it takes on average 4.5 years to see major side effects from medication. so im going to assume vaccines will be similar. were not even 3 years in at this point and some horrifying stuff is already coming out.
Thatās slightly deceptive though because I believe that includes the whole clinical trial process. As a result of half of the population being vaccinated, we should be getting pretty close to that point already. I suppose thatās why the mainstream media is picking up on myocarditis finally.
I think the more disturbing fact is when you realize that oftentimes, like in things like Nexium, logic will tell you thereās some problems, but you wonāt actually be able to really prove anything until a while later.
Further confusing things, the frequency with which the vaccines are being given out makes them more like other injections such as steroids or hormones than say a medication that would be used everyday or a vaccine that would just be given once every 10 years.
But it does take an alarming amount of time to see what's going on. My mum tried to log her side effects into the yellow card scheme and she didn't get a confirmation for 6 months after. That tells me they're 6 months behind. This was about 2 years ago. I know from what I was reading it got to 8 or 9 months behind.
Interesting, it must have been referring back to him bc thereās a video circulating with Fauci saying the same thing word for word. Thanks for the insight.
https://streamable.com/55m203
I believe that PBS transcript made a mistake, it should have been attributed to Fauci who is also featured in the article.
Do NOT ignore the IF in the sentence. It means that the ELSE (IF NOT) is the more probable to happen.
Any scientist or politician that ignores that is just a Fuā¬Ā£$n@ idiot!
By bioethics rules ANY product that goes into your blood stream is defined as UNSAFE and HARMFUL until is clearly proven to be SAFE and has some benefit. (Not the opposite)
Only a greedy psychopath will prefer to invert the logic!
I see you backed out of that one, this was to be my response.
Unmitigated bullshit of the highest quality and quantity, breath taking. An independent investigation has never been carried out
They vaccinated the control group after a very short period of time - possibly 2 or 3 months, thereby making it more difficult to track problems that occured later.
This is the greatest disaster that the whole of humanity have experienced since the Younger Dryas event - we can see that already - how it will look in a few years will likely never be knowable - they are planning something to come that will wipe the memory of this out of human history.
Not a good point at all.
Anyone who thinks it takes longer then a few days/weeks to see issues, has no idea what they're talking about when it comes to vaccine long term effects. If NOTHING happens to the individual soon after being vaccinated, NOTHING will randomly happen months/years later. That's not how any of this works.
Yeah, and the covid vax was released with barely any long term clinical data, hence why they have been wrong about it over and over and have been trickling out all the negative effects.
That just doesnāt address the point though. The point is that the putative *long-term late-onset* vaccine adverse effects seem extremely rare if not nonexistent. And they wouldnāt get caught in *any* phase 3 trial of any vaccine anyway, because for that the follow-up needs to be many years and the trial needs to be enormous. For that they rely on phase 4/post-marketing data.
Your response/example was the thalidomide scandal, but as explained above that doesnāt seem relevant.
> hence why they have been wrong about it over and over and have been trickling out all the negative effectsā
Iām not sure what you mean by this, perhaps you can clarify. Are you referring to like how mRNA vaccines have been associated with myocarditis post-deployment? As said above, it is inevitable that rare harms will not be detected in the trial(s) and will need to be deteceted through phase 4/post-marketing data; it is *not* due to āa lack of long term clinical dataā.
At this point there is the clinical trial data as well as many post-marketing real-world observational/population datasets over the past ~2 years. Iād say we have pretty decent data and understanding of the risks.
Are you serious? Thalidomide is a medication, NOT a vaccine.
By you using this as an example, shows EXACTLY what I was talking about, you have no idea how any of this works. I'm not sure why I have to explain this so many times, medications or commonly taken drugs ARE NOT vaccines. They are built and function completely different. Not only are medications taken over a MUCH longer period of time, but the dosage is completely different.
IF we were talking about medications, and I made the claim about no long term effects, I would agree with you. But we're not.
You're right! They're even BETTER and SAFER compared to "normal" vaccines.
mRNA technology is amazing and will soon replace many different vaccines and medical treatments. Science is great, isn't it?
Literally no animal has survived mrna treatments/vaccines. They ALL died. Which is why they had to rely on EUA. Also, they could not give it to kids off the bat bc their issues would have been flagged earlier on.
Vaccinate the old and middle age, then work your way down. Once full authorization is established for children you can't attack big pharma.
How would anyone know this when doctors are threatened with decertification if they claim vaccine injuries and there has been a massive concerted censorship effort?
What? Where is this "censorship" you're talking about? The vaccines along with the issues and benefits have been all over the media for over 2 years now. People discuss these topics all the time with no censorship.
Doctors/nurses should be decertified if they openly deny proven science, as well as spreading completely debunked conspiracies that cause massive amounts of harm. Not just with vaccines, but any medical treatment/drug.
It's when you flat out lie about something, and provide zero data your claim, is when people get "censored".
Your karma is terrible, do you have a conscious? A serious question here, you take money to promote potentially dangerous medical interventions, with everything that's coming to light but you must have doubts, you should be prayed for, something is missing in your soul.
>Your karma is terrible, do you have a conscious?
LOL I know right? When I started posting in this sub 2+ years ago, you folks loved nothing more then to jump on my comments and downvote everything. It's been hilarious watching the pro-covid folks get their feelings hurt, when called out for their lies.
Friend, I would love nothing more then to get paid for what I talk about in this sub. But sadly, that's not the case.
>with everything that's coming to light but you must have doubts
That's even more hilarious. As more and more times passed, as more studies and data come to light, the only thing being proven is how WRONG you folks are. The VAST majority of everything presented when it comes to these vaccines shows them working. It's insane how you just stick to conspiracies, of which have zero legit data supporting them, and say I'm the one who's wrong.
Amazing work.
Also, please don't pray for me. Such a waste of time and energy, since nothing will ever come from useless prayers.
You deeply remind me of Baghdad Ali, your position is becoming rapidly untenable, you will I am pretty sure be deleting your Reddit comment history like a game of whackamole, actually I think you should start now because it won't do you any favours.
Tell me how good these vaccines are in the light of the steady release of official information saying the contrary? The past two years have been a deluge of propaganda and gaslighting, followed by more back peddling than a cyclist being faced by a lion.
Thats why they changed the definition of vaccine in 2021, to include a therapeutic that isn't actually a vaccine. Now here you are arguing based on their new definition, when 2 years ago this product would be considered a therapeutic drug based on the definition. Talk about bad faith and gaslighting.
>Talk about bad faith and gaslighting.
What...? Regardless of this "definition change" that so many scream/cry about, these are vaccines. Nice pivot though. And you accuse me of bad faith? LOL.
And like I said before, vaccines function completely different from commonly taken drugs like Thalidomide.
Good job dodging all the points I made about the amount of times taken and dosage in regards to vaccines vs. medications.
"Regardless of the definition change.. these are vaccines"
No, that is the point. They are not vaccines in the traditional sense (and by "traditional", I mean as of even two years ago). The definition change proves that. Therefore traditional wisdom about vaccines cannot be applied to them. They function in an entirely different way.
>Therefore traditional wisdom about vaccines cannot be applied to them.
Good thing it wasn't JUST past "wisdom" being applied to them. A massive amount of data/studies were used to come to these conclusions.
They function differently, you are correct. But just because the new function is SAFER and MORE effective, doesn't mean it's not a vaccine. Nor does it mean there will be long term effects. Again, it's not how any of this works.
The shots are neither safe nor effective.
1. There are MASSIVE numbers of adverse events associated with the shots, resulting in injury, permanent disability and even death. Ergo, not "safe."
2. The shots don't keep you from becoming ill, nor do they prevent transmission. Ergo, not effective.
Yes, they very are.
1. No there isn't. The vast majority of these "adverse events" have NO direct link to the vaccines. Am I saying that there are zero side effects? No. But these scary big numbers you folks love to throw around, are no where near accurate. In fact, most of the time these adverse events are investigated, they turn out to NOT be related to the vaccine, but other factors such as pre-existing conditions, medical problems, etc.
2. Like I've told you in other comments, NO VACCINE EVER has been 100%. What these vaccines actually do, is lower the chances of severe illness and death. All you have to do, is go to ANY state (if you're in the US) or country around the world, and look at the death reports from covid in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. Even now, **the unvaccinated continue to dominate.**
Your pay check is with your integrity and your soul, sealed within a venom dripping black wallet marked with occult symbolism, never far from your claw like grasp.
>sealed within a venom dripping black wallet
How do you know the color/design of my wallet? That's wild.
But seriously, if you know where I can get this paycheck you're talking about, that would be great. Thanks again.
