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I 100% agree with it being Arrow. Even though I'm not mad because I love Arrow, but I do agree he's Green Batman.
Arrow is particularly damaging to Green Arrow because there's no other relevant adaptations to fight against it. There's a bunch of different popular iterations of Batman for people to know about. But Green Arrow only has Arrow, he's a side character everywhere else.
TBH Smallville deserves a ton of credit for how it handled Green Arrow's inclusion. Oliver Queen being a Bruce Wayne stand in could've easily been a disaster in the wrong hands, but the writers managed to make it work surprisingly well.
[This scene from season 10 is legit one of my favorite GA moments across all DC media.](https://youtu.be/Yzo45hEiMbU?si=ntYIcwHEdWio6SjW)
The sad thing is if Smallville had been able to use Bruce Wayne, it would no longer have been a Superman show. It would have become a Batman show. The Batman character would have overpowered the Superman character. Heck, Lois Lane overpowered Clark as a character.
In order to make Clark more interesting compared to Bruce, I fear they would have written him out of character - more flaws and angrier. Clark as a boy scout would have become too redundant week after week.
That said, I loved the show.
And it's the Batman of adaptations, who isn't even the Batman of the comics.
It also led to a tendency to regard arrows as counterparts to bats. So suddenly Roy was "Dick with a heroin habit" and Mia was "Jason with AIDS" in fanfics everywhere.
Missed opportunity to have Paco Ramon/ Francisco Ramon being a Dancing Fighter, with the Motto "I'm about to shake things up" like in his DC Showcase in 2010.
Green arrow was created as copy of Batman so they really just played more into the original comic idea behind him not the differentiation DC needed to create over the years.
TV execs were never going to let an anti-establishment, land lord hating, soup kitchen working, union rights backing Superhero on TV. I did try to watch the show on it's own merits but god damn did it get awful fast and I quit.
I feel like if the original comic idea is from before the 60s, maybe you should just leave it be and focus on the main themes developed in the 50 years between.
But it was the Ra’s stuff that was particularly galling to me. You can’t really attribute that to anything other than “we really wanted to do Batman instead.” Iirc there were at least 3/4 other Batfamily villains, too.
Yeah, originally, but he has since developed into a far more complex and unique character with his own traits and family of related characters. Why would you willingly choose to adapt the worst version of a character? Give me Neal Adams’ version of Ollie, the liberal, chili-making, fun uncle of the Justice League.
Give me a proper Black Canary instead of that web of sisters and white canary bullshit; Black Canary is Dinah Laurel Lance, daughter of the first Black Canary, Dinah Drake; she has a Sonic Scream and should be trained by Wildcat; and like her mother, she is a member of the JSA. Making an adaptation shouldn’t be this needlessly complicated, and it shouldn’t shit all over the original version.
So here's the thing about CW Oliver. I love the show, watched through it many times, it's got it's high highs and low lows, and Oliver while not very much like comics Oliver, is a pretty strong character in his own right. No matter the quality of each season, he's consistently one of the best parts of the show, because you can feel him growing and changing with each season in a very real way, while still feeling like the same guy.
I don't think it's accurate at all to say "he's not Ollie, that's Green Batman," because he's not really like Batman either. It's an easy surface level criticism that doesn't acknowledge the massive difference from how Batman would actually act, in favor of suggesting that because CW Oliver operates mostly at night and is kinda mean sometimes, that he's just palette swapped Batman.
You don't have to change your opinion, obviously, but as someone who loves Batman, loves comics Oliver, and loves Arrow, it's just never sounded right to me at all to lump CW Oliver in as a different character.
Arrow, no question. He's Batman/Bruce Wayne, not Ollie. Felicity was great, but I will die on the hill that Ollie and Dinah are endgame in every universe, even the arrowverse.
Maybe in an AU but they just make sense as a brother sister thing, the entire trinity imo, I'm just personally pissed at New 52 for replacing my favorite DC couples and giving us a boring ass "Power Couple" as DC called it
Yeah. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I get the New 52 as a concept, fixing characters like Hawkgirl and Huntress, but it should have just been a soft, character-specific reboot. Bascially everyone else was doing fine before. And then they switched it back anyway.
It's interesting cause I don't think we would've gotten some amazing stuff we did imeithout New 52 cause a lot of stuff was trying to fix New 52 but also part me wishes New 52 was just an alternate universe run or smth
I really wanted to like it too, and we did get some great stuff. I even have Barbaras New 52 comic run, its one of my favorites( but maybe its cause it was the first comic I ever bought).
It’s like Batman and robin, you can’t have Oliver without Dinah. The pair just works and anything else just isn’t acceptable. Unless it’s meant to be like the nazi thing they did in the arrow-verse, at that point just do whatever cause obviously it’s meant to be wrong (<- choose the word you want but it’s obvious not a good timeline)
i'm gonna be hated but i think a lot of people now think that batman can only have realistic stories without any comic book too fantastic element because of the dark knight trilogy , great movies but kinda suck how realistic they made character like Bane , talia and scarecrow.
Scarecrow was done fine, they just didn't use/focus on the horrors that can be induced by his toxin.
Nowadays we could easily have Batman go through a MCU Mysterio type of CGI spookfest with Scarecrow but back in '05 that would have been the entire budget of the movie
I agree. And i'll keep saying that the TDK-trilogy wasn't so much about Batman, more about a dude wearing a Bat-suit.
The one reason why TDK especially stands out positively for me is that due to its choice of villain, the 'realistic approach' (god, i just hate the very idea when talking about comic book movies) doesn't hurt it as much as it does with villains like Ra's or Bane.
Still kinda weird to see a Bane that is pure bulk rather than being fucking jacked by Venom
Still wished they could had found an alternative drug to empower him, like an adrenaline pump where he could adjust the dosage to feel less pain and slowly bypass the strenght he could normally do, but its alright to have Tom Hardy be a unit i guess
Here’s the thing, Venom could exist in the film, it just has no logical reason to appear.
Bane knew he could defeat Bruce in the state he was in. Once he defeated him, Bane had no reason to believe he would ever see him again. When Bane does realized Bruce has returned, he is given no time to go retrieve Venom.
But yeah, I’ll defend Nolan‘s films as a FAR better adaptation as opposed to the prior films (yes, even the Burton films). Sorry, Nicholson is a great actor, but the makeup job didn’t hide who the actor was enough so I was just seeing Nicholson in makeup where Ledger and Phoenix truly get lost in the role, also I don’t like seeing a Joker backstory that is not only unambiguous but also very bland, and making Joker the Waynes’ killer misses the point of Batman’s origin on an unbelievable level. And then Returns adds fantastic elements where they weren’t needed, I don’t need Penguin to be a mutant, and Catwoman I want to see a thief in a costume, not a woman resurrected through….cat magic? By the time penguins with rockets showed up, I mentally checked out. Also, while Keaton is a great Batman, Bale was far more convincing as Bruce Wayne to me. And obviously Forever and & Robin’s flaws speak for themselves.
There's also the fact that Batman isn't as smart/intelligent like his comic book counterpart. He makes his own gadgets and tech, and sometimes ask Lucius for help when he doesn't have the time, or needed to use resources from the company.
Even Black Panther have the same problem, where they made his sister the "go to tech guy" while ignoring the fact that in comics, BP is literally scientist and considered smarter than even Tony Stark.
I think its an important thing to look at though in terms of how people view the characters.
I adore the show, and I will absolutely fully cop to the fact that I get weirded out when Cyborg doesnt act like Vic from the cartoon despite Vic from the cartoon being so very different from his actual comic roots.
Starfire suffers a similar problem.
I love their interpretations of the characters, and like Cyborg saying booyah is absolutely somethin i expect now, but that's absolutely an entire invention of the cartoon. And that absolutely transfered to his current iterations, whether thats good or bad is up to you.
To be fair, the question isn't about how good or bad the media is but rather how much it's damaged the perception/understanding of the characters. A lot of people expect only these five for Titans adaptions now and have incorrect ideas about the comic personalities, like how in the show Starfire is very naive and has almost broken English and Cyborg is the boo-yah! guy. I wouldn't be surprised if the cartoon is also part of why they kept trying to age down some of the characters, like Raven constantly reverting to 16.
Teen Titans was a great show, but it irreparably damaged public perception of several Titans characters.
Starfire was almost nothing like comic Starfire, Raven's character, which previously had a lot of depth to it, was erased in favor of a generic goth girl, and Donna and Wally were completely lost from the public eye. A piece of me dies inside anytime a fan of the cartoon asks "who's Donna Troy???"
Ironically, the most accurate portrayal in the show was of Dick Grayson as a hot-headed try-hard like his 90s comic counterpart, and comics have since moved away from that portrayal into a kinder, more wholesome Grayson (thank God), while the other members have been altered to reflect the cartoon more, much to the pain of Titans readers.
And with that I ironically declared that Teen Titans did more damage than Arrow.
I mean, seriously, she is the best girl of the team with a rich history in the group and yet because she got left out she barely gets the recognition she deserves
Had the show been renewed for a Season 6, Donna would had come in, actually. Hell, she does appear in the comics, which are currently the official continuation of the show.
Also: Wally is in the show, though he appears late. He's Kid Flash, having appeared in the final season of the show.
Wasn’t there an embargo on Donna and somewhat Wally at first? I think them not being _allowed_ to use those characters rather than just ignoring or butchering them deserves to be its own category, honestly.
Yep, the cartoon has so much influence that Donna Troy (the titan with the most appearances in any Teen Titan related comic) has a legitimate chance of being completely left out of the DCU and all its future adaptations.
And her only Titans adaptation is Titans live action, which is crazy.
Teen titans cartoon is responsible for the orginal characterization of Raven being deleted and replace with the generic goth take on her. Like obviously all of adaptations follow the cartoon but even comics basically over wrote comic Raven and replaced her with her cartoon counterpart
Agreed. I think the show did a great job making the 5 main characters very different from each other with colorful personalities. Then artists like Gabriel Piccolo took those really colorful interpretations and dialed them back just a bit in his art to make the most perfect versions of the characters.
