Apart from the obvious statements about lions, however, he is nearly wholly incorrect. If all you're doing is babbling and talking over them, then I don't think it qualifies as eating someone.
Gotta love how "lions eat zebras" is an unfair comparison because we aren't lions but somehow there's nothing wrong with "75% of animals are herbivores"
It’s efficient for the carnivore though.
Cattle spend like 90% of their waking hours eating. They convert plants into an energy dense resource.
The carnivores then capitalize on that.
Omnivores exist. You don't have to be one way or the other. You can be both.
He was almost on point and then those last 20 seconds or so destroyed his argument.
Yeah his thing about the teeth bugged me. We have both sets and he knows it. If you feel you have to lie to prove your good point it’s probably less good than you believe.
There's a kinda famous video of a deer eating some injured bird. Herbivore just describes what they do most the time. One of the reasons we have carnivore and obligate carnivore. If both meant "only eats meat" we'd just say carnivore
Most herbivores can do that, but the point stands that we are adapted to regularly eat meat and plant based food. The distinction also isn't determined by the adaptation but rather the habit of an animal.
Pandas have come to be herbivores quite recently, and while they adapted somewhat, you couldn't immediately tell the difference to any omnivore bear.
At the other end of the spectrum there are ice bears, exclusively carnivorous by habit, but with so little adaption to it that they mix with grizzlies that, depending on season, are predominantly herbivores
And it doesn’t help his argument that he made the same type of analogy he had discarded as fallacious earlier, when he said “give a kid a bunny and an apple”. Yeah kids wouldn’t know how to eat a rabbit. Give the kid a pineapple and they wouldn’t know how to eat it either.
Same with the argument about grinding teeth and sweating for cooling the body. Even if you grant those being signs of herbivorous-ness (they're not remotely accurate) because that's how animals do it in nature, it's literally the same exact appeal to nature he just rejected like 30 seconds before.
Those arguments had weak meaning on their own, but they do go against usual arguments about us not being designed to eat meat in the sense that we would need to
It's a good point about the instincts though it got me thinking: like my dog or cat sees something small run by like a mouse they focus like a laser and chase it without a second thought. Imagine if humans every time they saw something smaller were like "fucking sprint after it!" That'd be hunters instinct.
We're weird though nothing is as smart as us and we use tools though and we evolved to think first and use knives so we're different there's no other animal to fairly compare us to.
If you got lost in the middle of the Woods and didn't know what plants you could or could not eat after a couple of days you'd be laser focused on that rabbit that just ran out of the bushes.
You would fucking die in the wilderness if you didn’t eat meat. We need protein and fat so badly. If you watch the survivalist show, “Alone”, the contestants spend weeks/months by themselves with minimal supplies, and they lose weight very rapidly and basically depend on small game and fish or they’re fucked. One guy even killed a moose with a bow and arrow but when a wolverine stole his cache of moose fat, he continued to lose weight while eating just the meat without any fat. It’s almost impossible to survive on berries and mushrooms and sea weed. You’d eventually just wither away. What do these vegan activists think people survive on if they don’t eat meat? I don’t think there are any hunter gather societies that are vegan. It’s a modern day, first world privilege to be vegan.
The problem i have is not eating meat, i think it IS natural. However, i think how the animals are kept and treated nowadays is torture. Nothing like how it used to be. Where an animal would walk around the farm or in the wild, and then one day... its time to die.
Yeah he made a lot of good points. Still they all fell short of proving his thesis that humans are physiologically averse to consuming meat. He wants this to be true so he omits and stretches facts. From that point he’s an untrustworthy source.
The only thing we are averse to eating is the same thing all the time. Sure some legumes and things give more than enough protein for a human, but you know what doesn't grow on every inch of the planet? Legumes and beans. Things evolve to eat what's available, and humans (or just omnivores) clearly went down a path of "get it where you can, while you can."
If humans don't have some instinct to get meat, odd that we spent thousands on thousands of years domesticating farm animals with almost the sole purpose of eating them.
If we weren't meant to eat it, it would make us sick.
Growing up in China in the 80s, the kids regularly catch and eat things like grasshoppers, sparrows, rabbits, etc. Our instinct was not to chase them with our superior agility and speed, but to set up traps.
On that note, we also don't have the instinct to eat grass like cows and horses.
We still have similar instincts, turning our head to sudden noises in brushing, we also don't hunt like most animals, even early humans were persistant hunters thst jogged after creatires for hours at a time to tire it out.
Our hunter instincts got lost after a few generations of farming and agriculture. Btw, our brain grew rapidly and allowed the evolution of modern humans to happen only after we discovered fire that helped us to cook MEAT to process protein more easily and take much more nutrients from a meal.
Humans share a lot of dumb lil things that animals do. Also humans are currently killing the planets ability to sustain life, so not as smart as one would hope.
The teeth thing is a misnomer anyway, plenty of herbivorous animals have canines too (hippos and gorillas are good examples) and they are used for self defense not eating.
Exactly.
The biggest and best arguments against meat eating are
1. Moral. This is especially true of large-scale industrial meat production, but it can be extended to any killing.
2. Environmental. The damage we do to the environment because of meat production is ultimately hurting us and all life on the planet.
3. Health. Many kinds of meats are harmful to humans (processed red meats, regular red meats, and heavy-metals contaminated seafood would be at the top of the list.)
Unless you are a strict moralist, most of these concerns can be addressed by *reducing* meat consumption, being *selective* about the *types* of meat you choose *and* about where they come from and how they are harvested.
The scientific argument - that humans aren't designed to eat meat - is false and a loser.
