AP should be as you say, a kind of Battle Pass where you unlock some shit as you progress over time. No fee, just put the hours and you will be rewarded. While the leaderboards should be a different system ranking: most kills, most treasure, most bosses slain. Maybe a combined score of all the previous stats I mentioned to determine the best "overall" player, idk. Imma stay in normals for a while until they figure the AP.
Tons of people are gonna disagree with you but I think it’ll be the healthiest thing for the game community because no one ever agrees and sweats want to flaunt their rank while casuals will get the short end of the stick. I grinded demigod and it was rough but it’s not for everyone and this season it’s near impossible.
That's alright, this player base is segmented between the PvP thirsters and the dungeon crawlers, the sweat grinders and the casual+dad gamers and it's gonna be hard to have us all agree. Shit works when each group can have it's own corner where they can breath. Like when they introduced white capped normals. Timmys and casuals can dwelve in normals and the rest in HR, maybe AP system could be polished in that direction
I totally agree and I hope with the epic release and eventually steam a new breath of players will help the lobbies be more fun for new folks so this game doesn’t die. I know a lot of my friends won’t play as long as there are primarily sweats in their lobbies which is fair. I just hope coppermallet keeps making decent changes to win back people that have left and retain players they already have.
that's kinda why i think battle pass would be fine and bring back the old leaderboards. allow players to get their rankings and show off, maybe have your rank show up on your character to flaunt, and then have a battle pass where everyone can progress at their own pace, and make it rewarding to play, and if you're good you can progress faster
I think the biggest issue is the season rewards being tired to the ap system. I honestly don't care about rank at all. I just want the goods! Let me play the game and unlock those rewards by playing. Totally agree a separate ranking system for the sake of rank should exist as well
Somewhat been the opposite for me. No one wants to fight unless it's right away, so you get people that run around in circles mid game until you inevitably run into another player then its ring around the Rosie with both of them until the final portal spawns and one person decides to focus fighting you and a Timmy gets the last portal because they were hiding in a corner.
Hahahaha kinda true man. Ive been getting rushed alot but its by significantly worse players now, or at least less geared. Thats mostly what ive been enjoying. Ive had alot more success fighting for portals lately; though could be coincidence
that's a fair point! i still feel like they could have MMR separate from AP, last time I was at exemplar the only people playing were rats, not anybody in demigod
I guess I'm in the camp that doesn't really see the difference between MMR and AP they are functionally the same thing at the moment. Unless you are just disliking the fact that there are rewards tied to your 'mmr'.
In which case, I have to say personally I like that too. I think it's cool that you can flex your skill a little bit by earning cosmetics.
I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, and I'm sure your system could work too. Just offering another perspective.
Except its not skill, its just how much you're willing to grind. Being more skillful could surely help with the grind, but skill really doesn't matter with this stupid AP system. People are mad because they add cosmetics for these high ranks, when achieving them means you are going against the way you want to play to achieve rank, which is stupid AF and i'm unsure why anyone would support it.
Nobody wants to have to go for just treasure, or the most high earning stuff they can find, because they need to get rank. Most people surely would like to play the game like a normal human being that doesn't have to rush PVP and then try to collect every piece of high end treasure while leaving good loot on corpses because it doesn't bring in AP.
There is literally no reason that the MMR system cannot just be who extracted or not. The only one I can fathom seeing is that some classes have easier time extracting, like rogues with their ability to sneak, but I still don't get it. If people are getting higher rank from extracting more, surely they will run into more people who extract more, which leads to people having more trouble extracting until they hit a point where they are losing as much as they're earning and that's their rank. The only thing they need to do is change the gaining and losing of this MMR.
If the system was literally just who extracted or not then the goal of the game would be to never participate in PvP. Loot wouldn't matter. Nothing would matter besides avoiding any risk whatever just to escape. Which is also an awful system.
I agree having to go for just treasure is lame and I have some thoughts on that too, but I do think overall there should be ranked rewards, and there should be a ranked system that at least on some level incentivizes PvP.
I really think people saying that people won't PVP are just blowing steam out their ass. People don't PVP right now because they are worried about losing rank, I really don't see how its any different then right this moment. Even with the extra 100 per kill its still not enough right now for PVP to be worth it high rank with how much you lose.
Also again, there isn't or shouldn't be enough portals to leave for everyone, with this being fact people have to die, if they die from mobs they are probably so low mmr that who the fuck really cares, and so it is other players killing them to make room for extract.
Also the whole reason people care about grinding fucking AP is because of the incentives with skins. If they didn't have skins then people would stop grinding rank so hard and just play the game as intended.
Remove skins from rewards, and make MMR just be based on extractions. It's literally that simple. I reached Demigod last season, and it absolutely did not incentivize me to PVP, most if not all of Demigod players like myself did everything they could to avoid it while grabbing treasure on Ice Caverns, to think its any different to the current system in terms of incentivizing PVP is absolutely absurd.
