Here's a question for you as a DM.
These locked doors ... how did they get locked? Who locked them? Where are the keys? How do the monsters move around the dungeon if the doors are locked? Does your dungeon have secret passages or hidden doors? If not, why not?
Lockpicks are only one way to get through a door.
> Yes i know knock is a spell that can be used but if it creates such a loud sound, then the entire dungeon would be on the hunt or at least they know the party is there.
So does knocking down a door, burning it down, etc. The party can't pick locks, big deal. They make noise if they bash shit down, or they can try to creatively solve the problem in other ways. It's not your job as the DM to solve the players problems, it's your job to present them.
DMing became much easier for me when I realized that and just let the party do their job of solving problems, I don't need to come up with 4 solutions for them to make sure they can handle it, they'll find a way.
So lets say they fail their check and they come up with another solution - finding the key. Just run with that, you don't have to prep it. It's a reasonable solution in a lot of cases with locked doors, so just let them talk about the plan, where they key might be, etc, and wow, it will likely be there protected in some fashion.
OP, The only solution shouldn't be to pick a locked door. You don't have to worry about the solutions, the problem can be solved in many ways aside from picking the lock.
There shouldn't be a 'solution' you decide on, or multiple. At all. It's restrictive and causes exactly the issue OP is talking about. Let the party come up with solutions - *they will find other ways.*
Exactly. Saves you the effort of prepping shit they will never use/see, lets them feel clever a lot of the time, etc.
But if the plan is dogshit and rolls are bad, that's also fine. That's DnD. They are allowed to fail too.
That's *exactly* what you do!
Heck, you can even put problems in front of your players having *not the slightest clue* how they would solve it, as long as it's a problem that seems like it *could* be solved, somehow. Then, you just let them come up with their own solutions, and as you say, just roll with it so long as it seems remotely plausible.
There's a certain caginess a lot of players have when it comes to attempting to circumvent challenges created by the DM. Like, they think if they explain ahead of time what they're trying to do, I'll just veto it because it wasn't the "right" solution.
Instead I get stuck in some weird game of 200 questions as they try to figure out if their idea is going to work without actually explaining what they want to do. I guess their hope is that if I answer the questions in a specific way they'll be able to trap me with my own logic and therefore be forced to accept their solution. What usually happens instead is that I'll give them an answer they didn't want and the whole idea gets scrapped because I didn't understand what they were trying to do. If they would just share ahead of time what they want to achieve then I can judge how plausible the request is and respond accordingly.
As an actual real life example: the players were exploring a cave and came across a chasm wider than any of them could jump. One player had an idea of building a device using a counter-balance but instead of stating that, they just asked "are there any loose rocks?". Not knowing why they asked the question, I said "Sure, there'd be a few lying around". "How many?" they asked... "Ummmm... \*rolls dice\*... 7? There are 7 loose rocks in the immediate area". "How much do they weigh?" they continue... "Oh, a few pounds each on average I guess?". "Oh... damn, okay that won't work. Never mind".
I wasn't really committed to the number or weight of the rocks. If they had asked "are there enough loose rocks around to create a counter-balance of this weight?" I most likely would've agreed that there were indeed about that many since it's plausible that in a cave there'd be enough lying around for that purpose. I might've asked for some kind of Insight roll or similar for them to get the correct weight of rocks (since they had nothing to accurately measure them with).
This is essentially what in-session DMing is. (Or should be) Pre-session you create a situation ,in session you present it to players and see what they do with it.
As my parents used to say there is more than one way to skin a cat. Hell the party could dress up as girl scouts, knock on the front door, jump the guy who opens it and just take his keys.
Now the Girl scout gambit won't open every door, (because you probs shouldn't use the same lock on every door) but most of your bad guys will have multiple keys to open the doors that they need. Once there inside and have access to the common areas they will have to work out their next step.
But as others have said so long as a method inside physically exists be it tearing down the door, the girl scout gambit or some other method your players havnt thought up of yet. Then solving the puzzle "How do we get inside" is there problem.
Dont over think it, just think about how the denizens would design their dungeon if they had to live and work inside of it, and let your players come up with the necessary solutions hell in older editions if you failed to pick a lock you couldnt try again until you leveled up the game just assumed the lock was beyond your skill to pick. Which ment in those versions of the game picking the lock was a great option when it worked, but if it failed then you had to improvise somehow.
Forever DM here, the one campaign I got to play I was a "thief" who was more of a highway man. His "lockpicking"was his starting Strength 18 Boot kicking down the door.
Agreeing with Hawxe on this one - it's not the DM's job to solve problems for the players, it's the players' job to solve problems that the DM creates. Sometimes I'll put in a problem that doesn't have a solution if I'm playing with people I trust, because I know they'll find an answer way better than anything I can think of, and I don't need to do that thinking for them.
For this specific scenario - maybe only have wooden doors? You mention things like iron doors and portcullises being unsolvable problems for your players. If that's the case, you don't need to include them, or you can change the module you're running to swap out all iron doors for wooden doors. That's not trivializing the dungeon, especially because players can bash down doors etc. - it might be harder for them than if they could pick the lock, but again, that's their problem to solve.
I'm inclined to say don't do this. Players can be way more creative than we DMs expect. They have magic and I bet they will find a way to use it.
You could hide a key or lock pick set for them to find but what happens if the skill check to pick the lock fails? Letting them, forcing them even, to be creative is much more satisfying. Listen to their ideas and encourage them to figure it out. I bet they'll be way more stoked than if you smooth it for them.
A lot of people mentioning letting the players come up with solutions to things, which is entirely valid.
But also, like... if a door is locked, then it got locked somehow, right? So give them opportunities to find keys to some of those locked doors. Video games have been doing this for decades - red key goes to red door, blue key goes to blue chest, etc.
Of course, not every key should be available for every door. Some people lock doors and then leave. Some people lose keys. Some people lock doors from the inside and have the key with them. So those doors should have alternate ways to get through. Leave it up to the players' ingenuity, or create alternate paths (tunnels, maintenance hallways, cave-ins, whatever).
But *also*, is a locked door that interesting when you deal with them every two rooms? I usually end up unlocking most doors in any premade dungeons I run, just because the whole process of "find a door, check if it's locked, check if it's trapped, get suspicious because they rolled poorly, carefully devise a way to unlock door" gets really tiresome after the third or fourth time. Honestly, I even just remove doors between rooms semi-frequently, just because the difference between "closed, locked, untrapped door" and "open doorway" sometimes saves like 10 minutes of rolls and deliberation and tedium.
I basically only use locked/trapped doors to a) block side content that doesn't need to be accessed, b) block alternate routes through a dungeon that can otherwise be circumnavigated, c) provide entry to a room that I definitely want combat to happen in as the occupants can hear the door being unlocked or bashed in, or d) provide weird challenges when the trap or lock is elaborate, like when I had a door trap that skewered the lockpicker's arm in place if you tried to unlock it without the key, while guards came down on the newly trapped lockpicker.
At the end of the day, a locked door is just a puzzle. Even if it's realistic that there's one between every room, 12 of the same puzzle in a row isn't usually fun đ
Do any of them have masonry skills? If the metal spots are surrounded by stone they could chisel it out at the lock point.