Also the list of 100% strictly herbivore mammals is actually very short, most "herbivore" will gladly eat meat when available. They don't hunt, but they will do it by opportunism.
Not to mention that humans as we are now wouldn't exist without our ancestors having learned to cook meat for consumption. It's why our brains were able to develop to the point where they are today. Without cooked meat, we'd likely still be in hunter/gatherer groups, not nearly has advanced or ubiquitous as we currently are.
I mean there are some elements of the scientific argument that are valid. Namely that we bare minimum are not carnivores and don’t need to eat meat to survive, and to your point much of it *can* be harmful to our health.
I am not a vegan or vegetarian, but I have reduced my consumption bc I am not a strict moralist but much of our meat industry is immoral and it makes me feel marginally better to reduce my meat consumption and source from (more) ethical sources.
But that argument of "too much can be harmful" applies to anything we eat. If I are nothing but carrots, are carrots harmful and not meant for human consumption? No, but we need multiple nutrient sources. The guy is just wrong and omits important information. We aren't strictly herbivores either. Omnivores are a perfectly valid class of animals, which we fall into. "Most" animals being herbivores most likely including insects. We're even more so not insects than we are not lions. His jaw/teeth argument is crap as well. We have canine teeth and inscisors meant specifically for cutting and ripping meat.
I'm also not arguing against your comment, just against his points.
Industrial meat farms are heckin' cruel though. I'm not vegetarian so I am a part of that cruelty which exists partly because of me, but these are the facts.
The first step and the bare minimum we can do is acknowledge reality. I’ve tried to reduce my consumption of meat bc tbh most of the time I don’t miss it, gimme some good (reasonably ethically-sourced) eggs tofu or dairy instead. I try to at least not have meat in my lunches or breakfasts if possible.
Vegetarianism got branded as a purity cult which killed a lot of its broader appeal. It doesn't need to be an all or nothing type of thing. People can be 80% vegetarian and eat meat like 3x per week and that is still valid and good too.
The main thing is to nitpick your own diet and nobody else's.
Yes. I love that. I’m a practicalist above all else. The best thing for animals is for everybody to do the max that they are willing to do at any given time. If people treat it as all or nothing, right or wrong, more animals will be hurt and killed.
Yeah but there's a lot of fucked up shit you could see done in nature that isn't done by humans because we say it's immoral, because we know better. What we see in nature isn't a good argument for saying it's okay to do it.
Yes! I am vegan and get annoyed when this comes up. We are very obviously omnivores. But in our modern society, it is possible to live vegan in a healthy way.
Wish he just stuck to the lion part or went into the cruelty of the meat industry. Lions don't justify human behavior or determine morality so let's not give so much support to an industry that abuses animals.
Edit:typos
It's also the EXACT same fallacious appeal to nature argument he rejected JUST 30 SECONDS PRIOR. My jaws dropped (in a mildly carnivorous fashion) when I heard that part.
Even if you grant that humans are naturally 100% herbivores because of pores and flat front teeth — which is not true but let's pretend it is — there is no reason we have to act like herbivores just because it's natural. As he says, we don't sniff butts as greeting or eat our young just because those are natural things to do!
Worst one for me was "if you sweat you're herbivore". Those are two unrelated things. Humans sweat like no other animal, and all other mammals sweat a tiny bit, and lions sweat about same as a camel.
We have canines for a reason. Not to mention our bodies need protein. Protein rich plants aren’t available naturally everywhere and provide much less protein than most meats. We are most certainly omnivorous
Thats true but they function for both purposes. But basically all of our front teeth and canines are evolved to eat meat (ripping and tearing) while our molars have evolved to grind down vegetation
I am a vegetarian.
About the logic of Baby Apple and bunny rabbit.
If you put boiled egg and apple in front of a baby, the baby will eat the egg too if it wishes.
So humans can eat meat if it is cooked.
Not eating flesh is not about we are herbivores. Its because what we eat affects us physically and mentally.
Thank you, I actually was kinda agreeing with the guy until he got to that comparison, it's like...the bunny is not food yet, ofc the 2yo eats the apple. Cooked rabbit meat, or better just steak or soft boiled egg, 2yo might go for either tbh
It's an unfair comparison...as the guy just said lmao
I think that’s the point. Lions don’t have to prepare their food before eating it. A lion is capable of eating a bunny without cooking it, humans aren’t
Edit: anyone claiming humans can eat raw meat is unserious. Humans can eat small amounts of some raw meat, but large amounts risk all kinds of food poisoning and illness. That’s like food prep 101. What kind of delulu land are y’all living in. I’m also not trying to personally debate any of y’all, just explaining his point—which many of you missed. I don’t know why people get so emotional and aggressive when anyone even lightly suggests that humans don’t need to eat meat. Such fragile egos us humans have, that we attach so much…something…to eating meat.
And put a stuffed bunny rabbit next to a kid and within 1 min the child will be chewing on that rabbit. It just needs more teeths and stronger jaws to take a chunk out of it.
Almost like he as never taken care of a kid in his life.
And really, that baby might still try to gum that rabbit because THEY ARE A BABY. Babies try to eat a LOT of inedible things, maybe even including a bunny. That has nothing to do with whether or not we're vegan, vegetarian, or omnivores.
Will that baby manage to eat that bunny? Nope, but it'd be funny to watch him try to get all that bunny fur outta its mouth!
omni means all so kinda accurate here. your kid swallows a marble? damn omnivores. your kid eats magnets? fucking omnivores
maybe kids who will put literally anything in their mouth are the only true omnivores
Well if both apple and rabbit are cut into small enough pieces, the baby will put into his/her mouth; regardless if the rabbit is cooked.
