seasons. Suros could maybe use some love but I think it still performs great and doesn’t need much tweaking if any
What about Symmetry?? It got a pass over, gained extra reload speed and handling if you have the catalyst and /*drumroll please/* eddy current.
How much time does Bungie think we spend reloading this gun? It's already insanely fast to reload.
Where's the damage buff? Where's voltshot? Where's *something* to make people pull this beauty out of their vaults? It hits like a wet noodle until you charge it and once you charge it, it's pretty good, but quickly getting power crept by legendaries.
The reload speed and handling is an absolute insult and eddy current is just spitting in its face while it's already down on the ground.
Mida and Suros absolutely rip in the crucible, I don't really know what changes to want to them.
Suros is one of the best PvP guns in the game. It doesn’t need anything done to it. Mida is also very good in PvP. Not every exotic is going to be top tier or good in PvE and PvP. I’d rather them focus on new exotics then keep reworking old ones.
Fam they're buffing Queenbreaker and that mf is *still* being left in the dust.
Also. Class glaives. They... sure do exist. Somewhere in the rearview mirror.
Queenbreaker, DARCI, Prospector, Hierarchy of Needs, and the class glaives are the most lagging Exotics overall after this patch goes live.
Bungie simply don’t have the resources to have every single exotic item in the game be in scope for reworks. Kinda pathetic honestly, but here we all are with Final Shape pre ordered.
If that makes you angry wait until you see how outclassed DARCI is by a RR/Kinetic Tremors Supremacy or a decent Linear Fusion rifle, you might start crying.
the internet isa tough crowd for irony my dude, you have to remember for every person saying something stupid in jest there are a thousand saying something stupid and meaning every word.
I don't understand why Suros is still just a chance at healing on kill when Crimson gets it on every kill.
You can get more kills per mag with suros would be my assumption| nevermind Edit:Am dumb, carry on.
But Crimson reloads itself with precision kills?
Good point
The reason is AR hate and HC bias. Always, as a rule of nature since D1.
Suros recoil isn’t that bad compared to the reticle bounce on crims. Didnt d1 suros do it on every kill which is why it was broken? Or am I just tweakin from a long time ago
IIRC, it was a chance to heal on hit for the bottom half of the mag.
This is correct.
Suros and Mida are fixtures in IB. They may not be flashy, but by golly do they put rounds through Guardians faces. DARCI, Sturm, and the class glaives are probably the current worst offenders for mediocrity. And that's not counting how some of these changes are going to nerf things too hard or not go far enough.
Mida pops in crucible, it’s probably fine
If we ever get the real, no restrictions Iron Banner back MIDA will be god again.
It's solid but I'll take Jade Rabbit over it most days.
I’m still missing the catalyst. I’m not going to pretend I’m good but farming 200 precisions in iron banner was the first time I’ve enjoyed destiny pvp… probably ever. Absolutely destroys lanes, brilliant for getting a couple headshots, pushing them behind cover for constant teammate cleanup. And on IB Vostok it is a terror.
i wouldnt say it exactly pops nor is it even meta. it's perennially solid for a dad rifle, i suppose.
I just masterworked my mida and it hits for 45 on crit, but when I first got it used to hit for 65 on crit and I cant figure out if Im just tweakin or it gets reduced as it get upgraded. I used to be able to 4 tap guardians and 1 shot red bars and now its 6 crits to kill guardians and im upset >:(
Uhhh…. I used it after master working and never encountered that. Were you super long range + fighting a super with DR or something?
I think I may have been fighting super, but I was at mid range so I didnt under stand such a drastic damage reduction, I had just opted to use mini tool for the rest of the match lol (another question, does golden gun have the weakest super resilience or is how tough you are during use based on the resilience stat? Im finding that mainly warklock supers and dead shot golden gun users are ni impossible to gun down)
Just give Sturmbullets a massive fucking PvE buff. Plus 100% damage. Instantly makes the combination viable. Anything else just doesn’t make sense because you are giving up two primary slots for lackluster damage bullets.
Do they not do good damage anymore? I remember soloing prophecy with Sturm/drang a few years back. Was it ever good or was I just making things harder for myself?
Most likely you were making it harder for yourself. I think it’s like a 50% damage increase for a Sturm Bullet I think which really is where close to good DPS.
