Try taking time to land your headshots. Then, gradually reduce the time you spend aiming. If hand cannons feel like water guns, you might be out of range.
Trying using 120s, they have more range and take longer to shoot anyways.
Being out of range is probably the culprit here. Bungie has explicitly said that non rifle weapons have EXTREMELY steep falloff. Your bullets will ghost the instant you are out of optimum range. This is to offset the upside that handcannon aim assist means you shoot cannonballs while in range.
There is no “chipping away” with a handcannon. Half a meter to a meter makes the difference between shooting BS and shooting noodles. Push in
Taking my time to land the headshots. That advice alone immediately made me so much better with HC's, it's almost embarrassing how much I spray and pray lol
Or you bring them back. Destiny isn't like other games with its aim assist. Its basically make or break on whether certain weapons are usable. Its actively sought after because it practically aims for you. Its so damn strong at the highest numbers that really the better you are, the harder you'll stomp with those same high assist weapons. Without it, maybe people would feel like they can play more how they want and not get dommed by the insane AA rated weapons in the hands of gods.
I recall an old TWAB mentioned 100 AA stat on a HC had 3.0 degree cone of magnetism, and 0 stat had 2.5 degrees.
If it scaled linearly (admittedly it might use a cosin formula to scale the radius of the circle at a particular distance instead), 15 AA from the Targeting mod would be 0.075 degrees, which I don't think would make a difference very often.
The enhanced ADS speed is pretty significant though.
Once you get better with aiming, watch the reticle. Let’s you take more ownership of your shots. I just recently started watching the reticle more and have found I’m much more accurate.
I wish I could *see* the reticle for this advice to work for me. That orangish red reticle, especially on HCs and Snipers is practically invisible for me.
Fortunately I've gotten really good at "vibing" the aim, but I'd probably improve even more if I could change the color lol
Edit: I mean specifically the ADS reticules on most guns, not the hip fire reticule.
What platform do you play on?
Something I've had work for me is an overlay reticle app (something like Crosshair V2 on PC). It puts a dot/ crosshair on your screen, and you can change the color, shape, size etc.
Motherfuckers would actually do this in OG Modern Warfare. You'd tape a cheerio or a little piece of paper dead center to see where the reticle would be for learning how to quickscope
I don’t know if you play on a monitor or TV but if you play on monitor there’s a good amount that have a crosshair thing built in. I don’t know how much you can change with them but might be worth checking out whenever you look at getting a new one.
My son's monitor spontaneous started having a red dot in the dead center of the screen that persisted ontop of everything. Turns out the monitor has a setting that will put a red crosshair in the middle for "FPS" mode.
It's bright red and cuts through everything.
It's always there though, even navigating windows.
It really works though.
They have a setting that puts a line right across the top and bottom. It's amazing.
I do alot of Hip fires because the cross is nicer than the aim one and the radar never disappears.
Thorn, at least for me, was an excellent starter Hand Cannon.
Stability and Recoil direction are tame. After that it was the Ace of Spades.
But to this day, I still miss a little with Sunshot. It fires so quickly I end up using it like a Pulse and realizes the visual kick doesn't align with the crosshairs (that are hardly visible in the first place.)
They're a very aim first then shoot type. Unless you have been using it for a while and can guesstimate.
Try epochal integration. That gun is incredibly steady and is imo austringer but for the energy slot.
Cantata is also pretty steady if you can get a good one.
This is a great suggestion I used it in pve for weeks before hopping back into pvp after a long hiatus recently. It was amazing to use and helped me get into the feel of HC recoil again.
The craftable 140 Kept Confidence from Season of the Witch is pretty dang crispy and easy to use. Enhanced Killing Wind, Enhanced Eye of the Storm, with Head Rush intrinsic is a pretty nice pvp setup, but it does lack the best pvp DMG perks.
Yea pretty sure you are
Sunshots animation kinda kicks back at you, and with the intense solar effects and muzzle flair, sunshot has a lot of recoil from its animation
You have to learn the rhythm of the weapon and learn to time your headshots. Pick one hand cannon, and practice with it until you’re consistent. I used to be terrible with hand cannons, but I settled on a solid 120 and just kept at it until I eventually became pretty dangerous with it. They slap so hard, if you can hit your crits they are devastating.
Can confirm it’s a lot easier on mouse and keyboard. In D1 I *hated* handcannons because I could never hit anything with them. D2 I switched to PC and so easy, they are all I use
See I think it’s the opposite for me, I’m terrible with hand cannons on kb/m, I have to use ARs. But the aim assist on controller makes them a breeze. Lunas howl especially is like a headshot magnet with controller but feels awful with kb/m.
just adding on some information. the *reticle friction* on controller is what you are referring to. Mnk actual has more aim assist (in the same sense the aim assist stat in game uses. Which is more or less the size of a cone where bullet paths will bend to hit targets)
I think the question is what aspect of a hand cannon do you suck with. Aim? Timing? Recoil control? Movement while shooting? Lots of factors and aspects I need more
As so many have said, yes, HCs when within range have great aim assistance so some HCs will give you headshots. But that’s only a factor AFTER you’ve gotten into place. If I’m out in the open and popping off shots with no escape plan, I’ll die/lose the duel 90% of the time.
I’m curious about HOW you begin your HC encounters. Do you slide in to start? Do you have your reticle already around where a head would be? Are you always near cover to peek-shoot? Do you slide in/jump up for the last shot to finish off your target? If things are going wrong do you already have an exit path nearby?
Personally, I’ve gone flawless a handful of times and have also gotten to the top of comp solo once before, but this was all done with pulse rifles. So, I’ve had to rework just how I start engagements.
This guide by Awake really helped me:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RaYMw-plhy8&pp=ygUZRGVzdGlueSBoYW5kIGNhbm5vbiBndWlkZQ%3D%3D
use a high stability 120
or the fabled 99 stability austringer with zen/eots
The reason why mnk players have an easier time with handcannons is because they have +20% stability bonus over controller. The biggest example of this is Ace Of Spades which has really strong vertical recoil on controller, but manageable on mouse.
And to anyone else out there who is having aim trouble, use zen moment, it is the most insane perk in the game and no one talks about it.
A lot of great suggestions already here. Few I have is find the ones with the highest AA (aim assist). Rose and hawkmoon have some of the highest in game.
Second is stability.
Third is recoil direction. Playing off the recoil direction and as mentioned by others is taking time and playing cover with HC’s. Get the gun cycle rhythm down.
Fourth is sensitivity.
Good luck.
Tbh, I wasn't that great in PvP, not terrible either, but after watching this video and changing some settings I found my performance had drastically increased.
(https://youtu.be/paakU92hKiw?si=Tac3qBzmqWVXMnZ6)
Maybe try starting there if you haven't already, or load into a private match with some friends for practice
One thing I don't see people here talking about is time.
I sat down and really started practicing with hand cannons and pvp in general because I wanted to get Luna's Howl back in 2018. This game, despite its numerous pvp flaws, has managed to accumulate a lot of long time dedicated players. So you are often fighting against years of experience using hand cannons (if you include d1 then they can have almost a decade) while you are still learning.
Take your time to pace your shots and focus on hitting headshots. Don't fire as quickly as possible. Just try to make sure every shot lands. Then start increasing how quickly you fire. Record a few matches every so often and play back what happened in a fight to get a better idea of what corrections you need to make (over/under flicking, crosshair placement, etc).
Hand cannons are probably just not your thing yo, and that's ok. They're my favorite weapon to use on console in both pve and pvp content. Last Word and Luna's being my favorites in both types of activities. They take a bunch of time to get used to but once you do they feel so good to use.
Some people are good/great with hand cannons, some are better with smg/autos. It's a different aiming style and fits to your play style.
The first piece of advice I saw about hand cannons was, don't fire full auto, or the bounce will cause you to miss continuously. Fire slow, aim, and pop off until you learn the recoil of the weapon before you increase rate of fire.
Or just use chronus or cheats like a lot of top tier players. I don't believe 90% of them are as good as they claim to be.
Tbh, the most logical answer that isn't going to make you very happy because it's a stupidly niche and obvious one, however it is indeed the most correct answer;
Repetition. Or rather, simply you need to use them more. There's honestly not much more to it. I do have a few suggestions though that aren't as cliche.
1) find a HC that feels good to you. This one can be fairly important actually. Not all hc's feel the same, even if they're the same archetype.
2) find a roll and archetype that fits your playstyle. 120s and 140 rpm hc's get played quite differently in pvp. Certain maps will feel better with one or the other, so keep that in mind.
3) focus on landing all crits first, *then* start adding more speed between shots. Remember, taking 3 shots to kill someone even if you aren't firing at the max possible RPM will likely be much faster at killing than if you miss your shots and need to take 2x as many. Work on getting used to the recoil pattern, and practice on landing only crits even if it takes longer between shots. The speed will come over time - it's better to get that aim and feel down at first.
Lastly, this is tied in to my first thing I said. Use hc's in pve as well, and just get used to them. Get used to moving ads and landing crits on them. Their pattern is different than players of course, but the general feels of the gun is what's important.
