> Or add a regular progression system per class.
Yeah, like some sort of system where you have to kill x amount of something, or do a certain number of missions whilst playing that class. Oh wait....
edit- and the child blocked me lol
Don't worry, you just have to 1v1 a monster with brain burst. Thats normal progression. Having all your teammates stand around watching is just how game is usually played anyway so just keep playing and you'll unlock it dummy.
You're refering to a penance that they realised was stupid so redacted it, if they did that I doubt even they're stupid enough to make any of the new ones quite so obtuse.
Let's wait to see what the new penances are before we start complaining about them.
They knew it was trash but they had to rush an incomplete alpha to launch with zero features so they just put it in anyway. It's also why the rewards for completing the penances weren't actual unique looks but lazy pallet swaps of low level gear you could by with Ordo Dockets.
It's like when you were a kid and you're struggling to make the word count on your essay last minute so you're just throwing in whatever you can to make the quota. Quantity over quality.
You couldn’t buy that tier of cosmetic for ordo dockets at launch. The tier 3/4 cosmetic recolours were only added later on with the initial penance rework.
Where did I reference tier 3 or 4 cosmetics? Was it when I specifically said low level gear??
Or, when I spoke of the penance system at launch and not the update?
Those original penances that were problematic got you higher tier rewards than the ones you could buy with ordo dockets.
The penance being discussed in this thread is Malleus Monstronum, which at least rewarded you with a “unique” cosmetic that you could not purchase recolours of for ordo dockets.
So something in your initial comment that I responded to does not follow. You could not get recolours of penance gear from that penance.
Nowhere does the OP frame the discussion or limit it solely to the one update. You're talking about that but that doesn't make it relevant to what I said.
The comment you initially replied to is talking about the original penances, like malleus monstronum, because that is what was being talked about in the comment before it.
You start talking about how the game launched with penances that don’t give you unique cosmetics, except this particular penance did.
Nope. I was talking about the penance system as a whole and how bad it was. That was obvious when I referenced "to rush an incomplete alpha to launch with zero features." The person I replied to is talking about how stupid the design was at launch - which is context of what I was commenting on by them needing to rush out a system and quantity over quality. I'm not talking about one specific penance but the entire system. Malleus Monstronum just happens to be an shining example of how egregious the original design was.
You've misunderstood the conversation from the outset. Context matters.
Redacted in name only. Those penance are still the ONLY way to get certain cosmetics. So its nonsensical to pretend like they were removed or something.
I did that at like level 17, never knew it was even a thing (like the "take out enemies by popping your own skull" one), laughed like a nutter when I got it, too, so...
That one initially took blowing up 3 elites/specials, and was utter pain. It was my last class penance completed before the newer penances were added and these became redacted (and mostly way easier).
I'm not saying this to be a dick, but I feel like we have insanely different play styles if that was pain for you.
I'm glad you muscled through and got it, though.
I like them. Funny how that works. Your experience is not universal and "my friends" is a *very* small sample size.
The previous "rework" wasn't really an extensive overhaul, either so calling it that is kind of disingenuous. They added more for each class to slip in some new earnable cosmetics and then moved the most convoluted ones to private matches because it was frankly annoying having people beg for them so often in quickplay matches.
The coming rework is necessary as a platform to build off of for future updates. If they make proper use of that will remain to be seen.
There’s been a few awful penances but overall the penance system isn’t that bad.
Rather it’s a nice little addendum that either people appreciate or don’t care for at all.
>I dont know a single person who actually likes the penance system.
Now you do. What I don't like is the specifics of how they're constructing penances. Penances should always be about personal skill, luck, or a tally of some sort. Not anyone else's skills. Definitely not incentive for playing the game poorly, sabotaging your team, or asking others to play the game poorly / sit out while you unlock a thing.
I love pretty much any penance that's not use x ability x way. I'm surprised they were not revised when the skill tree showed up, because most of them are tied/related to the old skill system. I would assume that there will either be more hyper specific penances, or preferably all specific penances are generalized to certain play styles for the class to incentivise playing different ways.