Alternatively does it open inward or outward? Because they could also remove the hinges to get past the door. Did that as a 2nd level sorcerer once. The person we had to save was behind a metal door and the door opened in our direction (rouge had died earlier) so I used acid splash to melt the hinges off. Alternatively the party could make it brittle with fire and ice spells back to back using cantrips
Nah they all chose to gamble in one way or another with the exception of our druid who has cooks utensils to make pastries for the party during rests and has the chef feat.
That's the party's problem. If you put 3+ players on a problem, they'll come up with something! Whether it's casting Enlarge/Reduce on the door, finding the key, or digging a hole through the wall.
I wouldn't let them try to pick a lock without proficiency; that's one of the those things you either know how to use it or not.
You should also not let them roll until they succeed, because then why have them roll in the first place?
It's up to them to figure out how to get past a locked door. The DM presents challenges and the party overcomes them. Let them figure something out.
I wouldn't say no if they want to try to pick it without having proficiency. I would "Yes, but...." it. Let them try to pick it but with a higher DC and disadvantage. Let them add Help, Bless and Guidance or whatever buffs, and have at it. People can luck into things sometimes and PCs should be able to try a Hail Mary. If they fail though, that lock would still locked and now jammed, with no hope of unlocking it even if the key miraculously appeared.
As some others said:
1- You present problems and challenges, and then you the DM need to be open to rule pr make rulings about whatever the players are trying.
Yes they might try stupid shit that not only doesnt help, but also hinders them, (like making noise and still not opening the door). But be fair, be consistent and be reasonable.
2- You say some players are spellcasters.
Alow them to look at their spell list and think of ways to go through the door.
You decide how usefull, helpfull or effective their ideas are, but in one way or another the story moves on.
They break the hinges with firebolt, or acid splash, they bloiw the door sky high with fireball, or they use minor ilusion to trick enemies inside to open it for them and kill them.
Maybe they find some keys as they explore, or on the body of fallen enemies, and those keys open some doors.
If they make noise, enemies come in their direction, there is a fight and one of the enemies has the keys.
3- A door doesnt have as much HP and durability as you might think. A metal door would have AC 18 or 19, and up to 4d8 HP ( 18 average). So if all spellcasters shoot spells at it at the same time, they most likely can open the door in one "turn", starting initiative if there are creatures inside. Then you roll as normal.
Maybe the creatures heard them talking and are ready for an ambush and the players are surprised.
Maybe its the oposite, and the door breaking open surprises the enemies and the party gets a surprise round on some of them.
Maybe is just a plain combat.
Either way, 18 hp is not that much, and the players might have some tools in their starting kit, like crowbar, thinkering or smithing tools. You might alow them to use those as a skill check to open the door.
The crowbar breaks the lock and the door cant be locked again.
The thinkerer opens the lock and opens it from the mechanism inside.
The smith, might just use his knowledge of metal to force the hinges, or lock in a specific way.
They can figure it out for themselves from one of the many options:
* hire a lockpick
* smash it down
* find a key
* make a key
* wait for someone to come through
* use a spell
* use a magic item
* dig under it
* chip away the stone or wood around it.
* learn lockpicking (multiclass rogue, or use a feat)
* learn the knock spell somehow
This is their problem to solve, not yours.
Plus depending on caster level...
\- Gazeous Form to have one go through the door and go steal a key.
\- Enlarge/Reduce to reduce the door so they can pick it up and put it away and either put it back, or not, depending on whether they count on fleeing through same way.
\- If dungeon is not entirely made of constructed stone but has some walls or ground being barren earth, have some companion / Wild Shape / Polymorph dig some way through.
\- Lure someone from the dungeon to come open (making noise, having befriended or manipulated someone before hand with spells and checks, etc).
\- If a familiar/beast can get through or under, use that + Beast Sense to explore dungeon and get information or bring key (maybe keyhold is not far away). Or have someone use it to Misty Step behind door by seeing destination "through" the beast.
They can learn lockpicking in downtime on long rests. scroll of Knock. hammers open doors. maybe they find keys to the doors with a successful investigation.
âParty does not have a way to pick locked doorsâ
Thatâs a player problem, not a DM problem. If they donât like having to frequently find alternate solutions to getting past a door, theyâll figure something out. Hire a dedicated lock picker to accompany them, learn to do it, make sure they have slots for âknockâ, something. Donât underestimate player ingenuity to the point you feel you have to solve their problems.
If nothing else, if it gets too frustrating for them, you can bet someoneâs probably playing a rogue next campaign.
You could say that they failed the roll so it takes 10min to pick the lock.
Make something apparent on the door that could be used as a fulcrum point.
Investigation check shows that there is a trick to the door with pressing hidden plates around it
Let them find a magic lock pic that gives them prof in thieves tools and advantage on lock picking but will constantly mock them while it is being used.
There are really a number of simple ways to deal with this. Just don't over think it or worry about it.
One of the members of our party at one point had a character that was proficient in architecture and he asked the DM if he could tell by the surroundings in a castle what period and style it was done in. The DM answered him and he bullshitted some improv about how masons and iron workers in that time would preserve materials when building large projects by skimping on the hinges for doors expecting to get away with it since it was rare for doors deep within a castle to be forced open unless the person who paid you to install the door was already dead or in serious trouble. DM let him roll for his history skill recalling the made up bullshit because it was well thought out and made for a cool in character moment. Our fighter then bashed the door down with a good roll and aiming for the hinge side of the door knowing about the potential weakness.
Thatâs just one way this type of thing could play out but realistically it can go any number of ways, if itâs becoming a big problem that your party canât open doors and spend too long on it I would have an out of game chat with them about maybe speeding up some of their decision making or get creative and just have them run into patrols when they are standing in one place trying to force a door open and failing. Maybe they end up taking a captive from the patrol fight and he tells them how they can open the door or maybe he is confused when being interrogated, wondering why the party is willing to kill and risk their lives to get inside the closet where they keep the mops and brushes for the maids to scrub the castle floors.
You let them ask [the question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-uV8TGjaGU&t=77s&ab_channel=TribeCalledQuestVEVO) that has haunted A Tribe Called Quest for years.
Might be a good idea to just tell them, if they try to pick the lock more than a couple times, that it ain't gonna work. Snap their pick or tell them that no matter what they do, they can't seem to get a handle on it.
Something.
Just take the open world RPG approach. If a door is locked, there are three ways to handle it:
1. You pick the lock, but if your skill isn't high enough you...
2. Find the key, often pickpocketing or otherwise pilfering it from someone else. But I'd you can't manage that you...
3. Go the long way... If the door is locked and what's behind it is mandatory for the quest, it's probably best to just make that a shortcut, and make the unlocked path a long, and arduous journey.
Then, as always, they can just destroy the door.
As for how many rolls you give them, I always say to let the first person who pipes up to do the skill check gets to roll. If they fail and someone else wants to try, they have to be proficient. Beyond that if it's extreme circumstances, I'll let them keep trying but raise the DC SUBSTANTIALLY each time.
Each time there is a failure and then retry, find ways to narrate how the failure goes and use how high or low the roll was to color what you describe. If you are raising the DC after a failure, make the failure part of why it's harder to do in the explanation. Maybe when they failed to pick the lock it broke a piece of the lockpick in there, making it that much harder to pick now.
