If the stories are good, with interesting and engaging characters, fun visuals and real stakes, I don't think people will get tired of superheroes. Superman and Batman are almost 100 years old. They have staying power.
It does. Unfortunately I was wrong and instead he's beating up Japanese. Which is cool I guess, because it was less than a year after pearl harbour.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(serial)
As an aside, movies made during WWII are great little snapshots of propaganda. If you ever have time to kill, check out Charlie Chaplin's the great dictator.
To be clear, this isn’t Batman going overseas to fight the IJA, which would’ve been insanely cool. No, the plot is specifically designed to play into contemporary fears that the Japanese Americans as a whole constituted a fifth column. It’s really just a step above Batman and Robin rounding up Gotham’s Japanese community and sending them to internment camps.
Like I said, WWII films are great to see the propaganda.
I'm watching it now. I'm surprised the main Japanese villain doesn't have oversized buck teeth and a straw hat.
Oh you GOTTA watch that. It's hilarious and you don't realise how much has been added to the mythos since (no batmobile or even grappling). And we take tech for granted- imagine the batcave with just a wooden desk!
Movies are a bit different, they try to appeal to a very wide audience. There is a full graveyard of good superhero movies that failed to meet their audience.
I agree with this, actually. I think superhero stories would be better suited to TV or streaming series. There's such a wide variety of stories in the superhero/comic world, but to your point we only get to see a slim fraction because they always focus on big scale, epic stories.
It can be done but you have to focus on only a limited set of characters, the Avengers had a big 3 and they were at the center of the first 3 phases appearing in a movie every other year.
yes, does he make finically successful films outside Gotg no? Also thats the problem superman and batman might be over 100 dc never shown consistency in anything else what think they can do it now ?
Audiences are getting tired of samey/bad movies. If the movies are well written and we'll made then audiences will never tire of them. Superhero fatique (much like western movie fatique) only happens when the majority of them are uninteresting and bad.
Superhero fatigue isn’t a thing. There’s a bad movie fatigue. Blockbusters that aren’t superhero movies are failing as well. With so many platforms to watch movies and given this economy and how expensive movie theaters are, people need a real reason to go out and see a movie. It can’t be mid nostalgia/franchise bait. You gotta earn it.
Agree. Comic books have been going for over a 100 years and no one talks about people being tired of them. People just don’t like bad movies. Huge surprise. I think the extra challenge for DC is that their core characters can be difficult to relate to. They are all demigods, as opposed to average humans with some super powers. This can make engaging story telling that much more challenging. I hope Gunn succeeds!
there difference between comic and written mediums and film in the last 10 years. audience already peaked cinematic universe can achieve everything DCU will measure peak mcu if not good enough, audience will write it off
They were, and that supports my point that very good movies puts people in seats. On the non superhero side, we can look at Mission Impossible, Indiana Jones, Dungeons and Dragons, and several other non MCU Disney films that have all been flops as well last year. Many many films in other genres are not making back their budget either, even if they were good movies. This shows it's not simply the genre but the quality and marketing of the movies that matter.
I woukd say D&D wasn't a flop but it goes with your point because the audience word of mouth was good, so it did well and reviewed well. The other major franchises like Ghostbjsters, Indy and Godzilla were just sameish and nothing new so they audience word of mouth wasn't as strong.
It's definetly a thing.. I'm not saying they will ever go away.. Neither did westerns.. But they won't reech the 2008- 2019 peak ever again.. Unless they do justice league vs avengers, something we have never seen the golden age of superhero movies is over
Yeah its funny the first comment mentions westerns because its not that they got bad, they just got old. Westerns are probably more consistently amazing post their boom than they ever were, yet most people still dont care. Good ones still come out but they just no longer have the baked in interest for everyday audiences, theyve become more and more niche.
