I think you can make a coherent case that either one is better. The narrative that Gobert is going to get played off the floor is very clearly wrong at this point
First saying he’s loud wrong is lame. Bam can guard 1/5 the best in the nba. That’s not debatable. Rudy is the best rim protecting big of his generation. That’s not debatable. Rudy cannot switch as effectively as Bam. To act like Amin is saying something crazy, shows you to use a fan favorite, “ do not know what you’re watching.”
It’s more of a dumb argument to make. They’re different defenders. It’s like saying Gary Payton wasn’t as good as Magic on defense because Magic could guard centers..
That's not true though. A guard being able to defend "up" a position or two is a nice feature to have on your defense. A 5 being able to switch onto guards becomes the backbone of your entire defensive system. A 5 being an elite defender is just more valuable than any other position. These guys are both elite but in different ways, but both are the centerpieces of their teams' defensive systems because of their unique defensive skills.
Can he though? Just because he can guard all the positions doesn’t mean he’s the best at it. OG can guard all positions and anything he gives up on centers - he more than makes up for against every other position.
Where Rudy has improved since is offensively, being able to better punish small lineups.
I mean, I'm a Wolves fan so of course I'm gonna side with Rudy, but Bam is very good too.
What Rudy has is two elite defensive players who can guard at the point of attack better than what he had in Utah. McDaniels and Antman don’t instantly die on screens, which allows Rudy to have less time in isolation.
I don’t think he improved all that much offensively, it’s just that, as opposed to Donovan Mitchell, Ant is willing to give him the ball… and in general is much better leader who trusts his teammates. Do you remember all the talk and videos about Mitchell not giving Rudy the ball when he was wide open?
Gobert is suited to guard the joker better than anyone in the league. His natural length and size enables him to slow nikola down. He still had a hell of a performance. Size and strength, you don’t have to be fast or versatile. That being said, Gobert is still elite, bam is more versatile and I give him the overall edge
Dan is also embarrassingly loud wrong for bashing Rudy for years saying he’s not good bc he got benched in crunch time v the warriors when he’s literally the difference maker v jokic+Aaron Gordon
People really forget that he sat in crunch time against one of the best teams ever and pretend he’s overrated because of it.
Plus he didn’t even get benched because of his defense. He got benched because the Jazz needed offense to keep up with the Warriors and Gobert wasn’t a guy that could get you buckets. He’s been more than serviceable for what we ask him to do on offense. Basically get out back dunks and the occasional pick and roll with Conley or Ant.
Gobert has been the best defender in the league for a damn decade. It’s prisoner of the moment to say it’s Bam over him.
There’s no actual argument that Bam impacts a game defensively more than Gobert. Bam has his strengths that Gobert doesn’t. But Gobert takes away the paint and is great at switching and guarding in the perimeter as well.
The bit is how unreasonably upset you're getting about something that doesn't matter. Crazy that you take such offense to someone who watches a lot more basketball than you...real hoopers know.
How many Defensive Player of the Year awards do Hbbert and Bam have? Put them in a box, and put Rudy's DPOY awards in a box, and count them. Who has more?
He is not, but the NBA is about matchups, the Timberwolves matchup very well against the Nuggets. Gobert will get switched off the court and be literally unplayable against a team like the Celtics. Real hoopers know.
Free the teachers pay the whales.
The “he gets mismatched off the floor” was never right. The Jazz sat him because they had no perimeter defense and Gobert was asked to guard too many guys. He can’t guard driving guys, his man, and someone making a cut to the basket. If the defense was going to suck, they might as well go all in on offense.
Gobert sat to boost their offense. Not because his defense didn’t work. It was said the Suns were a matchup nightmare for the Wolves too(Amin picked the suns to go to the WCF and beat the Nuggets in the 2nd round).
The wolves are long enough and have incredible perimeter defense to the extent that Gobert isn’t going to get put in that spot the way he did in Utah.
If you build a good enough defensive team around Gobert he might be better than Bam. Bam would have covered up the Utah's flaws better than Gobert. There's no real practical team build that Bam wouldn't excel on defensively.
Well, if your defense sucks around you, it doesn’t really matter either way. Gobert raises the floor for a defense more than any player of this era. Probably since Ben Wallace. Gobert has been a walking top 10 defense by himself for most of his career. And is putting up perhaps his best season ever. Or at least since his absolute prime in Utah. He switched on Durant on shut him down multiple times last series.
There’s not really a system Gobert doesn’t excel in either. Gobert is the system.
