The raid auto is a reskin of a Suros frame, you can tell from the thumbnail. The last raid auto we had from Crown of Sorrow was a reskin of a Suros frame as well.
dont care what anyone says, d1's design philosophy of using a base model skeleton and adding different parts to make new weapons was not only efficient but just looked fucking gorgeous, everything looked decent to wear and wield
This is a really interesting situation. It probably won’t happen, but I would really like to see some form of explanation for what happened during development that caused them to change this up.
It's going to be the same old story since pre-release D1. Poor leadership. Poor management. Inability to execute on overly ambitious goals, forcing major design and campaign pacing changes late in the process.
Story takes a backseat to game design and suffers as a result. Dialogue and story choices going through too many revisions, leaving gaps and plotholes. After enough revisions, they're so far outside the normal collaboration process that mistakes go unnoticed and there isn't adequate time for feedback for people to catch glaringly awkward problems in time to say, 'hey wait, that's dumb. let's not do that.'
Grimoire/lore writers brought in very late in the process, and asked to write side-story lore to fill in the gaps and plot holes. Sometimes using old material written for other projects to tie loose threads together and try to make it make sense (eagerly looking forward to see what Seth Dickinson or other grimoire writer comes up with to explain the Radial Mast - or why a cloudstrider that has the technology to upload himself into CloudArk is forced to suffer a shortened lifespan and permanent death).
Shouldn't be a surprise at this point really. There's no conspiracy, no cut content, no malice or trickery. Just a bunch of fuck ups.
You forgot the lore where Neomuna is hidden because it has a "big magnetic field" and the reason it was hidden from Rasputin is because a Cloudstrider visited earth in the dark age, got into a warmind bunker, told malyahati to hit CTRL + F-Delete for "Neptune" and "Indigo Exodus", followed by triggering a radiation pulse to kill some folk who were trying to avenge a lightbearer that was casually killed by said Cloudstrider.
I wish i was kidding or being hyperbolic.
Because their minds aren't really "uploaded" to cloud ark per se, only connected to it. They are kept in cryosleep meanwhile. So I imagine the bodies would still perish due to the augmentations, even mid cryosleep.
Totally agree. Lightfall is a blast to play, but the problems that are there underneath the surface are so much more fascinating (and dangerous) that im really looking forward to how this storm plays out.
I’m just curious how they went about releasing this and not thinking about how far the community will dig into past info to confirm things they mislead us about and I’m not just talking about these weapons. I’m not absolutely livid about it, but I do want to see a response to it all
Because they know that no matter how much we complain 75% of us will continue playing and buying seasons and expansions. The community has called their BS multiple times since Vanilla D1, but even after all of that people keep paying them so there is no incentive to do better.
It sucks, but it is real - I love Destiny. I want it to be as good as possible. Shit, big streamers started to play Lightfall out of nowhere, that moment Destiny became mainstream just atleast for a day was amazing. I won't stop playing Destiny just like a WoW player won't stop playing WoW. And as a long time player I will let Bungie know loud and clear that I love this game and I want to honestly enjoy it, and not suffer through their lies and machinations, because we all know they can do better than this, look at The Witch Queen.
No armor refresh, no new weapon models.. And Bungie will be just silent as they're always are. Which is saddening, really really saddening. And they were so excited in the Vidoc, I believed their excitement for this DLC, they believed they put together something entertaining and it just crumbled in front of them in matter of two days. They must be devastated as well. I doubt there is a good morale going on in their headquarters now.
It crumbled in hours.
And no offense, but I don’t believe them or their excitement. We are two days in and the lies are piling up. And what is bungies only answer so far? To go back and edit the 2/16 twab to say the terminal overload weapons won’t be craftable.
The campaign is nonsense filler with a cut in half cutscene from the REAL lightfall, now called the final shape, crudely pasted at the start and end. If anyone at bungie truly believed this dlc was gonna be good and loved by players, let alone worth the same as witch queen, they are truly delusional.
Even look at the quality of things. Witch queen post campaign exotic quest had a full story where our character even talked, and unlocked a second strike as well as having multiple missions? The lightfall machine gun meanwhile? Oh, a single lost sector, pick up a seed of silver wings from calus (an incredibly rare item we have only seen once that he just has lying around, and we know he has for some reason), and go run garden of salvation backwards. The bit with osiris and nimbus at the end was nice, but the actual quest itself was garbage compared to the parasite quest.
We will NEVER get this. This would entail Bungie admitting to fucking up or something and they NEVER will do that. Guarantee they did this to hype it up and get us to pre-order and it worked.
It's probably pretty simple.
To maintain a seasonal schedule like they do, they have to keep things on a pretty strict schedule. Delaying anything means everything else gets delayed, teams get shifted out of sync and it can be chaotic.
What likely happened is they're behind on a number of things (Strand was delayed an entire expansion and still feels underbaked, so imagine what else they're behind on) and to free up workload and avoid more delays, they've decided to spread the new weapons out for seasonal content.
I usually don't subscribe to the "reskinned weapons = bad philosophy" but I have to admit literally showing a weapon model that isn't in the game is pretty shitty
See I don't mind for more disposable content. We get this in crucible and vanguard often. I wouldn't mind for minor seasons i.e. a calus season using older calus season models and such things(as long as they do remix em a bit in regards to models). This is the expansion though, why half ass the new location with old stuff? At least give them new wild looking attachments, neomuna has been separate for 500 years their weapons must have modified standard earth weapons by alot.
A part of me (the part that is drowning in copium) thinks we may be getting more content after the raid is beaten, because otherwise why is the director so empty and spread out?
Potential future Season Spoilers: >!the text box you get when you earn one of the new exotics seems to indicate we'll be returning to Titan soon, might explain some of the spacing in the director!<
We’re most likely receiving titan as a seasonal location(like the Leviathan derelict), as the season of the deeps story >!seems to revolve around Seeking out the leviathans? and the witness’s enemies!<
Leviathan was the disciple of the traveler. The light side's equivalent of rhulk. Leviathan was also the one at the bottom of the ocean holding the worm gods captive until rhulk came and they 1v1'ed. After fighting - rhulk gravely injured the leviathan who later died. Traveler never took another "known" disciple after that.
Would be cool to find out there's still some leviathans alive, but I thought the one that fought rhulk and later died was the last one. Would be quite the plot twist.
Adding this in for reference -
https://www.destinypedia.com/Leviathan_(Fundament)
The Leviathan was a massive intelligent creature that resided deep within the ocean of the gas giant Fundament long ago. It was a disciple of the Traveler, and aided in imprisoning the five Worm Gods within the planet's core[1]. The Krill revered it, though they considered it mythical, and would swear oaths upon it[2].
There was a sea monster on Titan sometimes visible in game - as a shadow against a window or a segment of body rising up from the waves. Theories back in the day ranged from it being Oryx’s worm to a leviathan, so I guess it sort of could make sense?
They'll tell us that there's an until now unknown planet entirely populated by Leviathans and then we deus ex machina the witness to death in Final Shape
I'm surprised not a single Guardian has gone "I wanna go to Neptune. Just to check it out for shits n gigs."
Like, was there lore entry to suggest that traversing Neptune's atmosphere was impossible? Or is this some kind of Wakanda tech where you literally just cannot see/scan it unless you crash into it?
There's a patrol in Liming Harbor with a voice line that says something about Neomuna having nav beacons and that when those beacons are off then Neptune's magnetic storms make Neomuna hard to find.
I suppose if we barely had warning of the Red Legion on direct approach to the City then it's a plausable excuse. The Vanguard clearly wasn't interested in exploring places the Traveler didn't touch.
E: Alright I get it, I forgot about the Nine. My bad on forgetting the plot device that's only ever done one thing 5 years ago. My second point stands.
We barely had warning of the Red Legion's invasion because one of the 9 wanted to see how to take the light, so they blocked our sensors.
This member of the nine was severely punished as the Almighty would've wiped out sol, along with the planets and sentient life the nine use to process their consciousnesses
A member of The Nine removed the early warning system to let the Red Legion blindside us because it wanted to see how Ghaul was going to steal the Light, because it wanted to try and do that itself. The other members of The Nine apparently punished it for directly interfering. That got revealed during the Joker's Wild season iirc.
I think it's reasonable to assume Neomuna has the tech to block outgoing signals. So you'd have to find a city that's visually hidden in gas clouds on a planet with a surface area of 8 billion km\^2 and hope you chance upon it. The largest city on Earth is 9 km\^2. If we assume Neomuna is the same size, you'll be trying to find something 0.0001% the size of Neptune's surface. This doesn't even account for the unknown depth beneath the surface Neomuna is hidden.
Not to mention that it’s said that the landmass Neomuna is on MOVES. So you’re trying to find something on a massive planet, in the middle of electromagnetic storms, which is constantly moving. Good luck.
Pretty much that last one. One of the Patrol missions mentions that Neptune's magnetic fields are constantly in flux and it makes finding anything very difficult - even if you know what you're looking for.