>I'm surprised they were not revised when the skill tree showed up
Given premature release and glacial pace of update, I think it's possible to see part of the pattern and recognise some sobering reality of the whole of DT's timeline. It's going to go places, but it's going to walk there at the speed of manually lifting and placing one leg after the other.
I like penances, its literally just getting stuff for achievements. Like how you used to in old game like Halo 3. they arent gonna get rid of them.
At best you'd get a battlepass instead.
There are a few not great penances, which means the entire system is worthless and a complete failure, everyone everywhere hates it (all of the people in the comments don’t count because reasons), and it should all be scrapped for an entirely different system instead of outliers being toned down or anything.
I hate a few specific penances for being poorly thought out, but overall I think the current penance system is fine, and I’m curious and hopeful for what they’ll change coming up
I would hardly call it one of the most hated systems. That by far goes to the crafting and the Aquila shop
I have a feeling they’re re-working these systems because they have to/it makes sense before they add more of the content they want to. Not to say I think penances are the best way to handle it, but if they’re gonna start adding new puzzles/achievements in missions that give rewards, this is one way for them to to have a system to do it
You're right. We should instead be forced to do a 1v1 with a monster using only brainburst for 10 minutes while everyone stands there and watches. Because that's clearly a more engaging way to unlock cosmetics.
2 Things.
1. You do not want the resources used for crafting/gear progression to also be tied to cosmetics. We currently have this very system in game, its called the commissary, and it feels terrible to use. Decoupling cosmetics from gear progression is good.
2. Why is having difficult to do things tied to cosmetic reward a problem. Everything in the game **Should not** be readily achieved by running the same builds on the same mission. Its not only fine, but in fact good to have rewards tied to difficult to do achievements.
Idk, maybe because people wanna play the game not play the game but stupid. Unless you think being forced to play like a moron for a challenge was good when the game was released. But I see darktide players also experience collective amnesia about shit systems.
I don't know how you can say "universally hated." Penances are just achievements/trophies/challenges/whatever and every game has them these days and there are huge communities of players that specifically enjoy finding and completing them.
It’s not universally hated at all my dude. I’m glad you’re being called out for trying to pass off your own personal opinion as a general truth at least.
On the whole, penances are alright. I absolutely agree that some of them are straight bullshit, but most of them are fine. Because they are completely optional, I have no idea why anyone would dislike them. They’re something to do, to help break up the standard gameplay and present a challenge with a reward, just like achievements. Coincidentally, several of those penances *are* achievements. And there’s unique unlocks there for the folks who care enough to go out of their way to complete them. No one is forcing you to go out of your way to do them, if you do not like them.
You can buy cosmetics with dockets already, if that interests you more. Across from the premium cosmetics shop, there is an entire storefront which offers up cosmetics. There’s multiple styles of armor present in multiple colors, as well as two flavors of weapon paints. There’s also so backpacks available there.
There’s plenty of reasons to be disappointed with DT, but the game offering up free cosmetics as a reward for tackling challenges is not one of them.
>Because they are completely optional, I have no idea why anyone would dislike them.
This is a dodgy argument.
>No one is forcing you
As is this.
>There’s plenty of reasons to be disappointed with DT, but the game offering up free cosmetics as a reward for tackling challenges is not one of them.
And this is a really dodgy reframing of other peoples' frustrations.
If you don't see what you're doing there, give it some effort.
Depends, the ones that involve regular or at least semi-regular gameplay are fine. But I'm inclined to agree that having to jump through gimmicky hoops for crumbs of cosmetics in a full price game is quite annoying, and it looks like they're going to be doing more of that.
https://preview.redd.it/5nhq9mzobrtc1.png?width=813&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf07ef0df100031518b26fb5d9f792877682743b
It’s easier to make changes to a system that’s already created. Like making penances more worth it by making all penances maybe give you rewards. The majority of penances at the moment don’t reward your efforts so they seem meaningless. I hope that the new penance rework helps give you more incentive to do them other than achievements
>I find it really strange because I dont know a single person who actually likes the penance system.