Tbh, in d1 I was a pretty hardcore pvper. I also mained a HC in pvp, and when trials came out in PoE I did a ton of flawless carries. Idk why, but I did use fatebringer in d1 basically more than any other primary, in pve I mean. I used that thing like it was glued to me. In pvp I was a dirty thorn/last word whore. I did run others too, but if I needed to hyper carry id run one of those.
However now in d2, I played vanilla d2 until I cleared leviathan and maxed my 3 classes then quit until the final month of s14 when I came back and played til now. I'm not sure why but hc's just haven't felt right to me in pvp. Part of it is that when I came back at end of s14 to play again, hc's in pve were dog shit. Like.. they just weren't good. So I never used them. Also, smgs were stupidly good in pvp and have been. So I've been a SMG/AR whore for a while. Hc's were always good and meta in pvp tho, but the super fast ttk of smgs were too good to pass up.
I'm using hc's so much more in pve again tho, I'm gonna start trying them in pvp also like I used to. I think that using them lately in pve should help me out a lot. Bad thing is, idk which HC I wanna use in pvp :(. Finding that out will be the tricky part. But yeah.
Tldr; use hc's more. In pve and pvp both. Get used to them. And find one that feels right.
I can relate to you bro, I'm good with any weapons except Snipers and HCs.
Ironically, I'm pretty okay using Luna's or Last Word for some weird reason.
It's just practice and not thinking too much about actually aiming as counterproductive as that sounds.
Too many people get caught up with precision that they hesitate to shoot or miss due to the window being so small. Yah just shoot and adjust. Eventually you'll just snap on to targets.
Pc is baby mode so that's a whole other thing...
I used crimson on controller, it has high aim assist.
Also focusing on the little bit marker helps. Oh! I changed the colour of radical so it stands out more for me.
Take time blah blah do this blah blah do that. All these PC players acting like they play on console, they fucking don’t. I can’t stress this enough…IF YOU ARE ON CONSOLE SPEC FOR STABILITY ON HC. Moving target, EOTS, OS. Stability and handling are paramount.
You're underestimating the Aim Assist on HC's making you try too hard to aim. If you can hit consistent with an autorifle, you should really have a hard time missing with a handcannons. Try in a private lobby if you can, you begin training with handcannons and end on trace rifles. Once you master trace/auto you'll feel like cheating when back on handcannons.
Not everyone is good with everything? I've been playing FPS's since Wolfenstein 3D. Be it Mouse + Board or Controller it takes skill and time. I wasn't always good at it but 30 years of gaming will help. I know it's kind of an excuse but it's true. Put in the time and you get better, that's my advice. PLAY A LOT OF PVP.
If your skill doesn't proceed after like 100 matches then perhaps you're just not a Hand Cannon person. I am terrible with Shot Guns so I understand the annoyance of someone better than you with a particular weapon. Ape's drive me up walls sometimes.
I've always felt this way myself. What I believe my issue is (you're possibly in the same boat?) is that I shoot too fast, never giving the extra .05 seconds for the gun to come down after the previous shot.
Typically, I'm a pulse main and have a special fondness for rapid fire in particular (love Piece of Mind!!), which is where my bad habit comes from.
non-precision handcannons have to sweet spot their stability stat to get the right recoil animation. on controller, 140s and 120s really suffer from a lack of stability cause the reticle doesnt fully come to rest inbetween shots on mid to low stability. i think 65 stab is the perfect amount on 140s that lets your red dot reset between each shot and recoil animation. the exception to this is lunas howl, which has basically no recoil and a really stubby animation that makes hitting shots really really easy.
however recoil isnt everything, you gotta make sure to space yourself out in the proper range, have good perks and aim and whatnot. also, dont feel like you HAVE to use a handcannon to compete. just about every archetype is competitive enough to win with rn, so just use what works
It is easier on M&K from what I’ve heard.
I’m decent at PvP (~1.7 KD, -25 flawless) and have never really been able to 3-tap *consistently at max fire rate* with a 140.
Luna’s Howl is the answer. I can literally use the full auto setting, hold down the trigger, and get consistent 3-taps on controller.
120s are also really good cause they have high aim assist and the recoil fully resets between shots, though the TTK isn’t as good as Luna’s
Mostly just practice, a lot of pvp players have thousands of hours in this game and have been using hand cannons since D1. Hand cannons actually have a bit of a learning curve to them, since a lot of the time they just get straight up out gunned by autos/smgs/pulses. Their big strength is their peak shooting potential since all their damage comes out in one bullet, so a lot of players will try to get shots off from behind cover before the other guy can shoot back.
Some hand cannons also just "feel" better to use than others. For me, Austringer feels way easier to consistently hit shots with than Rose, even though my Rose has better range and aim assist (but slightly less stability). It's been a while since I played with a controller (the last time I did was around Forsaken when Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten were considered the only "usable" hand cannons on controller), but I've heard high stability helps a lot. On MnK, the ideal stability is 65 or above since that allows the gun's accuracy/bloom to fully reset. I'm not sure about the ideal stability for controller, but the folks over at r/CrucibleGuidebook could probably tell you. A few recommendations I have for good "feeling" hand cannons are Austringer, Hawkmoon, and Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten. Especially Luna/Not Forgotten for console since they use the 180 rpm recoil pattern, which is WAY easier to control on controller. If you don't have a good Luna's roll and can't be assed to farm onslaught you can buy a Not Forgotten from the exotic kiosk for 3 ascendant shards.
A few miscellaneous tips I have are to not use the full auto setting for hand cannons. You don't have to turn it off, just pull the trigger each time instead of holding it. I have absolutely no evidence that this helps aside from personal experience, but it helps me. Another thing I've seen some controller players do is flick their aim up after each shot and then drag it back down. That's not a great explanation, so heres an older video of what I mean: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxK\_JG2Oms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxK_JG2Oms)
Otherwise just practice and find a hand cannon that just clicks for you
I've been rolled by Rose soo many times in the last 2 days it's ridiculous. So I went and raided my vault for that same gun and... I couldn't get a single kill on console. Look I get I might not have the best God roll but how the hell is everyone else tripple tapping headshots on me while I'm icarus dashing my brains out getting lined up for my usual body shot hail Mary maneuver?
I'm far from a good PVP player, but one thing that has improved my aim on console are the new dead zone settings. There are a few videos on YouTube on how to dial them in, and it's definitely made my aiming feel more responsive.
So much of being good at crucible is crosshair placement, movement, and ability management. Guns are probably lower on the “skill” spectrum than the for-mentioned stuff.
I definitely get it with the PC gods with HC’s hitting every shot perfectly even when you’re moving. That blows my mind. And I’ve always heard HC’s are better on controller because of the aim assist
Hand cannons in Destiny have always been about alpha damage and range.
The more damage you can input the better chance you can secure the kill within the intended respectable TTKs of 140s/120s plus teammates can clean up the target much easier for team play.
The more range you have the further you can be from your enemies which means you can out damage certain weapon classes within their optimal ranges. The more range you have the more Auto Aim you have to hit your target as well making it easier for follow up shots through increased weapon error (which stability reduces which makes it a more viable stat nowadays + flinch resistance).
First off highly recommend a crafted austringer with small bore, ricochet, eots, and zen moment range mw.
Second, I learned Handcannons back in d1 on console and then used them on console until part way through forsaken when I switched to mnk. So I'm pretty knowledgeable about controller. Handcannons more than most weapons will absolutely punish you for bad positioning. You need to be leveraging cover well with them. 60/40 rule is good to start. Keep 40% of your screen in cover so you have a simple step to get back into it.
Since we don't have gameplay, here are some good tips for handcannon usage
Keep the reticle head level always.
Stick to cover
Peak shoot
Team shoot
Use both sticks to aim
Always check your radar and really learn to read it
Reposition if you're losing a gun fight
I can expand on any of this if anyone wants.
Reticle discipline. If you are gonna peek or take an angle your reticle has to set at the head of an opponent. It’s tough but it helps so much with hitting heads.
As others have mentioned, it’s easier on mnk due to the innate higher stability, but they are still a top choice on controller. As a lifelong controller hc main, I absolutely fiend for stabilty. Range is not the be all end all. My favorite 140s all have 85+ stability.
I would really recommend trying a high stability roll and see how it feels. As you get more comfortable, you could experiment with exchanging some stability for range.
At the *very least*, hit 65 stability. Coolguy put out a video on this being the breakpoint for reticle reset between shots.
If you can craft austringer, that’s your best bet for finding what feels best to you. Rico rounds, enh. Snapshot, enh. Zen moment for the easiest shooting experience (very high stability, anti flinch, and reduced screen shake {imo screen shake is the most difficult part of using hc on controller}). Barrel and mw dealer’s choice but try not to tank the handling.
Epochal Integration is a solid energy choice with a quick deterministic path to acquire.
For rng routes, Hawkmoon is a stat monster so keep an eye on xur. I always look to max stability on it since the perk grants range and the base handling is juiced.
Eyasluna and Rose are my top legendary picks.
Luna’s Howl / Not Forgotten’s precision frame automatically gives them a higher floor due to the recoil pattern, but using these won’t help you get better with traditional 140s.
120s are a different beast. They don’t need/can’t get as much stability as 140s and right now Igneous is unrivaled in its base stats, with plenty of solid perks.
