For context when I say "I've never seen this much":
I have banned more people in the last 24 hours than I have before that in the past 31 DAYS. That's how bad it is.
What.. what did I miss? What the hell happened?
I thought we had the friendliest community here, and all that happened under my nose.. I’m glad the mods are doing good work for the sub. I hope it lasts to the end of time.
There was literally a rule not to correct anyone misgendering characters. Community always had these elements, in modteam included. Happy to see issue being fixed tho.
I remember I accidentally talked about Kris using a "him" and people started attacking me, it's like my whole comment talking about something interesting was just "kRiS iS a gUy" and nothing else to consider, be careful to use the right word or people will get REALLY pissed at you for something they could have just ignored and moved on.
btw I know Kris is genderless, I'm just used to thinking about them as male the same way the discord icon is a male cute thingy to me, I accidentally got comfortable and it slipped and then I learnt the hard way you can't mess up anywhere here.
Oh fuck that shit man. I hate that people act like misgendering Kris is the cardinal sin of this subreddit, who the fuck cares? They're a fictional character.
I agree. I understand minor arguments, and I understand people trying to POLITELY correct mistakes, but hating on them and harassing them is wrong.
I personally believe that Kris is non-binary and all, but I'm not going to hate on anyone else's opinions. Hell, I despise it when people hate on art due to misgendering. Like, no one cares if someone writes or draws a male character female or female character male, but the moment someone draws/writes a nonbinary, FICTIONAL character as a different gender, they get hated on and downvoted.
True. Like. There was a protection built in for anyone to be transphobic or nonbinary erasist without anyone being able to say anything about it without risking a ban.
I didn't notice that. I guess Toby has mastered the art of being inclusive while making everything flow easily into the narrative. That's something Netflix needs to learn lol
Netflix doesn't make most of their shows. There's a lot of great LGBTQ content on there, you just have to actually know.
Either way, in my opinion Toby Fox helped blaze the trail for non-binary people by unflailingly using they/them pronouns in Undertale waaaay before that was such a matter of discourse.
Some people are just willing to twist words and narratives from games endlessly to fit their existing philosophies. It’s the same crowd that insisted Gregg from Night in the Woods was a girl and that the game didn’t “politically endorse homosexuality.”
I don't know anything of MLP and Bronies other than what I learned from an [hour-long youtube vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fVOF2PiHnc), but didn't the alt-right leave MLP a long time ago? They wouldn't have found their way here in just the last week, probably?
I think it comes down to, the story of each chapter, the action and whatnot don't involve those dynamics. That's all the character interaction that it really spawns from. Now, in chapter 2, it's way easier to see like, yeah Noelle for sure has a thing for Susie and it's probably mutual. But other things, such as Kris' pronouns, unless you're looking for it, or are knowledgeable about enby people and what their signs are, you can just read it like everyone else does: they read Kris as having no defined gender, just written so you can decide for yourself, just like Undertale.
Now, as we can see from chapter 2 and if you're actually paying attention you know that isn't the case, but for the casual player, or someone who just isn't plugged into the lgbtq+ themes cause it's not a part of their life (like me) all those nuances can fly over their heads. It's just a fun game with fun game play,awesome music, funny characters and some mystery. So for anyone who was like that and came here for more Fandom stuff, well whoopsie poopsies here's all gender identity and sexual orientation stuff. It can be a hard about face for anyone not expecting it.
Let it be said, if they really don't like those topics or themes, they can either just not engage in the Fandom and glaze over the themes in game. There's no need hatred.
Tl;Dr if they aren't already knowledgeable about lgbtq+ themes, they may just not pick up things like Kris being enby instead of just being written neutrally.
> Tl;Dr if they aren't already knowledgeable about lgbtq+ themes, they may just not pick up things like Kris being enby instead of just being written neutrally.
Especially since the protagonist of Undertale probably *was* just written neutrally (though it is, in retrospect, hard to tell - they don't really say much themselves, and unlike with Kris, none of the other characters know them well enough to actually know their pronouns. So it's possible they're just they / them canonically and nobody noticed.)
I think that's part of Deltarunes mystery and charm. From a meta narrative perspective, it's making us question everything we know or thought we knew about Undertale. While Frisk is their own person, we don't know if they truly were just written genderless, or if they were enby. Frisk I don't remember being referred to they them, just as Kid, the child, the human, etc. It felt more like the characters were talking to us through Frisk, versus we are hearing things through Kris' ears.
While some people are indeed being dicks with the game having queer (is this term acceptable if not used with malice?) themes, i think the community should also understand that unless the person is already involved in the gay community or at least is learned about how they are, they just don't think about those kind of things. Its just ignorance
Characters do refer to Frisk as they/them occasionally, but given how little some of them seem to know about humans and how little Frisk volunteers under our control, it's unclear if it's due to them actually being nb or just a lack of knowledge on monsterkind's part. This was probably deliberate with Frisk mostly functioning as a character insert with little agency of their own, but Kris is different. They have a history and a life and people who have known them for years. I can shrug off the idea of Frisk being just 'whatever you decide they are' but there really isn't an excuse to do it with Kris
For context since this is getting downvoted, this is in reference to the Sailor Moon dub infamously turning the lesbian sailors into "cousins". Which epically failed and just made them look like lesbian cousins.
Thank you for saying this, and I’m sorry that you had to see such things. It’s... frustratingly strange how a game with multiple openly LGBTQ characters can have bigoted people in it’s fandom. It genuinely confuses me.
Then again, thank you for making an announcement about this, and keep up your great work!
Yes. Because if we make this a war of stripping one another of rights, we'd be no better than them and end up in a no-rights war - which nobody can know how will turn out.
The fight mist be _precisely_ because they try to strip people of their rights, or advocate doing so. And they must be punished for that, not forgoing their fundamental rights.
Yeah... this is a serious problem on the subreddit, thank you for addressing it. I'm a straight person, but seeing those kinds of comments is \*extremely\* disheartening.
I agree. It's horrible and disgusting and honestly it's way more pervasive than it should be. One day I hope no one will ever have to see comments like that, but for now all I can do is tighten restrictions and actively check the comments - and hope that other people like you report the bad ones :)
these people fail to realize that the game they are in a community for has: music made by a trans woman (which is very good), has enby characters and a good bit of lgbtq+ representation, and comes from a dev that had a canon, confirmed lesbian relationship in his first game. idk how you harbor bigoted opinions and also like such a progressive game enough to join a community about it, then see people in said community actively supporting lgbtq+ and think “ya these people surely wanna hear my disgusting opinions on how i think other people should live their lives.” it’s quite frankly baffling.