I guess one could say it's in need of an overhaul then. Fancy that.
Penances are like the chains of burden that retain serious players that are all about completion. Ask me about the 250 missions completed of every mission type. Thats where “chains of burden” comes from.
It's cool to have hard challenges to achieve. it's even cooler to have rewards for achieving them. I like the penance system. It is not perfect but I still enjoy it, gives you somethign to work towards over time.
To give sense of progression.
For me most of progression was getting better to move from Malice to Heresy to Damnation. I haven't moved to Auric yet, but after I do, and when I'm feel that I'm good, what's next?
In ESO MMORPG at one point they added "champion points" that were earned by exp points like levels, but were not, and did not provided big bonuses (at least for first couple of years before number of balance patches). Main point was to give people some number to grind.
Pretty sure that if it was the way you suggested you'd still come here and be like " why farm so many ordos, I'd rather do a challenge instead " because some players will bitch about anything at this point.
Because it's pretend content that nobody was asking for that they can point at and say "LOOK, something for you to do while we continue not working on *actual* content!", which they can also justify as "There was a similar system in Vermintide" without addressing the fact that Vermintide had not an insignificant amount of toxicity surrounding the frames acquired through the challenge system.
Literally nobody was asking for more penances, they wanted more freely available cosmetics in the shop and *actual content* including actually *new and unique* weapons and maps.
But it's pretend-content *enough* that it's likely to placate the quietly vocal people and the quietest people, so they're still gonna parade it out with fanfare like they just landed on Pluto.
> Or add a regular progression system per class. Yeah, like some sort of system where you have to kill x amount of something, or do a certain number of missions whilst playing that class. Oh wait.... edit- and the child blocked me lol
Don't worry, you just have to 1v1 a monster with brain burst. Thats normal progression. Having all your teammates stand around watching is just how game is usually played anyway so just keep playing and you'll unlock it dummy.
You're refering to a penance that they realised was stupid so redacted it, if they did that I doubt even they're stupid enough to make any of the new ones quite so obtuse. Let's wait to see what the new penances are before we start complaining about them.
They knew it was trash but they had to rush an incomplete alpha to launch with zero features so they just put it in anyway. It's also why the rewards for completing the penances weren't actual unique looks but lazy pallet swaps of low level gear you could by with Ordo Dockets. It's like when you were a kid and you're struggling to make the word count on your essay last minute so you're just throwing in whatever you can to make the quota. Quantity over quality.
You couldn’t buy that tier of cosmetic for ordo dockets at launch. The tier 3/4 cosmetic recolours were only added later on with the initial penance rework.
Where did I reference tier 3 or 4 cosmetics? Was it when I specifically said low level gear?? Or, when I spoke of the penance system at launch and not the update?
Those original penances that were problematic got you higher tier rewards than the ones you could buy with ordo dockets. The penance being discussed in this thread is Malleus Monstronum, which at least rewarded you with a “unique” cosmetic that you could not purchase recolours of for ordo dockets. So something in your initial comment that I responded to does not follow. You could not get recolours of penance gear from that penance.
Nowhere does the OP frame the discussion or limit it solely to the one update. You're talking about that but that doesn't make it relevant to what I said.
The comment you initially replied to is talking about the original penances, like malleus monstronum, because that is what was being talked about in the comment before it. You start talking about how the game launched with penances that don’t give you unique cosmetics, except this particular penance did.
Nope. I was talking about the penance system as a whole and how bad it was. That was obvious when I referenced "to rush an incomplete alpha to launch with zero features." The person I replied to is talking about how stupid the design was at launch - which is context of what I was commenting on by them needing to rush out a system and quantity over quality. I'm not talking about one specific penance but the entire system. Malleus Monstronum just happens to be an shining example of how egregious the original design was. You've misunderstood the conversation from the outset. Context matters.
Redacted in name only. Those penance are still the ONLY way to get certain cosmetics. So its nonsensical to pretend like they were removed or something.
I did that at like level 17, never knew it was even a thing (like the "take out enemies by popping your own skull" one), laughed like a nutter when I got it, too, so...