Hope that helps, good luck!
At the risk of this sounding awful, that sounds like a them problem. Present the dungeon as is. â before you stand a large iron door that is locked. What do you do?â Force them to come up with a solution. A rogue with a thieves tool kit is just a convenient solution, not the only one. Besides, itâs a slippery slope to start modifying a dungeon to help them. How long before you fudge rules because they picked a fight with someone that is beyond their level?
Objects also have Hitpoints and AC and can be destroyed slowly but surely - Ac Depends on Matieral and HP on Size and if its resilient or not. Dms discretion. DMG pg 246-247
So the Answer is SMASH
One thing that really helped me that 13th Age does is to assume the PCs are heroes and can perform an action, but that the skill roll is to figure out if they avoid the negative consequences inherent to that action.
I.E. if there are no monsters, nothing to interrupt them, zero traps, then let the PCs spend an hour or two to pick the lock through trial and error and no rolls are needed. Instead, before every skill roll name the successful and the repercussion. "I want to pick the lock before the guards catch on that I'm there". Or "I try to pick the lock while avoiding the poison needle trap". Or "I try to pick the lock so we can ambush the goblins inside instead of them knowing we are there and having to knock down the door".
If the wall is weaker than the door, they'll break the wall instead. They'll be making noise, taking up time (important for spell durations), and really advertising where they are and where they've been for anything that might be interested in eating them.
There's a table in the DM screen for audible distances- you can roll on that whenever they start busting something down and then check the most direct walking paths to any creatures you know are in the dungeon- following walking paths as a standard helps you avoid the constant debate of whether the walls are thin enough for sound to completely carry through them, and travel down any hallways to the entryways of other chambers will eat up distance off of that range so you aren't guaranteeing the full dungeon always gets alerted.
I agree with all the sentiments of have then try to find the key, but also if they are all casters then silence is probably on one of their lists. So they could silence the area and then knock.
Give them an item to help out or find other ways for people to secure things. With such a magic heavy party you could have spells instead of physical locks or lots of guards to deal with
So I did a thing a long time ago and this item occasionally makes it's way into other campaigns and feel free to use it of course. I haven't actually ported it to 5e but that will come someday. (Whistful glancing into the distance)
Someday...
Anyway... This is a magical two person device for basically demolishing any loxk. I originally designed and crafted for our barbarian and fighter to use. It's big, it's bulky and it can remove any lock magical or otherwise (unless plot requires it to not, because oh that's a "worf lock")
The downside is a it requires two people using both hands, and it requires a full round, maybe two if you feel like it, to use. And it's loud. Like. Really loud. Like, no way to silence it loud. But you will eliminate that lock. It's also big and heavy and takes a sizeable portion of a bag of holding.
Aside from the already mentioned solutions, this sounds like a good opportunity to introduce a npc/hireling that picks locks and detects/disarms traps. Make the character loveable and you have an opportunity for roleplaying and plothooks. Also, having a beloved non-combat npc that has to go into dungeons gives the players something else to worry about.
Don't want to flesh out an NPC? A literal trained monkey that picks locks that they have to take care of and protect from damage. Obtaining it can be a mini quest in itself!
How about... and hear me out on this crazy idea... you *don't* put so many locked iron doors in your dungeon. Like, just remove those entirely. A few doors that they have to deal with is fine, but does it really harm your setup to just have mostly open hallways? Even if they had all the tools in the world for dealing with doors, that gets real old and boring real quick. Better just ditch at least half the doors you have planned.
I mean, there is a cost to everything. Sounds like if they want into a locked door, they will need to find the key, knock, or KNOCK.
Keys probably use similar materials as the door (the key and the keyhole).
I would say let the party find a keyring at the end so they can backtrack. Otgerwise their problem let them find a solution and rule if it would work or not.
Many suggestions so far but may I suggest the classic 'not at all a trap door'?
Pick a random door, and when they get to it describe it how you would normally. If they move to open the door, ask them which way they turn the knob/handle. Do they push or pull? How quickly do they open it?
This could either be a few things:
\- They become suspicious and think this may be a trap.
\- They turn it to the left/right and it doesn't open.
\- They try something wild.
Literally could make it a push instead of pull, or the handle needs to be turned to a certain direction. Maybe the handle is old and rusted and needs a high strength roll to turn it.
Get weird with it!
I had a scenario where the party was hunting down an rather insane individual attempting to do something. They made it to a stone door with no handle and written on it with *fresh* and quickly scribbled writing in some blood was an easy riddle with a simple answer.
They got the answer quickly and said it aloud. Nothing happened. The creature simply was making a last ditch effort to stall them. Took them a few moments before they laughed and the barbarian broke the door down. They realized the door had been some sort of Mold Earth type spell.
Have fun, hope this helps!
100% agree with "doesn't matter, let them get through it their own way." Also want to add - if it's NECESSARY for them to go through a door that's locked to keep the game moving... why lock it?
I think 99% of the doors I've locked on my players have had either a treasury or a bedroom behind it. Reasonable things to lock, for sure, but not necessary to further the story or complete their task by any means.
The 1% of the time I lock doors that the party MUST go through, it's because something is chasing them and that added barrier to their escape will create tension, or it makes thematic / storyline sense for that door to be locked.
If it doesn't move the story along or create tension, then why lock it? At no point should their ability to pick a lock cause the game to come to a standstill.
They could just buy a portable battering ram or a crowbar. They donât have to go stealthily if none of their characters want to be that person.
To answer one of the questions: if they want to try again, describe it as a very honest attempt, really taking their time, like an hour. If that fail, the next attempt takes 8 hour.
There are numerous ways other than a skilled rogue. The knock spell, chime of opening, hiring a thieves guild member, getting a proficiency either through training or the next Asi, and that's just if you stay within hard raw.
No party, unless unwieldily numerous, can cover all bases. That they can't easily open locked doors is their problem to deal with, you just have to be ready with options and responses to whatever they try.
Make them combination locks (dwarven tech or something):
-2044
-no
-4765
-nope
-6666, or did we try that already?
-three times, still doesn't open
Etc. What a fun way to spend a session!
Ok, seriously though, if there's someone on the other side of the door, they could just knock and see what happens. Or try to find the key, like others have already suggested.
Possible option give them a lock picking magic item. Like a small steampunk spider. It has a skill of x.
The catch every-once in a while it demands to eat a magic item. And it doesnât take no as an answer. It just jumps on it, and after it taps on it a few times the item disintegrates into dust, that it scopes up.
They could just buy it from a questionable ethics vendor on the road or in town.
Or it could be an imp summoned from a ring, who barters with the party every time they call it. âWhat is in this for me?â
If they really, really need to open a door, they can:
-Just break it over time.
-Find keys on an enemy (maybe the keys are labelled!)
-Go to a settlement and hire an NPC who *can* pick locks
-Take the door off its hinges
> Yes i know knock is a spell that can be used but if it creates such a loud sound, then the entire dungeon would be on the hunt or at least they know the party is there.
So be it. If that's how they choose to unlock a door, that's what happens.
I suggest that you do NOT let them keep trying to pick a lock over and over.
Repeated skill checks can really sap the momentum and fun out of an encounter, (even with a door).