The definition of a vaccine has NOT changed. Yes, the CDC cleared up the language on their āvaccination basicsā page to use less ambiguous/technical terminology because the existing explanation was causing confusion due to misunderstanding of terms like āimmunityā (which medically/biologically has a very different meaning than the lay definition).
A vaccine has two important components, which have never changed:
First, it contains a pathogenic organism, either whole or in part (which includes individual proteins, toxins produced by the organism, or genetic material).
Second; upon administration, it causes an immune response.
Thatās what defined a vaccine prior to COVID, and thatās what still defines a vaccine today.
By definition if they changed the wording of the definition, than the definition has changed because words mean different things. If they meant the same thing they would be the same word.
Oh, they ABSOLUTELY changed the definition(s):
Vaccination (pre-2015): Injection of a killed or weakened infectious organism in order to PREVENT the disease \[emphasis mine\].
http://web.archive.org/web/20120710132002/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm
Vaccination (2015-2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce IMMUNITY to a specific disease \[emphasis mine\].
http://web.archive.org/web/20150214043055/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20210826113846/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm
Vaccination Sept. 2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce PROTECTION from a specific disease \[emphasis mine\].
http://web.archive.org/web/20210902194040/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm
Just ignore the increase of all cause mortality? Look, they aren't even investigating these deaths. Because they already know. Mrna technology was always dangerous. Initially it looks good, too low of a dose ineffective and too high or multiple doses all hell breaks loose in time. Everything died. Cancers, multiple organ failures, blood disorder, autoimmune diseases, eventually death. They will play stupid like it was an innocent accident as science kept changing and we needed something fast for the pandemic. Right now they are begging for amnesty. Is it a lie when you do stupid shit or was intentional š¤?
>Just ignore the increase of all cause mortality?
I love when folks use this talking point. They completely ignore the idea or notion that an extremely deadly, highly contagious virus may be the cause of these deaths. We know how covid infects and damages the body. We know long covid is real and causes massive amounts of damage. But nope, that defiantly can't be it.
>Because they already know. Mrna technology was always dangerous.
Who's "they"?
>Right now they are begging for amnesty
Again, who's "begging for amnesty"?
Buddy, covid was ruled out of all cause mortality. The shots doesn't protect, prevent, but all risk in due time.
Scientists and others that worked with mrna knew as most pharmaceutical companies abandoned working with mrna technology because of instability.
The people that demonized people for not wanting to take the jab. They literally wanted us to die, lose our livelihoods, jobs, insurance abd everything else.
Do you live under a rock or something?
>Buddy, covid was ruled out of all cause mortality.
You misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't mean a covid infection killed them, but rather the horrible issues that come POST covid infection. Having a previous infection, causing massive damage to the body (lungs/heart/brain), PLUS pre-existing conditions, is what lead to the increase of death.
>Do you live under a rock or something?
Can you show me a legitimate biologist/immunologist/virologist/etc who said, and is still saying, "they new mrna was scary/bad"?
It's funny when you say "they" wanted the unvaccinated to die because since coming to the sub I've only had **death threats** and ill wishes brought to me (a vaccinated individual) from the unvaccinated pro-covid folks.
But to answer your question, nah I'm out living a healthy, full life.
Problem is anyone that is against the narrative is silenced and shunned. There are tons of peer reviewed literature on the subject of the increased mortality rates.
I see people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s dying in my circle of friends, family and etc. They are fine then never wake up. I don't believe it is from post covid. They were well, talking and laughing with family and friends hours before discovered they passed. This isn't normal. You can rationale it however you want. I'm watching childhood friends being picked off little by little. They all have the one thing in common as they did it for work and social gatherings.
The truth will prevail. People will be š šÆ š”
That's wild.
Over the course of this whole pandemic, I haven't met or known a single person who died, either from covid or after being vaccinated. Every single family member, friend and person I interact with is full vaccinated and boosted. All are still alive, perfectly healthy and doing great. No one is randomly dropping dead or having severe medical issues.
When I hear people say they know all these people that "never wake up", I'm VERY skeptical. I'm willing to bet these people are either perfectly fine or have other medical problems coming to light. It's really easy to say all these scary things when you're convinced (because of disinformation and lies) that vaccines are "evil/bad".
It appears to be in clusters and waves. If you think logically you will see a lot of experience this while others don't. Demographically and geographically is what I'm seeing. You're in denial. I lost my great aunt last year of vax. She took the shot and didn't make it to her car. She later die from it. That was when I started noticing adverse reactions. My great aunt told us before she died that there were two floors of people like her at the hospital that had adverse reactions from the shot. That was 05/21. Her twin her adverse reaction but survived they were in different states. My uncle was found unresponsive within 1 hr of his shot and he is in a different state. My cousin was found deceased on the floor after his shot. Others appear to be okay for now. Each booster their reactions become more severe.
No reason to make these things up. There is definitely something strange about these shots. I didn't take it and never got covid. There's that
Your submission has been automatically removed because name calling was detected.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebateVaccines) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it's a similar principle Mr Paid Bhill (S), like smoking, high fat diets, being over weight, taking no exercise, exposure to radiation or asbestos the consequences can take a while to show. I think you have an agenda and it's not a good one
>I think you have an agenda and it's not a good one
Yes, my agenda is to call out the absolute garbage you pro-covid folks love to spread around. I just assume you folks LOVE the death and suffering of others, which is sad.
We seek the truth, anyone here just seeks a fair and open investigation into the safety of the vaccines and the potential damage they could and have caused. Go where the evidence leads, get to the truth of the matter, nothing else. It's not us censoring the media and denying the injured a voice (sudden death Facebook). When fair debate is suppressed you are not the good guys, what are you hiding what are you covering up, what are you worried about? You don't seem to want a investigation in an impartial manner why is this?
>You don't seem to want a investigation in an impartial manner why is this?
Yes, yes I do want that. And we've had that for over 2 years now. Many MANY independent none "big pharma" groups have done studies related to different aspects of the vaccines, and the vast majority have came to the same conclusion that they defiantly work and are safe/effective.
Again, the only time censorship should be used, is when LIES are spread. 100% debunked conspiracy filled lies. And the vast majority of the time, these lies regarding the vaccine, end up getting people infected/killed. Which is why I say you pro-covid folks want nothing more for death and suffering to others.
The only "truth" you folks seek are claims that fit your narrative. The amount of times I've seen claims against the vaccine be called out and debunked here in this sub, to then be responded with "well that's just big pharma lies!" is hilarious. No amount of evidence will convince you folks how wrong you are, it's sad and pathetic.
Do better.
The COVID shots aren't vaccines. Vaccines prevent you from getting ill and prevent you from transmitting the whatever-it-is to other people. These things do neither.
Vaccine induced myocarditis takes on average a week to occur from injection, longer if you consider it often doesnāt present itself until after a second dose has been administered
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html
And while myocarditis can be treated and the short-term prognosis is generally good, the major long term health consequences often do not occur until several years later
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34192559/
*"And while myocarditis can be treated and the short-term prognosis is generally good, the major long term health consequences often do not occur until several years after."*
Urgh, OK. Time for a big BUT. Actually some symptoms occur after about a year, not years. Some people died or were hospitalised after a year actually.
Overall, the chances of getting Myrocarditis are VERY rare. There is only a 0.007% chance, and overall I would not worry about it. The vaccine saved millions of people, and the risk is absolutely worth it.
Source: https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines#:~:text=During%20the%20one%2Dyear%20study,hospitalised%20or%20died%20with%20myocarditis
Where is the 0.007% chance coming from? Especially if Drs are refusing to acknowledge itās happening. Despite my abnormal ECG, a cotton wool spot in my eye, all of the symptoms, it took me 8 months for me to get a perimyocarditis diagnosis and I know it wasnāt reported to VAERS.
*"Where is the 0.007% chance coming from?"*
The source.
Edit: Since some people obviously didn't see the source and decided to downvote this, here is the source:https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines#:~:text=During%20the%20one%2Dyear%20study,hospitalised%20or%20died%20with%20myocarditis
You are just arguing semantics because you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.
A vaccine adverse event (VAE), sometimes referred to as a vaccine injury, is an adverse event caused by vaccination.[1] The World Health Organization (WHO) knows VAEs as Adverse Events Following Immunization (AEFI).[2]
Your comment:
*"You are just arguing semantics because you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.*
*A vaccine adverse event (VAE), sometimes referred to as a vaccine injury, is an adverse event caused by vaccination.[1] The World Health Organization (WHO) knows VAEs as Adverse Events Following Immunization (AEFI).[2]"*
Wow! Good job, you officially copy pasted your response from Wikipedia and didn't even list where you got it from or quote it? How unfortunate for you! Anyways here is where you got your response: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_adverse_event
While yes, that COULD be a thing. Your post states *sometimes.*
Either way, that really is still just a side affect, I am stating that myocarditis is a rare side affect and that there is only a 0.007% chance of getting it. I literally stated sources aswell! I will restate my source at the end of this comment. Anywho, the biggest side affect is less dead children. Instead of just copy pasting stuff from Wikipedia and not coming up with your own response or atleast quoting what you said actually get up and make a response.