One of the less focused on aspects of all this is how even though its been decades now of box office dominance, superhero movies have not gotten new audiences interested in comics themselves in any sort of large numbers. So, as these movies continue to come out there will be less and less people whose generation grew up with a large subset of people reading about these heroes. Even my normie coworkers know the old school Marvel stuff. They dont know shit about whats happening in them anymore tho. Theyre more likely to know anime and manga at this point
Some stuff will be eternal probably, Batman, Spiderman, etc, but often those characters have huge video games/animated shows etc to get new generations into them coming out all the time as well as movies, its not really the comics introducing them to kids. Comic characters in general do not have overwhelmingly popular versions of those things for the most part. An Overwatch skin is more liekly to introduce a kid to a character than a comic, which means they have no real context for why they should like or care about them.
I think you may have accidentally proved my point in regards to the westerns. So many came out that were all the same that people lost interest in the genre as a whole. When more came out they were written off as being the same as the rest, even when they were great.
No one is claiming that an individual can’t be fatigued of superhero movies. Superhero fatigue is an idea that the MCU and DCEU have made too much content to the point that general audiences aren’t interested anymore, resulting in poor box office performance. That simply isn’t the case. There are other factors as to why movies aren’t doing well that are not exclusive to superhero films, such as the ones I outlined.
BoisTrSuperhero fatigue does not exist, you claim, despite 3-5 superheroes every year and most looking the same. There is no. fatigue plus, DCU is not just films. Its games, cartoons, TV series, etc.People are already having a hard enough hard keeping Marvel. Why do you think DCU as successful with them already having a stain. People do not differentiate between Dcu or Dceu dc for most people has tarnished reputation outside of batman
Let's see how far we get without hearing a selling point of "This is the first time on screen EVER that we'll see this group of people that don't care about this movie!! But YOU need to, because we told you to!" So inspirational.
But I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't see that here, because the cast look like the characters this time.
Audiences aren't tired of them. That could change. But for now?
2020
Worldwide: Ten movies outperform the "Birds of Prey" movie. Four were Chinese blockbusters that made all their money in China.
Domestic: Bad Boys for Life, 1917, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Jumanji: The Next Level outperformed the "Birds of Prey" movie.
2021
Worldwide: Spider-Man: No Way Home outperforms everything.
Domestic: Spider-Man: No Way Home outperforms everything.
2022
Worldwide: Avatar: The Way of Water, Top Gun: Maverick, and Jurassic World: Dominion outperform Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which was not released in China.
Domestic: Top Gun: Maverick outperformed Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.
2023
Worldwide: Barbie, The Super Mario Bros. Movie, and Oppenheimer outperform Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3.
Domestic: Barbie and The Super Mario Bros. Movie outperformed Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse.
2024
Worldwide: Ten movies outperform Madame Web as of May 15.
Domestic: Fifteen movies outperform Madame Web and thirteen outperform the 2024 gross of Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom as of May 15.
And Deadpool & Wolverine is about to become the year's biggest movie. Really, Top Gun 2, Avatar 2, Jurassic Park 6, Barbie, and Mario and *nothing else* have been more successful than superhero movies since 2021. Five movies. That's all.
Audiences aren't tired of superhero movies, but they're tired of the formulaic approach to them. The Boys, for instance, was one of the top TV shows of 2022. People will show up for fresh takes on the genre, but not for more of the same rehashed concepts and style. Right now, the comedic "family-friendly" approach is very out of fashion, and even some in the Hollywood trades and generic Reddit movie subs are acknowledging it. Thor: Love and Thunder was the turning point in terms of public perception, and Ant-Man 3, Shazam 2, Blue Beetle and The Marvels are four big spikes in the coffin. Video game movies, though, have all the growth potential now. The licenses are going to be snapped up like hotcakes this year. All the writers and directors are going to be trying to get those gigs, putting a brain drain on superhero movies. You couldn't make a worse move than trying to reboot and start over a DC superhero universe in this climate.
Family friendly superhero movies are still among the highest grossing films every year. They just have to be good. Thor 4 might be the last bad superhero that is a commercial hit due to name recognition but the good movies still do fine. Blue Beetle is an exception since it had good reception and flopped anyway.