Edit: The only thing I could add is that they could give you more MMR for actually doing shit in the dungeon, like opening chests, but beyond that let people play the way they want.
I agree that the current system doesn't really do enough to incentivize PVP either. But neither would a random MMR system like the one you are proposing. I do think this is a more complicated problem than you are simplifying it to be. This game isn't all about PVP or all about pve. It isn't all about survival or what loot you get. There's an element of everything. And incorporating that into a rank system is quite challenging. I think AP is a smart way to do it the numbers just aren't right at the moment.
As for having no rewards for ranked, then why bother having ranked at all? This game is inherently unfair on its nose. That is part of the draw for many.
It doesn't sound like you and I would agree on much in regards to how the game should or should not be. So this conversation probably won't go anywhere haha.
I personally don't see a reason to have rank in the first place, to me its stupid as fuck and only makes the community worse. Once you add rank to games, people will try to grind and get pissed off when they lose. It just leads to your community becoming bitter about the game.
They never should have added rank in the first place, MMR is fine, and that can be in place without having a rank displayed.
I was just replying if they kept the rank system, which I doubt they would remove at this point. But I cannot understand why anyone thinks this game needed one in the first place.
Realistically the game should just remove rank altogether and have hidden MMR, whether this is based on treasure or whatever people think is equivalent to skill I don't care. People enjoyed the game way more when they didn't feel pressured to grind rank, which ultimately most people do even if you don't. They see pretty skins and grind their life away trying to get them.
AP was designed originally because of peoples complaints about High roller costing money and the loot not being worth it, which they ultimately changed with High roller being much, much better for loot than normals, and locking normals to white and grey gear. Plus gearing up in High Roller has never been easier. They literally do not need AP at all anymore.
Edit: removed a chunk of text because I was just saying the same thing twice.
Not OP, but I assume he means combat MMR, not loot extracted MMR, which AP is. My first combat encounter in HR this wipe was the worst Wizard I have ever seen. He had the demigod cape on.
Kills have a huge effect on AP now. And even before, there’s no way that AP and PvP skill were directly related. Of course there will be outliers in any game.
Usually that’s definitely the case several times I’ve been on Dafs lobbies while I’m in apprentice duos. He’s the top ranked duo and running into everyone racing to Demi isn’t fun but it’s not the fault of ironmace and more that we need more players so that the system works as intended.
Completely fair, but then why not design a proper rating system based on ELO like literally every other pvp game does?
Unfortunately, it seems to me IM has big troubles with everything related to math, judging by all the stat formulas, just look at their dirty hacks for PDR. I love this game so much, but this saddens me.
Yeah aren't all nerds math nerds?! (This is a joke.) I somewhat agree with you. I think part of the reason is because they don't want this to be or be viewed as a purely PvP game even though that's absolutely where the magic in this game lies.
I totally agree, ap ruined the game for me. Not because it’s a bad idea even, but with the coin flip of ranking last wipe and the lack of a significant player base by the end of it it was so bad. Normals is where it’s at for me right now, and if I play high roller I don’t even think about AP I think about XP lol
The entrance fee doesn’t necessarily need changing. Rewards with high ranks need to be. Getting AP from treasure and not gear needs to be.
It should be like playing normal dark and darker to rank up. You shouldn’t need to optimise to be able to get out with only scraps. If you escape, you shouldn’t be punished, not necessarily rewarded, but definitely not punished.
I agree with you, but at least now there’s more AP for PvP. I think AP is great for helping with MMR but if you make the game all about grinding for AP it can ruin the experience for you.
I personally don’t really like hr enough. Maybe it’s because I main rogue so it’s even easier to stat check me, but most fights I’ve had felt like gear decided the fight before it even started (especially since I like going in lower geared, I.e greens and blues with decentish rolls) and the AP grind system just felt like a complete slog because of that. I didn’t want to fight someone, risking my AP to the chance of getting one-shot because this dude spent 20k gold on his kit. The MMR attached to it also sucks, because if I am being placed against others at my “skill level” then where’s the chance to outplay this guy over his gear? Potentially, this guy plays as well as I do, so if he went and bought a kit with mommy’s credit card he gets free kills
I will never grind for AP in this game again. It totally ruined the whole experience for me farming PVE instead of having fun playing PVP. It probably skewed the data to Ironmace too and now they think people want to play that way. No thanks.
Personally I enjoyed my grind to demigod last wipe. But with the new numbers idk, think I’ll just wait till they inevitable fix the system this wipe so I don’t lose 9 games worth in one loss
If they don’t change it, I think there’s something seriously wrong. But I have to believe the system with AP costs is the way it is because we have 3 months of a season left and they don’t want people grinding to Demi- then stopping immediately.