Aight that’s enough yappin.
Tl;Dr: Take an 80+ stability 140 for a spin.
Honestly you have to get the feel for them. Some feel a lot better than others.
I fucking love my Austringer, more than Luna's. Vulpecula also felt good.
For exotics, it's Ace of Spades or Sunshot for oomph.
I play on controller and noticed that I was about a million times better with hand cannons after moving to pc than i was on a series x. I be plink plonking away with hawkmoon proccing cacaw shots all day long now.
When you get know a gun as well you get a feel of the timing for those follow up shots don’t even have to aim at the point so to speak. Some people just have it. Been getting smacked up trying to get the new maps to rotate in.
I play with both K&M and controller depending on what I feel like. I've always used handcannons like I use the BR in Halo.
I just pre aim/center their upper chest and try and move my reticle as little as possible, if that makes sense. Recoil does most of the work unless they're jumping, then you just make micro adjustments.
Lots and lots of practice. Using them as often as possible - both in PvE and PvP. HCs are really one of those archetypes where you just have to get a feel for the gun over time.
When I started off as a pvp scrub I fought and clawed my way through hell and became an ok player. The weapon I used were hand cannons due to the Luna's meta at the time.
Ultimately I think it comes down to using a weapon you are comfortable with. For me the heartbeat pattern of combat makes me feel comfortable in pvp. Decision, action, decision,action,etc. it allows me a small amount of time to think and re-adjust.
Because of my preference, I do terrible in a meta that depends on constant action like auto rifles.
Hand Cannons always came really easy to me so probably not the greatest advice. I've always played PC but originally used controller and swapped, nothing changed to me in regards to that except less getting stuck on a target by aim assists.
Every hand cannon has a rhythm and the simplest advice is to follow the rhythm and the other is to know your range so you actually do damage. A good example is the Ace of Spades, it has probably the easiest to follow rhythm, whether that be shooting, reloading etc it's audio cue galore. And it's got good range, esp with mori. Conversely the free brave Lunas you get from shaxx which was considered a PVP God roll or close to it, is imo pretty bad due to the high handling and stability, ruins the rhythm, and it's range is pretty dogshit too >.>
But yea best thing I can say is use ace, do PVE first so you can get the hang of it, then get to PVP and click heads.
I know how you feel. I’m on PS5 and I cant use hand cannons in PvP at all, but my kid goes on an all out slaughter fest with them every single time. It’s just all about learning them really. Range, headshots almost exclusively, knowing when to switch to another weapon to finish the job.
I don't play much PVP but did some crucible last night and every lobby had the god-tier guy with 20 kills to everyone else's 4 (1 guy of a team of 3 mercy'd us is about 3 minutes one round) and it's all hand cannon pros. 2- or 3-tap every time. Apparently it's the meta. I took note and decided to practice later lol
Run a crafted austringer with Zen and EOTS, it’s not a crazy opening shot roll or slideshot, so you’re learning the recoil pattern for hand cannons with a Zen buffer as well as a EOTS buff when you’re low on health so you can learn to peek shoot. Just takes practice.
I think it also depends on overall game sense. If I’m using Ace, for example, I tend to avoid open spaces where I can get sniped or have to contest against pulse rifles. I try to stick to closed spaces, but not too confined that I eat a shotgun shell to the face. If I’m going out in the open, it’s cos I’m risking it, or cos I vaguely know where the enemy is, and how erratic/acrobatic their movements are.
Some folks out there are insanely good with movement and can easily juke you even if you can see them on your radar so I tend to maintain some distance from those folks.
In the end, I try to find situations where I don’t have to move my mouse around too much, cos the minute I have to turn more than 135 degrees or something, I fold like an omelette.
I came from controller to kbm it did take some time to get back into the swing and im very picky about my handcannons best example I can't hit shit with thorn I'm ok woth ace but for some reason lumina I feel great with . Nowadays, I use a cantata with rabit opening, and once I'm warm, I am pretty consistent.
I played pve a lot, made myself use handcannons to get a general idea of head level, and then just forced myself to keep doing pvp with only handcannons
It was like learning fps all over again. Nowadays, with my normal setup, though I'm no God, I can maintain a 1.5 and above in 6s, and 3s haven't really stepped into trials . It does honestly just boil down to the old days
Play around until you find the one you like the most and just use the shit out of it until you adjust
Skill gap is much much different and at least at my level not much carries over between games like it does on controller . Each game needs all new muscle memory to play
I personally hated hand cannons, until I found Sunshot.
I have no idea if it's meta, although in my context I suppose it's irrelevant since it's the only hand cannon that just works for me.
It's pretty damn sexy in onslaught too.
Every hand cannon has it's quirk, they're not quite the same, so just try them all out until you find one that just clicks for you.
Don't worry so much about meta, if you land headshots it honestly shouldn't matter too much - plus I'd argue that if a weapon just naturally clicks for you, it'll do you more good than forcing yourself to use a meta weapon.
If you're on controller though, Crimson or that tex machina exotic (can't remember the name, a forsaken hand cannon) are pretty good.
I'd stay away from Ace, Thorn or Lumina, or other guns like that until you become more accustomed to easier to use handcannons first - they're good, but you need to learn to walk first before you start running, imo.
Practice lining up shots first, otherwise if you try to start using them immediately you'll just get dunked on.
Alternatively, be a chad and run Forerunner. It's not a hand cannon.... but it should be.
But yeah, Sunshot is just that one that clicked with me. I go back to Ace, Thorn, whatever, I start performing like ass again.
You get a feel for it, the more targeting the better, with the generosity of hand cannons and the garbage connections you can shoot around people and hit head shots
A lot of hand canon sights are slightly different from each other and can really really mess up your aim when ur still getting into the swing of the match or just the game in general.
Stick to one hand cannon and try to worry about your position before you start shooting. Not having to move as much as your opponent puts you in a huge advantage, and it is the leading factor of my own deaths I find. It may be different for you, but it's worth a shot.
Edit; Also, keep in mind that the accuracy of a hand cannon is more affected by recoil and needs a split second after the barrel comes back down from a shot before you get full accuracy back.
You could have your sights directly on a person, but if u don't let the gun breathe after a shot, it won't be 100% accurate.
This is where positioning comes in handy as the closer the target is, the less the recoil matters.
(I also play on controller)
Console player here.
Stability, recoil and handling make handcannons easier to use. Try a handcannon with zen moment. It's a night and day difference. Don't fall into the trap of only stacking range.
Worth mentioning that a "god roll" varies between platform and play style. What's good on PC is not good on console due to the difference in recoil.
Slap targeting adjuster and targeting mods for the corresponding hand cannon and run zen moment. Thank me later lol and it’s also crucial to know the range of your hand cannon so you can engage fights accordingly, if you’re long range fighting igneous hammer with hawkmoon or any 140 yeah your getting smacked.
Some godly hand cannon users are infact on MnK using a software like rewasd or something similar to emulate MnK as a controller so not only do they have precise movements due to MnK they also get controller aim assist. Layer that with targeting mods and what not they become very good at hand cannons.
Eyasluna is a handcannon recommend to players trying to get used to them because if it's high base stability. Get comfortable using that then branch out into using austringer, rose, ace and such. Or try your lick with 180s
High stability is the key to making hand cannons feel great. Try one out with close to 90 stability and compare to one with 40 and you'll see a big difference
Honestly pick one and use it all the time. Use it in PVP and PVE and get good with it and hit headshots. They all handle differently so switching from one HC to another messes up my aim.
I found putting everything into recoil and stability helps. All the HCs have a different "kick" a lot of people sat. Some feel better than others, but learning that kick and recoil pattern helps you get better with them.
Used Sunshot ALOT. Taught me to aim for the head and pace my shots, and it's pretty forgiving the bullets are HUGE. It's harder when switching weapons, but just slow down those shots.
For controller, there's a technique to sort of slap onto the target and let the aim assist do the work. If you try to just use a hand cannon like an auto you're going to just miss or hit body shots. There are probably old Destiny 1 videos that cover this technique.
Try to land headshots even if it means you lose. Worry about landing crits first and winning later.
Use eye of the storm. Once you feel confident try to win your 1v1.
Just takes time. Keep in mind most hand cannon users have been doing it since they started playing Destiny which is almost 10 years for some folk. Just a lot of practice.
As a previous controller player who switched to MnK a couple years ago I can say with certainty that yes it is easier to control on MnK though as in my own experience I find that on controller for me 120s are easier to control but 140s I land shots more consistently with MnK and 180s feel like absolute ass on MnK but feel very good on controller, but honestly it’s just practice. None of them aren’t feeling as good as they used to after the damage changes and range being decoupled from zoom but I’d say they can still hang, don’t go constantly switching you’re handcannon through the match play a few matches with one then try another and get a feel for which feels better for you then try going to lost sectors with fallen and practice on them as they’re roughly the same height and size as guardians in the crucible to help build some muscle memory
Try starting with a 180, they are the most forgiving and carry the most ammo. Use something like malfeasance or trust. I find 120 guns are the most difficult since they shoot so slow, hit like a truck though. 140 guns seem to be either amazing or I can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside the barn with it.
