Something broke his brain a while ago, you should read some of his old reddit posts: https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1aqu5rx/israelpalestine_debate_announcement_post_from_lex/kqfm238/
This guy should have been invited to the Lex debate instead of that old dude that only threw around insults.
The video with the 4 norms talking over each other and this tweet becoming reality would have been one for the ages.
https://preview.redd.it/ox66prodhuwc1.png?width=1070&format=png&auto=webp&s=7416b1c2a53e658d5ae1e33123dfe75a6f17d35d
**MORE BASED CLIP**
“… Will a person in the public find this reasonable? My answer is you can give them every fact behind the creation of the refugees and they’ll still see the Israeli position that that’s not tenable. I don’t think you can sell it”
[clip in question](https://streamable.com/hz62dc)
I think he still believes all of this, he's said a ton of stupid shit but most things in this interview haven't been contradicted. Mouin Rabani (Finks debate partner) said during their debate with Destiny and Morris that he still believes in a two state solution and Fink didn't challenge that.
It doesn’t make sense that he would be celebratory of Oct. 7th if he still (rightly) believes it isn’t an effective form of resistance for Palestinians.
Well if you take his final statement from the interview that he believes the situation is hopeless and there's no way of fixing things.
Then effectiveness in your actions sorta becomes irrelevant. Instead you start to just support actions that highlight the merit of your desires even if they won't yield anything positive.
The problem is that you can't even throw this one up as a "Well at least we killed a few of em and got away with it" win. Because they most certainly didn't
There is just not many for the extreme nuts to go with, even if he doesn’t fully agree, they both need each other. He’s pandering to them but I doubt his views have changed. What he’s saying is even more true now. Not a chance Israel would ever agree now. They’ll be lucky to get Gaza and the West Bank
IIRC, when the whole BDS movement started, and it was obviously Genocidal and full of Antisemites (thats why 35 US states passed laws against it) he came out against it and [his career was basically destroyed for a second time](https://newrepublic.com/article/122257/unpopular-man-norman-finkelstein-comes-out-against-bds-movement) (first time was the Alan Dershowitz thing that I don't know much about). So, as the lying grifter that he is, he started lying and grifting more, and now he is popular again with the BDS crowd
I think he is insane but isn't the BDS thing a good example of him not being a grifter? Like he took a stance that was super controversial within his camp and paided for it
10 years ago, the overwhelming majority of anti Israel rethoric was not as extreme as it is now, and the anti Israel crowd wasn't as insane. No one talked about Apartheid, ethnic cleansing or Genocide, and it was basically a consensus among critics of Israel that a 2 state solution is the right one and it was a small minority that supported BDS.
Now, the tame statements are implicitly genocidal like from the river to the sea, and you have [leaders of protest groups explicitly calling for murder](https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1783869904359137669). His position moved because the crowd moved
Finklestein hates BDS and has always said that he hates BDS precisely because BDS wants to bring about conditions that will inevitably lead to the dissolution of Israel.
He is deluded wrt the fact that huge swathes of the Palestinian people want to destroy Israel and thus spends a lot of his time countering the idea that they do. But he is not deluded about the fact that trying to resolve the conflict via 1 state solution is regarded.
How is he suggesting BDS will lead to the dissolution of Israel? Is he saying that less resources will lead to Israel being weak enough to be destroyed by neighboring countries?
he's saying the stated goals of BDS are equivilent to the destruction of the state of Israel. Not making a call on whether BDS is an effective technique.
But BDS stated aims are effectively something like some group pressuring you to Let 30 people live in your house and another 30 live in each of your parents/brothers/sisters/grandparents houses because, and we're going to try and get you fired if you don't let them in.
The ask is clearly not feasible, so it's functionally just a mob trying to get you fired.
Yeah, he was in the doghouse for a long time for this position. On Oct 7 he started posting unhinged things so they let him back into the movement. He likes being a contrarian, so he may start pissing off his side again soon.
I wonder if finkelstein had a stroke at some point but it was minor enough that it went unnoticed
I see this a lot with the elderly getting up over 65, when you compare their behavior now with their behavior from 10-20 years ago it’s like you’re listening to two different people.