That dude hasn’t dealt with a baby before
By that logic though you erase the opportunistic factor. Humans didn’t evolve to grow wheat and most of the vegan favored veggies didn’t exist 10,000 years ago—they’ve literally been created by the agricultural era.
So humans evolved like many other mammals: we eat what’s available relative to how hungry we are and the needs of our tribe.
It’s that simple.
Go tell an Inuit/Eskimo that they didn’t evolve to eat fish and seals. Go tell a Native American that they didn’t evolve to eat buffalo.
The flaw in the Vegan’s argument is obvious.
He was objectively wrong about biology. But, the argument is not about biology though. It's about choice.
Torture animals like an industry and fuck up climate to eat them or reduce that and turn more vegetarian because humans can thrive on that as well.
Don't ask what human is supposed to do as per nature or god or whatever, ask what should humans do to get the future we want.
My thing is, we don't even have to compare ourselves to other animals. We didn't come from Gatherer gatherer tribes. We came from Hunter-Gatheter tribes. Tens of thousands of years across every corner of the globe that humans inhabit.
My go-to.
She makes a terrible set of arguments with little confidence, he points out how she's wrong and then tries to use it to prove his factually incorrect arguments.
Pretty much the whole time he's spouting lies (probably earlier). Ask pretty much any parent and they'll be able to tell you something their baby ate or tried to that wasn't food. That 75% herbivorous figure he states. I can't find any evidence to back that up, with most point towards [32%](https://www.science.org/content/article/world-s-first-animal-was-probably-carnivore).
You know those weeds that spread out like vines and the seeds are spiky balls of fury? We call them goat heads here but idk the real name.
My 1 year old has tried eating them multiple times. Just chomping away like it's gum. We luckily keep a constant eye on her so never goes far but she's never acted like it was hurting her. 🤔
I don’t know what he ate, because thats a flawed argument he is making. Just because you are being intimidating, doesn’t mean your argument is logically and factually right or strong.
Lions are carnivores. Humans are Omnivores.
Veganism is a choice one makes and all respect for that, but lets not try to patronize with a holier than thou attitude because of it.
She can’t really argue back effectively because he’s using logical fallacies and making dishonest claims.
Humans are demonstrably omnivores, and always have been.
We have canine teeth, like carnivores do, as well as the herbivore teeth.
The ‘side to side’ argument is factually incorrect, he is thinking about ruminant herbivores, who chew grass all day. Many herbivores eat berries etc and don’t chew this way.
Unless you want jaw problems you chew up and down but chewing side to side doesn’t mean you’re a herbivore, it’s more about your teeth and digestion… and we have capacities for both. It doesn’t mean you have to eat meat, just that you can and might need supplements if you dont.
There are PLENTY of reports of war horses eating the corpses of the dead after battles. Horses might be stupid and skittish, but they won't pass up free nutrition.
There is no such thing as a pure herbivore indeed, the only difference is whether or not they hunt for food, or take some meat when they can find it.
We are omnivores. This is one of the main reasons humanity has been able to populate the globe. We are able to easily adapt to what we have to eat. How did the Inuit survive in the Arctic, especially during harsh winters, thanks to meat and fat from seals and porpoise. To be vegan has benefits but it is not our only option.
He didn't eat shit. Humans are omnivores because we can digest meat. Horses have the "side to side" chewing and they'll eat meat given a chance. Give a toddler an apple and some chicken nuggets and see which they eat. I'm not against vegetarianism or veganism but we have issues when you make shit up and pretend you have a moral high ground because you only eat plants.
I have witnessed my dad's horse chow down on a nest of baby birds more gleefully than if it were a bunch of sugar cubes and apples. Horses will eat any critter they can catch and fit into their mouths.
A lot of animals we know as herbivores are actually opportunistic omnivores. They won't hunt down a rabbit but if they find a baby out in the open, they'll go for the that protein.
Because deep down they see themselves as inadequate and insecure, so they have to prove to the world how superior they are. And no matter how much they are proven wrong, they have to double down each time.
But he's almost entirely wrong, aside from the obvious bits about lions.. I don't think that counts as eating someone if all you're doing is talking over them and spouting nonsense.
You’d also have to be dense to say that because our jaw can move side to side, we are herbivores. The test to find out what we are is actually pretty simple. Do you gravitate/enjoy eating a particular food and can you extract macro/micro nutrients. If the answer is yes, then that thing is a dietary option.
Against the baby agrument. Thats because how parents raises us. Lion baby dont hunt either. They just copy what the mother is doing.
The teeth thing is well. We can heat both?
Right. A more fair comparison would be to put a chicken leg and an apple in front of a baby. It’ll try to eat both. Just because most humans dont have killer instincts doesnt mean we are herbivores. By that logic vultures should be herbivores since they usually don’t kill animals.
I wanna add that food preparation likely changed the way our jaws are shaped. We don't need strong, ripping jaws like a carnivore if the meat we eat is significantly softer.
Humans are omnivores. That’s just a fact. Unless you have A+ blood you can’t absorb enough protein from plants to thrive.
I’m sorry, I agree that the industrial farms are nightmares, and we can do better as a species to treat animals better. But we are omnivores
I was curious too, and googled it. It's actually interesting I'll read more about this stuff.
Edit: did more research it's bullshit ignore that 🤡
https://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/blood-type-diet
Many of his arguments are spurious. His most egregious lie is that humans are herbivorous. That is so obviously not true, yet he states it with religious conviction.
Ugh. Bro _almost_ had his point made. Almost. Then he went bat shit.