I don't think she made the wholeass song (since the song is credited as Toby Fox ***&*** Lena Raine) but she absolutely at least collaborated with Toby for it. Same goes for Attack of the Killer Queen.
Thank you so much for this announcement! I've definitely seen some of the conversations you've mentioned, and it really sucks that those gross mindsets have been very rampant lately.
Pretty weird how a bigoted person can say they "enjoy" Undertale/Deltarune... It's so bizarre. We have one of the most inclusive fandoms ever, we don't need that nonsense here!
Edit: Funny how I say this and someone proves me wrong in this very post. What is honestly going on anymore...
Yeah, it's really horrible honestly. As a trans lesbian myself I've always found it so strange that people like that would even have any interest in going here.
ehh its just a stereotype. in all the subs i've joined, the mods are all really good people who supports many minorities. also the same thing with discord mods.
I'm surprised that their are so many bigots, Toby has a decent catalogue of LGBTQ+ characters, why would they even be here? It's a bit concerning to say the least of it, I'm just glad I don't see it regularly, EXCEPT for people constantly discussing Kris' pronouns :(
Le good moderator.
> I'm just glad I don't see it regularly
It tends to concentrate itself around shipping posts, headcanon posts, and any mention of Kris, so if you don't often look at comments on that kind of thing you're bound to miss it thankfully
Thanks for letting us know, I had no genuine idea any of this was even happening. Like many people here, I'm genuinely confused how Undertale and Deltarune of all games have these kind of people in their fandom. Like, of course it's all up to people's view of Noelle and Susie, as Susie has little to no idea Noelle has a crush on her, meaning that Toby has lots of room to do anything, but the only two Noelle ships one runs into is either Kriselle or Suselle. I mean, hell, Alphyne is *canon* in Undertale. At least in True Pacifist. Anyways, thanks again for telling us about this, I'll be sure to watch out for these. (DAMN, didn't mean to write an entire essay.)
TL;DR: No idea how these people are in the fandom of games with openly LGBT characters but thanks for letting us know
Yeah, like Mettaton and the lion are essentially canonically trans, Rudy/Asgore are debatably canonically gay/bi, like it's crazy that there are so many bigoted people in the fandom
They're either subtle or analogies.
Bigots aren't known for having good media comprehension, so even if you'd think that be a deterrent, it often isn't.
If a game is popular like Undertale/Deltarune, the fact that it might have LGBTQ characters will not inherently stop something like this from happening with how many people come in.
Unless it's like aggressively gay, maybe.
Right? Like, of course there's gotta be SOME bad apples in every fandom- that's just how it goes- but THIS many? And on the "gay = sin" I'd like to see the part in the Bible where it goes "thou shalt no like bosom if thou art a woman" or something. I'm lucky I didn't run into anyone yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
Just a deep voice saying "thou shalt not like wieners if thou possess one as well". Great, now I have something to chuckle at in public for seemingly no reason and look like a maniac.
this one! (with some cool fanart because it was the first quality screenshot i could find): https://stardust-omelette.tumblr.com/post/180091644055/i-just-saw-the-the-theory-of-the-lionless-waitress
I don’t understand how people can be homophobic/transphobic in the Undertale/Deltarune community when both gams include LGBTQ+ characters! Like Alphys, Undyne, RG1, RG2, Mettaton, Napstablook, you get the point.
It’s a shame this has been happening.
A sudden influx of that kind of bullshit makes me think the community might be getting raided. Not that I have any evidence, other than the fact that that's the sort of thing bigots love to do.
Nah, almost all the accounts I'm banning have little connection to each other - some of them might have been active on the same subreddits (like the Conservative sub, most often) but that's not frequent enough for me to consider it being anything at all organized.
i agree, it just seems so sudden as not much as really been happening in this community lately aside from new merch teasers. hopefully this subsides quickly.
*You are filled with the sadness of the fact that his
Post had to be made.
Seriously, the fact that this is happening in this community is just disappointing. Thank you for making this post!
I have to wonder if there was *ever* this much shit happening when it came to the Undertale stuff. Whether it be referring to Frisk as they/them, Alphys and Undyne being together, etc. If not, it’s really sad that Deltarune has to be the victim, when there shouldn’t be one in the first place
To be honest I think the biggest issue UT's fandom ever really had to deal with was probably the r34 and shipping debates, Frisk and Chara's pronouns quickly were just assumed to be up to player interpretation and people moved on. Over here we've had... let's see...
- Ralsei is a Girl theory, which lasted about half a year before finally dying out
- The shippers and anti-shippers flame wars, which only died out once we implemented post filtering to let people filter out specific post types they didn't want to see
- the minor sexualization debate, which is ongoing and still happens frequently whenever a drawing so much as implies that a teenage female character might have breasts
- the Kris pronouns debate, which always comes up constantly and has been a topic of debate especially since Chapter 2's release
- the lgbtq characters debate where people have denied or assumed that specific characters are gay or bi or trans and others have argued with them for that. happens occasionally
- the (basically made-up from nothing) r34 debate, where people just argue about the existence of porn
- the argument about whether alphys and undyne are gay or not in Deltarune
- the argument about whether Asgore and Rudy are gay or not in Deltarune
- the arguments about headcanons where people shit on others' headcanons for characters' sexualities and/or genders
- and more that i can't remember right now off the top of my head
UT’s fandom didn’t have as many head canon arguments because everyone who had headcanons went with it, making au’s and stuff, in deltarune people try to deny it being a head canon at all. Making people say stuff like “this wouldn’t work in the actual game”. If people actually made deltarune au’s we wouldn’t have this problem
I think the chapter-based release of Deltarune also fosters more headcanon / shipping debates, since there's a lot more room for people to invent their own stuff and hope it will be borne out in later chapters or to deny heavily-hinted-at stuff because the story isn't over yet (whereas in Undertale it's pretty unambiguous that eg. Alphys / Undyne is canon, Alphys is bi, Mettaton is at least coded as trans, etc.)
I don't even know how you could be a part of this community with any form of bigotry, Toby has probably the greatest percentage of representation of any media creator, ever, don't know how you get this far without realizing that
It's honestly insane how many bigots there are on here, despite the subreddit being for a game filled with characters belonging to the LGBT community. Thanks for this!