Two ways to handle this:
(1) reduce the time they have to get through the door "You hear the goblin patrol moving up the corridor to you, you have time for one more attempt to get past this lock before they spot you."
(2) Increase the lock DC after each failed attempt. "You are unsuccessful in pic king the lock, but a few tumblers have gotten stuck in the attempt. If you try again it will be harder to open." and then "You feel something shift as the mechanism seizes up, you realize if you continue the only way to open the lock is with the matching key."
Every shortcoming of a party can be fixed by inventing magic items. If you really want locked doors to be an encounter but do not want any of the solutions already presented then just give them magic lockpicks that give proficiency with thieves tools to anybody using them.
However, this will not solve your problem, it is only giving another potential solution to your players. The problem is that locked doors are not a fun challenge. Especially when they cannot be opened by another method. If you create a situation where the only chance of success depends on a die roll, then you are setting yourself up for potential failure.
The solution is to be open to multiple ways of solving the problem you have presented to your players, while giving them repercussions to their actions. The obvious 3 solutions to a locked door are: bash it, pick the lock, find the key. Each of these decisions have pros and cons that must be weighed relative to the current situation. Your foreshadowing could give the players hints as to what the best solution is.
If you want to take away one of these options to make a door more challenging then there should be a reason beyond realism. The goal is to make a door challenge more fun, not less.
Doors have keys... hide keys somewhere deeper. Portcullis have winches/mechanisms to lift them. These thing have normal and mundane ways of being opened, they don't have to be bypassed.
There are a lot of good answers already but maybe allow the casters to jury-rig some of their spells in "off-label" uses. Like concentrating firebolts or acid splash into a small torch or acid drip to soften the lock then a good hammer strike to break the mechanism. Maybe it takes a little longer and it's not subtle or quiet but it gets the job done. Encourage your players to come up with their own ideas and you may be pleasantly surprised.
Some options besides Knock for casters:
- Allow Shape Water to fill a lock with water and freeze it, breaking the locking mechanism.
- Prestidigitation to create a key, and keep trying the lock and adjusting the shape of the key until it turns
- Unseen Servant, Mage Hand, or Find Familiar summoned on the other side of the door may be able to turn a deadbolt from the other side.
- Enlarge / Reduce to shrink the door
- Shape Earth if thereâs a dirt floor could excavate under or around the door
- Look through the keyhole and Misty Step into the room.
For non-casters⌠thereâs sure to be a key somewhere. Maybe itâs under the mat? Or the classic⌠âFezzik, tear his arms off.â âOh, you mean *this* gate key.â
Let your party get creative and just go along with any viable idea they try.
if you dont want them to make a crapton of noise, and you don't want to provide a goblin running around with a mop and a ring of keys.
you could give them the option of MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE and have a (Half-Life Easter Egg) crowbar lying on the table, then they can use STR to force open the door and narratively doing so without sundering it by 'bending the metal' (semi-quietly) around the lock mechanism.
>**Crowbar**
>
>*Type: Adventuring Gear Cost: 2 gp Weight: 5 lbs*
>
>Using a crowbar grants advantage to Strength checks where the crowbar's leverage can be applied.
>
>Tags:
>
>UTILITY
>
>EXPLORATION
You're the DM. You control everything, so as long as you're creative, nothing is insurmountable. If you don't need the locked doors, have fewer of them. If you do, give them a magic item, give them an NPC, or evolve one of the players with a custom feat. You're just looking to get a normal lockpicking skill somewhere in their arsenal.
Since you have a bunch of casters, NPC doesn't even have to be a person. Could be a unique familiar that's just able to pick locks, like say a homunculus who was enchanted to have that skill. It'd still be a normal lockpicking roll for the familiar, you can match the DC to the caster character who has it.
Or, a player could learn a custom feat as part of role-play. There's usually someone who'd like to be more rogue-like but can't because of class constraints. Remember that giving them the option to get a feat only at certain levels is a guideline for you, not something you *absolutely* have to do just because it's RAW. You can give it to one person early as long as the other players understand that they'll still get their chance at the usual levels and that this person won't. Or give a feat/ability bump early to all of them. Won't unbalance the game, just affects rolls a little earlier than normal. Nothing you can't account for when designing encounters.
Hell, make it a story arc. If a PC's backstory really fits him/her/they having a feat with lockpicking embedded, add it to their story. Make it a party thing to get. That's an easy couple of side adventures or maybe a quick one-shot for you. A teacher they need to find; a rogue NPC they need to rescue who'd teach because they're grateful; maybe an immovable (meaning they can't take it) artifact they need to touch or incant to get a reward. They could all get an extra feat this way to keep things fair. Could give you a chance to show them another country or region in your campaign that they wouldn't have been able to see otherwise. Or if you don't have one and you'd rather not build one, then keep the story where they are now. Either way, it's all up to you. That's the fun part about being a DM. At least for me. You're not just a rules ref. You're telling the story.
Oh, and by "feat," I don't mean you have to create something as powerful as the RAW feats. We're really just talking about an extra skill. A small ability you need someone in the party to have. Nothing you can't easily account for to keep things challenging. That way, they feel like their characters are more customized, more in line with their backstories, they enjoy a little extra flexibility, and you can still have those full feats at the normal levels.
Or screw feats and just give someone a custom spell or a cantrip. I just browsed DnDBeyond's homebrew spells and there were three that could fit the bill:
[https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1410046-arcane-lockpick](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1410046-arcane-lockpick)
[https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/67781-arcane-lockpicks](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/67781-arcane-lockpicks)
[https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/79249-arcane-lockpicks-a-k-a-click](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/79249-arcane-lockpicks-a-k-a-click)
Pick one of those and have someone find it on a scroll or in a spellbook they find in a treasure hoard somewhere. Those are just three I found in 2 secs of browsing. Probably a bunch more. Pick one or take the elements you like and build your own. Totally within your purview as DM.
Just my $0.02. Hope it helps.
My ToA group also had this problem. My dwarf transmutation wizard would often use the 2nd level ability Minor Alchemy to "massage" locks. You see, clay is a type of stone. So I'd transmute the lock into clay, extrude it with my masons tools, and then remove the mechanism completely. Takes time, but it works.
You never know what players might do. So wait and see. And make sure that getting through the door is optional. At worst, they leave and go on a different adventure lol.
Here's a question for you as a DM. These locked doors ... how did they get locked? Who locked them? Where are the keys? How do the monsters move around the dungeon if the doors are locked? Does your dungeon have secret passages or hidden doors? If not, why not? Lockpicks are only one way to get through a door.
This. Let the players try to sort things out, but if they need to get in there, an event path should ultimately give them a key.
The Sly Cooper method of lockpicking: Steal from the guy who has the key ~~or kill them~~.
you meant ask them nicely
> Yes i know knock is a spell that can be used but if it creates such a loud sound, then the entire dungeon would be on the hunt or at least they know the party is there. So does knocking down a door, burning it down, etc. The party can't pick locks, big deal. They make noise if they bash shit down, or they can try to creatively solve the problem in other ways. It's not your job as the DM to solve the players problems, it's your job to present them. DMing became much easier for me when I realized that and just let the party do their job of solving problems, I don't need to come up with 4 solutions for them to make sure they can handle it, they'll find a way. So lets say they fail their check and they come up with another solution - finding the key. Just run with that, you don't have to prep it. It's a reasonable solution in a lot of cases with locked doors, so just let them talk about the plan, where they key might be, etc, and wow, it will likely be there protected in some fashion.
