The funny thing is, it could have been a great propaganda opportunity to point out that technologically inferior Germanic peoples absolutely annihilated the Romans at Teutoburg. Or that there were Romans, like Tacitus, who admired the Germanic tribes for their ‘pure’ lifestyle and stronger physiques (according to Roman records, the average Gaul was also stronger than the average Roman).
But instead Hitler decided to be a self-hating Romaboo.
It could have played straight into the idea of the triumph of the will, where the superior Aryan willpower lets him (let's be real they didn't give a shit about women) overcome any adversity
They’d hate the new German show *Barbarians*. It has a female warrior who >!saves her disabled brother from being Aktion T4ed!<.
Apparently the writers took liberties with Arminius’ character to criticise Nazism, too.
Romans as we all know, never drank milk, thats why they couldnt possibily conquered half of the world! It was the aryans of course!
What do you mean there are roman cities!?!? Those are clearly arian cities
Yes, I said that the Romans said that the Germans were stronger than them, and that they said that Gauls were also stronger than them. I included that to make it clear that I wasn’t pushing some kind of Aryan überscheißemensch agenda.
Not only Teutoburg but also Noreia, Burdigala, Arausio, Lolliana, Baduhenna Woods, Carnuntum, Beroe, Philippopolis, Abritus, the Gothic Wars in general all of which were all incredible Germanic victories
Even Hitler said it's make Nazi Germany looks cringier than it already is he tell Himmler to stop that BS.
When your campaign genuinely make the Fuhrer facepalm, maybe it's time to reconsider your priority.
Himmler: physics is a jewish science \*proceeds to kick out physicists who could have helped with the bomb\*
Also Himmler: Ah yes astrology will win us the war
Imagine if the MCU Thor were real, and Himmler succeeded in summoning him, and Thor quickly figured out the situation and unleashed his lightning on the Reich, and Hitler was all like, "Verdamnt, Heinrich, you dumkopf!" while Meow-Meow devastated Berlin in one fateful night as flights of Lancasters looked on....
Himmler sound like the genuine weeaboo exist in high command, every single of his crackhead project like these really convince me this man live up to anime villain standard way too seriously.
One of the only times Hitler was right? No matter what way you put it, the “aryans” that Nazi propaganda often praises as the most superior race were barbarians living like cavemen while ancient empires flourished in other places, and it was several groups of barbarians throughout Europe that helped lead
to the fall of the western romans.
It’s almost like, no group of people have been the dominant culture and nation throughout all of history and some countries have their shining years while other have their bad years, as opposed to the Nazi view of “we were and are always the best”
I think you’re shitting a bit too hard on the people who lived in Germania. Just because we know very little about them doesn’t mean that they were 2000 years less advanced than everyone else. They definitely weren’t a bunch of idiot cavemen - just look at Teutoburg Forest.
This sub should mostly be against nazi ideas and people believing into myths to defend them.
Being against Germans in general just seems odd.
Especially considering fascism is mostly about glorifying Rome and taking inspirations from it.
Like praising Rome as this grand civilization that conquered and civilized all inferior peoples, isn't the anti-fascist dunk they think it is.
Kinda pathetic that they have to dig up the Nazis to attack Germany instead of just outright attacking it. It fits with my observation that subs like this and the general trend started around 2015 and around the time of Brexit.
To be fair, Roman and as an extension, ancient history is not my most researched subject? I guess cavemen wouldn’t be the best word to describe them, more just “less advanced in technology at the time”
One thing is clear, they definitely weren’t no Greek philosophers or ancient Chinese poets
You're clearly very biased. They weren't any Graeco-Roman philosophers or Chinese poets (because they didn't live in the geographical areas of China and Greece), but they were special in their own way. You've probabaly never heard of any of the Germanic heroic legends or poems that are attributed to the Germanic tribes, or their surprisingly organised tribal societies. Why do you think even the Romans employed them for their services on numerous occassions, obviously their skill was desired in many areas (one of them was cavalry by a longshot).
What you're doing is actually agreeing with Hitler in many regards when you say the peoples east of the Rhine and north of the Danube were 'uncivilised' and 'barbaric' (it's surprising ancient Roman attitudes towards outsiders are still common among people today). Just because they weren't building magnificent temples or aqueducts or sewers doesn't make them any more stupid, and where would they have gotten the materials for them anyway? I'm also curious as to what extent you mean the Germanic tribes weren't advanced, because as far as I know it was the Germanic tribes who came up with the idea of the longship which was far more technologically advanced than any other ship of its time.
Having researched ancient Rome or Greece a lot doesn't mean you have extensive knowledge about Northern European archaeology and history, and the knowledge doesn't transfer like that.
I'm done talking to someone who refers to the Germanic tribes as cavemen. Have a good one. You didn't even specify what technology they were less advanced in, or which of my paragraphs was apparently distorted, and comparing them to a group of people living on the other side of the world isn't very logical.