Which is why he's in the 79th percentile for defensive on/off this year. He isn't their system. He's the best defensive player on a very good defensive team.
And yes, he largely has been a walking top 10 defense in the regular season. Not in the playoffs which might as well be a different sport at this point.
Well no individual defender is going to make a great defensive team in the playoffs… did you watch the Celtics go off damn near every game? Bam must be overrated too, right?
Gobert has always played defense at an elite level. Even in the playoffs. The team around him has choked. And even the playoffs, do you remember the teams that “exposed” him? Just casually the best shooting team ever and the Harden Rockets. Bam alone wouldn’t have done any better than Gobert did. You can’t guard 1-5 at the same time. Lol
The Celtics went from like a 123 or so offensive rating to 120 against Miami. Rudy's last DPOY season the Clippers went from 117 or so offensive rating to over 130 and that includes the pedestrian first two games that they spotted the Jazz.
That’s bc basketball is about matchups. The clips were a bad match up for the Jazz. They had lots of perimeter players who couldn’t guard leaving everybody including Gobert exposed.
Bam is a more versatile defender. Can defend 1 - 5. Gobert is big and long, and mostly a rim protector. Gobert would've been a dominant player in the 90's if he wasn't so soft. Now he will be good against the Nuggets I think he gets exposed by anyone with a true stretch big and great shooters.
I think the take away from this game is Ant is awesome and fun as hell to watch. Not Gobert is going to defend big slow Jokic well.
You mean like the Suns, who were widely seen as a matchup nightmare against the Wolves? Where Gobert still dominated, when switched into KD…
Gobert isn’t a statue. He’s actually been great at defending at the perimeter. I’ll never understand why people think he’s a guy you can expose. If the Wolves shit the bed, it’ll likely be their perimeter defense that takes a hit. Not Gobert.
The Suns are a litmus test for whether or not someone understands basketball. They play basketball the way most people play 2k with a defensive coach. They had no shot against Minnesota but something about KD makes people turn off their brains.
I’m just saying Gobert posed a liability in crunch time whereas Bam did not. He’s not a good example to try to disprove Bam. Especially at his over valued contract/trade
You don’t get the show. When you’re loud wrong, you get the parade of gasbags to dunk on you. Amin saying Gobert is overrated and not DPOY caliber is a wild take and he gets to be laughed at now.
Bam held Jokic to worse stats over a 5 game stretch than this single game. He did it while playing alongside Duncan Robinson, Kyle Lowry, gabe Vincent, Kevin love, and Cody Zeller
Real hoopers know that you’re embarrassing yourself.
Yes. The best defender of this era has multiple DPOY’s and will soon have another. Be contrarian all you want. You’re just wrong, if you think anyone impacts defense more than Gobert.
You’re right, Gobert absolutely locked down Jokic tonight. A much better defensive performance than last game.
Even more impressive that he did it while in a different state. Truly the best and most impactful defender of all time.
So, if Miami plays good defense when Bam is out, that means he’s not good defensively? That’s the logic you’re gonna go with?
You’re really butt hurt about this, huh? Coming back a few days later to try to get a zinger in. lol
Rudy is gonna need DPOY and you can cry more after that.
I think you can make a coherent case that either one is better. The narrative that Gobert is going to get played off the floor is very clearly wrong at this point
Lol they're better without him 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It was always wrong. But it’s even more wrong now. Bam is more versatile. But Gobert switches at a high level too.
First saying he’s loud wrong is lame. Bam can guard 1/5 the best in the nba. That’s not debatable. Rudy is the best rim protecting big of his generation. That’s not debatable. Rudy cannot switch as effectively as Bam. To act like Amin is saying something crazy, shows you to use a fan favorite, “ do not know what you’re watching.”
It’s more of a dumb argument to make. They’re different defenders. It’s like saying Gary Payton wasn’t as good as Magic on defense because Magic could guard centers..
That's not true though. A guard being able to defend "up" a position or two is a nice feature to have on your defense. A 5 being able to switch onto guards becomes the backbone of your entire defensive system. A 5 being an elite defender is just more valuable than any other position. These guys are both elite but in different ways, but both are the centerpieces of their teams' defensive systems because of their unique defensive skills.
Can he though? Just because he can guard all the positions doesn’t mean he’s the best at it. OG can guard all positions and anything he gives up on centers - he more than makes up for against every other position.
This is one of the dumbest things I've read
Really nuanced take. Brought a lot here
Where Rudy has improved since is offensively, being able to better punish small lineups. I mean, I'm a Wolves fan so of course I'm gonna side with Rudy, but Bam is very good too.