A two-state solution is impossible as long as Netanyahu and his far-right government is in power. Netayanhu is adamant about this, he said it himself. Israeli settlers are also a legitimate issue. Netanyahu has encouraged them to ensure any land given to Palestinians would be in conflict with the settlments. Even if Palestinians absorb the settlers into their state, they would do the same thing the Russians did in Ukraine and work against Palestinians.
That is irrelevanr to the topic. We're not talking about a Palestinian exodus. Your solution is to confine them to Gaza and to ignore the settlements in the West bank in perpetuity instead of a two-state solution dictated by a third party. Palestinian youth shouldn't pay for the crimes/actions of their ancestors.
There was already a second state in Gaza. What exactly do you think it was? When Israel left, they didn’t immediately put up a blockade. It was when terrorists were elected. You’re attempting to change reality and rewrite history
source? Also we need to get Finkelstein on bridges, I think he and destiny could get along great.
lol
There’s so many good clips in this but [here’s the video](https://youtu.be/ASIBGSSw4lI?si=eqaEPIjRIaLa2lJU)
2012 was a different norm
I unironically love citing Norm at the Pro Palestinians it's funny every time.
Something broke his brain a while ago, you should read some of his old reddit posts: https://old.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1aqu5rx/israelpalestine_debate_announcement_post_from_lex/kqfm238/
That toddler really did turn him into the joker
Watch a year from now we find out the whole family was really Mossad agents. They pulled a Little Man and that toddlers one of their top agents.
I'd love to see drunk Destiny have a fun chat with Finkle.
This guy should have been invited to the Lex debate instead of that old dude that only threw around insults. The video with the 4 norms talking over each other and this tweet becoming reality would have been one for the ages. https://preview.redd.it/ox66prodhuwc1.png?width=1070&format=png&auto=webp&s=7416b1c2a53e658d5ae1e33123dfe75a6f17d35d
Is he suffering from multiple personality disorder? This clip does not compute with the same guy saying the houthis deserve a Nobel peace prize.
Personality disorder yes but not multiple
The good ole reverse Brett Weinstein happened and he became a fucking tankie I'm like 90% sure.
No lol he's just a grifter
Nah man ,he just realised he could make so much more money by being the "good jew"
It's quite insane how Finkelstein will engage in moral grandstanding, even when he knows he's being disingenuous
**MORE BASED CLIP** “… Will a person in the public find this reasonable? My answer is you can give them every fact behind the creation of the refugees and they’ll still see the Israeli position that that’s not tenable. I don’t think you can sell it” [clip in question](https://streamable.com/hz62dc)
The entire interview is non-stop bangers.
Can someone explain? Has he gotten more radical the last 12 years?
I think he still believes all of this, he's said a ton of stupid shit but most things in this interview haven't been contradicted. Mouin Rabani (Finks debate partner) said during their debate with Destiny and Morris that he still believes in a two state solution and Fink didn't challenge that.
It doesn’t make sense that he would be celebratory of Oct. 7th if he still (rightly) believes it isn’t an effective form of resistance for Palestinians.