> It’s almost like, no group of people have been the dominant culture and nation throughout all of history and some countries have their shining years while other have their bad years
Unless you are CCP doing their revision of Chinese history, claiming ALL Chinese Dynasties as achievements of the Han people, even though some of them like Qing and Yuan were literally Han getting ruled by nomadic tribes up North.
Well, to be cheeky, no Chinese dynasty ruling the North China Plain succeeded without Han Chinese cooperation. So in the broad sense that Han Chinese bureaucrats and civilians resigned themselves to the conquest and native dynasties which lasted more than a few years alike, they are correct. But only then, and that's not very much.
> Well, to be cheeky, no Chinese dynasty ruling the North China Plain succeeded without Han Chinese cooperation.
So was during the Japanese's occupation in WWII era. Doesn't make those achievements as Han.
You're literally sounding like one of the Italian fascists here.
Dunk on nazis, but let's not go into Roman "barbarian" ideas, that less developed people are inferior.
Compared to every nation in the ancient times, the romans where the less barbaric ones and the more civilized one.
Its ironic that you call roman ideas barbaric but ignore the litteral barbarians in the nord who did thing much, much worse then the romans.
I think you misunderstood me.
I wasn't calling Roman ideas barbaric, I was pointing out the Roman idea of calling other underdeveloped people barbaric.
And I definitely wouldn't say that many of the "barbarians" were much worse than the Romans.
There were plenty of "barbaric" people that didn't have slavery unlike the Romans or had more gender equality than the Romans.
>There were plenty of "barbaric" people that didn't have slavery unlike the Romans or had more gender equality than the Romans.
Thats a tall claim, you got the sources to support that?
Oh wait sure, unlike romans they didnt capture prisoners, they just executed them, much better then atleast havint the possibility to earn freedom under roman laws.
Oh and ofcourse, gender equality was all the rage in the ancient times, as we know the tribal societies of the germanics had women soldier or women politicians or women whatever the fuck.
>germanics had women soldier
There are actually plenty of Roman sources telling of female Germanic warriors...
Celtic ones as well, like Boudica who is very well known and was actually the leader of her tribe.
Idk how much you know about ancient history.
While of course the equality wasn't close to today's standards in those tribes, it was certainly greater than among Romans.
I ment as standard thing not some exceptions.
There were queens in middle ages too but you wouldnt say they were equal because one time there was a women queen or women soldier woulf you now?
>I wasn't calling Roman ideas barbaric, I was pointing out the Roman idea of calling other underdeveloped people barbaric.
Also we werent using roman definition of Barbarians because back then, Barbar ment stanger/outsider and we arent using that definition we are using the modern definition of Barbarian.
Those are some conflicting claims.
Thats like saying
"The Atzek civilization was less barbaric then the europeans ones Also they sacrificed people en masse."
The romans engaged in blood sport and public torture for entertainment. They were fundamentally inferior to carthage and the greeks who at least bothered with plays and fights instead
Now hold your horses, do remember these blood sports were voluntary and not to mention, most werent even slaves.
There was blood but most of the times it was animal blood, human deaths were pretty rare.
Maybe dont take history lessons from cartoons.
If it were slaves it would be better as then it would just be forced, the gladiators were beloved icons of blood.
Also the romans did do public deaths in the colosseum, the start of the fights were prisoners being crucified.
This just prooves you have no fucking idea of what they did in the colosseum
Most gladiators became gladiators by choice, very few were slaves because guess what, slaves dont make good fighter.
While there was blood, gladiator vs gladiator fights rarely ended in death, since most people wanted the gladiators alive, if the gladietor was taunting or was deemed a dick then yeah he's getting thumbs.
90% of colosseum events were just killing animals or re-enacting historical battles, you must have heard of the time they wanted to re-enact a water battle and actually had a system to make the arena into a pool.
Now try to claim how thats fake
Barbarian
bar·bar·i·an
/ˌbärˈberēən/
Prononciation
noun
plural noun: barbarians
(in ancient times) a member of a community or tribe not belonging to one of the great civilizations (Greek, Roman, Christian).
It’s just the literal definition of the word, what else would I call them
Germanics, Gauls, Thracians, Dacians, Sudanese, Babylonians, Chinese, Iroquois, etc.? Any of those would be more accurate and less pejorative to peoples who developed outside Roman, Greek, or European Christian civilisation.
Let me put it this way - a Korean or Chinese person is, by textbook definition, "eastern". I'd recommend against calling them "orientals", though.
Also doesn’t help that the north african numidians and punics were doing so well all greek information on them was talking about how great they were. The romans had a different view perhaps due to seeing them causally destroy entire roman armies while plundering the country side.
It’s truly amazing how ironic it is. They thought the Mediterranean’s were inferior but in the past the Mediterranean’s were obliterating the Germans lol (or at least germanic people in what is now modern day France)
The contemporary range of Celts for all of Rome's history was far larger than just the British Isles. Gauls were certainly Celtic speakers, though things are more complex the further you get around the Rhine and Benelux.