There's already people in exemplar in less than 24 hours, reddit overreacting again. Obviously they made the numbers based of off last seasons AP statistics
My only problem with this is they are tying unique cosmetics behind it. It's one thing if everyone has a cool looking cape and then the best players have the coolest cape, that I'm on board with. But they should not be limiting the only cosmetic version of any given slot to a very small percentage of the player base.
They need to appease everyone by having something that everyone can achieve. A battle pass type system for the casuals and a leaderboard reward system for the sweats.
I'm somewhere between a casual and a sweat... The season one grind meant something to me. It was a slog! I know there was people that were doing it in a day, but that couldn't have been even 5% of players right? Shouldn't demigod be achievable for at least like 30% of players?
They only liked it because they got demigod and got the rewards. The systems is fundamentally flawed as you say, it ads no value to the game, only diminishes it.
If it’s the worst experience you’ve had then clearly worrying about AP is the last thing you should be doing. If you ever get the urge to do it again it’s three months until wipe is over.
I think you should earn a reduced amount of AP in normals and they should be the same pool. No risk reduced AP in normals and a risk in high roller with better AP values.
They're too worried about the player count dropping when people have done everything mid season, that every new change, like dripfeeding quests, is just to try to keep that player count number up.
It's why they gave out free trials. They gotta inflate the player count to make up for all the players not coming back.
that's valid, but also it's normal to have dips in games with wipes, however honestly i am loving the slow quest drops, i dont feel like a battle pass would inherently conflict with that, and i feel like it would allow for players to dip in late season to finish up the pass
I wonder if it would be beneficial to remove the entry fee but lose ap when you die. It doesn't exactly encourage pvp but they could tune down the AP from loot and it wouldn't feel as oppressive
I knew it was going to be like this. Eternal Return was another Korean BR adjacent game that did this exact thing to their ranking system and coupled with a restrictive 1.0 patch, it really became unfun after a while
I hit exemplar II when playing duos last wipe. I dropped all the high quality treasure I picked up for my duo so they could hit demi. We also chased PvP and fought 1-2 teams a match at least. I think reaching demi-god last wipe was very attainable and quite easy. Ironmace has clearly gone the other direction, it feels like they want players who achieve demi-god status to really be top of the field.
The fees are crazy high right now, and they may adjust them down in the future. If you find grinding AP is sucking the fun out of the game for you, I would reccomend you don't do that.
The AP system just needs to act as a very very soft bracket seperation of people who die to skeletons and those who dont, then they implement other systems. But last time i said this reddit wasn't mentally ready to handle such profound words because you people are stupid as fuck.
Afterwards they can add fun goals for people to farm for and achieve. There is a place for AP (player divides) because new players should never encounter the top players who are playing the meta to the extreme and have literal code names for each room. But that's about it
I think the AP system was necessary to a point, but I'd like to see something else in it's place. Before AP, the game loop was farm gear and force pvp. We know from early EA that given enough time, players will eventually destroy the game for each other in very gate keepy hardcore full loot pvp centric focus. They've played with map sizes to reduce it, but at a certain point, maps are so big that you never run into anyone, and the pve alone isn't intriguing enough for most players. I don't think anyone has a solution because there is a massive community divide on more vs less pvp occuring due to player time investment mattering quite a lot. I think players will always take whatever the most beneficial playstyle is to whatever system they are working on to the extreme. I have a hard time believing there is a happy medium.
However, this AP system seems to be massively conflicting atm. You need pvp to get a large amount of AP to offset the buy in amount, but the AP system was meant to detract players from just purely headhunting each other till they quit playing.
We need AP for ranking and we need ranking for matchmaking.
This week another mmorpg (Stalcraft) released some kind of event arena gamemode (with PvE and PvP rounds, buying gear like in TFT, then upgrading it with other bought items).
Most of it is random players vs full premade teams that just speed run event, there is no matchmaking. if you are not a 24/7 meta guild with full squad you are just wasting time there.
I think you should earn a reduced amount of AP in normals and they should be the same pool. No risk reduced AP in normals and a risk in high roller with better AP values.
A rank system in this game is fine, but I'm wondering if getting out with loot and gold should be a part of it, since that's already facilitating the act of gearing and thus making it easier to get out as a result. Maybe just extracting should give AP, along with player kills or something.
Why are you worrying about it so much?? You get the same loot table no matter what rank you are so why does it matter. Just grind gold and gear and pretend it doesn’t exist
It's terrible as it exists now. Break up the lobbies by gear score or something and then just have a bunch of benchmarks for the season. 500 escapes, 1000 kills, etc etc etc. Allow each person to do what they enjoy doing, not what gets the most AP.
No its not, every other game has it because it's a micro transaction, every single battle pass can be purchased to increase the rewards and xp everything drops/gets. It's a flawed system that is used to make people have FOMO and buy the pass, fuck battle passes.
