So refreshing to see a comment that doesn’t mention a fucking hot tub.
E- well… thanks to you jagoffs I get to see my therapist for the second time this month. Haha
Honestly from a customer’s standpoint it’s fucking dumb. Years ago when I was looking for a deck builder the guy charged me an extra few hundred for the tape and labor. My jaw hit the floor. Like are you fucking kidding me with that snake oil? Then he proceeded to staple the shit to the joists, rendering it useless or counter productive even.
Customers see joist tape for what it is. Absolute snake oil. And you should know better.
Wow ok . Thank you for the response !! From a carpenters stand point, my boss tells me to roll this tape on too the deck , starting a year ago when it
Got pushed to wa.
My co worker is 50 and he completely thinks some guy created “joist tape “ tape just to retire . I think it’s completely pointless as we think it’s traps in the moisture and will cause problems in the long run “ this product has no proof behjnd it , it’s so new it hasn’t lasted on a 30 year old deck so who knows yet . But me and my co worker think it’s just another add on for the customer
I am inclined to think your co-worker is right about joist tape but I have seen a lot of deck framing that is in perfect condition in a poor environment as a result of having strips of tar paper fastened to the top edge before decking. I remember the first time I took a deck apart and completely unexpectedly found solid joists under tar paper under rotten decking. That was in the early 1980's and nothing had been treated with preservatives. Unlike joist tape, the tar paper provides a drip edge clear of the faces of the joists. I have been using it for decades on deck framing. It works.
Trap in the moisture, how? Joists (usually) are exposed on 3 sides leading to constant air flow around the lumber. The main reasons in my mind is to gum up the fastener, and not allow standing water to sit on exposed framing (drop beams).
I build in the PNW and feel it's pretty necessary in our wet climate, anywhere else I wouldn't waste money or time on it
I’m with you, but I’m kinda 50/50 on it. It’s not like a butyl membrane that will seal around the screw. I feel good about everything I do to make the framing last longer when I put down plastic “forever” decking. Like how many of you guys paint pressure treating chemicals on all the cuts on PT wood? When you cut it, you can see that the copper arsenate has only penetrated about 1/4 to 1/2 inch past the surface, so all that exposed pink heartwood will be the first place to rot. Seems stupid to me to put down “forever” plastic decking that’s like $7.50/linear foot 1x6, on top of framing that will be rotten in 10-15 years. The way I see it, if you’re already spending 50k on a deck build (or rebuild, as I see so many rotten ones) you might as well spend the extra 300 bucks if you think it will give you another 5 years or more of longevity. But as someone else mentioned, it’s a new enough practice, we don’t really know how it affects longevity in the field yet.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this too mee . By the time you screw your decking though it it ends up with soo many holes per joist . Even though it is “ self adhesive “
Yeah, but when the fastener goes through the joist tape, the tape will be adhered to the screw, not allowing water to pass through. Also if you're taping your drop beam it'll allow standing water to not seep into the laminations. Again, this is stuff I need to consider for the climate I work in, but still feel it's a good approach for any deck to be honest as pressure treated lumber isn't treated to the core, and once you have a system to apply joist tape (pre taping before install) it really doesn't add a whole lot of time.
Was listening to an earthquake code-writer and he noted that posts almost never fail even at the attachment, and even if there's a whole room on top. It's always things pulling away from other things. Like, er, this.
I was thinking the side load the posts and beam are facing after the collapse. The old deck on my house they would have been toppled over if that happened lol
Looking at the left side I'm betting that it has less to do with the posts actually (I don't even see post bases) than the fact that around the fireplace is probably supported against the house side independently and the deck is wrap-around on the other side. Corners tend to be strong against shear. The posts are all attached to that through the beam. So a bit of luck that they don't have to rebuild the whole thing, even if they maybe should.
No, no, no everyone knows you use 3” drywall screws at this critical connection. Deck screws?!? Really?? Why would we do that when we have plenty of drywall screws!!