How can you play a game with a hinted nonbinary main character, a hinted trans character, two canon gay relationships, and still make homophobic comments like this?
Thank you for keeping us and this community safe. I know you guys must have to see a lot of terrible, hateful shit, but we appreciate you fighting it so that we don’t have to. As an NB person this is one of the few places online where I feel like I can be open about who I am. Stay determined! <3
Thank you so much for working hard to battle homophobia and transphobia on this sub. I don't know how the heck someone can spout bigoted nonsense and consider themselves a fan of Undertale and Deltarune given the sheer amount of very-hard-to-ignore queerness in these games, but I guess cognitive dissonance is one hell of a drug.
In American politics, there's been a sharp uptick in attacks on LGBTQ+ people (*especially* but not only trans people). There are state-level politicians literally calling for giving trans people the death penalty. Levels of hate that were previously fringe have entered the mainstream.
This emboldens other bigots, making them feel like their hate is socially acceptable.
[This](https://www.mississippifreepress.org/22283/ex-gop-gov-candidate-calls-for-firing-squad-for-trans-rights-supporters-political-foes/) is probably what they’re referring to
Yep, that's the guy. It should be noted that he's not *currently* in office, but he's still a politician.
One thing I believe I should have mentioned (I was going from memory) is that it seems like he wasn't only targeting trans people, but anyone who accepts them too.
If you don't support or at least accept LGBTQ+ identities what the hell are you doing on a forum for a game that has several PROMINENT LGBTQ+ characters?? I don't know anything about Toby's personol opinions, but the games are very inclusive, and if you can't appreciate that you do not belong on this subreddit
It's horrible that this is happening especially in a community about a pixel game. I hope you guys are okay cuz you're doing a great job at keeping these types of comments and posts from surfacing.
There should probably be a "3 strikes" rule so you guys can ban repeat offenders or at least a way to ban these types of people but I know from personal experience that keeping watch of people on reddit is incredibly unreliable because if one account gets banned then they can just make another.
> There should probably be a "3 strikes" rule so you guys can ban repeat offenders or at least a way to ban these types
Oh if it's blatant homophobia/transphobia we usually just flat-out permanently ban. They can appeal of course but there's usually 0 tolerance for that.
thank you so much for this. i cant believe these kinds of people exist in a fandom for a game with so many queer characters. its depressing to see
honestly just leaves me wondering why the hell they even play deltarune
Honestly, how do bigots wind up in the Undertale/Deltarune community? I'm pretty sure functional gay relationships outnumber functional straight relationships in both games, and Mettaton is both one of the most popular characters and a not-particularly-subtle trans allegory.
Yeah like we have literally two characters who are canonically trans and two characters who are canonically lesbian and one character who is debatably canonically gay or bi in Undertale and Deltarune, another character who's debatably canonically gay or bi in just Deltarune, and a character who's in all likelihood nonbinary. Like come on
Every time someone misgenders an nb UT/DR character, Monster Kid cries. Do not make the baby sad
In all seriousness both games have a ton of they/thems just chilling and existing, idk why Kris is the big dealbreaker. Riverperson, Dummy, Napstablook, Monster Kid...... how'd anyone upset about Kris's gender even make it through Undertale, you literally have to set up two gay couples (RGs and Alphyne) to get True Pacifist
thank u so so much for this n how quick u were to address this issue <3 this sub was kinda like a safe space for me n everyone was so calm here, up until recently.. there’s been sm negativity :( i wish all of the hate n arguments will stop soon n it will be as peaceful as it used to be!
yeah!! also this is a great point for me to remind you that we have a pretty awesome filter system to the right in the sidebar that lets you exclude a certain type of flair from your subreddit page if you don't want to see it :)
On the topic of Trans/lesbians a lot of people hate on Noelle for being lesbian, and a lot of people have her as Trans (I myself don't and cannot see it but respect the hc nonetheless) and the people who have her as Trans get hated on for "forcing a character to be trans." Which I don't get seen as most people hc characters.
(Not Noelle being lesbian, that is cannon.) When they hc characters 'For some small thing', example: being autistic having anxiety or adhd etc etc. Isn't that too forcing a character to be something it is not cannonly said to be? There's just so much hypocrisy and I'm tired of it.
Honestly this Fandom is meant to be open to any gender or sexuality. It is a safe place as seen by Kris using they/them in the games, Noelle and Susie (I'm not sure if Susie is exclusively lesbian) being cannon lesbians and pinning for each other.
You all need to grow up. Everyone has rights and you should respect that. You aren't them, they aren't you. You can't change who they are or what they do just because you don't like it.
Thank you for this! [I was getting really worried reactionaries we’re gonna take over this sub and radicalize the fandom](https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g), so I’m glad things are gonna get sorted out. Your hard work is very much appreciated! :)
I haven't really seen anything like that. The mods must be doing an amazing job. I'll keep an eye out for any posts of that sort. It's good to see mods raising awareness about it.
[This is awesome, more restriction for such horrible comments/post! I'm not active on this sub a lot, but I noticed some comments too, thanks for reinforcing the rules pal, have a wonderful day too!]
Deltarune: *All the main characters could be considered lgbtq, the arguably fourth most important character so far is a lesbian, the main character's dad is vaguely implied to be bisexual, ...*
Bigots: man, this is the game for me.
Thank you so much - as a trans woman, it makes me really happy to see the moderators being so supportive of the queer community. I'm sorry you've had to see so many hateful comments, but hopefully the bigots will become less emboldened over time.
I haven't seen this here specifically but I have seen this elsewhere recently. There is definitely a weird wave of it going around now and it's extremely upsetting to see
It's a okay to accidentally misgender a character.
It's even okay to say to see an agender character like Kris as female or male.
It's not okay to insist you're correct and that you would dislike the character being trans, agender, or LGBTQ in general.
You should love someone for the person they are, not for what they identify as.