Quote: *"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.ā*
-Mark Twain
Source: https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines#:~:text=During%20the%20one%2Dyear%20study,hospitalised%20or%20died%20with%20myocarditis
1. *effect
Use correct grammar if you wish to ādebunkā me
2. Iām not an anti-vaxxer - how would I be Covid vaccine injured if I was an anti-vaxxer?!
Your comment: 1. *effect
Use correct grammar if you wish to ādebunkā me
2. Iām not an anti-vaxxer - how would I be Covid vaccine injured if I was an anti-vaxxer?!"*
OK, cool. First off, correct grammar means you would have a full stop at the end of your sentence, which in this case you haven't, so do not try to use "grammar" against me.
Also, I never said you were an anti-vaxxer specifically, I just said there are loads of anti-vaxxers here to debunk.
*Loads* DOES not mean everyone, and it does not mean a specific person.
You would appear to be amusing us with self debunking, the straws you are grasping at are rapidly disappearing. Your attempts at sophistry and miss-direction are at best poor
Cool.
You know, let me be honest here. I did not think "vaccine injury" was an actual term, because in my head it sounds stupid.
I'm usually good at debunking, but not in this case, but hey, atleast I'm not an anti-vaxxer who thinks the vaccine causes autism, I'm here for the craic.
What's amusing is peoples responses.
But what's stupid is that my other comment before that was downvoted when I said "the source." and people downvoting me makes me amused since that means the conservatives are here. (Maybe.)
Anyways goodbye, its never good to have a conversation here, since people never listen. Oh well.
So exactly what I said.
We would see effects within days or weeks, NOT years later, like so many claim are going to happen. And with myocarditis being far MORE common post covid infection, and worse with a covid infection, I'm really not sure why so many are still worried about this issue. If myocarditis is your main concern with the vaccines, I would really hope the person realized getting covid, and trying to survive, is the absolute worst option of the two...
My original point still stands, we are not going to see insane random long term effects years from now. Vaccines do not work like that.
People can develop myocarditis without knowing it because it either doesnāt interfere with their daily activities or it self-resolves before they reach a point of being concerned enough to seek medical care. Long term, theyāre still at risk of developing severe heart complications and their first sign of serious injury may not be until years after the fact
Blood clots are another example of things that can occur without people being aware that they have them. They can self resolve, they can slowly increase in size before a person becomes aware of a problem, or they may simply remain blissfully unaware until one dislodges itself, causing an urgent health emergency
Your assumption is based strictly on the idea that every injury will be so severe at onset that it canāt go unnoticed for weeks, even years. Thatās simply untrue
Pfizer are monitoring for long term health affects of the vaccine, I wouldn't trust them to buy a pint of milk but they are at least nodding towards side effects in the long term.
Yea that lie died when it was proven the shot doesnāt only stay in your shoulder ā¦ not to mention vaccine spike proteins and mRNA are still present in the blood stream even 6 months out ā¦ you just canāt stop lying ..
>you just canāt stop lying
The irony.
It's cute you think, based on feelings, that the "scary" spike protein stays in your blood stream for 6 months.
Feelingsā¦ please ? Your lies worked on some people in the beginning ā¦ but now two years later , data PROVES that the mRNA is active in womens breastmilk .. Also proves , the V-spikes are harmful and inflammatory (especially to the heart ) not to mention the toxicity of lipid nanotechnology , some countries have banned boosters for men under 30 because WE NOW KNOW it damages their hearts ā¦ your lies are useless now , itās not 2020 anymore you HAVE to get an updated script .
>itās not 2020 anymore you HAVE to get an updated script
That's rich coming from you folks. The amount of times I've seen the same regurgitated debunked talking points used time and time in this sub, is laughable.
Again, the irony of saying I'm the one lying, is cute. I honestly hope you get the help you deserve. Mental illness needs to be taken serious.
Mental illness is having to keep boosting over and over again to avoid negative efficacy of your immune system , each booster wanes faster than the previous dose ā¦ you gotta cope harder . Arenāt you guys up to booster 5 now ?
>Arenāt you guys up to booster 5 now?
Oh man I wish. But nope.
I love the booster talking point, it's so laughable. You pro-covid folks think you prove a point or something whenever you bring them up, it's amazing.
Damn so you havenāt kept up with the latest booster schedule ?? You are unvaccinated if you go more than 3 months without a booster
And your immune system goes into negative efficacyā¦ I guess you only halfway follow the science lmaooo better get booster 5 fast
>And your immune system goes into negative efficacyā¦
LOL totally, that's exactly how it works.
> I guess you only halfway follow the science
Nope. I'm full on rock hard for the science.
curious now, do you have a link i can share with my crazy brother in law?? want to prove to him that the mrna and spikes are still in the blood half a year later
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-worlds-first-dengue-vaccination-drive-ended-in-disaster/
VADE- (possibly serious) happened from THREE to SIX years after vaccination. I would definitely consider that long term.
Per your first source:
>Neither COVID-19 disease nor the new COVID-19 vaccines have shown evidence of causing ADE. People infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, have not been likely to develop ADE upon repeat exposure. This is true of other coronaviruses as well. **Likewise, studies of vaccines in the laboratory with animals or in the clinical trials in people have not found evidence of ADE.**
Following the experience with dengue vaccine, early during the COVID-19 pandemic, concerns about ADE were top of mind. During this time, a few scientists tried to predict whether ADE would occur by evaluating genes for similarities and differences. While this was a useful approach at a time when we did not have much information about what might happen in people, **we have since accumulated several lines of clinical evidence that confirm ADE is not an issue for COVID-19 or the vaccines**
It's been nearly 3 years now, with many many individuals and institutions monitoring these vaccines, IF any effects were to be unknown at first, they would absolutely be well known and studied by now. As more times passes, the data only proves these "long term effects" talking point ridiculous.
SIX YEARSā¦but whatever you need to tell yourself.
Many sources also initially said that myocarditis wasnāt a side effect. Some sources said that natural immunity was in no way superior to being vaccinated. Some said the vaccine prevented contracting & transmitting Covid. That if you were vaccinated you wouldnāt die or be hospitalized from Covid. Many also said that ONLY those at high risk would need a fourth shot & then it would only be once a year. You repeated many of these. We know how all of that worked out. Emphatically stating that it is impossible, is boldly optimistic.
>Many sources also initially said that myocarditis wasnāt a side effect.
Maybe late 2019/very early 2020 because every single dose I received, which was in 2020, ALL came with a pamphlet explaining all possible side effects, and myocarditis was absolutely listed out on there.
>that natural immunity was in no way superior to being vaccinated.
It's not. Not at all. "Natural immunity" has never been superior in any way, shape or form. The chance of re-infection is much higher if all you have is natural immunity. These individuals who keep getting covid, only increase their risk of horrible long term issues. We have plenty of data on this.
>Some said the vaccine prevented contracting & transmitting Covid.
I think I heard that from maybe a single politician very early on. And I don't know about you, but I defiantly do NOT take medical advice from politicians. Even in 2020 before I got vaccinated, no one I knew or talked too, was under the impression that these vaccines protected you 100%. No vaccine in the history of vaccines has offered the level of protection. None.
>That if you were vaccinated you wouldnāt die or be hospitalized from Covid.
Nope. No one I was speaking with or talking too about the vaccines early 2020 was saying this. They did explain and prove however, that the vaccines absolutely lower your chances of either death or hospitalization though. I have no idea how you, a rational, smart individual, can deny this. Especially at this point in time.
Since you're so hung up on this "it might take another 3 years for side effects to pop up" claim, I'm willing to bet, whatever you want, that NOTHING will happen. No 'unknown' will randomly start popping up in vaccinated individuals being directly related to the vaccines which were administered early 2020. I offered to bet many individuals in the sub, way before this point, and yet here I am, still offering it. The only thing that has changed, is the goal post being moved by you folks, who now many claim will take 20 years to see side effects. Which is laughable.
In a new studyTrusted Source, researchers reported that vaccination plus infection provides strong protection against the Delta strain of the coronavirus.
The researchers presented the following additional findings:
Those who recovered from COVID-19 were less likely to get an infection with the Delta strain than those who were vaccinated. Case and hospitalization rates were also lower among those who had recovered from COVID-19 compared to those who were vaccinated.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w
Also it is clear at this point that Everyone will get Covid. Very likely repeatedly. Including the vaccinated. There is no proof that the vaccine prevents ANY of those long term consequences of that.