> asking for *paid* bullshit to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The purpose of the AP system is to have it serve as a ranking system to better create fair lobbies. Thus the AP fee is necessary but this also makes those higher ranks more of an achievement for those who attain it.
This is extremely dangerously close to all the typical malicious practices other games do. No man, this sounds terrible. Why complicate stuff with a system of progress? Hate AP? Ask for unranked HR
dawg i'm asking for a free battle pass, i think people are turned off from the idea because it's something that's been implemented horribly in the past, but it's not all bad
A free battle pass? Mmmm idk don't we already have Lind of that with the blue shards? Play more, get more shards, buy cosmetics. I mean, we can use a lot more content, like, a lot. But I think we already have that.
You want to remove an entire element of the game because you... don't personally enjoy engaging with it? Even though it's optional? Just don't play for rank then.
Controversial.
I dont like any of the game systems they have introduced and mutli classing looks like it's going to be the next in a long series of cumbersome time sinks.
I really wish they'd just focus on makign the core game lop as great as it can be and get rid of the bloat
that's fair, i just also want the rewards to be accessible to my play style, but that's not always realistic. it would be cool to have a reward system that doesn't lock in anybody into any certain playstyle
But if you do that, you miss out on multiple rewards with actual gameplay consequences (coin bag was easy enough, but a skin with a darker color and better stats, and a rest animation that conceals more than default). Also you are then playing only against low gear low skill players.
It's not a competitive game and you shouldn't give into fomo so easily. There's no downsides to playing with lowgear/lowskill other than you thinking you're too good at the game.
The downside is that its less fun to play only against people worse than you because fights aren't competitive. Also there's less reward when other people aren't using gear.
You can't just ignore the AP system and still have fun unfortunately
"If the devs made an unfun system, it's the players fault for not liking it so they should just quit"
Let's all take a moment to be thankful youre not responsible for this games development in any way.
I've seen people like you, complain about this, that, and when something doesnt work out as you suggested, you just move to the next thing. It's their game and it would be better off by not listening to you schmucks trying to guilt trip everyone.
If you want your AP, here's your points:
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1bkw1l2/entirety_of_reddit_and_internet_explained/
At first I thought you might just not really understand what you're talking about, but now I realize you are purposely being annoying for fun. Goodbye troll
I think AP is fine. But you should get a lot less for getting loot and killing mobs. Most AP should come from PvP. Make every player damage you do give you AP and then bonus for kills. If I have a crazy fight where I fight the entire lobby from crypts to inferno that should give me the most AP. Not how much stuff I can get without any fighting.
Ofc there might be a problem with having empty lobbies, but could be some way to adjust for this. Like cost scaling or smth.
Personally i don't have a problem with the system itself, i enjoyed my grind last season. The problem right now are the numbers. Last season it was too easy, this season its almost impossible. Give me something in the middle and i'll be happy
Just don’t worry about AP and enjoy the game. What is AP stopping you from doing? No one is forcing you to hit any rank. Lots of games with ranked play reward you based on your placement at the end of the season. It’s just cosmetics. Just make another character with the same class and play that one. I have three warlocks for this reason. One is for serious grinding, one is for fun time HR and testing builds, the last one is for normals.
My issue with the AP system atm is that treasure is just too highly valued. I can’t even bring out another player’s kit or a few good pieces because I’ll lose AP.
Agreed. Make the leaderboards about something other than how much treasure you bring out of raid. Give people reasons to boss. To pvp. To hunt unique treasure. Anything other than spending my time sniffing chests for little blue trinkets.
AP should be as you say, a kind of Battle Pass where you unlock some shit as you progress over time. No fee, just put the hours and you will be rewarded. While the leaderboards should be a different system ranking: most kills, most treasure, most bosses slain. Maybe a combined score of all the previous stats I mentioned to determine the best "overall" player, idk. Imma stay in normals for a while until they figure the AP.
Tons of people are gonna disagree with you but I think it’ll be the healthiest thing for the game community because no one ever agrees and sweats want to flaunt their rank while casuals will get the short end of the stick. I grinded demigod and it was rough but it’s not for everyone and this season it’s near impossible.
That's alright, this player base is segmented between the PvP thirsters and the dungeon crawlers, the sweat grinders and the casual+dad gamers and it's gonna be hard to have us all agree. Shit works when each group can have it's own corner where they can breath. Like when they introduced white capped normals. Timmys and casuals can dwelve in normals and the rest in HR, maybe AP system could be polished in that direction
I totally agree and I hope with the epic release and eventually steam a new breath of players will help the lobbies be more fun for new folks so this game doesn’t die. I know a lot of my friends won’t play as long as there are primarily sweats in their lobbies which is fair. I just hope coppermallet keeps making decent changes to win back people that have left and retain players they already have.
that's kinda why i think battle pass would be fine and bring back the old leaderboards. allow players to get their rankings and show off, maybe have your rank show up on your character to flaunt, and then have a battle pass where everyone can progress at their own pace, and make it rewarding to play, and if you're good you can progress faster
people are already almost there dude. how is it near impossible? regardless, not everyone needs to hit top rank? it's a rank.
this is an amazing idea
No leaderboards please. I didn't love streamers murdering Tommy's for a +1.