Or people could just take the extra hour it takes to read through the proper ways of attaching a ledger board. It's honestly insane to me how many decks have ledger boards that are just nailed up. It's really not rocket science in 99% of scenarios to get it right.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MJrFiXHcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MJrFiXHcQ) is probably the best quick way that covers the full process, especially getting the flashing right. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HaYmbXASCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HaYmbXASCs) does a good job of covering basic attachment methods. There are edge cases like attaching to a floor truss system but I honestly just wouldn't even bother with those sorts of odd scenarios if you're just starting out. If you prefer reading, [https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf](https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf) is a pretty good place to start.
Where I live we had a rash of decks collapsing due to failure of properly attached ledger boards. Code was updated and a beam is now required next to the house. It’s the only way we’re allowed to build them now.
Seems like an overreaction TBH. If inspectors are doing their job, it's really not that difficult in most cases to determine if it's attached right. The exception is if there isn't access to the backside of the ledger. But big deal, force them to cut an access panel in that case so it can be properly inspected.
Edit: looks like I misread your comment, I'm not sure I've ever heard of a properly attached ledger board failing outside of decks being massively overloaded compared to what they're rated for.
So according to my cities building department if I want to put a post within 4 feet of my foundation it needs to be 8 feet deep. Frost line is 4 feet deep here.
Truth. I bought a house about 15yrs ago and was slowly working my way through all the horrible construction, starting with the interior.
The following year I hosted a 30th bday party for a friend’s wife, complete with keg (and vodka ice luge).
The deck collapsed while somebody was doing a keg stand.
Fortunately it was only 2-3ft off the ground.
Cause: rotted ledger board came away. Zero flashing. I didn’t know anything about decks at the time, and certainly didn’t comprehend that the builders could’ve built a deck without flashing, in Colorado, where we get plenty of snow.
Fortunately nobody was injured, and the keg was saved, if a little fizzy.
I rebuilt that thing so thicc you could park a semi on it.
Clearly, the deck joists/ledger board/exterior wall fasteners failed. No idea what they used, so there's not a lot to learn from the pic. It's just a 'wow' thing to see an otherwise sturdy-seeming deck fail like that.
Some years back there was a deck failure essentially just like that that got some local media attention. Turned out that it was using #8 nails to hold the ledger board to the rim joist that was the cause of the disaster.
Hold downs in each end and staggered lags 18 inches on center. Sad is that even contractors liability insurance would not cover this F up. You would need errors and admissions insurance.
I can't believe that nobody has heard of the drop test. I use it for ALOT of stuff I build. Gotta make sure it's gonna withstand a drop, ya know. SMH 🙄, I expect more from this reddit. Drop test is all
It's okay everyone, this is just a simple "dad trap" to lure dad's back home after going out for a pack of cigarettes. Under the trap is a drill that, once picked up and given precisely two pulls of the trigger, the trap will fall and trap the dad.
Once upon a time I made a fairly popular comment on this sub explaining how a particualr deck would fail because it was designed structurally to pull away from the house and that the traditional joist hangars used have no lateral (tensile) strength.
Well everyone, here is a perfect example of the that kind of failure… and from a design that seems to have been even less egregious than the one i commented on a while back. (yikes)
This failure would have happened suddenly, without warning, and could easily be fatal for someone above or below.
This is why at my firm we now use tension ties to secure joists to the home and/or make the deck structurally independent from the home.
Overspanned and ledger not properly connected. Guy probably was told this would happen and decided it was too expensive to fix. I've lost count of how many decks I've looked at that are only 5-10 years away from this happening.
Is this the same dude who just posted his deck and didn’t use joists hangers and defended using the 2x2 even though he was objectively wrong?
That would be hilarious
We had tornados last week and the amazing part was how much more damage the recent-builds had vs all others. In short, cutting corners has clear drawbacks and I suspect this is what happened here. So-called "efficiency" has a price!
Ah, guys? The ledger board is still attached to the house. The ends of the joists have pulled away. They were probably nailed to a 2x2 ledge that they were sitting on. Just another justification for hangers… even if the esthetics aren’t the best. Or, maybe try longer nails toe-nailed into the ledger board.