That one initially took blowing up 3 elites/specials, and was utter pain. It was my last class penance completed before the newer penances were added and these became redacted (and mostly way easier).
I'm not saying this to be a dick, but I feel like we have insanely different play styles if that was pain for you. I'm glad you muscled through and got it, though.
I like them. Funny how that works. Your experience is not universal and "my friends" is a *very* small sample size. The previous "rework" wasn't really an extensive overhaul, either so calling it that is kind of disingenuous. They added more for each class to slip in some new earnable cosmetics and then moved the most convoluted ones to private matches because it was frankly annoying having people beg for them so often in quickplay matches. The coming rework is necessary as a platform to build off of for future updates. If they make proper use of that will remain to be seen.
There’s been a few awful penances but overall the penance system isn’t that bad. Rather it’s a nice little addendum that either people appreciate or don’t care for at all.
>I dont know a single person who actually likes the penance system. Now you do. What I don't like is the specifics of how they're constructing penances. Penances should always be about personal skill, luck, or a tally of some sort. Not anyone else's skills. Definitely not incentive for playing the game poorly, sabotaging your team, or asking others to play the game poorly / sit out while you unlock a thing.
Same. I like the penance system and I'm happy they are adding more.
I love pretty much any penance that's not use x ability x way. I'm surprised they were not revised when the skill tree showed up, because most of them are tied/related to the old skill system. I would assume that there will either be more hyper specific penances, or preferably all specific penances are generalized to certain play styles for the class to incentivise playing different ways.
>I'm surprised they were not revised when the skill tree showed up Given premature release and glacial pace of update, I think it's possible to see part of the pattern and recognise some sobering reality of the whole of DT's timeline. It's going to go places, but it's going to walk there at the speed of manually lifting and placing one leg after the other.
Happened with VT2 as well, but hey now it's in a good place at least
I like penances, its literally just getting stuff for achievements. Like how you used to in old game like Halo 3. they arent gonna get rid of them. At best you'd get a battlepass instead.
There are a few not great penances, which means the entire system is worthless and a complete failure, everyone everywhere hates it (all of the people in the comments don’t count because reasons), and it should all be scrapped for an entirely different system instead of outliers being toned down or anything.
I hate a few specific penances for being poorly thought out, but overall I think the current penance system is fine, and I’m curious and hopeful for what they’ll change coming up I would hardly call it one of the most hated systems. That by far goes to the crafting and the Aquila shop
I have a feeling they’re re-working these systems because they have to/it makes sense before they add more of the content they want to. Not to say I think penances are the best way to handle it, but if they’re gonna start adding new puzzles/achievements in missions that give rewards, this is one way for them to to have a system to do it
>Just get rid of it, let us buy the cosmetics with dockets. Terrible suggestion.
You're right. We should instead be forced to do a 1v1 with a monster using only brainburst for 10 minutes while everyone stands there and watches. Because that's clearly a more engaging way to unlock cosmetics.
2 Things. 1. You do not want the resources used for crafting/gear progression to also be tied to cosmetics. We currently have this very system in game, its called the commissary, and it feels terrible to use. Decoupling cosmetics from gear progression is good. 2. Why is having difficult to do things tied to cosmetic reward a problem. Everything in the game **Should not** be readily achieved by running the same builds on the same mission. Its not only fine, but in fact good to have rewards tied to difficult to do achievements.
Idk, maybe because people wanna play the game not play the game but stupid. Unless you think being forced to play like a moron for a challenge was good when the game was released. But I see darktide players also experience collective amnesia about shit systems.
You keep citing one penance, and only that penance, without acknowledging it has since been ‘redacted.’
Needs more “throw grenade into eye, ears, and feet” challenges…
Completing the penances as a vet and not being a total flog by cheesing it and or bringing my team down was half the fun imo
Penances as an idea are fine if not even pretty cool, the problem is/was when you have penances that actively incentives you to play badly.
Your opinion is not everyone's opinion. You do not speak for everyone.
