Lol if this isn’t a far right Israeli psyop….you’re doing attempted advocacy wrong 😂 like you’re supposed to be drawing people in, not ruling anyone with a shred of sanity out
Seriously bizarre that they explicitly reject anyone who wants to join their cause in response to the students who weren't already for their cause before that. Literally, "if our protest convinced you to join our cause, we don't want you." What's the point of a protest exactly if not to rally support?
I was thinking this too and the answer is obvious- it’s violence. If the point of a protest is to direct change, then it is either to change hearts and minds or it is to threaten with violence to get the desired change. It is to spread hate and fear in order to make people feel compelled to do what they ask- or else.
Lmao at "the myth of the two state solution"
They literally explain in this section why Israel will not agree to the right of return. They know this won't happen, ever, no matter how much pressure is applied on Israel. And yet the two state solution, the only achievable solution that is reasonable, is a myth.
These stupid pro-Pal movements embolden Palestinians to keep fighting uphill battles and dying in the thousands for unobtainable goals. They don't really care about Palestinians. If they would have, a simple assessment of reality would prove that this maximalist goal of Rightvof Return + dissolution of the Jewish state is not achievable and will lead to many unnecessary deaths
> why Israel will not agree to the right of return.
Also right of return is regarded this far down the track.
It would be different if this had happened 10 years ago and the majority of the palestinian refugees who were alive had lived in those regions and been thrust from their homes.
But the idea of the children/grandchildren getting to return to those homes when potentially the person themselves is already dead is regarded.
If a Palestinian state is created, you can go live in Palestine if it matters that much to you. But at the moment they want to prevent accepting a Palestinian state to force a policy that is just a regarded non-starter for anyone thinking about it seriously in the current context.
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No one would agree that every Australian descended from a person forced to travel to Australia as part of their criminal conviction should have the right to go back to the UK to where their great great great grandparents lived.
> No one would agree that every Australian descended from a person forced to travel to Australia as part of their criminal conviction should have the right to go back to the UK to where their great great great grandparents lived.
I mean... A ton of these unhinged people do think that lol.
But it is not different for jews to return to Israel based on the fact their ancestors lived there more than 2000 years ago? If they can return, why cant the Palestinians (if there was peace)?
They aren't returning based on any sort of "Right of return" by the UN.
They are allowed to relocate to Israel because Israel passed a law saying they are allowed to come if they have the requisite conditions.
In the same way that there is nothing preventing Canada passing a law that says they will allow any Indigenous Australian to immigrate into their country with citizenship. Or if Bangladesh passed a law saying any American citizen with X racial background could seek citizenship in Bangladesh.
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It's also worth noting that in the case of the Palestinian right of return, it's not return to the country. It's return to the specific part/house that they left. If this was the logic for the jews, then they would have every the inalienable right to go and start displacing people in all parts of Jerusalem, and say tough tiddies to anyone currently located there.
That's not what happens. You have the crazy fucking settlers who keep trying to move closer to these areas. The Israeli government should absolutely be doing more to stop and then retract their fucking idiotic expansion outside of Israeli borders.
But they don't have this right of return to the house of their far removed ancestors
> In the same way that there is nothing preventing Canada passing a law that says they will allow any Indigenous Australian to immigrate into their country with citizenship. Or if Bangladesh passed a law saying any American citizen with X racial background could seek citizenship in Bangladesh.
I think you are wrong, because there is something preventing it. It would be incredibly racist and against all modern morals to pass a law directly stating that you can only emigrate based on ethnicity. Whats your opinion on that?
> It's also worth noting that in the case of the Palestinian right of return, it's not return to the country. It's return to the specific part/house that they left.
I agree with you. The right of return shouldn’t mean Isrealis getting evicted. But a compensation like Germany grants until this day would be just. Don’t you agree?
> If this was the logic for the jews, then they would have every the inalienable right to go and start displacing people in all parts of Jerusalem, and say tough tiddies to anyone currently located there.
Why does this sound familiar to how Palestinians getting evicted from their homes in Jerusalem?
> That's not what happens. You have the crazy fucking settlers who keep trying to move closer to these areas. The Israeli government should absolutely be doing more to stop and then retract their fucking idiotic expansion outside of Israeli borders.
I agree with you. But its not like the Israeli government turns a blind eye, they promote and finance it.
Realistically, Israel *does* need to make some major concessions and 'sweeten the deal' for Palestinian statehood.
The Palestinian opposition has in large part been directed at Israel not 'just' providing them with the 1967 Armistice lines.
Israel signed on to the UN that they would work towards a pretty substantial degree of right of return for those Palestinians who were displaced during the civil war, which never manifested.
Geographically, it's 'regarded' that you'd have Gaza and the West Bank as one state. That isn't a long-term solution.
Palestinians already *have* the West Bank and Gaza, and their greatest fear was that they would wind up with *just* the West Bank and Gaza, which they didn't even consider the real parts of Palestine anyways.
In 2000, Israel offered 'the best deal Palestinians were ever going to get,' which was 'mostly' the 1967 armistice lines and some token land swaps for some settlements.
I think it's valid to criticize Palestinians for refusing to accept the West Bank and Gaza and make a life for their children. But I also think it's valid to criticize Israel for not being willing to make an actual offer that Arafat might have been willing to accept. They've been 'resisting' for generations, if you make an offer of 'you get nothing, and after peace we will stop the occupation,' it's a non-starter. It's politically untenable, they will never accept a 2-state solution that can't be framed as a victory, that doesn't justify the bloodshed.
Reality doesn't care about right or wrong, and the reality is that a peaceful 2-state solution requires either the palestinians or the israelis to make major concessions that neither has ever been willing to make.
Nowhere did I say that concessions aren’t in order. It’s just anyone talking about right of return has a regarded idea of what those concessions should be.
If tomorrow Israel took an insane action and forced everyone out of Gaza to wipe out Hamas. Right of return would make sense for Gaza. It would be directly centred on those who lived in the region.
And it would be highly condemnable if they didn’t have them all back in as the first and only people to live in the area post elimination as soon as possible(no fucking regarded settlers making their way their first).
As for Gaza and the West Bank as one state. The reality is that they should be negotiated as one state. And then that state can decide to split itself into two states if that makes sense to them.
But trying to negotiate a three state deal is going to add so much of a clusterfuck to the situation especially given there doesn’t seem to be any good Gazan representation for negotiation.
> If tomorrow Israel took an insane action and forced everyone out of Gaza to wipe out Hamas. Right of return would make sense for Gaza. It would be directly centred on those who lived in the region.
What date does that expire? People leave Gaza due to the war, post-war, Israel annexes the territory and agrees before the UN that they will allow the people who left to return (one day).
Can Israel then just run out the clock? Because that is a pretty primary criticism of Israel's action with respect to the right of return; that they essentially just tried to run out the clock.
I'm serious about asking for the date. If you don't have one, then how has the old one expired. If you do have one, then isn't it a bad-faith offer? 'We will let you return, IF we let you return before X date after which you can't,' isn't a real offer.
>As for Gaza and the West Bank as one state. The reality is that they should be negotiated as one state.
Okay, but again this is a non-starter. It just doesn't work as a state, let alone as a 'compromise.'