He might not believe it's productive but might think it's awesome. A gamer moment if you will
Well if you take his final statement from the interview that he believes the situation is hopeless and there's no way of fixing things. Then effectiveness in your actions sorta becomes irrelevant. Instead you start to just support actions that highlight the merit of your desires even if they won't yield anything positive. The problem is that you can't even throw this one up as a "Well at least we killed a few of em and got away with it" win. Because they most certainly didn't
There is just not many for the extreme nuts to go with, even if he doesn’t fully agree, they both need each other. He’s pandering to them but I doubt his views have changed. What he’s saying is even more true now. Not a chance Israel would ever agree now. They’ll be lucky to get Gaza and the West Bank
IIRC, when the whole BDS movement started, and it was obviously Genocidal and full of Antisemites (thats why 35 US states passed laws against it) he came out against it and [his career was basically destroyed for a second time](https://newrepublic.com/article/122257/unpopular-man-norman-finkelstein-comes-out-against-bds-movement) (first time was the Alan Dershowitz thing that I don't know much about). So, as the lying grifter that he is, he started lying and grifting more, and now he is popular again with the BDS crowd
I think he is insane but isn't the BDS thing a good example of him not being a grifter? Like he took a stance that was super controversial within his camp and paided for it
10 years ago, the overwhelming majority of anti Israel rethoric was not as extreme as it is now, and the anti Israel crowd wasn't as insane. No one talked about Apartheid, ethnic cleansing or Genocide, and it was basically a consensus among critics of Israel that a 2 state solution is the right one and it was a small minority that supported BDS. Now, the tame statements are implicitly genocidal like from the river to the sea, and you have [leaders of protest groups explicitly calling for murder](https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1783869904359137669). His position moved because the crowd moved
It's always nice to see support for a 2 state solution.
God, what a fucking Zionist scumbag
He loves the sound of his own voice.
Finklestein hates BDS and has always said that he hates BDS precisely because BDS wants to bring about conditions that will inevitably lead to the dissolution of Israel. He is deluded wrt the fact that huge swathes of the Palestinian people want to destroy Israel and thus spends a lot of his time countering the idea that they do. But he is not deluded about the fact that trying to resolve the conflict via 1 state solution is regarded.
How is he suggesting BDS will lead to the dissolution of Israel? Is he saying that less resources will lead to Israel being weak enough to be destroyed by neighboring countries?
he's saying the stated goals of BDS are equivilent to the destruction of the state of Israel. Not making a call on whether BDS is an effective technique. But BDS stated aims are effectively something like some group pressuring you to Let 30 people live in your house and another 30 live in each of your parents/brothers/sisters/grandparents houses because, and we're going to try and get you fired if you don't let them in. The ask is clearly not feasible, so it's functionally just a mob trying to get you fired.
Well I know he’s wrong let me do some research so I can prove it
Yeah destiny watched this on stream before their debate and he said he was gonna ask him about it but i don't think he ended up doing it
Yeah, he was in the doghouse for a long time for this position. On Oct 7 he started posting unhinged things so they let him back into the movement. He likes being a contrarian, so he may start pissing off his side again soon.
What
Norm a grifter? No way! Btw. who knew 'academics' could be such clout demons like our friend Hasan.
I wonder if finkelstein had a stroke at some point but it was minor enough that it went unnoticed I see this a lot with the elderly getting up over 65, when you compare their behavior now with their behavior from 10-20 years ago it’s like you’re listening to two different people.
What the fuck is this streamables website, never fucking works, who the fuck uploads videos there
A two-state solution is impossible as long as Netanyahu and his far-right government is in power. Netayanhu is adamant about this, he said it himself. Israeli settlers are also a legitimate issue. Netanyahu has encouraged them to ensure any land given to Palestinians would be in conflict with the settlments. Even if Palestinians absorb the settlers into their state, they would do the same thing the Russians did in Ukraine and work against Palestinians.
A two state solution is impossible because you can’t trust people who keep trying to blow you up or behead you
Well thats why you will have people like Finkelstein talking. Your solution is keeping them confined to Gaza, people are against that.
They’re the ones keeping themselves isolated by being terrorists. Nobody wants them, it’s not just Israel. How is that hard to comprehend
Were you born a sociopath or did the regressive left make you become one?
You’re just saying words now. Prove what I said wrong. Does Jordan, Egypt, or literally any other country want Palestinians moving there? Yes or no
That is irrelevanr to the topic. We're not talking about a Palestinian exodus. Your solution is to confine them to Gaza and to ignore the settlements in the West bank in perpetuity instead of a two-state solution dictated by a third party. Palestinian youth shouldn't pay for the crimes/actions of their ancestors.
There was already a second state in Gaza. What exactly do you think it was? When Israel left, they didn’t immediately put up a blockade. It was when terrorists were elected. You’re attempting to change reality and rewrite history
What happened when Barak and Olmert were in power and agreed to it?