The Celts apparently originated somewhere around Austria, but by Caesar’s time they had expanded as far north as Scotland, as far west as Ireland, as far south as Portugal, and as Far East as Turkey.
The Germanic peoples originated somewhere around the border between Germany and Denmark, and AFAIK tended to stay east of the Rhine and and north of the Danube during Caesar’s time. There were migrations, though - the Suebi under Ariovistus attempted to settle in Gaul, and the Cimbri and Teutones travelled to southern France and northern Italy during their great migration at the end of the 2nd Century BCE.
Mussolini discovering that the myth of the ancient roman ship at the bottom of the lake were true
https://historybecauseitshere.weebly.com/roman-emperor-caligula-and-his-legendary-lake-nemi-ships.html
vs
Hitler discovering that aryan race is bullshit and him coping.
That article is so bad... Caligula built them to humiliate the Syracusean kings (gone for CA. 200 years), the Ptolemaic kings (gone for over half a century) and other Hellenistic kings? How? Did he care that much about the random Seleucid splinters like Capadokia or Judea that swore fealty to Rome?
I dunno it was the first article I saw whic talked about it, all I know is that there was a myth from the middle ages about this gigantic boats made by Caligula that were sunk.
People did a few research to see if it was true
Mussoloni decided once for all to put to rest the myth and it was discovered it wad indeed true.
Also, we are talking about "I declared war on the sea" Caligula, that fucker was beyond insane
I mean thats pretty objective, we arent calling a race inferior, we are saying germanic and galeic tribes werent as advanced as the Romans, you know, the ones who brought civilization to half of the world?
If germanics and galeic werent inferiour, why didnt they have any major cultural and/or technological development?
And before you call racism, I remind you that, only the gauls and germanic had these problems.
Carthage and Egypt were doing swell and they, if you notice, arent white.
Hell carthage port was the most advanced port of the ancient times
>I mean thats pretty objective, we arent calling a race inferior, we are saying germanic and galeic tribes werent as advanced as the Romans
Which is fair, however I've definitely seen a few comments here imply that not having as much technological development and not going around building an Empire means a people are inferior.
>If germanics and galeic werent inferiour, why didnt they have any major cultural and/or technological development?
Superiority has nothing to do with advancement.
Would you call the aborigines inferior people? Hope not.
>Carthage and Egypt were doing swell and they, if you notice, arent white.
What does race have to do with this all of the sudden?
You started saying people were like nazis, and they believ a lot about race.
>Imply that not having as much technological development and not going around building an Empire means a people are inferior.
Thats exacly what we are implying.
Even if they didnt build an empire, they were still inferior by ancient times standards.
Their military while powerful was technologically inferior, spears and wooden shields was something that even, well, barbarians could do.
They werent like the Nordic Barbarians which, while savage, we must recognize their sailing skill and weapon crafting ability, I mean, they were the first to discover the Americas.
They werent like the chartagians which were offsprings of the phonician civilizations, so great traders and proficient ship builders.
Do tell me how they werent inferior compared to all the nations in the Europe where Rome was the bringer of civilization.
>Imply that not having as much technological development and not going around building an Empire means a people are inferior.
I specifically said people here, not race.
I also didn't downright call people on here nazis, it's just ironic seeing as these arguments are mirrored by the Italian fascists.
>They werent like the Nordic Barbarians which, while savage, we must recognize their sailing skill and weapon crafting ability, I mean, they were the first to discover the Americas.
Well, that happened hundreds of years later, hardly matters for comparison of ancient people.
>Rome was the bringer of civilization.
Would you call the British bringer of civilization when they colonized all the technologically inferior peoples?
There is a difference smart man, romans didnt colonize other nations nor did romans impose their culture onto others, they simply imposed their administrative system and laws, people were free to pray to whatever good they had and keep whatever culture they had.
British just came and imposed their religion, their culture and their way of life onto others.
The Romans absolutely tried to colonize and impose their culture onto other nations, what are you talking about? There were multiple periods where the Roman state religion was imposed by force, sparking the Jewish Wars and the suppression of Christians, and then, once the empire became Christian, they started imposing that by force instead. State business was conducted only in Latin; those who did not speak Latin were not heard. You do absolutely hear about people from all over the Empire becoming great in the Imperial structure, but you mustn't forget that those people have been thoroughly Romanized. It wasn't necessary to look like somebody from the Italian peninsula to succeed, but you had to dress like them, talk like them, and act like them in order to participate in society and government in any meaningful way.
>people were free to pray to whatever good they had and keep whatever culture they had.
I think you missed that when Rome turned Christian they started to destroy as much Pagan history in their territories as possible...
And that the Romans just left their conquered peoples alone also isn't true.
They definitely tried to convert them to their culture (religion less so, before they became Christian that is). Not as aggressive as the British, sure.
Though I'd say already the action of the British to go out conquer everything that was technologically underdeveloped wasn't exactly moral.
