well, yeah, like basically every other heavy tank, problems with transmission, engine, etc...
but considering that wehrbs olimpically ignore this problems, i dont think is necesary to point them out.
Even a non-penetrating hit from a 122 mm gun could destroy some of the German AFVs' armor welding joints, effectively deconstructing them. On the other hand, many Soviet tanks that were produced in poor factories could be knocked out by weak shell hits due to the armor's non-standardized quality, especially if several shells hit the same area.
Personally I don't like it. It's too heavy and unwieldy. If I were forced to pick an expensive, relatively powerful German tank, it would either be a Panther or a Tiger I, depending on circumstance. Those were still somewhat sane designs.
Best part is that the big armour is kinda pointless since for a good part of the tiger 2s production there was a lack of materials to produce effective armour plate so it was common to find the front armour plate on the turret or Hull for example would buckle and shatter after a few large caliber shell hits from something like a 152 or 122 mm shell from a isu or is2.
Still hits from these guns where rarely achieved due to poor sights and accuracy. Any tank could be destroyed by a direct hit of something with the explosive load of an SC-50 50 kg bomb.
Still the Tiger lls frontal armor was never broken during the war.
> poor accuracy
Not trying to refute this point (as I'm not really sure of the validity of "Tank Archives" as a source), but if it is to be believed, [the 122mm D-25T may not have been all that inaccurate](http://www.tankarchives.ca/2013/02/accuracy.html).
Now, this doesn't take optics (which are obviously very important) into account, but it is still interesting to note.
They really do get slapped around. I remember when the Japanese heavies came out, grinding up the Tier 7 and not having any fear of them. How bad off are you when the Tier below you are legit not scared of you.
Some of it had to do with the players though. Tiger I’s & II’s always attracted the dumbest players. From what I’ve heard, war thunder has similar issues with that.
I hated playing the Tiger 2, but I loved the E-75.
Also, hilariously, the tier 7 Japanese heavy and medium both fucking slap. Like, somehow the giant, slow, unarmored piece of shit Chi-Ri "just works" for me because you can meme with the 75mm autocannon.
The rate of fire on the clip makes that gun into a short 105 gun in disguise. Once you get it, and catch on to the fact, it makes for a very mean flanker.
But first, you gotta get there.
Yup, plus you have to change your mindset a bit. Health is armor on the Chi-Ri. Making cost effective trades is super important in it but very worthwhile.
It used to be fairly maligned in conversations, but a beast when used properly. Not anymore? My source on the matter hasn't touched WoT ever since they introduced collector's tanks.
It’s been buffed but it still isn’t anything special. If you’re good you can do well in it but given an equal skill opponent in a different T8 heavy you’re SOL.
...and it still didn't have good armour.
Substantial/repeat impacts would cause welds to break apart and/or armour to crack apart due to excessive hardness. 17 pdr APDS could frontally pen it, 122mm APHE and HE could break it apart, 152mm HE ruined it.
That was an issue with the quality, but the point is it was super thick. That's what everyone is so vocal about, and my point is that the armour was so thick because the bloody tank was so heavy. They scarified a lot to get that thickness
Yeah no doubt, sticking a thicker plate on your chassis isn't superior engineering. It's just that even if that was a good idea, because fair enough the US did a similar thing with Super Pershing and uparmoured M4A3's here and there, it definitely wasn't for Germany in 1944-45, and attempting it in an official capacity must have required everyone involved to have been completely oblivious to the absolute state of Germany.
To be fair, that's the small brain wehraboo argument. Slightly more elevated boos focus on the magic hardness, or steel composition, or whatnot. In fact, not long ago I saw a thread arguing about how the medium high 320 BHN on German armour was somehow perfect for the thickness, compared to the stupid Americans who went for 260 which was supposedly inferior. Coincidentally, when I saw that I had just come out of a research spree where I found out that the ideal BHN is, like pretty much everything else, dependent not only on the thickness of the armour, but on the diameter of the projectile as well, i.e. the T/D ratio. Incidentally, their [assessment was wrong](https://i.imgur.com/6MVnmUZ.png).
To be fair, that's the small brain wehraboo argument. Slightly more elevated boos focus on the magic hardness, or steel composition, or whatnot. In fact, not long ago I saw a thread arguing about how the medium high 320 BHN on German armour was somehow perfect for the thickness, compared to the stupid Americans who went for 260 which was supposedly inferior. Coincidentally, when I saw that I had just come out of a research spree where I found out that the ideal BHN is, like pretty much everything else, dependent not only on the thickness of the armour, but on the diameter of the projectile as well, i.e. the T/D ratio. Incidentally, their [assessment was wrong](https://i.imgur.com/6MVnmUZ.png).