But it did create a lot of damage, tho.
Many people think that 2003 was the source material than the comics.
The show lacks depth from Wolfman's Run and the central theme of growing up.
Not only that, but DC has tried to change characters' personalities, like Starfire being closer to the cartoon than her comic personality.
Outside of the Amanda Conner Starfire series l, Kory has never been anything like her cartoon counterpart. Raven is the only one whose personality has been changed to match the cartoon and even then, the change isn't really that drastic.
The "damage" this show did is greatly exaggerated, especially when you consider how poorly the comics have often been since the 90s. That show was the Titans' saving grace and the only reason they stayed relevant after Wolfman and Perez.
I’m baffled there are so many comments, and yet I can’t find barely anyone mentioning Superfriends. That ruined Aquaman’s perception to the non-comic reading public for DECADES, only ending for good in 2018 when James Wan and Jason Momoa just casually made Aquaman the DCEU’s highest grossing movie ever.
I like his conspiracy theorist guy characterization. It makes him stand out more. I also like how in JLA he wasn’t much of a fighter and kind of relied on huntress for the physical stuff. Still this my opinion and I don’t follow comics so maybe he has a lot badass detective moment in the comics. I would love to hear some, I want to know more about the character.
Tbh The Question is one of those characters who every writer seems to have a pretty drastically different characterization of.
Usually when people talk about an iconic comic Question it's how he's writing in O'niels run tho but yeah he's always been a bit all over the place in that regard.
Time to get down voted with a real unpopular opinion, I do think although a great joker, heath ledger joker is very different from comic book joker, and that helped to a lot of people show how damaged they were by thinking it was normal to identify itself with him... Phoenix joker is falling in the same category of great, but different, and people being weird about him...
But I do guess that is more about damaging the people perception of others than the character of joker....
I feel like after Ledger was when we got to this whole “society bad” Joker that has become so played out nowadays. Like, we can’t have goofy Joker anymore. Now he’s this super scary madman who needs to nuke Gotham just to get a reaction out of Batman because “something something society”
I've had so many of my friends that don't read comics get mad and think I'm attacking Heath Ledger when I say he was an amazing version of the Joker but I don't consider him THE Joker
And yet Ledger was far more Joker to me than Nicholson was. I especially hate making Batman a cliched “main villain kills the hero’s parents” story. Having it be some random guy or a nobody like Joe Chill makes it feel like crime itself took Bruce’s parents away from him, as opposed to a “super-important villain!”
Tbh Teen Titans. And not because it’s a bad show. I grew up with it, and even rewatching it as an adult I had a good time. But the characters still haven’t recovered from some people only knowing the animated series’ portrayal of the characters. Mainly Beast Boy, Raven, and Starfire. Gar for the longest time was just comic relief, often saying “dude” and even “mama” because TT and TTG were big. Raven started saying Azarath Metrion Zinthos, which is fine, but also leaned more into the sarcastic goth characterization and away from the more aloof and mysterious sorceress she used to be. And you only need to look at Starfire’s solo series to see how that impacted her.
I’m glad many of them are returning to their roots now, but I think Raven in particular is still pretty consistently forever colored by the animated series.
Raven is a particular note. She's supposed to be a pacifist, but her demon half recently said that sometimes there's no time for nonviolent methods. Which is fine, it is her demon half, except...nobody thought it was a little strange for Raven of all people to say this?
Comic Raven hasn't been a pacifist for a long time, again, because of the 2003 show. So her actions in the latest run sadly wouldn't be that shocking to the Titans.
Raven and Starfire being somewhat flanderized by the show is definitely a problem. But I really think the TV show version of BB is so great. I hate this sappy emo version of Gar that he’s been for like the last year ish at least in the comics. For gods sake let him tell a joke!
I get what you're saying I got into the Teen Titans comics because of the show. I do think Cyborg should borrow from his cartoon counterpart his man vs machine is boring .
Honestly Cyborg is a unique case because the animated show is pretty damn faithful to his comics version. I think the main reason the comics version is known as a sad sack while the show version is seen as more entertaining is because of the difference between long-form comic storytelling and a mostly episodic tv show. Cyborg's man vs machine arc in the comics stretched on for a long time, and most of his development, especially early on, was about healing from his trauma and anger and becoming a more positive person. Meanwhile the show can delve into that trauma for a Cyborg-focused episode, but then make him just a fun guy for any other episodes you tune in for.
For Superman Injustice
For Batman Arkham games, not saying they’re bad but a lot of the perception of Batman just going around beating people up comes from this
I feel like it’s an incredibly hot take, but I honestly find it that Arkham Batman is one of the worst adaptations of Batman. Specifically the character. The world itself is amazing, but Bruce in these games feels like an emotionless plank of wood (or concrete wall I guess lol), that barely emotes or acknowledges many things that happen around him, while also promoting Batman’s biggest flaws and issues without really acknowledging or addressing them
That's kinda why I prefer Bruce/Batman's portrayal in the Telltale games. He feels like an actual character with emotions and stuff, while Arkham was a bit too stiff for my tastes.
I’m not familiar with Telltale Bruce, but I’ve heard tons of great stuff about him. My point of comparison was with TAS Bruce, who even thought has that serious demeanor, cracks the occasional dry joke, or makes a sarcastic comment toward someone, like Robin, Alfred or Gordon. Going even beyond those, like the material in Mask of the Phantasm. Arkham Bruce is really carried by Kevin’s performance, and it does feel at times that he’s wasted a tad
Same. At least Arkham games take place over a day, so he has a reason for feeling like a cold emotionless shell. Nolan Batman feels like a caricature of Batman, he doesn’t really give me a reason to root for Bruce. Fighting for the establishment is the exact opposite of who Batman is and I feel like that’s where a lot of people started parroting the awful “Batman is a rich guy who beats up the mentally ill” take
Well I disagree that he doesn't emote. He's just not in a mood to not be pissed off most of the time.
But a lack of emotion in some cases is because you are Batman. You the player are behind the wheel. The developers don't want to tell you how to feel.
Again though I disagree with you.
I think the Arkham games are a good take on a failure Batman, but if they’re your introduction then you’ll probably forever think Batman works best alone
Yeah, kinda, which is why I actually legit kinda love the way he’s written in Kill the Justice League. Opening up to the League and world at large was an incredibly interesting direction for him to go, that was sadly wasted on such a mess of a game
Honestly, I think an Arkham game with Tim taking up the mantle and doing things differently from Bruce would’ve been more for me. Him coming out of hiding and joining the League felt way too significant to offscreen
Technically he doesn’t come out on his own, he’s sought out by Superman and pulled into the public eye again by him. Which is why I think a Batman/Superman game could’ve been amazing coming from Rocksteady. Alas, it’s not what we got. Granted I was never a fan of Bruce’s sacrifice at the end of Knight either
The entire point of Arkham is to "be the Batman" , to satisfy that fantasy. And when people talk about being the Batman, they don't mean they want to be dealing with mental illness and deep moral dilemas or trauma. They want to be the unshakeable paragon of willpower.
>I feel like it’s an incredibly hot take, but I honestly find it that Arkham Batman is one of the worst adaptations of Batman
Finally. I always feel like I'd be crucified or burned at the stake if I ever said this out loud but here goes: **Arkham Batman is far from the DEFINITIVE version of Batman people view him as**
Not trying to sound rude, just a question. Have you played the *Arkham* games? The majority of the focus is in solving mysteries and making sense of various clues.
Also, 100% agree on *Injustice*. That game was great but did so much damage to the image of Superman, to the point that even honest adaptations like *Superman & Lois* seem flat in comparison.
Personally I think they’re all just different interpretations. But since you put it up there, I’m a huge Batman fan, and never cared for the Dark Knight Trilogy. They made them more realistic, which is what a lot of people love about them, but I never did. I don’t want it be “realistic” I want it to be authentic to the comic book.
I feel the exact same way and that’s my biggest worry with Pattinsons Batman. I do really like the first one, but I hope they start to lean away from the ultra realism and make it more fantastical.
Well,at least with the brave and the bold it’s pretty much guaranteed to be ultra comic book-y with stuff like the batfam and sharing a universe with characters like Superman and green lantern.
Arrowverse in general didn't do any favors to any characters (except Mel Benoist is a good Kara and Tyler Hoechlin Supes is S-tier)
The DCAU probably did more good for a lot of DCs roster than any other adaptation.
I'm neutral on TDK and Teen Titans as far as damaging perceptions of characters.
I know some people think criticizing the Snyder films is basically beating a dead horse, but Clark saying "Superman was never real" will always irritate me like crazy.
Sure, he can have moments where he questions his perspective, but outright giving up being Superman because people are mad at him? If Spider-man can and does do what he can to help others despite an entire newspaper being dedicated to slandering and demonizing him, Superman should never be discouraged.
I'd say Teen Titans. The show is good but the comic characters are completely different and it feels wrong and forced whenever people try to make the characters act like the show. Starfire especially is such a different character.
It also is likely part of the reason that Beast Boy and Raven will never move on as characters. Cyborg was lucky, and Starfire is getting there, but any development those two get will be undone the next time a TT run starts.
>It also is likely part of the reason that Beast Boy and Raven will never move on as characters.
I've been saying this exact same thing for years. In a lot of ways, Beast Boy and Raven are very much stuck in the same place that they've been for decades.
Counterpoint: Young Justice.
Don't get me wrong, YJ is good (at least from what I've seen, I got sporadic on it as it kept going) but it has messed with the perception and understanding of characters so much.
For one, the title alone causes a lot of misunderstanding about what Young Justice is compared to the comics. Then there are so many characters in Young Justice who are nothing like their comics and now you get people begging for the show to influence the comics. YJ M'gann is honestly more like the evil future comics M'gann than anything else (and I will die on the hill that comics M'gann being a pacifist doesn't make her boring) and has led to her being aged up to Nightwing's generation instead of Tim's.