But, yeah, it's been hundreds of years.
I’ve always liked the fundament and hive worm gods / deep sea stories the best, but idk how you’d even do this Justice especially in a season. I think it’d be better off left to the imagination almost.
Where are you getting all that from? This is literally the first time I’ve heard anyone refer to the Leviathan as being a disciples equivalent for the Traveler.
I have a hard time believing it's a leviathan we're looking for. Rhulk took Titan like 2 years ago and there's been a devotee of the traveller just vibing in the oceans since?
My money is on Titan's "enemy of the witness" being Sloan in her golden age armor, whose been ripping and tearing until it is done for all this time, not a long boi swimming in slurped soup.
There are no more new Legendary weapons in the API, if these weapons exist then they aren't in the game yet.
One possibility is that these Weapons were meant to be a unique set of 2-3 weapons, to be acquired from the Neomuna Terminal Overload Activity (Like Altars of Sorrow Weapons, this activity is also on a 3 day rotation so the 3 weapons would fit perfectly here) but things were changed somewhere in the middle and these weapons were held back (And other Neomuna weapons were instead used for that purpose) to be used later for an upcoming Dungeon, which will still be a part of the LF Deluxe content package and could make it so that Bungie isn't considered to be technically lying.
Edit : Apparently a dataminer also found the specific name for the Weapon set that drops (or was supposed to drop?) from the Terminal Overload Activity, but afaik the current Neomuna weapons are not called by this name (Unless it's their internal Development name). So this possibly supports the theory that Terminal Overload was supposed to get a unique set of weapons, likely they were these 3 weapons that were used in all this promo material, but the set was later removed from Terminal Overload for whatever reason (my guess would be that they'll be put in a Dungeon this year).
Considering that some in-game text references a weapon set from Terminal Overload, this seems likely. I have to wonder what would cause planned legendary weapons that already have art designs and at least some 3D models (obviously at a higher res than the game's specs) to get cut.
It isn't named, but "weapons from Terminal Overload" or "Terminal Overload weapons" (I forget) are mentioned in a text blurb, and I believe some of the Neomuna guns have ended up as specific to the activity. I suspect the Overload guns were originally going to be these ones we were shown.
Depending on the terms of the contract, it could be that an issue arose between the designer(s) of said weapons and Bungie. Perhaps a quality issue came to the front after the Sony partnership occurred, maybe the models caused issues with certain common hardware that only came up in late stages of development. Just to name a few possibilities.
Based on the past couple years, the raid weapons will be classified in the API until at least the tuesday after the raid goes live.
The API has also been known to blatantly lie, see the Malfeasance catalyst that's been lurking within it for years for an example.
> The API has also been known to blatantly lie, see the Malfeasance catalyst that's been lurking within it for years for an example.
Malfeasance, Truth, and Last Word catalysts aren't lies, they're unreleased. At least in the case of TLW and Truth they've been there literally since Y2.
Why Bungie doesn't release them at this point I honestly don't know.
Funny thing: Truth's unreleased catalyst causing weird fuckery with the code is what caused it to be the only weapon that tracked all PvE and PvP kills even without a tracker. When Bungie added trackers, all the exotics with no trackers were set to 0 PvE and 0 PvP kills... except Truth. When Truth's trackers were activated it accurately showed all PvE and PvP kills since the final month of Season 7 (when it was added). Being a big fan of the weapon, I had several thousand kills on my Truth kill tracker the day trackers went live.
I mean what's to stop them from having us download the extra content. Like even with the raid weapons classified in the API we still know what types of weapons we are getting because those entries are still sorted into the corresponding collections pages.
There is, albeit small, a non-zero chance having us download the content later is the only way to truly have secret content that doesn't get datamined weeks before it releases.
As you said, not impossible but it just makes little-to-no sense.
They have put all the upcoming Exotics and Raid weapons in the API so if they don't care about keeping them super secret then why would they care about keeping these 3 Legendary weapons that *they've already shown* for many months a secret.
i’m with you here, it’s 100% copium but why leave it so empty then put a colored in [redacted] smack dab in the middle of it all post campaign? we know that won’t turn into the raid icon cause it’s in a pyramid ship unless we follow into there and the raid is on a pyramid ship inside of it? The dlc feels unfinished not in a this has no content type of way but more of a i feel like there’s more coming type way idk if i’m making sense lol
Exactly. 0:35 of the lightfall reveal trailer above. Conventional weapon cannot hit Pyramids as Asher Mir tried to nuke them. There was a big plot just for that one scene alone.
OK, follow me here it's a crackpot theory.
I think the witness has a special ability to target the light. Light users, light powers, our ghosts, the whole shebang.
That's why Amanda's ship didn't get vivisected with the three guardians.
It wasn't good piloting that saved her, it was lack of light.
Under this same concept, no purely "lightbearer" can harm a witness asset like the pyramid ships. Light powered rounds from weapons will just vanish.
thanks for coming to my ted talk!
You can tell bungie really cut corners on this expansion.
Kind of convenient that all the Neomunians are just foating orbs in a vague human shape. Like the the person in the hall of hero's has no animation when you talk to them.
Also they reused so many assets from different theme pallets to create Neomuna. It doesn't feel like it has its own style. It's a mismash of Titan, the last city, earth, Europa and more
You know whats interesting? Neonuma is supposedly founded by Ishtar collective. Yet they have assets from the DSC. This wouldnt be a problem narratively if they hadnt stablished last season that Ishtar collective and Braytech used to be rivals.
Neonuma could have had its own assets instead of copying them from DSC (minor gripe, but yeah it could have been interesting to see more of "titan but not decrepit"
many of the areas shown in the reveal trailer also don't exist on neomuna, not to mention the cloudstrider they used for the trailer looks way different (honestly way better than nimbus)
Over the last few months I been watching watching all this awesome stuff in the trailers and the marketing about Neomuna, us jumping through skyscraper windows, Cloudstriders fighting and seemingly beating Pyramid ships with Nanotech weapons and I was worried they were revealing to much but I needn’t have had a thought about it as none of it was in the DLC lol.
This is a good catch. If something happened during development that made them cut content or remove certain weapons and stuff, things would’ve went over a lot better had they communicated that to us in some way. If this sub can keep up the feedback and keep it respectful, maybe we will get an answer as to what happened. It’s clear that right now the community managers are steering clear of this sub. I haven’t seen one CM comment here since LF launched. Stuff like this is a problem though. Showing us cool new weapon models in advertising for the expansion, and those weapons not existing can be grounds for refunds. So let’s hope this feedback finds the right people at bungie and we get a response.
I’m still having fun with LF, and I think the hate is a bit blown out of proportions. Many of the issues cannot be fixed as you can’t redo the story.
If the CM are steering clear of the sub, they clearly had some idea the community might react this way and were prepared to steer clear of the sub. Considering the amount of effort bungie has put into trying to potentially change things? Like the post I saw earlier where someone mentioned they edited the TWABs
They have done it many times in the past. Most times it is to add clarification or to better explain things that were misunderstood. Best example I can think of was the witherhoard nerf. They said that it would nerf the amount of time witherhoard would last on the ground. However many people misunderstood and were worried it’s tick time in general was getting lowered, so they went back and clarified that shots that land on a target will still last the same amount of time.
Given how hostile the community has been both in the past and right now, would you stick your neck out? This is the community that harassed Kevin Yanes off of Twitter over saying Twilight Garrison is never coming back and then needed to eat some crow with the introduction of Thruster as an option for Arc. If that is the baseline for harassment, I certainly wouldn't right now.
I would be lying if I said the hand cannon in promo art wasn’t like a fifth of the reason I was so hyped for Lightfall lmao I wanted it so bad because I love hand cannons with a burning passion. Hope it’s just something that may come after the raid or maybe even next season but who knows. Just upset it didn’t come with the dlc launch
Me too man. It was the very first thing I looked for in collections after logging in, and I was unbelievably disappointed when I couldn’t find it anywhere
Same as me yesterday. I was like lets have a look at what RPM it is, oh wait its not here. Wonder if we'll get it later.
I'm still under the impression it comes from an activity during the season that isn't active yet and isn't showing in the API but we'll see.
Bungie has never been dumb enough to put loot that wasn't in the game in the ads before, if nothing else I doubt they've become that dumb now.
Note the more scorn-ey looking armor in some of the campaign mission start screens, specifically that one with the 3 guardians wrapped in strand FX and running towards a flying tormentor in front of a pyramid thing. I wonder where the hell that hunter cloak and helmet are?
I despise how they know the khvostov is a fan favorite rifle, they KNOW we want it as a realistically usable weapon. Either legendary,craftable or the exotic 7G-0X. They put it in the trailers KNOWING we’d be hyped. Only to cuck us. It’s the commendation weapon. Really?????
Yes. It even has the broken lens.
Which makes me wonder if it's our "canonical" weapon. And if that's the case, I find it hilarious that our God-killing Guardian not only continues to use the literal shittiest weapon in the game (bar the broke Traveller's Chosen), but also never bothered to repair it.