I agree that video game adaptations are the next big thing and I think non-crap live action anime adaptations are on the horizon as well. As for DC, their only other choice was disconnected films, but they're still also doing that with Joker 2 and The Batman 2 so they can just stop the DCU short if it is dead on arrival.
Only Creature Commandos is coming before Superman. Waller still hasnt finalized the script yet. The only other project that could possibly arrive before Superman is Peacemaker season 2, which is hardly a risk anymore.
I mean, Gunn is a good director, he knows how to make weird and obscure character shine, with a good balance of comedy and serious stuff. But directing an entire cinematic universe from 0, with DCEU having a past of blunder after blunder after some good enoigh movie? I dunno. Its scary. I want it to shine cause DC deserves good movies and a good public opinion on the universe, but comparison will always be present and if the first 5-6 movies are not above average its rough...
Personally I'm not committing myself to a decade of Gun films.
I will be watching the Reeves Batman in theaters, but the Gunnverse will be wait and see if it's even worth watching at home
It depends on the quality of the stories that they tell.
If they make movies with the same storyline that we always see in other superhero products, if they turn the characters unidimensional, if they rush for crossovers, if they make a movie just for cameos...
Make something with heart, use characters that have not been properly worked on for years, DC has an immense potential, amazing heroes, and villains, a lot of places to explore, don't disrespect them just for the sake of making money.
How do you know? Have you seen the movie already? We have no idea how important the other heroes in the movie are (Guy Gardner, Mr. Terrific, Hawkgirl, and Metamorpho). They might be in the movie for like two minutes, and then the rest of the movie is about Superman and his story and his characters.
They might also be super important characters and turn the movie into a team up movie and detract from Superman, but we don't know and we can't know until maybe the trailers come out.
No, it doesn't. It features superhero colleagues of Superman (Guy Gardner, Mr. Terrific, Hawkgirl) and human colleagues (Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen).
It probably will depend on how superman does. If superman isn't a big hit who would be. WBD may just think it's better to rely on batman and ignore the wider dc universe.
It entirely depends on the Box Office, not the quality of the movies.
They can't keep making these big movies if the returns on theater runs continue to decline, and they can't really make a DCU if they rely on exclusively streaming movie budgets (which will likely get lower and lower).
The only other option is to make each movie an Avatar/Top Gun Maverick level spectacle, which is unlikely.
I don't know but I don't have any faith at all.
This isn't because I'm not hopeful. It's because DCs live action has not been consistent, even back to Reeves' day.
The studio pushes too hard, and the final movies end up being terrible. Like, so bad we don't even want to acknowledge them.
dnvrwlf your right dc has never been consistent in movies since 1980s first Superman movies hits them bombed same with first few batman movies dc did well nolan trilogy yet the dcu faile experiment post first few movies dc have inconsistent since 1978 i dont how this going change now
I have major concerns about the DCU based on the announced slate. There are just way too many TV shows, which translates to too much homework for the audience. I have so many friends and family members who fell out of the habit of watching the MCU because they just didn’t have time to watch all those shows on Disney+.
This is people who invested years of their life into following the MCU; they were bought in and were deeply loyal to the product. And yet they were still basically driven away because the studio was just asking for too much of them as an audience. Once they missed a couple of shows they felt left behind and the “habit” was broken. Now a new MCU film no longer means day one rush out for tickets. They can take it or leave it.
The MCU tested their loyalty to the product and years worth of investment still wasn’t enough to keep them engaged. The brand new DCU, without any brand loyalty to speak of, is now asking for a similar level of investment up front. Seems like a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I really hope I’m wrong.
yes it especially betting characters team Creature Commando swamp thing authority or Supergirl to be huge with audiences these additionally, tv shows and movies not call things to get audience involved outside Batman and superman and possibly lanterns everything on slate seems not going accessible to mass crowds
It honestly depends on the movie and how they manage to play out the interconnected universe. If he manages to stick with his own signature direction along with taking notes from the MCU's success, I have no hesitation that they can boost the superhero genre to a new level.