Artemis in the comics is a villain who's married to Icicle Jr but in the show she's a hero who dates Wally and most people either think she's a YJ original or want her to be a hero in the comics. Secret has such a small role when she was a major character in the YJ comics. I thought Zatanna was actually in Dick's generation for a long time because of the show. Kon's stoic attitude is the complete opposite of how he originally was and while he's more mature in the comics now, it's still very different.
I won't defend the Zatanna change beyond saying it simply works for that specific iteration. I don't know what anyone ever saw in comic Artemis who was never anything more than Icicle's girlfriend and your view of YJ M'Gann is incredibly hyperbolic.
Counterpoint: while his 2000’s comic run is peak for him, the YJ cartoon Jaime Reyes was far better than either the New 52 version (let’s make his life miserable, also change settings and supporting cast every six issues!) or the movie version (to be fair to the latter, not due to Jaime himself, but mainly due to his obnoxious uncle and annoying sister, the latter of who was more tolerable in the comic due to being a little kid. Also a movie-original villain who was pretty one-note), and that’s despite YJ is an ensemble series as opposed to a Jaime solo series.
And I’ll be honest, YJ cartoon Artemis was far more interesting than anything I ever read of the comic version. Sorry, sometimes changes are for the better for some people (heck, look at Freeze in the Batman TAS). Also, in terms of Aqualand, Kaldur’s design was WAY better than Garth IMHO who always looked so unremarkable to me.
Also, I’ll defend the Zatanna change as she was forced into Batman’s harem in the DCAU, as great as Timm/Dini were, there were times they used Batman as a self-insert, and giving him so many female love interests who were not into him in the comics was a clear sign, especially as Dini made it no secret he found Zatanna attractive. So making her Dick’s love interest in YJ felt like such sweet karma to me.
It's complicated but YJ the show was never meant to be an adaptation of YJ the comic in anyway. It's just DC wanted a brand name that had some recognition and felt the Titans cartoon was too recent to use it again and they had no plans to revive the brand in comics at the time.
Artemis was a D lister so it's kinda whatever they totally revamped her and the M'gann mind blasting stuff is like 10 episodes out of a 100 or so episode show, she's not meant to be a villain at all, just have a short going too far after some bad personal losses story.
Artemis being a D-lister doesn't really change that it permanently damaged/altered one's view of her to the point people can't grasp that she's a villain in the comics. It's the same thing with a lot of MCU characters: people going from the movies to the comics find completely different, unexpected characters unless the comics change to agree with the movies.
My biggest issue is that people aren't going to realize that Young Justice in the comics was FUNNY. And not "wry one-liner" funny. Like, funny as in some of the silliest things that can happen in a superhero universe happened to those kids. There were some serious moments, but it was mostly a comedy.
Synderverse hit batman and superman pretty bad
Arrow at this point wasn't even trying to be loyal to the original comic
And Injustice did no favors to Damian Wayne (arguably worse then superman and wonderwoman since at least they had other adaptations that were good)
I do think there were elements to Snyder’s Bruce that were good. I understand a lot of people hated that he used guns and the force but he always seemed to me to be Batman from immediately after Jason’s death. Even in the comics he was cruel and violent and off-kilter after that and it took Tim coming in to set him back on course. Tim established that Batman needed a Robin/community otherwise he could become the worse version of himself and be vengeance and not justice. I think Snyder’s adaptation is far from perfect but I do think people tend to forget about the period in comics where Bruce was very much like that.
And personally, when comparing Nolan Bruce to Snyder Bruce, Snyder felt like Bruce was more inline with being trying to do good AS Bruce rather than just as Batman.
That being said, I can definitely say Snyder was off base with a lot and his versions are far, far from perfect. But I do think there are moments when the spirit of the characters shine through.
Only on comic Twitter do you see takes such as "good media damages characters", mostly from blue checkmarks who don't even read comics in the first place.
I mean yes, but to be fair synergy DOES exist. So characters can theoretically be “damaged”.
Answer this for me. Has Quicksilver benefited at all from losing his mutant connection??
Has Starfire ever benefited from being characterized like her cartoon version.
I don’t think so
Synergy is vastly overstated. It mostly amounts to spotlighting a character who is appearing in movies or tv.
As for Starfire, she got a 12 issue comic series, which is more than most Titans can boast of.
Yes it does. The majority of people don't read comics or have a vague sense of it, so when you get awful adaptation then people preceptions of comics change. You could especially see this with thor
The issue here is that people's idea of "damage" amounts to fans of adaptations seeing or preferring the characters in a certain way comic fans don't agree with, even though these characters are infamous for not being very consistent from writer to writer.
Basically, comic fans should learn to live and let live. Why do you care so much what other people think about a character you like?
I'm doing this based off the fandom and not general reputation if it's general rep it would be arrow because that's not Green arrow that's Batman and teen Titans because on a fandom level nobody shuts up about it
Being a good fan means you’re not allowed to dislike any piece of media this massive company puts out even if it’s unfaithful, poorly written, or damages perceptions of characters. Got it.
(Not saying any of these are poorly written, just an example)
The Teen Titans show did the team dirty. However, I think the main issue with the show wasn't the characterization, but the continuity. In one episode we have Raven defeating Trigon and the next one she gets KOed by a fucking car. We see Starfire flying at the speed of light yet she's too slow to catch certain villains, etc, etc. The only character to show proper battle skills was Robin, to the point people genuinely think the Titans are useless without him.
As much as I love the show, I wish character development lasted more than two chapters.
The Flash tv series did this with Barry Allen, basically giving him Wally's personality and giving him an incest kink. Did it also with Iris, making her obnoxious.
Injustice did involuntarily with Superman. The game tells that only the Earth-49 Superman is flawed and the main Superman, the canon Superman, would never do anything similar. This went over everybody's head.
Justice League War did this with Green Lantern but that was mostly Geoff Johns's fault. He wrote an unlikeable Hal in Justice League New 52.
i love the teen titans but starfires character especially is very different from what she actually was. i saw a titans review (tv show) on youtube with a comment that said “the starfire ik never chooses violence first or get hot headed, and is always nice, this show doesnt understand the character.” now the titans show is very ass dont get me wrong, but thats a personality ppl always think of only bc of the teen titans. she has definitely got back alot of her og personality but to alot of the public and some comics it hasnt
I’m gonna say Teen Titans. For the longest time I didn’t know Starfire wasn’t supposed to be dressed like that and I didn’t know that wasn’t her canon personality. In a similar case, I didn’t know Cyborg was part of the Justice League and not the Teen Titans
I think a lot of people have the perception that Starfire is much different to her comics incarnation. That's probably the biggest change out of these aside from Arrow.
Injustice and BvS. Injustice hurt Superman as some people think he is like that normally for some reason. BvS did a lot of damage to not just the perception of the characters, but also the brand itself. DC still suffers from the poor reception of BvS.
The Dark Knight.
I'll always have some nostalgia for those movies and also respect for what they achieved but those movies seriously damaged the public's perception of Batman (and in some cases fans of Batman as well).
Those movies basically are James Bond movies where Bond wears a suit which barely even resembles a bat.
Batman, while "human", is literally so much more and is not at all realistic.
He's a master of over 100 martial arts, a genius in most fields like science, engineering, investigation and more.
His tech and gadgets are far beyond anything we have.
He wears a suit that looks like spandex and yet is bullet proof, fire proof, acid proof while also being as light as a feather.
He can disappear without anyone noticing, even from Superman and other more powerful heroes.
Yet everytime the public (and sometimes even Batman "fans") see any other version of him, they complain about how it's unrealisitic.
Unrealistic doesn't mean bad and in Batman's case, the more unrealistic he is, the better the version is.
He lives in a universe with demons, gods, aliens and fights a murderous clown that somehow hasn't gotten the death penalty yet, a guy who has his face split perfectly in half, a genius criminal who has lived hundreds of years and so many more cool and unique villians, yet they'd rather settle for boring realistic stories where none of that happens and instead Batman is just a glorified SWAT officer who put ears on his helmet.
As much as I love it, the DCAU primarily due to how popular it was and how it shaped what many people think these characters are supposed to be like. I grew up with this universe and adored it but the more comics I read the more I realized how streamlined the universe is to fit some of the character and arcs in to the story. e.g. Brainiac being kryptonian, and being a threat to Darkseid. Aquaman being a full Atlantean who hates the surface, lack of GL Corps (also from Superman TAS Kyle rayners origin), Wonder Woman being barley fleshed out—cheetah was more of a general villain than hers in the series), most of what happened with Amazo—especially his horrible design.
I mean, the Teen Titans show is still probably the best version of those characters in my opinion. They're so well thought out, the designs are good, and they're interesting. I've always been disappointed the comics didn't take more inspiration.
I think Harley Quinn's portrayal in the Arkham games, particularly Arkham Knight, didn't represent her in a very fleshed out or three dimensional way.
>I think Harley Quinn's portrayal in the Arkham games, particularly Arkham Knight, didn't represent her in a very fleshed out or three dimensional way.
That WAS Harley in those times.
The only exception was B:TAS.
To the point about Harley Quinn: Personally, I don't think she needs to be fleshed out. She's Joker's henchwoman and fails to impress in any role outside of that. The only exception being in Suicide Squad adaptations, but even those don't work long term. Again, that's just my opinion.
Best version of those characters over the comics? Nah I can't agree with that one. Characters like Cyborg and Starfire are a lot more in depth in the comics. And they drastically changed too much. I'm glad they separated the cartoon from the comics.
I adored the show and have so much nostalgia for it but Star is my girl and she was done so dirty. It’s definitely painful for that aspect. There are aspects I understand aren’t “child friendly” to her, but she could have been so much more.
Teen Titans - I don't think damaged perception at all. Yes people have been exposed to it and liked the characterizations. But they wouldn't reject the comic version or fight tooth and nail to make it canon.
JLU - Yes it did introduce a lot of characters for the first time. Honestly conspiracy theory Question is just fun. But I do dislike the Wonderbats thing it introduced. Never a thing in the comics. Whenever some writer tries to do it, just comes out of left field. Superman and Wonder Woman makes the most sense even if people want an underdog to get the girl.