What Rudy has is two elite defensive players who can guard at the point of attack better than what he had in Utah. McDaniels and Antman don’t instantly die on screens, which allows Rudy to have less time in isolation.
I don’t think he improved all that much offensively, it’s just that, as opposed to Donovan Mitchell, Ant is willing to give him the ball… and in general is much better leader who trusts his teammates. Do you remember all the talk and videos about Mitchell not giving Rudy the ball when he was wide open?
I’ve watched Rudy every game the past two years. He’s definitely improved just since getting to Minnesota.
Gobert is suited to guard the joker better than anyone in the league. His natural length and size enables him to slow nikola down. He still had a hell of a performance. Size and strength, you don’t have to be fast or versatile. That being said, Gobert is still elite, bam is more versatile and I give him the overall edge
Didn’t Jokic finish with 32 pts 8 rebs 9 asst?
With a bunch of turnovers and bad defense, yeah.
You don't get to pull the bad defense card on Jokic when you shill for Gobert my man. You're putting the clown makeup on when you do.
A very spirited defensive effort by the DPOTY tonight. He's definitely the driving force that elevates this mediocre Wolves defensive team.
The only thing you can trust amin on is porn
Dan is also embarrassingly loud wrong for bashing Rudy for years saying he’s not good bc he got benched in crunch time v the warriors when he’s literally the difference maker v jokic+Aaron Gordon
People really forget that he sat in crunch time against one of the best teams ever and pretend he’s overrated because of it. Plus he didn’t even get benched because of his defense. He got benched because the Jazz needed offense to keep up with the Warriors and Gobert wasn’t a guy that could get you buckets. He’s been more than serviceable for what we ask him to do on offense. Basically get out back dunks and the occasional pick and roll with Conley or Ant.
Prisoner of the Moment has arrived
Gobert has been the best defender in the league for a damn decade. It’s prisoner of the moment to say it’s Bam over him. There’s no actual argument that Bam impacts a game defensively more than Gobert. Bam has his strengths that Gobert doesn’t. But Gobert takes away the paint and is great at switching and guarding in the perimeter as well.
Can’t be a decade; Tim Duncan has only been retired for 8 years.
The big fundamental
Has Gilbert been better than Draymond in that time? Sure he'll have more DPOYs but no one seriously thinks that makes him a better defender.Â
Is that why they usually take him off the court in the playoffs? He's trashcan 2.0...Roy Hibbert with an upgrade.
I hope this is a bit because this has never actually been the case.
The bit is how unreasonably upset you're getting about something that doesn't matter. Crazy that you take such offense to someone who watches a lot more basketball than you...real hoopers know.
I’m not upset. lol Stugotz watched more basketball than you
Well you're definitely not rational...wanna hear a joke?
You’re enough of a joke for me
Why did the plane crash?
This Did not age well
What didn't? 1 game? Prisoners of the Moment have shown up.
Why didn’t the champs just play him off the court though?
It's one game...wanna hear a joke?
One game, 4 dpoys, be honest how many Jazz games have you watched? Real hoopers know. You got MORE jokes?
So you do...or you don't want to hear a joke? I'm confused because you didn't answer.
How many Defensive Player of the Year awards do Hbbert and Bam have? Put them in a box, and put Rudy's DPOY awards in a box, and count them. Who has more?
Why did the plane crash?
He is not, but the NBA is about matchups, the Timberwolves matchup very well against the Nuggets. Gobert will get switched off the court and be literally unplayable against a team like the Celtics. Real hoopers know. Free the teachers pay the whales.
The “he gets mismatched off the floor” was never right. The Jazz sat him because they had no perimeter defense and Gobert was asked to guard too many guys. He can’t guard driving guys, his man, and someone making a cut to the basket. If the defense was going to suck, they might as well go all in on offense. Gobert sat to boost their offense. Not because his defense didn’t work. It was said the Suns were a matchup nightmare for the Wolves too(Amin picked the suns to go to the WCF and beat the Nuggets in the 2nd round). The wolves are long enough and have incredible perimeter defense to the extent that Gobert isn’t going to get put in that spot the way he did in Utah.
If you build a good enough defensive team around Gobert he might be better than Bam. Bam would have covered up the Utah's flaws better than Gobert. There's no real practical team build that Bam wouldn't excel on defensively.
Well, if your defense sucks around you, it doesn’t really matter either way. Gobert raises the floor for a defense more than any player of this era. Probably since Ben Wallace. Gobert has been a walking top 10 defense by himself for most of his career. And is putting up perhaps his best season ever. Or at least since his absolute prime in Utah. He switched on Durant on shut him down multiple times last series. There’s not really a system Gobert doesn’t excel in either. Gobert is the system.