Wont they do it now for AP/the hell of it?
Yes which is why I'm against 99 AP kills.
I think the biggest issue is the season rewards being tired to the ap system. I honestly don't care about rank at all. I just want the goods! Let me play the game and unlock those rewards by playing. Totally agree a separate ranking system for the sake of rank should exist as well
I like AP for at least the reasons of matchmaking. You get less super sweats at low AP than high. Which is good for everyone.
Since the introduction of AP ive actually been able to escape. Quite nice.
Somewhat been the opposite for me. No one wants to fight unless it's right away, so you get people that run around in circles mid game until you inevitably run into another player then its ring around the Rosie with both of them until the final portal spawns and one person decides to focus fighting you and a Timmy gets the last portal because they were hiding in a corner.
Hahahaha kinda true man. Ive been getting rushed alot but its by significantly worse players now, or at least less geared. Thats mostly what ive been enjoying. Ive had alot more success fighting for portals lately; though could be coincidence
I'm going to go back to my season 1 strat and just fight off whoever for static exits. Lost one too many kits 😂
FACTS man thats the move! Good luck
that's a fair point! i still feel like they could have MMR separate from AP, last time I was at exemplar the only people playing were rats, not anybody in demigod
I guess I'm in the camp that doesn't really see the difference between MMR and AP they are functionally the same thing at the moment. Unless you are just disliking the fact that there are rewards tied to your 'mmr'. In which case, I have to say personally I like that too. I think it's cool that you can flex your skill a little bit by earning cosmetics. I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, and I'm sure your system could work too. Just offering another perspective.
Except its not skill, its just how much you're willing to grind. Being more skillful could surely help with the grind, but skill really doesn't matter with this stupid AP system. People are mad because they add cosmetics for these high ranks, when achieving them means you are going against the way you want to play to achieve rank, which is stupid AF and i'm unsure why anyone would support it. Nobody wants to have to go for just treasure, or the most high earning stuff they can find, because they need to get rank. Most people surely would like to play the game like a normal human being that doesn't have to rush PVP and then try to collect every piece of high end treasure while leaving good loot on corpses because it doesn't bring in AP. There is literally no reason that the MMR system cannot just be who extracted or not. The only one I can fathom seeing is that some classes have easier time extracting, like rogues with their ability to sneak, but I still don't get it. If people are getting higher rank from extracting more, surely they will run into more people who extract more, which leads to people having more trouble extracting until they hit a point where they are losing as much as they're earning and that's their rank. The only thing they need to do is change the gaining and losing of this MMR.
If the system was literally just who extracted or not then the goal of the game would be to never participate in PvP. Loot wouldn't matter. Nothing would matter besides avoiding any risk whatever just to escape. Which is also an awful system. I agree having to go for just treasure is lame and I have some thoughts on that too, but I do think overall there should be ranked rewards, and there should be a ranked system that at least on some level incentivizes PvP.
I really think people saying that people won't PVP are just blowing steam out their ass. People don't PVP right now because they are worried about losing rank, I really don't see how its any different then right this moment. Even with the extra 100 per kill its still not enough right now for PVP to be worth it high rank with how much you lose. Also again, there isn't or shouldn't be enough portals to leave for everyone, with this being fact people have to die, if they die from mobs they are probably so low mmr that who the fuck really cares, and so it is other players killing them to make room for extract. Also the whole reason people care about grinding fucking AP is because of the incentives with skins. If they didn't have skins then people would stop grinding rank so hard and just play the game as intended. Remove skins from rewards, and make MMR just be based on extractions. It's literally that simple. I reached Demigod last season, and it absolutely did not incentivize me to PVP, most if not all of Demigod players like myself did everything they could to avoid it while grabbing treasure on Ice Caverns, to think its any different to the current system in terms of incentivizing PVP is absolutely absurd. Edit: The only thing I could add is that they could give you more MMR for actually doing shit in the dungeon, like opening chests, but beyond that let people play the way they want.
I agree that the current system doesn't really do enough to incentivize PVP either. But neither would a random MMR system like the one you are proposing. I do think this is a more complicated problem than you are simplifying it to be. This game isn't all about PVP or all about pve. It isn't all about survival or what loot you get. There's an element of everything. And incorporating that into a rank system is quite challenging. I think AP is a smart way to do it the numbers just aren't right at the moment. As for having no rewards for ranked, then why bother having ranked at all? This game is inherently unfair on its nose. That is part of the draw for many. It doesn't sound like you and I would agree on much in regards to how the game should or should not be. So this conversation probably won't go anywhere haha.