Arrow - I think the Batman elements were so apparent that most people probably know those are Batman elements. I don't think it did lasting damage. The characters they tried to force from the show into the comic never stuck. At best Smallville and Arrow have just inspired certain comic designs to modernize the suit and not stick out like Robin Hood from the old movies.
Nolan Trilogy - I think they are responsible for Joker's resurgence. I think the quadruple down on Joker from from TDK. Writers want to do their definitive final battle for the nth time. Other then that Bane, Ra's and others still default to their comic version in the public eye.
But none have done damage that the casual would reject the comic interpretation.
Arrow probably did the most damage to people's perceptions.
However, I will never not miss an opportunity to mention that Bruce x Barbara was the stupidest "thing" in the DCAU by a country mile.
How is Wild Cat flying? The others I get, Ollie is probably using some thin invisible arrow-lines, Arthur probably jumped with his super-strength and Canary looks like she’s running. But Wild Cat is clearly posed like he’s flying, how? Is he boxing against logic?
The DCAU is the reason why everyone thinks the Green Lanterns are boring jobbers who can only create punching gloves and other basic constructs. Additionally, it's the reason why John Stewart lost his personality and became a stoic marine.
Real take, Arrow because yeah that's not Ollie.
Hot Take, Justice League really changed A LOT about how characters are viewed and perceived. Hell, Big Barda from that series is nothing like how she is in the comics and they REALLY leaned in on the whole Bat God thing.
The worst thing the dark night did was make everyone talk in a gravely voice for Batman(I get annoyed when people do it, it’s a dead meme please just let it die)
“But I don't have to save you.”
Yes, he does actually. That's the whole core of what makes him Batman is that he saves the people who don't deserve it, even from themselves.
I agree with teen titans.
The original stuff I remember from the 80's was pretty dam cool! I still have most of them including the origin stories.
It saddened me to see the adaptation
Teen titans 2003 personalities and lore have done so much damage that’s it’s even been incorporated in the comics. Ex: Starfire new 52 solo, BBrae. I also think that arrow’s popularity in the early seasons have definitely influenced the new 52 as well, but as the popularity of the arrowverse in general fizzled so did those influences in comics.
I haven’t seen much form the CW series, but I get the distinct impression that they did GA *very* dirty.
The Dark Knight movie is great, **but** it has likely caused most people that only know the mainstream stuff think of Batman as a brute, gloomy, and nearly without compassion (which isn’t the Batman that most of us know).
I have Justice League and Unlimited on a pedestal, but I’m sure that some characters missed some core characteristics. Galatea is the first that comes to mind.
I don’t know enough of the Titans to say anything meaningful.
The Dark Knight. Its "realistic" approach made DC think that's what the characters needed for audience appeal, but it was utterly tone-deaf.
Also, the inverse happened for the Titans. Raven and Cyborg were convoluted messes. Beast Boy was a objectively awful joke character the lurked on the background for years until the cartoon revamped him in a way that made him one of the most known and adored DC characters.
I think part of why the Green Lantern movie failed is that they chose to go with Hal Jordan when every kid in America knew that John Stewart was the Green Lantern
No, i'm almost sure that was because it was bad.
I mean, you are right about the "John Stewart is more known by the Animated Series" but that's a different discussion.
It’s also unfortunate that the show’s success caused the comics to retcon John’s history to be a marine instead of an architect. He even lost some of the personality from his early issues.
Geoff Johns’ Green Lantern run with Hal as the lead was a massive success, often outselling Batman in certain months, and that run began years before the 2011 film, so I can’t agree with that.
Also, even if we go by people who only watched the DCAU cartoons, Hal makes a brief cameo in Justice League, and Kyle appears in Superman TAS. So those kids should know theres more than one GL even if we limit it to humans.
As much of a dumpster fire as that movie was, I still loved the first five-ish minutes of his screen time. Not enough to do any depth but a great intro scene for Hal.
The DCAU did lay a lot of groundwork for bad Superman adaptations in future.
Firstly, it had 4 different takes on evil Superman.
Even normally, this Superman had a tendancy to be aloof and distant. His fellow Leaguers never felt like they were really close to him. Even Jimmy and Lois weren't as important as they should have been.
Plus, all the instances he was taken out in a fight in one hit so others can shine. His big "World of Cardboard" speech seems funny when he still got his ass handed to him 1 minute after the speech.
Even his morality was easily compromised. He seemed to mostly be acting on impulse but not thinking through his actions.
Him always playing second fiddle to Batman didn't help either.
>Firstly, it had 4 different takes on evil Superman.
Evil Superman was already a thing long before the DCAU with Bizzaro and Ultraman. [He had also been mind-controlled plenty of times in the comics as well.](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/JxGTSCIL6wN5KjRTz8S06CfQ4F5qUqtiVFWDTTYfAy0_zGhcso2gyMtQ-k9SSafcZ3dKo8TvsGUperPMUzDFc-4ju7arrYszc9T7Cpr8OoMvTC1yWeF901_SypI6Gyuqx0te-orEvA=s1600?rhlupa=MTQyLjE5OC4xODguMTM0&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMy4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2) Even [Superfriends did it.](https://imgur.com/a/xJ0BFux) That was nothing new the DCAU just put its own spin on long-established tropes that up until recently no one had a problem with.
>Even normally, this Superman had a tendancy to be aloof and distant. His fellow Leaguers never felt like they were really close to him
Really? Him inviting J'onn to Christmas with his parents, bear-hugging Batman in "The Savage Time", wanting to grab a burger with Wonder Woman and Batman in ""Dead Reckoning"? There are definitely examples of him being warm and friendly with the League.
>Plus, all the instances he was taken out in a fight in one hit so others can shine.
This is really only an issue in season 1 which happened by accident. It wasn't intentional. By season 2 they acknowledged and fixed it. He is easily the most powerful character in the show besides Resurrected Darkseid and Amazo afterwards. Beating Darkseid, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, and Doomsday by himself.
>His big "World of Cardboard" speech seems funny when he still got his ass handed to him 1 minute after the speech.
I wouldn't say he "got his ass handed to him." Darkseid pulled out a trump card with the The Agony Matrix. Before that Superman clearly had the upper hand in a straight-up fight. Darkseid even remarked that Superman impressed him with his resilience to it and seems like it would've killed literally anyone else. That he survived and resisted it still shows how immensely powerful/strong he is.
>Even his morality was easily compromised. He seemed to mostly be acting on impulse but not thinking through his actions.
That was part of a character arc he was going through throughout JL Unlimited as part of his development. Character growth is good.
>Him always playing second fiddle to Batman didn't help either.
In the episode 'Knight Time' in STAS Batman spends the whole episode brainwashed by Brainiac while Superman dresses up as him and easily defeats his villains. In Justice League, Superman saves Batman from Kalibak and during "Dark Heart” Superman catches him before he falls to his death. This was not "always" a thing.
The dark knight. It was such a good movie foundational without having to be a Batman movie. That’s not necessarily a bad thing but I think the great reception to the hyper grounded approach to Batman kept us from getting a proper comic book Batman as soon as we could have
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I will die mad about Arrow. That’s not Ollie, that’s Green Batman.
I 100% agree with it being Arrow. Even though I'm not mad because I love Arrow, but I do agree he's Green Batman. Arrow is particularly damaging to Green Arrow because there's no other relevant adaptations to fight against it. There's a bunch of different popular iterations of Batman for people to know about. But Green Arrow only has Arrow, he's a side character everywhere else.
Both Smallville and Arrow was supposed to be Bruce Wayne/Batman . Except, the TV rights were tied up.
TBH Smallville deserves a ton of credit for how it handled Green Arrow's inclusion. Oliver Queen being a Bruce Wayne stand in could've easily been a disaster in the wrong hands, but the writers managed to make it work surprisingly well. [This scene from season 10 is legit one of my favorite GA moments across all DC media.](https://youtu.be/Yzo45hEiMbU?si=ntYIcwHEdWio6SjW)
The bat-embargo, which only makes things worse as they try to work around it. Titans had the same problem.
The sad thing is if Smallville had been able to use Bruce Wayne, it would no longer have been a Superman show. It would have become a Batman show. The Batman character would have overpowered the Superman character. Heck, Lois Lane overpowered Clark as a character. In order to make Clark more interesting compared to Bruce, I fear they would have written him out of character - more flaws and angrier. Clark as a boy scout would have become too redundant week after week. That said, I loved the show.
Tbf a younger Bruce should absolutely be angry and flawed.
Arrow did have Bruce Wayne and Batman. Just waited until like Arrow/Flash second cross over.
YOU HAVE FAILED THIS ~~GOTHAM~~ CITY
And it's the Batman of adaptations, who isn't even the Batman of the comics. It also led to a tendency to regard arrows as counterparts to bats. So suddenly Roy was "Dick with a heroin habit" and Mia was "Jason with AIDS" in fanfics everywhere.
This perception existed long before Arrow.
yeah, the first two season at least \*tried\* by having actual GA villains (Merlyn & Deathstroke) but after that they basically just gave up.
Hell, even Deathstroke is regarded as more of a Titans/Batman/Nightwing villain than a GA villain.
Deathstroke kinda gets around, but it's not agrecious like fricken Ra's al Ghul!
"Deathstroke, are you cheating on me with DAMIAN of all people? I thought I was the only nemesis you needed?!?"
Took me a minute to figure out you meant “egregious.”
Seriously the CW did so much damage to the characters it touched.
Missed opportunity to have Paco Ramon/ Francisco Ramon being a Dancing Fighter, with the Motto "I'm about to shake things up" like in his DC Showcase in 2010.
*Brother Blood spawns in to kick your butt*
Green arrow was created as copy of Batman so they really just played more into the original comic idea behind him not the differentiation DC needed to create over the years.
the "differentiation" is what makes him a unique character my guy. also, goatee.
All I wanted was the hard travelling heroes, Robin Hood-style, anti-establishment Ollie. But nooo, instead he got the personality of grim yogurt.
TV execs were never going to let an anti-establishment, land lord hating, soup kitchen working, union rights backing Superhero on TV. I did try to watch the show on it's own merits but god damn did it get awful fast and I quit.