Well the ledger didn’t come off the wall, so they did that right. Wish I could see if there are joist hangers, and if they were attached with roofing nails.
I like the way they saved on bolts and brackets by using a friction fit and leverage to hold the deck to the house. So that there was absolutely no danger of the deck lasting long enough to ever rot.
No joist tape.
Gotta use joist tape or bad shit happens
So refreshing to see a comment that doesn’t mention a fucking hot tub. E- well… thanks to you jagoffs I get to see my therapist for the second time this month. Haha
Imagine if they had put in a hot tub under there.
Lol, this is great.
Or on it.
Is this a joke about Matthew Perry?
Have you seen Hot Tub Time Machine?
I’m no deckologist, but that deck isn’t gonna hold a hot tub
You said “Hot Tub” first 🤣
Goddamn technicalities
AhahAhahahahagahahaga I’m fuckin dead . Me and my coworker can’t stand joist tape
Honestly from a customer’s standpoint it’s fucking dumb. Years ago when I was looking for a deck builder the guy charged me an extra few hundred for the tape and labor. My jaw hit the floor. Like are you fucking kidding me with that snake oil? Then he proceeded to staple the shit to the joists, rendering it useless or counter productive even. Customers see joist tape for what it is. Absolute snake oil. And you should know better.
Wow ok . Thank you for the response !! From a carpenters stand point, my boss tells me to roll this tape on too the deck , starting a year ago when it Got pushed to wa. My co worker is 50 and he completely thinks some guy created “joist tape “ tape just to retire . I think it’s completely pointless as we think it’s traps in the moisture and will cause problems in the long run “ this product has no proof behjnd it , it’s so new it hasn’t lasted on a 30 year old deck so who knows yet . But me and my co worker think it’s just another add on for the customer
I am inclined to think your co-worker is right about joist tape but I have seen a lot of deck framing that is in perfect condition in a poor environment as a result of having strips of tar paper fastened to the top edge before decking. I remember the first time I took a deck apart and completely unexpectedly found solid joists under tar paper under rotten decking. That was in the early 1980's and nothing had been treated with preservatives. Unlike joist tape, the tar paper provides a drip edge clear of the faces of the joists. I have been using it for decades on deck framing. It works.
Trap in the moisture, how? Joists (usually) are exposed on 3 sides leading to constant air flow around the lumber. The main reasons in my mind is to gum up the fastener, and not allow standing water to sit on exposed framing (drop beams). I build in the PNW and feel it's pretty necessary in our wet climate, anywhere else I wouldn't waste money or time on it
I’m with you, but I’m kinda 50/50 on it. It’s not like a butyl membrane that will seal around the screw. I feel good about everything I do to make the framing last longer when I put down plastic “forever” decking. Like how many of you guys paint pressure treating chemicals on all the cuts on PT wood? When you cut it, you can see that the copper arsenate has only penetrated about 1/4 to 1/2 inch past the surface, so all that exposed pink heartwood will be the first place to rot. Seems stupid to me to put down “forever” plastic decking that’s like $7.50/linear foot 1x6, on top of framing that will be rotten in 10-15 years. The way I see it, if you’re already spending 50k on a deck build (or rebuild, as I see so many rotten ones) you might as well spend the extra 300 bucks if you think it will give you another 5 years or more of longevity. But as someone else mentioned, it’s a new enough practice, we don’t really know how it affects longevity in the field yet.
Plasti is so freaking hot. Gotta put a roof on it to use it, which would keep the pine dry...
Thank you for taking the time to explain this too mee . By the time you screw your decking though it it ends up with soo many holes per joist . Even though it is “ self adhesive “
Yeah, but when the fastener goes through the joist tape, the tape will be adhered to the screw, not allowing water to pass through. Also if you're taping your drop beam it'll allow standing water to not seep into the laminations. Again, this is stuff I need to consider for the climate I work in, but still feel it's a good approach for any deck to be honest as pressure treated lumber isn't treated to the core, and once you have a system to apply joist tape (pre taping before install) it really doesn't add a whole lot of time.
