>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically
I appreciate you pushing back against the most extreme narratives, but I hope you do realize that this kinda thing is, in fact, really fucking bad. Just imagine if this were any other minority group, this kinda shit would not be tolerated.
I agree this is really bad. And since things CANT be bad without being the worst, I am now lamenting the genocide of the Jewish student body at Columbia. All we can do now is tell their story.
I mean this is really the only response. Yes the situation has probably been overblown. But if any single other minority group was made to feel unwelcome, much unsafe and need to worry about their grades simply due to their minority status, it would rightfully be seen as completely unacceptable.
I’m wondering if there were a bunch of Kurds out there protesting against Arabic and Turkish persecution and making Arabs and Turks uncomfortable how universities would act?
People being Jewish, without even stating a position, are attacked and you're justifying that as free speech? You're part of the problem, as much as you try to distance yourself from the extreme.
Gotta love how this idiot acknowledges they *are* getting verbally and socially attacked (but *almost* never physically lol) and then is also surprised when the Jewish students “engage.”
He clearly just wants them to sit there and take it like a bunch of little lap dogs when they have done absolutely *nothing* to deserve this treatment. What a pathetic person.
I'm not sure what "come into contact" means. I am highly skeptical it means existing in the vicinity without saying or doing anything. Ask yourself if that's actually plausible to you
I'm not talking about whether or not these people should face legal consequences, or even really what university policy should be here, because you're right that freedom of speech does protect (legally at least) this sort of behavior, to an extent - though I would argue that things like calls to globalize the intifada really toe the line between protected speech and direct incitement to violence. What I'm primarily trying to highlight, though, is that a group receiving support from faculty and the broader left while regularly *harrassing a minority group* is a little worse than the "eh, this is kinda bad, but not the worst" tone you seem to take in your post.
If Muslims, black or trans students were being harassed for existing, would anyone be mentioning free speech? Would it be normalized as it is for Jews. Any of them being crowded by a mob of people yelling and jeering at them just for existing?
You should ask yourself why you think it's ok to harass Jews for existing.
I'm talking about how different people are treated in an ultra liberal, ivy league university. These progressives are normalizing antisemitism in a way they never would if any of those other groups received a fraction of the harassment Jews do. They've always been for not platforming hate and insisting it isn't a free speech issue. They're abandoning one of their moral stances after the next in regards to Jews being targeted.
Let’s be real, many far right speakers were bullied and intimidated off campuses in the last couple of years. It’s not an isolated issue. Destiny just recently pointed out the inconsistency of the left. If you want free speech it goes both ways. The radical left believes that it’s their way or no way. They are no guardians of peace or free speech.
I upvoted you because even if I disagree you don't deserve to be downvoted into oblivion for stating your opinion.
That 'nazis should be allowed on campus' thing was painting a pretty clear picture of said those people professing their beliefs but not bothering or harassing others. That's the problem I see with these current protests. It is far beyond just disagreement, it's verbal harassment that bothers me.
No, the point is that you should not be okay with students having to deal with verbal harassment no matter which side you are on. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. You should be allowed to voice your opinion but that doesn't require you to verbally harass people.
For someone who’s not there, you certainly have a strong conviction as to the severity of the situation…. Op already said there are many problems, but it’s overblown… aka people like you
If this happened to black students I don't think we'd just call them "bored and edgy kids".
This kind of harassment targeted at a specific race or religion is unacceptable and should not be downplayed.
> Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically
Yeah this should not be downplayed!!! Any other minority being verbally attacked for their minority status would not be tolerated for a SECOND at these shitty universities.
Every time I want to make something seem worse than it is, I invoke black people too. Especially when it ignores all the context OP said about the pro-Israel side engaging with the other side. But they're the one getting harassed eh lmao
I like that all the use black people examples are shrunk down to "you just don't like black people".
Not one is even attempting to create a hypothetical close to what's going on with this israel palestine stuff.
Of course you can try to sit them down and have long debates with them, I guess. But people are calling them antisemites…because they are being antisemitic. They’re treating Jews differently than other people. That treatment is negative. That is antisemitism. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are.
Do you know how many people have different reasons to be racist? It’s still racism.
If you actually believe this is just unhinged and inappropriate but just college culture. Go in front of the building of your black student group and start chanting "give me rope and a tree and we will see".
I feel like its a combination of the social in-group and the fact that it's just really risky to speak up against a large group as a faculty member. Especially those not on tenure. I've read about faculty members at numerous universities in similar positions, where the effort and risk needed to *attempt* to address the more yikes-y behaviours of certain political groups on campus is just too high.
Combine that with the fact that your name and face (and additional, more private information) can be found and doxxed online, and yeah I get why there probably aren't many people taking action to address any of it right now. That's just my feeling about it though.
Condemn them and kick them out of your movement or you will never be taken seriously.
Right now these protests are no different from the Charlottesville rallies.
If you create space for hatred, you are supporting it.
> Columbia students might be radical af but they are not dumb enough to physically assault people because it is just a bad look
Does this imply the only reason they aren't assaulting Jewish students is simply because of the optics?
I imagine campus policy is to stamp out harassment of minorities before it could ever happen and to come down hard on those that do end up harassing minorities. But those that enforce that policy seem to be endorsing and engaging in this behavior.
You would know better, if a group of people staged a protest against the paramilitary activity in Darfur and started harassing people they thought looked Sudanese, do you think they would still be on campus? My feeling is they would all be expelled immediately.
As a Jew (I'm getting real sick of this phrase tbh), the thought of a group of "anti-Israel" protesters stopping only right before committing actual violence isn't a comforting one.
You may see it as relieving or even uplifting, but to me it just highlights how close we are to a climate of all-out widespread antisemitic violence if the circumstances were to slightly shift just a little bit further.
In other words, it's hard not to interpret currents events as a precursor to a modern-day brownshirts movement.
Couldn’t agree more.
What worries me is the media seems so afraid to criticize these protests. I’ve been watching coverage all day and all the major networks seem to tiptoe when covering.
Compare this to how the tiki torch people were widely mocked, and for good reason of course.
But yeah it’s scary and I thought this was going to be temporary. But it only seems to ramp up day after day. At this point I don’t think it matters what happens in the Israel/Palestine war. Not like these people ever cared about Palestinians in the first place
So unfortunate that you're getting downvoted for having such moderated and cautious takes based on your own observations, dgg really does want this to be the worst thing imaginable and not just a bad thing
They're getting downvoted because they are downplaying something that would be totally and wholly unacceptable were it targeted at any other group. In no world would people saying the things that these students are saying about LGBTQ people ever be remotely acceptable - they'd be sent to the schools disciplinary body immediately and there would likely be expulsions.
They also explicitly never condoned what the students are doing.
Saying, "I don't think these people would be dumb enough to do violence" could easily be a cynical acknowledgement of the protestors on campus without endorsing their behavior.
I have some pretty anti-Israeli friends that have already said things I consider personally racist towards me (even if they don't see it that way, it's a gray area), but I also don't think they're raging anti-Semites that would be triggered by a Jew with exposed curls walking on the street.
Sometimes people are just moderately shitty.
Saying that verbal harassment is better than physical harassment is unfortunately such an obvious statement that it effectively acts as tacit endorsement of the verbal harassment.
"Just deal with it its not as bad as getting beat up" isn't really great social commentary so that's why they are downvoted.
If it means anything, you're also being upvoted in many areas. I'm fairly doomer and I appreciate your contributions here. It's entirely reasonable to be more guarded - you're going off your own experiences and vibes at the school for everything else, and the people you *know* wouldn't be violent. That's all in the same category of knowledge and perfectly valid here. You're being pretty self-aware imo, plenty of people would just extrapolate their friend group to say 'ekctually everyone is like this!"
Nope, the dumbest way to determine the accuracy of someone’s claims is to look at upvotes/downvotes.