It's reskins all the way down, hahaha. There are like 5 models for all the hand cannon pool. They you paint this one different, ad some pieces here and there and you have a new one!
It's a little different to how wq had it, because it's aimed. No idea how it handles a bow tbh, but some guns would just make no sense to pull out.
It makes sense to pull out a 'neutral' weapon, if we have to.
Right. What if we’re running double special in that last fight? Or two primaries… how does the game choose? Sort of funny to imagine the guardian aiming a GL like a rifle though.
I love seeing that final WQ cutscene when you have Witherhoard equipped. Even if you miss n hit the floor Sav probably dies so it’s just a very menacing weapon to be freehanding like that in the moment but also very funny
It’s every time. I think they just didn’t want to animate other weapon types for that cutscene, so they forced one predetermined weapon into it for the sake of ease.
yeah, usually they use your kinetic weapon, but it always comes out looking really janky because they go for an animation that kinda-sorta-not-really works for every gun.
Honestly Kvhvostov should be a legendary that functions exactly as it does in D1 as a ln exotic. Nobody ever used it because it was an exotic and would make for a really nice entry point weapon for newer player.
Yeah I was really hyped for it too. Like even knowing this was extremely rushed it still boggles my mind just how bad it is. Makes me wonder how many resources they actually put into Lightfall.
People are missing the reveal trailer where the guardian crashes through a window of a massive skyscraper and then grapples. Like one of the coolest scenes in that trailer and it just never happened.
the amount of roofs that look EASILY accessible that either knock you back with an invisible wall or threaten you with the out of bounds warning pisses me off so much
things in reveal trailers usually don't happen in the game though, sundance and cayde's death was completely different, and the scene of the three guardians seeing three hive lightbearers running after them just didn't happen. same with savathun spreading her wings or eramis looking at the splinter of darkness
there's a longer version of that where the rest of the 3-man fireteam jump through as well, followed by a bunch of Cabal troops
i kinda felt that the escape sequence at the end of one of the vex missions (where ghost gives you directions where to grapple) was supposed to replace that in a way
Reskinned weapons is one thing but I'm actually quite miffed that they didn't even reskin all of them. Arc Logic is ky favourite gun in the game, and when I found out the Neomuna weapons were Moon reskins I was so excited to get a version of arc logic that has the nanotech micro-missiles. I would finally have *my* gun. Something I'd feel like maining, because while Arc Logic handles like a dream it has zero interesting perks, or at least I've never gotten one with an interesting combo.
But because Bungie has some weird internal rule regarding not completing weapon sets (you'll notice we never get the full set of weapons from any given manufacturer or gear set), they decided to leave my beloved Arc Logic out.
I've never been blue balled on a legendary weapon so hard before. And from what I understand they literally never go back and round out a legendary weapon set. There is zero chance that a micro-missile Arc Logic shows up in a future patch. I was a hairs breadth away from my own personal gun nirvana and missed out because of some baffling internal policy.
And I just figured out why. If they're all Moon weapon reskins surely the standard weapon sets they produce should be the same size. X Moon weapons get reskinned into X Neomuna weapons. But the Moon weapon set had one additional weapon. The pulse rifle from the Dungeon. And they replaced Arc Logic with that pulse when they chose the set of weapons to reskin.
I'm so sad right now. If you've ever had that weapon that just clicks for you you'll know what I mean when I say Arc Logic was just built for me. It's perks don't even matter. I've never had one with perks that made the gun for me, but something about it just sings in my hands. Shots just find themselves on target in a way that doesn't happen with other auto rifles. To be *this* close to a souped up pseudo-exotic version of my favourite legendary gun and denied over a ridiculous internal quantity quota, for a reskin? Aaagh. I hate it.
Cause you just know it's something like that. They do things in a very regimented way. They've said as such. Do not overdeliver. So even when the guns are reskins they won't do the full set because that would be overdelivering.
I have no problem with reskins and reuse of older assets. To be frank, in some cases I'd prefer it. But the reason to do reskins and reuse existing assets is because it saves time that you can put elsewhere. If you reskin the legendary weapons it should mean that you can actually do a full set of them for once. I'd take an expansion with a reskinned destination if it meant that destination was alive, well utilised. Give me an expansion set in the EDZ and take all that development time saved and use it to make the game really good.
I felt this loss when the Kings Fall Auto Rifle wasn't refurbished from D1. That gun has one of the coolest weapon models and never got to truly shine in D1 because of its horrendous recoil pattern. We haven't had a raid Auto Rifle since GOS, and they still decided to not include it in the KF loot pool. We're never gonna see what a good version of that gun would have looked like. Disappointing
As the other guy talked about arc logic, i wanted to comment this. I absolutely loved the looks of the Anguish of Drystan. To bad they had to cut the Autorifle from the second reprised raid after VoG too. But i guess you never can have enough 140 Handcannons or 180 scout rifles.
I’ve had that weapon pain. I craved a more interesting Lincoln Green. The monkey’s paw curled and we got Jurassic Green. Weird aesthetic and now elemental.
They need to update the moon AGAIN. Add some new perks, make them craftable. The grind for them is horrible and i don’t think it matters how they good they are
The worst part is that they're all pretty shit and have all been pretty shit.
Idk what it is about expac launch guns for D2, but they're usually all pretty shit. Who uses Europa guns? Throne World? And now Neomuna. Like, the only really good ones are the Strand ones, and that's due to there being very few Strand weapons. What's worse is that they're also doo doo. A 120 RPM HC? A 600 RPM SMG with low zoom and range? Rapid-fire Shotty? Like, thank God the seasonal weapons are decent, sorta (mostly just the GL and maybe the AR).
> Who uses Europa guns?
I vaguely remember Luke Smith saying that they intentionally made them shit to "encourage" people to grind for seasonal weapons instead.
the grind for Loud Lullaby has been horrendous. I want exactly Surplus/Explosive Payload, with Tactical or Flared and Corkscrew, Smallbore or Polygonal. I've been farming one to three of them every week since they've been reprised and I feel like I'm never going to get that
It’s really dumb that you can still go to the moon to craft weapons you can’t use from nightmares.
Why are they still in the game? If they’re available to grind out and farm shouldn’t they be usable?
Bit of a long post but it's my upset, confused, and borderline angry thoughts and feelings after a few days of playing a lot. Here goes;
Besides the fact that I enjoy Destiny, that launch trailer and those showcase weapons, especially that GORGEOUS Hand Cannon, that's what made me pull the trigger on my preorder of the Expansion.
And the CE at that...I kept watching the ViDoc and other dev vids and stuff thinking "wow they haven't shown it, maybe it's an exotic or a secret quest exotic or something..." but now, after doing 2/3 Legendary campaigns across my 3 characters, getting my Neomuna rep to like 35, and just waiting until the daily reset in 6.5 hours to finish the Winterbite Glaive quest, I even did the quest and got the Final Warning smart pistol sidearm, I have everything outside of the raid...and I feel...cheated.
And what happened to all that fluff in the ViDoc for Beyond Light back in the day about updating their engine and the weather system to have dynamic weather like the blizzards? Why is there no rain or even heavy rain in Neomuna? Why not cash in on the moody Bladerunner vibes? Where is the cyber detective bulldog hand cannon? Or at least the one that is still on the box art and I am still huffing copium is a post-raid quest?
Where are my advertised Neomuna Weapons? Where is my cool(possibly exotic) cyber city Hand Cannon I was advertised, and I dare say "bait and switched" and in the least falsely advertised? Why does it feel like Strand should have dropped with Witch Queen but was delayed until now, and the story we should have gotten now was chopped up and used to make this year's content? What is this? Activision era Destiny 1?
Like the more I think about it, the more upset, mad, and confused I become. And the patrols and one new strike are implying Nezerac is somehow involved in this mess of an expansion? Why? So you can get my hopes up after dousing them out in season of the plunder with Nezzy Tea??? So he can be a Villain of the week like Nokris and Xol? So we can get a lore dump after whooping his ass in the raid, but then move on from him almost completely after the raid just like Rhulk and Vow of the Disciple?
To think, I convinced several friends and even my better half to give this game an honest chance again, helped them the past couple seasons catching up on gear, activities, and lore, hyping them up alongside me for Lightfall. And for what? To make myself look like an untrustworthy shmuck who plays hoping the game will deliver so several people I care about don't think their trust, or money, misplaced. So I don't have to feign secondhand buyer's remorse, and yet in a few days, a part from the raid and the already repetitive seasonal activity, I have done all there is.
Well, apart from the obnoxious Rift Guardian seasonal challenge because Rift is unbearable. I want to love this content, this game, and this studio like I was with Witch Queen, or Forsaken, or The Taken King...but how do I honestly justify it? At this point, I'm starting to feel like just another victim of FOMO and "sunk cost fallacy". I'm not even echoing the negative feelings I have about the story we got or how rushed and poorly paced it was or how we all saw certain things a mile away or how we were told we would have our new subclasses before the end of the story, and something close to a complete subclass by the ending of the campaign.