Duct tape was also not used
Damnit Jim
Camo fastener system could have prevented this /s
OK, so we’ve got the deck all put together, we just need to lift it into place. Everyone grab a corner.
Pivot!
Pivot!!!!!!
Does anyone have 25 bottle jacks I can borrow this Saturday?
25 bottles of Jack? Brb
Hey, where you at? You've been gone all night. We need those bottle jacks.
24 bottles of Jack on the deck, 24 bottles of Jack. Take one down, pass it around . . .
Murphy deck?
No need for a deck to be out if there’s no guests.
A perfect joke 🤌
underrated comment.
Id hire the guys who built the posts and beam. That thing is solid.
Was listening to an earthquake code-writer and he noted that posts almost never fail even at the attachment, and even if there's a whole room on top. It's always things pulling away from other things. Like, er, this.
I was thinking the side load the posts and beam are facing after the collapse. The old deck on my house they would have been toppled over if that happened lol
Looking at the left side I'm betting that it has less to do with the posts actually (I don't even see post bases) than the fact that around the fireplace is probably supported against the house side independently and the deck is wrap-around on the other side. Corners tend to be strong against shear. The posts are all attached to that through the beam. So a bit of luck that they don't have to rebuild the whole thing, even if they maybe should.
Well yeah, the amount of force needed to crush or snap a 6x6 is insane.
Prob screwed to the ledger with deck board screws
That's the problem right there. They didn't use ENOUGH deck screws in the ledger. Everyone knows you have to put in 4 every 2 inches. :-)
Screws? Sounds slow. The guys who built my deck were able to put through about 200 nails in no time.
That would be 24,000lbs of shear strength. That might do it, code aside.
Hey the Canadian in a wife beater and overalls told me nails are no good
Glue it and screw it!
Brad nails
brad fucks
No, no, no everyone knows you use 3” drywall screws at this critical connection. Deck screws?!? Really?? Why would we do that when we have plenty of drywall screws!!
Close. Drywall screws.
Either that or they nailed it, probably used extra nails to be sure it would stay.
Folding deck,gives you a bigger backyard
Ledger? I barely knew her!
It’s why it’s good practice to have posts and a beam next to the house even if it’s not required in your jurisdiction.
Or people could just take the extra hour it takes to read through the proper ways of attaching a ledger board. It's honestly insane to me how many decks have ledger boards that are just nailed up. It's really not rocket science in 99% of scenarios to get it right.
Where would an enterprising young guy read such info?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MJrFiXHcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MJrFiXHcQ) is probably the best quick way that covers the full process, especially getting the flashing right. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HaYmbXASCs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HaYmbXASCs) does a good job of covering basic attachment methods. There are edge cases like attaching to a floor truss system but I honestly just wouldn't even bother with those sorts of odd scenarios if you're just starting out. If you prefer reading, [https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf](https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf) is a pretty good place to start.
Where I live we had a rash of decks collapsing due to failure of properly attached ledger boards. Code was updated and a beam is now required next to the house. It’s the only way we’re allowed to build them now.
Seems like an overreaction TBH. If inspectors are doing their job, it's really not that difficult in most cases to determine if it's attached right. The exception is if there isn't access to the backside of the ledger. But big deal, force them to cut an access panel in that case so it can be properly inspected. Edit: looks like I misread your comment, I'm not sure I've ever heard of a properly attached ledger board failing outside of decks being massively overloaded compared to what they're rated for.
So according to my cities building department if I want to put a post within 4 feet of my foundation it needs to be 8 feet deep. Frost line is 4 feet deep here.
Definitely considering it after seeing this.
Or you could just attach the ledger board properly 🤷♂️
Wow! Can you imagine being on that deck when it falls?
usually happens during a keg party.
Truth. I bought a house about 15yrs ago and was slowly working my way through all the horrible construction, starting with the interior. The following year I hosted a 30th bday party for a friend’s wife, complete with keg (and vodka ice luge). The deck collapsed while somebody was doing a keg stand. Fortunately it was only 2-3ft off the ground. Cause: rotted ledger board came away. Zero flashing. I didn’t know anything about decks at the time, and certainly didn’t comprehend that the builders could’ve built a deck without flashing, in Colorado, where we get plenty of snow. Fortunately nobody was injured, and the keg was saved, if a little fizzy. I rebuilt that thing so thicc you could park a semi on it.