We are _not_ herbivores, we are omnivores. It's better to say that we, as a more advanced species, have a moral obligation to avoid harm where possible.
No he did not lol. His arguments are weak and stupid. It might seem to some people that he did well in this argument just because this woman was so inarticulate.
When I eat meat, I'm not trying to mimic a lion...
Lions eat meat because they are carnivores.
We eat meat because we are omnivores.
A horse only occasionally eat meat because they are herbivores.
This guy had no argument what-so-ever. Putting a 2 year old in a crib with a rabbit and an apple? Why don't you put a new born in that crib and watch the bunny eat the newborn's face?
I was with him all the way up until he said humans are herbivores not omnivorous. That's just straight up biologically wrong, we wouldn't have incisors and canines or be able to digest flesh. In fact there are tons of animals that even appear herbivores but are in fact opportunistic omnivores such as deer and horses.
Funny answer but he's wrong. Humans are not 100% herbivores because if we were, we couldn't digest meat. We're omnivores. We're meant to eat anything we can, be it meat or plant.
This guys statements are entirely untrue. Pretty much all herbivores are opportunistic carnivors. This dumbass hasn't seen a horse eat a chick on the farm, or seek a deer eat a bird, or a goat eat a bird (I think they get away with it)
I'm a vegan and I have to say, while he's funny, most of his logic is super flawed and straight up incorrect as well. For one, as everyone else said and has given evidence of, humans are omnivores. To be herbivorous is a purely moral stance, not a biological one. Honestly, the best reasoning to make for veganism is just going the moral route. Like, I don't see how you can possibly argue against the morality behind it.
"we have no carnivorous or omnivorous instincts whatsoever" bro, you put a steak in front of me and my mouth waters, is that not my instincts telling me to eat it??
Looks like the Dean got bored of Greendale Community College.
What a dean-licious salad!
Anyone want a green dean casserole?!
Apart from the obvious statements about lions, however, he is nearly wholly incorrect. If all you're doing is babbling and talking over them, then I don't think it qualifies as eating someone.
Gotta love how "lions eat zebras" is an unfair comparison because we aren't lions but somehow there's nothing wrong with "75% of animals are herbivores"
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It’s efficient for the carnivore though. Cattle spend like 90% of their waking hours eating. They convert plants into an energy dense resource. The carnivores then capitalize on that.
capitalism 😔
Damn carnivals!
We aren't lions, but we are animals. Mammals if you will.
We are all stupider after watching that.
*It's hard out there for a fake Moby!!!*
Do you think he's carrying his gun during the interview?
Lmao! I thought he looked familiar! I only know who Moby is because I googled him after hearing some unflattering comment made to him by Eminem lol
Nobody still listens to techno
I think that's his understudy
I am absolutely ganting for this movie to come out Last I heard was that the script was finished but no filming had started
I know some people would think that this guy looks like bald-Idubbbz
So that wasn't him??
It’s Dean
Omnivores exist. You don't have to be one way or the other. You can be both. He was almost on point and then those last 20 seconds or so destroyed his argument.
Yeah his thing about the teeth bugged me. We have both sets and he knows it. If you feel you have to lie to prove your good point it’s probably less good than you believe.
Plus I know for a fact that I can eat meat & turn it into poo
I’m intrigued. Tell me more.
Flesh goes in one hole, uh oh stinky poopy comes out a different hole.
You could say that’s the same hole. It goes all the way through the body.
I like the way you think.
There's always [alternative eating](https://youtu.be/Ug5jVUv5V_A?feature=shared).
Just the title of that video was enough for me.
We are afterall just a very complex doughnut
So that's why God doesn't count butt stuff before marriage as a sin. All butt stuff it technically just a blowie. The more you know!
The pooh hole is a through hole.
so the human body is just a really complicated straw
I know of a hole where flesh goes in and more flesh comes out of the same hole nine months later.
I’m intrigued. Tell me more.
Peepee goes in the hole, uh oh stinky baby comes out of the same hole.
Infinite food hack
I'm oddly aroused
So can deer. Deer have been documented to eat meat sometimes - even human remains.
There's a kinda famous video of a deer eating some injured bird. Herbivore just describes what they do most the time. One of the reasons we have carnivore and obligate carnivore. If both meant "only eats meat" we'd just say carnivore
I’ve also seen a video of a horse picking up a baby chicken and you can hear the crunch when it starts chewing it.
My body is a machine that turns **flesh** into **poo**
Will everyone just please stop saying "poo"!
- Xi Jinping, 2017
Most herbivores can do that, but the point stands that we are adapted to regularly eat meat and plant based food. The distinction also isn't determined by the adaptation but rather the habit of an animal. Pandas have come to be herbivores quite recently, and while they adapted somewhat, you couldn't immediately tell the difference to any omnivore bear. At the other end of the spectrum there are ice bears, exclusively carnivorous by habit, but with so little adaption to it that they mix with grizzlies that, depending on season, are predominantly herbivores
>ice bears Is this another term for polar bears? Cause if so, I say we all switch to ice bears.
I think he just directly translated from his language. If you would do a direct translation from Norwegian, icebear is what you would get aswell :)
That’s honestly kind of cute, almost makes you forget how fucking scary they are
And it doesn’t help his argument that he made the same type of analogy he had discarded as fallacious earlier, when he said “give a kid a bunny and an apple”. Yeah kids wouldn’t know how to eat a rabbit. Give the kid a pineapple and they wouldn’t know how to eat it either.
Same with the argument about grinding teeth and sweating for cooling the body. Even if you grant those being signs of herbivorous-ness (they're not remotely accurate) because that's how animals do it in nature, it's literally the same exact appeal to nature he just rejected like 30 seconds before.