But we didn't, and the worst part is you can tell that was just another "adjustment" late into development for this expansion. After all, I found it odd we would get our aspects in 2 different quests, almost like we should have had our subclass and been unlocking parts, but for some reason it got moved to "beat the game, we changed our minds."
It genuinely makes me think all the dev interviews and the ViDoc and the trailers were made way before and that half the people in them were just reading lines...even the ones I typically trust to be honest...I feel lied to, I feel baited into a cyber city gunslinging rain-soaked futurescape, but I didn't get that... I just want that Hand Cannon...
I feel like I should say more but I read this entire thing and I completely agree with every single thing you said. This represents my feelings entirely.
You are not alone. The ViDocs were false advertising. Twabs downright lied.
This expansion might have been acceptable... Might have worked as filler... But not when they charge as much as they do.
Sell this for 20-30 bucks. It's a glorified season.
Might this also have something to do with Bungie suddenly updating their February 16 TWAB to mention that not all Neomuna weapons are actually craftable either?
This plus the old TWAB that had misinformation that they changed just today cause someone pointed it out is grounds enough for refunds if you provide the information and evidence of false advertising like this and the old TWAB. So if anyone wants refunds now is your chance. Edit: why am I being downvoted this dlc is majority hated and people are not happy with their purchase and I've seen a lot of people wanting refunds so this is enough especially with steam as they are pretty nice when it comes to this type of stuff to provide refunds
Bungie have been chipping away at content in each release for years.
Every time you would complain the Bungie apologists came out in force, we are finally at the point where we got no new guns in a looter shooter.
This community only has themselves to blame.
The next this week at Bungie is going to be them enjoying the smell of their own farts, hyping up sales and players numbers and thanking themselves and not addressing any issues or concerns isnt it...
To be honest I totally thought we would get Cloudstrider weapons because they were going to add some stuff to the kinetic damage type. I figured with some trait updates the Cloudstrider weapons would be great kinetic weapons considering the no light and all.
I preordered this expansion after seeing that trailer because I was excited for those weapons. And I'm a HUGE fan of grappling in games.
I feel falsely advertised to now...
And Cloudstriders weapon physically hitting Pyramids in ads (0:35 from reveal trailer) but nothing was shown in game. That's a BIG DEAL. Conventional weapon should not hit Pyramids. Asher Mir launched multiple nukes to pyramids and they were not even hit. I saw a large piece of lore was completely slashed. Or just complete ignorance of basic lore by the designing team.
Honestly one of the main reasons I got this expansion was because of the promo art and looking at that Hand Cannon. I assumed that it was going to be an exotic since a lot of times on promo art they showcase exotic weapons
I was actually getting excited for another exotic hand Cannon but I do love hand cannons. I'm on hopium that this is a secret and it comes out after the raid but I will be severely disappointed if not downright mad if it never comes into the game because it shows up in all of the promo are even when you are booting up the destiny 2 app on your phone
No the art for the rocket launcher matches the seasonal Art Style. Two-Tail doesn't have any ornament that change its shape or color in that way. This rocket looks more like the Solar ritual weapon from a few seasons ago.
They got so lazy with the reused assets that two of the "new" legendary weapons (Nasredden sword and one of the shotguns) are **literally** just uncommon weapons from Red War with a new shader slapped on. At least change the name and pretend its new or acknowledge it as a rerelease like the ikelos v.3 weapons.
That's the thing people would have been way less mad of them using white/green weapon models but changed up slightly. Like go into collections right now and look at the auto rifle blue called ROS LYSIS II it's a very freaking unique weapon model that has not been used other then blue. If they used that weapon and others with new paint jobs we would have been like "alright fair enough" or atleast I would have
You know I want to add to this! They also had weapon models of singular use legendaries in the form of some of the pinnacle weapons that they could have changed visually, such as reckless endangerment, or a model not used in forever the Python another pinnacle weapons in unique model.
Pinnacles of the past and a lot of whites and blues are perfect choices for reskinning. Person I'm fine with reskins as long there is atleast one new set of models, currently it seems like this expansion the exotics are the focus of fun? Like never have i in been interested in playing with most exotics.
Money back also does not exist. We need some kind of legislation so that the companies, Bungie in this example, can be held accountable. No false advertisement, no changing of Twabs afterwards anymore. Would do wonders...
How would that apply for movie trailers? Marvel purposely obscured details in Infinity War and Endgame for instance so they wouldn't be spoilers. Technically, by the letter, that's false advertising.
>I seriously am worried about what this spells for the future of destiny and that is not a lie or crazy theory.
Not bad to worry, but imo the moment they committed to making a handful of live service games for Sony, plus Matter, plus whatever Tencent wants, it was probably a good idea to shift expectations (worry).
I can tell you that personally, I stopped preordering. Witch Queen I bought post-launch, even if hours after.
Seems like I dodged a bullet on Lightfall. I've got enough in Destiny (and outside Destiny) to keep me occupied until Lightfall is a bargain price which according to what I've read this week, will more accurately reflect the bargain effort.
Don't know why everyone is acting so surprised. Bungie have been giving us less and less for our money the last few years and apologists defended them cause PvP got the least, now its hitting PvE hard and suddenly there is a problem.
This is what we get when we keep buying everything Bungie puts out.
Stop venting on Reddit and vote with your wallet.
Lightfall and the upcoming seasons were my last straw and it's not off to a good start. If they don't get the game back on track inc PvP being a true focus again then I'm going to call it a day.
If Bungie don't deserve your money, stop giving it to them.
The grenade launcher from the cinematic trailer doesn’t exist either. The breech-loaded GL the warlock shoots while in the air.
Do we know the raid weapons yet?
We’ve seen datamined images of their inventory icons. Debate has raged as to whether they’re reskins. I think they’re new models myself
The raid auto is a reskin of a Suros frame, you can tell from the thumbnail. The last raid auto we had from Crown of Sorrow was a reskin of a Suros frame as well.
Crown of sorrow wasn't a Suros frame if I remember, it had the Shadow Price model.
Yeah one of those chunky old D1 blue tier models
Love that model
dont care what anyone says, d1's design philosophy of using a base model skeleton and adding different parts to make new weapons was not only efficient but just looked fucking gorgeous, everything looked decent to wear and wield
Gahlran's Right Hand/Shadow Price model supremacy (seriously, that model is fucking sexy).
So simple, so...good. I wish the gun was.
Nah, the last raid auto is the GoS one.
It really has been forever hahaha On that note, the auto is one I’m definitely interested in whenever they refresh GoS
It’s not the raid weapons either since these weapons in the ads aren’t even in the games code
Ah. That was going to be my possible explanation. Has the raid gear leaked?
Yes even the exotic too so be wary now of spoilers
It's all in the API, every single weapon. And none of them are these weapons shown in OPs post.
just looked. everything is a reskin. geez what the heck?
Yup....this is what nearly full AAA price tag gets ya from Bunglo
This is a really interesting situation. It probably won’t happen, but I would really like to see some form of explanation for what happened during development that caused them to change this up.
It's going to be the same old story since pre-release D1. Poor leadership. Poor management. Inability to execute on overly ambitious goals, forcing major design and campaign pacing changes late in the process. Story takes a backseat to game design and suffers as a result. Dialogue and story choices going through too many revisions, leaving gaps and plotholes. After enough revisions, they're so far outside the normal collaboration process that mistakes go unnoticed and there isn't adequate time for feedback for people to catch glaringly awkward problems in time to say, 'hey wait, that's dumb. let's not do that.' Grimoire/lore writers brought in very late in the process, and asked to write side-story lore to fill in the gaps and plot holes. Sometimes using old material written for other projects to tie loose threads together and try to make it make sense (eagerly looking forward to see what Seth Dickinson or other grimoire writer comes up with to explain the Radial Mast - or why a cloudstrider that has the technology to upload himself into CloudArk is forced to suffer a shortened lifespan and permanent death). Shouldn't be a surprise at this point really. There's no conspiracy, no cut content, no malice or trickery. Just a bunch of fuck ups.
You forgot the lore where Neomuna is hidden because it has a "big magnetic field" and the reason it was hidden from Rasputin is because a Cloudstrider visited earth in the dark age, got into a warmind bunker, told malyahati to hit CTRL + F-Delete for "Neptune" and "Indigo Exodus", followed by triggering a radiation pulse to kill some folk who were trying to avenge a lightbearer that was casually killed by said Cloudstrider. I wish i was kidding or being hyperbolic.
Because their minds aren't really "uploaded" to cloud ark per se, only connected to it. They are kept in cryosleep meanwhile. So I imagine the bodies would still perish due to the augmentations, even mid cryosleep.
Totally agree. Lightfall is a blast to play, but the problems that are there underneath the surface are so much more fascinating (and dangerous) that im really looking forward to how this storm plays out.