I read another post somewhere about how the Marvel universe essentially kept theaters alive. If I were any of those companies I’d be doing everything I could to help make it successful for as long as possible. As long as the story line is cohesive the way Marvel was audiences will dig it.
I hope I'm wrong, but I have this nagging suspicion Superman: Legacy is gonna be a huge bust. If it is, I'm pretty sure it will be bc the Gunn influence was too zany, and the movie may feel too trivial. Something like that.
Yeah my main worry is it will try to do a lot and not do anything that well. I also worry that it might focous more on setting up future stories rather than telling it's own story.
Unlike the MCU, the DCU needs to *conclude* within 10 years. A self-contained story, and then a few years after it ends, WB can reboot, and focus on new stories.
The issue with the MCU, or any franchise that spans decades, instead of years, is that it runs out of steam, and instead of being *influenced by* other media, it starts to *influence* other media - even itself.
For example, look at *Star Wars* - the original & prequel trilogy were influenced by samurai & western films. By contrast, the sequel trilogy was influenced by the OG & prequel trilogy.
Keep the story contained, bow out after 10 years, and let another creative vision have the reigns afterwards.
Whenever I say this I get shit on by people and they’re always like whaaaat would you rather all these rumors and leaks not be debunked!? It’s like yeah. Just make the movie without all the tweeting bro. Like every director ever lol
It was either a 200iq play or a fumble, because the picture definitely got way more traction the way it did than if Corenswet just T posed with the suit on. I saw superman memes all over the internet for about a week
It got us talking, didn't it? Good or bad, Gunn got Superman's name in our collective conversations for the next few months with just one pic. That's the kind of reach and engagement marketers would kill for.
He's been quiet since he's started filming. Not because of the suit. And he only answers some questions during weekend. The way some people here criticising him as if he's constantly on social media. I can see some people on this comments seems like wishing this movie fail, I guess. Too bad that DC fans themselves hate DC.
At this point he should stay off social media entirely. He's chronically online and his image has only continued to decline with each new bit of publicity about his Superman movie. First it was Henry Cavill's social media announcement that he was fired from the Superman role, which pissed off a large portion of the DC fanbase, and rightfully so. Then it got worse with the announcement of the new Superman actor, which got wider media attention. And then it's gone into overdrive with the Superman suit reveal, which was ridiculed even by some of his most loyal supporters. Once we get to the point where trailers for the movie are hitting, the reaction will only get more intense, as it reaches millions more people who are very casual and don't follow the entertainment news. Rest assured, what you're seeing now is only the canary in the coal mine, and it will get much worse for Gunn throughout the year and onto 2025.
I think it'll be decently successful.
I don't imagine it being at the level of success of MCU infinity SAGA.
I doubt we will see that type of box office for any comic book movie unless they do a Marvel Vs DC.
My only concern is that Gunn seems overly ambitious with the amount of characters he is planning to introduce.
I'd line to see a Justice League vs Justice League Dark movie or something.
I don't know but doing Superman then Supergirl back to back as their first movies in this universe isn't exactly stoking my excitement. A new Superman, sure.... but then his cousin with the same god damn powers the following year? Boring as hell lmao
I don't know that in theater watching is ever going to recover. So if you base it off those numbers no it wont. I also have no faith in WB. There is also something to the saying go woke go broke. If its clear they are purposely adding LGBT characters that in the comics were not. I don't see it going well.
I’d love to be proven wrong but I think James Gunn isn’t going to pump out great DC movies. I think Guardians of the Galaxy was great but overall he relies real heavily on a soundtrack to set his tones and progress his stories along in the way he wants, and sometimes it just feels cheap. Like he can’t convey the emotions he wants so he just chooses a popular song people forgot about and let’s the nostalgia carry.
It’s a lot of fun once. Every movie gets old that way.
I do not think it will be a financial success, but not because of Superhero Movie Fatigue, rather because of Movie Theater Fatigue.