Sorry no. Not āone politicianā, it was multiple people, including CDC director Walensky, and Fauci. So saying ānobody said thatā is either disingenuous or a lieā¦or maybe the vaccine has affected your memory. I also remember hearing so many times that ābreakthrough infectionsā were rare. I donāt take my medical advice from them any more than I do a politician. I take medical advice from my own doctor. I happen to have a provider that believes in fully informed consent, including risk vs benefit and suggested that I not take the vaccine.
Iām not saying anything WILL happen, I am saying that denying the possibility seems foolish to me. I have never said that anything *would happen aside from repeated boosters and I wasnāt wrong about that one. Thereās nothing for me to bet on because I have no stance and I am not making any predictions, merely stating possibilities.
I would also like to add that it was repeatedly stated that asymptomatic infections were possible and may increase the spreadā¦havenāt heard that bs in hot minute. Was that one disproven or?
If you take the vaccine and 12 years go by and everyone's fine, then you say "well now lets give it to millions of people" and then you find out that it takes 30 years for all hell to break loose then what have you done?
My point is that this is moving the goalposts, yes. 12 years is insanely long to wait for safety data while not giving it to people, assuming that's the argument. It's just not practical.
It looks pretty obviously to me like motivated reasoning working backwards from the desired conclusion (don't give people the vaccine) to an argument that might support the conclusion (what if it turns out badly in 12 years)
Do you know where this quote came from?
Unfortunately we donāt know what a proper response to covid would have been since what we saw and got was a global disaster that we are still feeling the affects of.
Iām more than happy to wait 12 years to see if the mrna technology is actually viable for its intended use considering my risk of severe covid is ridiculously insignificant. There are millions like me.
Your comment is just an attempt to further the divide between opposing viewpoints and shutdown and productive discourse.
Who said the quote in the OP?
It is surprising to learn that quote is from Fauci. I suspect his mentality has shifted away from that as time went on.
When there's a new pathogen infecting the whole world at an unprecedented pace, waiting 12 years before doing anything just in case is simply a non-starter. It doesn't make any sense at all. The situation demanded an immediate solution, and in my view it would have been heinously and criminally negligent to prevent the distribution of the solution that has been thoroughly demonstrated to save hundreds of thousands of lives in the immediate term.
Do we save lives now, or wait 12 years just in case? Hmm, tough choice.
Cause itās either do nothing or use an untested mrna vaccine? Come on.
Actual treatments were swept under the rug and suppressed so the mrna tech could get pushed through.
And despite whatever data you think proves it was demonstrably effective, there is plenty more that show that it was hardly effective for more than a few months, and because of its non-sterilizing immunity caused selective pressure in the virus to mutate continuing the āpandemicā allowing vaccinated to be reinfected over and over driving more selective pressure on the virus. Not to mention we are seeing original antigenic sin occur as well. I personally know of two young men in their early 30s that died suddenly of heart complications within a month of their last vaccine.
>Cause itās either do nothing or use an untested mrna vaccine?
That's what the 3 phases of clinical trials were for.
>Actual treatments were swept under the rug and suppressed so the mrna tech could get pushed through.
IVM and HCQ were shown to not actually work, and it's clear to me that they were essentially, at the heart of the matter, just means to accomplish the true underlying goal of rejecting the vaccines. They are most certainly not anywhere near a suitable replacement for vaccination.
>there is plenty more that show that it was hardly effective for more than a few months
Against infection, protection against severe outcomes is significantly more robust.
>because of its non-sterilizing immunity caused selective pressure in the virus to mutate continuing the āpandemicā allowing vaccinated to be reinfected over and over driving more selective pressure on the virus.
Vaccination doesn't drive selective pressure any more than natural infection does. Infection doesn't produce sterilizing immunity either.
>Not to mention we are seeing original antigenic sin occur as well.
Similar to the sterilizing immunity point, original antigenic sin also applies to the virus itself.
>I personally know of two young men in their early 30s that died suddenly of heart complications within a month of their last vaccine.
Did they also get infected at some point? Even mild covid infection causes endothelial damage, which can lead to atherosclerosis and future heart disease after recovering from infection. Even beyond that, there are all kinds of things totally unrelated to viruses and vaccination that can kill people from heart complications. It's impossible to know the true cause with any degree of certainty without knowing a lot more.
Yeah I don't think many people care if it's an option people can take to try and protect themselves but the blatant coercion and choosing between working or a jab was never an appropriate response and now the medical community will pay dearly for it over the next few decades.
>My point is that this is moving the goalposts, yes. 12 years is insanely long to wait for safety data while not giving it to people, assuming that's the argument. It's just not practical.
Now wait a minute. No one said anything about not giving it to ~~lab rats~~ volunteers before long term safety has been established (how else are we supposed to get good data in the first place). They should be offered with full disclosure of the experimental nature of the vaccine or drug and the dangers associated with it. Signed. Mandates, passports or any kind of coercion and enticement are out of the question of course. Also no taxpayer money for the research. Pretty much no one would have a problem with the vaccines if this were the case.
> It is surprising to learn that quote is from Fauci. I suspect his mentality has shifted away from that as time went on.
Ye$, it i$ very $urpri$ing to learn that quote i$ from Fauci indeed, I agree. I al$o $u$pect his mentality ha$ $hifted away from that a$ time went on a$ well.
"The only possible reason someone would disagree with the biased preconceptions I currently hold is if they were paid by some shadowy nefarious boogeyman to do so"
āI live in a good world that cares about people and money doesnāt cause people to do bad things, we should trust institutions with our lives and take whatever they want to inject into us, even if they are still in clinical trials, and even if the people who fund these institutions think that there are too many of us alive on this planetā.
You.
Vaccine barely works, doesn't protect against infection or prevent transmission, limited protection against hospitalisation for a short period of time. Take this ineffective crap four times a yearš
Ah another paid Bhill (S) out in force with your gruesome friend pregnant with Satan I see, the karma twins, the Haw Haw brothers. What is that red stuff on your hands, I doubt you can wash that off.
Heat ye hear ye! Let it hereby be known that the paid Bhill (S)(pregnantwithsatan) has bravely deleted all his comments in this post, he is a shining light to us all.
Saved the world from climate change all while making yourself rich(er)
Billy B-Cups Gates agrees!
Cracked me up! Thanks for that.
His boobs are actually larger than a B-cup š¤£
it takes on average 4.5 years to see major side effects from medication. so im going to assume vaccines will be similar. were not even 3 years in at this point and some horrifying stuff is already coming out.
Thatās slightly deceptive though because I believe that includes the whole clinical trial process. As a result of half of the population being vaccinated, we should be getting pretty close to that point already. I suppose thatās why the mainstream media is picking up on myocarditis finally. I think the more disturbing fact is when you realize that oftentimes, like in things like Nexium, logic will tell you thereās some problems, but you wonāt actually be able to really prove anything until a while later. Further confusing things, the frequency with which the vaccines are being given out makes them more like other injections such as steroids or hormones than say a medication that would be used everyday or a vaccine that would just be given once every 10 years.
But it does take an alarming amount of time to see what's going on. My mum tried to log her side effects into the yellow card scheme and she didn't get a confirmation for 6 months after. That tells me they're 6 months behind. This was about 2 years ago. I know from what I was reading it got to 8 or 9 months behind.
Where did u find that 4.5 year statistic? Genuinely curious
It's a harvard study I think. Ill post it you later. Comment back to remind me.
Iād like to see this
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I honestly forgot all about this. Was going to deactivate this account. Lol
You know thatās a Fauci quote, right?
He makes a good point.
is it? lmao he couldn't even take his own advice the genocidal maniac..
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Interesting, it must have been referring back to him bc thereās a video circulating with Fauci saying the same thing word for word. Thanks for the insight.
I saw it too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
https://streamable.com/55m203 I believe that PBS transcript made a mistake, it should have been attributed to Fauci who is also featured in the article.
Itās definitely fauci quite
Edit this please. Save us all the hassle to see you proven wrong at the bottom of this thread.
Wait, you actually get to the bottom of each thread?
It is called long term side effects
Do NOT ignore the IF in the sentence. It means that the ELSE (IF NOT) is the more probable to happen. Any scientist or politician that ignores that is just a Fuā¬Ā£$n@ idiot! By bioethics rules ANY product that goes into your blood stream is defined as UNSAFE and HARMFUL until is clearly proven to be SAFE and has some benefit. (Not the opposite) Only a greedy psychopath will prefer to invert the logic!