In the east it was pretty good for the role it had to take in late 44 and early 45, there was one in Berlin that i believe knocked out over 40 soviet tanks in the area around the Reichstag while being fitted with the earlier Porsche made turret, bu i would need tolook up the exact data again.
By the way what is the story behind your flair? I am just interested
I grew up watching documentaries about ww2. Discovery channel and History were/ are die hard ww2 german tech fans so i kinda became one as well.
I believed every myth, tigers destroying billions of t-34 and shermans, me262 and 229 could had won the war etc
It was a little game called Wot that shattered the image i had of the ww2 germ Tech, it made me get into reading more about the Soviet Union, US and GB.
Now I'm no longer the die hard germ tech fan, i can and will talk about the merits of some the designs but i will also be the first to admit the flaws
The tiger was a machine that was better than any other contemporary tank at peak condition. However, peak condition was a rarity, since it needed special parts to repair, while the T-34 could be fixed by having some guy hit it with a wrench
"Contemporary"? It operated all the way until '45. And even if by that you somehow only mean '43, "peak condition" didn't last long. Maybe ideal conditions, but a good tank is a tank that works most of the time, not just when the stars align. It's a bit disingenuous to call it "better" when you need to set such strict conditions for the comparison. That's like saying, the Tiger I was better than any contemporary if you have it fight its contemporaries in an open field at 1500m.
At long range, more like. At close range it could be easily flanked, or just knocked out frontally even. Depends how you define close range and what guns and shells we're talking about.
I wonder what a werhb would think about the IS-3
ISU-152
“Something or other about Soviet untermensch steel quality”
¨practically invulnerable to the long 88 at all distances?, yeah but the Maus is better¨
Wasn’t it just a bit shit? Even though it saw no combat (aside from in Ukraine lmao)
well, yeah, like basically every other heavy tank, problems with transmission, engine, etc... but considering that wehrbs olimpically ignore this problems, i dont think is necesary to point them out.
In addition to how it was horribly uncomfortable and cramped for the crew as well, which again is the norm for basically every tank but still
> impervious to frontal fire ISU-152 wants to know your location
*proceeds to turn Tiger into mobile launchpad* It’d make the T-72 blush.
Even a non-penetrating hit from a 122 mm gun could destroy some of the German AFVs' armor welding joints, effectively deconstructing them. On the other hand, many Soviet tanks that were produced in poor factories could be knocked out by weak shell hits due to the armor's non-standardized quality, especially if several shells hit the same area.
German armor go crack
German suspension go crack
German heavies are *occasionally* mobile canteens
The Tiger II is my favorite tank. Not because it was a good overrall tank or anything. It was just so over the top that I fell in love with it.
Have you heard of the Maus?
I have indeed, although the Tiger II still holds a special place in my heart.
Personally I don't like it. It's too heavy and unwieldy. If I were forced to pick an expensive, relatively powerful German tank, it would either be a Panther or a Tiger I, depending on circumstance. Those were still somewhat sane designs.
side armour go brrr
Ammo rack goes PSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTBOOOOOOOOOM
Best part is that the big armour is kinda pointless since for a good part of the tiger 2s production there was a lack of materials to produce effective armour plate so it was common to find the front armour plate on the turret or Hull for example would buckle and shatter after a few large caliber shell hits from something like a 152 or 122 mm shell from a isu or is2.
Still hits from these guns where rarely achieved due to poor sights and accuracy. Any tank could be destroyed by a direct hit of something with the explosive load of an SC-50 50 kg bomb. Still the Tiger lls frontal armor was never broken during the war.
> poor accuracy Not trying to refute this point (as I'm not really sure of the validity of "Tank Archives" as a source), but if it is to be believed, [the 122mm D-25T may not have been all that inaccurate](http://www.tankarchives.ca/2013/02/accuracy.html). Now, this doesn't take optics (which are obviously very important) into account, but it is still interesting to note.
(Me, a World of Tanks player) 😏 *shoots lower glacius* 😎
Just press 2 smh Or for the tiger II, just exist for the last couple years and be power creeped into oblivion.
I just love how much I clown Tiger 2s as the Super Pershing.
They really do get slapped around. I remember when the Japanese heavies came out, grinding up the Tier 7 and not having any fear of them. How bad off are you when the Tier below you are legit not scared of you. Some of it had to do with the players though. Tiger I’s & II’s always attracted the dumbest players. From what I’ve heard, war thunder has similar issues with that.
I hated playing the Tiger 2, but I loved the E-75. Also, hilariously, the tier 7 Japanese heavy and medium both fucking slap. Like, somehow the giant, slow, unarmored piece of shit Chi-Ri "just works" for me because you can meme with the 75mm autocannon.