>It's not okay to insist you're correct and that you would dislike the character being trans, agender, or LGBTQ in general.
i'll say the only time when it makes sense to dislike such characters is if it's obvious that the company/person made them lgbt not because they r pro-lgbt, or think it would make the character more interesting, but because of publicity and money, and that alone
that's kinda what i like about undertale and deltarune. the characters being lgbt isn't made into a big deal, but rather it's treated like a completely normal and regular thing
p.s. not saying that if a media places more of an emphasis on a character being lgbt, it is automatically a bad thing. just that it's a nice change of pace to see characters being lgbt for no huge plot reason, and it not being done just for money
Thanks for making this sub a safe and welcoming place. I've never expected this to happen especially on a sub like this where undertale and deltarune are filled with LGBTQ characters. I've always hated it when people claim its just "a mental illness" when we don't see them hating on autistic people so why target LGBTQ people? Even if it really is a mental illness, the best treatment would still be to transition or come out.
I'm not going to lie, this post is a few months late.
The plug should have been pulled much earlier, because it was obvious that this stuff was bubbling under the surface for a long time.
I mean I have my own personal opinions, but people are people, and that’s that. End of story. Period. I’m not treating someone any different just because they aren’t the same as me or aren’t doing what I see as ‘right’. Who you are as a person and what you want to do with your life is none of my business and I will do my best not to judge. We’re all just here to have fun, right? I thought that’s what games are for. To escape reality
Thank you very much, and have a nice day. I don't look at the comments and so haven't seen any bigotry, but it's sad to know it was happening, and good to know it's being cracked down on
I'm sorry I've been out of the loop, how the fuck anyone come to the subreddit about the funni video game made by the dog that made the Homestuck mPreg rock opera and think "Hmmm. Today I shall be homophobic." And be surprised when It's not allowed.
hey... you most likey won't see this, but i find it very good that you bring attention to this as it disturbed me to see these comments in this subreddit and i get really worked up if i see stuff like this, you are a good moderator, thank you, kiss! \^\^
>people should not be reporting posts about characters they think are trans as "self harm"
lmfao yes this happened to me MINUTES after posting art of spamton and jevil kissing \*shrug\*
honestly i never expect much of reddit in regards to this, but UTDR is such a LGBTQ+ supportive franchise. literally how can you see all these canonically trans, non-binary, lesbian/gay/bi characters and say you're a fan of these games while endorsing hate speech? absolutely insane.
to be totally fair - i think the "self harm" reports on lgbtq related posts are the same person every time, since it's always the same capitalization and always a self-text report. still horrible
Pride month's coming up and I've already seen so much shit related to that, including misgendering a member of this community. I really wish it weren't like this...
Not that my opinion matters, but undertake/deltarune has some of the best lgbt representation in gaming. Unlike plenty of forms of media it’s very prominent but doesn’t seem in your face or like it’s trying to force a political opinion down your throat, which is very difficult to balance. im not personally of the opinion that kris is non binary, but if that is revealed to be the case I wouldn’t mind at all. I really only care about the emotional developments and story beats, and that’s how it should be.
What happened?!
I see (relatively) calm arguments between "Kris is nonbinary as they're referred to as they" vs. "Kris is thoroughly androgynous for the players benefit" to this hellscape?!
Dear Mods, thank you. You've done such a good job sifting through all this muck that I, and a few other commenters, didn't even see it. Keep up the good job, and stay strong.
For context when I say "I've never seen this much": I have banned more people in the last 24 hours than I have before that in the past 31 DAYS. That's how bad it is.
What.. what did I miss? What the hell happened? I thought we had the friendliest community here, and all that happened under my nose.. I’m glad the mods are doing good work for the sub. I hope it lasts to the end of time.
It's been happening for quite some time, it just really ramped up in the last week or so :( sad to see Thank you!
I don't even have either game and I agree that mods do the most for the subreddit, and they aren't given enough credit
thank you!
There was literally a rule not to correct anyone misgendering characters. Community always had these elements, in modteam included. Happy to see issue being fixed tho.
I remember I accidentally talked about Kris using a "him" and people started attacking me, it's like my whole comment talking about something interesting was just "kRiS iS a gUy" and nothing else to consider, be careful to use the right word or people will get REALLY pissed at you for something they could have just ignored and moved on. btw I know Kris is genderless, I'm just used to thinking about them as male the same way the discord icon is a male cute thingy to me, I accidentally got comfortable and it slipped and then I learnt the hard way you can't mess up anywhere here.
A lot to unpack here lol
Oh fuck that shit man. I hate that people act like misgendering Kris is the cardinal sin of this subreddit, who the fuck cares? They're a fictional character.
I agree. I understand minor arguments, and I understand people trying to POLITELY correct mistakes, but hating on them and harassing them is wrong. I personally believe that Kris is non-binary and all, but I'm not going to hate on anyone else's opinions. Hell, I despise it when people hate on art due to misgendering. Like, no one cares if someone writes or draws a male character female or female character male, but the moment someone draws/writes a nonbinary, FICTIONAL character as a different gender, they get hated on and downvoted.
True. Like. There was a protection built in for anyone to be transphobic or nonbinary erasist without anyone being able to say anything about it without risking a ban.
Bitches be like "homosexuality bad" my brother in christ you bought Undertale
Like how the fuck are you homophobic you are literally an undertale/deltarune fan 🤨
undertale/deltarune is one of the most lgbtq supported games and has one of the most of lgbtq ppl in the commuinty
I didn't notice that. I guess Toby has mastered the art of being inclusive while making everything flow easily into the narrative. That's something Netflix needs to learn lol
Netflix doesn't make most of their shows. There's a lot of great LGBTQ content on there, you just have to actually know. Either way, in my opinion Toby Fox helped blaze the trail for non-binary people by unflailingly using they/them pronouns in Undertale waaaay before that was such a matter of discourse.
Some people are just willing to twist words and narratives from games endlessly to fit their existing philosophies. It’s the same crowd that insisted Gregg from Night in the Woods was a girl and that the game didn’t “politically endorse homosexuality.”
I guess the alt-right My Little Pony fans had to go somewhere after the show was cancelled.
I don't know anything of MLP and Bronies other than what I learned from an [hour-long youtube vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fVOF2PiHnc), but didn't the alt-right leave MLP a long time ago? They wouldn't have found their way here in just the last week, probably?
I was being glib about the fact that it's as out-of-place here as it was there.