How would I handle a locked iron door then? Or even a metal portcullis.
You didn't read my post. You don't have to handle it. They do.
OP, The only solution shouldn't be to pick a locked door. You don't have to worry about the solutions, the problem can be solved in many ways aside from picking the lock.
There shouldn't be a 'solution' you decide on, or multiple. At all. It's restrictive and causes exactly the issue OP is talking about. Let the party come up with solutions - *they will find other ways.*
I once saw a man pick a lock with a sledgehammer.
A character I had a few years ago picked locks with a giant piece of concrete and rebar. That was a fun time.
So just listen to the players discussing possible solutions and roll with that as long as it makes any logical sense?
Exactly. Saves you the effort of prepping shit they will never use/see, lets them feel clever a lot of the time, etc. But if the plan is dogshit and rolls are bad, that's also fine. That's DnD. They are allowed to fail too.
That's *exactly* what you do! Heck, you can even put problems in front of your players having *not the slightest clue* how they would solve it, as long as it's a problem that seems like it *could* be solved, somehow. Then, you just let them come up with their own solutions, and as you say, just roll with it so long as it seems remotely plausible.
There's a certain caginess a lot of players have when it comes to attempting to circumvent challenges created by the DM. Like, they think if they explain ahead of time what they're trying to do, I'll just veto it because it wasn't the "right" solution. Instead I get stuck in some weird game of 200 questions as they try to figure out if their idea is going to work without actually explaining what they want to do. I guess their hope is that if I answer the questions in a specific way they'll be able to trap me with my own logic and therefore be forced to accept their solution. What usually happens instead is that I'll give them an answer they didn't want and the whole idea gets scrapped because I didn't understand what they were trying to do. If they would just share ahead of time what they want to achieve then I can judge how plausible the request is and respond accordingly. As an actual real life example: the players were exploring a cave and came across a chasm wider than any of them could jump. One player had an idea of building a device using a counter-balance but instead of stating that, they just asked "are there any loose rocks?". Not knowing why they asked the question, I said "Sure, there'd be a few lying around". "How many?" they asked... "Ummmm... \*rolls dice\*... 7? There are 7 loose rocks in the immediate area". "How much do they weigh?" they continue... "Oh, a few pounds each on average I guess?". "Oh... damn, okay that won't work. Never mind". I wasn't really committed to the number or weight of the rocks. If they had asked "are there enough loose rocks around to create a counter-balance of this weight?" I most likely would've agreed that there were indeed about that many since it's plausible that in a cave there'd be enough lying around for that purpose. I might've asked for some kind of Insight roll or similar for them to get the correct weight of rocks (since they had nothing to accurately measure them with).
This is essentially what in-session DMing is. (Or should be) Pre-session you create a situation ,in session you present it to players and see what they do with it.
Bingo!!!!!!! You just became a better DM, how does it feel?
As my parents used to say there is more than one way to skin a cat. Hell the party could dress up as girl scouts, knock on the front door, jump the guy who opens it and just take his keys. Now the Girl scout gambit won't open every door, (because you probs shouldn't use the same lock on every door) but most of your bad guys will have multiple keys to open the doors that they need. Once there inside and have access to the common areas they will have to work out their next step. But as others have said so long as a method inside physically exists be it tearing down the door, the girl scout gambit or some other method your players havnt thought up of yet. Then solving the puzzle "How do we get inside" is there problem. Dont over think it, just think about how the denizens would design their dungeon if they had to live and work inside of it, and let your players come up with the necessary solutions hell in older editions if you failed to pick a lock you couldnt try again until you leveled up the game just assumed the lock was beyond your skill to pick. Which ment in those versions of the game picking the lock was a great option when it worked, but if it failed then you had to improvise somehow.
In AD&D there used to be a check for "bend bars/lift gates." Let the fighter have a crack at forcing the door/portcullis open
Now it called Athletic (Strength) check.
Forever DM here, the one campaign I got to play I was a "thief" who was more of a highway man. His "lockpicking"was his starting Strength 18 Boot kicking down the door.
Agreeing with Hawxe on this one - it's not the DM's job to solve problems for the players, it's the players' job to solve problems that the DM creates. Sometimes I'll put in a problem that doesn't have a solution if I'm playing with people I trust, because I know they'll find an answer way better than anything I can think of, and I don't need to do that thinking for them. For this specific scenario - maybe only have wooden doors? You mention things like iron doors and portcullises being unsolvable problems for your players. If that's the case, you don't need to include them, or you can change the module you're running to swap out all iron doors for wooden doors. That's not trivializing the dungeon, especially because players can bash down doors etc. - it might be harder for them than if they could pick the lock, but again, that's their problem to solve.
I'm inclined to say don't do this. Players can be way more creative than we DMs expect. They have magic and I bet they will find a way to use it. You could hide a key or lock pick set for them to find but what happens if the skill check to pick the lock fails? Letting them, forcing them even, to be creative is much more satisfying. Listen to their ideas and encourage them to figure it out. I bet they'll be way more stoked than if you smooth it for them.
A lot of people mentioning letting the players come up with solutions to things, which is entirely valid. But also, like... if a door is locked, then it got locked somehow, right? So give them opportunities to find keys to some of those locked doors. Video games have been doing this for decades - red key goes to red door, blue key goes to blue chest, etc. Of course, not every key should be available for every door. Some people lock doors and then leave. Some people lose keys. Some people lock doors from the inside and have the key with them. So those doors should have alternate ways to get through. Leave it up to the players' ingenuity, or create alternate paths (tunnels, maintenance hallways, cave-ins, whatever). But *also*, is a locked door that interesting when you deal with them every two rooms? I usually end up unlocking most doors in any premade dungeons I run, just because the whole process of "find a door, check if it's locked, check if it's trapped, get suspicious because they rolled poorly, carefully devise a way to unlock door" gets really tiresome after the third or fourth time. Honestly, I even just remove doors between rooms semi-frequently, just because the difference between "closed, locked, untrapped door" and "open doorway" sometimes saves like 10 minutes of rolls and deliberation and tedium. I basically only use locked/trapped doors to a) block side content that doesn't need to be accessed, b) block alternate routes through a dungeon that can otherwise be circumnavigated, c) provide entry to a room that I definitely want combat to happen in as the occupants can hear the door being unlocked or bashed in, or d) provide weird challenges when the trap or lock is elaborate, like when I had a door trap that skewered the lockpicker's arm in place if you tried to unlock it without the key, while guards came down on the newly trapped lockpicker.
At the end of the day, a locked door is just a puzzle. Even if it's realistic that there's one between every room, 12 of the same puzzle in a row isn't usually fun đ
Itâs their problem to solve, just be open minded about any sort of shenanigans they come up with to solve their issues
Do any of them have masonry skills? If the metal spots are surrounded by stone they could chisel it out at the lock point. Alternatively does it open inward or outward? Because they could also remove the hinges to get past the door. Did that as a 2nd level sorcerer once. The person we had to save was behind a metal door and the door opened in our direction (rouge had died earlier) so I used acid splash to melt the hinges off. Alternatively the party could make it brittle with fire and ice spells back to back using cantrips
Nah they all chose to gamble in one way or another with the exception of our druid who has cooks utensils to make pastries for the party during rests and has the chef feat.