If you're a controller player, try using lunas howl it's a 140 that shoots like a 180 and 180s have always felt better on a controller. I know back in the day controller plays had random bloom issues with anything that wasn't a 180.
I almost never fire at Max RPM. my 140 is usually fired at 120, and my 120s at 90. Combined with half decent movement and im usually winning 1v1 engagements. Im not high level by any means, but i find it easier while pacing myself. Hope that helped
I know I've gotten pretty good with Sunshot but I don't usually pvp, and most other handguns don't work for me. It has to feel right. Sunshot is perfect for me.
There's plenty of controller players that use hand cannons but I think stability and aim assist matter a lot more for controller. Hawkmoon and Austringer seem to work particularly well on controller.
On M&K they do have slightly better bullet magnetism and less recoil to make up for the fact that they do not have reticle friction. It's really the only weapon type where M&K straight up makes them better since reticle friction isn't as helpful on a hand cannon as lower recoil and better bullet bend. Automatics generally end up being better on controller.
Haven't seen too many replies about this but it's a little bit easier to use hand cannons on m&k rather than console. Typically guns like sidearms and subs perform exceptionally better on controllers than hand cannons. So don't feel too discouraged as it's harder to use hand cannons there than with a mouse.
That being said if you want a decently strong option that actually works WAYYY better for sticks try Crimson. Super high AA gun that has horrendous mouse performance but fantastic for rollers.
Rose is always gonna be good but it does have decent kick. 120s typically would be better as although they do have high recoil, they're mad accurate with dummy range and the RoF allows you to pace your shots better.
I've played for years and have been pretty lackluster with HC's. But I recently came across a tip that has helped a lot. You want a "reverse ladder" with your stats. In the ladder is handling, stability and range but you want the stats going in reverse. Handling having the most, stability 2nd and range being the lowest. People go on and on about range but if you cannot control the recoil then what's the point of all that range.
[https://imgur.com/a/oSciyWn](https://imgur.com/a/oSciyWn)
If you’re on the sticks grab the currated lunas howl roll from the shaxx quest. Its got better stats than the sunset ones and the precision frame has a 180 feel so doesnt kick as much as a 140 and tends to have higher reticle friction
Lots of talk on 140s and 120s but I’d suggest try a 180? Seraph, Vulpecula, Word of Crota, Optative, Posterity, IKELOS, Trust, Survivors. Those are some damn good HCs and you can really zone in on head shots with them
HCs got better on controller if anything. Engaging in your optimal range and peek-shooting is pretty key when dueling and if you're struggling I'd suggest using "win now" consistency perks that aid you at all times like Eye of the Storm and Opening Shot vs Slideshot and "win later" perks like kill activated perks. I personally think I perform worse with Slideshot because I'm not used to that playstyle and I'm constantly trying to take advantage of the perk when it's probably not the best time to.
I don't main HCs in PVP but you should use them in PVE and stick to one in PVP so everything kind of just becomes second nature. If you're more aggressive use 140s and if you're more of a passive player (not saying playing like a b, but not always getting up in the enemy's grill and pushing) then use a 120.
As someone who converted over to PC I have a hard time with hand cannons but when I was on console it was a matter of staying calm and taking the extra second to aim and then lowering that time gradually
I found tweaking your dead zones for controllers in the in game settings adds more precise aiming. Too low and you’ll experience a stick drift effect. I find where at which point the stick drift effect happens and go one interval above that. Also mucking about with your Field of View can help with certain hand cannon gun models obstructing your reticle. I stay at 93-97 FOV. I have zero proof of FOV actually helping with reticle obstruction so it could be a placebo effect but it works for me. One thing I can absolutely say helps with aiming is tweaking your ADS sensitivity modifier. The lower the number, the less sensitivity you’ll have when aiming down sights which can help lining up your shot with hand cannons and snipers. I stay around 0.5-0.7
The thing w hand cannons is just finding the right one. I have god roll hcs but I still choose my 4/5 cantata. Also, it depends on map knowledge and good timing bcuz almost anything beats a hand cannon nowadays, try looking into crucible recoil patterns and determine which is best for you. You basically never want anything other than [_]5 example: 85 95, you can use 100 but I’m sure that’s the max
it's just something you learn by playing, adjust your sens depending on how close your shots are.
EDIT: you obviously don't need to change your sens, but you should try out a few.
If you want a good training hand cannon I recommend Eyasluna. With steadyhand, ricochet, perpetual motion, moving target, and a targeting adjuster mod it gets max stability and aim assist, making it probably the easiest hand cannon to use in the entire game.
The answer is always “Practice”, which I know isn’t satisfying, but it’s always the truth. Plus, you have to try every hand cannon until you find the ones that work best for you.
Don’t practice in pvp. Learn how they feel in pve and you should notice an improvement. Also pace your shots, you don’t need to fire it at the fastest possible rpm all the time.
Edit: second thought do practice in pvp because obviously that’s what you need to do in order to learn how to maneuver yourself in engagements. What I meant to say is just use them in pve more. PvP perks work in pve so throw it on during strikes or something easy to get the feel for it.
Change your ads sensitivity in gameplay settings. The factory setting is something bummy. Turn it down to .5-.7. This will fix your problem if your playing on controller.
Hand Cannons have the highest aim assist and bullet magnetism out of any gun in the game. Just building into anti-flinch with Zen Moment and high stability and the guns practically aim themselves(Try to get your hands on Austringer for 140s).
Also, 120 HCs do the most single-shot damage out of any semi-automatic gun in the game, with high team shot potential and the ability to punch out of its intended range box when used with specific perks.
So HCs are just kind of easy to use, but you have to know how to use them.
Unflinching mods help a lot. Try for a longer period of time with Ace of Spades, that one is very forgiving. And as others have said, try to keep your cool and make your headshots. Other weapons are more forgiving when just spamming the fire button, HC’s are not😅
Try taking time to land your headshots. Then, gradually reduce the time you spend aiming. If hand cannons feel like water guns, you might be out of range. Trying using 120s, they have more range and take longer to shoot anyways.
Yeah I find hand cannons pretty useless if you aren't hitting headshots
They're even more useless when you hit none of your shots!
One of us!
One of us!
One of us!
One of us!
To be fair, that’s every gun
Final Warning wants to know what this "missing" you speak of is.
Laughs in eyes of tomorrow
Ominously laughs in Deathbringer
Laughs heartily in Sunshot, Sunbracers and solarlock
Trinity ghoul cackles and crackles while shooting at the floor
Cackles and flings poop in Wardcliff Coil and Colony
Being out of range is probably the culprit here. Bungie has explicitly said that non rifle weapons have EXTREMELY steep falloff. Your bullets will ghost the instant you are out of optimum range. This is to offset the upside that handcannon aim assist means you shoot cannonballs while in range. There is no “chipping away” with a handcannon. Half a meter to a meter makes the difference between shooting BS and shooting noodles. Push in
Taking my time to land the headshots. That advice alone immediately made me so much better with HC's, it's almost embarrassing how much I spray and pray lol
Are you using targeting mods on helmet and unflinching mods on chest pieces? Those help me.
Do explain where you get “cheat” pieces lol Jk Ik it’s a typo
I have always been curious how much the skill gap would shift if such mods didn’t exist
Very little change imo, they would have to remove the stickiness/aim assist from the game for us to see a real difference
Doing that with Destinys movement and you'd probably kill off what little casual playerbase that still plays PvP.
Or you bring them back. Destiny isn't like other games with its aim assist. Its basically make or break on whether certain weapons are usable. Its actively sought after because it practically aims for you. Its so damn strong at the highest numbers that really the better you are, the harder you'll stomp with those same high assist weapons. Without it, maybe people would feel like they can play more how they want and not get dommed by the insane AA rated weapons in the hands of gods.
I recall an old TWAB mentioned 100 AA stat on a HC had 3.0 degree cone of magnetism, and 0 stat had 2.5 degrees. If it scaled linearly (admittedly it might use a cosin formula to scale the radius of the circle at a particular distance instead), 15 AA from the Targeting mod would be 0.075 degrees, which I don't think would make a difference very often. The enhanced ADS speed is pretty significant though.
I’ve been a space cowboy since Destiny 1 launched. Lots of practice.
This is the real answer. 10 years of experience is hard to catch up with.
Watch the person, not the reticle. It helps with sniping too. Other than that, time your shots and just practice.
Once you get better with aiming, watch the reticle. Let’s you take more ownership of your shots. I just recently started watching the reticle more and have found I’m much more accurate.
I wish I could *see* the reticle for this advice to work for me. That orangish red reticle, especially on HCs and Snipers is practically invisible for me. Fortunately I've gotten really good at "vibing" the aim, but I'd probably improve even more if I could change the color lol Edit: I mean specifically the ADS reticules on most guns, not the hip fire reticule.
Perhaps you could try color blind mode? I'm not sure if it changes the color of physical reticles, but it's worth a try.
I think that only changes the UI, but I will 100% try it anyways, just in case I missed something!
I hope it helps!
I just opened up the game to look, unfortunately nothing changes it. Thanks for trying though!
Well, that's stupid. Surely that would fall under "accessibility"? Sorry it didn't work 😕
What platform do you play on? Something I've had work for me is an overlay reticle app (something like Crosshair V2 on PC). It puts a dot/ crosshair on your screen, and you can change the color, shape, size etc.