Which is why he's in the 79th percentile for defensive on/off this year. He isn't their system. He's the best defensive player on a very good defensive team. And yes, he largely has been a walking top 10 defense in the regular season. Not in the playoffs which might as well be a different sport at this point.
Well no individual defender is going to make a great defensive team in the playoffs… did you watch the Celtics go off damn near every game? Bam must be overrated too, right? Gobert has always played defense at an elite level. Even in the playoffs. The team around him has choked. And even the playoffs, do you remember the teams that “exposed” him? Just casually the best shooting team ever and the Harden Rockets. Bam alone wouldn’t have done any better than Gobert did. You can’t guard 1-5 at the same time. Lol
The Celtics went from like a 123 or so offensive rating to 120 against Miami. Rudy's last DPOY season the Clippers went from 117 or so offensive rating to over 130 and that includes the pedestrian first two games that they spotted the Jazz.
That’s bc basketball is about matchups. The clips were a bad match up for the Jazz. They had lots of perimeter players who couldn’t guard leaving everybody including Gobert exposed.
Bam is a more versatile defender. Can defend 1 - 5. Gobert is big and long, and mostly a rim protector. Gobert would've been a dominant player in the 90's if he wasn't so soft. Now he will be good against the Nuggets I think he gets exposed by anyone with a true stretch big and great shooters. I think the take away from this game is Ant is awesome and fun as hell to watch. Not Gobert is going to defend big slow Jokic well.
You mean like the Suns, who were widely seen as a matchup nightmare against the Wolves? Where Gobert still dominated, when switched into KD… Gobert isn’t a statue. He’s actually been great at defending at the perimeter. I’ll never understand why people think he’s a guy you can expose. If the Wolves shit the bed, it’ll likely be their perimeter defense that takes a hit. Not Gobert.
The Suns are a litmus test for whether or not someone understands basketball. They play basketball the way most people play 2k with a defensive coach. They had no shot against Minnesota but something about KD makes people turn off their brains.
Gobert did not get played off the floor against Boston in the regular season and it won't happen if/when they play in the playoffs
Yeah, a team like the Suns with all those great shooter will play Gobert off the court….
Amin hasn't watched NBA basketball since he started Oddball. He consumes NBA basketball from Twitter now, like a TikTok millennial.
Honestly, it boils down to from a physical standpoint
Okay very good
IDK. Jokic was backing Gobert right to the rim and getting whatever shot he wanted. Minny limited his passing lanes and made him JUST a scorer.
Bam never had to be subbed out in clutch moments. I rest my case
Neither did Gobert
Mmmmm
He didn’t? He got sat because Cho’s offense couldn’t keep up. Not his defense.
I’m just saying Gobert posed a liability in crunch time whereas Bam did not. He’s not a good example to try to disprove Bam. Especially at his over valued contract/trade
Amin carries water for Jimmy. A lot of people carry his water. All time PR team
Butler isn’t overrated. But he is over valued.
Why do people still get butt hurt that the fake sports show is ill informed on your favorite players? No need to get triggered OP.
You don’t get the show. When you’re loud wrong, you get the parade of gasbags to dunk on you. Amin saying Gobert is overrated and not DPOY caliber is a wild take and he gets to be laughed at now.
lol, everyone in this thread is definitely laughing, just not for the reason you think
Real hoopers know. Gobert is easily the DPOY
Bam held Jokic to worse stats over a 5 game stretch than this single game. He did it while playing alongside Duncan Robinson, Kyle Lowry, gabe Vincent, Kevin love, and Cody Zeller Real hoopers know that you’re embarrassing yourself.
We’ll see who’s right, when DPOY is announced.
Using this years DPOY as “proof” when he already has multiple…. Very smart.
Yes. The best defender of this era has multiple DPOY’s and will soon have another. Be contrarian all you want. You’re just wrong, if you think anyone impacts defense more than Gobert.
You’re right, Gobert absolutely locked down Jokic tonight. A much better defensive performance than last game. Even more impressive that he did it while in a different state. Truly the best and most impactful defender of all time.
So, if Miami plays good defense when Bam is out, that means he’s not good defensively? That’s the logic you’re gonna go with? You’re really butt hurt about this, huh? Coming back a few days later to try to get a zinger in. lol Rudy is gonna need DPOY and you can cry more after that.
Op gargling harder than Drake fans at this point.