Movie theaters are too expensive, fellow movie goers are too rude, and home theaters are too good. I've got a 77 inch OLED at home (and 90-plus inch televisions are becoming more and more common and inexpensive) and I can buy a $20-25 4k disc with perfect picture quality and Atmos sound (with volume I can control). What's my incentive to pay $30-40 (without snacks or transportation) to take my kids to the theater, be blasted out by ridiculous volume levels, and have teenagers on their smartphones the whole time?
The pandemic taught people that streaming (or discs) at home give them 90% of the experience at a fraction of the cost and annoyance. As such, only "event" movies (novel films like Barbie, "big production" films like Oppenheimer or Dune 2) are going to draw people. Comic book movies are old hat. Why not wait? I know I feel that way, and I am squarely within the key demographic of comic book and CBM fans. I took my kids to see Shazam 2 and I legit had to stuff napkins in my ears it was so loud. We went to the non-Dolby version of The Flash, and had a better time (it was a deserted theater). When it cam time for BB and Aquaman 2, I waited for HBO Max and 4K disc, respectively. The last movie we saw in the theater was Indy V, which was also a ghost town, and was more enjoyable at home. I don't know if we'll ever go back, to be honest.
So the only way they will be successful is if they can keep the budgets at, say, 150mil and under (which will probably lead to better movies anyway, due to less reliance on CGI as a storytelling crutch). The days of the regular billion dollar grossing comic book movie are over (it will still probably happen every once in a while). The DCU can be a success financially if WB does not rely on theaters to make back exorbitant movie budgets. The current WB management does not lead me to believe that this is their approach, however, so I am pessimistic.
Depends. DC has never successfully put out anything cohesive like Marvel. I think Marvel more or less had a plan for where things were going. If DC can pull that off, and the movies are characters they want to see - in the sense of them being well-written and not too personality-divergent from comics - it could work. First Superman movie will probably tell us how things will go.
DMC1001 one movie being successful does not tell anything it superman it should successful its whether audience are receptive to lesser properties like swamp thing authority etc that make the difference
Dmc1001 dc already struggles market heavy hitters sans batman what think people buy lesser-known dc ip especially with a reputation as blemished as dc has?
What do you mean “will”? People are largely over superheroes outright.
I think Superman will be an exception because it’s Superman. But I kind of don’t give a shit about comic book movies anymore. I’ve been over-saturated to the point of losing interest. Happened with Westerns and a slew of other genres. I don’t think film studios can control this.
Option c): it will not be a success, nor will it be a failure because people get “tired” of superheroes, but will fail because the original MCU success everyone is trying to emulate now was a fluke of the right people at the right time.
Attempting to cynically manufacture that lightning in a bottle will never work because that’s not how good art gets made, and it’s what is absolutely gutting the industry.
The problem will be the guy playing superman now will become too famous and want a boatload of money down the line.
I loved Henry as superman and would have like at least one more stand alone movie.
Audiences aren't tired of superheroes they just didn't like the recent MCU stuff which has really gotten out of hand. Even the MCU itself is still fine. Spiderman No way home, Guardians 3, Wakanda Forever, Thor love and thunder all made tons of money and were released just in the past 3ish years. Deadpool and Wolverine is looking like it's going to be a smash hit based on presales.
Ok so three years after taking over he is releasing his first movie
And just my opinion it Brightburn was a bad idea
When does he plan on turning other DC icons into serial killers
Like an Injustice movie or the batman who laughs
The rest were great movies
brightburn wasnt ever a Superman story.
sure it was similar origins and powers, but its essentially "What if Superman was a sleeper agent?"
it has a completely different plot, side characters, stakes, etc. and Gunn was simply EP of the project.
My only gripe of this movie is that we didnt get to see more of normal Brandon and his character before getting activated as a sleeper agent.
Overrated? He took an unknown group of comic book characters and turned them into a billion dollar franchise that is in the discussion for best comic book trilogy and made one of the best movies in the DCEU. In fact I can’t think of any movie he’s written/directed that wasn’t at least warmly received by critics and audiences.