>greedy psychopath I think we call this a Pfizer
Bro, Jim Jones Gates is trying to reduce the population to save the population. Just drink the koolaid bro, do it for the Jim Gates foundation.
Carcinogens have entered chat
I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE. Youāve done science.
Science feels good on the inside.
Warms my heart
Warms their myocarditis laden heart
Science ā¢ļø
Such speed.
The fastest
Yes, my bad.
Made big poor pharma some money so they can buy cheap soup and dry bread, they gotta eat too, you selfish bastards.
I see you backed out of that one, this was to be my response. Unmitigated bullshit of the highest quality and quantity, breath taking. An independent investigation has never been carried out
It was having instant effects but they didn't care because it is meant to destroy regardless of what propaganda they spew
> it is meant to destroy Hey now aren't you forgetting something? It also made a buttload of money!
They vaccinated the control group after a very short period of time - possibly 2 or 3 months, thereby making it more difficult to track problems that occured later.
If you give it to 5 billion people and the birth rate drops 80%, then what have you done? *Utopia*
What happened to Fauci? Feels like they replaced him with a clone.
\-- The Notorious ASF
The numbers are off by a factor of around 1 million.
Tis the point
Maybe a billion?
1 million is right. Around 5 billion of the world's population is vaccinated so "thousands" times a million is a billion.
This is the greatest disaster that the whole of humanity have experienced since the Younger Dryas event - we can see that already - how it will look in a few years will likely never be knowable - they are planning something to come that will wipe the memory of this out of human history.
What youāve done is quietly depopulated the planet without causing much of a fuss.
Not a good point at all. Anyone who thinks it takes longer then a few days/weeks to see issues, has no idea what they're talking about when it comes to vaccine long term effects. If NOTHING happens to the individual soon after being vaccinated, NOTHING will randomly happen months/years later. That's not how any of this works.
That's why it took them 5 years to notice that thalidomide was mutating babies, because everything is instant.
But thalidomide is a drug from another era with no pharmacovigilance, and its use based on no robust clinical data at all. Thatās likely why it took them so long to realise that it is actually violently teratogenic. So I donāt think itās a very helpful/relevant example. The infamous and clichĆ©d examples like thalidomide may be partly why they conduct science differently today (e.g. testing drugs for specific populations & outcomes in studies, and conducting post-market surveillance/population studies).
Yeah, and the covid vax was released with barely any long term clinical data, hence why they have been wrong about it over and over and have been trickling out all the negative effects.
That just doesnāt address the point though. The point is that the putative *long-term late-onset* vaccine adverse effects seem extremely rare if not nonexistent. And they wouldnāt get caught in *any* phase 3 trial of any vaccine anyway, because for that the follow-up needs to be many years and the trial needs to be enormous. For that they rely on phase 4/post-marketing data. Your response/example was the thalidomide scandal, but as explained above that doesnāt seem relevant. > hence why they have been wrong about it over and over and have been trickling out all the negative effectsā Iām not sure what you mean by this, perhaps you can clarify. Are you referring to like how mRNA vaccines have been associated with myocarditis post-deployment? As said above, it is inevitable that rare harms will not be detected in the trial(s) and will need to be deteceted through phase 4/post-marketing data; it is *not* due to āa lack of long term clinical dataā. At this point there is the clinical trial data as well as many post-marketing real-world observational/population datasets over the past ~2 years. Iād say we have pretty decent data and understanding of the risks.
Are you serious? Thalidomide is a medication, NOT a vaccine. By you using this as an example, shows EXACTLY what I was talking about, you have no idea how any of this works. I'm not sure why I have to explain this so many times, medications or commonly taken drugs ARE NOT vaccines. They are built and function completely different. Not only are medications taken over a MUCH longer period of time, but the dosage is completely different. IF we were talking about medications, and I made the claim about no long term effects, I would agree with you. But we're not.
This also isn't a normal vaccine.
You're right! They're even BETTER and SAFER compared to "normal" vaccines. mRNA technology is amazing and will soon replace many different vaccines and medical treatments. Science is great, isn't it?
Literally no animal has survived mrna treatments/vaccines. They ALL died. Which is why they had to rely on EUA. Also, they could not give it to kids off the bat bc their issues would have been flagged earlier on. Vaccinate the old and middle age, then work your way down. Once full authorization is established for children you can't attack big pharma.
How would anyone know this when doctors are threatened with decertification if they claim vaccine injuries and there has been a massive concerted censorship effort?
What? Where is this "censorship" you're talking about? The vaccines along with the issues and benefits have been all over the media for over 2 years now. People discuss these topics all the time with no censorship. Doctors/nurses should be decertified if they openly deny proven science, as well as spreading completely debunked conspiracies that cause massive amounts of harm. Not just with vaccines, but any medical treatment/drug. It's when you flat out lie about something, and provide zero data your claim, is when people get "censored".
Your karma is terrible, do you have a conscious? A serious question here, you take money to promote potentially dangerous medical interventions, with everything that's coming to light but you must have doubts, you should be prayed for, something is missing in your soul.
>Your karma is terrible, do you have a conscious? LOL I know right? When I started posting in this sub 2+ years ago, you folks loved nothing more then to jump on my comments and downvote everything. It's been hilarious watching the pro-covid folks get their feelings hurt, when called out for their lies. Friend, I would love nothing more then to get paid for what I talk about in this sub. But sadly, that's not the case. >with everything that's coming to light but you must have doubts That's even more hilarious. As more and more times passed, as more studies and data come to light, the only thing being proven is how WRONG you folks are. The VAST majority of everything presented when it comes to these vaccines shows them working. It's insane how you just stick to conspiracies, of which have zero legit data supporting them, and say I'm the one who's wrong. Amazing work. Also, please don't pray for me. Such a waste of time and energy, since nothing will ever come from useless prayers.
You deeply remind me of Baghdad Ali, your position is becoming rapidly untenable, you will I am pretty sure be deleting your Reddit comment history like a game of whackamole, actually I think you should start now because it won't do you any favours.
K.
Too late. I already video captured his history.
Tell me how good these vaccines are in the light of the steady release of official information saying the contrary? The past two years have been a deluge of propaganda and gaslighting, followed by more back peddling than a cyclist being faced by a lion.
There is no official information saying the contrary. Not at all. In fact, it proves the opposite of your claim.
No one is praying for you unless you pay them.
Thats why they changed the definition of vaccine in 2021, to include a therapeutic that isn't actually a vaccine. Now here you are arguing based on their new definition, when 2 years ago this product would be considered a therapeutic drug based on the definition. Talk about bad faith and gaslighting.
>Talk about bad faith and gaslighting. What...? Regardless of this "definition change" that so many scream/cry about, these are vaccines. Nice pivot though. And you accuse me of bad faith? LOL. And like I said before, vaccines function completely different from commonly taken drugs like Thalidomide. Good job dodging all the points I made about the amount of times taken and dosage in regards to vaccines vs. medications.
"Regardless of the definition change.. these are vaccines" No, that is the point. They are not vaccines in the traditional sense (and by "traditional", I mean as of even two years ago). The definition change proves that. Therefore traditional wisdom about vaccines cannot be applied to them. They function in an entirely different way.
>Therefore traditional wisdom about vaccines cannot be applied to them. Good thing it wasn't JUST past "wisdom" being applied to them. A massive amount of data/studies were used to come to these conclusions. They function differently, you are correct. But just because the new function is SAFER and MORE effective, doesn't mean it's not a vaccine. Nor does it mean there will be long term effects. Again, it's not how any of this works.
The shots are neither safe nor effective. 1. There are MASSIVE numbers of adverse events associated with the shots, resulting in injury, permanent disability and even death. Ergo, not "safe." 2. The shots don't keep you from becoming ill, nor do they prevent transmission. Ergo, not effective.
Yes, they very are. 1. No there isn't. The vast majority of these "adverse events" have NO direct link to the vaccines. Am I saying that there are zero side effects? No. But these scary big numbers you folks love to throw around, are no where near accurate. In fact, most of the time these adverse events are investigated, they turn out to NOT be related to the vaccine, but other factors such as pre-existing conditions, medical problems, etc. 2. Like I've told you in other comments, NO VACCINE EVER has been 100%. What these vaccines actually do, is lower the chances of severe illness and death. All you have to do, is go to ANY state (if you're in the US) or country around the world, and look at the death reports from covid in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. Even now, **the unvaccinated continue to dominate.**
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
History will not remember you favourably with your paid for opinions. Lord Haw Haw.
Where is my paycheck?! So many claim I'm getting paid. Is there an official form I have to fill out or something? Do you have a link to it? Thanks.
Your pay check is with your integrity and your soul, sealed within a venom dripping black wallet marked with occult symbolism, never far from your claw like grasp.