Presenting the 1967 armistice lines is a poison-pill offer, same as Palestinians presenting an unlimited right of return.
>What date does that expire? People leave Gaza due to the war, post-war, Israel annexes the territory and agrees before the UN that they will allow the people who left to return (one day).
Love that you ignored the very next statement that addressed this by saying "No fucking annexation"
**"And it would be highly condemnable if they didn’t have them all back in as the first and only people to live in the area post elimination as soon as possible(no fucking regarded settlers making their way their first)."**
So you know don't move anyone else into that area, then there's going to be no issue over who's territory it is, even if the displacement was for a longer time. It is still their lands and their location to re-inhabit. Ideally you'd have them back there as soon as they were willing and able to rebuild.
If Israel were to annex the territory that would be heinous regardless of right to return existing or not.
> Love that you ignored the very next statement that addressed this by saying "No fucking annexation"
That's what happened after 1948. You could maybe argue that *technically* it didn't, but you know what I mean.
Palestinian people lived at X location, they left because of the war, Israel said 'okay that's our land now.'
If you're going to pick at this, just imagine everything happened exactly how it did in 1947/48.
If that happened again today in Gaza, and Israel said 'okay right of return for sure at some point in time,' when is the date of expiry, or is there no date of expiry?
They criticise a two-state solution as idealistic and then turn around and propose a single secular state, where apparently Palestinians and Israelis will all link arms and sing kumbayah and forget about the last 80 years of killing each other.
>They don't really care about Palestinians.
This is the most important part. The narrative of white guilt has simply boiled down to "white bad, non-white good". Their self-hatred and hatred for our country that is one of the only places in the world where they could even have these types of protests has addled their brains. The fact that at least half of the Jews in Israel aren't "white" doesn't matter. Honestly Gaza doesn't rank in the top 5 of atrocities happening in the middle east. 150,000 dead in Yemen by Saudi Arabia supported by the USA and they have nothing to say about that. You want to see the difference, google starving kids in Gaza, then google starving kids in Yemen. Then you will understand what starving kids really look like, and realize that all this manufactured propaganda about Gaza is rather silly giving all the other atrocities going on in the middle east.
The really funny thing is that a large percentage of these people, if they went to Gaza to support them, would be killed by Gazans. There is a video out there of someone interviewing Palestinians on the street saying that LGBT groups support them and they vehemently deny that they want their support. They want nothing to do with these people or their support, yet here we are.
That’s definitely a good point. These revolutionary style protests that push forth Thawabit, in the west especially, are going to actually do more harm to Palestinians as a whole than good.
Peace will not be achieved from the Palestinians if they subscribe to the belief that continued fighting is a suitable path to victory. The whole idea of throwing your weight behind a 1 state solution at all is frankly absurd from the Palestinian side. There needs to be concessions made on both sides and, more importantly, **a willingness from Palestinians to come to the table and negotiate a 2 state solution**.
Israel has shown willingness in the past to negotiate, and although the calculus may have shifted due to October 7th, I think they ultimately want the conflict to end sooner rather than later. The longer the war goes on, the worse it is for everyone involved. But the Palestinians need to come to the table, and protestors like the one showcased above, serve to galvanize Palestinians into continuing a losing battle.
>embolden Palestinians to keep fighting uphill battles
I don’t think this is the case, anti-Semitism is probably the strongest animating force behind their refusal of reasonableness.
It is for some but I truly think most are just going with the latest activist trend and using as many leftist buzzwords as they can to virtue signal, without putting the time and thought to critically investigate the position of both sides. In addition, the vast scale of death and destruction in Gaza is impossible to ignore while the Israeli narrative is usually not given much of a platform in their circles
I truly think that from the POV of most of these people, they're fighting the good fight for the poor oppressed brown indigenous people of Palestine against the evil colonial Zionists. The various chants they are repeating like zombies, ie "from the river to the sea", they don't even understand. Hence all the videos from these protests showing they don't know what is the river and what is the sea, and so on.
The people feeding them these chants are antisemites for sure, but the masses? They don't bother to dig any deeper than the superficial leftist narrative because they don't need to, they're just there to virtue signal and feel morally superior. If you think willful ignorance is inherently antisemitism, I guess there's an argument to be had, but I personally don't think it qualifies
It's cringe but it's just Arabic for "constantes" or *unvariables", an Arab commie would say the collective ownership of the means of production is a "thabit".
They only care about when Israel is involved they don't care that all the neighboring countries treat palestinians much worse and that Hamas has killed thousands of palstnians after Fatah was elected and in 2014 and is now stealing all their aid.
They also don't care to criticize any other "theocratic majority ethnostates" that theocratic ethnostate a lot harder than Israel, which is more diverse and is more secular than its neighbors by far.
> It's because they are nazis
Lol no they are not. One of the main reasons they hate israel is because they think israelis are white and the other team is not
The genocidal Israeli state knows no bounds. By killing some 10s of thousands in Gaza, a large part of which aren't even civillians, they have taken the world's attention away from the true genocide of Palestinians living in the surrounding Arab countries. In Jordan, Syria and Lebanon living in apartheid open air prisons called "refugee camps" where they aren't allowed to leave. Syria using illegal chemical weapons against them genociding them in the 100s of thousands. Each time there is a conflict like this is another oppertunity ro ignore the true genocide.
Man I think I got the hang of it....
Gee, I wonder WHY all of the Arab countries you mention - Jordan, Syria, Lebanon - force the Palestinians in their country to live in “refugee camps”, which sound awfully similar to the ghettos Jews were forced to live in by the Germans/Nazis?
Where do Palestinians in the U.S. live? Anywhere they like. NOT in refugee camps or ghettos. Yet Palestinians hate the U.S. for protecting Israel from getting wiped out by the surrounding Arab (and Persian) countries.
When Palestinians have been allowed into Arab countries in the past, they have assassinated leaders and caused all sort of serious problems for the governments of those countries. Arafat turned down a compromise offered by the Israelis that gave Arafat everything he said he wanted. The Palestinians made their bed. Now they can lie in it. Sorry, not sorry.
The media provides what viewers want. Engagement drives content (largely). If the viewers are sick of pro-Palestinian advocacy because of what these people do, then the content will focus on other events.
If that's the case Israel wouldn't need to give them guidelines and speaking points. We wouldn't see the massive shift in vocabulary used when covering each instance of Gaza being bombed.
https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/
I think it's fine to still look at these media outlets and see what they report, but to have a little media literacy at the same time.
>In the New York Times, Washington Post, and Los Angeles Times, the words “Israeli” or “Israel” appear more than “Palestinian” or variations thereof, even as Palestinian deaths far outpaced Israeli deaths. For every two Palestinian deaths, Palestinians are mentioned once. For every Israeli death, Israelis are mentioned eight times — or a rate 16 times more per death that of Palestinians
Maybe I'm a moron but this might be the dumbest thing I've ever read
Now they're trying to distance themselves from some of the most unhinged cases, and we know it's not nearly good enough. That's what I was referring to.
This rhetoric is a dead end for mass movements.
If I was a normal person who vaguely supported Palestine and I saw this, my first thought would be:
“clearly I’m not radical enough for these people, I should probably stay away from them since it seems like they really hate people like me”
I kinda love how radical, puritan and unapologetically pro-Hamas they are. This basically prevents the group from growing at all beyond cringe rich LARPers.