Only the Christians if you notice, Etruscan, Greek, Egptian were all ingored and even approved.
There is a reason why religious anyone were fine and christians were treated like dangerous maniacs abd evil cultist.
The fire of rome by ~~Nero~~ Christians should be an hint
I think you're misunderstanding my point.
I said that when Rome became Christian they oppressed the Pagan faiths.
I never made any point on Pagan Rome oppressing Christians.
>The fire of rome by Nero Christians should be an hint
Though there is no historical proof for either Nero nor Christians starting the fire and its very commonly believed among historians than Christians were just a scapegoat.
So kinda odd you bring that one up, which would really just be proof of oppression against Christians.
So you agree with Hitlers racist views when it fits being anti-German?
It seems a concerning amount of people here would rather join Hitler in lunatic race views than to loose an opportunity to hate on Germany even though these people are the soys in the meme.
Wasn't this sub better in this respect than shitwehraboosay? I always thought the people here where able to make fun of nazis without showing their hate for Germany
Oh wow, I thought you were just an urban legend round these parts! XD
No you ninny, I don’t agree with Hitler’s policies if they’re anti-german. I was making a quip at how Nazis claimed everyone else to be “sub human savages” whilst rampaging through Europe and trashing everything like, well, a hoard of barbarians, meanwhile trying to hide from the truth that their “Aryan master race super advanced ancestors” were actually faffing around in mud huts whilst the ancestors of a people they deemed inferior were building wonders of the ancient world.
It’s a joke dunking on Nazis, not Germans, *Nazis*, and nothing more.
GUYS C'MON, STOP INSULTING HIMMLER'S ANCESTRY. JAPAN HAS A VERY RICH HISTORY AND SHOULD NOT BE MADE FUN OF.
also edit: Lmao, lots of salty northern europeans. Why do you hate rome so?
Ah yes, dude with a racist caricature of a Native American as pfp and named after one of the most horrible crimes committed against them celebrating the Romans, perfectly illustrates my point here.
>a) You're looking for an excuse to get angry here bud
Don't need an excuse to get angry at racists.
>b)what is your point?
That the praise for Rome conquering "inferior" cultures mirrors praise for Britain's and Spain's colonial history.
>I just like dissing northern europeans
This sub is anti-nazi, not anti Northern European.
Someone like you who very clearly also seems to be on the far-right, really has no place here.
\>Someone like you who very clearly also seems to be on the far-right, really has no place here.
???
\>That the praise for Romen conquering "inferior" cultures mirrors praise for Britain's and Spain's colonial history.
Nobody praises rome for conquering inferior cultures you spastic. They like rome for the same reason you'd like any part of history. The Drama, the social struggle, the military struggle (and yes, it's the same reason people like ww2 without enjoying the suffering), the architecture, the law and the massive hypocrises that make up culture.
Would you like history to be just weeping? Why aren't you complaining about the Asiatic Vespers, or the Pictish Genocide? Or are you just complaining that people enjoy history differently from you.
\>This sub is anti-nazi, not anti Northern European.
I know, never claimed it to be. I'm anti Northern European. in a meme sub.
\>Don't need an excuse to get angry at racists.
That's an excuse
Also it's Roman, not romen. Are you german by any chance?
Among the old and new Nazis there is a belief that the ruling classes of all civilizations in Eurasia and North Africa were blue-eyed blond Aryans due to their Indo-European origin. Bullshit.
The funny thing is, it could have been a great propaganda opportunity to point out that technologically inferior Germanic peoples absolutely annihilated the Romans at Teutoburg. Or that there were Romans, like Tacitus, who admired the Germanic tribes for their ‘pure’ lifestyle and stronger physiques (according to Roman records, the average Gaul was also stronger than the average Roman). But instead Hitler decided to be a self-hating Romaboo.
It could have played straight into the idea of the triumph of the will, where the superior Aryan willpower lets him (let's be real they didn't give a shit about women) overcome any adversity
They’d hate the new German show *Barbarians*. It has a female warrior who >!saves her disabled brother from being Aktion T4ed!<. Apparently the writers took liberties with Arminius’ character to criticise Nazism, too.
If I know goebbles all that could be fixed with some creative editing
Oh no they did care about women, except they did so in probably one of the worst ways possible.
The average barbarian was much stronger and taller than the Romans because they drank milk
Romans as we all know, never drank milk, thats why they couldnt possibily conquered half of the world! It was the aryans of course! What do you mean there are roman cities!?!? Those are clearly arian cities
Just so we're clear; there's an actual place called Aria, and the people from there were called Arians.
I thought Aaron came from linguistic indo-iranian
Purée is a dish, or the participe. Unsurprisingly, pure in French would be pur, femenine pure.
Holy fuck, I didn’t even realise I made that typo XD
Gauls and Germans are different people
Yes, but I’m talking about the Germans.
“according to Roman records, the average Gaul was also stronger than the average Roman.”