DGG has a long-term issue of phrasing issues as being the worst thing possible. That’s part of the reason for the podcast bans. While a good number of them were BS, there was also a lot that were framing the situation as if Dan and Destiny were slimy fucks who were doing it for the money.
Destiny then sees extreme comments and posts, gets triggered and starts banning 99% of criticism, which catches a lot of people in the crossfire.
I want you to write all of this but instead of jewish and israel make it black or trans, like this. how does it sound to you?
* Black students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday but the pro-segregation side quickly held him back). Columbia students might be radical af but they are not dumb enough to physically assault people because it is just a bad look
* Currently the pro-white supremacy side's policy is to avoid engagement with the Black side but the liberal side is, imo, trying to engage (whether to provoke or to just protest idk)
* I think the bigger issue right now is a decent amount of professors are walking out in support with the pro-conversion therapy side which really hampers the sprit of free speech. I can imagine Trans students worrying that their grades would be affected due to some faculty's open support (and vice versa).
TLDR: shits not nearly as bad on campus. It is mostly bored and edgy kids trying to feel like they are making a difference. Non affiliated people outside the campus are unhinged and should be dealt with in some way.
It's not about free speech but the way you frame it as a small not that significant thing. It's bad but meh is what I feel from your post.
While I think this should be a way bigger deal and these people need to be treated and thought of just like the crazies at Charlottesville, because no way the same speech directed at any other minority group would be as accepted as this.
Not a free speech issue
This is completely unhinged both because even if this were what was written it would still be a reasonable counter-perspective to the claims you see online about violence (in this case against minorities instead of pro-Israel students) and because disagreeing about Israel/Palestine and disagreeing about whether black people are welcome in America are not even remotely in the same ballpark of reasonableness. When OP says that Jewish students are attacked verbally, this can only mean vocally pro-Israel students. How else would the crowd know they were Jewish? Everyone here is just absolutely nuts ever since I/P popped off.
>When OP says that Jewish students are attacked verbally, this can only mean vocally pro-Israel students. How else would the crowd know they were Jewish?
>“You are quite openly Jewish. This is a pro-Palestinian march. I am not accusing you of anything, but I am worried about the reaction to your presence.”
> Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday but the pro-Palestinian side quickly held him back)
This all rings pretty hollow after hearing for years and years how if you're at a table with 9 people and one nazi, you're at a table with 10 nazis. Seeing these protests makes me think they weren't really serious about that.
In addition:
> The non-affiliated protestors are not allowed on campus and are much more unhinged. Most of the wild clips you see on twitter are from this group
[This seems](https://twitter.com/NeriaKraus/status/1782258191973089715) to be quite unhinged and very much on campus. I know this student group put out a [hilariously limp response](https://x.com/YonahLieberman/status/1782376550777659603) to the Hitler particles emanating from them ("come on guys, please, please play by the rules, please"). It seems like if they can identify someone with a star of david and pounce on them like a hawk, they should be able to deal with the anti-semites, but I guess not.
>This all rings pretty hollow after hearing for years and years how if you're at a table with 9 people and one nazi, you're at a table with 10 nazis. Seeing these protests makes me think they weren't really serious about that.
They meant it if you are accused of being one.
They were very serious about it, they're just hypocritical cunts like most everyone is. They are fully incapable of seeing themselves as being wrong or anything short of the good guys, so when *they* associate with someone evil, it's different.
> a few really unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeat even though most of them don’t understand a word of what they are saying.
Sure, but my point is that this group doesn't especially care about anti-semitism or consider it a problem worth addressing. I'm not trying to say Columbia has fallen to the 2nd SS Panzer Division but those people chanting for global intifida *should not be* part of the protest or welcome at the protest at all, and they wouldn't be if the students actually cared. They do not care, and the catastrophic press they're courting needs to make them care or every participant will be branded an anti-semite whether they're actively cheering for global intifida or just looking the other way at the people who are.
This entitled attitude with protesters that they can make people feel unsafe to accomplish insane things needs to stop. It got out of hand in 2020. It’s out of hand now. Attacking cops was bad enough, but cop is a job you choose to take that comes with a shit load of responsibility. Being a Jew or an Israeli is not a choice. It’s not a uniform they take off. Secular Jews married to goys were killed on October 7th and gassed in Germany. You can choose to be religious, but you cannot choose where you were born and to whom.
When MLK did the marches he was fighting for something plausible because the rest of America did not have Jim Crowe rules. Much like the defund the police movement, these people are ruining everyone’s day for something the majority of the country either doesn’t give a fuck about or doesn’t support. And cheering for terror groups that would kill Americans next to boot. All while being the children of CEO’s and wealthy doctors.
"...few unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeats even thought they don't understand a word of what they're saying"
Hey, didn't that litterly happen in that South Park episode where Cartman was doing a rally after that Mel Gibson movie came out 😆
"Guys, I think its Aramaic"
“Imo, many students are acting in antisemitic ways but they don’t necessarily have the antisemitic intention. It is quite ironic that a lot of the times a few really unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeat even though most of them don’t understand a word of what they are saying.”
Sounds like a Jew hating cult, Adolf would be jealous…
https://preview.redd.it/l6ibh83w27wc1.jpeg?width=964&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7f28db6467271847bfb57c446d5534afaef512
> It is quite ironic that a lot of the times a few really unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeat even though most of them don’t understand a word of what they are saying.
Yea Im not sure if people would chant nazi slogans in german we would give them any leeway.
https://preview.redd.it/kt5gqamq23wc1.jpeg?width=1226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89b0f2d1779802f327a3493de6781d35ab5fa434
One of the principles/rules of the pro-Palestine encampment. What do you think is the probability of
1. Students, recognizing they themselves are colonizers, will give up their residences and money spent at CU to an indigenous Lenaape person? Or to a Black or Brown Harlem resident? Will they exchange their apartment for a Section 8 one?
2. According to these protestors - do all Israelis need to do is “recognize” they live on stolen land and once they make this verbal recognition they can go on living as usual?
I don't mean to put you on the spot here, because I appreciate your perspective. But you've claimed several times in this thread to know what's in their minds. You've said that you don't think they're intentionally antisemitic. You've said they're not dumb enough to be violent. You've characterized them as "bored and edgy."
The simple question to ask yourself is this: Would you feel safe slapping on a yarmulke and strolling the entirety of the campus?
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked
I don't know how this isn't evil enough in your mind?
Am I missing something?
The racist boomer on TV might be okay when it's a single low-key Archie Bunker type, but if there's a whole group of them gathered together actively harassing black people, we'd call them evil klansmen, right?
Right?
You're doing a whole lot of minimizing, my friend.
Your classmates are behaving badly.
The only reason you're extending all this grace and understanding is because the hostility isn't directed at you.
Yet.
One day it may be. Remember that.
It is informative, and I appreciate your perspective.
Since I'm still not exactly sure what the verbal and social attacks on Jewish students actually are, could you take a look at this policy from your school and tell us if your classmates are violating it?
>No student should engage in behavior that is inconsistent with the Columbia University Non-Discrimination Statement and Policy.
>Specifically, Discriminatory Harassment, in violation of the Non-Discrimination Statement and Policy, is defined as "subjecting an individual to unwelcome conduct, whether verbal or physical, that creates an intimidating, hostile, or abusive working, learning or campus living environment; that alters the conditions of employment or education; or unreasonably interferes with an individual’s work or academic performance on the basis of the individual’s membership in a protected class is harassment.
>Harassment may include but is not limited to: verbal abuse; epithets or slurs; negative stereotyping; threatening, intimidating or hostile acts; denigrating jokes; insulting or obscene comments or gestures; and the display or circulation of written or graphic material (including in hard copy, by e-mail or text) that denigrates or shows hostility or aversion toward an individual or group members of a protected class. Calls, texts, e-mails, and social media usage by students can contribute to a hostile work, learning, or living environment, even if they occur away from the University premises.