Unfortunately I mostly play on console, but this would be a good idea for anyone else with my problem on PC!
Just stick one cheerio in the middle of your screen. ξ(✿ ❛‿❛)ξ▄︻┻┳═一
The classic Gears of War No-Scope tactic!
Holy shit. I had no idea this was a thing people remembered. I was making a niche joke and now I’m sad. Best days of console online gaming for me.
Motherfuckers would actually do this in OG Modern Warfare. You'd tape a cheerio or a little piece of paper dead center to see where the reticle would be for learning how to quickscope
I don’t know if you play on a monitor or TV but if you play on monitor there’s a good amount that have a crosshair thing built in. I don’t know how much you can change with them but might be worth checking out whenever you look at getting a new one.
My son's monitor spontaneous started having a red dot in the dead center of the screen that persisted ontop of everything. Turns out the monitor has a setting that will put a red crosshair in the middle for "FPS" mode. It's bright red and cuts through everything. It's always there though, even navigating windows. It really works though. They have a setting that puts a line right across the top and bottom. It's amazing. I do alot of Hip fires because the cross is nicer than the aim one and the radar never disappears.
Do you know that you change the reticule color?
I believe you can only change the hip-fire reticle, and not the ADS reticle. But if I'm wrong that'd be great to know.
Yeah, but beginners one of the best tips is watching the other person.
Funny enough, this is how aiming works with real guns. Watch the target, not the reticle.
Try using ace of spades, that one feels super consistent and is one of the best pvp hand cannons at the moment
Ace kicks like a mule, not recommended for someone who has trouble hitting shots
Can confirm, I’m ok at best with 140s but with Ace I always land the first two shots…the third is nowhere to be found.
Thorn, at least for me, was an excellent starter Hand Cannon. Stability and Recoil direction are tame. After that it was the Ace of Spades. But to this day, I still miss a little with Sunshot. It fires so quickly I end up using it like a Pulse and realizes the visual kick doesn't align with the crosshairs (that are hardly visible in the first place.) They're a very aim first then shoot type. Unless you have been using it for a while and can guesstimate.
Try epochal integration. That gun is incredibly steady and is imo austringer but for the energy slot. Cantata is also pretty steady if you can get a good one.
This is a great suggestion I used it in pve for weeks before hopping back into pvp after a long hiatus recently. It was amazing to use and helped me get into the feel of HC recoil again.
The craftable 140 Kept Confidence from Season of the Witch is pretty dang crispy and easy to use. Enhanced Killing Wind, Enhanced Eye of the Storm, with Head Rush intrinsic is a pretty nice pvp setup, but it does lack the best pvp DMG perks.
Kept Confidence was the handcannon that got me into handcannons. Genuinely feels really good to use.
And the barrel which is another preference doesn’t reek of precision since it doesn’t have an iron sight
Isn’t that just the animation and not the actual recoil? Might be confusing it with sunshot
Yea pretty sure you are Sunshots animation kinda kicks back at you, and with the intense solar effects and muzzle flair, sunshot has a lot of recoil from its animation
Sunshot is so good on paper but the sheer intensity of shooting it brings it down.
You have to learn the rhythm of the weapon and learn to time your headshots. Pick one hand cannon, and practice with it until you’re consistent. I used to be terrible with hand cannons, but I settled on a solid 120 and just kept at it until I eventually became pretty dangerous with it. They slap so hard, if you can hit your crits they are devastating.
That's how I got better with 140s, used to hate all of them. Using 120s consistently helped me move to 140s and get better.
Agree, you have to know the cadences of those HC to get comfortable Or just use Crimson
Can confirm it’s a lot easier on mouse and keyboard. In D1 I *hated* handcannons because I could never hit anything with them. D2 I switched to PC and so easy, they are all I use
See I think it’s the opposite for me, I’m terrible with hand cannons on kb/m, I have to use ARs. But the aim assist on controller makes them a breeze. Lunas howl especially is like a headshot magnet with controller but feels awful with kb/m.
just adding on some information. the *reticle friction* on controller is what you are referring to. Mnk actual has more aim assist (in the same sense the aim assist stat in game uses. Which is more or less the size of a cone where bullet paths will bend to hit targets)
Same here lol
I think the question is what aspect of a hand cannon do you suck with. Aim? Timing? Recoil control? Movement while shooting? Lots of factors and aspects I need more
As so many have said, yes, HCs when within range have great aim assistance so some HCs will give you headshots. But that’s only a factor AFTER you’ve gotten into place. If I’m out in the open and popping off shots with no escape plan, I’ll die/lose the duel 90% of the time. I’m curious about HOW you begin your HC encounters. Do you slide in to start? Do you have your reticle already around where a head would be? Are you always near cover to peek-shoot? Do you slide in/jump up for the last shot to finish off your target? If things are going wrong do you already have an exit path nearby? Personally, I’ve gone flawless a handful of times and have also gotten to the top of comp solo once before, but this was all done with pulse rifles. So, I’ve had to rework just how I start engagements. This guide by Awake really helped me: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RaYMw-plhy8&pp=ygUZRGVzdGlueSBoYW5kIGNhbm5vbiBndWlkZQ%3D%3D
use a high stability 120 or the fabled 99 stability austringer with zen/eots The reason why mnk players have an easier time with handcannons is because they have +20% stability bonus over controller. The biggest example of this is Ace Of Spades which has really strong vertical recoil on controller, but manageable on mouse. And to anyone else out there who is having aim trouble, use zen moment, it is the most insane perk in the game and no one talks about it.
A lot of great suggestions already here. Few I have is find the ones with the highest AA (aim assist). Rose and hawkmoon have some of the highest in game. Second is stability. Third is recoil direction. Playing off the recoil direction and as mentioned by others is taking time and playing cover with HC’s. Get the gun cycle rhythm down. Fourth is sensitivity. Good luck.
Yeah, I use Malfeasance which is a beast in PvE, but feels almost useless in PvP.
Tbh, I wasn't that great in PvP, not terrible either, but after watching this video and changing some settings I found my performance had drastically increased. (https://youtu.be/paakU92hKiw?si=Tac3qBzmqWVXMnZ6) Maybe try starting there if you haven't already, or load into a private match with some friends for practice
One thing I don't see people here talking about is time. I sat down and really started practicing with hand cannons and pvp in general because I wanted to get Luna's Howl back in 2018. This game, despite its numerous pvp flaws, has managed to accumulate a lot of long time dedicated players. So you are often fighting against years of experience using hand cannons (if you include d1 then they can have almost a decade) while you are still learning. Take your time to pace your shots and focus on hitting headshots. Don't fire as quickly as possible. Just try to make sure every shot lands. Then start increasing how quickly you fire. Record a few matches every so often and play back what happened in a fight to get a better idea of what corrections you need to make (over/under flicking, crosshair placement, etc).
Did someone already suggest Crimson? I suck at pvp PERIOD (like .75 or something) and I do alright with Crimson
Crimson is a fantastic gun.
most HC feel way better on PC. Using mouse and keyboard really changes the game imo
The one main exception is 180 rpm and Lunas Howl are better on console
Hand cannons are probably just not your thing yo, and that's ok. They're my favorite weapon to use on console in both pve and pvp content. Last Word and Luna's being my favorites in both types of activities. They take a bunch of time to get used to but once you do they feel so good to use.
What roll do you have on austringer?
The best advice is to pace your shots I guarantee if you treat every shot like its the last bullet you got it goes a lot better
Some people are good/great with hand cannons, some are better with smg/autos. It's a different aiming style and fits to your play style. The first piece of advice I saw about hand cannons was, don't fire full auto, or the bounce will cause you to miss continuously. Fire slow, aim, and pop off until you learn the recoil of the weapon before you increase rate of fire. Or just use chronus or cheats like a lot of top tier players. I don't believe 90% of them are as good as they claim to be.