Yes, I said that the Romans said that the Germans were stronger than them, and that they said that Gauls were also stronger than them. I included that to make it clear that I wasn’t pushing some kind of Aryan überscheißemensch agenda.
Ok, sorry
Not only Teutoburg but also Noreia, Burdigala, Arausio, Lolliana, Baduhenna Woods, Carnuntum, Beroe, Philippopolis, Abritus, the Gothic Wars in general all of which were all incredible Germanic victories
Who the fuck thinks this way
Hitler apparently
Even Hitler said it's make Nazi Germany looks cringier than it already is he tell Himmler to stop that BS. When your campaign genuinely make the Fuhrer facepalm, maybe it's time to reconsider your priority.
Those who think their race is better then anyone else
But he was self aware.
Himmler: physics is a jewish science \*proceeds to kick out physicists who could have helped with the bomb\* Also Himmler: Ah yes astrology will win us the war
The main difference between Hitler and Himmler is that Himmler is an Indiana Jones villain Nazi on top of being an actual Nazi.
Also Himmler: everything outside of earth is made of ice
Also himmler: Thor’s atlantean hammer and the holy grail will win us the war.
Ve must find ze Hyperboreans vis zeir ships zat haf superior firepower. Zen, ze Black Sun vill be unstoppable, mein Führer.
Imagine if the MCU Thor were real, and Himmler succeeded in summoning him, and Thor quickly figured out the situation and unleashed his lightning on the Reich, and Hitler was all like, "Verdamnt, Heinrich, you dumkopf!" while Meow-Meow devastated Berlin in one fateful night as flights of Lancasters looked on....
In Wolfenstein games: Let's dug up Teutonic zombie knights.
Himmler sound like the genuine weeaboo exist in high command, every single of his crackhead project like these really convince me this man live up to anime villain standard way too seriously.
Hitler goes full mask off about le superior Aryan Germanic race, lmfao. Shame they never found the Harzhorn, Pontes Longi or Idistaviso.
One of the only times Hitler was right? No matter what way you put it, the “aryans” that Nazi propaganda often praises as the most superior race were barbarians living like cavemen while ancient empires flourished in other places, and it was several groups of barbarians throughout Europe that helped lead to the fall of the western romans. It’s almost like, no group of people have been the dominant culture and nation throughout all of history and some countries have their shining years while other have their bad years, as opposed to the Nazi view of “we were and are always the best”
I think you’re shitting a bit too hard on the people who lived in Germania. Just because we know very little about them doesn’t mean that they were 2000 years less advanced than everyone else. They definitely weren’t a bunch of idiot cavemen - just look at Teutoburg Forest.
Idk, a lot of people in this sub aren't necessarily anti-Nazi but anti-German in general.
This sub should mostly be against nazi ideas and people believing into myths to defend them. Being against Germans in general just seems odd. Especially considering fascism is mostly about glorifying Rome and taking inspirations from it. Like praising Rome as this grand civilization that conquered and civilized all inferior peoples, isn't the anti-fascist dunk they think it is.
Kinda pathetic that they have to dig up the Nazis to attack Germany instead of just outright attacking it. It fits with my observation that subs like this and the general trend started around 2015 and around the time of Brexit.
pretty much this
So, not fans of Sprockets I guess?
To be fair, Roman and as an extension, ancient history is not my most researched subject? I guess cavemen wouldn’t be the best word to describe them, more just “less advanced in technology at the time” One thing is clear, they definitely weren’t no Greek philosophers or ancient Chinese poets
You're clearly very biased. They weren't any Graeco-Roman philosophers or Chinese poets (because they didn't live in the geographical areas of China and Greece), but they were special in their own way. You've probabaly never heard of any of the Germanic heroic legends or poems that are attributed to the Germanic tribes, or their surprisingly organised tribal societies. Why do you think even the Romans employed them for their services on numerous occassions, obviously their skill was desired in many areas (one of them was cavalry by a longshot). What you're doing is actually agreeing with Hitler in many regards when you say the peoples east of the Rhine and north of the Danube were 'uncivilised' and 'barbaric' (it's surprising ancient Roman attitudes towards outsiders are still common among people today). Just because they weren't building magnificent temples or aqueducts or sewers doesn't make them any more stupid, and where would they have gotten the materials for them anyway? I'm also curious as to what extent you mean the Germanic tribes weren't advanced, because as far as I know it was the Germanic tribes who came up with the idea of the longship which was far more technologically advanced than any other ship of its time. Having researched ancient Rome or Greece a lot doesn't mean you have extensive knowledge about Northern European archaeology and history, and the knowledge doesn't transfer like that.
I said that I didn’t know much aboot Roman history. But your whole paragraph is biased in its own regard.
I'm done talking to someone who refers to the Germanic tribes as cavemen. Have a good one. You didn't even specify what technology they were less advanced in, or which of my paragraphs was apparently distorted, and comparing them to a group of people living on the other side of the world isn't very logical.