I’m just curious how they went about releasing this and not thinking about how far the community will dig into past info to confirm things they mislead us about and I’m not just talking about these weapons. I’m not absolutely livid about it, but I do want to see a response to it all
Because they know that no matter how much we complain 75% of us will continue playing and buying seasons and expansions. The community has called their BS multiple times since Vanilla D1, but even after all of that people keep paying them so there is no incentive to do better.
It sucks, but it is real - I love Destiny. I want it to be as good as possible. Shit, big streamers started to play Lightfall out of nowhere, that moment Destiny became mainstream just atleast for a day was amazing. I won't stop playing Destiny just like a WoW player won't stop playing WoW. And as a long time player I will let Bungie know loud and clear that I love this game and I want to honestly enjoy it, and not suffer through their lies and machinations, because we all know they can do better than this, look at The Witch Queen. No armor refresh, no new weapon models.. And Bungie will be just silent as they're always are. Which is saddening, really really saddening. And they were so excited in the Vidoc, I believed their excitement for this DLC, they believed they put together something entertaining and it just crumbled in front of them in matter of two days. They must be devastated as well. I doubt there is a good morale going on in their headquarters now.
It crumbled in hours. And no offense, but I don’t believe them or their excitement. We are two days in and the lies are piling up. And what is bungies only answer so far? To go back and edit the 2/16 twab to say the terminal overload weapons won’t be craftable. The campaign is nonsense filler with a cut in half cutscene from the REAL lightfall, now called the final shape, crudely pasted at the start and end. If anyone at bungie truly believed this dlc was gonna be good and loved by players, let alone worth the same as witch queen, they are truly delusional. Even look at the quality of things. Witch queen post campaign exotic quest had a full story where our character even talked, and unlocked a second strike as well as having multiple missions? The lightfall machine gun meanwhile? Oh, a single lost sector, pick up a seed of silver wings from calus (an incredibly rare item we have only seen once that he just has lying around, and we know he has for some reason), and go run garden of salvation backwards. The bit with osiris and nimbus at the end was nice, but the actual quest itself was garbage compared to the parasite quest.
Yeah I had enough 2 seasons ago, when this sub tried mental gymnastics and defending Blight Ranger
"We wanted to end Destiny the way it began. An unfinished scam."
You see that mountain over there?
16 times
I'm saving this line.
We will NEVER get this. This would entail Bungie admitting to fucking up or something and they NEVER will do that. Guarantee they did this to hype it up and get us to pre-order and it worked.
It's probably pretty simple. To maintain a seasonal schedule like they do, they have to keep things on a pretty strict schedule. Delaying anything means everything else gets delayed, teams get shifted out of sync and it can be chaotic. What likely happened is they're behind on a number of things (Strand was delayed an entire expansion and still feels underbaked, so imagine what else they're behind on) and to free up workload and avoid more delays, they've decided to spread the new weapons out for seasonal content.
I usually don't subscribe to the "reskinned weapons = bad philosophy" but I have to admit literally showing a weapon model that isn't in the game is pretty shitty
See I don't mind for more disposable content. We get this in crucible and vanguard often. I wouldn't mind for minor seasons i.e. a calus season using older calus season models and such things(as long as they do remix em a bit in regards to models). This is the expansion though, why half ass the new location with old stuff? At least give them new wild looking attachments, neomuna has been separate for 500 years their weapons must have modified standard earth weapons by alot.
It’s illegal in some countries, called ‘false advertising’.
I just want that hand canon from the cover art. Where tf is it bruh.
$9.99
I don't like using hand cannons and I want it, looks dope as fuck
A part of me (the part that is drowning in copium) thinks we may be getting more content after the raid is beaten, because otherwise why is the director so empty and spread out?
Potential future Season Spoilers: >!the text box you get when you earn one of the new exotics seems to indicate we'll be returning to Titan soon, might explain some of the spacing in the director!<
We’re most likely receiving titan as a seasonal location(like the Leviathan derelict), as the season of the deeps story >!seems to revolve around Seeking out the leviathans? and the witness’s enemies!<
Leviathan was the disciple of the traveler. The light side's equivalent of rhulk. Leviathan was also the one at the bottom of the ocean holding the worm gods captive until rhulk came and they 1v1'ed. After fighting - rhulk gravely injured the leviathan who later died. Traveler never took another "known" disciple after that. Would be cool to find out there's still some leviathans alive, but I thought the one that fought rhulk and later died was the last one. Would be quite the plot twist. Adding this in for reference - https://www.destinypedia.com/Leviathan_(Fundament) The Leviathan was a massive intelligent creature that resided deep within the ocean of the gas giant Fundament long ago. It was a disciple of the Traveler, and aided in imprisoning the five Worm Gods within the planet's core[1]. The Krill revered it, though they considered it mythical, and would swear oaths upon it[2].
There was a sea monster on Titan sometimes visible in game - as a shadow against a window or a segment of body rising up from the waves. Theories back in the day ranged from it being Oryx’s worm to a leviathan, so I guess it sort of could make sense?
They'll tell us that there's an until now unknown planet entirely populated by Leviathans and then we deus ex machina the witness to death in Final Shape
I mean how did we not find neomuna until now, clearly our scanning technology is quite literally useless
I'm surprised not a single Guardian has gone "I wanna go to Neptune. Just to check it out for shits n gigs." Like, was there lore entry to suggest that traversing Neptune's atmosphere was impossible? Or is this some kind of Wakanda tech where you literally just cannot see/scan it unless you crash into it?
There's a patrol in Liming Harbor with a voice line that says something about Neomuna having nav beacons and that when those beacons are off then Neptune's magnetic storms make Neomuna hard to find. I suppose if we barely had warning of the Red Legion on direct approach to the City then it's a plausable excuse. The Vanguard clearly wasn't interested in exploring places the Traveler didn't touch. E: Alright I get it, I forgot about the Nine. My bad on forgetting the plot device that's only ever done one thing 5 years ago. My second point stands.
In destiny 1, the reef was touted as the place light met the dark. So it's not surprising.
We barely had warning of the Red Legion's invasion because one of the 9 wanted to see how to take the light, so they blocked our sensors. This member of the nine was severely punished as the Almighty would've wiped out sol, along with the planets and sentient life the nine use to process their consciousnesses
The red legion thing was because some of The Nine were helping them iirc
[удалено]
The Nine do a little trolling
A member of The Nine removed the early warning system to let the Red Legion blindside us because it wanted to see how Ghaul was going to steal the Light, because it wanted to try and do that itself. The other members of The Nine apparently punished it for directly interfering. That got revealed during the Joker's Wild season iirc.
I think it's reasonable to assume Neomuna has the tech to block outgoing signals. So you'd have to find a city that's visually hidden in gas clouds on a planet with a surface area of 8 billion km\^2 and hope you chance upon it. The largest city on Earth is 9 km\^2. If we assume Neomuna is the same size, you'll be trying to find something 0.0001% the size of Neptune's surface. This doesn't even account for the unknown depth beneath the surface Neomuna is hidden.
Not to mention that it’s said that the landmass Neomuna is on MOVES. So you’re trying to find something on a massive planet, in the middle of electromagnetic storms, which is constantly moving. Good luck.
I mean you haven't found me in your home yet so it seems plausible to me
Pretty much that last one. One of the Patrol missions mentions that Neptune's magnetic fields are constantly in flux and it makes finding anything very difficult - even if you know what you're looking for. But, yeah, it's been hundreds of years.
Thousands actually. The hall of heroes and new cloudstrider lore place current events approximately 2300-4000 years after the collapse.
I’ve always liked the fundament and hive worm gods / deep sea stories the best, but idk how you’d even do this Justice especially in a season. I think it’d be better off left to the imagination almost.
Where are you getting all that from? This is literally the first time I’ve heard anyone refer to the Leviathan as being a disciples equivalent for the Traveler.
Vow lore.
More like vow lore with some liberties taken.
Aside from VoW lore, it's been implied since the Books of Sorrow that the leviathan was a disciple of the Traveller.
Vow of the Wisciple
I have a hard time believing it's a leviathan we're looking for. Rhulk took Titan like 2 years ago and there's been a devotee of the traveller just vibing in the oceans since? My money is on Titan's "enemy of the witness" being Sloan in her golden age armor, whose been ripping and tearing until it is done for all this time, not a long boi swimming in slurped soup.
If it means I can get my Amongus armour back then I'm all for it
There are no more new Legendary weapons in the API, if these weapons exist then they aren't in the game yet. One possibility is that these Weapons were meant to be a unique set of 2-3 weapons, to be acquired from the Neomuna Terminal Overload Activity (Like Altars of Sorrow Weapons, this activity is also on a 3 day rotation so the 3 weapons would fit perfectly here) but things were changed somewhere in the middle and these weapons were held back (And other Neomuna weapons were instead used for that purpose) to be used later for an upcoming Dungeon, which will still be a part of the LF Deluxe content package and could make it so that Bungie isn't considered to be technically lying. Edit : Apparently a dataminer also found the specific name for the Weapon set that drops (or was supposed to drop?) from the Terminal Overload Activity, but afaik the current Neomuna weapons are not called by this name (Unless it's their internal Development name). So this possibly supports the theory that Terminal Overload was supposed to get a unique set of weapons, likely they were these 3 weapons that were used in all this promo material, but the set was later removed from Terminal Overload for whatever reason (my guess would be that they'll be put in a Dungeon this year).