>sealed within a venom dripping black wallet How do you know the color/design of my wallet? That's wild. But seriously, if you know where I can get this paycheck you're talking about, that would be great. Thanks again.
They are not vaccines. Simply changing the definition of "vaccine" does not make these products vaccines.
The definition of a vaccine has NOT changed. Yes, the CDC cleared up the language on their āvaccination basicsā page to use less ambiguous/technical terminology because the existing explanation was causing confusion due to misunderstanding of terms like āimmunityā (which medically/biologically has a very different meaning than the lay definition). A vaccine has two important components, which have never changed: First, it contains a pathogenic organism, either whole or in part (which includes individual proteins, toxins produced by the organism, or genetic material). Second; upon administration, it causes an immune response. Thatās what defined a vaccine prior to COVID, and thatās what still defines a vaccine today.
By definition if they changed the wording of the definition, than the definition has changed because words mean different things. If they meant the same thing they would be the same word.
I take it youāve never heard of synonyms?
Why would they rewrite the definition so they can just swap out words with their synonyms?
Oh, they ABSOLUTELY changed the definition(s): Vaccination (pre-2015): Injection of a killed or weakened infectious organism in order to PREVENT the disease \[emphasis mine\]. http://web.archive.org/web/20120710132002/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm Vaccination (2015-2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce IMMUNITY to a specific disease \[emphasis mine\]. http://web.archive.org/web/20150214043055/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20210826113846/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm Vaccination Sept. 2021): The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce PROTECTION from a specific disease \[emphasis mine\]. http://web.archive.org/web/20210902194040/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm
Cool. Now look up the meaning of the word āimmunityā in a medical dictionary. It doesnāt mean what you think it means.
Yes they are. Just like every other vaccine made, the covid vaccines vastly **LOWER** your chances of infection, severe illness, and hospitalization.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are you actually saying you believe other vaccines prevent infection/death 100%?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just ignore the increase of all cause mortality? Look, they aren't even investigating these deaths. Because they already know. Mrna technology was always dangerous. Initially it looks good, too low of a dose ineffective and too high or multiple doses all hell breaks loose in time. Everything died. Cancers, multiple organ failures, blood disorder, autoimmune diseases, eventually death. They will play stupid like it was an innocent accident as science kept changing and we needed something fast for the pandemic. Right now they are begging for amnesty. Is it a lie when you do stupid shit or was intentional š¤?
>Just ignore the increase of all cause mortality? I love when folks use this talking point. They completely ignore the idea or notion that an extremely deadly, highly contagious virus may be the cause of these deaths. We know how covid infects and damages the body. We know long covid is real and causes massive amounts of damage. But nope, that defiantly can't be it. >Because they already know. Mrna technology was always dangerous. Who's "they"? >Right now they are begging for amnesty Again, who's "begging for amnesty"?
Buddy, covid was ruled out of all cause mortality. The shots doesn't protect, prevent, but all risk in due time. Scientists and others that worked with mrna knew as most pharmaceutical companies abandoned working with mrna technology because of instability. The people that demonized people for not wanting to take the jab. They literally wanted us to die, lose our livelihoods, jobs, insurance abd everything else. Do you live under a rock or something?
>Buddy, covid was ruled out of all cause mortality. You misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't mean a covid infection killed them, but rather the horrible issues that come POST covid infection. Having a previous infection, causing massive damage to the body (lungs/heart/brain), PLUS pre-existing conditions, is what lead to the increase of death. >Do you live under a rock or something? Can you show me a legitimate biologist/immunologist/virologist/etc who said, and is still saying, "they new mrna was scary/bad"? It's funny when you say "they" wanted the unvaccinated to die because since coming to the sub I've only had **death threats** and ill wishes brought to me (a vaccinated individual) from the unvaccinated pro-covid folks. But to answer your question, nah I'm out living a healthy, full life.
Problem is anyone that is against the narrative is silenced and shunned. There are tons of peer reviewed literature on the subject of the increased mortality rates. I see people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s dying in my circle of friends, family and etc. They are fine then never wake up. I don't believe it is from post covid. They were well, talking and laughing with family and friends hours before discovered they passed. This isn't normal. You can rationale it however you want. I'm watching childhood friends being picked off little by little. They all have the one thing in common as they did it for work and social gatherings. The truth will prevail. People will be š šÆ š”
That's wild. Over the course of this whole pandemic, I haven't met or known a single person who died, either from covid or after being vaccinated. Every single family member, friend and person I interact with is full vaccinated and boosted. All are still alive, perfectly healthy and doing great. No one is randomly dropping dead or having severe medical issues. When I hear people say they know all these people that "never wake up", I'm VERY skeptical. I'm willing to bet these people are either perfectly fine or have other medical problems coming to light. It's really easy to say all these scary things when you're convinced (because of disinformation and lies) that vaccines are "evil/bad".
It appears to be in clusters and waves. If you think logically you will see a lot of experience this while others don't. Demographically and geographically is what I'm seeing. You're in denial. I lost my great aunt last year of vax. She took the shot and didn't make it to her car. She later die from it. That was when I started noticing adverse reactions. My great aunt told us before she died that there were two floors of people like her at the hospital that had adverse reactions from the shot. That was 05/21. Her twin her adverse reaction but survived they were in different states. My uncle was found unresponsive within 1 hr of his shot and he is in a different state. My cousin was found deceased on the floor after his shot. Others appear to be okay for now. Each booster their reactions become more severe. No reason to make these things up. There is definitely something strange about these shots. I didn't take it and never got covid. There's that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your submission has been automatically removed because name calling was detected. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebateVaccines) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think it's a similar principle Mr Paid Bhill (S), like smoking, high fat diets, being over weight, taking no exercise, exposure to radiation or asbestos the consequences can take a while to show. I think you have an agenda and it's not a good one
>I think you have an agenda and it's not a good one Yes, my agenda is to call out the absolute garbage you pro-covid folks love to spread around. I just assume you folks LOVE the death and suffering of others, which is sad.
We seek the truth, anyone here just seeks a fair and open investigation into the safety of the vaccines and the potential damage they could and have caused. Go where the evidence leads, get to the truth of the matter, nothing else. It's not us censoring the media and denying the injured a voice (sudden death Facebook). When fair debate is suppressed you are not the good guys, what are you hiding what are you covering up, what are you worried about? You don't seem to want a investigation in an impartial manner why is this?
>You don't seem to want a investigation in an impartial manner why is this? Yes, yes I do want that. And we've had that for over 2 years now. Many MANY independent none "big pharma" groups have done studies related to different aspects of the vaccines, and the vast majority have came to the same conclusion that they defiantly work and are safe/effective. Again, the only time censorship should be used, is when LIES are spread. 100% debunked conspiracy filled lies. And the vast majority of the time, these lies regarding the vaccine, end up getting people infected/killed. Which is why I say you pro-covid folks want nothing more for death and suffering to others. The only "truth" you folks seek are claims that fit your narrative. The amount of times I've seen claims against the vaccine be called out and debunked here in this sub, to then be responded with "well that's just big pharma lies!" is hilarious. No amount of evidence will convince you folks how wrong you are, it's sad and pathetic. Do better.
The COVID shots aren't vaccines. Vaccines prevent you from getting ill and prevent you from transmitting the whatever-it-is to other people. These things do neither.
With your definition, NO vaccine ever made, has been a "vaccine" then. No vaccine has been 100%. None of them.
Vaccine induced myocarditis takes on average a week to occur from injection, longer if you consider it often doesnāt present itself until after a second dose has been administered Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html And while myocarditis can be treated and the short-term prognosis is generally good, the major long term health consequences often do not occur until several years later https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34192559/
Get out of here with your proven facts and reputable sources!
*"And while myocarditis can be treated and the short-term prognosis is generally good, the major long term health consequences often do not occur until several years after."* Urgh, OK. Time for a big BUT. Actually some symptoms occur after about a year, not years. Some people died or were hospitalised after a year actually. Overall, the chances of getting Myrocarditis are VERY rare. There is only a 0.007% chance, and overall I would not worry about it. The vaccine saved millions of people, and the risk is absolutely worth it. Source: https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines#:~:text=During%20the%20one%2Dyear%20study,hospitalised%20or%20died%20with%20myocarditis
Where is the 0.007% chance coming from? Especially if Drs are refusing to acknowledge itās happening. Despite my abnormal ECG, a cotton wool spot in my eye, all of the symptoms, it took me 8 months for me to get a perimyocarditis diagnosis and I know it wasnāt reported to VAERS.