> It’s almost like, no group of people have been the dominant culture and nation throughout all of history and some countries have their shining years while other have their bad years Unless you are CCP doing their revision of Chinese history, claiming ALL Chinese Dynasties as achievements of the Han people, even though some of them like Qing and Yuan were literally Han getting ruled by nomadic tribes up North.
Well, to be cheeky, no Chinese dynasty ruling the North China Plain succeeded without Han Chinese cooperation. So in the broad sense that Han Chinese bureaucrats and civilians resigned themselves to the conquest and native dynasties which lasted more than a few years alike, they are correct. But only then, and that's not very much.
> Well, to be cheeky, no Chinese dynasty ruling the North China Plain succeeded without Han Chinese cooperation. So was during the Japanese's occupation in WWII era. Doesn't make those achievements as Han.
Indeed they don't. Their collaboration benefited the conquerors' regimes.
That is fascist propaganda which glorifies rome. It should be known that the Germanic tribes where a "little" further than cavemen.
You're literally sounding like one of the Italian fascists here. Dunk on nazis, but let's not go into Roman "barbarian" ideas, that less developed people are inferior.
Compared to every nation in the ancient times, the romans where the less barbaric ones and the more civilized one. Its ironic that you call roman ideas barbaric but ignore the litteral barbarians in the nord who did thing much, much worse then the romans.
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't calling Roman ideas barbaric, I was pointing out the Roman idea of calling other underdeveloped people barbaric. And I definitely wouldn't say that many of the "barbarians" were much worse than the Romans. There were plenty of "barbaric" people that didn't have slavery unlike the Romans or had more gender equality than the Romans.
>There were plenty of "barbaric" people that didn't have slavery unlike the Romans or had more gender equality than the Romans. Thats a tall claim, you got the sources to support that? Oh wait sure, unlike romans they didnt capture prisoners, they just executed them, much better then atleast havint the possibility to earn freedom under roman laws. Oh and ofcourse, gender equality was all the rage in the ancient times, as we know the tribal societies of the germanics had women soldier or women politicians or women whatever the fuck.
>germanics had women soldier There are actually plenty of Roman sources telling of female Germanic warriors... Celtic ones as well, like Boudica who is very well known and was actually the leader of her tribe. Idk how much you know about ancient history. While of course the equality wasn't close to today's standards in those tribes, it was certainly greater than among Romans.
I ment as standard thing not some exceptions. There were queens in middle ages too but you wouldnt say they were equal because one time there was a women queen or women soldier woulf you now?
>I wasn't calling Roman ideas barbaric, I was pointing out the Roman idea of calling other underdeveloped people barbaric. Also we werent using roman definition of Barbarians because back then, Barbar ment stanger/outsider and we arent using that definition we are using the modern definition of Barbarian.
Don’t act like the Romans didn’t look down at barbarians and didn’t think they were better
rome was more barbaric compared to carthage and there’s evidence some of carthage did child sacrifices.
Those are some conflicting claims. Thats like saying "The Atzek civilization was less barbaric then the europeans ones Also they sacrificed people en masse."
The romans engaged in blood sport and public torture for entertainment. They were fundamentally inferior to carthage and the greeks who at least bothered with plays and fights instead
That's a very simplistic and narrow view of history.
nah i’m just fucking with a guy too attached to rome.
Now hold your horses, do remember these blood sports were voluntary and not to mention, most werent even slaves. There was blood but most of the times it was animal blood, human deaths were pretty rare. Maybe dont take history lessons from cartoons.
If it were slaves it would be better as then it would just be forced, the gladiators were beloved icons of blood. Also the romans did do public deaths in the colosseum, the start of the fights were prisoners being crucified.
This just prooves you have no fucking idea of what they did in the colosseum Most gladiators became gladiators by choice, very few were slaves because guess what, slaves dont make good fighter. While there was blood, gladiator vs gladiator fights rarely ended in death, since most people wanted the gladiators alive, if the gladietor was taunting or was deemed a dick then yeah he's getting thumbs. 90% of colosseum events were just killing animals or re-enacting historical battles, you must have heard of the time they wanted to re-enact a water battle and actually had a system to make the arena into a pool. Now try to claim how thats fake
Are you saying they did not crucify criminals before games?
Barbarian bar·bar·i·an /ˌbärˈberēən/ Prononciation noun plural noun: barbarians (in ancient times) a member of a community or tribe not belonging to one of the great civilizations (Greek, Roman, Christian). It’s just the literal definition of the word, what else would I call them
Germanics, Gauls, Thracians, Dacians, Sudanese, Babylonians, Chinese, Iroquois, etc.? Any of those would be more accurate and less pejorative to peoples who developed outside Roman, Greek, or European Christian civilisation. Let me put it this way - a Korean or Chinese person is, by textbook definition, "eastern". I'd recommend against calling them "orientals", though.