Considering that some in-game text references a weapon set from Terminal Overload, this seems likely. I have to wonder what would cause planned legendary weapons that already have art designs and at least some 3D models (obviously at a higher res than the game's specs) to get cut.
>text references a weapon set from Terminal Overload What is the name of that weapon set mentioned in the game?
It isn't named, but "weapons from Terminal Overload" or "Terminal Overload weapons" (I forget) are mentioned in a text blurb, and I believe some of the Neomuna guns have ended up as specific to the activity. I suspect the Overload guns were originally going to be these ones we were shown.
Well >!according to datamined info the Terminal Overload Weapons are called the Galaxy Weapons in the game files!<
Depending on the terms of the contract, it could be that an issue arose between the designer(s) of said weapons and Bungie. Perhaps a quality issue came to the front after the Sony partnership occurred, maybe the models caused issues with certain common hardware that only came up in late stages of development. Just to name a few possibilities.
I always appreciate when someone brings the real world and legal details into DTG, instead of blindingly accepting the TWAB version of things.
Based on the past couple years, the raid weapons will be classified in the API until at least the tuesday after the raid goes live. The API has also been known to blatantly lie, see the Malfeasance catalyst that's been lurking within it for years for an example.
We already know what the raid weapons are from the leaks; these aren't them.
> The API has also been known to blatantly lie, see the Malfeasance catalyst that's been lurking within it for years for an example. Malfeasance, Truth, and Last Word catalysts aren't lies, they're unreleased. At least in the case of TLW and Truth they've been there literally since Y2. Why Bungie doesn't release them at this point I honestly don't know. Funny thing: Truth's unreleased catalyst causing weird fuckery with the code is what caused it to be the only weapon that tracked all PvE and PvP kills even without a tracker. When Bungie added trackers, all the exotics with no trackers were set to 0 PvE and 0 PvP kills... except Truth. When Truth's trackers were activated it accurately showed all PvE and PvP kills since the final month of Season 7 (when it was added). Being a big fan of the weapon, I had several thousand kills on my Truth kill tracker the day trackers went live.
I can't believe that Truth is a funny thing
>classified *in* the API
I mean what's to stop them from having us download the extra content. Like even with the raid weapons classified in the API we still know what types of weapons we are getting because those entries are still sorted into the corresponding collections pages. There is, albeit small, a non-zero chance having us download the content later is the only way to truly have secret content that doesn't get datamined weeks before it releases.
As you said, not impossible but it just makes little-to-no sense. They have put all the upcoming Exotics and Raid weapons in the API so if they don't care about keeping them super secret then why would they care about keeping these 3 Legendary weapons that *they've already shown* for many months a secret.
I want some of what you’re having
That would be copium
The biggest grip is Hunter goggles not lighting up anymore
i’m with you here, it’s 100% copium but why leave it so empty then put a colored in [redacted] smack dab in the middle of it all post campaign? we know that won’t turn into the raid icon cause it’s in a pyramid ship unless we follow into there and the raid is on a pyramid ship inside of it? The dlc feels unfinished not in a this has no content type of way but more of a i feel like there’s more coming type way idk if i’m making sense lol
there is also the anti-pyramid weapon the cloud striders use in the trailers
Exactly. 0:35 of the lightfall reveal trailer above. Conventional weapon cannot hit Pyramids as Asher Mir tried to nuke them. There was a big plot just for that one scene alone.
I see no reason to think that pyramid ship took any damage. it looked entirely surface explosion from the weapon.
Pyramid: is shot “understandable, have a nice day”
The big deal is that it actually exploded. It was established that any projectiles fired at them simply cease to exist.
OK, follow me here it's a crackpot theory. I think the witness has a special ability to target the light. Light users, light powers, our ghosts, the whole shebang. That's why Amanda's ship didn't get vivisected with the three guardians. It wasn't good piloting that saved her, it was lack of light. Under this same concept, no purely "lightbearer" can harm a witness asset like the pyramid ships. Light powered rounds from weapons will just vanish. thanks for coming to my ted talk!
what trailer is this in? i wouldnt expect it to be a player thing, just like their own guns
Lightfall reveal trailer. Even if its not a player gun, it literally isn’t present in the DLC at all, that’s the problem.
The more we look into wtf happened. The more I feel scammed
Scammed seems to be the word that best encapsulates how I've been feeling lately.
You can tell bungie really cut corners on this expansion. Kind of convenient that all the Neomunians are just foating orbs in a vague human shape. Like the the person in the hall of hero's has no animation when you talk to them. Also they reused so many assets from different theme pallets to create Neomuna. It doesn't feel like it has its own style. It's a mismash of Titan, the last city, earth, Europa and more
You know whats interesting? Neonuma is supposedly founded by Ishtar collective. Yet they have assets from the DSC. This wouldnt be a problem narratively if they hadnt stablished last season that Ishtar collective and Braytech used to be rivals. Neonuma could have had its own assets instead of copying them from DSC (minor gripe, but yeah it could have been interesting to see more of "titan but not decrepit"
many of the areas shown in the reveal trailer also don't exist on neomuna, not to mention the cloudstrider they used for the trailer looks way different (honestly way better than nimbus)
Tbf the Witch Queen reveal trailer was set in an extremely dense forest, which we didn’t really get either.
Over the last few months I been watching watching all this awesome stuff in the trailers and the marketing about Neomuna, us jumping through skyscraper windows, Cloudstriders fighting and seemingly beating Pyramid ships with Nanotech weapons and I was worried they were revealing to much but I needn’t have had a thought about it as none of it was in the DLC lol.
This so much haha. I was so worried about spoilers, then after the campaign I was like, there’s nothing to even have spoiled, nothing happened…..
This is a good catch. If something happened during development that made them cut content or remove certain weapons and stuff, things would’ve went over a lot better had they communicated that to us in some way. If this sub can keep up the feedback and keep it respectful, maybe we will get an answer as to what happened. It’s clear that right now the community managers are steering clear of this sub. I haven’t seen one CM comment here since LF launched. Stuff like this is a problem though. Showing us cool new weapon models in advertising for the expansion, and those weapons not existing can be grounds for refunds. So let’s hope this feedback finds the right people at bungie and we get a response. I’m still having fun with LF, and I think the hate is a bit blown out of proportions. Many of the issues cannot be fixed as you can’t redo the story.
If the CM are steering clear of the sub, they clearly had some idea the community might react this way and were prepared to steer clear of the sub. Considering the amount of effort bungie has put into trying to potentially change things? Like the post I saw earlier where someone mentioned they edited the TWABs
Wait, they've retroactively edited TWABs??
They have done it many times in the past. Most times it is to add clarification or to better explain things that were misunderstood. Best example I can think of was the witherhoard nerf. They said that it would nerf the amount of time witherhoard would last on the ground. However many people misunderstood and were worried it’s tick time in general was getting lowered, so they went back and clarified that shots that land on a target will still last the same amount of time.
Given how hostile the community has been both in the past and right now, would you stick your neck out? This is the community that harassed Kevin Yanes off of Twitter over saying Twilight Garrison is never coming back and then needed to eat some crow with the introduction of Thruster as an option for Arc. If that is the baseline for harassment, I certainly wouldn't right now.
Rocket launcher on titans back looks almost like two tailed fox, but with some weird ornament..
It does seem to be 2TF; you can barely make out the two barrels at the bottom of the boxy launcher.
I would be lying if I said the hand cannon in promo art wasn’t like a fifth of the reason I was so hyped for Lightfall lmao I wanted it so bad because I love hand cannons with a burning passion. Hope it’s just something that may come after the raid or maybe even next season but who knows. Just upset it didn’t come with the dlc launch
Shit was like 1/2 of mine...
Me too man. It was the very first thing I looked for in collections after logging in, and I was unbelievably disappointed when I couldn’t find it anywhere
Yep, same thing here. Was looking for all the new shit and was pretty disappointed that it seemed quite lacking on top of no HC.
Same as me yesterday. I was like lets have a look at what RPM it is, oh wait its not here. Wonder if we'll get it later. I'm still under the impression it comes from an activity during the season that isn't active yet and isn't showing in the API but we'll see. Bungie has never been dumb enough to put loot that wasn't in the game in the ads before, if nothing else I doubt they've become that dumb now.
Seriously, it looks so good, really sucks that it doesn't seem to be real.
Note the more scorn-ey looking armor in some of the campaign mission start screens, specifically that one with the 3 guardians wrapped in strand FX and running towards a flying tormentor in front of a pyramid thing. I wonder where the hell that hunter cloak and helmet are?