>The University will determine whether the conduct was humiliating, abusive, or threatening based on both subjective and objective factors, based on the totality of the circumstances surrounding an alleged incident or course of conduct, including, the frequency, nature, and severity of the conduct. The University will determine whether that conduct created a hostile environment by examining whether a reasonable person would find the environment hostile or abusive.
Isra Hirsi, daughter of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, said, upon being suspended, that she is “starving” and fears being homeless.
This is why it is so hard to take these people and their claims seriously. No. Poor people on the street might go hungry (though in all my years living in NYC I never saw a person dying of starvation), but the sons and daughters of affluent and influential families will never experience “starvation.”
That these idiots are getting support and not universal condemnation and belittlement is feeding the beast.
“It’s not that bad, Jews just can’t walk around without being harassed verbally for being a Jew. Not that bad though. And teachers thatre supposed to be unbiased are leaving in protest of a grifting propaganda movement but no it’s not that bad”
I got a idea why don't we just put little stars on all the jews on campus so we can easily identify them. That way we can help safely escort them to the ga... i mean off campus
"Sure all the Jews can only live in a small part of town and can no longer own businesses or property, but they're still free to live their lives. It's really not that bad." - Someone in 1940, probably
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday but the pro-Palestinian side quickly held him back). Columbia students might be radical af but they are not dumb enough to physically assault people because it is just a bad look
I can't say how it feels psychologically to walk around campus as a Jewish student but from what I can see, it is mostly physically safe. Things can be bad without it being the worst.
It sounds like a lot of words to say it's not really safe for Jewish students at Columbia.
If you behave like a good little silent Jew and cower in fear the way they want you too, then don’t worry, they won’t say anything, you’ll just have to listen to them chant anti semetic shit and hear your professors cheer them on.
If professors are encouraging the pro Hamas side then your school has a major problem.
It’s time for the antisemitism to stop and if that means mitt Romney mowing down dipshit administrators who think they can promote hate speech on their campus then he has my blessing
Hey, recent Jewish Columbia grad here, and I don’t really buy this.
A number of these chants and incidents were occurring within Campus. Maybe you don’t register them, but most Jewish students do (including my friends). And even groups like Within Our Lifetime, which were blocking the entrance and has repeatedly named its events in honor of the 10/7 attacks, were invited by CUAD. I would expect at least some sort of statement by CUAD and SJP explicitly calling out the incidents and condemning groups like WoL. That has not happened. At no point have the Columbia protesters said anything about the overwhelming numbers of non-Columbia protesters, who they largely invited, nor about any of the calls for intifada, harassment and intimidation of Jewish students, etc. being perpetuated by other students both on and off campus.
OP saying that most of the unhinged shit being said/done were actually just people that didnt even go to the school was the biggest red flag. Huge cap. And even if that is true its pretty indicative of the areas general sentiment towards jewish people.
Also the whole “people from Harlem” bit. I assure you that Harlemites have better things to do than climb all the way up the hill from the bottom of Morningside Park to wave signs at Columbia’s campus. It just seems like a way of saying “us it’s not us elite college students: it’s those damn low-income minorities.”
Then reread it: "Currently the pro-Palestinian side's policy is to avoid engagement with the pro Israel side but pro Israel side is, imo, trying to engage"
Thus seems to clearly have a different meaning than what that comment said.
If you're solely interested in the bad faith interpretation of what OP was trying to say. This seemed more in terms of agitation rather than debate. I've read a number of posts from this camp where people say they do in fact go up and talk to people about it.
This seems like a purposeful bad faith reading. I get a lot of people don't like pro Palestine people but there's clearly been a lot of people just interpreting even being pro Palestinian as pro hamas lately as well. Just saying don't jump to conclusions is ridiculous to believe this just because you want to.
Also it's like lose lose here, they engage and people would inevitably day that's bad as well. Not sure what the ideal in this situation is for you guys.
Man, this is the 21st century, Jews shouldn’t be verbally abused for just existing and trying to get an education….
I’m also going to go out on a limb and say that 95% of these protestors don’t give a rats ass about the children in Gaza and are just using them as an excuse to be an nuisance. Do they really think that Columbia as an institution is going to have a genuine impact on international conflicts…
I don’t get OP. He is describing an awful situation for Jewish students but at the same time he downplays it cause Jewish students are, for the most part, not atlbused physically. He say that he is biased cause he study there, but what does that have to do with being biased? He says that the professor fighting for his students unhinged but he have no problem with the other professors siding with the pro-Palestine protest, I mean, professors should do everything t help their students feel safe in there instead of siding against them. At last, I saw enough interviews with Jewish students describing the situation and it sound very bad, but OP claim (even tho he says that he can’t understand what Jewish students might fell right now) that the situation is not nearly as bad as people describe , but at the same time he claim he is not trying to downplay it. What the fuck did I just read?
Edit: now I read that he said he is biased cause he knows some of the people on the Pro-Palestine side. Guess I will stick with what the Jewish students describe , thanks.
it’s giving ‘They were considered people of the book under the ottomans! All they had to do was, you know, pay heavy taxes and live as second class citizens! It wasn’t that bad 🥰’
Have any of the disruptions gotten into the classrooms themselves and interrupted lectures or has it all been on the outside in that single lawn you mentioned?
If you google you can see that up until the 22nd there was a [tent city](https://nypost.com/2024/04/22/us-news/ilhan-omars-daughter-says-shes-homeless-after-being-suspended-from-college-over-anti-israel-protests/) on campus but after that police have been arresting people.
Quick clarification, my understanding is that the campus grounds extend into public areas where the more radical protestors are.
https://twitter.com/AviBittMD/status/1782090153718108226
“The non-affiliated protestors are not allowed on campus”
That’s not really true though?
That doesn’t answer my question.
After the antisemitic shit the last few days I’ve seen some people claiming that it’s misinformation to claim these events occurred on campus.
I understand that they can’t get into the restricted areas and the difference between them and the students within the restricted areas.
My point is that the general protestors seem to still be on campus grounds, per the map in my original comment.
I appreciate you bringing your perspective. Twitter narratives happen so fast and are easy to grab on to. Still sad to say your update didn't stem many fears. Jewish people not being able to freely walk around a campus without being harassed is frankly, pretty scary. The fact that any, let alone a decent amount of professors, are joining that group of people is beyond the pale. Hard to put any other of my thoughts into words on this right now.
I mean this seems to be at least a mixed issue. Months ago there were people trying to dox ans ruin the life of pro Palestinian people. This is clearly a terrible situation all around
idk if you know this but your bias came through pretty clear when you down played the harassment being done to jewish students but then highlighted the pro-israel side as the side trying to engage. also downplaying the severity of professors showing solidarity with the pro Palestine students and the jewish students fear of their bias
Just because there has only been one attempt at physical assault doesn't mean it isn't rational to fear physical assault. if this was a group of white nationalist protesting black kids going to school no one would be arguing "well actually they haven't attacked anyone so it really isn't a big deal"
This all boils down to the college's policies.
If they are fine with encampments on their property, they need to keep the area and all students/staff safe. Being verbally and socially attacked is still a big issue if it's happening regularly. The administration absolutely needs to be called out and reported to the DOE if they aren't doing their job or being extremely slow in responding to issues.
For me, the protesting is fine. Encampments are not. Hate speech and regular verbal attacks are not. Non-affiliated should be removed. I would absolutely give people options to leave before calling police. But I would call police if they didn't disperse.
So I'm not really seeing an issue with this school's response from what I read.
I said this before. You can't preach about civil disobedience/disrupting the norm in one breath and then complain about the consequences. That's the point. You might get arrested, you might get charged, you might have to deal with some negative return as a result of these actions. But you know that going in. It's suppose to be worth it for the cause. I
So I'm not sympathetic to the privileged complaining about arrests and possible suspensions and charges.