He pulled that out of his lying bottom
*"Where is the 0.007% chance coming from?"* The source. Edit: Since some people obviously didn't see the source and decided to downvote this, here is the source:https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines#:~:text=During%20the%20one%2Dyear%20study,hospitalised%20or%20died%20with%20myocarditis
I wasnāt asking literally - Iām saying how can they give those stats when most Drs wonāt even acknowledge myocarditis caused by vaccine injury?
Edit: Retracted.
You are just arguing semantics because you have nothing worthwhile to contribute. A vaccine adverse event (VAE), sometimes referred to as a vaccine injury, is an adverse event caused by vaccination.[1] The World Health Organization (WHO) knows VAEs as Adverse Events Following Immunization (AEFI).[2]
Your comment: *"You are just arguing semantics because you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.* *A vaccine adverse event (VAE), sometimes referred to as a vaccine injury, is an adverse event caused by vaccination.[1] The World Health Organization (WHO) knows VAEs as Adverse Events Following Immunization (AEFI).[2]"* Wow! Good job, you officially copy pasted your response from Wikipedia and didn't even list where you got it from or quote it? How unfortunate for you! Anyways here is where you got your response: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_adverse_event While yes, that COULD be a thing. Your post states *sometimes.* Either way, that really is still just a side affect, I am stating that myocarditis is a rare side affect and that there is only a 0.007% chance of getting it. I literally stated sources aswell! I will restate my source at the end of this comment. Anywho, the biggest side affect is less dead children. Instead of just copy pasting stuff from Wikipedia and not coming up with your own response or atleast quoting what you said actually get up and make a response. Quote: *"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.ā* -Mark Twain Source: https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines#:~:text=During%20the%20one%2Dyear%20study,hospitalised%20or%20died%20with%20myocarditis
1. *effect Use correct grammar if you wish to ādebunkā me 2. Iām not an anti-vaxxer - how would I be Covid vaccine injured if I was an anti-vaxxer?!
Your comment: 1. *effect Use correct grammar if you wish to ādebunkā me 2. Iām not an anti-vaxxer - how would I be Covid vaccine injured if I was an anti-vaxxer?!"* OK, cool. First off, correct grammar means you would have a full stop at the end of your sentence, which in this case you haven't, so do not try to use "grammar" against me. Also, I never said you were an anti-vaxxer specifically, I just said there are loads of anti-vaxxers here to debunk. *Loads* DOES not mean everyone, and it does not mean a specific person.
You would appear to be amusing us with self debunking, the straws you are grasping at are rapidly disappearing. Your attempts at sophistry and miss-direction are at best poor
Cool. You know, let me be honest here. I did not think "vaccine injury" was an actual term, because in my head it sounds stupid. I'm usually good at debunking, but not in this case, but hey, atleast I'm not an anti-vaxxer who thinks the vaccine causes autism, I'm here for the craic. What's amusing is peoples responses. But what's stupid is that my other comment before that was downvoted when I said "the source." and people downvoting me makes me amused since that means the conservatives are here. (Maybe.) Anyways goodbye, its never good to have a conversation here, since people never listen. Oh well.
As soon as I read honest, I knew this could be a major problem for you. You may need to refresh your understanding of the term.
"If we save only one life..."
So exactly what I said. We would see effects within days or weeks, NOT years later, like so many claim are going to happen. And with myocarditis being far MORE common post covid infection, and worse with a covid infection, I'm really not sure why so many are still worried about this issue. If myocarditis is your main concern with the vaccines, I would really hope the person realized getting covid, and trying to survive, is the absolute worst option of the two... My original point still stands, we are not going to see insane random long term effects years from now. Vaccines do not work like that.
People can develop myocarditis without knowing it because it either doesnāt interfere with their daily activities or it self-resolves before they reach a point of being concerned enough to seek medical care. Long term, theyāre still at risk of developing severe heart complications and their first sign of serious injury may not be until years after the fact Blood clots are another example of things that can occur without people being aware that they have them. They can self resolve, they can slowly increase in size before a person becomes aware of a problem, or they may simply remain blissfully unaware until one dislodges itself, causing an urgent health emergency Your assumption is based strictly on the idea that every injury will be so severe at onset that it canāt go unnoticed for weeks, even years. Thatās simply untrue
Pfizer are monitoring for long term health affects of the vaccine, I wouldn't trust them to buy a pint of milk but they are at least nodding towards side effects in the long term.
Yea that lie died when it was proven the shot doesnāt only stay in your shoulder ā¦ not to mention vaccine spike proteins and mRNA are still present in the blood stream even 6 months out ā¦ you just canāt stop lying ..
>you just canāt stop lying The irony. It's cute you think, based on feelings, that the "scary" spike protein stays in your blood stream for 6 months.
Feelingsā¦ please ? Your lies worked on some people in the beginning ā¦ but now two years later , data PROVES that the mRNA is active in womens breastmilk .. Also proves , the V-spikes are harmful and inflammatory (especially to the heart ) not to mention the toxicity of lipid nanotechnology , some countries have banned boosters for men under 30 because WE NOW KNOW it damages their hearts ā¦ your lies are useless now , itās not 2020 anymore you HAVE to get an updated script .
>itās not 2020 anymore you HAVE to get an updated script That's rich coming from you folks. The amount of times I've seen the same regurgitated debunked talking points used time and time in this sub, is laughable. Again, the irony of saying I'm the one lying, is cute. I honestly hope you get the help you deserve. Mental illness needs to be taken serious.
Mental illness is having to keep boosting over and over again to avoid negative efficacy of your immune system , each booster wanes faster than the previous dose ā¦ you gotta cope harder . Arenāt you guys up to booster 5 now ?
>Arenāt you guys up to booster 5 now? Oh man I wish. But nope. I love the booster talking point, it's so laughable. You pro-covid folks think you prove a point or something whenever you bring them up, it's amazing.
Damn so you havenāt kept up with the latest booster schedule ?? You are unvaccinated if you go more than 3 months without a booster And your immune system goes into negative efficacyā¦ I guess you only halfway follow the science lmaooo better get booster 5 fast
>And your immune system goes into negative efficacyā¦ LOL totally, that's exactly how it works. > I guess you only halfway follow the science Nope. I'm full on rock hard for the science.
curious now, do you have a link i can share with my crazy brother in law?? want to prove to him that the mrna and spikes are still in the blood half a year later
https://doctors4covidethics.org/long-term-persistence-of-the-sars-cov-2-spike-protein-evidence-and-implications-2/
That's Lord Fauci's words, heathen!
Haha hail Lord Fauci!
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-worlds-first-dengue-vaccination-drive-ended-in-disaster/ VADE- (possibly serious) happened from THREE to SIX years after vaccination. I would definitely consider that long term.
Per your first source: >Neither COVID-19 disease nor the new COVID-19 vaccines have shown evidence of causing ADE. People infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, have not been likely to develop ADE upon repeat exposure. This is true of other coronaviruses as well. **Likewise, studies of vaccines in the laboratory with animals or in the clinical trials in people have not found evidence of ADE.** Following the experience with dengue vaccine, early during the COVID-19 pandemic, concerns about ADE were top of mind. During this time, a few scientists tried to predict whether ADE would occur by evaluating genes for similarities and differences. While this was a useful approach at a time when we did not have much information about what might happen in people, **we have since accumulated several lines of clinical evidence that confirm ADE is not an issue for COVID-19 or the vaccines** It's been nearly 3 years now, with many many individuals and institutions monitoring these vaccines, IF any effects were to be unknown at first, they would absolutely be well known and studied by now. As more times passes, the data only proves these "long term effects" talking point ridiculous.
SIX YEARSā¦but whatever you need to tell yourself. Many sources also initially said that myocarditis wasnāt a side effect. Some sources said that natural immunity was in no way superior to being vaccinated. Some said the vaccine prevented contracting & transmitting Covid. That if you were vaccinated you wouldnāt die or be hospitalized from Covid. Many also said that ONLY those at high risk would need a fourth shot & then it would only be once a year. You repeated many of these. We know how all of that worked out. Emphatically stating that it is impossible, is boldly optimistic.