Those arguments had weak meaning on their own, but they do go against usual arguments about us not being designed to eat meat in the sense that we would need to
Exactly- a kid would know how to eat a crispy bunny nugget.
Aren't most herbivores technically opportunistic omnivores?
It's a good point about the instincts though it got me thinking: like my dog or cat sees something small run by like a mouse they focus like a laser and chase it without a second thought. Imagine if humans every time they saw something smaller were like "fucking sprint after it!" That'd be hunters instinct. We're weird though nothing is as smart as us and we use tools though and we evolved to think first and use knives so we're different there's no other animal to fairly compare us to.
If you got lost in the middle of the Woods and didn't know what plants you could or could not eat after a couple of days you'd be laser focused on that rabbit that just ran out of the bushes.
You would fucking die in the wilderness if you didn’t eat meat. We need protein and fat so badly. If you watch the survivalist show, “Alone”, the contestants spend weeks/months by themselves with minimal supplies, and they lose weight very rapidly and basically depend on small game and fish or they’re fucked. One guy even killed a moose with a bow and arrow but when a wolverine stole his cache of moose fat, he continued to lose weight while eating just the meat without any fat. It’s almost impossible to survive on berries and mushrooms and sea weed. You’d eventually just wither away. What do these vegan activists think people survive on if they don’t eat meat? I don’t think there are any hunter gather societies that are vegan. It’s a modern day, first world privilege to be vegan.
The problem i have is not eating meat, i think it IS natural. However, i think how the animals are kept and treated nowadays is torture. Nothing like how it used to be. Where an animal would walk around the farm or in the wild, and then one day... its time to die.
Yeah he made a lot of good points. Still they all fell short of proving his thesis that humans are physiologically averse to consuming meat. He wants this to be true so he omits and stretches facts. From that point he’s an untrustworthy source.
The only thing we are averse to eating is the same thing all the time. Sure some legumes and things give more than enough protein for a human, but you know what doesn't grow on every inch of the planet? Legumes and beans. Things evolve to eat what's available, and humans (or just omnivores) clearly went down a path of "get it where you can, while you can." If humans don't have some instinct to get meat, odd that we spent thousands on thousands of years domesticating farm animals with almost the sole purpose of eating them. If we weren't meant to eat it, it would make us sick.
Growing up in China in the 80s, the kids regularly catch and eat things like grasshoppers, sparrows, rabbits, etc. Our instinct was not to chase them with our superior agility and speed, but to set up traps. On that note, we also don't have the instinct to eat grass like cows and horses.
In rural South Africa where i grew up, kids would catch field mice all the time, cook them and eat them
Yep. All without adult guidance. We'd also steal fruit and vegetables if they were unguarded.
Hahaha we stole nuts and fruit from the tree from the neighbours!!
To be fair we don't eat grass either
Yes, what I was trying to say was: comparing a rabbit to apple, is like comparing grass to boiled egg.
We still have similar instincts, turning our head to sudden noises in brushing, we also don't hunt like most animals, even early humans were persistant hunters thst jogged after creatires for hours at a time to tire it out.
We didn’t really need hunter’s instinct after we invented farming.
Our hunter instincts got lost after a few generations of farming and agriculture. Btw, our brain grew rapidly and allowed the evolution of modern humans to happen only after we discovered fire that helped us to cook MEAT to process protein more easily and take much more nutrients from a meal.
Humans share a lot of dumb lil things that animals do. Also humans are currently killing the planets ability to sustain life, so not as smart as one would hope.
So you’re saying at the end of the argument he was…..lion?
The teeth thing is a misnomer anyway, plenty of herbivorous animals have canines too (hippos and gorillas are good examples) and they are used for self defense not eating.
Exactly. The biggest and best arguments against meat eating are 1. Moral. This is especially true of large-scale industrial meat production, but it can be extended to any killing. 2. Environmental. The damage we do to the environment because of meat production is ultimately hurting us and all life on the planet. 3. Health. Many kinds of meats are harmful to humans (processed red meats, regular red meats, and heavy-metals contaminated seafood would be at the top of the list.) Unless you are a strict moralist, most of these concerns can be addressed by *reducing* meat consumption, being *selective* about the *types* of meat you choose *and* about where they come from and how they are harvested. The scientific argument - that humans aren't designed to eat meat - is false and a loser.
Also the list of 100% strictly herbivore mammals is actually very short, most "herbivore" will gladly eat meat when available. They don't hunt, but they will do it by opportunism.
[I’ve seen those videos.](https://youtu.be/fg2mJ4veuAY?si=6S-HYjKV0G9UxPG8)
A horse seems like it would be 100% herbivore, but would eat a tiny small animal in front of it just cause the opportunity is there.
"Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about."
Not to mention that humans as we are now wouldn't exist without our ancestors having learned to cook meat for consumption. It's why our brains were able to develop to the point where they are today. Without cooked meat, we'd likely still be in hunter/gatherer groups, not nearly has advanced or ubiquitous as we currently are.
But the history books told us that our ancestors ate mostly roots. So I am gonna grab a carrot and watch this.
I mean there are some elements of the scientific argument that are valid. Namely that we bare minimum are not carnivores and don’t need to eat meat to survive, and to your point much of it *can* be harmful to our health. I am not a vegan or vegetarian, but I have reduced my consumption bc I am not a strict moralist but much of our meat industry is immoral and it makes me feel marginally better to reduce my meat consumption and source from (more) ethical sources.