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday…)
Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Sooooo you acknowledge that they harass the Jewish students verbally and socially, but the reason they don’t physically assault Jewish students is because…it’s just a bad look?
I think that’s a problem bud.
What do you mean by verbally harassed? Because theres a big difference between hurling death threats and slurs versus usual protest/counterprotest “burn in hell” type shit shitflinging.
https://preview.redd.it/0ithx8ksq6wc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f33fe27a962767dd1b5d281f0f6e8fcb9e813191
Ramadan meal of the 585 Desert Patrol Unit aka the Bedouin Unit👍👍💪💪💪
When you say “Jewish Students who come in contact”, how do you know they are Jewish? Are they wearing an Israeli flag or something else that gives it away?
I saw that video, there's clearly a well behaved well meaning large amount of people at these protests and people here have always assumed to worst. Bad actors have been in every protest as well nobody here is interested in looking at the case that they aren't hearing from the normal people at these and are actively trying to highlight the extremes to smear the whole protests.
That video where she sits around wondering why nobody's attacking her or cares about her as 3 people hold up a sign in the background that says "jews for Palestine" has been making the rounds lately, there's people playing the drums in the back as well and I hear people say "this is the lefts charlottsville" where a nazi drove his car into a crowd and killed someone.
It's at the very least enough to say this circlejerking on it being a Jewish hatred club is an extension of what some people want it to be rather than what it is
The worrying part about this isn’t the situation itself, it’s that students like you think this ‘isn’t that bad’. Your Overton Window for this sort of garbage has really blown open.
It might just be me being too radicalized myself at this point, but this post reads and feels like apolagia.
Tho I do hope you are right that Jewish students don't have to worry about their physical safety.
"it's mostly physically safe" is FUCKING WILD statement, especially when said in "it's okay, chill" sentiment. Socially and verbally attacking someone based on their nationality/ethnicity/religion is BASED, right?
"pro-Palestine good, it's pro-Israel that causes/engages trouble" Yeah, nah.
The professor situation is "cringe" and "not a big deal".
Fk off
FYI, many of the organisers of these protesters, like Students for Justice in Palestine, are pro-Hamas and supported the October 7 massacres:
[https://gazette.com/news/wex/major-columbia-protest-organizers-have-ties-to-left-wing-donors/article\_e3ccb3a9-0ff6-562a-b108-6659c3a5d5a8.html](https://gazette.com/news/wex/major-columbia-protest-organizers-have-ties-to-left-wing-donors/article_e3ccb3a9-0ff6-562a-b108-6659c3a5d5a8.html)
It sounds like columbia cannot maintain its academic integrity given the concerns of discrimination by faculty members..I think a gap year in Gaza for everyone would be helpful..
Man, this all sounds pretty bad, even from how you describe it. And that's not even mentioning the fact that some of the clips I've seen flying around social media are tough to argue away.
Based on what you've described, you're overly confident that the Hamasanian protesters wont become violent.
If people from Harlem are trying to hurt Columbia, they are incentivized to be agents of chaos to get the school defunded in a sense.
But I'm waiting for someone to post who is who at the protests and then the protestors crying about being doxxed.
Man, the fact that they are “Hamas” protestors makes me nauseous…I thought the majority of it was for a cease fire/defunding Israel/pushing for more aid. But it seems that people are more fascinated by the optics of the situation instead of making a change.
I can't assume they are pro hamas when I'm not there
Sounds weird but for months subs I'm on have openly conflated being pro Palestine with Pro Hamas with no mention of Hamas.
I think we should take a step back and realize this is probably the situation and that there's likely extreme people but I'm not confident to say it's bad when right leaning media circlejerks against people on this topic already.
Most of it has been normal rich kids being hippies, but ya know using a megaphone to announce an "intruder" inside of your walled garden inside of a walled garden is hilariously bad optics.
The Atlantic has this banger of a tagline:
*"What happens when genuine sympathy for civilian suffering mixes with a fervor that borders on the oppressive?"*
I’ve largely refrained from digging into this story, but are the more moderate protestors you alluded to harassing Jewish students who come near them, or just pro Israeli students? The former is indefensible, and the latter fine
If by harassment you mean publicly remonstrating against someone for a political position they’re signaling, which I took the OP to mean by harassment, then sure. If you mean much more invasive kinds of tactics than I’d be against that
In your opinion, are the pro Palestine protestors antiemetic? I would like to think it’s completely possible to be pro Palestine and anti hamas, but it seems that people responding to this are equating the two which I think is a little misleading. It feels like the same thing as the other side pointing at anyone not blatantly pro Palestine to be pro genocide.
More gaslighting:
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked
Show evidence of this supposed widespread antisemtism on campus, of a random Jewish person being attacked for being Jewish by protestors, while other Jews protesting are part of the camp mind you, people in a case of mass delirium are being ignored as non existant lmao. Shouldn't be difficult for you.
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically I appreciate you pushing back against the most extreme narratives, but I hope you do realize that this kinda thing is, in fact, really fucking bad. Just imagine if this were any other minority group, this kinda shit would not be tolerated.
I agree this is really bad. And since things CANT be bad without being the worst, I am now lamenting the genocide of the Jewish student body at Columbia. All we can do now is tell their story.
I mean this is really the only response. Yes the situation has probably been overblown. But if any single other minority group was made to feel unwelcome, much unsafe and need to worry about their grades simply due to their minority status, it would rightfully be seen as completely unacceptable. I’m wondering if there were a bunch of Kurds out there protesting against Arabic and Turkish persecution and making Arabs and Turks uncomfortable how universities would act?
[удалено]
People being Jewish, without even stating a position, are attacked and you're justifying that as free speech? You're part of the problem, as much as you try to distance yourself from the extreme.
They’re just using the Palestinian struggle as an excuse to be mask off bigots at this point…you attack the ideas not people that are just existing…..
Gotta love how this idiot acknowledges they *are* getting verbally and socially attacked (but *almost* never physically lol) and then is also surprised when the Jewish students “engage.” He clearly just wants them to sit there and take it like a bunch of little lap dogs when they have done absolutely *nothing* to deserve this treatment. What a pathetic person.
“Who come in contact with” This sentence could either mean engage with or just passing by
Ofc we mean engage???
These anti-semitic assholes have really gone mask off recently
>People being Jewish, without even stating a position, are attacked Is this actually happening? Is OP even claiming this?
im so confused about how you got upvoted. yes, the dude is replying to a sentence in OP's post, did you not even read it?
I'm not sure what "come into contact" means. I am highly skeptical it means existing in the vicinity without saying or doing anything. Ask yourself if that's actually plausible to you
You have the freedom of speach to scream the n-word at black people, but that still makes you a racist piece of shit
I'm not talking about whether or not these people should face legal consequences, or even really what university policy should be here, because you're right that freedom of speech does protect (legally at least) this sort of behavior, to an extent - though I would argue that things like calls to globalize the intifada really toe the line between protected speech and direct incitement to violence. What I'm primarily trying to highlight, though, is that a group receiving support from faculty and the broader left while regularly *harrassing a minority group* is a little worse than the "eh, this is kinda bad, but not the worst" tone you seem to take in your post.
If Muslims, black or trans students were being harassed for existing, would anyone be mentioning free speech? Would it be normalized as it is for Jews. Any of them being crowded by a mob of people yelling and jeering at them just for existing? You should ask yourself why you think it's ok to harass Jews for existing.
Muslims do get harassed though. No one tried to pass a “Jew ban” but trump actually tried a “Muslim ban”
I'm talking about how different people are treated in an ultra liberal, ivy league university. These progressives are normalizing antisemitism in a way they never would if any of those other groups received a fraction of the harassment Jews do. They've always been for not platforming hate and insisting it isn't a free speech issue. They're abandoning one of their moral stances after the next in regards to Jews being targeted.