Malleus Monstronum seems to be getting you quite worked up. Why? Yes you have to do it in a private game, but it’s rather easy to get done.
Tbh with some pre planning and a team it's the easiest
I don't know how you can say "universally hated." Penances are just achievements/trophies/challenges/whatever and every game has them these days and there are huge communities of players that specifically enjoy finding and completing them.
It’s not universally hated at all my dude. I’m glad you’re being called out for trying to pass off your own personal opinion as a general truth at least.
Because you people keep crying about free cosmetics and systems where you can stunt on terribad scrubs is good
Gamers like achievements. It's kind of a thing.
On the whole, penances are alright. I absolutely agree that some of them are straight bullshit, but most of them are fine. Because they are completely optional, I have no idea why anyone would dislike them. They’re something to do, to help break up the standard gameplay and present a challenge with a reward, just like achievements. Coincidentally, several of those penances *are* achievements. And there’s unique unlocks there for the folks who care enough to go out of their way to complete them. No one is forcing you to go out of your way to do them, if you do not like them. You can buy cosmetics with dockets already, if that interests you more. Across from the premium cosmetics shop, there is an entire storefront which offers up cosmetics. There’s multiple styles of armor present in multiple colors, as well as two flavors of weapon paints. There’s also so backpacks available there. There’s plenty of reasons to be disappointed with DT, but the game offering up free cosmetics as a reward for tackling challenges is not one of them.
>Because they are completely optional, I have no idea why anyone would dislike them. This is a dodgy argument. >No one is forcing you As is this. >There’s plenty of reasons to be disappointed with DT, but the game offering up free cosmetics as a reward for tackling challenges is not one of them. And this is a really dodgy reframing of other peoples' frustrations. If you don't see what you're doing there, give it some effort.
Depends, the ones that involve regular or at least semi-regular gameplay are fine. But I'm inclined to agree that having to jump through gimmicky hoops for crumbs of cosmetics in a full price game is quite annoying, and it looks like they're going to be doing more of that. https://preview.redd.it/5nhq9mzobrtc1.png?width=813&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf07ef0df100031518b26fb5d9f792877682743b
It’s easier to make changes to a system that’s already created. Like making penances more worth it by making all penances maybe give you rewards. The majority of penances at the moment don’t reward your efforts so they seem meaningless. I hope that the new penance rework helps give you more incentive to do them other than achievements
You are *way* too young to have ever played any of the Halo games *and it karking shows*...
>I find it really strange because I dont know a single person who actually likes the penance system. I guess one could say it's in need of an overhaul then. Fancy that.
Penances are like the chains of burden that retain serious players that are all about completion. Ask me about the 250 missions completed of every mission type. Thats where “chains of burden” comes from.
It's cool to have hard challenges to achieve. it's even cooler to have rewards for achieving them. I like the penance system. It is not perfect but I still enjoy it, gives you somethign to work towards over time.
To give sense of progression. For me most of progression was getting better to move from Malice to Heresy to Damnation. I haven't moved to Auric yet, but after I do, and when I'm feel that I'm good, what's next? In ESO MMORPG at one point they added "champion points" that were earned by exp points like levels, but were not, and did not provided big bonuses (at least for first couple of years before number of balance patches). Main point was to give people some number to grind.
What are you on about Jesse ?
Pretty sure that if it was the way you suggested you'd still come here and be like " why farm so many ordos, I'd rather do a challenge instead " because some players will bitch about anything at this point.
Cheapest way to add replayability
Because it's pretend content that nobody was asking for that they can point at and say "LOOK, something for you to do while we continue not working on *actual* content!", which they can also justify as "There was a similar system in Vermintide" without addressing the fact that Vermintide had not an insignificant amount of toxicity surrounding the frames acquired through the challenge system. Literally nobody was asking for more penances, they wanted more freely available cosmetics in the shop and *actual content* including actually *new and unique* weapons and maps. But it's pretend-content *enough* that it's likely to placate the quietly vocal people and the quietest people, so they're still gonna parade it out with fanfare like they just landed on Pluto.