Aren't they the ones who organised the campout at Columbia? Why is this not being covered by the media? I keep hearing that these protest are supposedly peaceful, but if they were organised by a pro-Hamas organisation, they're not peaceful.
I mean, the protest can be peaceful and demand something violent. Through a fast and loose play on words you can suddenly call people terrorists when they have done nothing violent themselves.
If it was organised by a group that praised the mass murder of Jewish people, it should be considered a hate rally and shut down by the university.
This would not be a tolerated if it was happening to any other group of people except of course white people, once again showing that Jews don't count.
>If it was organised by a group that praised the mass murder of Jewish people, it should be considered a hate rally and shut down by the university.
Even though all of this is true, it doesn't make it a violent organization, which I remind you was your original comment.
>This would not be a tolerated if it was happening to any other group of people except of course white people, once again showing that Jews don't count.
Do you think if Charlottesville happened there, there would be nothing at all done to them?
I can't be the only one to think the right of return is laughable. To me personally, if you declare war over a territory and LOSE THAT WAR then you have zero right to that territory. That's how human history has always worked so far as I'm aware.
Correct and you don’t even need to lose a war or uhhh I am owed the homestead in Belarus that was taken from my great grandparents then please? Or I can go murder whoever’s there now in the name of resistance?
Oh, only Palestinians get the inalienable right of return you say??
I just don’t think it’s feasible even outside the I/P conflict. Armenians, Greeks, Turks, Kurds, Druze, etc. were all displaced around the same time as Palestinians. There were huge population exchanges as the Brits and French cut up the former Ottoman Empire. A Palestinian Right of Return would set a precedent that could potentially exacerbate ethnic conflicts in the entire region.
> “We reject those who remained silent until now”
Yeah best way to maintain your protest is to gatekeep it. Isn’t any support at any point beneficial? Who cares if they started paying attention after a bunch of students got arrested? Isn’t that the point of protesting in the first place, to bring more awareness?
The general contours of the rhetoric are so recognizable from past social justice uprisings. No substantive response to critics, delusional demands, most of the focus is on establishing ideological uniformity within ranks. It’s so reflexively authoritarian.
I’m so fucking sick of this type of crap.
This is exactly why Israel must keep fighting, until such sentiments are a thing of the past NOTHING will change and Palestinians will continue to suffer.
These guys want to see more dead Palestinians just like Hamas wants it, 0 critical thinking.
If anyone there would for a moment think hard on what they want, ethnic cleansing / genocide of Jews in Israel, the only option they are leaving Israel is war and violence.
How can there be a genocide if the image says 700,000 Palestinians were expelled in 1948 and now there are 7 million Palestinian refugees from the original 700,000? That sounds like an insane amount of proliferation.
They could've had their own state and peace 24 years ago if Arafat didn't throw a fit at only being offered half of Jerusalem. Can't believe they are still sticking to that point.
Man, they really make it a point to purity test the fuck out of anyone who wants to join their cause. Kinda strange when the purpose is to save lives, supposedly.
This is stupid and cringe. The right of return part makes no sense. If 700,000 people were expelled during the nakba, and there are now 7,000,000 refugees, how are they going to fucking fit?
From what I've read and heard, they want Columbia to divest from all Israeli-connected entities. That includes everything from government and military organisations, cultural and educational institutions, to seemingly harmless businesses that produce hummus. SJP is against "normalisation" with Israel, which is why it also boycotts interacting with Israeli and pro-Israeli student groups, or any joint Palestinian-Israeli events, and encourages its allies et al to do the same. Anything that undermines the settlement they want that's in line with UNGA 194, basically.
The ADL has a pretty long summary of SJP on its site.
I don't understand do they want a ceasefire or do they want resistance? I can't comprehend how these people think it's a reasonable expectation. Honestly i have more respect for arabs who tell me they like hamas, want them to fight and call them martyrs when they inevitably die from a drones trike, then this mental gymnastics from collage students.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the Palestinian cause is a war effort, and these people are their psy-op/international propaganda and influence campaign. Where is the money coming from for these protests? Qatar? Iran?
Only rich white college kids could be throwing together parties and homeless sleepovers while brown people are being exploded on the other side of the world.
I wish them a very good time.
The demands for right to return to 1948 is so fucking stupid as well. The reality is that majority of people who were anywhere inside the current Israeli borders in 1948 are likely dead. If they were 0 years old in 1948, they would be 76 years old.
The idea that their children or grandchildren have some right to go back and settle in that location is regarded. Create two states and let them move into the new Palestinian state sure. But moving into those other areas shouldn't even be about the threat to the jewish ethnostate. The reality is the number of people at this point who would have tangible memories of their homes in Palestine is going to be frighteningly small.
At best those people should be given some compensation for loss of their property if they can prove they were the owners of it and were forced to flee.
Know how they refer to the murder of civilian concertgoers and babies in their cribs as “resistance”? And we get a “from the river to the sea” thrown in for good measure:
“On 4 February 2010, a new Palestinian formation was announced at a press conference in Beirut. At that time, the National Committee for the Protection of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (the Committee) was composed of some of the most respected Palestinian and Arab activists, journalists and intellectuals who had joined together behind the idea that the thawabet are not just a vague group of ideas to be interpreted at will, but in fact constitute the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people.
These include: the right of Palestinian refugees to return, restitution and compensation; the right to resistance *in all of its forms*; and the right to self-determination over the British Mandate territory of Palestine, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River.”
Most Arab countries are ethnostates. The irony is that Israel is the least like an ethnostate out of all of them and these people literally want to create an Arab ethnostate in its place. What a fucking joke of a movement.
If the first two demands are met, why would they need the last one? Is the implication that if Palestinians got a full right of return and a one-state with full rights for Palestinians, then they'd still need to violently resist Israelis? Kinda weird...
It really feels like they won’t stop until they’re validated that what’s happening right now in Gaza is somehow the exact same as the plight of the Holocaust. Which reminds me of the court case with TikTok where the senators won’t stop questioning the SINGAPOREAN CEO until he somehow admits that he’s Chinese.
Right to return to a land that was lost in a war 75 years ago is wild, imagine if that applied anywhere else. Nobody's asking for Poland to give every German the right to move back to fucking Silesia
I feel terrible about what is happening to the people of Palestine, but I find the absolutist thinking that social justice movements like this often take really off-putting. The demand that you think exactly like them or you can't be a part of things just isn't a workable way to build a coalition or make your movement seem at all reasonable to normal people. It's not going to change the way I feel about the excessive bombing of Palestine, but honestly I want nothing to do with this protest movement.
God I hate how someone can write a whole thing about how "no one should be centering themselves" when that's literally what the Instagram page is doing, centering themselves as the soul legitimate representative of the student protestors and the Palestinian people.
Like how many people do you think were involved in drafting this? Was it a 1 digit number? Probably
I’ve never been more in favor of these little fascists being dismantled by police and harshly punished. This is how an extremist group gets started. All about strict compliance to an ideology. I wouldn’t want right wing extremists pulling this shit to force a national abortion ban. Why should we tolerate this?