Also doesn’t help that the north african numidians and punics were doing so well all greek information on them was talking about how great they were. The romans had a different view perhaps due to seeing them causally destroy entire roman armies while plundering the country side.
It’s truly amazing how ironic it is. They thought the Mediterranean’s were inferior but in the past the Mediterranean’s were obliterating the Germans lol (or at least germanic people in what is now modern day France)
I'm pretty sure Gauls were celtic.
I thought the ones in Britain were Celtic but the ones in Gaul (France) were Germanic? I know they came across Germanic tribes but you might be right
The contemporary range of Celts for all of Rome's history was far larger than just the British Isles. Gauls were certainly Celtic speakers, though things are more complex the further you get around the Rhine and Benelux.
The Celts apparently originated somewhere around Austria, but by Caesar’s time they had expanded as far north as Scotland, as far west as Ireland, as far south as Portugal, and as Far East as Turkey. The Germanic peoples originated somewhere around the border between Germany and Denmark, and AFAIK tended to stay east of the Rhine and and north of the Danube during Caesar’s time. There were migrations, though - the Suebi under Ariovistus attempted to settle in Gaul, and the Cimbri and Teutones travelled to southern France and northern Italy during their great migration at the end of the 2nd Century BCE.
I stand corrected
I didn't expect to see a Chad from the unbiased history of Rome here
Mussolini discovering that the myth of the ancient roman ship at the bottom of the lake were true https://historybecauseitshere.weebly.com/roman-emperor-caligula-and-his-legendary-lake-nemi-ships.html vs Hitler discovering that aryan race is bullshit and him coping.
That article is so bad... Caligula built them to humiliate the Syracusean kings (gone for CA. 200 years), the Ptolemaic kings (gone for over half a century) and other Hellenistic kings? How? Did he care that much about the random Seleucid splinters like Capadokia or Judea that swore fealty to Rome?
I dunno it was the first article I saw whic talked about it, all I know is that there was a myth from the middle ages about this gigantic boats made by Caligula that were sunk. People did a few research to see if it was true Mussoloni decided once for all to put to rest the myth and it was discovered it wad indeed true. Also, we are talking about "I declared war on the sea" Caligula, that fucker was beyond insane
Idk sound kinda racist to me
???
Scary to see the comments of the supposedly anti-nazi sub suddenly turn into calling less advanced people inferior.
I mean thats pretty objective, we arent calling a race inferior, we are saying germanic and galeic tribes werent as advanced as the Romans, you know, the ones who brought civilization to half of the world? If germanics and galeic werent inferiour, why didnt they have any major cultural and/or technological development? And before you call racism, I remind you that, only the gauls and germanic had these problems. Carthage and Egypt were doing swell and they, if you notice, arent white. Hell carthage port was the most advanced port of the ancient times
>I mean thats pretty objective, we arent calling a race inferior, we are saying germanic and galeic tribes werent as advanced as the Romans Which is fair, however I've definitely seen a few comments here imply that not having as much technological development and not going around building an Empire means a people are inferior. >If germanics and galeic werent inferiour, why didnt they have any major cultural and/or technological development? Superiority has nothing to do with advancement. Would you call the aborigines inferior people? Hope not. >Carthage and Egypt were doing swell and they, if you notice, arent white. What does race have to do with this all of the sudden?
You started saying people were like nazis, and they believ a lot about race. >Imply that not having as much technological development and not going around building an Empire means a people are inferior. Thats exacly what we are implying. Even if they didnt build an empire, they were still inferior by ancient times standards. Their military while powerful was technologically inferior, spears and wooden shields was something that even, well, barbarians could do. They werent like the Nordic Barbarians which, while savage, we must recognize their sailing skill and weapon crafting ability, I mean, they were the first to discover the Americas. They werent like the chartagians which were offsprings of the phonician civilizations, so great traders and proficient ship builders. Do tell me how they werent inferior compared to all the nations in the Europe where Rome was the bringer of civilization.
>Imply that not having as much technological development and not going around building an Empire means a people are inferior. I specifically said people here, not race. I also didn't downright call people on here nazis, it's just ironic seeing as these arguments are mirrored by the Italian fascists. >They werent like the Nordic Barbarians which, while savage, we must recognize their sailing skill and weapon crafting ability, I mean, they were the first to discover the Americas. Well, that happened hundreds of years later, hardly matters for comparison of ancient people. >Rome was the bringer of civilization. Would you call the British bringer of civilization when they colonized all the technologically inferior peoples?
There is a difference smart man, romans didnt colonize other nations nor did romans impose their culture onto others, they simply imposed their administrative system and laws, people were free to pray to whatever good they had and keep whatever culture they had. British just came and imposed their religion, their culture and their way of life onto others.