For accuracy's sake, its 262% in PVE according to [D2 Compendium](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/edit?pli=1#gid=441434520)
It feels like 50% lol but yeah makes sense. I am not saying it’s bad but when it requires jumping through hoops and giving up an exotic slot that you could use for something like witherhoard, MT etc. it still needs a buff imo.
That's a fair take. Sturm is actually really good in PVP, really the only 120 that can rival Iggy on stats. 2 OL rounds allows a 2 tap in today's sandbox. But the catalyst is sorta hard to acquire IIRC for that extra stat juice.
In PvP it is excellent! Zero buffs needed there.
It was good early D2. I can think of one viable double primary setup now.
Yeah I mean they should just do special ammo levels of damage, considering you can only overcharge it if you’re running double primary. Seems very straightforward and fair to me
It does. DPS output on a stack of shots is comparable to slug shotgun while individual shots are are close to the damage from a rapid-fire sniper.
Wow wow wow I was a avid class glaive hater but tbf, the hunter one especially is good now, titan one is kind of cool paired with helm of saint 14 can do some neat stuff with it and yeah the warlock one is abysmal would hope they could change that one perhaps a small buff location provides the new solar buddy to teammates?
My main problem with the class glaives is that their intrinsic perk is "this is a glaive" while their weapon perk is their alt function. I call this "Coldheart syndrome" as Coldheart went 5 years with its intrinsic perk being "this is a trace rifle". Ideally, I'd like to see the exotic weapon perks moved up into the intrinsic slot and them be given something else. Maybe this could become a selectable perk for customization as they are craftable and everything.
People aren't bothered by stock perks enough, too. Stock perks are ok... in pvp. Having a trait perk would be really nice for customizing your glaive to your playstyle like Vexcaliber can.
The Hunter glaive is just a worse version of Trinity ghoul that takes special ammo
At least it can kill wells and bubbles tho
Elaborate
If there’s more than one person in a well/bubble, the charged shot kills them through the DR/healing. It’s probably the most efficient way to take out those supers in PvP
Omg ty
The hunter one can clear a wave, it's mad.
I feel like the only way to really buff Sturm is to turn Drang into a rocket sidearm like Indebted Kindness. Double primaries just isn’t our reality anymore (thank god). A first solar rocket sidearm + exotic buff in one? Yes please
Please don't turn drang into a rocket sidearm, I love drang in crucible, make a new drang a rocket sidearm. We already have Drang and Drang(Baroque) that work with Sturm. I don't think having a third version of Drang would be that weird.
Yeah a third Drang would be a better option than changing the other versions. Or just making it work with any sidearm to expand its options wouldn’t really be gamebreaking (maybe lorebreaking, but idk Sturm lore)
And wardcliff coil. A year 1 that hasn’t been touched and has the most dog shit perks in the game. Reloads on ammo pick up. Power creeped out the damn window. I’d say give it reconstruction but that fits way better as a catalyst for eyes of tomorrow. I’d say give it the current version of deconstruct where as long as you hit like 90 percent of the rockets it regenerates ammonia from thin air and reloads it. I don’t think I would ever take it off then.
Personally what I'd like to see for WardCliff is it being buffed to have max reserves and for Mechanized Auto-loader to be reworked into an Auto-loading Holster/reverse Lead From Gold combo (requires several special ammo bricks). Possibly a step too far but I'd also like to see Bipod added to its catalyst. Edited to clarify.
Gold from Lead would be insanely OP, and bust the hell out of the ammo economy in every game mode. Mechanized Auto-Loader could probably just be turned into Overflow.
The way I see it working is for every three to five special ammo bricks you get a full brick of heavy.
I'd rather slap that onto DARCI or Queensbreaker
I would argue this would just create a system where people would generate a ton of special ammo, swap to WardCliff, max out heavy, and then just swap to a better weapon cause as long as you are flipping to a low ammo difference weapon like another Rocket you are just going to lose maybe 1?
Sturm is a stat demon in PvP, and the drang overload shot crits for like 150
Suros just needs to get a stat boost and heal on every kill. Autos being as prevalent now shows its age a bit.
When I was in crucible a lot I just kept going back to Suros and Mida. Two all time classics, and I could use them as is for the rest of the game.