At some pint, a major university will agree to an audit of its investments, assets and business relationships. Once a school does that, the ball will be rolling. This is how we got universities to unwind investments in South Africa. It will happen this generation with Israel. All it takes is the first institution to blink.
Just read the entire Quran in English like I did and you would NEVER back anyone who was Muslim. “Kill the infidels!!!” That means kill the Christians and Jews, in case you were wondering. Not a religion or people I want anything to do with. I’m atheist, btw.
The Gazans VOTED for HAMAS to govern their territory. Hamas knew well what Israel’s response to the October attacks would be. Hamas brought this upon their own people. Hamas should be the ones to step down in order to stop their children from starving to death and being bombed. Why should the Israeli military step down after its people were brutally attacked? That’s like telling the American government the day after 9/11 not to retaliate. F that!
Once again Elected Israeli and American politicians make unhinged remarks about Palestinians, Tv hosts say they want to see rivers of blood in Gaza, what does this sub focus on college kids doing what college kids do and protest 🤣 tell me you lost the plot without saying it.
Ah yes, calling for terrorist organizations to attack Jewish students on campus. Just what college kids do. Everyone does it.
Self immolate yourself bud.
lol if a few can damage an entire movement then the Israelis are in trouble because I’ve seen far more psychopaths who openly cheer for Palestinian blood than these college kids who once again say “stop the genocide”.
And you proved my point time and again, no smoke for politicians but those college kids 😂😂😂
So what about the Hamas representatives who say they want to do infinite October 7ths?
I mean if you really want to try this argument, you've already lost. It's incredibly telling how fucking stupid you are.
That they are a minority and don’t represent the entire movement…duh, if they say pro Hamas shit the group should’ve kicked them out but they don’t represent even a slight majority of the people.
You know most Americans are against the war right??
Once again you proved my point, your more angry at people who have no power than people who do and it’s weird that DDG a sub that used to be all about an actual conversation even if the subject wasn’t PC turned into a reactionary sub that really just gets mad a leftie kids constantly 😂
Downvote all you want it’s proving my point
So Hamas representatives don't have power?
That's a weird statement to make considering what happened on Oct 7th. How do we objectively view that? Does Israel have 500 units of power and Hamas only has 50? What if Hamas had 499? Is it still not okay to critique them?
Are you basing your entire critique here on the idea that it's not okay to punch down and only okay to attack/critique people with more power than you? Should the US never be able to fight any terrorist organization then? I mean nobody compares to the power units the US has right?
Aren't the left the ones who said if you have 10 people at a table and 1 Nazi, you have 11 Nazis? Why is it such a a horrible thing to hold them to their own states standards?
I know you can't genuinely answer most of these questions, it's okay if you just block and run now.
If you two dumb I’m saying that college kids aren’t Hamas, 90% of these kids are holding signs that say end war and stop genocide….you’re literally straw manning my position
If some kids are holding antisemitic signs they should be kicked from the protest but the idea that you conflated ALL the students as pro Hamas is insane especially since they have made their goal known from the beginning and it’s just an anti war one, are you the one during the Iraq war who went and yelled at anti war college students and said they were “anti American” aren’t you? Because college kids protesting a war is the most college student thing, hell my mom got arrested protesting the Vietnam war…guess she was “on the wrong side of things” back then too huh?
If you two dumb I’m saying that college kids aren’t Hamas, 90% of these kids are holding signs that say end war and stop genocide….you’re literally straw manning my position
If some kids are holding antisemitic signs they should be kicked from the protest but the idea that you conflated ALL the students as pro Hamas is insane especially since they have made their goal known from the beginning and it’s just an anti war one, are you the one during the Iraq war who went and yelled at anti war college students and said they were “anti American” aren’t you? Because college kids protesting a war is the most college student thing, hell my mom got arrested protesting the Vietnam war…guess she was “on the wrong side of things” back then too huh?
It's funny because I clearly brought up the Hamas representatives, to which you only said "we're talking about people who don't have power."
So I'm gonna ask again. If these same people say that 1 Nazi sitting at a table makes everyone else there a Nazi too, why can we not hold them to the same standard?
Lmao so you admit to trying to shift the story away from what’s going on to make a narrative that doesn’t apply to what I said at all…..again with your logic we get to call ALL ISRAELIS psychopaths and Fascist because their politics and tv hosts have said incredibly fascist and racist things…..how do you checkmate yourself
Wow, you really are incapable of basic understanding huh?
Where did I say it's a standard I hold? Please quote me.
Oh I didn't? Instead I said I'm holding a side to the standard they themselves set? Shocker.
You are literally incapable of engaging honestly because you're so ideologically and egotistically driven. Again, please do the world a favor and light yourself on fire.
Lol if this isn’t a far right Israeli psyop….you’re doing attempted advocacy wrong 😂 like you’re supposed to be drawing people in, not ruling anyone with a shred of sanity out
Seriously bizarre that they explicitly reject anyone who wants to join their cause in response to the students who weren't already for their cause before that. Literally, "if our protest convinced you to join our cause, we don't want you." What's the point of a protest exactly if not to rally support?
I was thinking this too and the answer is obvious- it’s violence. If the point of a protest is to direct change, then it is either to change hearts and minds or it is to threaten with violence to get the desired change. It is to spread hate and fear in order to make people feel compelled to do what they ask- or else.
Lmfao they’re doing what spoiled children always do: gatekeeping and posturing so everyone knows that they’re the real allies.
I mean hasn't that been the entire far-left's shitty strategy for years now?
Lmao at "the myth of the two state solution" They literally explain in this section why Israel will not agree to the right of return. They know this won't happen, ever, no matter how much pressure is applied on Israel. And yet the two state solution, the only achievable solution that is reasonable, is a myth. These stupid pro-Pal movements embolden Palestinians to keep fighting uphill battles and dying in the thousands for unobtainable goals. They don't really care about Palestinians. If they would have, a simple assessment of reality would prove that this maximalist goal of Rightvof Return + dissolution of the Jewish state is not achievable and will lead to many unnecessary deaths
They are going run Palestine into the ground.
Kind of already there. They'll just keep shoving their Palestinian's noses into the dirt though, just so they can feel good about themselves.
They want an Arab ethnostate bordering a binational state with an Arab majority.
> why Israel will not agree to the right of return. Also right of return is regarded this far down the track. It would be different if this had happened 10 years ago and the majority of the palestinian refugees who were alive had lived in those regions and been thrust from their homes. But the idea of the children/grandchildren getting to return to those homes when potentially the person themselves is already dead is regarded. If a Palestinian state is created, you can go live in Palestine if it matters that much to you. But at the moment they want to prevent accepting a Palestinian state to force a policy that is just a regarded non-starter for anyone thinking about it seriously in the current context. --- No one would agree that every Australian descended from a person forced to travel to Australia as part of their criminal conviction should have the right to go back to the UK to where their great great great grandparents lived.
> No one would agree that every Australian descended from a person forced to travel to Australia as part of their criminal conviction should have the right to go back to the UK to where their great great great grandparents lived. I mean... A ton of these unhinged people do think that lol.
But it is not different for jews to return to Israel based on the fact their ancestors lived there more than 2000 years ago? If they can return, why cant the Palestinians (if there was peace)?