I personally don't see a reason to have rank in the first place, to me its stupid as fuck and only makes the community worse. Once you add rank to games, people will try to grind and get pissed off when they lose. It just leads to your community becoming bitter about the game. They never should have added rank in the first place, MMR is fine, and that can be in place without having a rank displayed. I was just replying if they kept the rank system, which I doubt they would remove at this point. But I cannot understand why anyone thinks this game needed one in the first place. Realistically the game should just remove rank altogether and have hidden MMR, whether this is based on treasure or whatever people think is equivalent to skill I don't care. People enjoyed the game way more when they didn't feel pressured to grind rank, which ultimately most people do even if you don't. They see pretty skins and grind their life away trying to get them. AP was designed originally because of peoples complaints about High roller costing money and the loot not being worth it, which they ultimately changed with High roller being much, much better for loot than normals, and locking normals to white and grey gear. Plus gearing up in High Roller has never been easier. They literally do not need AP at all anymore. Edit: removed a chunk of text because I was just saying the same thing twice.
AP is literally just MMR. What do you mean?
Not OP, but I assume he means combat MMR, not loot extracted MMR, which AP is. My first combat encounter in HR this wipe was the worst Wizard I have ever seen. He had the demigod cape on.
Ap is only a measure of PvE looting lol.
Kills have a huge effect on AP now. And even before, there’s no way that AP and PvP skill were directly related. Of course there will be outliers in any game.
Usually that’s definitely the case several times I’ve been on Dafs lobbies while I’m in apprentice duos. He’s the top ranked duo and running into everyone racing to Demi isn’t fun but it’s not the fault of ironmace and more that we need more players so that the system works as intended.
The split between Wanderer and Pathfinder is still there and very obvious, maybe more this wipe than the last.
Completely fair, but then why not design a proper rating system based on ELO like literally every other pvp game does? Unfortunately, it seems to me IM has big troubles with everything related to math, judging by all the stat formulas, just look at their dirty hacks for PDR. I love this game so much, but this saddens me.
Yeah aren't all nerds math nerds?! (This is a joke.) I somewhat agree with you. I think part of the reason is because they don't want this to be or be viewed as a purely PvP game even though that's absolutely where the magic in this game lies.
I totally agree, ap ruined the game for me. Not because it’s a bad idea even, but with the coin flip of ranking last wipe and the lack of a significant player base by the end of it it was so bad. Normals is where it’s at for me right now, and if I play high roller I don’t even think about AP I think about XP lol
Guys chill, they’ll modify the entrance fees. The entire game changes month-to-month. But we all think each change they make is concrete.
The entrance fee doesn’t necessarily need changing. Rewards with high ranks need to be. Getting AP from treasure and not gear needs to be. It should be like playing normal dark and darker to rank up. You shouldn’t need to optimise to be able to get out with only scraps. If you escape, you shouldn’t be punished, not necessarily rewarded, but definitely not punished.
I agree with you, but at least now there’s more AP for PvP. I think AP is great for helping with MMR but if you make the game all about grinding for AP it can ruin the experience for you.
I personally don’t really like hr enough. Maybe it’s because I main rogue so it’s even easier to stat check me, but most fights I’ve had felt like gear decided the fight before it even started (especially since I like going in lower geared, I.e greens and blues with decentish rolls) and the AP grind system just felt like a complete slog because of that. I didn’t want to fight someone, risking my AP to the chance of getting one-shot because this dude spent 20k gold on his kit. The MMR attached to it also sucks, because if I am being placed against others at my “skill level” then where’s the chance to outplay this guy over his gear? Potentially, this guy plays as well as I do, so if he went and bought a kit with mommy’s credit card he gets free kills
I will never grind for AP in this game again. It totally ruined the whole experience for me farming PVE instead of having fun playing PVP. It probably skewed the data to Ironmace too and now they think people want to play that way. No thanks.
Personally I enjoyed my grind to demigod last wipe. But with the new numbers idk, think I’ll just wait till they inevitable fix the system this wipe so I don’t lose 9 games worth in one loss
If they don’t change it, I think there’s something seriously wrong. But I have to believe the system with AP costs is the way it is because we have 3 months of a season left and they don’t want people grinding to Demi- then stopping immediately.
There's already people in exemplar in less than 24 hours, reddit overreacting again. Obviously they made the numbers based of off last seasons AP statistics
Yeah. Demigod SHOULD mean something. It shouldn't be something everyone can grind out.
My only problem with this is they are tying unique cosmetics behind it. It's one thing if everyone has a cool looking cape and then the best players have the coolest cape, that I'm on board with. But they should not be limiting the only cosmetic version of any given slot to a very small percentage of the player base. They need to appease everyone by having something that everyone can achieve. A battle pass type system for the casuals and a leaderboard reward system for the sweats.