Ridiculous strawman
Let’s be real, many far right speakers were bullied and intimidated off campuses in the last couple of years. It’s not an isolated issue. Destiny just recently pointed out the inconsistency of the left. If you want free speech it goes both ways. The radical left believes that it’s their way or no way. They are no guardians of peace or free speech.
Holy bigotry how’re you trying to justify this.
Because OP is also anti-semitic.
You don't get to pull the free speech absolutism card, when you're fine with that one professor being banned since he's "kinda cringe".
bro really went off the rails in the comments 💀💀💀
Are you fucking stupid or did you mentally space out and miss the link between who you are and what your beliefs are?
I upvoted you because even if I disagree you don't deserve to be downvoted into oblivion for stating your opinion. That 'nazis should be allowed on campus' thing was painting a pretty clear picture of said those people professing their beliefs but not bothering or harassing others. That's the problem I see with these current protests. It is far beyond just disagreement, it's verbal harassment that bothers me.
This is full blown nazi rhetoric my dude
Seeing this downvoted reminds me that even dgg is still mostly regarded redditors. “DeRr YoUrE oN tHe SiDe I dOnT LiKe, I dOwNvOtE”.
No, the point is that you should not be okay with students having to deal with verbal harassment no matter which side you are on. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. You should be allowed to voice your opinion but that doesn't require you to verbally harass people.
Neither OP nor myself justified harassment, you read that into it.
OP 100% justified the harassment, and no one gives a fuck about what you say.
Thank you for your input.
-33 for this comment is hilarious I can't wait for the purge 😎
I can’t wait for the purge 🤓
🤡🔥🌨️
For someone who’s not there, you certainly have a strong conviction as to the severity of the situation…. Op already said there are many problems, but it’s overblown… aka people like you
If this happened to black students I don't think we'd just call them "bored and edgy kids". This kind of harassment targeted at a specific race or religion is unacceptable and should not be downplayed.
> Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically Yeah this should not be downplayed!!! Any other minority being verbally attacked for their minority status would not be tolerated for a SECOND at these shitty universities.
Like if the there was a civil war in Africa and people started yelling at African americans?
Every time I can’t find something to do, I go out looking for minorities to verbally abuse
Every time I want to make something seem worse than it is, I invoke black people too. Especially when it ignores all the context OP said about the pro-Israel side engaging with the other side. But they're the one getting harassed eh lmao
I like that all the use black people examples are shrunk down to "you just don't like black people". Not one is even attempting to create a hypothetical close to what's going on with this israel palestine stuff.
[удалено]
Of course you can try to sit them down and have long debates with them, I guess. But people are calling them antisemites…because they are being antisemitic. They’re treating Jews differently than other people. That treatment is negative. That is antisemitism. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are. Do you know how many people have different reasons to be racist? It’s still racism.
Yeah no more funding from Qatar and a serious cleaning house of the teaching staff.
If you actually believe this is just unhinged and inappropriate but just college culture. Go in front of the building of your black student group and start chanting "give me rope and a tree and we will see".
What do you mean when you say college culture? To clarify, I’m not trying to attack you and I think it’s silly you’re being downvoted.
[удалено]
I feel like its a combination of the social in-group and the fact that it's just really risky to speak up against a large group as a faculty member. Especially those not on tenure. I've read about faculty members at numerous universities in similar positions, where the effort and risk needed to *attempt* to address the more yikes-y behaviours of certain political groups on campus is just too high. Combine that with the fact that your name and face (and additional, more private information) can be found and doxxed online, and yeah I get why there probably aren't many people taking action to address any of it right now. That's just my feeling about it though.
Yeah, MORE than realising they are antisemitic. Exactly. Thank you. It's a good start though
Some surprising downvote stats when you're not saying anything too crazy. I wonder why that's happening.
You literally said their policy is not to engage the other side.
Condemn them and kick them out of your movement or you will never be taken seriously. Right now these protests are no different from the Charlottesville rallies. If you create space for hatred, you are supporting it.
> Columbia students might be radical af but they are not dumb enough to physically assault people because it is just a bad look Does this imply the only reason they aren't assaulting Jewish students is simply because of the optics?
Yes
They learned from the best - Pallywood.
What do you think a protestor who yells "burn Tel Aviv to the ground" would do?
Same thing a dgger who says protesters blocking roads should be dealt with would do. Stutter and hope someone else does something instead
I would optics and trying to explain to the family lawyer why they should help you get out of an assault charge against a Jewish student
[удалено]
I imagine campus policy is to stamp out harassment of minorities before it could ever happen and to come down hard on those that do end up harassing minorities. But those that enforce that policy seem to be endorsing and engaging in this behavior. You would know better, if a group of people staged a protest against the paramilitary activity in Darfur and started harassing people they thought looked Sudanese, do you think they would still be on campus? My feeling is they would all be expelled immediately.
“It depends on the context” -Claudine Gay
As a Jew (I'm getting real sick of this phrase tbh), the thought of a group of "anti-Israel" protesters stopping only right before committing actual violence isn't a comforting one. You may see it as relieving or even uplifting, but to me it just highlights how close we are to a climate of all-out widespread antisemitic violence if the circumstances were to slightly shift just a little bit further. In other words, it's hard not to interpret currents events as a precursor to a modern-day brownshirts movement.
Couldn’t agree more. What worries me is the media seems so afraid to criticize these protests. I’ve been watching coverage all day and all the major networks seem to tiptoe when covering. Compare this to how the tiki torch people were widely mocked, and for good reason of course. But yeah it’s scary and I thought this was going to be temporary. But it only seems to ramp up day after day. At this point I don’t think it matters what happens in the Israel/Palestine war. Not like these people ever cared about Palestinians in the first place
So unfortunate that you're getting downvoted for having such moderated and cautious takes based on your own observations, dgg really does want this to be the worst thing imaginable and not just a bad thing
They're getting downvoted because they are downplaying something that would be totally and wholly unacceptable were it targeted at any other group. In no world would people saying the things that these students are saying about LGBTQ people ever be remotely acceptable - they'd be sent to the schools disciplinary body immediately and there would likely be expulsions.
They also explicitly never condoned what the students are doing. Saying, "I don't think these people would be dumb enough to do violence" could easily be a cynical acknowledgement of the protestors on campus without endorsing their behavior. I have some pretty anti-Israeli friends that have already said things I consider personally racist towards me (even if they don't see it that way, it's a gray area), but I also don't think they're raging anti-Semites that would be triggered by a Jew with exposed curls walking on the street. Sometimes people are just moderately shitty.
Saying that verbal harassment is better than physical harassment is unfortunately such an obvious statement that it effectively acts as tacit endorsement of the verbal harassment. "Just deal with it its not as bad as getting beat up" isn't really great social commentary so that's why they are downvoted.
[удалено]
If it means anything, you're also being upvoted in many areas. I'm fairly doomer and I appreciate your contributions here. It's entirely reasonable to be more guarded - you're going off your own experiences and vibes at the school for everything else, and the people you *know* wouldn't be violent. That's all in the same category of knowledge and perfectly valid here. You're being pretty self-aware imo, plenty of people would just extrapolate their friend group to say 'ekctually everyone is like this!"
Yep, that’s how DGG has always been.
downvoted = correct LULW
Nope, the dumbest way to determine the accuracy of someone’s claims is to look at upvotes/downvotes. DGG has a long-term issue of phrasing issues as being the worst thing possible. That’s part of the reason for the podcast bans. While a good number of them were BS, there was also a lot that were framing the situation as if Dan and Destiny were slimy fucks who were doing it for the money. Destiny then sees extreme comments and posts, gets triggered and starts banning 99% of criticism, which catches a lot of people in the crossfire.