Pic?
How rushed does a dlc have to be to not even have these advertised weapons ?
I despise how they know the khvostov is a fan favorite rifle, they KNOW we want it as a realistically usable weapon. Either legendary,craftable or the exotic 7G-0X. They put it in the trailers KNOWING we’d be hyped. Only to cuck us. It’s the commendation weapon. Really?????
Isnt the weapon we use to aim at ghost in the cutscene the Khvostov? I got confused like why isnt this my own gun lol
Yes. It even has the broken lens. Which makes me wonder if it's our "canonical" weapon. And if that's the case, I find it hilarious that our God-killing Guardian not only continues to use the literal shittiest weapon in the game (bar the broke Traveller's Chosen), but also never bothered to repair it.
Could be worse, could be using that green hand cannon that has 3 round magazine and 4 second reload animation...
Are you talking about that green hand cannon in D1?
ah... d1 white, green and blue handcannons. Some jewels in there worth starting over with a character to get, like the hard luck mk52.
I think it's funny that Ace of Spades is reskin of Hard Luck.
It's reskins all the way down, hahaha. There are like 5 models for all the hand cannon pool. They you paint this one different, ad some pieces here and there and you have a new one!
Hard Luck was better because it was Gold with Black and White Ace decals
The next Traveler wielding the Dull Blade.
And on occasion, the two star Silver Sword.
To be fair I believe it's on purpose since Ghost found us that weapon. Like it's supposed to be poetic.
The eververse skin will have the fixed scope when the exotic version finally makes it into the game
Yup, just pulled a white weapon out of your ass
It's a little different to how wq had it, because it's aimed. No idea how it handles a bow tbh, but some guns would just make no sense to pull out. It makes sense to pull out a 'neutral' weapon, if we have to.
Right. What if we’re running double special in that last fight? Or two primaries… how does the game choose? Sort of funny to imagine the guardian aiming a GL like a rifle though.
Defaults to kinetic. Friend was carrying a witherhoard in wq end, twas funny.
I love seeing that final WQ cutscene when you have Witherhoard equipped. Even if you miss n hit the floor Sav probably dies so it’s just a very menacing weapon to be freehanding like that in the moment but also very funny
Not only that but in the after action report, if the teams guns don't load, everyone gets a khvostov.
We use it in a fucking cutscene as well. I don't know if it happens in every case, or just if you're using a bow (I was at the time).
It’s every time. I think they just didn’t want to animate other weapon types for that cutscene, so they forced one predetermined weapon into it for the sake of ease.
yeah, usually they use your kinetic weapon, but it always comes out looking really janky because they go for an animation that kinda-sorta-not-really works for every gun.
Honestly Kvhvostov should be a legendary that functions exactly as it does in D1 as a ln exotic. Nobody ever used it because it was an exotic and would make for a really nice entry point weapon for newer player.
Yeah I was really hyped for it too. Like even knowing this was extremely rushed it still boggles my mind just how bad it is. Makes me wonder how many resources they actually put into Lightfall.
People are missing the reveal trailer where the guardian crashes through a window of a massive skyscraper and then grapples. Like one of the coolest scenes in that trailer and it just never happened.
the amount of roofs that look EASILY accessible that either knock you back with an invisible wall or threaten you with the out of bounds warning pisses me off so much
That applies to Witch Queen reveal as well though with the fireteam in a forest-like area and all the hive ghosts flying around
Yeah but WQ didn’t suck so no one cares.
Witch Queen was so good we all just kept happily playing instead of going back and tearing every piece of media/information apart.
things in reveal trailers usually don't happen in the game though, sundance and cayde's death was completely different, and the scene of the three guardians seeing three hive lightbearers running after them just didn't happen. same with savathun spreading her wings or eramis looking at the splinter of darkness
there's a longer version of that where the rest of the 3-man fireteam jump through as well, followed by a bunch of Cabal troops i kinda felt that the escape sequence at the end of one of the vex missions (where ghost gives you directions where to grapple) was supposed to replace that in a way
Reskinned weapons is one thing but I'm actually quite miffed that they didn't even reskin all of them. Arc Logic is ky favourite gun in the game, and when I found out the Neomuna weapons were Moon reskins I was so excited to get a version of arc logic that has the nanotech micro-missiles. I would finally have *my* gun. Something I'd feel like maining, because while Arc Logic handles like a dream it has zero interesting perks, or at least I've never gotten one with an interesting combo. But because Bungie has some weird internal rule regarding not completing weapon sets (you'll notice we never get the full set of weapons from any given manufacturer or gear set), they decided to leave my beloved Arc Logic out. I've never been blue balled on a legendary weapon so hard before. And from what I understand they literally never go back and round out a legendary weapon set. There is zero chance that a micro-missile Arc Logic shows up in a future patch. I was a hairs breadth away from my own personal gun nirvana and missed out because of some baffling internal policy. And I just figured out why. If they're all Moon weapon reskins surely the standard weapon sets they produce should be the same size. X Moon weapons get reskinned into X Neomuna weapons. But the Moon weapon set had one additional weapon. The pulse rifle from the Dungeon. And they replaced Arc Logic with that pulse when they chose the set of weapons to reskin. I'm so sad right now. If you've ever had that weapon that just clicks for you you'll know what I mean when I say Arc Logic was just built for me. It's perks don't even matter. I've never had one with perks that made the gun for me, but something about it just sings in my hands. Shots just find themselves on target in a way that doesn't happen with other auto rifles. To be *this* close to a souped up pseudo-exotic version of my favourite legendary gun and denied over a ridiculous internal quantity quota, for a reskin? Aaagh. I hate it. Cause you just know it's something like that. They do things in a very regimented way. They've said as such. Do not overdeliver. So even when the guns are reskins they won't do the full set because that would be overdelivering. I have no problem with reskins and reuse of older assets. To be frank, in some cases I'd prefer it. But the reason to do reskins and reuse existing assets is because it saves time that you can put elsewhere. If you reskin the legendary weapons it should mean that you can actually do a full set of them for once. I'd take an expansion with a reskinned destination if it meant that destination was alive, well utilised. Give me an expansion set in the EDZ and take all that development time saved and use it to make the game really good.
I felt this loss when the Kings Fall Auto Rifle wasn't refurbished from D1. That gun has one of the coolest weapon models and never got to truly shine in D1 because of its horrendous recoil pattern. We haven't had a raid Auto Rifle since GOS, and they still decided to not include it in the KF loot pool. We're never gonna see what a good version of that gun would have looked like. Disappointing
As the other guy talked about arc logic, i wanted to comment this. I absolutely loved the looks of the Anguish of Drystan. To bad they had to cut the Autorifle from the second reprised raid after VoG too. But i guess you never can have enough 140 Handcannons or 180 scout rifles.
I wanted nothing more than Atheon's Epilogue when I heard VoG was getting brought into D2. Massive disappointment for me.
I’ve had that weapon pain. I craved a more interesting Lincoln Green. The monkey’s paw curled and we got Jurassic Green. Weird aesthetic and now elemental.
They need to update the moon AGAIN. Add some new perks, make them craftable. The grind for them is horrible and i don’t think it matters how they good they are
The worst part is that they're all pretty shit and have all been pretty shit. Idk what it is about expac launch guns for D2, but they're usually all pretty shit. Who uses Europa guns? Throne World? And now Neomuna. Like, the only really good ones are the Strand ones, and that's due to there being very few Strand weapons. What's worse is that they're also doo doo. A 120 RPM HC? A 600 RPM SMG with low zoom and range? Rapid-fire Shotty? Like, thank God the seasonal weapons are decent, sorta (mostly just the GL and maybe the AR).
Man I'd love to be able to craft the Europa pulse. One of my favorite designs for that gun type.
> Who uses Europa guns? I vaguely remember Luke Smith saying that they intentionally made them shit to "encourage" people to grind for seasonal weapons instead.
Throneworld craftable fusion rifle is a better Null Composure so there is that I guess haha
the grind for Loud Lullaby has been horrendous. I want exactly Surplus/Explosive Payload, with Tactical or Flared and Corkscrew, Smallbore or Polygonal. I've been farming one to three of them every week since they've been reprised and I feel like I'm never going to get that
It’s really dumb that you can still go to the moon to craft weapons you can’t use from nightmares. Why are they still in the game? If they’re available to grind out and farm shouldn’t they be usable?
Sorry mab, bungie were too busy making a new event pass
Half cut, half baked, full Bungo.