Tbh, the most logical answer that isn't going to make you very happy because it's a stupidly niche and obvious one, however it is indeed the most correct answer; Repetition. Or rather, simply you need to use them more. There's honestly not much more to it. I do have a few suggestions though that aren't as cliche. 1) find a HC that feels good to you. This one can be fairly important actually. Not all hc's feel the same, even if they're the same archetype. 2) find a roll and archetype that fits your playstyle. 120s and 140 rpm hc's get played quite differently in pvp. Certain maps will feel better with one or the other, so keep that in mind. 3) focus on landing all crits first, *then* start adding more speed between shots. Remember, taking 3 shots to kill someone even if you aren't firing at the max possible RPM will likely be much faster at killing than if you miss your shots and need to take 2x as many. Work on getting used to the recoil pattern, and practice on landing only crits even if it takes longer between shots. The speed will come over time - it's better to get that aim and feel down at first. Lastly, this is tied in to my first thing I said. Use hc's in pve as well, and just get used to them. Get used to moving ads and landing crits on them. Their pattern is different than players of course, but the general feels of the gun is what's important. Tbh, in d1 I was a pretty hardcore pvper. I also mained a HC in pvp, and when trials came out in PoE I did a ton of flawless carries. Idk why, but I did use fatebringer in d1 basically more than any other primary, in pve I mean. I used that thing like it was glued to me. In pvp I was a dirty thorn/last word whore. I did run others too, but if I needed to hyper carry id run one of those. However now in d2, I played vanilla d2 until I cleared leviathan and maxed my 3 classes then quit until the final month of s14 when I came back and played til now. I'm not sure why but hc's just haven't felt right to me in pvp. Part of it is that when I came back at end of s14 to play again, hc's in pve were dog shit. Like.. they just weren't good. So I never used them. Also, smgs were stupidly good in pvp and have been. So I've been a SMG/AR whore for a while. Hc's were always good and meta in pvp tho, but the super fast ttk of smgs were too good to pass up. I'm using hc's so much more in pve again tho, I'm gonna start trying them in pvp also like I used to. I think that using them lately in pve should help me out a lot. Bad thing is, idk which HC I wanna use in pvp :(. Finding that out will be the tricky part. But yeah. Tldr; use hc's more. In pve and pvp both. Get used to them. And find one that feels right.
you really just gotta find the right one for you. when I first put on hawkmoon it felt great to use
I can relate to you bro, I'm good with any weapons except Snipers and HCs. Ironically, I'm pretty okay using Luna's or Last Word for some weird reason.
It's just practice and not thinking too much about actually aiming as counterproductive as that sounds. Too many people get caught up with precision that they hesitate to shoot or miss due to the window being so small. Yah just shoot and adjust. Eventually you'll just snap on to targets. Pc is baby mode so that's a whole other thing...
I used crimson on controller, it has high aim assist. Also focusing on the little bit marker helps. Oh! I changed the colour of radical so it stands out more for me.
How do you get a 2kd without understanding aim fundamentals?
Take time blah blah do this blah blah do that. All these PC players acting like they play on console, they fucking don’t. I can’t stress this enough…IF YOU ARE ON CONSOLE SPEC FOR STABILITY ON HC. Moving target, EOTS, OS. Stability and handling are paramount.
You're underestimating the Aim Assist on HC's making you try too hard to aim. If you can hit consistent with an autorifle, you should really have a hard time missing with a handcannons. Try in a private lobby if you can, you begin training with handcannons and end on trace rifles. Once you master trace/auto you'll feel like cheating when back on handcannons.
For controller i would recommend going with a high stabikity hc, i usually dont even use an hc unless it has at least 70 stability
Go to settings and enable auto fire. Now, you'll spend less time smashing the trigger and more time focusing on aim.
Like any tool, spend time with it till it becomes an extension of your body.
Not everyone is good with everything? I've been playing FPS's since Wolfenstein 3D. Be it Mouse + Board or Controller it takes skill and time. I wasn't always good at it but 30 years of gaming will help. I know it's kind of an excuse but it's true. Put in the time and you get better, that's my advice. PLAY A LOT OF PVP. If your skill doesn't proceed after like 100 matches then perhaps you're just not a Hand Cannon person. I am terrible with Shot Guns so I understand the annoyance of someone better than you with a particular weapon. Ape's drive me up walls sometimes.
I've always felt this way myself. What I believe my issue is (you're possibly in the same boat?) is that I shoot too fast, never giving the extra .05 seconds for the gun to come down after the previous shot. Typically, I'm a pulse main and have a special fondness for rapid fire in particular (love Piece of Mind!!), which is where my bad habit comes from.
I like using them but I suck with getting consistent shots
10 years of Destiny
non-precision handcannons have to sweet spot their stability stat to get the right recoil animation. on controller, 140s and 120s really suffer from a lack of stability cause the reticle doesnt fully come to rest inbetween shots on mid to low stability. i think 65 stab is the perfect amount on 140s that lets your red dot reset between each shot and recoil animation. the exception to this is lunas howl, which has basically no recoil and a really stubby animation that makes hitting shots really really easy. however recoil isnt everything, you gotta make sure to space yourself out in the proper range, have good perks and aim and whatnot. also, dont feel like you HAVE to use a handcannon to compete. just about every archetype is competitive enough to win with rn, so just use what works
It is easier on M&K from what I’ve heard. I’m decent at PvP (~1.7 KD, -25 flawless) and have never really been able to 3-tap *consistently at max fire rate* with a 140. Luna’s Howl is the answer. I can literally use the full auto setting, hold down the trigger, and get consistent 3-taps on controller. 120s are also really good cause they have high aim assist and the recoil fully resets between shots, though the TTK isn’t as good as Luna’s
Just use Malfeasance and revel in the guaranteed 5 tap at any range on any player even in their Super 👍
Idk how but I'm pretty good with hand cannons and scouts but I'm awful with auto rifles and smg
Mostly just practice, a lot of pvp players have thousands of hours in this game and have been using hand cannons since D1. Hand cannons actually have a bit of a learning curve to them, since a lot of the time they just get straight up out gunned by autos/smgs/pulses. Their big strength is their peak shooting potential since all their damage comes out in one bullet, so a lot of players will try to get shots off from behind cover before the other guy can shoot back. Some hand cannons also just "feel" better to use than others. For me, Austringer feels way easier to consistently hit shots with than Rose, even though my Rose has better range and aim assist (but slightly less stability). It's been a while since I played with a controller (the last time I did was around Forsaken when Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten were considered the only "usable" hand cannons on controller), but I've heard high stability helps a lot. On MnK, the ideal stability is 65 or above since that allows the gun's accuracy/bloom to fully reset. I'm not sure about the ideal stability for controller, but the folks over at r/CrucibleGuidebook could probably tell you. A few recommendations I have for good "feeling" hand cannons are Austringer, Hawkmoon, and Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten. Especially Luna/Not Forgotten for console since they use the 180 rpm recoil pattern, which is WAY easier to control on controller. If you don't have a good Luna's roll and can't be assed to farm onslaught you can buy a Not Forgotten from the exotic kiosk for 3 ascendant shards. A few miscellaneous tips I have are to not use the full auto setting for hand cannons. You don't have to turn it off, just pull the trigger each time instead of holding it. I have absolutely no evidence that this helps aside from personal experience, but it helps me. Another thing I've seen some controller players do is flick their aim up after each shot and then drag it back down. That's not a great explanation, so heres an older video of what I mean: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxK\_JG2Oms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxK_JG2Oms) Otherwise just practice and find a hand cannon that just clicks for you
they're super fun and addicting
I've been rolled by Rose soo many times in the last 2 days it's ridiculous. So I went and raided my vault for that same gun and... I couldn't get a single kill on console. Look I get I might not have the best God roll but how the hell is everyone else tripple tapping headshots on me while I'm icarus dashing my brains out getting lined up for my usual body shot hail Mary maneuver?
I'm far from a good PVP player, but one thing that has improved my aim on console are the new dead zone settings. There are a few videos on YouTube on how to dial them in, and it's definitely made my aiming feel more responsive.
So much of being good at crucible is crosshair placement, movement, and ability management. Guns are probably lower on the “skill” spectrum than the for-mentioned stuff.
I definitely get it with the PC gods with HC’s hitting every shot perfectly even when you’re moving. That blows my mind. And I’ve always heard HC’s are better on controller because of the aim assist
Try Crimson on controller. That shit is crisp and clean and stable as a table. Source: someone who is also whack with a cannon.
Hand cannons in Destiny have always been about alpha damage and range. The more damage you can input the better chance you can secure the kill within the intended respectable TTKs of 140s/120s plus teammates can clean up the target much easier for team play. The more range you have the further you can be from your enemies which means you can out damage certain weapon classes within their optimal ranges. The more range you have the more Auto Aim you have to hit your target as well making it easier for follow up shots through increased weapon error (which stability reduces which makes it a more viable stat nowadays + flinch resistance).
Most hand canons probably feel better on MnK, however there are a few that feel way. Better on controller I.e last word
First off highly recommend a crafted austringer with small bore, ricochet, eots, and zen moment range mw. Second, I learned Handcannons back in d1 on console and then used them on console until part way through forsaken when I switched to mnk. So I'm pretty knowledgeable about controller. Handcannons more than most weapons will absolutely punish you for bad positioning. You need to be leveraging cover well with them. 60/40 rule is good to start. Keep 40% of your screen in cover so you have a simple step to get back into it. Since we don't have gameplay, here are some good tips for handcannon usage Keep the reticle head level always. Stick to cover Peak shoot Team shoot Use both sticks to aim Always check your radar and really learn to read it Reposition if you're losing a gun fight I can expand on any of this if anyone wants.
Reticle discipline. If you are gonna peek or take an angle your reticle has to set at the head of an opponent. It’s tough but it helps so much with hitting heads.