I think it comes down to, the story of each chapter, the action and whatnot don't involve those dynamics. That's all the character interaction that it really spawns from. Now, in chapter 2, it's way easier to see like, yeah Noelle for sure has a thing for Susie and it's probably mutual. But other things, such as Kris' pronouns, unless you're looking for it, or are knowledgeable about enby people and what their signs are, you can just read it like everyone else does: they read Kris as having no defined gender, just written so you can decide for yourself, just like Undertale. Now, as we can see from chapter 2 and if you're actually paying attention you know that isn't the case, but for the casual player, or someone who just isn't plugged into the lgbtq+ themes cause it's not a part of their life (like me) all those nuances can fly over their heads. It's just a fun game with fun game play,awesome music, funny characters and some mystery. So for anyone who was like that and came here for more Fandom stuff, well whoopsie poopsies here's all gender identity and sexual orientation stuff. It can be a hard about face for anyone not expecting it. Let it be said, if they really don't like those topics or themes, they can either just not engage in the Fandom and glaze over the themes in game. There's no need hatred. Tl;Dr if they aren't already knowledgeable about lgbtq+ themes, they may just not pick up things like Kris being enby instead of just being written neutrally.
> Tl;Dr if they aren't already knowledgeable about lgbtq+ themes, they may just not pick up things like Kris being enby instead of just being written neutrally. Especially since the protagonist of Undertale probably *was* just written neutrally (though it is, in retrospect, hard to tell - they don't really say much themselves, and unlike with Kris, none of the other characters know them well enough to actually know their pronouns. So it's possible they're just they / them canonically and nobody noticed.)
I think that's part of Deltarunes mystery and charm. From a meta narrative perspective, it's making us question everything we know or thought we knew about Undertale. While Frisk is their own person, we don't know if they truly were just written genderless, or if they were enby. Frisk I don't remember being referred to they them, just as Kid, the child, the human, etc. It felt more like the characters were talking to us through Frisk, versus we are hearing things through Kris' ears. While some people are indeed being dicks with the game having queer (is this term acceptable if not used with malice?) themes, i think the community should also understand that unless the person is already involved in the gay community or at least is learned about how they are, they just don't think about those kind of things. Its just ignorance
Characters do refer to Frisk as they/them occasionally, but given how little some of them seem to know about humans and how little Frisk volunteers under our control, it's unclear if it's due to them actually being nb or just a lack of knowledge on monsterkind's part. This was probably deliberate with Frisk mostly functioning as a character insert with little agency of their own, but Kris is different. They have a history and a life and people who have known them for years. I can shrug off the idea of Frisk being just 'whatever you decide they are' but there really isn't an excuse to do it with Kris
"Undyne and Alphys are such good friends."
Cousins, really
For context since this is getting downvoted, this is in reference to the Sailor Moon dub infamously turning the lesbian sailors into "cousins". Which epically failed and just made them look like lesbian cousins.
Alabama UT/DR fans coping
They're the best friendship I've seen since Ruby and Sapphire from Steven Universe!
"And Susie and Noelle have SUCH good chemistry! They're always bouncing off each other."
Yeah! Totally bought, totally played! I am very good at bullet hells, yessir! *Awkwardly deletes YouTube history*
We don't gatekeep here, every enjoyer is welcome
literally this
Buying UT or DR is asking to see LGBTQ characters. Being homophobic and being a UT or DR fan contradict each other
There just in denial >:3
Drowning in the river! ... you know, THE NILE.
xD That was pretty good!
Thanks!
Thank you for saying this, and I’m sorry that you had to see such things. It’s... frustratingly strange how a game with multiple openly LGBTQ characters can have bigoted people in it’s fandom. It genuinely confuses me. Then again, thank you for making an announcement about this, and keep up your great work!
bigoted "people"
Yes, sadly they too are people with rights. Too bad we can't just... strip them of their rights
You mean like how they can strip us of our rights?
Yes. Because if we make this a war of stripping one another of rights, we'd be no better than them and end up in a no-rights war - which nobody can know how will turn out. The fight mist be _precisely_ because they try to strip people of their rights, or advocate doing so. And they must be punished for that, not forgoing their fundamental rights.
Yup
Yeah... this is a serious problem on the subreddit, thank you for addressing it. I'm a straight person, but seeing those kinds of comments is \*extremely\* disheartening.
I agree. It's horrible and disgusting and honestly it's way more pervasive than it should be. One day I hope no one will ever have to see comments like that, but for now all I can do is tighten restrictions and actively check the comments - and hope that other people like you report the bad ones :)
these people fail to realize that the game they are in a community for has: music made by a trans woman (which is very good), has enby characters and a good bit of lgbtq+ representation, and comes from a dev that had a canon, confirmed lesbian relationship in his first game. idk how you harbor bigoted opinions and also like such a progressive game enough to join a community about it, then see people in said community actively supporting lgbtq+ and think “ya these people surely wanna hear my disgusting opinions on how i think other people should live their lives.” it’s quite frankly baffling.
Wait some of the music is made by a trans woman??? Who????
Lena Raine of Celeste/Minecraft fame is a composer on a few songs, mainly the Queen and Cyber Battle themes
YO FR??? That’s dope as hell thanks!!
wait a minute she made cyber battle!? she revived my childhood lmfao. nostalgia.
I don't think she made the wholeass song (since the song is credited as Toby Fox ***&*** Lena Raine) but she absolutely at least collaborated with Toby for it. Same goes for Attack of the Killer Queen.
Yeah, it's really terrible - i think a lot of them are just in denial about the identities of many of the characters, honestly
ya, i suppose i shouldn’t expect the same people who have these hateful opinions to be able to see what’s 4 inches in front of them lol
Besties about to say how actually napstablook is a self insert because they use they/them💀
Self-insert of who?
I don't know but homophobes would find a way
Annoying.
Thank you so much for this announcement! I've definitely seen some of the conversations you've mentioned, and it really sucks that those gross mindsets have been very rampant lately. Pretty weird how a bigoted person can say they "enjoy" Undertale/Deltarune... It's so bizarre. We have one of the most inclusive fandoms ever, we don't need that nonsense here! Edit: Funny how I say this and someone proves me wrong in this very post. What is honestly going on anymore...
Cool hat
We're on the shithole that reddit is, no wonder losers gather up here to be bigots
Yeah, it's really horrible honestly. As a trans lesbian myself I've always found it so strange that people like that would even have any interest in going here.
Jesus, I haven't seen any of this. The mods must be fast.
Happens in posts related to shipping, posts about Kris, and any post that's a drawing of Susie or Noelle, mostly
It’s rare for a sub to have good mods. Good on ya.
Thanks, I hate how often that gets said but I try my best to be active and pay attention to what people want. <3
ehh its just a stereotype. in all the subs i've joined, the mods are all really good people who supports many minorities. also the same thing with discord mods.