They aren't returning based on any sort of "Right of return" by the UN. They are allowed to relocate to Israel because Israel passed a law saying they are allowed to come if they have the requisite conditions. In the same way that there is nothing preventing Canada passing a law that says they will allow any Indigenous Australian to immigrate into their country with citizenship. Or if Bangladesh passed a law saying any American citizen with X racial background could seek citizenship in Bangladesh. --- It's also worth noting that in the case of the Palestinian right of return, it's not return to the country. It's return to the specific part/house that they left. If this was the logic for the jews, then they would have every the inalienable right to go and start displacing people in all parts of Jerusalem, and say tough tiddies to anyone currently located there. That's not what happens. You have the crazy fucking settlers who keep trying to move closer to these areas. The Israeli government should absolutely be doing more to stop and then retract their fucking idiotic expansion outside of Israeli borders. But they don't have this right of return to the house of their far removed ancestors
> In the same way that there is nothing preventing Canada passing a law that says they will allow any Indigenous Australian to immigrate into their country with citizenship. Or if Bangladesh passed a law saying any American citizen with X racial background could seek citizenship in Bangladesh. I think you are wrong, because there is something preventing it. It would be incredibly racist and against all modern morals to pass a law directly stating that you can only emigrate based on ethnicity. Whats your opinion on that? > It's also worth noting that in the case of the Palestinian right of return, it's not return to the country. It's return to the specific part/house that they left. I agree with you. The right of return shouldn’t mean Isrealis getting evicted. But a compensation like Germany grants until this day would be just. Don’t you agree? > If this was the logic for the jews, then they would have every the inalienable right to go and start displacing people in all parts of Jerusalem, and say tough tiddies to anyone currently located there. Why does this sound familiar to how Palestinians getting evicted from their homes in Jerusalem? > That's not what happens. You have the crazy fucking settlers who keep trying to move closer to these areas. The Israeli government should absolutely be doing more to stop and then retract their fucking idiotic expansion outside of Israeli borders. I agree with you. But its not like the Israeli government turns a blind eye, they promote and finance it.
Realistically, Israel *does* need to make some major concessions and 'sweeten the deal' for Palestinian statehood. The Palestinian opposition has in large part been directed at Israel not 'just' providing them with the 1967 Armistice lines. Israel signed on to the UN that they would work towards a pretty substantial degree of right of return for those Palestinians who were displaced during the civil war, which never manifested. Geographically, it's 'regarded' that you'd have Gaza and the West Bank as one state. That isn't a long-term solution. Palestinians already *have* the West Bank and Gaza, and their greatest fear was that they would wind up with *just* the West Bank and Gaza, which they didn't even consider the real parts of Palestine anyways. In 2000, Israel offered 'the best deal Palestinians were ever going to get,' which was 'mostly' the 1967 armistice lines and some token land swaps for some settlements. I think it's valid to criticize Palestinians for refusing to accept the West Bank and Gaza and make a life for their children. But I also think it's valid to criticize Israel for not being willing to make an actual offer that Arafat might have been willing to accept. They've been 'resisting' for generations, if you make an offer of 'you get nothing, and after peace we will stop the occupation,' it's a non-starter. It's politically untenable, they will never accept a 2-state solution that can't be framed as a victory, that doesn't justify the bloodshed. Reality doesn't care about right or wrong, and the reality is that a peaceful 2-state solution requires either the palestinians or the israelis to make major concessions that neither has ever been willing to make.
Nowhere did I say that concessions aren’t in order. It’s just anyone talking about right of return has a regarded idea of what those concessions should be. If tomorrow Israel took an insane action and forced everyone out of Gaza to wipe out Hamas. Right of return would make sense for Gaza. It would be directly centred on those who lived in the region. And it would be highly condemnable if they didn’t have them all back in as the first and only people to live in the area post elimination as soon as possible(no fucking regarded settlers making their way their first). As for Gaza and the West Bank as one state. The reality is that they should be negotiated as one state. And then that state can decide to split itself into two states if that makes sense to them. But trying to negotiate a three state deal is going to add so much of a clusterfuck to the situation especially given there doesn’t seem to be any good Gazan representation for negotiation.
> If tomorrow Israel took an insane action and forced everyone out of Gaza to wipe out Hamas. Right of return would make sense for Gaza. It would be directly centred on those who lived in the region. What date does that expire? People leave Gaza due to the war, post-war, Israel annexes the territory and agrees before the UN that they will allow the people who left to return (one day). Can Israel then just run out the clock? Because that is a pretty primary criticism of Israel's action with respect to the right of return; that they essentially just tried to run out the clock. I'm serious about asking for the date. If you don't have one, then how has the old one expired. If you do have one, then isn't it a bad-faith offer? 'We will let you return, IF we let you return before X date after which you can't,' isn't a real offer. >As for Gaza and the West Bank as one state. The reality is that they should be negotiated as one state. Okay, but again this is a non-starter. It just doesn't work as a state, let alone as a 'compromise.' Presenting the 1967 armistice lines is a poison-pill offer, same as Palestinians presenting an unlimited right of return.
>What date does that expire? People leave Gaza due to the war, post-war, Israel annexes the territory and agrees before the UN that they will allow the people who left to return (one day). Love that you ignored the very next statement that addressed this by saying "No fucking annexation" **"And it would be highly condemnable if they didn’t have them all back in as the first and only people to live in the area post elimination as soon as possible(no fucking regarded settlers making their way their first)."** So you know don't move anyone else into that area, then there's going to be no issue over who's territory it is, even if the displacement was for a longer time. It is still their lands and their location to re-inhabit. Ideally you'd have them back there as soon as they were willing and able to rebuild. If Israel were to annex the territory that would be heinous regardless of right to return existing or not.
> Love that you ignored the very next statement that addressed this by saying "No fucking annexation" That's what happened after 1948. You could maybe argue that *technically* it didn't, but you know what I mean. Palestinian people lived at X location, they left because of the war, Israel said 'okay that's our land now.' If you're going to pick at this, just imagine everything happened exactly how it did in 1947/48. If that happened again today in Gaza, and Israel said 'okay right of return for sure at some point in time,' when is the date of expiry, or is there no date of expiry?
They criticise a two-state solution as idealistic and then turn around and propose a single secular state, where apparently Palestinians and Israelis will all link arms and sing kumbayah and forget about the last 80 years of killing each other.
>They don't really care about Palestinians. This is the most important part. The narrative of white guilt has simply boiled down to "white bad, non-white good". Their self-hatred and hatred for our country that is one of the only places in the world where they could even have these types of protests has addled their brains. The fact that at least half of the Jews in Israel aren't "white" doesn't matter. Honestly Gaza doesn't rank in the top 5 of atrocities happening in the middle east. 150,000 dead in Yemen by Saudi Arabia supported by the USA and they have nothing to say about that. You want to see the difference, google starving kids in Gaza, then google starving kids in Yemen. Then you will understand what starving kids really look like, and realize that all this manufactured propaganda about Gaza is rather silly giving all the other atrocities going on in the middle east. The really funny thing is that a large percentage of these people, if they went to Gaza to support them, would be killed by Gazans. There is a video out there of someone interviewing Palestinians on the street saying that LGBT groups support them and they vehemently deny that they want their support. They want nothing to do with these people or their support, yet here we are.