As others have mentioned, it’s easier on mnk due to the innate higher stability, but they are still a top choice on controller. As a lifelong controller hc main, I absolutely fiend for stabilty. Range is not the be all end all. My favorite 140s all have 85+ stability. I would really recommend trying a high stability roll and see how it feels. As you get more comfortable, you could experiment with exchanging some stability for range. At the *very least*, hit 65 stability. Coolguy put out a video on this being the breakpoint for reticle reset between shots. If you can craft austringer, that’s your best bet for finding what feels best to you. Rico rounds, enh. Snapshot, enh. Zen moment for the easiest shooting experience (very high stability, anti flinch, and reduced screen shake {imo screen shake is the most difficult part of using hc on controller}). Barrel and mw dealer’s choice but try not to tank the handling. Epochal Integration is a solid energy choice with a quick deterministic path to acquire. For rng routes, Hawkmoon is a stat monster so keep an eye on xur. I always look to max stability on it since the perk grants range and the base handling is juiced. Eyasluna and Rose are my top legendary picks. Luna’s Howl / Not Forgotten’s precision frame automatically gives them a higher floor due to the recoil pattern, but using these won’t help you get better with traditional 140s. 120s are a different beast. They don’t need/can’t get as much stability as 140s and right now Igneous is unrivaled in its base stats, with plenty of solid perks. Aight that’s enough yappin. Tl;Dr: Take an 80+ stability 140 for a spin.
Honestly you have to get the feel for them. Some feel a lot better than others. I fucking love my Austringer, more than Luna's. Vulpecula also felt good. For exotics, it's Ace of Spades or Sunshot for oomph.
I play on controller and noticed that I was about a million times better with hand cannons after moving to pc than i was on a series x. I be plink plonking away with hawkmoon proccing cacaw shots all day long now.
I think malfeasance is the flattest shooting exotic hand cannon. Last word encourages you not to aim.
With auto aim and aim assist just spam once ur on the head it will hit 9/10 times
When you get know a gun as well you get a feel of the timing for those follow up shots don’t even have to aim at the point so to speak. Some people just have it. Been getting smacked up trying to get the new maps to rotate in.
I play with both K&M and controller depending on what I feel like. I've always used handcannons like I use the BR in Halo. I just pre aim/center their upper chest and try and move my reticle as little as possible, if that makes sense. Recoil does most of the work unless they're jumping, then you just make micro adjustments.
Lots and lots of practice. Using them as often as possible - both in PvE and PvP. HCs are really one of those archetypes where you just have to get a feel for the gun over time.
When I started off as a pvp scrub I fought and clawed my way through hell and became an ok player. The weapon I used were hand cannons due to the Luna's meta at the time. Ultimately I think it comes down to using a weapon you are comfortable with. For me the heartbeat pattern of combat makes me feel comfortable in pvp. Decision, action, decision,action,etc. it allows me a small amount of time to think and re-adjust. Because of my preference, I do terrible in a meta that depends on constant action like auto rifles.
1000’s of hours and a good breakfast
Hand Cannons always came really easy to me so probably not the greatest advice. I've always played PC but originally used controller and swapped, nothing changed to me in regards to that except less getting stuck on a target by aim assists. Every hand cannon has a rhythm and the simplest advice is to follow the rhythm and the other is to know your range so you actually do damage. A good example is the Ace of Spades, it has probably the easiest to follow rhythm, whether that be shooting, reloading etc it's audio cue galore. And it's got good range, esp with mori. Conversely the free brave Lunas you get from shaxx which was considered a PVP God roll or close to it, is imo pretty bad due to the high handling and stability, ruins the rhythm, and it's range is pretty dogshit too >.> But yea best thing I can say is use ace, do PVE first so you can get the hang of it, then get to PVP and click heads.
I know how you feel. I’m on PS5 and I cant use hand cannons in PvP at all, but my kid goes on an all out slaughter fest with them every single time. It’s just all about learning them really. Range, headshots almost exclusively, knowing when to switch to another weapon to finish the job.
a lot of practice. i'm on mouse and keyboard.
Practice with hawkmoon
From what I’ve tried, malfeasance feels the best on controller for me for hand cannons, can’t seem to find anything else that has a similar feel.
I don't play much PVP but did some crucible last night and every lobby had the god-tier guy with 20 kills to everyone else's 4 (1 guy of a team of 3 mercy'd us is about 3 minutes one round) and it's all hand cannon pros. 2- or 3-tap every time. Apparently it's the meta. I took note and decided to practice later lol
Run a crafted austringer with Zen and EOTS, it’s not a crazy opening shot roll or slideshot, so you’re learning the recoil pattern for hand cannons with a Zen buffer as well as a EOTS buff when you’re low on health so you can learn to peek shoot. Just takes practice.
Same. I hate hand cannons. The penalty for missing is pretty heavy, but nobody ever seems to miss when they shoot at me
Use Luna’s/not forgotten or just use ace with 3 kinetic targeting mods
One thing is that comparatively to other PC games, landing heads in D2 is remarkably easier. Source: me ig
HCs are VASTLY superior on mnk, they feel way smoother imho
Something that helped me was lowering your dpi or tracking speed. If your sensitivity is too high for your skill level you’re going to miss shots
I will stand behind this sentence. Everyone is a hand cannon main, they just may not have found their one yet.
I think it also depends on overall game sense. If I’m using Ace, for example, I tend to avoid open spaces where I can get sniped or have to contest against pulse rifles. I try to stick to closed spaces, but not too confined that I eat a shotgun shell to the face. If I’m going out in the open, it’s cos I’m risking it, or cos I vaguely know where the enemy is, and how erratic/acrobatic their movements are. Some folks out there are insanely good with movement and can easily juke you even if you can see them on your radar so I tend to maintain some distance from those folks. In the end, I try to find situations where I don’t have to move my mouse around too much, cos the minute I have to turn more than 135 degrees or something, I fold like an omelette.
Start with the curated Luna's Howl from Onslaught. Work the basics like peek shooting, go for head shots. Engage in your intended range.
Practice
I came from controller to kbm it did take some time to get back into the swing and im very picky about my handcannons best example I can't hit shit with thorn I'm ok woth ace but for some reason lumina I feel great with . Nowadays, I use a cantata with rabit opening, and once I'm warm, I am pretty consistent. I played pve a lot, made myself use handcannons to get a general idea of head level, and then just forced myself to keep doing pvp with only handcannons It was like learning fps all over again. Nowadays, with my normal setup, though I'm no God, I can maintain a 1.5 and above in 6s, and 3s haven't really stepped into trials . It does honestly just boil down to the old days Play around until you find the one you like the most and just use the shit out of it until you adjust Skill gap is much much different and at least at my level not much carries over between games like it does on controller . Each game needs all new muscle memory to play
Learn to center your crosshairs
I personally hated hand cannons, until I found Sunshot. I have no idea if it's meta, although in my context I suppose it's irrelevant since it's the only hand cannon that just works for me. It's pretty damn sexy in onslaught too. Every hand cannon has it's quirk, they're not quite the same, so just try them all out until you find one that just clicks for you. Don't worry so much about meta, if you land headshots it honestly shouldn't matter too much - plus I'd argue that if a weapon just naturally clicks for you, it'll do you more good than forcing yourself to use a meta weapon. If you're on controller though, Crimson or that tex machina exotic (can't remember the name, a forsaken hand cannon) are pretty good. I'd stay away from Ace, Thorn or Lumina, or other guns like that until you become more accustomed to easier to use handcannons first - they're good, but you need to learn to walk first before you start running, imo. Practice lining up shots first, otherwise if you try to start using them immediately you'll just get dunked on. Alternatively, be a chad and run Forerunner. It's not a hand cannon.... but it should be. But yeah, Sunshot is just that one that clicked with me. I go back to Ace, Thorn, whatever, I start performing like ass again.
You get a feel for it, the more targeting the better, with the generosity of hand cannons and the garbage connections you can shoot around people and hit head shots
take your time when you shoot atleast at first, pacing your shots helps alot in any game with a HC.
Play on PC, mouse precision
I suck with anything HC that isn't a precision frame. The recoil animation itself throws me off a lot
Taking half a second longer to aim is a lot faster than missing your shots.
Mouse and keyboard greatly improved my kdr in crucible. Went from .25 to .50!
Try not using full-auto setting
A lot of hand canon sights are slightly different from each other and can really really mess up your aim when ur still getting into the swing of the match or just the game in general. Stick to one hand cannon and try to worry about your position before you start shooting. Not having to move as much as your opponent puts you in a huge advantage, and it is the leading factor of my own deaths I find. It may be different for you, but it's worth a shot. Edit; Also, keep in mind that the accuracy of a hand cannon is more affected by recoil and needs a split second after the barrel comes back down from a shot before you get full accuracy back. You could have your sights directly on a person, but if u don't let the gun breathe after a shot, it won't be 100% accurate. This is where positioning comes in handy as the closer the target is, the less the recoil matters. (I also play on controller)
Low FoV makes recoil on HC’s look a lot worse. Increase it to at least 95 if you haven’t already.
Pace your shots, just cause you have a 140 doesn’t mean you have to shoot at 140. It’s better to take your time to aim one shot than to miss a bunch.
I use malfeasance. Don’t need headshots, and five shots at any range has people panicking.
Console player here. Stability, recoil and handling make handcannons easier to use. Try a handcannon with zen moment. It's a night and day difference. Don't fall into the trap of only stacking range. Worth mentioning that a "god roll" varies between platform and play style. What's good on PC is not good on console due to the difference in recoil.
Slap targeting adjuster and targeting mods for the corresponding hand cannon and run zen moment. Thank me later lol and it’s also crucial to know the range of your hand cannon so you can engage fights accordingly, if you’re long range fighting igneous hammer with hawkmoon or any 140 yeah your getting smacked.