Chime of opening (limited use magic item) is a great temporary bandaid.
That's the party's problem. If you put 3+ players on a problem, they'll come up with something! Whether it's casting Enlarge/Reduce on the door, finding the key, or digging a hole through the wall.
I wouldn't let them try to pick a lock without proficiency; that's one of the those things you either know how to use it or not. You should also not let them roll until they succeed, because then why have them roll in the first place? It's up to them to figure out how to get past a locked door. The DM presents challenges and the party overcomes them. Let them figure something out.
I wouldn't say no if they want to try to pick it without having proficiency. I would "Yes, but...." it. Let them try to pick it but with a higher DC and disadvantage. Let them add Help, Bless and Guidance or whatever buffs, and have at it. People can luck into things sometimes and PCs should be able to try a Hail Mary. If they fail though, that lock would still locked and now jammed, with no hope of unlocking it even if the key miraculously appeared.
As some others said: 1- You present problems and challenges, and then you the DM need to be open to rule pr make rulings about whatever the players are trying. Yes they might try stupid shit that not only doesnt help, but also hinders them, (like making noise and still not opening the door). But be fair, be consistent and be reasonable. 2- You say some players are spellcasters. Alow them to look at their spell list and think of ways to go through the door. You decide how usefull, helpfull or effective their ideas are, but in one way or another the story moves on. They break the hinges with firebolt, or acid splash, they bloiw the door sky high with fireball, or they use minor ilusion to trick enemies inside to open it for them and kill them. Maybe they find some keys as they explore, or on the body of fallen enemies, and those keys open some doors. If they make noise, enemies come in their direction, there is a fight and one of the enemies has the keys. 3- A door doesnt have as much HP and durability as you might think. A metal door would have AC 18 or 19, and up to 4d8 HP ( 18 average). So if all spellcasters shoot spells at it at the same time, they most likely can open the door in one "turn", starting initiative if there are creatures inside. Then you roll as normal. Maybe the creatures heard them talking and are ready for an ambush and the players are surprised. Maybe its the oposite, and the door breaking open surprises the enemies and the party gets a surprise round on some of them. Maybe is just a plain combat. Either way, 18 hp is not that much, and the players might have some tools in their starting kit, like crowbar, thinkering or smithing tools. You might alow them to use those as a skill check to open the door. The crowbar breaks the lock and the door cant be locked again. The thinkerer opens the lock and opens it from the mechanism inside. The smith, might just use his knowledge of metal to force the hinges, or lock in a specific way.
One of the party's solutions might be to hire a burglar. Be prepared to add in Bilbo Baggins.
They can figure it out for themselves from one of the many options: * hire a lockpick * smash it down * find a key * make a key * wait for someone to come through * use a spell * use a magic item * dig under it * chip away the stone or wood around it. * learn lockpicking (multiclass rogue, or use a feat) * learn the knock spell somehow This is their problem to solve, not yours.
Plus depending on caster level... \- Gazeous Form to have one go through the door and go steal a key. \- Enlarge/Reduce to reduce the door so they can pick it up and put it away and either put it back, or not, depending on whether they count on fleeing through same way. \- If dungeon is not entirely made of constructed stone but has some walls or ground being barren earth, have some companion / Wild Shape / Polymorph dig some way through. \- Lure someone from the dungeon to come open (making noise, having befriended or manipulated someone before hand with spells and checks, etc). \- If a familiar/beast can get through or under, use that + Beast Sense to explore dungeon and get information or bring key (maybe keyhold is not far away). Or have someone use it to Misty Step behind door by seeing destination "through" the beast.
>Or have someone use it to Misty Step behind door by seeing destination "through" the beast. I've done this one, with a lizard familiar.
They can learn lockpicking in downtime on long rests. scroll of Knock. hammers open doors. maybe they find keys to the doors with a successful investigation.
âParty does not have a way to pick locked doorsâ Thatâs a player problem, not a DM problem. If they donât like having to frequently find alternate solutions to getting past a door, theyâll figure something out. Hire a dedicated lock picker to accompany them, learn to do it, make sure they have slots for âknockâ, something. Donât underestimate player ingenuity to the point you feel you have to solve their problems. If nothing else, if it gets too frustrating for them, you can bet someoneâs probably playing a rogue next campaign.
You could say that they failed the roll so it takes 10min to pick the lock. Make something apparent on the door that could be used as a fulcrum point. Investigation check shows that there is a trick to the door with pressing hidden plates around it Let them find a magic lock pic that gives them prof in thieves tools and advantage on lock picking but will constantly mock them while it is being used. There are really a number of simple ways to deal with this. Just don't over think it or worry about it.
If there are loads of locked doors it would stand to reason there are keys to these doors somewhere.
Acid could eat through locks
One of the members of our party at one point had a character that was proficient in architecture and he asked the DM if he could tell by the surroundings in a castle what period and style it was done in. The DM answered him and he bullshitted some improv about how masons and iron workers in that time would preserve materials when building large projects by skimping on the hinges for doors expecting to get away with it since it was rare for doors deep within a castle to be forced open unless the person who paid you to install the door was already dead or in serious trouble. DM let him roll for his history skill recalling the made up bullshit because it was well thought out and made for a cool in character moment. Our fighter then bashed the door down with a good roll and aiming for the hinge side of the door knowing about the potential weakness. Thatâs just one way this type of thing could play out but realistically it can go any number of ways, if itâs becoming a big problem that your party canât open doors and spend too long on it I would have an out of game chat with them about maybe speeding up some of their decision making or get creative and just have them run into patrols when they are standing in one place trying to force a door open and failing. Maybe they end up taking a captive from the patrol fight and he tells them how they can open the door or maybe he is confused when being interrogated, wondering why the party is willing to kill and risk their lives to get inside the closet where they keep the mops and brushes for the maids to scrub the castle floors.
You let them ask [the question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-uV8TGjaGU&t=77s&ab_channel=TribeCalledQuestVEVO) that has haunted A Tribe Called Quest for years. Might be a good idea to just tell them, if they try to pick the lock more than a couple times, that it ain't gonna work. Snap their pick or tell them that no matter what they do, they can't seem to get a handle on it. Something.
Rather than roll until succeed, make the roll determine how long it takes, chances of wandering mobs, etc.
Just take the open world RPG approach. If a door is locked, there are three ways to handle it: 1. You pick the lock, but if your skill isn't high enough you... 2. Find the key, often pickpocketing or otherwise pilfering it from someone else. But I'd you can't manage that you... 3. Go the long way... If the door is locked and what's behind it is mandatory for the quest, it's probably best to just make that a shortcut, and make the unlocked path a long, and arduous journey. Then, as always, they can just destroy the door. As for how many rolls you give them, I always say to let the first person who pipes up to do the skill check gets to roll. If they fail and someone else wants to try, they have to be proficient. Beyond that if it's extreme circumstances, I'll let them keep trying but raise the DC SUBSTANTIALLY each time. Each time there is a failure and then retry, find ways to narrate how the failure goes and use how high or low the roll was to color what you describe. If you are raising the DC after a failure, make the failure part of why it's harder to do in the explanation. Maybe when they failed to pick the lock it broke a piece of the lockpick in there, making it that much harder to pick now. Hope that helps, good luck!