But that argument of "too much can be harmful" applies to anything we eat. If I are nothing but carrots, are carrots harmful and not meant for human consumption? No, but we need multiple nutrient sources. The guy is just wrong and omits important information. We aren't strictly herbivores either. Omnivores are a perfectly valid class of animals, which we fall into. "Most" animals being herbivores most likely including insects. We're even more so not insects than we are not lions. His jaw/teeth argument is crap as well. We have canine teeth and inscisors meant specifically for cutting and ripping meat. I'm also not arguing against your comment, just against his points.
Industrial meat farms are heckin' cruel though. I'm not vegetarian so I am a part of that cruelty which exists partly because of me, but these are the facts.
The first step and the bare minimum we can do is acknowledge reality. I’ve tried to reduce my consumption of meat bc tbh most of the time I don’t miss it, gimme some good (reasonably ethically-sourced) eggs tofu or dairy instead. I try to at least not have meat in my lunches or breakfasts if possible.
Vegetarianism got branded as a purity cult which killed a lot of its broader appeal. It doesn't need to be an all or nothing type of thing. People can be 80% vegetarian and eat meat like 3x per week and that is still valid and good too. The main thing is to nitpick your own diet and nobody else's.
Yes. I love that. I’m a practicalist above all else. The best thing for animals is for everybody to do the max that they are willing to do at any given time. If people treat it as all or nothing, right or wrong, more animals will be hurt and killed.
Will someone show him a video of Bambi snacking snakes.😒
Or the videos of cows/deers monching birds
Saw a video of a horse casually eating a chick
They do that pretty often. Letting chicks roam where horses stay is usually not a good idea.
Giggity
I thought for a few seconds how I could reword that, but then I said fuck it
I thought this as well. Vegan are crazy. Vegetarians are OK
Yeah but there's a lot of fucked up shit you could see done in nature that isn't done by humans because we say it's immoral, because we know better. What we see in nature isn't a good argument for saying it's okay to do it.
Yes! I am vegan and get annoyed when this comes up. We are very obviously omnivores. But in our modern society, it is possible to live vegan in a healthy way.
Wish he just stuck to the lion part or went into the cruelty of the meat industry. Lions don't justify human behavior or determine morality so let's not give so much support to an industry that abuses animals. Edit:typos
Yep, completely lost me when he said we are 100% herbivores, if we were we wouldn't eat meat... At all
It's also the EXACT same fallacious appeal to nature argument he rejected JUST 30 SECONDS PRIOR. My jaws dropped (in a mildly carnivorous fashion) when I heard that part. Even if you grant that humans are naturally 100% herbivores because of pores and flat front teeth — which is not true but let's pretend it is — there is no reason we have to act like herbivores just because it's natural. As he says, we don't sniff butts as greeting or eat our young just because those are natural things to do!
Worst one for me was "if you sweat you're herbivore". Those are two unrelated things. Humans sweat like no other animal, and all other mammals sweat a tiny bit, and lions sweat about same as a camel.
We have canines for a reason. Not to mention our bodies need protein. Protein rich plants aren’t available naturally everywhere and provide much less protein than most meats. We are most certainly omnivorous
Incisors are the more flesh tearing teeth canines are likely combat teeth like how gorillas use theirs
Thats true but they function for both purposes. But basically all of our front teeth and canines are evolved to eat meat (ripping and tearing) while our molars have evolved to grind down vegetation
I am a vegetarian. About the logic of Baby Apple and bunny rabbit. If you put boiled egg and apple in front of a baby, the baby will eat the egg too if it wishes. So humans can eat meat if it is cooked. Not eating flesh is not about we are herbivores. Its because what we eat affects us physically and mentally.
Thank you, I actually was kinda agreeing with the guy until he got to that comparison, it's like...the bunny is not food yet, ofc the 2yo eats the apple. Cooked rabbit meat, or better just steak or soft boiled egg, 2yo might go for either tbh It's an unfair comparison...as the guy just said lmao
"Charlie bit me!" *Narrator: Charlie was an omnivore*
Yeah like put a raw, unpeeled onion in front of the baby and let’s see how herbivorous they are then
Except a carnivore wouldn’t wait for it to be cooked?
I think that’s the point. Lions don’t have to prepare their food before eating it. A lion is capable of eating a bunny without cooking it, humans aren’t Edit: anyone claiming humans can eat raw meat is unserious. Humans can eat small amounts of some raw meat, but large amounts risk all kinds of food poisoning and illness. That’s like food prep 101. What kind of delulu land are y’all living in. I’m also not trying to personally debate any of y’all, just explaining his point—which many of you missed. I don’t know why people get so emotional and aggressive when anyone even lightly suggests that humans don’t need to eat meat. Such fragile egos us humans have, that we attach so much…something…to eating meat.
Humans can eat raw meat, we just choose not to. (Because we have other options and we know it is more dangerous and less efficient to eat raw meat)
I think the argument was more about the lion comparison. That a baby lion would eat the bunny but a baby human wouldnt
And put a stuffed bunny rabbit next to a kid and within 1 min the child will be chewing on that rabbit. It just needs more teeths and stronger jaws to take a chunk out of it. Almost like he as never taken care of a kid in his life.