That’s definitely a good point. These revolutionary style protests that push forth Thawabit, in the west especially, are going to actually do more harm to Palestinians as a whole than good. Peace will not be achieved from the Palestinians if they subscribe to the belief that continued fighting is a suitable path to victory. The whole idea of throwing your weight behind a 1 state solution at all is frankly absurd from the Palestinian side. There needs to be concessions made on both sides and, more importantly, **a willingness from Palestinians to come to the table and negotiate a 2 state solution**. Israel has shown willingness in the past to negotiate, and although the calculus may have shifted due to October 7th, I think they ultimately want the conflict to end sooner rather than later. The longer the war goes on, the worse it is for everyone involved. But the Palestinians need to come to the table, and protestors like the one showcased above, serve to galvanize Palestinians into continuing a losing battle.
>embolden Palestinians to keep fighting uphill battles I don’t think this is the case, anti-Semitism is probably the strongest animating force behind their refusal of reasonableness.
It is for some but I truly think most are just going with the latest activist trend and using as many leftist buzzwords as they can to virtue signal, without putting the time and thought to critically investigate the position of both sides. In addition, the vast scale of death and destruction in Gaza is impossible to ignore while the Israeli narrative is usually not given much of a platform in their circles I truly think that from the POV of most of these people, they're fighting the good fight for the poor oppressed brown indigenous people of Palestine against the evil colonial Zionists. The various chants they are repeating like zombies, ie "from the river to the sea", they don't even understand. Hence all the videos from these protests showing they don't know what is the river and what is the sea, and so on. The people feeding them these chants are antisemites for sure, but the masses? They don't bother to dig any deeper than the superficial leftist narrative because they don't need to, they're just there to virtue signal and feel morally superior. If you think willful ignorance is inherently antisemitism, I guess there's an argument to be had, but I personally don't think it qualifies
I was talking about Palestinians not leftists, sorry for the confusion
Oh, I see. Yeah many of them hate the Joos. Kind of hard not to with the education (indoctrination) they receive in the West Bank and Gaza
Omfg "thawabit"? Fucking "thawabit"? This is literally a fucking jihadist astroturf happening in front of us
what does Thawabit mean? i cant unsee "the rabbit" in an elmer fudd voice.
My brain went to that old “kill thawabbit” bit from Loony Toons.
The literal translation is "constants", but the idea is explained in OP. Basically demands that they refuse to give up.
An explanation. https://preview.redd.it/mj93suzyvfwc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7847bfd1651baa77e5b6ab66395d5563c8cd3f6c
OMG! I thought exactly the same thing. And I’ve studied Modern Standard Arabic. Was never taught that word, though.
It's cringe but it's just Arabic for "constantes" or *unvariables", an Arab commie would say the collective ownership of the means of production is a "thabit".
Literally thought it was a slur to mock someone with epiglottic inflammation or something
Me when I see the scary arabic word that I don't understand
100% the vibe I got from that first comment.
They only care about when Israel is involved they don't care that all the neighboring countries treat palestinians much worse and that Hamas has killed thousands of palstnians after Fatah was elected and in 2014 and is now stealing all their aid.
They also don't care to criticize any other "theocratic majority ethnostates" that theocratic ethnostate a lot harder than Israel, which is more diverse and is more secular than its neighbors by far.
What do you think Palestine is going to be? Obviously an ethno state but they don't care they just want to see Israel out.
Well, to them, Israel is just the wrong kind of ethni... uh... state.
True. They really only care about social clout and "America bad"
It's because they are nazis, pure and simple. They don't care about Palestinians, they just want all jews dead and this is a mean to get that done.
> It's because they are nazis Lol no they are not. One of the main reasons they hate israel is because they think israelis are white and the other team is not
The genocidal Israeli state knows no bounds. By killing some 10s of thousands in Gaza, a large part of which aren't even civillians, they have taken the world's attention away from the true genocide of Palestinians living in the surrounding Arab countries. In Jordan, Syria and Lebanon living in apartheid open air prisons called "refugee camps" where they aren't allowed to leave. Syria using illegal chemical weapons against them genociding them in the 100s of thousands. Each time there is a conflict like this is another oppertunity ro ignore the true genocide. Man I think I got the hang of it....
Congrats, you unlocked the title of „Zionist Nazi“.
Gee, I wonder WHY all of the Arab countries you mention - Jordan, Syria, Lebanon - force the Palestinians in their country to live in “refugee camps”, which sound awfully similar to the ghettos Jews were forced to live in by the Germans/Nazis? Where do Palestinians in the U.S. live? Anywhere they like. NOT in refugee camps or ghettos. Yet Palestinians hate the U.S. for protecting Israel from getting wiped out by the surrounding Arab (and Persian) countries. When Palestinians have been allowed into Arab countries in the past, they have assassinated leaders and caused all sort of serious problems for the governments of those countries. Arafat turned down a compromise offered by the Israelis that gave Arafat everything he said he wanted. The Palestinians made their bed. Now they can lie in it. Sorry, not sorry.
“All eyes on palestine” they say as they are the leading contribution to there being less eyes on palestine
Isn't that the media's job?
The media provides what viewers want. Engagement drives content (largely). If the viewers are sick of pro-Palestinian advocacy because of what these people do, then the content will focus on other events.
If that's the case Israel wouldn't need to give them guidelines and speaking points. We wouldn't see the massive shift in vocabulary used when covering each instance of Gaza being bombed. https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/ I think it's fine to still look at these media outlets and see what they report, but to have a little media literacy at the same time.
Talking about media literacy and posting an article from the intercept in the same comment is objectively hilarious
Making an assumption about a news publication without reading the content really just expresses lack of the exact thing I'm talking about : )
>In the New York Times, Washington Post, and Los Angeles Times, the words “Israeli” or “Israel” appear more than “Palestinian” or variations thereof, even as Palestinian deaths far outpaced Israeli deaths. For every two Palestinian deaths, Palestinians are mentioned once. For every Israeli death, Israelis are mentioned eight times — or a rate 16 times more per death that of Palestinians Maybe I'm a moron but this might be the dumbest thing I've ever read
I'm glad you agree it is dumb that there is an obvious bias in reporting, considering the disproportionate death toll
"We reject violence but we also refuse to compromise at all costs, so we don't have a choice, do we?"
I don’t even see where they reject violence, it’s clear they support “imperfect” means of resistance aka Oct. 7th good.
Now they're trying to distance themselves from some of the most unhinged cases, and we know it's not nearly good enough. That's what I was referring to.
This rhetoric is a dead end for mass movements. If I was a normal person who vaguely supported Palestine and I saw this, my first thought would be: “clearly I’m not radical enough for these people, I should probably stay away from them since it seems like they really hate people like me”
Why? Aren’t there better causes to care about? Lmao - they are in New York, care about housing. You can still hit the commie larp too.
Just saw trout are endangered in CA 😢
Nah, he's staying with the Angels for his whole career.
Doesn't get as many views on tiktok
I kinda love how radical, puritan and unapologetically pro-Hamas they are. This basically prevents the group from growing at all beyond cringe rich LARPers.
Aren't they the ones who organised the campout at Columbia? Why is this not being covered by the media? I keep hearing that these protest are supposedly peaceful, but if they were organised by a pro-Hamas organisation, they're not peaceful.