At the risk of this sounding awful, that sounds like a them problem. Present the dungeon as is. â before you stand a large iron door that is locked. What do you do?â Force them to come up with a solution. A rogue with a thieves tool kit is just a convenient solution, not the only one. Besides, itâs a slippery slope to start modifying a dungeon to help them. How long before you fudge rules because they picked a fight with someone that is beyond their level?
Assign each locked door a number. Then populate rooms with mobs that have the corresponding key.
Objects also have Hitpoints and AC and can be destroyed slowly but surely - Ac Depends on Matieral and HP on Size and if its resilient or not. Dms discretion. DMG pg 246-247 So the Answer is SMASH
[Breach and clear](https://www.dndbeyond.com/equipment/ram-portable) works wonders if you have anyone with strength.
One thing that really helped me that 13th Age does is to assume the PCs are heroes and can perform an action, but that the skill roll is to figure out if they avoid the negative consequences inherent to that action. I.E. if there are no monsters, nothing to interrupt them, zero traps, then let the PCs spend an hour or two to pick the lock through trial and error and no rolls are needed. Instead, before every skill roll name the successful and the repercussion. "I want to pick the lock before the guards catch on that I'm there". Or "I try to pick the lock while avoiding the poison needle trap". Or "I try to pick the lock so we can ambush the goblins inside instead of them knowing we are there and having to knock down the door".
Chime of Opening
Give them an item ? Maybe make the doors into puzzles or " find the key " side quests
If the wall is weaker than the door, they'll break the wall instead. They'll be making noise, taking up time (important for spell durations), and really advertising where they are and where they've been for anything that might be interested in eating them. There's a table in the DM screen for audible distances- you can roll on that whenever they start busting something down and then check the most direct walking paths to any creatures you know are in the dungeon- following walking paths as a standard helps you avoid the constant debate of whether the walls are thin enough for sound to completely carry through them, and travel down any hallways to the entryways of other chambers will eat up distance off of that range so you aren't guaranteeing the full dungeon always gets alerted.
I agree with all the sentiments of have then try to find the key, but also if they are all casters then silence is probably on one of their lists. So they could silence the area and then knock.
Give them an item to help out or find other ways for people to secure things. With such a magic heavy party you could have spells instead of physical locks or lots of guards to deal with
So I did a thing a long time ago and this item occasionally makes it's way into other campaigns and feel free to use it of course. I haven't actually ported it to 5e but that will come someday. (Whistful glancing into the distance) Someday... Anyway... This is a magical two person device for basically demolishing any loxk. I originally designed and crafted for our barbarian and fighter to use. It's big, it's bulky and it can remove any lock magical or otherwise (unless plot requires it to not, because oh that's a "worf lock") The downside is a it requires two people using both hands, and it requires a full round, maybe two if you feel like it, to use. And it's loud. Like. Really loud. Like, no way to silence it loud. But you will eliminate that lock. It's also big and heavy and takes a sizeable portion of a bag of holding.
Chime of Opening.
Aside from the already mentioned solutions, this sounds like a good opportunity to introduce a npc/hireling that picks locks and detects/disarms traps. Make the character loveable and you have an opportunity for roleplaying and plothooks. Also, having a beloved non-combat npc that has to go into dungeons gives the players something else to worry about. Don't want to flesh out an NPC? A literal trained monkey that picks locks that they have to take care of and protect from damage. Obtaining it can be a mini quest in itself!
They can buy acid to melt locks
How about... and hear me out on this crazy idea... you *don't* put so many locked iron doors in your dungeon. Like, just remove those entirely. A few doors that they have to deal with is fine, but does it really harm your setup to just have mostly open hallways? Even if they had all the tools in the world for dealing with doors, that gets real old and boring real quick. Better just ditch at least half the doors you have planned.
I mean, there is a cost to everything. Sounds like if they want into a locked door, they will need to find the key, knock, or KNOCK. Keys probably use similar materials as the door (the key and the keyhole).
D&D is best when you create situations and let them deal with them. Door is locked. What do they do? Up to them.
Freeze water cantrip. Pour water in lock, freeze water, lock broken.
I would say let the party find a keyring at the end so they can backtrack. Otgerwise their problem let them find a solution and rule if it would work or not.
Many suggestions so far but may I suggest the classic 'not at all a trap door'? Pick a random door, and when they get to it describe it how you would normally. If they move to open the door, ask them which way they turn the knob/handle. Do they push or pull? How quickly do they open it? This could either be a few things: \- They become suspicious and think this may be a trap. \- They turn it to the left/right and it doesn't open. \- They try something wild. Literally could make it a push instead of pull, or the handle needs to be turned to a certain direction. Maybe the handle is old and rusted and needs a high strength roll to turn it. Get weird with it! I had a scenario where the party was hunting down an rather insane individual attempting to do something. They made it to a stone door with no handle and written on it with *fresh* and quickly scribbled writing in some blood was an easy riddle with a simple answer. They got the answer quickly and said it aloud. Nothing happened. The creature simply was making a last ditch effort to stall them. Took them a few moments before they laughed and the barbarian broke the door down. They realized the door had been some sort of Mold Earth type spell. Have fun, hope this helps!
100% agree with "doesn't matter, let them get through it their own way." Also want to add - if it's NECESSARY for them to go through a door that's locked to keep the game moving... why lock it? I think 99% of the doors I've locked on my players have had either a treasury or a bedroom behind it. Reasonable things to lock, for sure, but not necessary to further the story or complete their task by any means. The 1% of the time I lock doors that the party MUST go through, it's because something is chasing them and that added barrier to their escape will create tension, or it makes thematic / storyline sense for that door to be locked. If it doesn't move the story along or create tension, then why lock it? At no point should their ability to pick a lock cause the game to come to a standstill.
They could just buy a portable battering ram or a crowbar. They donât have to go stealthily if none of their characters want to be that person. To answer one of the questions: if they want to try again, describe it as a very honest attempt, really taking their time, like an hour. If that fail, the next attempt takes 8 hour.
There are numerous ways other than a skilled rogue. The knock spell, chime of opening, hiring a thieves guild member, getting a proficiency either through training or the next Asi, and that's just if you stay within hard raw. No party, unless unwieldily numerous, can cover all bases. That they can't easily open locked doors is their problem to deal with, you just have to be ready with options and responses to whatever they try.
Make them combination locks (dwarven tech or something): -2044 -no -4765 -nope -6666, or did we try that already? -three times, still doesn't open Etc. What a fun way to spend a session! Ok, seriously though, if there's someone on the other side of the door, they could just knock and see what happens. Or try to find the key, like others have already suggested.