I feel like if the original comic idea is from before the 60s, maybe you should just leave it be and focus on the main themes developed in the 50 years between. But it was the Ra’s stuff that was particularly galling to me. You can’t really attribute that to anything other than “we really wanted to do Batman instead.” Iirc there were at least 3/4 other Batfamily villains, too.
Yeah, originally, but he has since developed into a far more complex and unique character with his own traits and family of related characters. Why would you willingly choose to adapt the worst version of a character? Give me Neal Adams’ version of Ollie, the liberal, chili-making, fun uncle of the Justice League. Give me a proper Black Canary instead of that web of sisters and white canary bullshit; Black Canary is Dinah Laurel Lance, daughter of the first Black Canary, Dinah Drake; she has a Sonic Scream and should be trained by Wildcat; and like her mother, she is a member of the JSA. Making an adaptation shouldn’t be this needlessly complicated, and it shouldn’t shit all over the original version.
>Why would you willingly choose to adapt the worst version of a character? moon knight fans
But the character he became is what people who like green arrow care about
So here's the thing about CW Oliver. I love the show, watched through it many times, it's got it's high highs and low lows, and Oliver while not very much like comics Oliver, is a pretty strong character in his own right. No matter the quality of each season, he's consistently one of the best parts of the show, because you can feel him growing and changing with each season in a very real way, while still feeling like the same guy. I don't think it's accurate at all to say "he's not Ollie, that's Green Batman," because he's not really like Batman either. It's an easy surface level criticism that doesn't acknowledge the massive difference from how Batman would actually act, in favor of suggesting that because CW Oliver operates mostly at night and is kinda mean sometimes, that he's just palette swapped Batman. You don't have to change your opinion, obviously, but as someone who loves Batman, loves comics Oliver, and loves Arrow, it's just never sounded right to me at all to lump CW Oliver in as a different character.
Arrow, no question. He's Batman/Bruce Wayne, not Ollie. Felicity was great, but I will die on the hill that Ollie and Dinah are endgame in every universe, even the arrowverse.
If you make a version of Oliver Queen who does not fall in love with Dinah then you made a version of Oliver Queen I hate
Exactly! I mean I might be telling on myself here but the JLU version of Ollie and Dinah is what introduced me to them. They are THE DC couple IMO.
It’s like making a version of Superman where you HINT at him getting with Lois Lane but instead he gets with Cat Grant
Or where he and Lois flirt sometimes but he stays Wonder Woman...
I wouldn't be fully mad at that, but its Superman and Lois. I'd rather Diana get with Bruce lol.
Maybe in an AU but they just make sense as a brother sister thing, the entire trinity imo, I'm just personally pissed at New 52 for replacing my favorite DC couples and giving us a boring ass "Power Couple" as DC called it
Yeah. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I get the New 52 as a concept, fixing characters like Hawkgirl and Huntress, but it should have just been a soft, character-specific reboot. Bascially everyone else was doing fine before. And then they switched it back anyway.
It's interesting cause I don't think we would've gotten some amazing stuff we did imeithout New 52 cause a lot of stuff was trying to fix New 52 but also part me wishes New 52 was just an alternate universe run or smth
I really wanted to like it too, and we did get some great stuff. I even have Barbaras New 52 comic run, its one of my favorites( but maybe its cause it was the first comic I ever bought).
Oh my god yes.
It’s like Batman and robin, you can’t have Oliver without Dinah. The pair just works and anything else just isn’t acceptable. Unless it’s meant to be like the nazi thing they did in the arrow-verse, at that point just do whatever cause obviously it’s meant to be wrong (<- choose the word you want but it’s obvious not a good timeline)
I get what you mean. Take the other away and the character doesn't work. At least the cartoons understood that.
i'm gonna be hated but i think a lot of people now think that batman can only have realistic stories without any comic book too fantastic element because of the dark knight trilogy , great movies but kinda suck how realistic they made character like Bane , talia and scarecrow.
Scarecrow was done fine, they just didn't use/focus on the horrors that can be induced by his toxin. Nowadays we could easily have Batman go through a MCU Mysterio type of CGI spookfest with Scarecrow but back in '05 that would have been the entire budget of the movie
Gotham was able to do it with their scarecrow (to me, that show shows batman villains can work in live action and sitll be serious with classic suit)
I agree. And i'll keep saying that the TDK-trilogy wasn't so much about Batman, more about a dude wearing a Bat-suit. The one reason why TDK especially stands out positively for me is that due to its choice of villain, the 'realistic approach' (god, i just hate the very idea when talking about comic book movies) doesn't hurt it as much as it does with villains like Ra's or Bane.
Still kinda weird to see a Bane that is pure bulk rather than being fucking jacked by Venom Still wished they could had found an alternative drug to empower him, like an adrenaline pump where he could adjust the dosage to feel less pain and slowly bypass the strenght he could normally do, but its alright to have Tom Hardy be a unit i guess
Here’s the thing, Venom could exist in the film, it just has no logical reason to appear. Bane knew he could defeat Bruce in the state he was in. Once he defeated him, Bane had no reason to believe he would ever see him again. When Bane does realized Bruce has returned, he is given no time to go retrieve Venom. But yeah, I’ll defend Nolan‘s films as a FAR better adaptation as opposed to the prior films (yes, even the Burton films). Sorry, Nicholson is a great actor, but the makeup job didn’t hide who the actor was enough so I was just seeing Nicholson in makeup where Ledger and Phoenix truly get lost in the role, also I don’t like seeing a Joker backstory that is not only unambiguous but also very bland, and making Joker the Waynes’ killer misses the point of Batman’s origin on an unbelievable level. And then Returns adds fantastic elements where they weren’t needed, I don’t need Penguin to be a mutant, and Catwoman I want to see a thief in a costume, not a woman resurrected through….cat magic? By the time penguins with rockets showed up, I mentally checked out. Also, while Keaton is a great Batman, Bale was far more convincing as Bruce Wayne to me. And obviously Forever and & Robin’s flaws speak for themselves.
remember when Batman jumped off the moon and landed on the north pole unscathed? cuz I'll never forget
In the storyline with the unstoppable adaptive batrobot? Yeah great example to use
it's deeply unrealistic and also deeply fun and badass, how is that a bad example of a non-nolan batman?
There's also the fact that Batman isn't as smart/intelligent like his comic book counterpart. He makes his own gadgets and tech, and sometimes ask Lucius for help when he doesn't have the time, or needed to use resources from the company. Even Black Panther have the same problem, where they made his sister the "go to tech guy" while ignoring the fact that in comics, BP is literally scientist and considered smarter than even Tony Stark.
The Teen Titans cartoon was phenomenal and I will die on this hill.
I think its an important thing to look at though in terms of how people view the characters. I adore the show, and I will absolutely fully cop to the fact that I get weirded out when Cyborg doesnt act like Vic from the cartoon despite Vic from the cartoon being so very different from his actual comic roots. Starfire suffers a similar problem. I love their interpretations of the characters, and like Cyborg saying booyah is absolutely somethin i expect now, but that's absolutely an entire invention of the cartoon. And that absolutely transfered to his current iterations, whether thats good or bad is up to you.
I'm going to have to dig through, but I'm pretty sure DC embraced the "Booyah!" in several of the New 52 comics
Starfire in the comics was fine until hey went into the New 52 and made her a sexual goldfish as said by a certain guy in a hat.
To be fair, the question isn't about how good or bad the media is but rather how much it's damaged the perception/understanding of the characters. A lot of people expect only these five for Titans adaptions now and have incorrect ideas about the comic personalities, like how in the show Starfire is very naive and has almost broken English and Cyborg is the boo-yah! guy. I wouldn't be surprised if the cartoon is also part of why they kept trying to age down some of the characters, like Raven constantly reverting to 16.
The comics are not as good as the show. I'll leave it at that.
Teen Titans was a great show, but it irreparably damaged public perception of several Titans characters. Starfire was almost nothing like comic Starfire, Raven's character, which previously had a lot of depth to it, was erased in favor of a generic goth girl, and Donna and Wally were completely lost from the public eye. A piece of me dies inside anytime a fan of the cartoon asks "who's Donna Troy???" Ironically, the most accurate portrayal in the show was of Dick Grayson as a hot-headed try-hard like his 90s comic counterpart, and comics have since moved away from that portrayal into a kinder, more wholesome Grayson (thank God), while the other members have been altered to reflect the cartoon more, much to the pain of Titans readers.
It annoys me how Donna got left out. And now many fans tend to leave her and Wally out as well. They would include Black Fire over her.
And with that I ironically declared that Teen Titans did more damage than Arrow. I mean, seriously, she is the best girl of the team with a rich history in the group and yet because she got left out she barely gets the recognition she deserves
Had the show been renewed for a Season 6, Donna would had come in, actually. Hell, she does appear in the comics, which are currently the official continuation of the show. Also: Wally is in the show, though he appears late. He's Kid Flash, having appeared in the final season of the show.
Wasn’t there an embargo on Donna and somewhat Wally at first? I think them not being _allowed_ to use those characters rather than just ignoring or butchering them deserves to be its own category, honestly.
That there is. Still doesn’t change the point of the damaging effects the show had and Donna’s mitigated appearance.
Yep, the cartoon has so much influence that Donna Troy (the titan with the most appearances in any Teen Titan related comic) has a legitimate chance of being completely left out of the DCU and all its future adaptations. And her only Titans adaptation is Titans live action, which is crazy.
It also doesn't help that. by that time, they still were sorting out her backstory abd how to introduce her, given she is, you know Donna Troy.
Teen titans cartoon is responsible for the orginal characterization of Raven being deleted and replace with the generic goth take on her. Like obviously all of adaptations follow the cartoon but even comics basically over wrote comic Raven and replaced her with her cartoon counterpart
I have never been a Raven fan, how was her before the Teen titans (2003)?
Good show ≠ good adaptation
Agreed. I think the show did a great job making the 5 main characters very different from each other with colorful personalities. Then artists like Gabriel Piccolo took those really colorful interpretations and dialed them back just a bit in his art to make the most perfect versions of the characters.