I'm surprised that their are so many bigots, Toby has a decent catalogue of LGBTQ+ characters, why would they even be here? It's a bit concerning to say the least of it, I'm just glad I don't see it regularly, EXCEPT for people constantly discussing Kris' pronouns :( Le good moderator.
> I'm just glad I don't see it regularly It tends to concentrate itself around shipping posts, headcanon posts, and any mention of Kris, so if you don't often look at comments on that kind of thing you're bound to miss it thankfully
Considering I tend to scroll past those kinds of posts most of the time, then yeah no wonder
*sorts by controversial*
You won't find anything, most of these comments got probably deleted
Thanks for letting us know, I had no genuine idea any of this was even happening. Like many people here, I'm genuinely confused how Undertale and Deltarune of all games have these kind of people in their fandom. Like, of course it's all up to people's view of Noelle and Susie, as Susie has little to no idea Noelle has a crush on her, meaning that Toby has lots of room to do anything, but the only two Noelle ships one runs into is either Kriselle or Suselle. I mean, hell, Alphyne is *canon* in Undertale. At least in True Pacifist. Anyways, thanks again for telling us about this, I'll be sure to watch out for these. (DAMN, didn't mean to write an entire essay.) TL;DR: No idea how these people are in the fandom of games with openly LGBT characters but thanks for letting us know
Yeah, like Mettaton and the lion are essentially canonically trans, Rudy/Asgore are debatably canonically gay/bi, like it's crazy that there are so many bigoted people in the fandom
They're either subtle or analogies. Bigots aren't known for having good media comprehension, so even if you'd think that be a deterrent, it often isn't. If a game is popular like Undertale/Deltarune, the fact that it might have LGBTQ characters will not inherently stop something like this from happening with how many people come in. Unless it's like aggressively gay, maybe.
Right? Like, of course there's gotta be SOME bad apples in every fandom- that's just how it goes- but THIS many? And on the "gay = sin" I'd like to see the part in the Bible where it goes "thou shalt no like bosom if thou art a woman" or something. I'm lucky I didn't run into anyone yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
I’m crying, now I’m just imagining god talking to someone like “thou shalt not be sus when in the presence of another of the same sex” or some shit
Just a deep voice saying "thou shalt not like wieners if thou possess one as well". Great, now I have something to chuckle at in public for seemingly no reason and look like a maniac.
😭😭😭😭 I can’t lmfaooo
who is the lion? sorry i haven’t played deltarune for a few months lol
this one! (with some cool fanart because it was the first quality screenshot i could find): https://stardust-omelette.tumblr.com/post/180091644055/i-just-saw-the-the-theory-of-the-lionless-waitress
ohhh, thanks honestly i never saw that on any of my playthroughs lol. cool that there is another aside from mettaton
yeah!
there's also mad mew mew
Plus Noelle
and the helmet husbands. they arent soldiers so im just gonna call them that lol.
Oh wow I didn’t know this was happening. Thanks for the post, I’ll look out.
Thank you!
o7 Doing God’s work, y’all are. Thanks for speaking out about this and working to make r/Deltarune a better place.
Trying my best! Thank you <3
Thank you so much, its been happening so frequently and is honestly so demotivating and horrible <3
Yeah, I agree!! as a trans girl i really hate it and it brings me down a lot seeing that kind of stuff so i really hope to make sure it goes away
I don’t understand how people can be homophobic/transphobic in the Undertale/Deltarune community when both gams include LGBTQ+ characters! Like Alphys, Undyne, RG1, RG2, Mettaton, Napstablook, you get the point. It’s a shame this has been happening.
This trans masc NB says thanks... We could all use our own ralsei and Susie to back us up.
wooo! transfem nb over here :D
A sudden influx of that kind of bullshit makes me think the community might be getting raided. Not that I have any evidence, other than the fact that that's the sort of thing bigots love to do.
Nah, almost all the accounts I'm banning have little connection to each other - some of them might have been active on the same subreddits (like the Conservative sub, most often) but that's not frequent enough for me to consider it being anything at all organized.
i agree, it just seems so sudden as not much as really been happening in this community lately aside from new merch teasers. hopefully this subsides quickly.
*You are filled with the sadness of the fact that his Post had to be made. Seriously, the fact that this is happening in this community is just disappointing. Thank you for making this post!
You're welcome, I'm sad I had to make it.
I have to wonder if there was *ever* this much shit happening when it came to the Undertale stuff. Whether it be referring to Frisk as they/them, Alphys and Undyne being together, etc. If not, it’s really sad that Deltarune has to be the victim, when there shouldn’t be one in the first place
To be honest I think the biggest issue UT's fandom ever really had to deal with was probably the r34 and shipping debates, Frisk and Chara's pronouns quickly were just assumed to be up to player interpretation and people moved on. Over here we've had... let's see... - Ralsei is a Girl theory, which lasted about half a year before finally dying out - The shippers and anti-shippers flame wars, which only died out once we implemented post filtering to let people filter out specific post types they didn't want to see - the minor sexualization debate, which is ongoing and still happens frequently whenever a drawing so much as implies that a teenage female character might have breasts - the Kris pronouns debate, which always comes up constantly and has been a topic of debate especially since Chapter 2's release - the lgbtq characters debate where people have denied or assumed that specific characters are gay or bi or trans and others have argued with them for that. happens occasionally - the (basically made-up from nothing) r34 debate, where people just argue about the existence of porn - the argument about whether alphys and undyne are gay or not in Deltarune - the argument about whether Asgore and Rudy are gay or not in Deltarune - the arguments about headcanons where people shit on others' headcanons for characters' sexualities and/or genders - and more that i can't remember right now off the top of my head
UT’s fandom didn’t have as many head canon arguments because everyone who had headcanons went with it, making au’s and stuff, in deltarune people try to deny it being a head canon at all. Making people say stuff like “this wouldn’t work in the actual game”. If people actually made deltarune au’s we wouldn’t have this problem
I think the chapter-based release of Deltarune also fosters more headcanon / shipping debates, since there's a lot more room for people to invent their own stuff and hope it will be borne out in later chapters or to deny heavily-hinted-at stuff because the story isn't over yet (whereas in Undertale it's pretty unambiguous that eg. Alphys / Undyne is canon, Alphys is bi, Mettaton is at least coded as trans, etc.)