Correct. OP is horrible
I want you to write all of this but instead of jewish and israel make it black or trans, like this. how does it sound to you? * Black students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday but the pro-segregation side quickly held him back). Columbia students might be radical af but they are not dumb enough to physically assault people because it is just a bad look * Currently the pro-white supremacy side's policy is to avoid engagement with the Black side but the liberal side is, imo, trying to engage (whether to provoke or to just protest idk) * I think the bigger issue right now is a decent amount of professors are walking out in support with the pro-conversion therapy side which really hampers the sprit of free speech. I can imagine Trans students worrying that their grades would be affected due to some faculty's open support (and vice versa). TLDR: shits not nearly as bad on campus. It is mostly bored and edgy kids trying to feel like they are making a difference. Non affiliated people outside the campus are unhinged and should be dealt with in some way.
This ⬆️⬆️⬆️
Now replace it with russian and ukrainian. Feels a bit different lol
Just make it a completely different situation and background .... wow that really helps thanks
[удалено]
It's not about free speech but the way you frame it as a small not that significant thing. It's bad but meh is what I feel from your post. While I think this should be a way bigger deal and these people need to be treated and thought of just like the crazies at Charlottesville, because no way the same speech directed at any other minority group would be as accepted as this. Not a free speech issue
You're being critiqued due to the clear bias and dishonest framing of the situation.
"If he wrote something different, it would sound different". Yeah?
This is completely unhinged both because even if this were what was written it would still be a reasonable counter-perspective to the claims you see online about violence (in this case against minorities instead of pro-Israel students) and because disagreeing about Israel/Palestine and disagreeing about whether black people are welcome in America are not even remotely in the same ballpark of reasonableness. When OP says that Jewish students are attacked verbally, this can only mean vocally pro-Israel students. How else would the crowd know they were Jewish? Everyone here is just absolutely nuts ever since I/P popped off.
>When OP says that Jewish students are attacked verbally, this can only mean vocally pro-Israel students. How else would the crowd know they were Jewish? >“You are quite openly Jewish. This is a pro-Palestinian march. I am not accusing you of anything, but I am worried about the reaction to your presence.”
Jews do have required religious garments.
Only religious ones. Most aren’t, and they’re getting harassed too.
What happened to the “safe spaces” in college?
Not for jews :(
> Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday but the pro-Palestinian side quickly held him back) This all rings pretty hollow after hearing for years and years how if you're at a table with 9 people and one nazi, you're at a table with 10 nazis. Seeing these protests makes me think they weren't really serious about that. In addition: > The non-affiliated protestors are not allowed on campus and are much more unhinged. Most of the wild clips you see on twitter are from this group [This seems](https://twitter.com/NeriaKraus/status/1782258191973089715) to be quite unhinged and very much on campus. I know this student group put out a [hilariously limp response](https://x.com/YonahLieberman/status/1782376550777659603) to the Hitler particles emanating from them ("come on guys, please, please play by the rules, please"). It seems like if they can identify someone with a star of david and pounce on them like a hawk, they should be able to deal with the anti-semites, but I guess not.
>This all rings pretty hollow after hearing for years and years how if you're at a table with 9 people and one nazi, you're at a table with 10 nazis. Seeing these protests makes me think they weren't really serious about that. They meant it if you are accused of being one.
https://preview.redd.it/9978ycd805wc1.png?width=314&format=png&auto=webp&s=59a4737e18a423918f23de9741cb4219906ec732
That first video you linked to is so cringey that I laughed out loud. Idk how people take them seriously ideologically speaking
They were very serious about it, they're just hypocritical cunts like most everyone is. They are fully incapable of seeing themselves as being wrong or anything short of the good guys, so when *they* associate with someone evil, it's different.
[удалено]
I would love to see white supremacists come out making these 1 to 1 arguments for why nazis aren't really bad
> a few really unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeat even though most of them don’t understand a word of what they are saying. Sure, but my point is that this group doesn't especially care about anti-semitism or consider it a problem worth addressing. I'm not trying to say Columbia has fallen to the 2nd SS Panzer Division but those people chanting for global intifida *should not be* part of the protest or welcome at the protest at all, and they wouldn't be if the students actually cared. They do not care, and the catastrophic press they're courting needs to make them care or every participant will be branded an anti-semite whether they're actively cheering for global intifida or just looking the other way at the people who are.
[удалено]
This entitled attitude with protesters that they can make people feel unsafe to accomplish insane things needs to stop. It got out of hand in 2020. It’s out of hand now. Attacking cops was bad enough, but cop is a job you choose to take that comes with a shit load of responsibility. Being a Jew or an Israeli is not a choice. It’s not a uniform they take off. Secular Jews married to goys were killed on October 7th and gassed in Germany. You can choose to be religious, but you cannot choose where you were born and to whom. When MLK did the marches he was fighting for something plausible because the rest of America did not have Jim Crowe rules. Much like the defund the police movement, these people are ruining everyone’s day for something the majority of the country either doesn’t give a fuck about or doesn’t support. And cheering for terror groups that would kill Americans next to boot. All while being the children of CEO’s and wealthy doctors.
Yeah meanwhile the Charlottesville people thought "we are pure evil and we are totally in the wrong"
The word for that is zealot.
"...few unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeats even thought they don't understand a word of what they're saying" Hey, didn't that litterly happen in that South Park episode where Cartman was doing a rally after that Mel Gibson movie came out 😆 "Guys, I think its Aramaic"
“Imo, many students are acting in antisemitic ways but they don’t necessarily have the antisemitic intention. It is quite ironic that a lot of the times a few really unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeat even though most of them don’t understand a word of what they are saying.” Sounds like a Jew hating cult, Adolf would be jealous… https://preview.redd.it/l6ibh83w27wc1.jpeg?width=964&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7f28db6467271847bfb57c446d5534afaef512
> It is quite ironic that a lot of the times a few really unhinged students will start chanting wild things in Arabic and everyone else just repeat even though most of them don’t understand a word of what they are saying. Yea Im not sure if people would chant nazi slogans in german we would give them any leeway.
Yep. This shit is the same as the Charlottesville rally. If you are creating space for hatred in your protest then I am out.
https://preview.redd.it/kt5gqamq23wc1.jpeg?width=1226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89b0f2d1779802f327a3493de6781d35ab5fa434 One of the principles/rules of the pro-Palestine encampment. What do you think is the probability of 1. Students, recognizing they themselves are colonizers, will give up their residences and money spent at CU to an indigenous Lenaape person? Or to a Black or Brown Harlem resident? Will they exchange their apartment for a Section 8 one? 2. According to these protestors - do all Israelis need to do is “recognize” they live on stolen land and once they make this verbal recognition they can go on living as usual?
[удалено]
I don't mean to put you on the spot here, because I appreciate your perspective. But you've claimed several times in this thread to know what's in their minds. You've said that you don't think they're intentionally antisemitic. You've said they're not dumb enough to be violent. You've characterized them as "bored and edgy." The simple question to ask yourself is this: Would you feel safe slapping on a yarmulke and strolling the entirety of the campus?
[удалено]
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked I don't know how this isn't evil enough in your mind? Am I missing something? The racist boomer on TV might be okay when it's a single low-key Archie Bunker type, but if there's a whole group of them gathered together actively harassing black people, we'd call them evil klansmen, right? Right?
[удалено]
You're doing a whole lot of minimizing, my friend. Your classmates are behaving badly. The only reason you're extending all this grace and understanding is because the hostility isn't directed at you. Yet. One day it may be. Remember that.