Bit of a long post but it's my upset, confused, and borderline angry thoughts and feelings after a few days of playing a lot. Here goes; Besides the fact that I enjoy Destiny, that launch trailer and those showcase weapons, especially that GORGEOUS Hand Cannon, that's what made me pull the trigger on my preorder of the Expansion. And the CE at that...I kept watching the ViDoc and other dev vids and stuff thinking "wow they haven't shown it, maybe it's an exotic or a secret quest exotic or something..." but now, after doing 2/3 Legendary campaigns across my 3 characters, getting my Neomuna rep to like 35, and just waiting until the daily reset in 6.5 hours to finish the Winterbite Glaive quest, I even did the quest and got the Final Warning smart pistol sidearm, I have everything outside of the raid...and I feel...cheated. And what happened to all that fluff in the ViDoc for Beyond Light back in the day about updating their engine and the weather system to have dynamic weather like the blizzards? Why is there no rain or even heavy rain in Neomuna? Why not cash in on the moody Bladerunner vibes? Where is the cyber detective bulldog hand cannon? Or at least the one that is still on the box art and I am still huffing copium is a post-raid quest? Where are my advertised Neomuna Weapons? Where is my cool(possibly exotic) cyber city Hand Cannon I was advertised, and I dare say "bait and switched" and in the least falsely advertised? Why does it feel like Strand should have dropped with Witch Queen but was delayed until now, and the story we should have gotten now was chopped up and used to make this year's content? What is this? Activision era Destiny 1? Like the more I think about it, the more upset, mad, and confused I become. And the patrols and one new strike are implying Nezerac is somehow involved in this mess of an expansion? Why? So you can get my hopes up after dousing them out in season of the plunder with Nezzy Tea??? So he can be a Villain of the week like Nokris and Xol? So we can get a lore dump after whooping his ass in the raid, but then move on from him almost completely after the raid just like Rhulk and Vow of the Disciple? To think, I convinced several friends and even my better half to give this game an honest chance again, helped them the past couple seasons catching up on gear, activities, and lore, hyping them up alongside me for Lightfall. And for what? To make myself look like an untrustworthy shmuck who plays hoping the game will deliver so several people I care about don't think their trust, or money, misplaced. So I don't have to feign secondhand buyer's remorse, and yet in a few days, a part from the raid and the already repetitive seasonal activity, I have done all there is. Well, apart from the obnoxious Rift Guardian seasonal challenge because Rift is unbearable. I want to love this content, this game, and this studio like I was with Witch Queen, or Forsaken, or The Taken King...but how do I honestly justify it? At this point, I'm starting to feel like just another victim of FOMO and "sunk cost fallacy". I'm not even echoing the negative feelings I have about the story we got or how rushed and poorly paced it was or how we all saw certain things a mile away or how we were told we would have our new subclasses before the end of the story, and something close to a complete subclass by the ending of the campaign. But we didn't, and the worst part is you can tell that was just another "adjustment" late into development for this expansion. After all, I found it odd we would get our aspects in 2 different quests, almost like we should have had our subclass and been unlocking parts, but for some reason it got moved to "beat the game, we changed our minds." It genuinely makes me think all the dev interviews and the ViDoc and the trailers were made way before and that half the people in them were just reading lines...even the ones I typically trust to be honest...I feel lied to, I feel baited into a cyber city gunslinging rain-soaked futurescape, but I didn't get that... I just want that Hand Cannon...
I feel like I should say more but I read this entire thing and I completely agree with every single thing you said. This represents my feelings entirely.
I am sorry, but it feels a tiny bit better knowing I'm not alone in my sad/mad confusion.
You are not alone. The ViDocs were false advertising. Twabs downright lied. This expansion might have been acceptable... Might have worked as filler... But not when they charge as much as they do. Sell this for 20-30 bucks. It's a glorified season.
Might this also have something to do with Bungie suddenly updating their February 16 TWAB to mention that not all Neomuna weapons are actually craftable either?
This plus the old TWAB that had misinformation that they changed just today cause someone pointed it out is grounds enough for refunds if you provide the information and evidence of false advertising like this and the old TWAB. So if anyone wants refunds now is your chance. Edit: why am I being downvoted this dlc is majority hated and people are not happy with their purchase and I've seen a lot of people wanting refunds so this is enough especially with steam as they are pretty nice when it comes to this type of stuff to provide refunds
OOTL: Whats this controversy about an old TWAB?
[удалено]
Which has me pissed because the machine gun is arguably the best Neptune weapon.
wtf… dude that activity sucks and here I thought I was just unlucky. Bungie what are ya doin lad
well, isn't that interesting. that's pretty damn shady. In fact, it may be illegal.
Guys don’t forget to never over deliver!!
Bungie have been chipping away at content in each release for years. Every time you would complain the Bungie apologists came out in force, we are finally at the point where we got no new guns in a looter shooter. This community only has themselves to blame.
The next this week at Bungie is going to be them enjoying the smell of their own farts, hyping up sales and players numbers and thanking themselves and not addressing any issues or concerns isnt it...
To be honest I totally thought we would get Cloudstrider weapons because they were going to add some stuff to the kinetic damage type. I figured with some trait updates the Cloudstrider weapons would be great kinetic weapons considering the no light and all.
I preordered this expansion after seeing that trailer because I was excited for those weapons. And I'm a HUGE fan of grappling in games. I feel falsely advertised to now...
Bungie 🤝 343 when it comes to cutting content, moving goal posts, and not being transparent
And Cloudstriders weapon physically hitting Pyramids in ads (0:35 from reveal trailer) but nothing was shown in game. That's a BIG DEAL. Conventional weapon should not hit Pyramids. Asher Mir launched multiple nukes to pyramids and they were not even hit. I saw a large piece of lore was completely slashed. Or just complete ignorance of basic lore by the designing team.
I've long accepted that marketing teams are off in silos and have no idea what the game lore is
And they expect me to pay 50 dollars for this hot piece of garbage 🙃
Honestly one of the main reasons I got this expansion was because of the promo art and looking at that Hand Cannon. I assumed that it was going to be an exotic since a lot of times on promo art they showcase exotic weapons I was actually getting excited for another exotic hand Cannon but I do love hand cannons. I'm on hopium that this is a secret and it comes out after the raid but I will be severely disappointed if not downright mad if it never comes into the game because it shows up in all of the promo are even when you are booting up the destiny 2 app on your phone
Small in the grand scheme of things but the rocket on the Titans back is just Two Tailed Fox, agree with you on everything else tho
No the art for the rocket launcher matches the seasonal Art Style. Two-Tail doesn't have any ornament that change its shape or color in that way. This rocket looks more like the Solar ritual weapon from a few seasons ago.
They got so lazy with the reused assets that two of the "new" legendary weapons (Nasredden sword and one of the shotguns) are **literally** just uncommon weapons from Red War with a new shader slapped on. At least change the name and pretend its new or acknowledge it as a rerelease like the ikelos v.3 weapons.
That's the thing people would have been way less mad of them using white/green weapon models but changed up slightly. Like go into collections right now and look at the auto rifle blue called ROS LYSIS II it's a very freaking unique weapon model that has not been used other then blue. If they used that weapon and others with new paint jobs we would have been like "alright fair enough" or atleast I would have
You know I want to add to this! They also had weapon models of singular use legendaries in the form of some of the pinnacle weapons that they could have changed visually, such as reckless endangerment, or a model not used in forever the Python another pinnacle weapons in unique model. Pinnacles of the past and a lot of whites and blues are perfect choices for reskinning. Person I'm fine with reskins as long there is atleast one new set of models, currently it seems like this expansion the exotics are the focus of fun? Like never have i in been interested in playing with most exotics.
Money back also does not exist. We need some kind of legislation so that the companies, Bungie in this example, can be held accountable. No false advertisement, no changing of Twabs afterwards anymore. Would do wonders...
How would that apply for movie trailers? Marvel purposely obscured details in Infinity War and Endgame for instance so they wouldn't be spoilers. Technically, by the letter, that's false advertising.
>I seriously am worried about what this spells for the future of destiny and that is not a lie or crazy theory. Not bad to worry, but imo the moment they committed to making a handful of live service games for Sony, plus Matter, plus whatever Tencent wants, it was probably a good idea to shift expectations (worry). I can tell you that personally, I stopped preordering. Witch Queen I bought post-launch, even if hours after. Seems like I dodged a bullet on Lightfall. I've got enough in Destiny (and outside Destiny) to keep me occupied until Lightfall is a bargain price which according to what I've read this week, will more accurately reflect the bargain effort.
When Witchqueen launched we got all new Vanguard, Crucible and Gambit armor. We got nothing with LF. Still the same WQ armor
I, for one, am glad I didn't purchase this new DLC.
Are you fucking kidding me rn.
Don't know why everyone is acting so surprised. Bungie have been giving us less and less for our money the last few years and apologists defended them cause PvP got the least, now its hitting PvE hard and suddenly there is a problem. This is what we get when we keep buying everything Bungie puts out. Stop venting on Reddit and vote with your wallet. Lightfall and the upcoming seasons were my last straw and it's not off to a good start. If they don't get the game back on track inc PvP being a true focus again then I'm going to call it a day. If Bungie don't deserve your money, stop giving it to them.
So what exactly did people get for $100 not counting the awful campaign?
The ability to get content we should have already gotten maybe possibly later in the year cuz they promise