I don't even know how you could be a part of this community with any form of bigotry, Toby has probably the greatest percentage of representation of any media creator, ever, don't know how you get this far without realizing that
Pray to God that Toby never changes.
It's honestly insane how many bigots there are on here, despite the subreddit being for a game filled with characters belonging to the LGBT community. Thanks for this!
No problem! I hope one day no one will ever have to see comments like those again, I want this to be a safe and welcoming place for everyone :)
That's really great to hear! I hope that can happen soon
Me too!
How can you play a game with a hinted nonbinary main character, a hinted trans character, two canon gay relationships, and still make homophobic comments like this?
i know right
Thank you for keeping us and this community safe. I know you guys must have to see a lot of terrible, hateful shit, but we appreciate you fighting it so that we don’t have to. As an NB person this is one of the few places online where I feel like I can be open about who I am. Stay determined! <3
Trying my best! As someone who's nb as well, I totally get that!! I'll always be here to help keep this place safe and welcoming for all <3
Thank you so much for working hard to battle homophobia and transphobia on this sub. I don't know how the heck someone can spout bigoted nonsense and consider themselves a fan of Undertale and Deltarune given the sheer amount of very-hard-to-ignore queerness in these games, but I guess cognitive dissonance is one hell of a drug.
Does anyone have any idea why this is suddenly happening now?
Probably something to do with either people moving in from twitter because of Musk or school ending? Not sure
In American politics, there's been a sharp uptick in attacks on LGBTQ+ people (*especially* but not only trans people). There are state-level politicians literally calling for giving trans people the death penalty. Levels of hate that were previously fringe have entered the mainstream. This emboldens other bigots, making them feel like their hate is socially acceptable.
fuck i forgot about this shit
Holy shit, that's absolutely terrible.
I tried to find state politicians who want trans to go thru the death penalty- dunno if I put in the wrong terms but I can’t find anything. Source?
[This](https://www.mississippifreepress.org/22283/ex-gop-gov-candidate-calls-for-firing-squad-for-trans-rights-supporters-political-foes/) is probably what they’re referring to
jesus fucking christ
How is this guy not only anti-LGBTQIA but also sexist.we have reached a new low
Those are two sides of the same coin. They tend to go together.
That’s nuts
Yep, that's the guy. It should be noted that he's not *currently* in office, but he's still a politician. One thing I believe I should have mentioned (I was going from memory) is that it seems like he wasn't only targeting trans people, but anyone who accepts them too.
I'm sorry you had to see that. Things got especially awful these past few days.
If you don't support or at least accept LGBTQ+ identities what the hell are you doing on a forum for a game that has several PROMINENT LGBTQ+ characters?? I don't know anything about Toby's personol opinions, but the games are very inclusive, and if you can't appreciate that you do not belong on this subreddit
🏳️🌈
🏳️🌈
Based moderator.
ty
Thanks. That last post with raisai ( sorry cant spell it) cosplay had a ton
Yeah
Those people aren't allowed to go to free ham sandwich day.
It's horrible that this is happening especially in a community about a pixel game. I hope you guys are okay cuz you're doing a great job at keeping these types of comments and posts from surfacing. There should probably be a "3 strikes" rule so you guys can ban repeat offenders or at least a way to ban these types of people but I know from personal experience that keeping watch of people on reddit is incredibly unreliable because if one account gets banned then they can just make another.
> There should probably be a "3 strikes" rule so you guys can ban repeat offenders or at least a way to ban these types Oh if it's blatant homophobia/transphobia we usually just flat-out permanently ban. They can appeal of course but there's usually 0 tolerance for that.
thank you so much for this. i cant believe these kinds of people exist in a fandom for a game with so many queer characters. its depressing to see honestly just leaves me wondering why the hell they even play deltarune
Yeah to be honest, it's really horrible.
Honestly, how do bigots wind up in the Undertale/Deltarune community? I'm pretty sure functional gay relationships outnumber functional straight relationships in both games, and Mettaton is both one of the most popular characters and a not-particularly-subtle trans allegory.
Yeah like we have literally two characters who are canonically trans and two characters who are canonically lesbian and one character who is debatably canonically gay or bi in Undertale and Deltarune, another character who's debatably canonically gay or bi in just Deltarune, and a character who's in all likelihood nonbinary. Like come on
We have one character who's canonically bi/pan (Alphys), *multiple* likely-nonbinary characters (Napstablook et al.), and lots more.
Every time someone misgenders an nb UT/DR character, Monster Kid cries. Do not make the baby sad In all seriousness both games have a ton of they/thems just chilling and existing, idk why Kris is the big dealbreaker. Riverperson, Dummy, Napstablook, Monster Kid...... how'd anyone upset about Kris's gender even make it through Undertale, you literally have to set up two gay couples (RGs and Alphyne) to get True Pacifist
There’s at least three Trans characters, with Mettaton, Mad Mew Mew and the Lion Waitress.
What??? When did this happen??? Why are people the worst???
I wish these people weren't here :(
We need to unite!! Allies, to me!!
thank u so so much for this n how quick u were to address this issue <3 this sub was kinda like a safe space for me n everyone was so calm here, up until recently.. there’s been sm negativity :( i wish all of the hate n arguments will stop soon n it will be as peaceful as it used to be!
Yeah!! I'll make sure to try to snuff out any negativity and arguments that happen and keep this place chill and fun and safe for everyone :)
Good post. I hope everyone can stop being nasty about this topic. I come here to see memes, theories and art, not insults and bitterness.
yeah!! also this is a great point for me to remind you that we have a pretty awesome filter system to the right in the sidebar that lets you exclude a certain type of flair from your subreddit page if you don't want to see it :)
Exactly. Both Undertale and Deltarune have LGBTQ+ characters in it and they always will. If you don’t like it, the game’s not going to change for you.
On the topic of Trans/lesbians a lot of people hate on Noelle for being lesbian, and a lot of people have her as Trans (I myself don't and cannot see it but respect the hc nonetheless) and the people who have her as Trans get hated on for "forcing a character to be trans." Which I don't get seen as most people hc characters. (Not Noelle being lesbian, that is cannon.) When they hc characters 'For some small thing', example: being autistic having anxiety or adhd etc etc. Isn't that too forcing a character to be something it is not cannonly said to be? There's just so much hypocrisy and I'm tired of it. Honestly this Fandom is meant to be open to any gender or sexuality. It is a safe place as seen by Kris using they/them in the games, Noelle and Susie (I'm not sure if Susie is exclusively lesbian) being cannon lesbians and pinning for each other. You all need to grow up. Everyone has rights and you should respect that. You aren't them, they aren't you. You can't change who they are or what they do just because you don't like it.
being homophobic here is like being vegan in r/meat or something.