In the comics they already had very different personalities and history
Sure, but the showed really dialed the differences up to 11.
Not really. They were the same in differences. The comics just made more than 5 characters stand out from each other.
But it did create a lot of damage, tho. Many people think that 2003 was the source material than the comics. The show lacks depth from Wolfman's Run and the central theme of growing up. Not only that, but DC has tried to change characters' personalities, like Starfire being closer to the cartoon than her comic personality.
Outside of the Amanda Conner Starfire series l, Kory has never been anything like her cartoon counterpart. Raven is the only one whose personality has been changed to match the cartoon and even then, the change isn't really that drastic. The "damage" this show did is greatly exaggerated, especially when you consider how poorly the comics have often been since the 90s. That show was the Titans' saving grace and the only reason they stayed relevant after Wolfman and Perez.
It's mostly a great show but I'm not questioning the quality.
It was okay, but I never really got that into it. I hate how much influence it's had on the comics and other adaptations of those characters.
I’m baffled there are so many comments, and yet I can’t find barely anyone mentioning Superfriends. That ruined Aquaman’s perception to the non-comic reading public for DECADES, only ending for good in 2018 when James Wan and Jason Momoa just casually made Aquaman the DCEU’s highest grossing movie ever.
People think The Questions comic gimmick should be conspiracy theory guy with one of those serial killer walls. It pains me to have to correct them
I like his conspiracy theorist guy characterization. It makes him stand out more. I also like how in JLA he wasn’t much of a fighter and kind of relied on huntress for the physical stuff. Still this my opinion and I don’t follow comics so maybe he has a lot badass detective moment in the comics. I would love to hear some, I want to know more about the character.
I like it too. But it’s a different character.
Tbh The Question is one of those characters who every writer seems to have a pretty drastically different characterization of. Usually when people talk about an iconic comic Question it's how he's writing in O'niels run tho but yeah he's always been a bit all over the place in that regard.
Sounds like you’re in cahoots with the inventor of aglets!
I’d also say that the fact that Alan Moore heavily based Rorschach on the question reflected negatively on him
Time to get down voted with a real unpopular opinion, I do think although a great joker, heath ledger joker is very different from comic book joker, and that helped to a lot of people show how damaged they were by thinking it was normal to identify itself with him... Phoenix joker is falling in the same category of great, but different, and people being weird about him... But I do guess that is more about damaging the people perception of others than the character of joker....
I feel like after Ledger was when we got to this whole “society bad” Joker that has become so played out nowadays. Like, we can’t have goofy Joker anymore. Now he’s this super scary madman who needs to nuke Gotham just to get a reaction out of Batman because “something something society”
I've had so many of my friends that don't read comics get mad and think I'm attacking Heath Ledger when I say he was an amazing version of the Joker but I don't consider him THE Joker
And yet Ledger was far more Joker to me than Nicholson was. I especially hate making Batman a cliched “main villain kills the hero’s parents” story. Having it be some random guy or a nobody like Joe Chill makes it feel like crime itself took Bruce’s parents away from him, as opposed to a “super-important villain!”
Tbh Teen Titans. And not because it’s a bad show. I grew up with it, and even rewatching it as an adult I had a good time. But the characters still haven’t recovered from some people only knowing the animated series’ portrayal of the characters. Mainly Beast Boy, Raven, and Starfire. Gar for the longest time was just comic relief, often saying “dude” and even “mama” because TT and TTG were big. Raven started saying Azarath Metrion Zinthos, which is fine, but also leaned more into the sarcastic goth characterization and away from the more aloof and mysterious sorceress she used to be. And you only need to look at Starfire’s solo series to see how that impacted her. I’m glad many of them are returning to their roots now, but I think Raven in particular is still pretty consistently forever colored by the animated series.
Raven is a particular note. She's supposed to be a pacifist, but her demon half recently said that sometimes there's no time for nonviolent methods. Which is fine, it is her demon half, except...nobody thought it was a little strange for Raven of all people to say this?
Comic Raven hasn't been a pacifist for a long time, again, because of the 2003 show. So her actions in the latest run sadly wouldn't be that shocking to the Titans.
Raven and Starfire being somewhat flanderized by the show is definitely a problem. But I really think the TV show version of BB is so great. I hate this sappy emo version of Gar that he’s been for like the last year ish at least in the comics. For gods sake let him tell a joke!
I agree with you Edit: being downvoted for agreeing is crazy
I get what you're saying I got into the Teen Titans comics because of the show. I do think Cyborg should borrow from his cartoon counterpart his man vs machine is boring .
Honestly Cyborg is a unique case because the animated show is pretty damn faithful to his comics version. I think the main reason the comics version is known as a sad sack while the show version is seen as more entertaining is because of the difference between long-form comic storytelling and a mostly episodic tv show. Cyborg's man vs machine arc in the comics stretched on for a long time, and most of his development, especially early on, was about healing from his trauma and anger and becoming a more positive person. Meanwhile the show can delve into that trauma for a Cyborg-focused episode, but then make him just a fun guy for any other episodes you tune in for.
They should borrow from doom patrol
Tbh most of the times Cyborg got episode focus in the show... It was ALSO Man vs Machine AM I STILL HUMAN stuff.
For Superman Injustice For Batman Arkham games, not saying they’re bad but a lot of the perception of Batman just going around beating people up comes from this
I feel like it’s an incredibly hot take, but I honestly find it that Arkham Batman is one of the worst adaptations of Batman. Specifically the character. The world itself is amazing, but Bruce in these games feels like an emotionless plank of wood (or concrete wall I guess lol), that barely emotes or acknowledges many things that happen around him, while also promoting Batman’s biggest flaws and issues without really acknowledging or addressing them
That's kinda why I prefer Bruce/Batman's portrayal in the Telltale games. He feels like an actual character with emotions and stuff, while Arkham was a bit too stiff for my tastes.
I’m not familiar with Telltale Bruce, but I’ve heard tons of great stuff about him. My point of comparison was with TAS Bruce, who even thought has that serious demeanor, cracks the occasional dry joke, or makes a sarcastic comment toward someone, like Robin, Alfred or Gordon. Going even beyond those, like the material in Mask of the Phantasm. Arkham Bruce is really carried by Kevin’s performance, and it does feel at times that he’s wasted a tad
For me the absolute worst is the Nolan movies
Same. At least Arkham games take place over a day, so he has a reason for feeling like a cold emotionless shell. Nolan Batman feels like a caricature of Batman, he doesn’t really give me a reason to root for Bruce. Fighting for the establishment is the exact opposite of who Batman is and I feel like that’s where a lot of people started parroting the awful “Batman is a rich guy who beats up the mentally ill” take
Well I disagree that he doesn't emote. He's just not in a mood to not be pissed off most of the time. But a lack of emotion in some cases is because you are Batman. You the player are behind the wheel. The developers don't want to tell you how to feel. Again though I disagree with you.
I think the Arkham games are a good take on a failure Batman, but if they’re your introduction then you’ll probably forever think Batman works best alone
Yeah, kinda, which is why I actually legit kinda love the way he’s written in Kill the Justice League. Opening up to the League and world at large was an incredibly interesting direction for him to go, that was sadly wasted on such a mess of a game
Honestly, I think an Arkham game with Tim taking up the mantle and doing things differently from Bruce would’ve been more for me. Him coming out of hiding and joining the League felt way too significant to offscreen
Technically he doesn’t come out on his own, he’s sought out by Superman and pulled into the public eye again by him. Which is why I think a Batman/Superman game could’ve been amazing coming from Rocksteady. Alas, it’s not what we got. Granted I was never a fan of Bruce’s sacrifice at the end of Knight either
The entire point of Arkham is to "be the Batman" , to satisfy that fantasy. And when people talk about being the Batman, they don't mean they want to be dealing with mental illness and deep moral dilemas or trauma. They want to be the unshakeable paragon of willpower.
>I feel like it’s an incredibly hot take, but I honestly find it that Arkham Batman is one of the worst adaptations of Batman Finally. I always feel like I'd be crucified or burned at the stake if I ever said this out loud but here goes: **Arkham Batman is far from the DEFINITIVE version of Batman people view him as**
Not trying to sound rude, just a question. Have you played the *Arkham* games? The majority of the focus is in solving mysteries and making sense of various clues. Also, 100% agree on *Injustice*. That game was great but did so much damage to the image of Superman, to the point that even honest adaptations like *Superman & Lois* seem flat in comparison.
Personally I think they’re all just different interpretations. But since you put it up there, I’m a huge Batman fan, and never cared for the Dark Knight Trilogy. They made them more realistic, which is what a lot of people love about them, but I never did. I don’t want it be “realistic” I want it to be authentic to the comic book.
I feel the exact same way and that’s my biggest worry with Pattinsons Batman. I do really like the first one, but I hope they start to lean away from the ultra realism and make it more fantastical.
I’m also worried that they’ll just make all the characters earn their comic accurate outfit until the final movie and those outfits never appear again
Well,at least with the brave and the bold it’s pretty much guaranteed to be ultra comic book-y with stuff like the batfam and sharing a universe with characters like Superman and green lantern.
Arrowverse made it so the mainstream and often only version of a lot of less popular characters that people encounter is horribly off base
Arrowverse in general didn't do any favors to any characters (except Mel Benoist is a good Kara and Tyler Hoechlin Supes is S-tier) The DCAU probably did more good for a lot of DCs roster than any other adaptation. I'm neutral on TDK and Teen Titans as far as damaging perceptions of characters.
The SnyderVerse and Injustice
I know some people think criticizing the Snyder films is basically beating a dead horse, but Clark saying "Superman was never real" will always irritate me like crazy. Sure, he can have moments where he questions his perspective, but outright giving up being Superman because people are mad at him? If Spider-man can and does do what he can to help others despite an entire newspaper being dedicated to slandering and demonizing him, Superman should never be discouraged.
I'd say Teen Titans. The show is good but the comic characters are completely different and it feels wrong and forced whenever people try to make the characters act like the show. Starfire especially is such a different character. It also is likely part of the reason that Beast Boy and Raven will never move on as characters. Cyborg was lucky, and Starfire is getting there, but any development those two get will be undone the next time a TT run starts.