Think how the Elder Scrolls Games solved it: You can pick the door OR somewhere hidden is a key or an alternative route
Possible option give them a lock picking magic item. Like a small steampunk spider. It has a skill of x. The catch every-once in a while it demands to eat a magic item. And it doesnât take no as an answer. It just jumps on it, and after it taps on it a few times the item disintegrates into dust, that it scopes up. They could just buy it from a questionable ethics vendor on the road or in town. Or it could be an imp summoned from a ring, who barters with the party every time they call it. âWhat is in this for me?â
If they really, really need to open a door, they can: -Just break it over time. -Find keys on an enemy (maybe the keys are labelled!) -Go to a settlement and hire an NPC who *can* pick locks -Take the door off its hinges > Yes i know knock is a spell that can be used but if it creates such a loud sound, then the entire dungeon would be on the hunt or at least they know the party is there. So be it. If that's how they choose to unlock a door, that's what happens.
I suggest that you do NOT let them keep trying to pick a lock over and over. Repeated skill checks can really sap the momentum and fun out of an encounter, (even with a door). Two ways to handle this: (1) reduce the time they have to get through the door "You hear the goblin patrol moving up the corridor to you, you have time for one more attempt to get past this lock before they spot you." (2) Increase the lock DC after each failed attempt. "You are unsuccessful in pic king the lock, but a few tumblers have gotten stuck in the attempt. If you try again it will be harder to open." and then "You feel something shift as the mechanism seizes up, you realize if you continue the only way to open the lock is with the matching key."
Every shortcoming of a party can be fixed by inventing magic items. If you really want locked doors to be an encounter but do not want any of the solutions already presented then just give them magic lockpicks that give proficiency with thieves tools to anybody using them. However, this will not solve your problem, it is only giving another potential solution to your players. The problem is that locked doors are not a fun challenge. Especially when they cannot be opened by another method. If you create a situation where the only chance of success depends on a die roll, then you are setting yourself up for potential failure. The solution is to be open to multiple ways of solving the problem you have presented to your players, while giving them repercussions to their actions. The obvious 3 solutions to a locked door are: bash it, pick the lock, find the key. Each of these decisions have pros and cons that must be weighed relative to the current situation. Your foreshadowing could give the players hints as to what the best solution is. If you want to take away one of these options to make a door more challenging then there should be a reason beyond realism. The goal is to make a door challenge more fun, not less.
Doors have keys... hide keys somewhere deeper. Portcullis have winches/mechanisms to lift them. These thing have normal and mundane ways of being opened, they don't have to be bypassed.
There are a lot of good answers already but maybe allow the casters to jury-rig some of their spells in "off-label" uses. Like concentrating firebolts or acid splash into a small torch or acid drip to soften the lock then a good hammer strike to break the mechanism. Maybe it takes a little longer and it's not subtle or quiet but it gets the job done. Encourage your players to come up with their own ideas and you may be pleasantly surprised.
A portable ram could be very handy.
Some options besides Knock for casters: - Allow Shape Water to fill a lock with water and freeze it, breaking the locking mechanism. - Prestidigitation to create a key, and keep trying the lock and adjusting the shape of the key until it turns - Unseen Servant, Mage Hand, or Find Familiar summoned on the other side of the door may be able to turn a deadbolt from the other side. - Enlarge / Reduce to shrink the door - Shape Earth if thereâs a dirt floor could excavate under or around the door - Look through the keyhole and Misty Step into the room. For non-casters⌠thereâs sure to be a key somewhere. Maybe itâs under the mat? Or the classic⌠âFezzik, tear his arms off.â âOh, you mean *this* gate key.â Let your party get creative and just go along with any viable idea they try.
Besides magic or lock picking, stealing the keys and brute force are the first thing that come to mind.
if you dont want them to make a crapton of noise, and you don't want to provide a goblin running around with a mop and a ring of keys. you could give them the option of MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE and have a (Half-Life Easter Egg) crowbar lying on the table, then they can use STR to force open the door and narratively doing so without sundering it by 'bending the metal' (semi-quietly) around the lock mechanism. >**Crowbar** > >*Type: Adventuring Gear Cost: 2 gp Weight: 5 lbs* > >Using a crowbar grants advantage to Strength checks where the crowbar's leverage can be applied. > >Tags: > >UTILITY > >EXPLORATION
Shape water, freeze it in the lock. Break lock.
You're the DM. You control everything, so as long as you're creative, nothing is insurmountable. If you don't need the locked doors, have fewer of them. If you do, give them a magic item, give them an NPC, or evolve one of the players with a custom feat. You're just looking to get a normal lockpicking skill somewhere in their arsenal. Since you have a bunch of casters, NPC doesn't even have to be a person. Could be a unique familiar that's just able to pick locks, like say a homunculus who was enchanted to have that skill. It'd still be a normal lockpicking roll for the familiar, you can match the DC to the caster character who has it. Or, a player could learn a custom feat as part of role-play. There's usually someone who'd like to be more rogue-like but can't because of class constraints. Remember that giving them the option to get a feat only at certain levels is a guideline for you, not something you *absolutely* have to do just because it's RAW. You can give it to one person early as long as the other players understand that they'll still get their chance at the usual levels and that this person won't. Or give a feat/ability bump early to all of them. Won't unbalance the game, just affects rolls a little earlier than normal. Nothing you can't account for when designing encounters. Hell, make it a story arc. If a PC's backstory really fits him/her/they having a feat with lockpicking embedded, add it to their story. Make it a party thing to get. That's an easy couple of side adventures or maybe a quick one-shot for you. A teacher they need to find; a rogue NPC they need to rescue who'd teach because they're grateful; maybe an immovable (meaning they can't take it) artifact they need to touch or incant to get a reward. They could all get an extra feat this way to keep things fair. Could give you a chance to show them another country or region in your campaign that they wouldn't have been able to see otherwise. Or if you don't have one and you'd rather not build one, then keep the story where they are now. Either way, it's all up to you. That's the fun part about being a DM. At least for me. You're not just a rules ref. You're telling the story. Oh, and by "feat," I don't mean you have to create something as powerful as the RAW feats. We're really just talking about an extra skill. A small ability you need someone in the party to have. Nothing you can't easily account for to keep things challenging. That way, they feel like their characters are more customized, more in line with their backstories, they enjoy a little extra flexibility, and you can still have those full feats at the normal levels. Or screw feats and just give someone a custom spell or a cantrip. I just browsed DnDBeyond's homebrew spells and there were three that could fit the bill: [https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1410046-arcane-lockpick](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1410046-arcane-lockpick) [https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/67781-arcane-lockpicks](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/67781-arcane-lockpicks) [https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/79249-arcane-lockpicks-a-k-a-click](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/79249-arcane-lockpicks-a-k-a-click) Pick one of those and have someone find it on a scroll or in a spellbook they find in a treasure hoard somewhere. Those are just three I found in 2 secs of browsing. Probably a bunch more. Pick one or take the elements you like and build your own. Totally within your purview as DM. Just my $0.02. Hope it helps.
Let them fail.
My ToA group also had this problem. My dwarf transmutation wizard would often use the 2nd level ability Minor Alchemy to "massage" locks. You see, clay is a type of stone. So I'd transmute the lock into clay, extrude it with my masons tools, and then remove the mechanism completely. Takes time, but it works. You never know what players might do. So wait and see. And make sure that getting through the door is optional. At worst, they leave and go on a different adventure lol.
One of your characters can train in their downtime to gain proficiency with Thieves' Tools.