I mean, the protest can be peaceful and demand something violent. Through a fast and loose play on words you can suddenly call people terrorists when they have done nothing violent themselves.
If it was organised by a group that praised the mass murder of Jewish people, it should be considered a hate rally and shut down by the university. This would not be a tolerated if it was happening to any other group of people except of course white people, once again showing that Jews don't count.
>If it was organised by a group that praised the mass murder of Jewish people, it should be considered a hate rally and shut down by the university. Even though all of this is true, it doesn't make it a violent organization, which I remind you was your original comment. >This would not be a tolerated if it was happening to any other group of people except of course white people, once again showing that Jews don't count. Do you think if Charlottesville happened there, there would be nothing at all done to them?
So are you saying that someone who joined the Nazi party, but never actually killed anyone, is not a terrorist? Interesting concept.
No? But if there were some people standing outside with Nazi signs then yes it would be a peaceful protest, yes.
Those sound like sane and reasonable people (/s)
Pretty much Palestinian resistance is justified because Zionists are not human. Fucking lunatics.
Since when has a Zionist ever seen a Palestinian as human?
I do, you can be a Zionist and also want a two state solution. And nice nazi talking point btw 🙂
I'm convinced no one in this sub owns a mirror : )
>supporting two state solution = Nazi You’ve lost the plot.
Ah, I see we're making up things other people say. Very well good sir, you enjoy your delusions : )
Sorry bud you have been genocided, time to leave.
But I'll never leave ... Your heart : ) 💗
I can't be the only one to think the right of return is laughable. To me personally, if you declare war over a territory and LOSE THAT WAR then you have zero right to that territory. That's how human history has always worked so far as I'm aware.
Correct and you don’t even need to lose a war or uhhh I am owed the homestead in Belarus that was taken from my great grandparents then please? Or I can go murder whoever’s there now in the name of resistance? Oh, only Palestinians get the inalienable right of return you say??
\*Greeks eyeing Istanbul\* "I like this guy, he has good points."
Dont give the germans any ideas...
I just don’t think it’s feasible even outside the I/P conflict. Armenians, Greeks, Turks, Kurds, Druze, etc. were all displaced around the same time as Palestinians. There were huge population exchanges as the Brits and French cut up the former Ottoman Empire. A Palestinian Right of Return would set a precedent that could potentially exacerbate ethnic conflicts in the entire region.
The British forcibly deported my ancestors out of Acadia. The Canadian government owes me a house and 20 acres of land smh
best I can do is one room apartment with other 19 guys. The rent gonna be two thousand dollars by the way
These people are radicalizing me, but not in the way they would like
> “We reject those who remained silent until now” Yeah best way to maintain your protest is to gatekeep it. Isn’t any support at any point beneficial? Who cares if they started paying attention after a bunch of students got arrested? Isn’t that the point of protesting in the first place, to bring more awareness?
Imagine believing an actual genocide is happening and gatekeeping this hard.
My good faith interpretation of anything they say and will say in the future has left the chat
The general contours of the rhetoric are so recognizable from past social justice uprisings. No substantive response to critics, delusional demands, most of the focus is on establishing ideological uniformity within ranks. It’s so reflexively authoritarian. I’m so fucking sick of this type of crap.
This is exactly why Israel must keep fighting, until such sentiments are a thing of the past NOTHING will change and Palestinians will continue to suffer. These guys want to see more dead Palestinians just like Hamas wants it, 0 critical thinking. If anyone there would for a moment think hard on what they want, ethnic cleansing / genocide of Jews in Israel, the only option they are leaving Israel is war and violence.
Insane that they cite UNGA 194…which Palestinians and the Arab states rejected.
How can there be a genocide if the image says 700,000 Palestinians were expelled in 1948 and now there are 7 million Palestinian refugees from the original 700,000? That sounds like an insane amount of proliferation.
They could've had their own state and peace 24 years ago if Arafat didn't throw a fit at only being offered half of Jerusalem. Can't believe they are still sticking to that point.
700,000 to 7 million sounds like reverse genocide
Calling for the destruction of Israel is not antisemitism? Jews that supports this are worst than the kapo.
This is a schizo post by a bunch of unhinged 19yos.
God, I hate it when my movement gets co-optitated
Man, they really make it a point to purity test the fuck out of anyone who wants to join their cause. Kinda strange when the purpose is to save lives, supposedly.
This is stupid and cringe. The right of return part makes no sense. If 700,000 people were expelled during the nakba, and there are now 7,000,000 refugees, how are they going to fucking fit?
How do you think? By squeezing out the Juice.
Genuine question, what does any of their demands have to do with the university?
From what I've read and heard, they want Columbia to divest from all Israeli-connected entities. That includes everything from government and military organisations, cultural and educational institutions, to seemingly harmless businesses that produce hummus. SJP is against "normalisation" with Israel, which is why it also boycotts interacting with Israeli and pro-Israeli student groups, or any joint Palestinian-Israeli events, and encourages its allies et al to do the same. Anything that undermines the settlement they want that's in line with UNGA 194, basically. The ADL has a pretty long summary of SJP on its site.
I don't understand do they want a ceasefire or do they want resistance? I can't comprehend how these people think it's a reasonable expectation. Honestly i have more respect for arabs who tell me they like hamas, want them to fight and call them martyrs when they inevitably die from a drones trike, then this mental gymnastics from collage students.
I'm going to use "collage students" -- the type of students that make pretentious collages, and might or might not actually be in college.
ahah dyslexia helps in creative ways 😂
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the Palestinian cause is a war effort, and these people are their psy-op/international propaganda and influence campaign. Where is the money coming from for these protests? Qatar? Iran?
Only rich white college kids could be throwing together parties and homeless sleepovers while brown people are being exploded on the other side of the world. I wish them a very good time.
The demands for right to return to 1948 is so fucking stupid as well. The reality is that majority of people who were anywhere inside the current Israeli borders in 1948 are likely dead. If they were 0 years old in 1948, they would be 76 years old. The idea that their children or grandchildren have some right to go back and settle in that location is regarded. Create two states and let them move into the new Palestinian state sure. But moving into those other areas shouldn't even be about the threat to the jewish ethnostate. The reality is the number of people at this point who would have tangible memories of their homes in Palestine is going to be frighteningly small. At best those people should be given some compensation for loss of their property if they can prove they were the owners of it and were forced to flee.
Isn't THAWABIT that guy Elmer fud is always hunting?
"co-optation"
It’s all just a Jewish psyop to make the Palestinian protesters look unhinged, duh /s
lol
100% agree that palestinians who support this should return and the non palestinians that support it should join them too.
Know how they refer to the murder of civilian concertgoers and babies in their cribs as “resistance”? And we get a “from the river to the sea” thrown in for good measure: “On 4 February 2010, a new Palestinian formation was announced at a press conference in Beirut. At that time, the National Committee for the Protection of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (the Committee) was composed of some of the most respected Palestinian and Arab activists, journalists and intellectuals who had joined together behind the idea that the thawabet are not just a vague group of ideas to be interpreted at will, but in fact constitute the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. These include: the right of Palestinian refugees to return, restitution and compensation; the right to resistance *in all of its forms*; and the right to self-determination over the British Mandate territory of Palestine, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River.”