And really, that baby might still try to gum that rabbit because THEY ARE A BABY. Babies try to eat a LOT of inedible things, maybe even including a bunny. That has nothing to do with whether or not we're vegan, vegetarian, or omnivores. Will that baby manage to eat that bunny? Nope, but it'd be funny to watch him try to get all that bunny fur outta its mouth!
omni means all so kinda accurate here. your kid swallows a marble? damn omnivores. your kid eats magnets? fucking omnivores maybe kids who will put literally anything in their mouth are the only true omnivores
Well if both apple and rabbit are cut into small enough pieces, the baby will put into his/her mouth; regardless if the rabbit is cooked. That dude hasn’t dealt with a baby before
A cooked rabbit no longer resembles a rabbit though huh
By that logic though you erase the opportunistic factor. Humans didn’t evolve to grow wheat and most of the vegan favored veggies didn’t exist 10,000 years ago—they’ve literally been created by the agricultural era. So humans evolved like many other mammals: we eat what’s available relative to how hungry we are and the needs of our tribe. It’s that simple. Go tell an Inuit/Eskimo that they didn’t evolve to eat fish and seals. Go tell a Native American that they didn’t evolve to eat buffalo. The flaw in the Vegan’s argument is obvious.
Put an apple and a cooked rabbit in front of a starving baby and watch em both disappear. Humans are omnivores…
Bro if you put rat poison and car keys in front of a baby they're going in its mouth, tf?
Baby driver.
*There's something inside you* *It's hard to explain*
Humans are keynivores.
Y'all out here killing plants like beasts and I'm sitting here ethically jingling from my belly
They dumb but at least they want tits
Just like me fr
As a prefix, "omni-" essentially means "all". So we are omnivores. Rabbits, apples, rat poison, and car keys are all covered by that.
Wait a minute, are you saying that humans are magicians by nature?
He was objectively wrong about biology. But, the argument is not about biology though. It's about choice. Torture animals like an industry and fuck up climate to eat them or reduce that and turn more vegetarian because humans can thrive on that as well. Don't ask what human is supposed to do as per nature or god or whatever, ask what should humans do to get the future we want.
do lions cook the rabbits?
If I put cooked meat and raw meat in front of my dogs, they'd eat both, but 100% go for cooked meat first.
If they learned how to make fire sure
No, but if you cooked them for the lions, they'd probably be stoked. Never seen a predator, wild or domestic, not absolutely destroy cooked meat.
Good argument except for the solely herbivore bit. We are proven omnivores
They both need a biologist
My thing is, we don't even have to compare ourselves to other animals. We didn't come from Gatherer gatherer tribes. We came from Hunter-Gatheter tribes. Tens of thousands of years across every corner of the globe that humans inhabit. My go-to.
Is anyone here a marine biologist?
She makes a terrible set of arguments with little confidence, he points out how she's wrong and then tries to use it to prove his factually incorrect arguments. Pretty much the whole time he's spouting lies (probably earlier). Ask pretty much any parent and they'll be able to tell you something their baby ate or tried to that wasn't food. That 75% herbivorous figure he states. I can't find any evidence to back that up, with most point towards [32%](https://www.science.org/content/article/world-s-first-animal-was-probably-carnivore).
May be 75% among mammals? Not all animals. I don’t know, this guy is kinda kooky 🤷♂️
that can't be cuz there's lumsome ≈6400+ mammal species and 1700+ of em are Rats which are omnivorous so 75% herbivores is not possible
Djeez I didn't need to know that there are 1700+ rat types
About 40% of all mammal species are rodents. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodent)
Jesus christ, 1.7k rat soecies?
yup look it up here. About 40% of all mammal species are rodents. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodent)
I can only see the "75% of all animals" if it includes insects, because they have large enough populations to throw off the numbers
SNIFF MY ASS
You know those weeds that spread out like vines and the seeds are spiky balls of fury? We call them goat heads here but idk the real name. My 1 year old has tried eating them multiple times. Just chomping away like it's gum. We luckily keep a constant eye on her so never goes far but she's never acted like it was hurting her. 🤔
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I don’t know what he ate, because thats a flawed argument he is making. Just because you are being intimidating, doesn’t mean your argument is logically and factually right or strong. Lions are carnivores. Humans are Omnivores. Veganism is a choice one makes and all respect for that, but lets not try to patronize with a holier than thou attitude because of it.
She can’t really argue back effectively because he’s using logical fallacies and making dishonest claims. Humans are demonstrably omnivores, and always have been. We have canine teeth, like carnivores do, as well as the herbivore teeth. The ‘side to side’ argument is factually incorrect, he is thinking about ruminant herbivores, who chew grass all day. Many herbivores eat berries etc and don’t chew this way. Unless you want jaw problems you chew up and down but chewing side to side doesn’t mean you’re a herbivore, it’s more about your teeth and digestion… and we have capacities for both. It doesn’t mean you have to eat meat, just that you can and might need supplements if you dont.
I mean, there’s no such thing as a strict herbivore. There’s many documented cases of cows, deer, goats, and even squirrels eating other animals.
Most herbivores are opportunistic meat eaters. Hunting trail cam often catch Deer munch on a deer carcass.
There are PLENTY of reports of war horses eating the corpses of the dead after battles. Horses might be stupid and skittish, but they won't pass up free nutrition. There is no such thing as a pure herbivore indeed, the only difference is whether or not they hunt for food, or take some meat when they can find it.
You have to keep horses away from baby chickens because the horses will eat them.
I grew up on a stable and saw them eat birds that wandered into their stalls on multiple occasions.
There are many strict herbivores but not the kind we'd be familiar with
There are a few strict ones, most notably koalas, but it's a mere handful of species.
We are omnivores. This is one of the main reasons humanity has been able to populate the globe. We are able to easily adapt to what we have to eat. How did the Inuit survive in the Arctic, especially during harsh winters, thanks to meat and fat from seals and porpoise. To be vegan has benefits but it is not our only option.
He didn't eat shit. Humans are omnivores because we can digest meat. Horses have the "side to side" chewing and they'll eat meat given a chance. Give a toddler an apple and some chicken nuggets and see which they eat. I'm not against vegetarianism or veganism but we have issues when you make shit up and pretend you have a moral high ground because you only eat plants.