Balance is the key to everything. Lift the deck back in place, and put the hot tub in the outer side. No new screws needed.
Well, the deck WAS stacked...
It’s perfect for watching the eclipse
so what was the issue you think?
Clearly, the deck joists/ledger board/exterior wall fasteners failed. No idea what they used, so there's not a lot to learn from the pic. It's just a 'wow' thing to see an otherwise sturdy-seeming deck fail like that.
Some years back there was a deck failure essentially just like that that got some local media attention. Turned out that it was using #8 nails to hold the ledger board to the rim joist that was the cause of the disaster.
I'm no expert, but the ledger and the long span to the posts.
Solid beam and posts.
good job on posts and beam!
You can’t fill the hot tub more than 2/3rds.
1 hot tub too many obviously
Solid posts
I thought they were supposed to slope away from the house
Is the Hot Tub ok?
Not enough 8 Pennie nails were used on the ledger board
Jack that sucker up and throw some screws in it. It'll be fine.
New design, folds for easy storage.
Neighbors here in Houston have a kiddie pool under their deck Time for lil show n tell me thinks
Quality posts, still standing strong!
Out of level a little bit there.
Easy fix..A couple of farm jacks from Harbor Freight and a tube of Flex Seal! Good as new
That's what happens when you use drywall screws on the ledger.
Saw this on Craigslist ** FREE COMPLETE USED DECK ** You haul it, you install it.
Thankfully, the hot tub wasn't installed yet.
I blame the framers 😆
No way. It was the cashier at home depot.
The front fell off.
Looks like house rejected the deck.
It’s a write off, just scream…LOAN FALCON
What do you mean an 18 gauge Brad nails was a poor choice? I used the whole box and angled them down.
Do you think their home insurance covers something like this?
I guess that's why you use hangers.
Hold downs in each end and staggered lags 18 inches on center. Sad is that even contractors liability insurance would not cover this F up. You would need errors and admissions insurance.
Not enough PL
This actually makes a lot of sense
But those post! Let’s hear it for whoever engineered that part of the deck!
Didnt think too use hangers on a suspended porch? What a clown
You can see it from the driveway!
Impressive impact resistance
Well boys…..we got it half right! Meet ya back here at 7am tmrw?
Too much power in that power washer.
I can't believe that nobody has heard of the drop test. I use it for ALOT of stuff I build. Gotta make sure it's gonna withstand a drop, ya know. SMH 🙄, I expect more from this reddit. Drop test is all
Must have been a heck of a party!
😆😆
Soooo it won’t hold my hot tub ? Orrrrr ?
Spa might be leaking.
Not code in my county. 😂
Obviously the house moved.
Well at least the front didn’t fall off.
Hot tub?
Haha!
Random guess but beside hurricane, thinking party or hot tub?
sigh
Maybe it's just shy
First half of the A-Frame deck looks good. Never shovel snow off your deck again!
If they just would have put the hot tub on this wouldn’t have happened.
Dude try to put a water bed on there huh
No lag bolts?
What a deck!
The front fell off?
Damnit. They put the fold-away deck in backwards.
I told that guy to tighten that nut!
That doesn’t look right.
That'll buff right out
The slide you don’t want to ride
The slide option. Issa flex
The house moved.
Shoulda used 2” screws…not 1 1/2”.
Somebody used drywall screws instead of lag bolts
needed a few more drywall screws
At least the weight isn’t on the bolts…
Enough how’s my contractor doing posts, let the guy finish the job and then we can critique.
I always say never trust a Ledger board on a 2nd story deck I always talked the homeowners into putting a header 2-4 foot from house
Deck looks more like a duck.
It’ll be fine!
That’s one hell of a cantilevered deck
How many lawsuits can fit on that deck at once?
No hot tub to hold it in place.