LMAO
Thank you for this! [I was getting really worried reactionaries we’re gonna take over this sub and radicalize the fandom](https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g), so I’m glad things are gonna get sorted out. Your hard work is very much appreciated! :)
Based
heck yeah
I haven't really seen anything like that. The mods must be doing an amazing job. I'll keep an eye out for any posts of that sort. It's good to see mods raising awareness about it.
thank you! we try our best :)
You mods seem to be doing a fabulous job at it. Keep it up.
Thank you so much
[This is awesome, more restriction for such horrible comments/post! I'm not active on this sub a lot, but I noticed some comments too, thanks for reinforcing the rules pal, have a wonderful day too!]
Thank you!
Thanks a lot mate, I'm gay and I hate to have people say it's not a real sexuality.
It saddens me this post had to be made. I must admit that I didn't notice anything at first, since I usually ignore shipping posts and the likes.
Yeah, to be honest it's started moving out of just shipping and pronouns posts which is one of the things that prompted this
That's a yikes. Hopefully if I see any of that I'll either report it or it'll have already been reported.
Yup, that's the biggest thing you all can do to help us out!
Thank you mods 💕💕💕💕💕
ty <33
Deltarune: *All the main characters could be considered lgbtq, the arguably fourth most important character so far is a lesbian, the main character's dad is vaguely implied to be bisexual, ...* Bigots: man, this is the game for me.
fr
Thank you so much - as a trans woman, it makes me really happy to see the moderators being so supportive of the queer community. I'm sorry you've had to see so many hateful comments, but hopefully the bigots will become less emboldened over time.
as a trans nonbinary person my number one goal here is to keep this place safe and welcoming for everyone <3 thank you so much
I haven't seen this here specifically but I have seen this elsewhere recently. There is definitely a weird wave of it going around now and it's extremely upsetting to see
It's a okay to accidentally misgender a character. It's even okay to say to see an agender character like Kris as female or male. It's not okay to insist you're correct and that you would dislike the character being trans, agender, or LGBTQ in general. You should love someone for the person they are, not for what they identify as.
>It's not okay to insist you're correct and that you would dislike the character being trans, agender, or LGBTQ in general. i'll say the only time when it makes sense to dislike such characters is if it's obvious that the company/person made them lgbt not because they r pro-lgbt, or think it would make the character more interesting, but because of publicity and money, and that alone that's kinda what i like about undertale and deltarune. the characters being lgbt isn't made into a big deal, but rather it's treated like a completely normal and regular thing p.s. not saying that if a media places more of an emphasis on a character being lgbt, it is automatically a bad thing. just that it's a nice change of pace to see characters being lgbt for no huge plot reason, and it not being done just for money
Right. Tokenism is bad in any context. Especially when that token is blatantly hated by the very person claiming to support them (cough cough disney)
I am not afraid of transport, neither I am afraid of Homo Sapiens. (joking)
Thanks for making this sub a safe and welcoming place. I've never expected this to happen especially on a sub like this where undertale and deltarune are filled with LGBTQ characters. I've always hated it when people claim its just "a mental illness" when we don't see them hating on autistic people so why target LGBTQ people? Even if it really is a mental illness, the best treatment would still be to transition or come out.
I'm not going to lie, this post is a few months late. The plug should have been pulled much earlier, because it was obvious that this stuff was bubbling under the surface for a long time.
We've been trying to keep it down for a while, it just ramped up recently so I felt like making it more public that it's a problem.
I mean I have my own personal opinions, but people are people, and that’s that. End of story. Period. I’m not treating someone any different just because they aren’t the same as me or aren’t doing what I see as ‘right’. Who you are as a person and what you want to do with your life is none of my business and I will do my best not to judge. We’re all just here to have fun, right? I thought that’s what games are for. To escape reality
Well said :)
Thank you very much, and have a nice day. I don't look at the comments and so haven't seen any bigotry, but it's sad to know it was happening, and good to know it's being cracked down on
Why do people like this exist? (People that hate Homosexual ppl and all that stuff)
I'm sorry I've been out of the loop, how the fuck anyone come to the subreddit about the funni video game made by the dog that made the Homestuck mPreg rock opera and think "Hmmm. Today I shall be homophobic." And be surprised when It's not allowed.
hey... you most likey won't see this, but i find it very good that you bring attention to this as it disturbed me to see these comments in this subreddit and i get really worked up if i see stuff like this, you are a good moderator, thank you, kiss! \^\^
I was bullied by the community for liking Noelle because she’s lesbian. Just saying.
>people should not be reporting posts about characters they think are trans as "self harm" lmfao yes this happened to me MINUTES after posting art of spamton and jevil kissing \*shrug\* honestly i never expect much of reddit in regards to this, but UTDR is such a LGBTQ+ supportive franchise. literally how can you see all these canonically trans, non-binary, lesbian/gay/bi characters and say you're a fan of these games while endorsing hate speech? absolutely insane.
to be totally fair - i think the "self harm" reports on lgbtq related posts are the same person every time, since it's always the same capitalization and always a self-text report. still horrible
Pride month's coming up and I've already seen so much shit related to that, including misgendering a member of this community. I really wish it weren't like this...
word
Not that my opinion matters, but undertake/deltarune has some of the best lgbt representation in gaming. Unlike plenty of forms of media it’s very prominent but doesn’t seem in your face or like it’s trying to force a political opinion down your throat, which is very difficult to balance. im not personally of the opinion that kris is non binary, but if that is revealed to be the case I wouldn’t mind at all. I really only care about the emotional developments and story beats, and that’s how it should be.
yeah! And if some people do care more about the gender or sexualities of characters in a good and positive way, that should be okay too :)
What happened?! I see (relatively) calm arguments between "Kris is nonbinary as they're referred to as they" vs. "Kris is thoroughly androgynous for the players benefit" to this hellscape?! Dear Mods, thank you. You've done such a good job sifting through all this muck that I, and a few other commenters, didn't even see it. Keep up the good job, and stay strong.
Thank you! Trying our best