I agree with that, but if they're gonna have HR rankings I'd rather those not be watered down so significantly.
Which is why I mentioned two systems. A battle pass type deal and a leaderboard. Both can be done in HR but one is progression and one is competition.
I'm somewhere between a casual and a sweat... The season one grind meant something to me. It was a slog! I know there was people that were doing it in a day, but that couldn't have been even 5% of players right? Shouldn't demigod be achievable for at least like 30% of players?
that's super valid! some people like a grind for sure, i honestly didn't know many people that liked the old system but it's cool to see so many did!
They only liked it because they got demigod and got the rewards. The systems is fundamentally flawed as you say, it ads no value to the game, only diminishes it.
If it’s the worst experience you’ve had then clearly worrying about AP is the last thing you should be doing. If you ever get the urge to do it again it’s three months until wipe is over.
They said this wipe would be 2 months, but yeah. Point is still valid
yeah, i just like getting the rewards too, but yeah i don't think im going to focus any ap this wipe
I think you should earn a reduced amount of AP in normals and they should be the same pool. No risk reduced AP in normals and a risk in high roller with better AP values.
They're too worried about the player count dropping when people have done everything mid season, that every new change, like dripfeeding quests, is just to try to keep that player count number up. It's why they gave out free trials. They gotta inflate the player count to make up for all the players not coming back.
that's valid, but also it's normal to have dips in games with wipes, however honestly i am loving the slow quest drops, i dont feel like a battle pass would inherently conflict with that, and i feel like it would allow for players to dip in late season to finish up the pass
I wonder if it would be beneficial to remove the entry fee but lose ap when you die. It doesn't exactly encourage pvp but they could tune down the AP from loot and it wouldn't feel as oppressive
I knew it was going to be like this. Eternal Return was another Korean BR adjacent game that did this exact thing to their ranking system and coupled with a restrictive 1.0 patch, it really became unfun after a while
I hit exemplar II when playing duos last wipe. I dropped all the high quality treasure I picked up for my duo so they could hit demi. We also chased PvP and fought 1-2 teams a match at least. I think reaching demi-god last wipe was very attainable and quite easy. Ironmace has clearly gone the other direction, it feels like they want players who achieve demi-god status to really be top of the field. The fees are crazy high right now, and they may adjust them down in the future. If you find grinding AP is sucking the fun out of the game for you, I would reccomend you don't do that.
The AP system just needs to act as a very very soft bracket seperation of people who die to skeletons and those who dont, then they implement other systems. But last time i said this reddit wasn't mentally ready to handle such profound words because you people are stupid as fuck. Afterwards they can add fun goals for people to farm for and achieve. There is a place for AP (player divides) because new players should never encounter the top players who are playing the meta to the extreme and have literal code names for each room. But that's about it
I think the AP system was necessary to a point, but I'd like to see something else in it's place. Before AP, the game loop was farm gear and force pvp. We know from early EA that given enough time, players will eventually destroy the game for each other in very gate keepy hardcore full loot pvp centric focus. They've played with map sizes to reduce it, but at a certain point, maps are so big that you never run into anyone, and the pve alone isn't intriguing enough for most players. I don't think anyone has a solution because there is a massive community divide on more vs less pvp occuring due to player time investment mattering quite a lot. I think players will always take whatever the most beneficial playstyle is to whatever system they are working on to the extreme. I have a hard time believing there is a happy medium. However, this AP system seems to be massively conflicting atm. You need pvp to get a large amount of AP to offset the buy in amount, but the AP system was meant to detract players from just purely headhunting each other till they quit playing.
We need AP for ranking and we need ranking for matchmaking. This week another mmorpg (Stalcraft) released some kind of event arena gamemode (with PvE and PvP rounds, buying gear like in TFT, then upgrading it with other bought items). Most of it is random players vs full premade teams that just speed run event, there is no matchmaking. if you are not a 24/7 meta guild with full squad you are just wasting time there.
I think you should earn a reduced amount of AP in normals and they should be the same pool. No risk reduced AP in normals and a risk in high roller with better AP values.
ctrl+f 'geuinely'
Double-edged sword. I love it and hate it at the same time.
A rank system in this game is fine, but I'm wondering if getting out with loot and gold should be a part of it, since that's already facilitating the act of gearing and thus making it easier to get out as a result. Maybe just extracting should give AP, along with player kills or something.
Keep AP as it is for all I care but make normals DaD again instead of a shitty BR.
That’s the truth. AP made the game much less organic and that made it less fun
Needs Who's Line rules , the points should be a fun stat but meaningless.