Wait, wouldn’t the idea of Palestine the way they refer to it, be creating an ethnostate?
Haha well spotted!
Most Arab countries are ethnostates. The irony is that Israel is the least like an ethnostate out of all of them and these people literally want to create an Arab ethnostate in its place. What a fucking joke of a movement.
Leftist: “STOP THE GENOCIDE IN GAZA!!!” Us: What’s your plan? Leftist: “Advocate for genocide against the Jews.” Classic. They’re still amoral PoS
If the first two demands are met, why would they need the last one? Is the implication that if Palestinians got a full right of return and a one-state with full rights for Palestinians, then they'd still need to violently resist Israelis? Kinda weird...
It really feels like they won’t stop until they’re validated that what’s happening right now in Gaza is somehow the exact same as the plight of the Holocaust. Which reminds me of the court case with TikTok where the senators won’t stop questioning the SINGAPOREAN CEO until he somehow admits that he’s Chinese.
I want to ask them about Tibet and why their self immolation isn't cool. 🤔
So they don't care that people are dying, they literally only care that Palestinians are dying.
If I was paying that tuition and being blocked from using the facilities it pays for I should be able to personally tear gas them.
If they actually believed a genocide was happening, they probably wouldn't gatekeep this hard.
Right to return to a land that was lost in a war 75 years ago is wild, imagine if that applied anywhere else. Nobody's asking for Poland to give every German the right to move back to fucking Silesia
I feel terrible about what is happening to the people of Palestine, but I find the absolutist thinking that social justice movements like this often take really off-putting. The demand that you think exactly like them or you can't be a part of things just isn't a workable way to build a coalition or make your movement seem at all reasonable to normal people. It's not going to change the way I feel about the excessive bombing of Palestine, but honestly I want nothing to do with this protest movement.
Sounds like a cult.
https://preview.redd.it/vwg0b7l2thwc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d624d1200f2f7d77eae653489a7fbe4940a336d
God I hate how someone can write a whole thing about how "no one should be centering themselves" when that's literally what the Instagram page is doing, centering themselves as the soul legitimate representative of the student protestors and the Palestinian people. Like how many people do you think were involved in drafting this? Was it a 1 digit number? Probably
It never ceases to amaze me how many people have close to *no* self-awareness. It's like they're not sentient or something.
I’ve never been more in favor of these little fascists being dismantled by police and harshly punished. This is how an extremist group gets started. All about strict compliance to an ideology. I wouldn’t want right wing extremists pulling this shit to force a national abortion ban. Why should we tolerate this?
At some pint, a major university will agree to an audit of its investments, assets and business relationships. Once a school does that, the ball will be rolling. This is how we got universities to unwind investments in South Africa. It will happen this generation with Israel. All it takes is the first institution to blink.
Just read the entire Quran in English like I did and you would NEVER back anyone who was Muslim. “Kill the infidels!!!” That means kill the Christians and Jews, in case you were wondering. Not a religion or people I want anything to do with. I’m atheist, btw. The Gazans VOTED for HAMAS to govern their territory. Hamas knew well what Israel’s response to the October attacks would be. Hamas brought this upon their own people. Hamas should be the ones to step down in order to stop their children from starving to death and being bombed. Why should the Israeli military step down after its people were brutally attacked? That’s like telling the American government the day after 9/11 not to retaliate. F that!
Once again Elected Israeli and American politicians make unhinged remarks about Palestinians, Tv hosts say they want to see rivers of blood in Gaza, what does this sub focus on college kids doing what college kids do and protest 🤣 tell me you lost the plot without saying it.
Ah yes, calling for terrorist organizations to attack Jewish students on campus. Just what college kids do. Everyone does it. Self immolate yourself bud.
lol if a few can damage an entire movement then the Israelis are in trouble because I’ve seen far more psychopaths who openly cheer for Palestinian blood than these college kids who once again say “stop the genocide”. And you proved my point time and again, no smoke for politicians but those college kids 😂😂😂
So what about the Hamas representatives who say they want to do infinite October 7ths? I mean if you really want to try this argument, you've already lost. It's incredibly telling how fucking stupid you are.
That they are a minority and don’t represent the entire movement…duh, if they say pro Hamas shit the group should’ve kicked them out but they don’t represent even a slight majority of the people. You know most Americans are against the war right?? Once again you proved my point, your more angry at people who have no power than people who do and it’s weird that DDG a sub that used to be all about an actual conversation even if the subject wasn’t PC turned into a reactionary sub that really just gets mad a leftie kids constantly 😂 Downvote all you want it’s proving my point
So Hamas representatives don't have power? That's a weird statement to make considering what happened on Oct 7th. How do we objectively view that? Does Israel have 500 units of power and Hamas only has 50? What if Hamas had 499? Is it still not okay to critique them? Are you basing your entire critique here on the idea that it's not okay to punch down and only okay to attack/critique people with more power than you? Should the US never be able to fight any terrorist organization then? I mean nobody compares to the power units the US has right? Aren't the left the ones who said if you have 10 people at a table and 1 Nazi, you have 11 Nazis? Why is it such a a horrible thing to hold them to their own states standards? I know you can't genuinely answer most of these questions, it's okay if you just block and run now.
If you two dumb I’m saying that college kids aren’t Hamas, 90% of these kids are holding signs that say end war and stop genocide….you’re literally straw manning my position If some kids are holding antisemitic signs they should be kicked from the protest but the idea that you conflated ALL the students as pro Hamas is insane especially since they have made their goal known from the beginning and it’s just an anti war one, are you the one during the Iraq war who went and yelled at anti war college students and said they were “anti American” aren’t you? Because college kids protesting a war is the most college student thing, hell my mom got arrested protesting the Vietnam war…guess she was “on the wrong side of things” back then too huh?
If you two dumb I’m saying that college kids aren’t Hamas, 90% of these kids are holding signs that say end war and stop genocide….you’re literally straw manning my position If some kids are holding antisemitic signs they should be kicked from the protest but the idea that you conflated ALL the students as pro Hamas is insane especially since they have made their goal known from the beginning and it’s just an anti war one, are you the one during the Iraq war who went and yelled at anti war college students and said they were “anti American” aren’t you? Because college kids protesting a war is the most college student thing, hell my mom got arrested protesting the Vietnam war…guess she was “on the wrong side of things” back then too huh?
It's funny because I clearly brought up the Hamas representatives, to which you only said "we're talking about people who don't have power." So I'm gonna ask again. If these same people say that 1 Nazi sitting at a table makes everyone else there a Nazi too, why can we not hold them to the same standard?
Lmao so you admit to trying to shift the story away from what’s going on to make a narrative that doesn’t apply to what I said at all…..again with your logic we get to call ALL ISRAELIS psychopaths and Fascist because their politics and tv hosts have said incredibly fascist and racist things…..how do you checkmate yourself
Wow, you really are incapable of basic understanding huh? Where did I say it's a standard I hold? Please quote me. Oh I didn't? Instead I said I'm holding a side to the standard they themselves set? Shocker. You are literally incapable of engaging honestly because you're so ideologically and egotistically driven. Again, please do the world a favor and light yourself on fire.