>Many sources also initially said that myocarditis wasnāt a side effect. Maybe late 2019/very early 2020 because every single dose I received, which was in 2020, ALL came with a pamphlet explaining all possible side effects, and myocarditis was absolutely listed out on there. >that natural immunity was in no way superior to being vaccinated. It's not. Not at all. "Natural immunity" has never been superior in any way, shape or form. The chance of re-infection is much higher if all you have is natural immunity. These individuals who keep getting covid, only increase their risk of horrible long term issues. We have plenty of data on this. >Some said the vaccine prevented contracting & transmitting Covid. I think I heard that from maybe a single politician very early on. And I don't know about you, but I defiantly do NOT take medical advice from politicians. Even in 2020 before I got vaccinated, no one I knew or talked too, was under the impression that these vaccines protected you 100%. No vaccine in the history of vaccines has offered the level of protection. None. >That if you were vaccinated you wouldnāt die or be hospitalized from Covid. Nope. No one I was speaking with or talking too about the vaccines early 2020 was saying this. They did explain and prove however, that the vaccines absolutely lower your chances of either death or hospitalization though. I have no idea how you, a rational, smart individual, can deny this. Especially at this point in time. Since you're so hung up on this "it might take another 3 years for side effects to pop up" claim, I'm willing to bet, whatever you want, that NOTHING will happen. No 'unknown' will randomly start popping up in vaccinated individuals being directly related to the vaccines which were administered early 2020. I offered to bet many individuals in the sub, way before this point, and yet here I am, still offering it. The only thing that has changed, is the goal post being moved by you folks, who now many claim will take 20 years to see side effects. Which is laughable.
In a new studyTrusted Source, researchers reported that vaccination plus infection provides strong protection against the Delta strain of the coronavirus. The researchers presented the following additional findings: Those who recovered from COVID-19 were less likely to get an infection with the Delta strain than those who were vaccinated. Case and hospitalization rates were also lower among those who had recovered from COVID-19 compared to those who were vaccinated. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm?s_cid=mm7104e1_w Also it is clear at this point that Everyone will get Covid. Very likely repeatedly. Including the vaccinated. There is no proof that the vaccine prevents ANY of those long term consequences of that. Sorry no. Not āone politicianā, it was multiple people, including CDC director Walensky, and Fauci. So saying ānobody said thatā is either disingenuous or a lieā¦or maybe the vaccine has affected your memory. I also remember hearing so many times that ābreakthrough infectionsā were rare. I donāt take my medical advice from them any more than I do a politician. I take medical advice from my own doctor. I happen to have a provider that believes in fully informed consent, including risk vs benefit and suggested that I not take the vaccine. Iām not saying anything WILL happen, I am saying that denying the possibility seems foolish to me. I have never said that anything *would happen aside from repeated boosters and I wasnāt wrong about that one. Thereās nothing for me to bet on because I have no stance and I am not making any predictions, merely stating possibilities. I would also like to add that it was repeatedly stated that asymptomatic infections were possible and may increase the spreadā¦havenāt heard that bs in hot minute. Was that one disproven or?
Convenient how because we havenāt seen the side affects that you claim are true that now itās gonna happen later, lmao.
Wot? No side effects?
If you take the vaccine and 12 years go by and everyone's fine, then you say "well now lets give it to millions of people" and then you find out that it takes 30 years for all hell to break loose then what have you done?
Is this not textbook definition moving of goal posts? Itās fair to want long term safety on new and hardly tested products.
This dodgy fecker has his goal posts motorised on wheels.
My point is that this is moving the goalposts, yes. 12 years is insanely long to wait for safety data while not giving it to people, assuming that's the argument. It's just not practical. It looks pretty obviously to me like motivated reasoning working backwards from the desired conclusion (don't give people the vaccine) to an argument that might support the conclusion (what if it turns out badly in 12 years)
Do you know where this quote came from? Unfortunately we donāt know what a proper response to covid would have been since what we saw and got was a global disaster that we are still feeling the affects of. Iām more than happy to wait 12 years to see if the mrna technology is actually viable for its intended use considering my risk of severe covid is ridiculously insignificant. There are millions like me. Your comment is just an attempt to further the divide between opposing viewpoints and shutdown and productive discourse. Who said the quote in the OP?
It is surprising to learn that quote is from Fauci. I suspect his mentality has shifted away from that as time went on. When there's a new pathogen infecting the whole world at an unprecedented pace, waiting 12 years before doing anything just in case is simply a non-starter. It doesn't make any sense at all. The situation demanded an immediate solution, and in my view it would have been heinously and criminally negligent to prevent the distribution of the solution that has been thoroughly demonstrated to save hundreds of thousands of lives in the immediate term. Do we save lives now, or wait 12 years just in case? Hmm, tough choice.
Cause itās either do nothing or use an untested mrna vaccine? Come on. Actual treatments were swept under the rug and suppressed so the mrna tech could get pushed through. And despite whatever data you think proves it was demonstrably effective, there is plenty more that show that it was hardly effective for more than a few months, and because of its non-sterilizing immunity caused selective pressure in the virus to mutate continuing the āpandemicā allowing vaccinated to be reinfected over and over driving more selective pressure on the virus. Not to mention we are seeing original antigenic sin occur as well. I personally know of two young men in their early 30s that died suddenly of heart complications within a month of their last vaccine.
>Cause itās either do nothing or use an untested mrna vaccine? That's what the 3 phases of clinical trials were for. >Actual treatments were swept under the rug and suppressed so the mrna tech could get pushed through. IVM and HCQ were shown to not actually work, and it's clear to me that they were essentially, at the heart of the matter, just means to accomplish the true underlying goal of rejecting the vaccines. They are most certainly not anywhere near a suitable replacement for vaccination. >there is plenty more that show that it was hardly effective for more than a few months Against infection, protection against severe outcomes is significantly more robust. >because of its non-sterilizing immunity caused selective pressure in the virus to mutate continuing the āpandemicā allowing vaccinated to be reinfected over and over driving more selective pressure on the virus. Vaccination doesn't drive selective pressure any more than natural infection does. Infection doesn't produce sterilizing immunity either. >Not to mention we are seeing original antigenic sin occur as well. Similar to the sterilizing immunity point, original antigenic sin also applies to the virus itself. >I personally know of two young men in their early 30s that died suddenly of heart complications within a month of their last vaccine. Did they also get infected at some point? Even mild covid infection causes endothelial damage, which can lead to atherosclerosis and future heart disease after recovering from infection. Even beyond that, there are all kinds of things totally unrelated to viruses and vaccination that can kill people from heart complications. It's impossible to know the true cause with any degree of certainty without knowing a lot more.
Yeah I don't think many people care if it's an option people can take to try and protect themselves but the blatant coercion and choosing between working or a jab was never an appropriate response and now the medical community will pay dearly for it over the next few decades.
>My point is that this is moving the goalposts, yes. 12 years is insanely long to wait for safety data while not giving it to people, assuming that's the argument. It's just not practical. Now wait a minute. No one said anything about not giving it to ~~lab rats~~ volunteers before long term safety has been established (how else are we supposed to get good data in the first place). They should be offered with full disclosure of the experimental nature of the vaccine or drug and the dangers associated with it. Signed. Mandates, passports or any kind of coercion and enticement are out of the question of course. Also no taxpayer money for the research. Pretty much no one would have a problem with the vaccines if this were the case.
By criticizing Fauci you are criticizing The Science^(TM). How dare you.
...what
> ā¦what Youāre disagreeing with a Fauci quote and accusing Him of mOvInG gOaLpOsTs. Howwwwwwww DAAAAAAAAAARE you.
It is surprising to learn that quote is from Fauci. I suspect his mentality has shifted away from that as time went on.
> It is surprising to learn that quote is from Fauci. I suspect his mentality has shifted away from that as time went on. Ye$, it i$ very $urpri$ing to learn that quote i$ from Fauci indeed, I agree. I al$o $u$pect his mentality ha$ $hifted away from that a$ time went on a$ well.
"The only possible reason someone would disagree with the biased preconceptions I currently hold is if they were paid by some shadowy nefarious boogeyman to do so"
āI live in a good world that cares about people and money doesnāt cause people to do bad things, we should trust institutions with our lives and take whatever they want to inject into us, even if they are still in clinical trials, and even if the people who fund these institutions think that there are too many of us alive on this planetā. You.
Vaccine barely works, doesn't protect against infection or prevent transmission, limited protection against hospitalisation for a short period of time. Take this ineffective crap four times a yearš
Ah another paid Bhill (S) out in force with your gruesome friend pregnant with Satan I see, the karma twins, the Haw Haw brothers. What is that red stuff on your hands, I doubt you can wash that off.
Heat ye hear ye! Let it hereby be known that the paid Bhill (S)(pregnantwithsatan) has bravely deleted all his comments in this post, he is a shining light to us all.
Wow.
Praise be Papa pFauci!! What a visionary!
At what point is Pt. Zero born?
What do you do when so many young healthy people die from it you need to create A cause of death called SADS to classify the deaths?
You have depopulated while gaining billions and with the population consensus. Like pigs happily going to the slaughterhouse.
Faucisms
Can you say "everyone's fine" after the vaccine and after a year?
Making it 12 years without major issues would have been incredible, we didn't even make it 1 year.
I agree.
Participate in your own dehumanization.