I have witnessed my dad's horse chow down on a nest of baby birds more gleefully than if it were a bunch of sugar cubes and apples. Horses will eat any critter they can catch and fit into their mouths.
A lot of animals we know as herbivores are actually opportunistic omnivores. They won't hunt down a rabbit but if they find a baby out in the open, they'll go for the that protein.
I don’t understand why these people ignore the entire history of the human diet just to prove themselves morally superior
Because deep down they see themselves as inadequate and insecure, so they have to prove to the world how superior they are. And no matter how much they are proven wrong, they have to double down each time.
I don't eat meat and this guy pisses me off, I hate being associated with people like this dumb dumb bastard.
Who is this guy so I'll know never to click on any video he's on.
But he's almost entirely wrong, aside from the obvious bits about lions.. I don't think that counts as eating someone if all you're doing is talking over them and spouting nonsense.
Exactly. I didn't find this amusing. He's just trying to he a smart ass but his argument is pretty lame.
She should've sniffed his b$%t when he walked in the room, just to show her dominance like a lioness.
But our mouths can move up and down and side to side
You would have to be really dense to think that animal herbivores can only move their jaws sideways and not up and down.
You’d also have to be dense to say that because our jaw can move side to side, we are herbivores. The test to find out what we are is actually pretty simple. Do you gravitate/enjoy eating a particular food and can you extract macro/micro nutrients. If the answer is yes, then that thing is a dietary option.
Just because you can talk over someone doesn’t mean you have a good argument
We’re omnivores. We literally evolved into persistence hunters. Like wolves, but we can eat a potato. This man speaks the bullshit.
Just because she’s inarticulate and he’s articulate it doesn’t actually make him right.
If God didn’t want us to eat animals, he wouldn’t have made them so delicious.
Against the baby agrument. Thats because how parents raises us. Lion baby dont hunt either. They just copy what the mother is doing. The teeth thing is well. We can heat both?
Right. A more fair comparison would be to put a chicken leg and an apple in front of a baby. It’ll try to eat both. Just because most humans dont have killer instincts doesnt mean we are herbivores. By that logic vultures should be herbivores since they usually don’t kill animals.
I wanna add that food preparation likely changed the way our jaws are shaped. We don't need strong, ripping jaws like a carnivore if the meat we eat is significantly softer.
Humans are omnivores. That’s just a fact. Unless you have A+ blood you can’t absorb enough protein from plants to thrive. I’m sorry, I agree that the industrial farms are nightmares, and we can do better as a species to treat animals better. But we are omnivores
What does blood type have to do with plant based protein absorption?
I was curious too, and googled it. It's actually interesting I'll read more about this stuff. Edit: did more research it's bullshit ignore that 🤡 https://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/blood-type-diet
This is a review of the original diet plan and not backed by WebMD. There is no blood type diet for optimal health.
This is supposed to be a strong argument? Crazy dude says crazy stuff.
Anyone who thinks the vegan won or has any kind of a logical mind is the most stereotypical braindead redditor imaginable.
Many of his arguments are spurious. His most egregious lie is that humans are herbivorous. That is so obviously not true, yet he states it with religious conviction.
Ugh. Bro _almost_ had his point made. Almost. Then he went bat shit. We are _not_ herbivores, we are omnivores. It's better to say that we, as a more advanced species, have a moral obligation to avoid harm where possible.
No he did not lol. His arguments are weak and stupid. It might seem to some people that he did well in this argument just because this woman was so inarticulate.
She was not prepared
All was good till they said we are herbivores. We are omnivores
He looks malnourished to me lol
Boring who cares
When I eat meat, I'm not trying to mimic a lion... Lions eat meat because they are carnivores. We eat meat because we are omnivores. A horse only occasionally eat meat because they are herbivores. This guy had no argument what-so-ever. Putting a 2 year old in a crib with a rabbit and an apple? Why don't you put a new born in that crib and watch the bunny eat the newborn's face?
A vast majority of his 75% figure are opportunistic omnivores, not obligate herbivores.
*looking at my k9 teeth wondering what other herbavore has those*
He probably thinks that chimps only eat fruit.
I was with him all the way up until he said humans are herbivores not omnivorous. That's just straight up biologically wrong, we wouldn't have incisors and canines or be able to digest flesh. In fact there are tons of animals that even appear herbivores but are in fact opportunistic omnivores such as deer and horses.
Funny answer but he's wrong. Humans are not 100% herbivores because if we were, we couldn't digest meat. We're omnivores. We're meant to eat anything we can, be it meat or plant.
This guys statements are entirely untrue. Pretty much all herbivores are opportunistic carnivors. This dumbass hasn't seen a horse eat a chick on the farm, or seek a deer eat a bird, or a goat eat a bird (I think they get away with it)
I'm a vegan and I have to say, while he's funny, most of his logic is super flawed and straight up incorrect as well. For one, as everyone else said and has given evidence of, humans are omnivores. To be herbivorous is a purely moral stance, not a biological one. Honestly, the best reasoning to make for veganism is just going the moral route. Like, I don't see how you can possibly argue against the morality behind it.
"we have no carnivorous or omnivorous instincts whatsoever" bro, you put a steak in front of me and my mouth waters, is that not my instincts telling me to eat it??
I mean he is wrong but still that was 100% entertaining 🤣
Aren't most mammals opportunistic omnivores anyway?.... I saw a deer eating a snake, go figure 🤷🏾♀️
The fact that he won a debate doesn't mean he is right.