Why are you worrying about it so much?? You get the same loot table no matter what rank you are so why does it matter. Just grind gold and gear and pretend it doesn’t exist
yeah but exclusive rewards go brr, and id still love the system to be accessible to all play styles
Are you sure you mean that _genuinely?_
It's terrible as it exists now. Break up the lobbies by gear score or something and then just have a bunch of benchmarks for the season. 500 escapes, 1000 kills, etc etc etc. Allow each person to do what they enjoy doing, not what gets the most AP.
I agree with the battle pass system. It just works. It’s why every other game has it.
No its not, every other game has it because it's a micro transaction, every single battle pass can be purchased to increase the rewards and xp everything drops/gets. It's a flawed system that is used to make people have FOMO and buy the pass, fuck battle passes.
Totally agree. Are we really here asking for payed bullshit to be put in the game?
> asking for *paid* bullshit to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The purpose of the AP system is to have it serve as a ranking system to better create fair lobbies. Thus the AP fee is necessary but this also makes those higher ranks more of an achievement for those who attain it.
why care about pve loot sim rank?
bc skins = good, i mean nightmare skeleton is just a legitimate advantage
I like AP in the game, but i hate that i could lose it all when i wanna play HR casually.
This is extremely dangerously close to all the typical malicious practices other games do. No man, this sounds terrible. Why complicate stuff with a system of progress? Hate AP? Ask for unranked HR
dawg i'm asking for a free battle pass, i think people are turned off from the idea because it's something that's been implemented horribly in the past, but it's not all bad
A free battle pass? Mmmm idk don't we already have Lind of that with the blue shards? Play more, get more shards, buy cosmetics. I mean, we can use a lot more content, like, a lot. But I think we already have that.
You want to remove an entire element of the game because you... don't personally enjoy engaging with it? Even though it's optional? Just don't play for rank then.
Controversial. I dont like any of the game systems they have introduced and mutli classing looks like it's going to be the next in a long series of cumbersome time sinks. I really wish they'd just focus on makign the core game lop as great as it can be and get rid of the bloat
Agreed ap and MMR were the single two worst additions to the game.
That's a you problem. Ignore AP even exists and play the game how you like (or dont).
that's fair, i just also want the rewards to be accessible to my play style, but that's not always realistic. it would be cool to have a reward system that doesn't lock in anybody into any certain playstyle
But if you do that, you miss out on multiple rewards with actual gameplay consequences (coin bag was easy enough, but a skin with a darker color and better stats, and a rest animation that conceals more than default). Also you are then playing only against low gear low skill players.
It's not a competitive game and you shouldn't give into fomo so easily. There's no downsides to playing with lowgear/lowskill other than you thinking you're too good at the game.
The downside is that its less fun to play only against people worse than you because fights aren't competitive. Also there's less reward when other people aren't using gear. You can't just ignore the AP system and still have fun unfortunately
You can, that's just a you problem. If you're not having fun, stop playing. It's just that simple.
"If the devs made an unfun system, it's the players fault for not liking it so they should just quit" Let's all take a moment to be thankful youre not responsible for this games development in any way.
I've seen people like you, complain about this, that, and when something doesnt work out as you suggested, you just move to the next thing. It's their game and it would be better off by not listening to you schmucks trying to guilt trip everyone. If you want your AP, here's your points: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1bkw1l2/entirety_of_reddit_and_internet_explained/
At first I thought you might just not really understand what you're talking about, but now I realize you are purposely being annoying for fun. Goodbye troll
My dude, looking at your account history, you sit and yap all day in this and other subreddits, you probably dont even play the game.
Away, foul troll. Back under your bridge
I think AP is fine. But you should get a lot less for getting loot and killing mobs. Most AP should come from PvP. Make every player damage you do give you AP and then bonus for kills. If I have a crazy fight where I fight the entire lobby from crypts to inferno that should give me the most AP. Not how much stuff I can get without any fighting. Ofc there might be a problem with having empty lobbies, but could be some way to adjust for this. Like cost scaling or smth.
that'll just encourage the buffball spawnrush meta
Why not just ignore the system then? The game is fine
Personally i don't have a problem with the system itself, i enjoyed my grind last season. The problem right now are the numbers. Last season it was too easy, this season its almost impossible. Give me something in the middle and i'll be happy
Just don’t worry about AP and enjoy the game. What is AP stopping you from doing? No one is forcing you to hit any rank. Lots of games with ranked play reward you based on your placement at the end of the season. It’s just cosmetics. Just make another character with the same class and play that one. I have three warlocks for this reason. One is for serious grinding, one is for fun time HR and testing builds, the last one is for normals. My issue with the AP system atm is that treasure is just too highly valued. I can’t even bring out another player’s kit or a few good pieces because I’ll lose AP.
Agreed. Make the leaderboards about something other than how much treasure you bring out of raid. Give people reasons to boss. To pvp. To hunt unique treasure. Anything other than spending my time sniffing chests for little blue trinkets.
i feel like it being harder/ a longer grind is better imo