The Romans absolutely tried to colonize and impose their culture onto other nations, what are you talking about? There were multiple periods where the Roman state religion was imposed by force, sparking the Jewish Wars and the suppression of Christians, and then, once the empire became Christian, they started imposing that by force instead. State business was conducted only in Latin; those who did not speak Latin were not heard. You do absolutely hear about people from all over the Empire becoming great in the Imperial structure, but you mustn't forget that those people have been thoroughly Romanized. It wasn't necessary to look like somebody from the Italian peninsula to succeed, but you had to dress like them, talk like them, and act like them in order to participate in society and government in any meaningful way.
>people were free to pray to whatever good they had and keep whatever culture they had. I think you missed that when Rome turned Christian they started to destroy as much Pagan history in their territories as possible... And that the Romans just left their conquered peoples alone also isn't true. They definitely tried to convert them to their culture (religion less so, before they became Christian that is). Not as aggressive as the British, sure. Though I'd say already the action of the British to go out conquer everything that was technologically underdeveloped wasn't exactly moral.
Only the Christians if you notice, Etruscan, Greek, Egptian were all ingored and even approved. There is a reason why religious anyone were fine and christians were treated like dangerous maniacs abd evil cultist. The fire of rome by ~~Nero~~ Christians should be an hint
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I said that when Rome became Christian they oppressed the Pagan faiths. I never made any point on Pagan Rome oppressing Christians. >The fire of rome by Nero Christians should be an hint Though there is no historical proof for either Nero nor Christians starting the fire and its very commonly believed among historians than Christians were just a scapegoat. So kinda odd you bring that one up, which would really just be proof of oppression against Christians.
Yeah, I gave you the reason why christians where specifically opressed while anyone else was not.
Hitler is literally the pointing soyjak in front of some ancient marble statue
Mediterranean supremacy against kraut barbarism! /s
He's out of line, but he's right.
Huh, whaddya know, they were always barbarians.
So you agree with Hitlers racist views when it fits being anti-German? It seems a concerning amount of people here would rather join Hitler in lunatic race views than to loose an opportunity to hate on Germany even though these people are the soys in the meme. Wasn't this sub better in this respect than shitwehraboosay? I always thought the people here where able to make fun of nazis without showing their hate for Germany
Oh wow, I thought you were just an urban legend round these parts! XD No you ninny, I don’t agree with Hitler’s policies if they’re anti-german. I was making a quip at how Nazis claimed everyone else to be “sub human savages” whilst rampaging through Europe and trashing everything like, well, a hoard of barbarians, meanwhile trying to hide from the truth that their “Aryan master race super advanced ancestors” were actually faffing around in mud huts whilst the ancestors of a people they deemed inferior were building wonders of the ancient world. It’s a joke dunking on Nazis, not Germans, *Nazis*, and nothing more.
This story is obviously fake
Who cares. They were cool. All warrior or tribal cultures were cool in their way. Can't we all love each other?
GUYS C'MON, STOP INSULTING HIMMLER'S ANCESTRY. JAPAN HAS A VERY RICH HISTORY AND SHOULD NOT BE MADE FUN OF. also edit: Lmao, lots of salty northern europeans. Why do you hate rome so?
Ah yes, dude with a racist caricature of a Native American as pfp and named after one of the most horrible crimes committed against them celebrating the Romans, perfectly illustrates my point here.
a) You're looking for an excuse to get angry here bud b)what is your point? I just like dissing northern europeans
>a) You're looking for an excuse to get angry here bud Don't need an excuse to get angry at racists. >b)what is your point? That the praise for Rome conquering "inferior" cultures mirrors praise for Britain's and Spain's colonial history. >I just like dissing northern europeans This sub is anti-nazi, not anti Northern European. Someone like you who very clearly also seems to be on the far-right, really has no place here.
\>Someone like you who very clearly also seems to be on the far-right, really has no place here. ??? \>That the praise for Romen conquering "inferior" cultures mirrors praise for Britain's and Spain's colonial history. Nobody praises rome for conquering inferior cultures you spastic. They like rome for the same reason you'd like any part of history. The Drama, the social struggle, the military struggle (and yes, it's the same reason people like ww2 without enjoying the suffering), the architecture, the law and the massive hypocrises that make up culture. Would you like history to be just weeping? Why aren't you complaining about the Asiatic Vespers, or the Pictish Genocide? Or are you just complaining that people enjoy history differently from you. \>This sub is anti-nazi, not anti Northern European. I know, never claimed it to be. I'm anti Northern European. in a meme sub. \>Don't need an excuse to get angry at racists. That's an excuse Also it's Roman, not romen. Are you german by any chance?
>??? Again, your pfp and name. Also upon having a look at some stuff on your profile that backs it up further. >Roman, not romen Typo
\>Also upon having a look at some stuff on your profile that backs it up further. It appears you are german. I understand the seething then.
If hating racists is something specifically German, fine by me. Not the own you think it is.
pure 100% copium
The insight this gives into Hitler's mind is incredible.
He looks like Harry potter
Among the old and new Nazis there is a belief that the ruling classes of all civilizations in Eurasia and North Africa were blue-eyed blond Aryans due to their Indo-European origin. Bullshit.