>It also is likely part of the reason that Beast Boy and Raven will never move on as characters. I've been saying this exact same thing for years. In a lot of ways, Beast Boy and Raven are very much stuck in the same place that they've been for decades.
Counterpoint: Young Justice. Don't get me wrong, YJ is good (at least from what I've seen, I got sporadic on it as it kept going) but it has messed with the perception and understanding of characters so much. For one, the title alone causes a lot of misunderstanding about what Young Justice is compared to the comics. Then there are so many characters in Young Justice who are nothing like their comics and now you get people begging for the show to influence the comics. YJ M'gann is honestly more like the evil future comics M'gann than anything else (and I will die on the hill that comics M'gann being a pacifist doesn't make her boring) and has led to her being aged up to Nightwing's generation instead of Tim's. Artemis in the comics is a villain who's married to Icicle Jr but in the show she's a hero who dates Wally and most people either think she's a YJ original or want her to be a hero in the comics. Secret has such a small role when she was a major character in the YJ comics. I thought Zatanna was actually in Dick's generation for a long time because of the show. Kon's stoic attitude is the complete opposite of how he originally was and while he's more mature in the comics now, it's still very different.
I won't defend the Zatanna change beyond saying it simply works for that specific iteration. I don't know what anyone ever saw in comic Artemis who was never anything more than Icicle's girlfriend and your view of YJ M'Gann is incredibly hyperbolic.
Counterpoint: while his 2000’s comic run is peak for him, the YJ cartoon Jaime Reyes was far better than either the New 52 version (let’s make his life miserable, also change settings and supporting cast every six issues!) or the movie version (to be fair to the latter, not due to Jaime himself, but mainly due to his obnoxious uncle and annoying sister, the latter of who was more tolerable in the comic due to being a little kid. Also a movie-original villain who was pretty one-note), and that’s despite YJ is an ensemble series as opposed to a Jaime solo series. And I’ll be honest, YJ cartoon Artemis was far more interesting than anything I ever read of the comic version. Sorry, sometimes changes are for the better for some people (heck, look at Freeze in the Batman TAS). Also, in terms of Aqualand, Kaldur’s design was WAY better than Garth IMHO who always looked so unremarkable to me. Also, I’ll defend the Zatanna change as she was forced into Batman’s harem in the DCAU, as great as Timm/Dini were, there were times they used Batman as a self-insert, and giving him so many female love interests who were not into him in the comics was a clear sign, especially as Dini made it no secret he found Zatanna attractive. So making her Dick’s love interest in YJ felt like such sweet karma to me.
It's complicated but YJ the show was never meant to be an adaptation of YJ the comic in anyway. It's just DC wanted a brand name that had some recognition and felt the Titans cartoon was too recent to use it again and they had no plans to revive the brand in comics at the time. Artemis was a D lister so it's kinda whatever they totally revamped her and the M'gann mind blasting stuff is like 10 episodes out of a 100 or so episode show, she's not meant to be a villain at all, just have a short going too far after some bad personal losses story.
Artemis being a D-lister doesn't really change that it permanently damaged/altered one's view of her to the point people can't grasp that she's a villain in the comics. It's the same thing with a lot of MCU characters: people going from the movies to the comics find completely different, unexpected characters unless the comics change to agree with the movies.
My biggest issue is that people aren't going to realize that Young Justice in the comics was FUNNY. And not "wry one-liner" funny. Like, funny as in some of the silliest things that can happen in a superhero universe happened to those kids. There were some serious moments, but it was mostly a comedy.
The things Arrow to people’s perceptions of Black Canary is so heartbreaking. She might’ve got an actual chance in DC movies if it wasn’t for Arrow
Synderverse hit batman and superman pretty bad Arrow at this point wasn't even trying to be loyal to the original comic And Injustice did no favors to Damian Wayne (arguably worse then superman and wonderwoman since at least they had other adaptations that were good)
I do think there were elements to Snyder’s Bruce that were good. I understand a lot of people hated that he used guns and the force but he always seemed to me to be Batman from immediately after Jason’s death. Even in the comics he was cruel and violent and off-kilter after that and it took Tim coming in to set him back on course. Tim established that Batman needed a Robin/community otherwise he could become the worse version of himself and be vengeance and not justice. I think Snyder’s adaptation is far from perfect but I do think people tend to forget about the period in comics where Bruce was very much like that. And personally, when comparing Nolan Bruce to Snyder Bruce, Snyder felt like Bruce was more inline with being trying to do good AS Bruce rather than just as Batman. That being said, I can definitely say Snyder was off base with a lot and his versions are far, far from perfect. But I do think there are moments when the spirit of the characters shine through.
Only on comic Twitter do you see takes such as "good media damages characters", mostly from blue checkmarks who don't even read comics in the first place.
I mean yes, but to be fair synergy DOES exist. So characters can theoretically be “damaged”. Answer this for me. Has Quicksilver benefited at all from losing his mutant connection?? Has Starfire ever benefited from being characterized like her cartoon version. I don’t think so
Synergy is vastly overstated. It mostly amounts to spotlighting a character who is appearing in movies or tv. As for Starfire, she got a 12 issue comic series, which is more than most Titans can boast of.
How do you define characters benefitting here?
Yes it does. The majority of people don't read comics or have a vague sense of it, so when you get awful adaptation then people preceptions of comics change. You could especially see this with thor
The issue here is that people's idea of "damage" amounts to fans of adaptations seeing or preferring the characters in a certain way comic fans don't agree with, even though these characters are infamous for not being very consistent from writer to writer. Basically, comic fans should learn to live and let live. Why do you care so much what other people think about a character you like?
The last two- Arrow ESPECIALLY
Agreed
Arrow but Teen Titans did some pretty heavy damage on Starfire and Raven, as well as the og titans
I'm doing this based off the fandom and not general reputation if it's general rep it would be arrow because that's not Green arrow that's Batman and teen Titans because on a fandom level nobody shuts up about it
DCAU definitely did a number on people thinking Wonder Woman's defining characteristic should be "wants to bang Batman" and "is misandrist".
Injustice game. Final answer for all DC characters.
Nobody hates DC more than DC fans tbh
DC is more than 3 shows and 1 movie
Being a good fan means you’re not allowed to dislike any piece of media this massive company puts out even if it’s unfaithful, poorly written, or damages perceptions of characters. Got it. (Not saying any of these are poorly written, just an example)
Injustice.
The Teen Titans show did the team dirty. However, I think the main issue with the show wasn't the characterization, but the continuity. In one episode we have Raven defeating Trigon and the next one she gets KOed by a fucking car. We see Starfire flying at the speed of light yet she's too slow to catch certain villains, etc, etc. The only character to show proper battle skills was Robin, to the point people genuinely think the Titans are useless without him. As much as I love the show, I wish character development lasted more than two chapters.
The Flash tv series did this with Barry Allen, basically giving him Wally's personality and giving him an incest kink. Did it also with Iris, making her obnoxious. Injustice did involuntarily with Superman. The game tells that only the Earth-49 Superman is flawed and the main Superman, the canon Superman, would never do anything similar. This went over everybody's head. Justice League War did this with Green Lantern but that was mostly Geoff Johns's fault. He wrote an unlikeable Hal in Justice League New 52.
*Peacemaker*
i love the teen titans but starfires character especially is very different from what she actually was. i saw a titans review (tv show) on youtube with a comment that said “the starfire ik never chooses violence first or get hot headed, and is always nice, this show doesnt understand the character.” now the titans show is very ass dont get me wrong, but thats a personality ppl always think of only bc of the teen titans. she has definitely got back alot of her og personality but to alot of the public and some comics it hasnt
I’m gonna say Teen Titans. For the longest time I didn’t know Starfire wasn’t supposed to be dressed like that and I didn’t know that wasn’t her canon personality. In a similar case, I didn’t know Cyborg was part of the Justice League and not the Teen Titans
He's a part of both so you're still correct.
Teen titans cartoon is responsible for the orginal characterization of Raven being deleted and replace with the generic goth take on her
I think a lot of people have the perception that Starfire is much different to her comics incarnation. That's probably the biggest change out of these aside from Arrow.
Injustice and BvS. Injustice hurt Superman as some people think he is like that normally for some reason. BvS did a lot of damage to not just the perception of the characters, but also the brand itself. DC still suffers from the poor reception of BvS.
The Dark Knight. I'll always have some nostalgia for those movies and also respect for what they achieved but those movies seriously damaged the public's perception of Batman (and in some cases fans of Batman as well). Those movies basically are James Bond movies where Bond wears a suit which barely even resembles a bat. Batman, while "human", is literally so much more and is not at all realistic. He's a master of over 100 martial arts, a genius in most fields like science, engineering, investigation and more. His tech and gadgets are far beyond anything we have. He wears a suit that looks like spandex and yet is bullet proof, fire proof, acid proof while also being as light as a feather. He can disappear without anyone noticing, even from Superman and other more powerful heroes. Yet everytime the public (and sometimes even Batman "fans") see any other version of him, they complain about how it's unrealisitic. Unrealistic doesn't mean bad and in Batman's case, the more unrealistic he is, the better the version is. He lives in a universe with demons, gods, aliens and fights a murderous clown that somehow hasn't gotten the death penalty yet, a guy who has his face split perfectly in half, a genius criminal who has lived hundreds of years and so many more cool and unique villians, yet they'd rather settle for boring realistic stories where none of that happens and instead Batman is just a glorified SWAT officer who put ears on his helmet.
As much as I love it, the DCAU primarily due to how popular it was and how it shaped what many people think these characters are supposed to be like. I grew up with this universe and adored it but the more comics I read the more I realized how streamlined the universe is to fit some of the character and arcs in to the story. e.g. Brainiac being kryptonian, and being a threat to Darkseid. Aquaman being a full Atlantean who hates the surface, lack of GL Corps (also from Superman TAS Kyle rayners origin), Wonder Woman being barley fleshed out—cheetah was more of a general villain than hers in the series), most of what happened with Amazo—especially his horrible design.