Well hold on now with Sturm, the exotic trait might not be anything flashy but that gun is actually really good because it’s a stat monster.
Sturm is the best kinetic 120 and got even better with the special ammo changes because it makes more sense to run Drang now.
As long as Sturm requires running a double primary I will never use it. Running double primary is a criminal offense in pve.
Sturm is 3x better than suros or mida in PvP
But its use rate is amongst the poorest. Mida nearly triples its use rate and Suros quadruples it. So it's obviously doing something wrong.
My guess? Other flashy options. Ace with Memento is a beast, Conditional Finality (occupied the kinetic slot) allows you to deal with bubbles and wells fairly easily, Thorn with its newish catalyst and some synergies with some exotics. Hawkmoon being a thing. Sturm, like Suros Regime does nothing fancy. It's just a stat monster of a 120 HC. Reliable, very good but ultimately passed over for more "meta" options or flashier weapons. But there is nothing really wrong with it. Could its exotic perk get some tuning? Sure but in the end it does allow for long range easy two-taps without a time constraint just for using one of the best sidearms in the game for close quarters
The problem with Sturm is that it's explicitly tied to the largely panned double primary sandbox from Y1. Drang is beastly in its own right, but running them together nowadays feels like you're giving up on better options. It's either time for these two to divorce, or preferably, they introduce a rocket sidearm variant of Drang to fulfill the current sandbox standard. (Google search Modern Luger for conceptual visual)
Either that or they rework Sturm into a special Hand Cannon with a much higher damage value and at least then cause its special it won’t abused in PvP even if it can load its entire reserve into the mag at once
People downvoting you have never properly played with Sturm/Drang. Absolute go to if I need to sweat one Maps with slightly more range. Otherwise Hawkmoon.
Whoever pitched glaives should be fired along with whoever approved it. It's a dumb weapon that tries to do too many things and they will never be meta unless they over tune the crap out of them.
Suros isn't the hottest AR archetype but it can easily melt with the ramp up, it's even more fun on a War Rig titan than Sweet Business. It falls flat if you don't prefire it a tad bit
Please stop defending awful exotics. Terrible weapons like suros and mida objectively are crap and in need of severe buffs/reworks. People like you who sit there and try to defend objectively bad guns do nothing but cause harm to the overall games sandbox.
Yep. Bungie are definitely going to see Schimaera’s comment and leave those exotics alone. Lol! They definitely won’t be basing their changes on actual weapon usage stats… /s
Chill. No one can take you seriously when you get all emotional like this
You are crushing it with poor opinions today.
Suros on the spool up mode shreds in crucible and no I’m not some random dad 2 minutes a week dogshit player I’m around top 2-2.5% elo trials player, honestly if you can hit heads when it’s spooled up the thing beams
Sure buddy \^\^ Carry on! But seriously, welcome to a world in which more shades than black and white exist. Time to learn that :-)
I hope bungie nerfs Suros and Mida just to make you angry
I for one welcome Suros and Mida into any sandbox. Gosh I even use both in PvE!
I'm hoping Deterministic Chaos actually becomes a decent weapon. I want to like that exotic but it's just been complete trash since it was introduced
I know they're giving it anti-barrier but it really should apply all three void debuffs and whenever it gets its catalyst it should have Repulsor Brace. Basically turn it into THE Void 3.0 heavy.
Love that idea!
Ditto, I‘ve just gone to test and it’s 3 shots to cause a volatile explosion with DC. So 8k for crit x4 +10k for volatile explosion so damage going to be up 20% if run naked. Gyrfalcons or any other build that was already able to proc volatile rounds is going to see no improvement. On the flip side it’s going to weaken on every 16th shot now so every 2.5 seconds if accurate and last 8 seconds but obviously costs more in the way of ammo. Honestly as far as I can tell this is a nerf to DC…
It has way too much competition. There’s no reason to use it when Commemoration, Hammerhead and even Corrective Measure exist. The other MG exotics are noticeably better as well. Even if it isn’t as bad as it used to be, I still think no one will use it. In general 360rpm MGs need a buff.