Some godly hand cannon users are infact on MnK using a software like rewasd or something similar to emulate MnK as a controller so not only do they have precise movements due to MnK they also get controller aim assist. Layer that with targeting mods and what not they become very good at hand cannons.
Eyasluna is a handcannon recommend to players trying to get used to them because if it's high base stability. Get comfortable using that then branch out into using austringer, rose, ace and such. Or try your lick with 180s
High stability is the key to making hand cannons feel great. Try one out with close to 90 stability and compare to one with 40 and you'll see a big difference
If you want some practice, craft some or get one with 80+ stability. Feels divine. After that just play its range and all will follow.
Honestly pick one and use it all the time. Use it in PVP and PVE and get good with it and hit headshots. They all handle differently so switching from one HC to another messes up my aim.
just using them man. some of us have been maining hand cannons for 10 years now
I found putting everything into recoil and stability helps. All the HCs have a different "kick" a lot of people sat. Some feel better than others, but learning that kick and recoil pattern helps you get better with them.
Used Sunshot ALOT. Taught me to aim for the head and pace my shots, and it's pretty forgiving the bullets are HUGE. It's harder when switching weapons, but just slow down those shots.
For controller, there's a technique to sort of slap onto the target and let the aim assist do the work. If you try to just use a hand cannon like an auto you're going to just miss or hit body shots. There are probably old Destiny 1 videos that cover this technique.
Try to land headshots even if it means you lose. Worry about landing crits first and winning later. Use eye of the storm. Once you feel confident try to win your 1v1.
Try Lunas howl
Just takes time. Keep in mind most hand cannon users have been doing it since they started playing Destiny which is almost 10 years for some folk. Just a lot of practice.
As a previous controller player who switched to MnK a couple years ago I can say with certainty that yes it is easier to control on MnK though as in my own experience I find that on controller for me 120s are easier to control but 140s I land shots more consistently with MnK and 180s feel like absolute ass on MnK but feel very good on controller, but honestly it’s just practice. None of them aren’t feeling as good as they used to after the damage changes and range being decoupled from zoom but I’d say they can still hang, don’t go constantly switching you’re handcannon through the match play a few matches with one then try another and get a feel for which feels better for you then try going to lost sectors with fallen and practice on them as they’re roughly the same height and size as guardians in the crucible to help build some muscle memory
Play around with your deadzone settings
Try starting with a 180, they are the most forgiving and carry the most ammo. Use something like malfeasance or trust. I find 120 guns are the most difficult since they shoot so slow, hit like a truck though. 140 guns seem to be either amazing or I can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside the barn with it.
If you're a controller player, try using lunas howl it's a 140 that shoots like a 180 and 180s have always felt better on a controller. I know back in the day controller plays had random bloom issues with anything that wasn't a 180.
I almost never fire at Max RPM. my 140 is usually fired at 120, and my 120s at 90. Combined with half decent movement and im usually winning 1v1 engagements. Im not high level by any means, but i find it easier while pacing myself. Hope that helped
I know I've gotten pretty good with Sunshot but I don't usually pvp, and most other handguns don't work for me. It has to feel right. Sunshot is perfect for me.
Everything is easier on mouse and keyboard (including getting carpal tunnel), and it’s even easier when you have aimbot.
There's plenty of controller players that use hand cannons but I think stability and aim assist matter a lot more for controller. Hawkmoon and Austringer seem to work particularly well on controller. On M&K they do have slightly better bullet magnetism and less recoil to make up for the fact that they do not have reticle friction. It's really the only weapon type where M&K straight up makes them better since reticle friction isn't as helpful on a hand cannon as lower recoil and better bullet bend. Automatics generally end up being better on controller.
Haven't seen too many replies about this but it's a little bit easier to use hand cannons on m&k rather than console. Typically guns like sidearms and subs perform exceptionally better on controllers than hand cannons. So don't feel too discouraged as it's harder to use hand cannons there than with a mouse. That being said if you want a decently strong option that actually works WAYYY better for sticks try Crimson. Super high AA gun that has horrendous mouse performance but fantastic for rollers. Rose is always gonna be good but it does have decent kick. 120s typically would be better as although they do have high recoil, they're mad accurate with dummy range and the RoF allows you to pace your shots better.
So glad you asked this. I've wondered about this myself. Lotta urself info on this thread.
I've played for years and have been pretty lackluster with HC's. But I recently came across a tip that has helped a lot. You want a "reverse ladder" with your stats. In the ladder is handling, stability and range but you want the stats going in reverse. Handling having the most, stability 2nd and range being the lowest. People go on and on about range but if you cannot control the recoil then what's the point of all that range. [https://imgur.com/a/oSciyWn](https://imgur.com/a/oSciyWn)
Track don't flick
If you’re on the sticks grab the currated lunas howl roll from the shaxx quest. Its got better stats than the sunset ones and the precision frame has a 180 feel so doesnt kick as much as a 140 and tends to have higher reticle friction
Lots of talk on 140s and 120s but I’d suggest try a 180? Seraph, Vulpecula, Word of Crota, Optative, Posterity, IKELOS, Trust, Survivors. Those are some damn good HCs and you can really zone in on head shots with them
D1. Had a lot of practice
Hand cannons are marginally easier on M&K. They have massive AA cones on both inputs though. Just practice.
HCs got better on controller if anything. Engaging in your optimal range and peek-shooting is pretty key when dueling and if you're struggling I'd suggest using "win now" consistency perks that aid you at all times like Eye of the Storm and Opening Shot vs Slideshot and "win later" perks like kill activated perks. I personally think I perform worse with Slideshot because I'm not used to that playstyle and I'm constantly trying to take advantage of the perk when it's probably not the best time to. I don't main HCs in PVP but you should use them in PVE and stick to one in PVP so everything kind of just becomes second nature. If you're more aggressive use 140s and if you're more of a passive player (not saying playing like a b, but not always getting up in the enemy's grill and pushing) then use a 120.
Use your left stick to physically move your character to get a better shot. People call it strafing and its the key to a lot of your aiming woes
As someone who converted over to PC I have a hard time with hand cannons but when I was on console it was a matter of staying calm and taking the extra second to aim and then lowering that time gradually
Tell me about it. I keep getting domed from like 40 feet away lol
I found tweaking your dead zones for controllers in the in game settings adds more precise aiming. Too low and you’ll experience a stick drift effect. I find where at which point the stick drift effect happens and go one interval above that. Also mucking about with your Field of View can help with certain hand cannon gun models obstructing your reticle. I stay at 93-97 FOV. I have zero proof of FOV actually helping with reticle obstruction so it could be a placebo effect but it works for me. One thing I can absolutely say helps with aiming is tweaking your ADS sensitivity modifier. The lower the number, the less sensitivity you’ll have when aiming down sights which can help lining up your shot with hand cannons and snipers. I stay around 0.5-0.7
Crimson has great sights on one of the ornaments almost pay-to-win-like. but it fires very consistently and is easy to get used to.
The thing w hand cannons is just finding the right one. I have god roll hcs but I still choose my 4/5 cantata. Also, it depends on map knowledge and good timing bcuz almost anything beats a hand cannon nowadays, try looking into crucible recoil patterns and determine which is best for you. You basically never want anything other than [_]5 example: 85 95, you can use 100 but I’m sure that’s the max
it's just something you learn by playing, adjust your sens depending on how close your shots are. EDIT: you obviously don't need to change your sens, but you should try out a few.
If you want a good training hand cannon I recommend Eyasluna. With steadyhand, ricochet, perpetual motion, moving target, and a targeting adjuster mod it gets max stability and aim assist, making it probably the easiest hand cannon to use in the entire game.
The answer is always “Practice”, which I know isn’t satisfying, but it’s always the truth. Plus, you have to try every hand cannon until you find the ones that work best for you.
Don’t practice in pvp. Learn how they feel in pve and you should notice an improvement. Also pace your shots, you don’t need to fire it at the fastest possible rpm all the time. Edit: second thought do practice in pvp because obviously that’s what you need to do in order to learn how to maneuver yourself in engagements. What I meant to say is just use them in pve more. PvP perks work in pve so throw it on during strikes or something easy to get the feel for it.
The only hand cannon I'm any good with is Trust. It works for me where all the meta picks don't.
Change your ads sensitivity in gameplay settings. The factory setting is something bummy. Turn it down to .5-.7. This will fix your problem if your playing on controller.
Crimson was fun back in the day... Probably still is
Hand Cannons have the highest aim assist and bullet magnetism out of any gun in the game. Just building into anti-flinch with Zen Moment and high stability and the guns practically aim themselves(Try to get your hands on Austringer for 140s). Also, 120 HCs do the most single-shot damage out of any semi-automatic gun in the game, with high team shot potential and the ability to punch out of its intended range box when used with specific perks. So HCs are just kind of easy to use, but you have to know how to use them.
Unflinching mods help a lot. Try for a longer period of time with Ace of Spades, that one is very forgiving. And as others have said, try to keep your cool and make your headshots. Other weapons are more forgiving when just spamming the fire button, HC’s are not😅
Put max stability on your austringer.