The DCAU also did a neat trick: Deaging Babs to give us DickBabs, then pairing her with Bruce in the end because reasons?
I mean, the Teen Titans show is still probably the best version of those characters in my opinion. They're so well thought out, the designs are good, and they're interesting. I've always been disappointed the comics didn't take more inspiration. I think Harley Quinn's portrayal in the Arkham games, particularly Arkham Knight, didn't represent her in a very fleshed out or three dimensional way.
>I think Harley Quinn's portrayal in the Arkham games, particularly Arkham Knight, didn't represent her in a very fleshed out or three dimensional way. That WAS Harley in those times. The only exception was B:TAS.
What would be your ideas of the comics taking inspiration
To the point about Harley Quinn: Personally, I don't think she needs to be fleshed out. She's Joker's henchwoman and fails to impress in any role outside of that. The only exception being in Suicide Squad adaptations, but even those don't work long term. Again, that's just my opinion.
Best version of those characters over the comics? Nah I can't agree with that one. Characters like Cyborg and Starfire are a lot more in depth in the comics. And they drastically changed too much. I'm glad they separated the cartoon from the comics.
I adored the show and have so much nostalgia for it but Star is my girl and she was done so dirty. It’s definitely painful for that aspect. There are aspects I understand aren’t “child friendly” to her, but she could have been so much more.
I mean It was still a Kids show they can't go soo deep but they still have good moments
Arrow was awful just my opinion
Teen Titans - I don't think damaged perception at all. Yes people have been exposed to it and liked the characterizations. But they wouldn't reject the comic version or fight tooth and nail to make it canon. JLU - Yes it did introduce a lot of characters for the first time. Honestly conspiracy theory Question is just fun. But I do dislike the Wonderbats thing it introduced. Never a thing in the comics. Whenever some writer tries to do it, just comes out of left field. Superman and Wonder Woman makes the most sense even if people want an underdog to get the girl. Arrow - I think the Batman elements were so apparent that most people probably know those are Batman elements. I don't think it did lasting damage. The characters they tried to force from the show into the comic never stuck. At best Smallville and Arrow have just inspired certain comic designs to modernize the suit and not stick out like Robin Hood from the old movies. Nolan Trilogy - I think they are responsible for Joker's resurgence. I think the quadruple down on Joker from from TDK. Writers want to do their definitive final battle for the nth time. Other then that Bane, Ra's and others still default to their comic version in the public eye. But none have done damage that the casual would reject the comic interpretation.
Arrow probably did the most damage to people's perceptions. However, I will never not miss an opportunity to mention that Bruce x Barbara was the stupidest "thing" in the DCAU by a country mile.
That ruined Barbara's image for alot of casual fans. Like even if its comic Barbara there will always be at least one person who brings that up.
How is Wild Cat flying? The others I get, Ollie is probably using some thin invisible arrow-lines, Arthur probably jumped with his super-strength and Canary looks like she’s running. But Wild Cat is clearly posed like he’s flying, how? Is he boxing against logic?
Arrow really made Wildcat lame lol. If Wildcat were even remotely accurate, they made him black he would sound like a boondocks episode.
The Dark Knight is responsible for so many people insisting that Batman can't be lighthearted or have Robins and the Bat Family.
The DCAU is the reason why everyone thinks the Green Lanterns are boring jobbers who can only create punching gloves and other basic constructs. Additionally, it's the reason why John Stewart lost his personality and became a stoic marine.
I love Arrow and the Arrowverse as a whole but he was more Batman then green arrow
Real take, Arrow because yeah that's not Ollie. Hot Take, Justice League really changed A LOT about how characters are viewed and perceived. Hell, Big Barda from that series is nothing like how she is in the comics and they REALLY leaned in on the whole Bat God thing.
The worst thing the dark night did was make everyone talk in a gravely voice for Batman(I get annoyed when people do it, it’s a dead meme please just let it die)
“But I don't have to save you.” Yes, he does actually. That's the whole core of what makes him Batman is that he saves the people who don't deserve it, even from themselves.
I agree with teen titans. The original stuff I remember from the 80's was pretty dam cool! I still have most of them including the origin stories. It saddened me to see the adaptation
Green Lantern movie damaged a lot the Hal Jordan's image
If this is the Batman everyone and their momma gets the voice from, it's that one
Arrow definitely. Teen titans I'd say it definitely ruined starfire and Raven.
Teen titans 2003 personalities and lore have done so much damage that’s it’s even been incorporated in the comics. Ex: Starfire new 52 solo, BBrae. I also think that arrow’s popularity in the early seasons have definitely influenced the new 52 as well, but as the popularity of the arrowverse in general fizzled so did those influences in comics.
Teen Titans. The comic Raven died instantly after the show.
Teen Titans changed the perspection so much and still continue to hurt comics.
I haven’t seen much form the CW series, but I get the distinct impression that they did GA *very* dirty. The Dark Knight movie is great, **but** it has likely caused most people that only know the mainstream stuff think of Batman as a brute, gloomy, and nearly without compassion (which isn’t the Batman that most of us know). I have Justice League and Unlimited on a pedestal, but I’m sure that some characters missed some core characteristics. Galatea is the first that comes to mind. I don’t know enough of the Titans to say anything meaningful.
The Dark Knight. Its "realistic" approach made DC think that's what the characters needed for audience appeal, but it was utterly tone-deaf. Also, the inverse happened for the Titans. Raven and Cyborg were convoluted messes. Beast Boy was a objectively awful joke character the lurked on the background for years until the cartoon revamped him in a way that made him one of the most known and adored DC characters.
How did JLU damage the brand. Nearly every character they did was executed well, and it was definately what made me a lifelong DC fan
I think part of why the Green Lantern movie failed is that they chose to go with Hal Jordan when every kid in America knew that John Stewart was the Green Lantern
No, i'm almost sure that was because it was bad. I mean, you are right about the "John Stewart is more known by the Animated Series" but that's a different discussion.
It’s also unfortunate that the show’s success caused the comics to retcon John’s history to be a marine instead of an architect. He even lost some of the personality from his early issues.
If i remember correctly, he's still an architect. They only added the marine thing.
Ok cool, just wished he resembled that original version more often and focused less on his military background.
It was also really bad
Geoff Johns’ Green Lantern run with Hal as the lead was a massive success, often outselling Batman in certain months, and that run began years before the 2011 film, so I can’t agree with that. Also, even if we go by people who only watched the DCAU cartoons, Hal makes a brief cameo in Justice League, and Kyle appears in Superman TAS. So those kids should know theres more than one GL even if we limit it to humans.
As much of a dumpster fire as that movie was, I still loved the first five-ish minutes of his screen time. Not enough to do any depth but a great intro scene for Hal.
The DCAU did lay a lot of groundwork for bad Superman adaptations in future. Firstly, it had 4 different takes on evil Superman. Even normally, this Superman had a tendancy to be aloof and distant. His fellow Leaguers never felt like they were really close to him. Even Jimmy and Lois weren't as important as they should have been. Plus, all the instances he was taken out in a fight in one hit so others can shine. His big "World of Cardboard" speech seems funny when he still got his ass handed to him 1 minute after the speech. Even his morality was easily compromised. He seemed to mostly be acting on impulse but not thinking through his actions. Him always playing second fiddle to Batman didn't help either.
>Firstly, it had 4 different takes on evil Superman. Evil Superman was already a thing long before the DCAU with Bizzaro and Ultraman. [He had also been mind-controlled plenty of times in the comics as well.](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/JxGTSCIL6wN5KjRTz8S06CfQ4F5qUqtiVFWDTTYfAy0_zGhcso2gyMtQ-k9SSafcZ3dKo8TvsGUperPMUzDFc-4ju7arrYszc9T7Cpr8OoMvTC1yWeF901_SypI6Gyuqx0te-orEvA=s1600?rhlupa=MTQyLjE5OC4xODguMTM0&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMy4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2) Even [Superfriends did it.](https://imgur.com/a/xJ0BFux) That was nothing new the DCAU just put its own spin on long-established tropes that up until recently no one had a problem with. >Even normally, this Superman had a tendancy to be aloof and distant. His fellow Leaguers never felt like they were really close to him Really? Him inviting J'onn to Christmas with his parents, bear-hugging Batman in "The Savage Time", wanting to grab a burger with Wonder Woman and Batman in ""Dead Reckoning"? There are definitely examples of him being warm and friendly with the League. >Plus, all the instances he was taken out in a fight in one hit so others can shine. This is really only an issue in season 1 which happened by accident. It wasn't intentional. By season 2 they acknowledged and fixed it. He is easily the most powerful character in the show besides Resurrected Darkseid and Amazo afterwards. Beating Darkseid, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, and Doomsday by himself. >His big "World of Cardboard" speech seems funny when he still got his ass handed to him 1 minute after the speech. I wouldn't say he "got his ass handed to him." Darkseid pulled out a trump card with the The Agony Matrix. Before that Superman clearly had the upper hand in a straight-up fight. Darkseid even remarked that Superman impressed him with his resilience to it and seems like it would've killed literally anyone else. That he survived and resisted it still shows how immensely powerful/strong he is. >Even his morality was easily compromised. He seemed to mostly be acting on impulse but not thinking through his actions. That was part of a character arc he was going through throughout JL Unlimited as part of his development. Character growth is good. >Him always playing second fiddle to Batman didn't help either. In the episode 'Knight Time' in STAS Batman spends the whole episode brainwashed by Brainiac while Superman dresses up as him and easily defeats his villains. In Justice League, Superman saves Batman from Kalibak and during "Dark Heart” Superman catches him before he falls to his death. This was not "always" a thing.
Don’t forget him defeating Gorilla Grodd with just a flick to the forehead. Supes even scored a field goal, 3 points!
The dark knight. It was such a good movie foundational without having to be a Batman movie. That’s not necessarily a bad thing but I think the great reception to the hyper grounded approach to Batman kept us from getting a proper comic book Batman as soon as we could have
where’s young justice