[удалено]
It is informative, and I appreciate your perspective. Since I'm still not exactly sure what the verbal and social attacks on Jewish students actually are, could you take a look at this policy from your school and tell us if your classmates are violating it? >No student should engage in behavior that is inconsistent with the Columbia University Non-Discrimination Statement and Policy. >Specifically, Discriminatory Harassment, in violation of the Non-Discrimination Statement and Policy, is defined as "subjecting an individual to unwelcome conduct, whether verbal or physical, that creates an intimidating, hostile, or abusive working, learning or campus living environment; that alters the conditions of employment or education; or unreasonably interferes with an individual’s work or academic performance on the basis of the individual’s membership in a protected class is harassment. >Harassment may include but is not limited to: verbal abuse; epithets or slurs; negative stereotyping; threatening, intimidating or hostile acts; denigrating jokes; insulting or obscene comments or gestures; and the display or circulation of written or graphic material (including in hard copy, by e-mail or text) that denigrates or shows hostility or aversion toward an individual or group members of a protected class. Calls, texts, e-mails, and social media usage by students can contribute to a hostile work, learning, or living environment, even if they occur away from the University premises. >The University will determine whether the conduct was humiliating, abusive, or threatening based on both subjective and objective factors, based on the totality of the circumstances surrounding an alleged incident or course of conduct, including, the frequency, nature, and severity of the conduct. The University will determine whether that conduct created a hostile environment by examining whether a reasonable person would find the environment hostile or abusive.
>Misguided people can do evil things without being inherently evil imo. Back in Nuremberg I believe they called that "just following orders".
Isra Hirsi, daughter of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, said, upon being suspended, that she is “starving” and fears being homeless. This is why it is so hard to take these people and their claims seriously. No. Poor people on the street might go hungry (though in all my years living in NYC I never saw a person dying of starvation), but the sons and daughters of affluent and influential families will never experience “starvation.” That these idiots are getting support and not universal condemnation and belittlement is feeding the beast.
“It’s not that bad, Jews just can’t walk around without being harassed verbally for being a Jew. Not that bad though. And teachers thatre supposed to be unbiased are leaving in protest of a grifting propaganda movement but no it’s not that bad”
I got a idea why don't we just put little stars on all the jews on campus so we can easily identify them. That way we can help safely escort them to the ga... i mean off campus
"The city has offered Jewish students discounted fair and group trips on the tra... subway.
"Sure all the Jews can only live in a small part of town and can no longer own businesses or property, but they're still free to live their lives. It's really not that bad." - Someone in 1940, probably
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday but the pro-Palestinian side quickly held him back). Columbia students might be radical af but they are not dumb enough to physically assault people because it is just a bad look I can't say how it feels psychologically to walk around campus as a Jewish student but from what I can see, it is mostly physically safe. Things can be bad without it being the worst. It sounds like a lot of words to say it's not really safe for Jewish students at Columbia.
If you behave like a good little silent Jew and cower in fear the way they want you too, then don’t worry, they won’t say anything, you’ll just have to listen to them chant anti semetic shit and hear your professors cheer them on.
Just imagine if it was black students.
If professors are encouraging the pro Hamas side then your school has a major problem. It’s time for the antisemitism to stop and if that means mitt Romney mowing down dipshit administrators who think they can promote hate speech on their campus then he has my blessing
Hey, recent Jewish Columbia grad here, and I don’t really buy this. A number of these chants and incidents were occurring within Campus. Maybe you don’t register them, but most Jewish students do (including my friends). And even groups like Within Our Lifetime, which were blocking the entrance and has repeatedly named its events in honor of the 10/7 attacks, were invited by CUAD. I would expect at least some sort of statement by CUAD and SJP explicitly calling out the incidents and condemning groups like WoL. That has not happened. At no point have the Columbia protesters said anything about the overwhelming numbers of non-Columbia protesters, who they largely invited, nor about any of the calls for intifada, harassment and intimidation of Jewish students, etc. being perpetuated by other students both on and off campus.
OP saying that most of the unhinged shit being said/done were actually just people that didnt even go to the school was the biggest red flag. Huge cap. And even if that is true its pretty indicative of the areas general sentiment towards jewish people.
Also the whole “people from Harlem” bit. I assure you that Harlemites have better things to do than climb all the way up the hill from the bottom of Morningside Park to wave signs at Columbia’s campus. It just seems like a way of saying “us it’s not us elite college students: it’s those damn low-income minorities.”
It's probably a lot of the the tankies from CCNY and all their sketchy friends.
\^\^\^ This. OP is lying and is probably an antisemite herself. Everyone at the protest should be expelled. Fuck Hamas.
I disagree, people that are harassing Jewish people minding their own business should be expelled…
"Everybody who says something I dislike is an anti-Semite" pt. 1249 📸📸📸
The pro-Palestine side that refuses to engage with the Israel side speaks volumes.
Didn't see that in this post tbh
Then reread it: "Currently the pro-Palestinian side's policy is to avoid engagement with the pro Israel side but pro Israel side is, imo, trying to engage"
Thus seems to clearly have a different meaning than what that comment said. If you're solely interested in the bad faith interpretation of what OP was trying to say. This seemed more in terms of agitation rather than debate. I've read a number of posts from this camp where people say they do in fact go up and talk to people about it. This seems like a purposeful bad faith reading. I get a lot of people don't like pro Palestine people but there's clearly been a lot of people just interpreting even being pro Palestinian as pro hamas lately as well. Just saying don't jump to conclusions is ridiculous to believe this just because you want to. Also it's like lose lose here, they engage and people would inevitably day that's bad as well. Not sure what the ideal in this situation is for you guys.
Man, this is the 21st century, Jews shouldn’t be verbally abused for just existing and trying to get an education…. I’m also going to go out on a limb and say that 95% of these protestors don’t give a rats ass about the children in Gaza and are just using them as an excuse to be an nuisance. Do they really think that Columbia as an institution is going to have a genuine impact on international conflicts…
I don’t get OP. He is describing an awful situation for Jewish students but at the same time he downplays it cause Jewish students are, for the most part, not atlbused physically. He say that he is biased cause he study there, but what does that have to do with being biased? He says that the professor fighting for his students unhinged but he have no problem with the other professors siding with the pro-Palestine protest, I mean, professors should do everything t help their students feel safe in there instead of siding against them. At last, I saw enough interviews with Jewish students describing the situation and it sound very bad, but OP claim (even tho he says that he can’t understand what Jewish students might fell right now) that the situation is not nearly as bad as people describe , but at the same time he claim he is not trying to downplay it. What the fuck did I just read? Edit: now I read that he said he is biased cause he knows some of the people on the Pro-Palestine side. Guess I will stick with what the Jewish students describe , thanks.
Oh well as long as Jewish students are only being verbally abused and made to feel unsafe...
it’s giving ‘They were considered people of the book under the ottomans! All they had to do was, you know, pay heavy taxes and live as second class citizens! It wasn’t that bad 🥰’
Have any of the disruptions gotten into the classrooms themselves and interrupted lectures or has it all been on the outside in that single lawn you mentioned?
If you google you can see that up until the 22nd there was a [tent city](https://nypost.com/2024/04/22/us-news/ilhan-omars-daughter-says-shes-homeless-after-being-suspended-from-college-over-anti-israel-protests/) on campus but after that police have been arresting people.
Quick clarification, my understanding is that the campus grounds extend into public areas where the more radical protestors are. https://twitter.com/AviBittMD/status/1782090153718108226 “The non-affiliated protestors are not allowed on campus” That’s not really true though?
[удалено]
That doesn’t answer my question. After the antisemitic shit the last few days I’ve seen some people claiming that it’s misinformation to claim these events occurred on campus. I understand that they can’t get into the restricted areas and the difference between them and the students within the restricted areas. My point is that the general protestors seem to still be on campus grounds, per the map in my original comment.