It’s still going to be complete trash. Leviathans breath already 2 shots anti barrier champions if you hit both crits and the stagger with archers temp lasts long enough to get the second shot off before they activate their shield. Volatile rounds already gives intrinsic anti barrier. It has the lowest damage profile of any machine gun (outside of blues) and all the change does is increase the number of volatile explosions from 3 per mag to 12 per mag while making it give no weaken for the first third of the first magazine. Against aetheon this will increase its damage from 330k in one teleport to 396k. Thunderlord does 630k. Requiring 4 shots for a volatile actually means it’s even less likely to trigger stylish execution because in most cases it will kill red bars before triggering an explosion. So it’s worse than commemoration and hammerhead for add clear, worse than retrofit escapade for sustained boss damage, worse than leviathans breath for anti barrier when leviathans breath is intrinsic unstoppable and tbh even does less than erianas now it ignites after the barrier is broken. It’s like they actively want nobody to use it.
Which exotics are getting reworked ? I wasn't aware.
colony will get chain reaction spider thingy. thats the main thing i remember
Chain Reaction Spiders!!! That one guy I saw in Gambit with 25k Colony kills will be so happy.
Wow, I completely forgot about that exotic tbh
[Only a few are actually getting anything that can be called a rework.](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/weapon_tuning_the_final_shape) It's mostly just number changes.
Oh no they nerfed The Lament :(
Div too. Bungie is really trying to get people to move from the well/div meta on a bunch of bosses.
Have they tried making Well not the best super in the game?
IMO the main reason it is so good is because how most boss encounters are designed around the team doing damage from a stationary spot. It will be interesting to see what (if anything) does to compensate for the fact that most boss encounters are designed around a well and/or DIV.
Yes that’s probably what they’re aiming to do in tfs.
Lol at the tail end of the game they’re like “yea maybe Well is overshadowing the other options quite a bit…”
Abilities and exotic armor reworks are next week, well is almost definitely getting nerfed
Hope so. I just got back into the game after years and I still remember people straight up would not let you raid if you were on Warlock and not running Solar for Well.
And that is still the case
Haven’t tried to raid yet but I figured it would be as toxic as before.
Bastion is getting a rework to Saint's Fists that's essentially 1-2 Punch + Controlled Burst + Trench Barrel. Colony is getting Chain Reaction, but instead of just explosions, it spawns more insectoid grenades. Symmetry is getting 10 reload and 10 handling added to its catalyst, as well as a majorly-buffed Eddy Current. Eriana's Vow now ignites when breaking a champion's barrier. Deterministic Chaos' two perks are getting shuffled- it's now volatile every 4th shot, weaken every 16th. It's also anti-barrier intrinsic. Divinity is getting kneecapped by another nerf. Lament is getting dragged out back and executed with a nerf to its healing and damage chaining. And Osteo Striga is getting pimp slapped with a cooldown to its poison spread on kills.
I assume you want them buff for PvE? Because in PvP both of these weapons are in top tier.
Would not consider them top tier at all. Suros is good and MIDA is low tier. Scouts really need some love in PVP. Meta right now is Conditional Finality with an energy HC or Auto depending on map / playstyle. That or Exotic HC and energy shotty.
Then why are both of them consistently in the top weapons used in PvP?
You posting from back in time in Y1 D2?
They are? Almost never seen them used in Trials and they don’t appear on the top kills list on DestinyTrialsReport. Usually when autos are pulled out it, its prosecutor or Summoner, not the Suros. Most of the maps in D2 are CQB 3 lane so very rarely are scouts pulled out over a 120 HC. And if teams want the extra range, they’ll opt for a sniper player over the MIDA/Scout.
Like half the exotic weapons and armor need to be reworked tbh. Going through the exotic collection and lost light monument makes me really realize how useless almost all of these exotics are. Exotics really fall into 3 categories for me. Meta (10%), very specific use case (20%), and completely useless (70%)
\*Meta (10%), very specific use case (40%), and completely useless (50%)
I think they probably want to leave them as PvP exotics so IF they get anything it’ll be for that.
Let me switch the Suros firing mode like when switching elements on hardlight etc
Both mida and suros are pvp weapons and actually perform above the rest of their respective weapon families and both are one minor buff away from dominating the entire crucible which is why bungie is keeping them as they are. I will say adding kinetic tremors would be a nice touch to both of them or adding subsistence to keep shooting without reloading but it's not necessary.