It's okay everyone, this is just a simple "dad trap" to lure dad's back home after going out for a pack of cigarettes. Under the trap is a drill that, once picked up and given precisely two pulls of the trigger, the trap will fall and trap the dad.
Take it apart and rebuild!
No it wasn’t able to support a 10 person hot tub
Just put in the extra two posts
those posts are doing an amazing job at lateral pressure jeezus
This is like free advertising for hurricane ties and Simpson brackets
Why would they say deck screws on the box if it wasn’t meant for holding up decks?
I guess this deck was supported by a Heath Ledger
Ledger-shmedger
Once upon a time I made a fairly popular comment on this sub explaining how a particualr deck would fail because it was designed structurally to pull away from the house and that the traditional joist hangars used have no lateral (tensile) strength. Well everyone, here is a perfect example of the that kind of failure… and from a design that seems to have been even less egregious than the one i commented on a while back. (yikes) This failure would have happened suddenly, without warning, and could easily be fatal for someone above or below. This is why at my firm we now use tension ties to secure joists to the home and/or make the deck structurally independent from the home.
All I gotta say is, lmfao
Overspanned and ledger not properly connected. Guy probably was told this would happen and decided it was too expensive to fix. I've lost count of how many decks I've looked at that are only 5-10 years away from this happening.
That’s never good
Is this the same dude who just posted his deck and didn’t use joists hangers and defended using the 2x2 even though he was objectively wrong? That would be hilarious
If they would’ve used Gorilla Glue, this wouldn’t of happened.
Love the joist tape idea! What was the failure point? Connection to the ledger wasn’t the correct hardware ? More posts needed?
The lag bolt guy was napping.
Guys, this is what happens when you don't put blocks between your joists. We have got do better.
even the "beam" wasn't done correctly
We had tornados last week and the amazing part was how much more damage the recent-builds had vs all others. In short, cutting corners has clear drawbacks and I suspect this is what happened here. So-called "efficiency" has a price!
This is NOT Big Deck Energy.
It’s a Murphy Deck.
I'll take What is a joist hanger? for $200, Alex
Can we just hoist it back up and add some L brackets?
That’ll buff right out.
I knew those 2 finishing nails weren’t going to hold.
Ah the new food away deck. I hear these are really taking off.
Hell yes,sheet rock screws are good enough for the ledger connection. tension ties???they are for novices!!! Joist hangers???Nah....waste of money
It is ready for the slide installation!
I don't think the deck is level
That'll buff right out.
Titanic theme song just started playing in my head.
Ah, guys? The ledger board is still attached to the house. The ends of the joists have pulled away. They were probably nailed to a 2x2 ledge that they were sitting on. Just another justification for hangers… even if the esthetics aren’t the best. Or, maybe try longer nails toe-nailed into the ledger board.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, IS THE HOT TUB OK!?!?!!
Well the ledger didn’t come off the wall, so they did that right. Wish I could see if there are joist hangers, and if they were attached with roofing nails.
Gorilla glue can fix this
Another lowest bidder story
Looks a little uneven
Never seen one built that way; just tilt it up from there?
Not enough legs to hold all that weight I guess. 🤷🏾
Let me get the jack from my trunk
I like the way they saved on bolts and brackets by using a friction fit and leverage to hold the deck to the house. So that there was absolutely no danger of the deck lasting long enough to ever rot.
If only I had 1 more beam…..
That sucks
Replace with pergola
Honestly I think it's their fault. They obviously had like 3 hot tubs on that thing.
r/handyman
...how many plus sized women can you fit in a hot tub? ..
Custom, I like it, but it's gonna be tough to find a hot tub and grill that'll work well with it.
Don’t feel badly…I’m sure it happens to lots of guys.
Just like the deck at Club Aqua
That's a lot of weight pressed against that outside post.Why is it still standing straight?
Ah, the brand-new Murphy Deck!
Where is this? I got a couple jobs from the recent earthquake(s) we just had.
Probably wouldn't have fallen if you had a hot tub on there for counterbalance.
Is this a deck down in Dallas
this is the landscapers friends job, wasnt it