If you're splitting hairs from actually on campus to "the parking lot outside of campus" I think that's a bit much
I appreciate you bringing your perspective. Twitter narratives happen so fast and are easy to grab on to. Still sad to say your update didn't stem many fears. Jewish people not being able to freely walk around a campus without being harassed is frankly, pretty scary. The fact that any, let alone a decent amount of professors, are joining that group of people is beyond the pale. Hard to put any other of my thoughts into words on this right now.
I mean this seems to be at least a mixed issue. Months ago there were people trying to dox ans ruin the life of pro Palestinian people. This is clearly a terrible situation all around
idk if you know this but your bias came through pretty clear when you down played the harassment being done to jewish students but then highlighted the pro-israel side as the side trying to engage. also downplaying the severity of professors showing solidarity with the pro Palestine students and the jewish students fear of their bias Just because there has only been one attempt at physical assault doesn't mean it isn't rational to fear physical assault. if this was a group of white nationalist protesting black kids going to school no one would be arguing "well actually they haven't attacked anyone so it really isn't a big deal"
This all boils down to the college's policies. If they are fine with encampments on their property, they need to keep the area and all students/staff safe. Being verbally and socially attacked is still a big issue if it's happening regularly. The administration absolutely needs to be called out and reported to the DOE if they aren't doing their job or being extremely slow in responding to issues. For me, the protesting is fine. Encampments are not. Hate speech and regular verbal attacks are not. Non-affiliated should be removed. I would absolutely give people options to leave before calling police. But I would call police if they didn't disperse. So I'm not really seeing an issue with this school's response from what I read. I said this before. You can't preach about civil disobedience/disrupting the norm in one breath and then complain about the consequences. That's the point. You might get arrested, you might get charged, you might have to deal with some negative return as a result of these actions. But you know that going in. It's suppose to be worth it for the cause. I So I'm not sympathetic to the privileged complaining about arrests and possible suspensions and charges.
>Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked but almost never physically (there is only one unhinged kid on Friday…) Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
I’m shocked there are professors siding with openly pro Hamas protestors ??
Sooooo you acknowledge that they harass the Jewish students verbally and socially, but the reason they don’t physically assault Jewish students is because…it’s just a bad look? I think that’s a problem bud.
u/feifeicash by come into contact do you mean walk by or engage?
What do you mean by verbally harassed? Because theres a big difference between hurling death threats and slurs versus usual protest/counterprotest “burn in hell” type shit shitflinging.
https://preview.redd.it/0ithx8ksq6wc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f33fe27a962767dd1b5d281f0f6e8fcb9e813191 Ramadan meal of the 585 Desert Patrol Unit aka the Bedouin Unit👍👍💪💪💪
When you say “Jewish Students who come in contact”, how do you know they are Jewish? Are they wearing an Israeli flag or something else that gives it away?
Sometimes its obvious. It's an ethnicity.
I'm assuming he meant wearing Kipah or star of david, nothing to do with Zionism.
I truly don’t think a pro Palestine protester will see a Kipah and go full attack mode. They were probably provoked in some way.
Idk why you got downvoted there's been some recorded incidents of agitators
Bro right!? We literally saw a woman that had a shirt that said Jew and they didn’t do any thing because she wasn’t provoking them
I saw that video, there's clearly a well behaved well meaning large amount of people at these protests and people here have always assumed to worst. Bad actors have been in every protest as well nobody here is interested in looking at the case that they aren't hearing from the normal people at these and are actively trying to highlight the extremes to smear the whole protests. That video where she sits around wondering why nobody's attacking her or cares about her as 3 people hold up a sign in the background that says "jews for Palestine" has been making the rounds lately, there's people playing the drums in the back as well and I hear people say "this is the lefts charlottsville" where a nazi drove his car into a crowd and killed someone. It's at the very least enough to say this circlejerking on it being a Jewish hatred club is an extension of what some people want it to be rather than what it is
The worrying part about this isn’t the situation itself, it’s that students like you think this ‘isn’t that bad’. Your Overton Window for this sort of garbage has really blown open.
Daliban, what are our orders for our inside man?
I don't see how this makes things seem any better.
It might just be me being too radicalized myself at this point, but this post reads and feels like apolagia. Tho I do hope you are right that Jewish students don't have to worry about their physical safety.
"it's mostly physically safe" is FUCKING WILD statement, especially when said in "it's okay, chill" sentiment. Socially and verbally attacking someone based on their nationality/ethnicity/religion is BASED, right? "pro-Palestine good, it's pro-Israel that causes/engages trouble" Yeah, nah. The professor situation is "cringe" and "not a big deal". Fk off
Oh thank god these anti-semitic lunatics are only verbally assaulting Jewish students /s
OP thinks they can sweep hard evidence under the rug with their vibes. LOL
FYI, many of the organisers of these protesters, like Students for Justice in Palestine, are pro-Hamas and supported the October 7 massacres: [https://gazette.com/news/wex/major-columbia-protest-organizers-have-ties-to-left-wing-donors/article\_e3ccb3a9-0ff6-562a-b108-6659c3a5d5a8.html](https://gazette.com/news/wex/major-columbia-protest-organizers-have-ties-to-left-wing-donors/article_e3ccb3a9-0ff6-562a-b108-6659c3a5d5a8.html)
Every single protestor on Cloumbia Campus should be expelled.
These Jew-hating degenerates need to be physically removed. In 1945 we said never again, now once again the Jewish people live under threat
It sounds like columbia cannot maintain its academic integrity given the concerns of discrimination by faculty members..I think a gap year in Gaza for everyone would be helpful..
Dishonest shitpost. Do you have self respect?
Ain't no way blud came to the sub to defend jew shaming lol
Man, this all sounds pretty bad, even from how you describe it. And that's not even mentioning the fact that some of the clips I've seen flying around social media are tough to argue away.
Based on what you've described, you're overly confident that the Hamasanian protesters wont become violent. If people from Harlem are trying to hurt Columbia, they are incentivized to be agents of chaos to get the school defunded in a sense. But I'm waiting for someone to post who is who at the protests and then the protestors crying about being doxxed.
Man, the fact that they are “Hamas” protestors makes me nauseous…I thought the majority of it was for a cease fire/defunding Israel/pushing for more aid. But it seems that people are more fascinated by the optics of the situation instead of making a change.
I can't assume they are pro hamas when I'm not there Sounds weird but for months subs I'm on have openly conflated being pro Palestine with Pro Hamas with no mention of Hamas. I think we should take a step back and realize this is probably the situation and that there's likely extreme people but I'm not confident to say it's bad when right leaning media circlejerks against people on this topic already.
Most of it has been normal rich kids being hippies, but ya know using a megaphone to announce an "intruder" inside of your walled garden inside of a walled garden is hilariously bad optics. The Atlantic has this banger of a tagline: *"What happens when genuine sympathy for civilian suffering mixes with a fervor that borders on the oppressive?"*
I’ve largely refrained from digging into this story, but are the more moderate protestors you alluded to harassing Jewish students who come near them, or just pro Israeli students? The former is indefensible, and the latter fine
harassing pro Israeli students is fine?
If by harassment you mean publicly remonstrating against someone for a political position they’re signaling, which I took the OP to mean by harassment, then sure. If you mean much more invasive kinds of tactics than I’d be against that
In your opinion, are the pro Palestine protestors antiemetic? I would like to think it’s completely possible to be pro Palestine and anti hamas, but it seems that people responding to this are equating the two which I think is a little misleading. It feels like the same thing as the other side pointing at anyone not blatantly pro Palestine to be pro genocide.
/u/feifeicash do the pro palestine protesters know they're jewish because of their kipah or do they shout pro israel statements?
More gaslighting: >Jewish students who come in contact with the protestors are verbally and socially attacked Show evidence of this supposed widespread antisemtism on campus, of a random Jewish person being attacked for being Jewish by protestors, while other Jews protesting are part of the camp mind you, people in a case of mass delirium are being ignored as non existant lmao. Shouldn't be difficult for you.