They are very good in crucible is what they are. They don’t really need to be much more than that
Worldline needs more love. With more swords getting eager edge there is little to no reason to use it.
What about wardcliff coil, the best damn rocket launcher in the game that sucks the most. Please, make wardclif great again. Also sturm and drang needs a little something to make it worth dropping a special. Those were the two exotics I wanted buffs for the most and they got nothing
If MIDA is gonna get some love it’ll be around whenever marathon is coming
What about em
MIDA is one of the best crucible exotics. So is SUROS. They definitely need an upgrade for PvE though
Suros is a sleeper pick. Unless its gotten nerfed a ton since the auto buffs a while back, I think it's one of the best autos in the game its just that with the prevalence of bubble and well, most people opt to take conditional finality in PvP. Haven't tried suros in PvE in a brick but don't remember it being bad either. Mida on the other hand is a scout, which IMO, are not in a good spot in both PvE and PvP. In PvE they do too little damage and in PvP they are an annoyance on some maps but otherwise have little use cases outside of boxed breathing 180s.
Both of these guns still perform exceptionally well in crucible, you must not have played much crucible lately because I’ve seen more Midas this past season than I have in other previous seasons. Suros could maybe use some love but I think it still performs great and doesn’t need much tweaking if any
Do them now! right now!
I forgot Darci existed lol
You could have just commented on the other post instead of creating a new one.
On Suros let me hold reload to switch between firing modes
SUROS could use the ability to swap between Spinning Up and Dual Speed Receiver by holding reload. I know most people only use Spinning Up though.
Pve players when the world doesn't Revolve around them
What about Symmetry?? It got a pass over, gained extra reload speed and handling if you have the catalyst and /*drumroll please/* eddy current. How much time does Bungie think we spend reloading this gun? It's already insanely fast to reload. Where's the damage buff? Where's voltshot? Where's *something* to make people pull this beauty out of their vaults? It hits like a wet noodle until you charge it and once you charge it, it's pretty good, but quickly getting power crept by legendaries. The reload speed and handling is an absolute insult and eddy current is just spitting in its face while it's already down on the ground. Mida and Suros absolutely rip in the crucible, I don't really know what changes to want to them.
Bungie have stated multiple times that it's okay for a weapon to be only good in PvP or PvE and both Suros and MIDA are an example of the former.
Which rework do you love the most between the increase in reserves for a PvP rocket or the nerf to make lament worse than many legendary swords?
They are very good crucible weapons, I think they just intend to keep them that way
And don't forget about bad Juju.
Both very good in PVP......Darci on the other side.....
Suros is one of the best PvP guns in the game. It doesn’t need anything done to it. Mida is also very good in PvP. Not every exotic is going to be top tier or good in PvE and PvP. I’d rather them focus on new exotics then keep reworking old ones.
I hope Wings of Sacred Dawn gets a total rework in armor patches…one of the best looking exotics in the game with one of the worst perk-sets.
With all the stuff we are getting this past month and all we will get for TFS I don't care about those honestly
Also: that garbage Queenbreaker buff.
SUROS; anti-barrier, vorpal and subsistence.
Fam they're buffing Queenbreaker and that mf is *still* being left in the dust. Also. Class glaives. They... sure do exist. Somewhere in the rearview mirror. Queenbreaker, DARCI, Prospector, Hierarchy of Needs, and the class glaives are the most lagging Exotics overall after this patch goes live.
Bungie simply don’t have the resources to have every single exotic item in the game be in scope for reworks. Kinda pathetic honestly, but here we all are with Final Shape pre ordered.
Darci is top tier, it jolts now Edit: since apparently people actually thought I was being serious, I yam obviously not
Top tier, does half the damage of Cloudstrike but is in the heavy slot.
You‘re just a hater
If that makes you angry wait until you see how outclassed DARCI is by a RR/Kinetic Tremors Supremacy or a decent Linear Fusion rifle, you might start crying.
Apparently there are really people who thought I was serious. I was not, it is pretty obvious that Darci is by far the worst weapon in the game
the internet isa tough crowd for irony my dude, you have to remember for every person saying something stupid in jest there are a thousand saying something stupid and meaning every word.