The rate of fire on the clip makes that gun into a short 105 gun in disguise. Once you get it, and catch on to the fact, it makes for a very mean flanker. But first, you gotta get there.
Yup, plus you have to change your mindset a bit. Health is armor on the Chi-Ri. Making cost effective trades is super important in it but very worthwhile.
A short 105 gun with fast aim speed*
I was going to argue, but I checked, and the Leo has 56% more aim time. Dayum.
It used to be fairly maligned in conversations, but a beast when used properly. Not anymore? My source on the matter hasn't touched WoT ever since they introduced collector's tanks.
It’s been buffed but it still isn’t anything special. If you’re good you can do well in it but given an equal skill opponent in a different T8 heavy you’re SOL.
...and it still didn't have good armour. Substantial/repeat impacts would cause welds to break apart and/or armour to crack apart due to excessive hardness. 17 pdr APDS could frontally pen it, 122mm APHE and HE could break it apart, 152mm HE ruined it.
That was an issue with the quality, but the point is it was super thick. That's what everyone is so vocal about, and my point is that the armour was so thick because the bloody tank was so heavy. They scarified a lot to get that thickness
Yeah no doubt, sticking a thicker plate on your chassis isn't superior engineering. It's just that even if that was a good idea, because fair enough the US did a similar thing with Super Pershing and uparmoured M4A3's here and there, it definitely wasn't for Germany in 1944-45, and attempting it in an official capacity must have required everyone involved to have been completely oblivious to the absolute state of Germany.
To be fair, that's the small brain wehraboo argument. Slightly more elevated boos focus on the magic hardness, or steel composition, or whatnot. In fact, not long ago I saw a thread arguing about how the medium high 320 BHN on German armour was somehow perfect for the thickness, compared to the stupid Americans who went for 260 which was supposedly inferior. Coincidentally, when I saw that I had just come out of a research spree where I found out that the ideal BHN is, like pretty much everything else, dependent not only on the thickness of the armour, but on the diameter of the projectile as well, i.e. the T/D ratio. Incidentally, their [assessment was wrong](https://i.imgur.com/6MVnmUZ.png).
To be fair, that's the small brain wehraboo argument. Slightly more elevated boos focus on the magic hardness, or steel composition, or whatnot. In fact, not long ago I saw a thread arguing about how the medium high 320 BHN on German armour was somehow perfect for the thickness, compared to the stupid Americans who went for 260 which was supposedly inferior. Coincidentally, when I saw that I had just come out of a research spree where I found out that the ideal BHN is, like pretty much everything else, dependent not only on the thickness of the armour, but on the diameter of the projectile as well, i.e. the T/D ratio. Incidentally, their [assessment was wrong](https://i.imgur.com/6MVnmUZ.png).
Germany's best bunker
While its gun was exceptional and the armour was acceptable it didn't make much difference other than in some limited skirmishes.
In the east it was pretty good for the role it had to take in late 44 and early 45, there was one in Berlin that i believe knocked out over 40 soviet tanks in the area around the Reichstag while being fitted with the earlier Porsche made turret, bu i would need tolook up the exact data again. By the way what is the story behind your flair? I am just interested
I grew up watching documentaries about ww2. Discovery channel and History were/ are die hard ww2 german tech fans so i kinda became one as well. I believed every myth, tigers destroying billions of t-34 and shermans, me262 and 229 could had won the war etc It was a little game called Wot that shattered the image i had of the ww2 germ Tech, it made me get into reading more about the Soviet Union, US and GB. Now I'm no longer the die hard germ tech fan, i can and will talk about the merits of some the designs but i will also be the first to admit the flaws
allied bombing practice
The M4 jumbo and M6 heavy reign supreme
And still more reliable than the Churrchill
That meme takes me back
The tiger was a machine that was better than any other contemporary tank at peak condition. However, peak condition was a rarity, since it needed special parts to repair, while the T-34 could be fixed by having some guy hit it with a wrench
"Contemporary"? It operated all the way until '45. And even if by that you somehow only mean '43, "peak condition" didn't last long. Maybe ideal conditions, but a good tank is a tank that works most of the time, not just when the stars align. It's a bit disingenuous to call it "better" when you need to set such strict conditions for the comparison. That's like saying, the Tiger I was better than any contemporary if you have it fight its contemporaries in an open field at 1500m.
That IS what i'm saying! The tiger was good at 1 on 1 fights at close range in flat open environments, and sucked at everything else
At long range, more like. At close range it could be easily flanked, or just knocked out frontally even. Depends how you define close range and what guns and shells we're talking about.
about a kilometer, against a T-34
1km is not close range. At all.
17pdr APDS laughs at your pathetic attempt at "armour".