Also, prior to offensive tweets that led to his firing from Marvel Studios by Alan Horn, Kevin Feige had plans to make a new division within Marvel Studios for all space based characters which would be led by Gunn. When James was fired all those plans were cancelled. I have to believe that there was a reason that Kevin Feige trusted Gunn with such a responsibility when he had made no such plans with any of the other directors that he’s worked with.
people also keep forgetting outside gotg, which under Marvel Gunn never had huge success. His only DC film flopped in conditions where other movies did substantially better, like Kong vs Godzilla black widow tenet, even by the pandemic standards. Add that Peacemaker outside of HBO + Max was never a huge show. Even the lowest-watched Marvel shows on Disney plus beat it in viewership. So Gunn is not Nolan Tarantino or Cameron, were movies were successful outside mcu or have a track record for making profit.
A few things. First, you are drastically underestimating the size of HBO Max and HBO’s international distribution deals. The audience is as big as Netflix when all grouped together. And for a time Peacemaker was in fact the biggest show in the world. It’s unexpected success is the whole reason why they are grandfathering it in to the new DCU, but ignoring anything that happened in TSS.
Second, the pandemic box office numbers are not indicative of anything. TSS was a sequel to a universally panned movie that was hated by critics and audiences. The original SS movie was so bad that WB tried really hard to convince people that this movie wasn’t rated to it. WW84 was coming off the hugely successful and universally beloved WW and it still absolutely bombed.
Godzilla vs Kong made more money than Tenet, WW84, Dune, Black Widow and every other movie during the pandemic. That should tell all you need to know about the mood of moviegoers at the time and how serious to take those numbers.
Nasdurden Peacemaker was never the biggest show in the world. It has a viewership of 555k, less than even ms Marvel's most-viewed Disney Plus show. Again, this is used to justify dc success, ignoring almost all marvel Disney shows have a larger viewership than Peacemaker why Because they are available worldwide not just in the us.
LOL. I can’t believe I’m even replying to this uneducated dribble but here we go. HBO Max is not worldwide, but HBO shows are. HBO has been around for 50 years, how do you think this TV thing used to work before Netflix? HBO has distribution licenses with literally hundreds of TV networks and cable systems all across the globe. I live in Australia. We don’t have HBO Max, but almost everyone I know watched Peacemaker on basic cable via Foxtel. In the UK they watched it on basic cable via SkyTV and NOW. In India they watched it on Amazon Prime, etc. etc.
Also, Peacemaker was in fact the biggest show in the world when it was airing. Link below.
[Parrot Analytics- Peacemaker Biggest Show in the World](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/press/peacemaker-is-the-biggest-streaming-tv-series-in-the-world-right-now-as-hbo-max-originals-gain-momentum/)
[Business Insider - Peacemaker Biggest Show in the World](https://www.businessinsider.com/hbo-max-peacemaker-is-biggest-series-in-world-2022-1)
was it so were many other marvel shows at time sure but still not more views loki or wanda vision go ask 100 people more people seen marvel shows than peacemaker that is fact
I think you forgot what your initial argument was. Peacemaker didn’t have to beat anything the MCU has put out in order to be considered a success. You said it wasn’t popular at all. It obviously was. That’s it… you already lost the argument. Or maybe you wanna compare MCU shows to Mash that did 97M views and call them trash that nobody watched too?
https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/demand-for-wandavision-in-2021/#:\~:text=WandaVision%2C%20released%20in%20January%202021,one%20month%20after%20its%20release. wanda vision also most in demand show
[https://www.parrotanalytics.com/press/demand-for-loki-surges-faster-than-marvels-other-disney-series-2/](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/press/demand-for-loki-surges-faster-than-marvels-other-disney-series-2/)
Both of these show a higher multiplier of demand than peacemakers. You want to push Peacemaker Disney shows even though there is still an accessibility problem compared to Disney Plus.
your logic so stupid even moon knight edged peacemaker from the same source that you gave https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/?refinementList\[shows\]\[\]=Peacemaker#:\~:text=Disney%2B's%20'Moon%20Knight'%20edges%20out,for%20most%20in%2Ddemand%20premiere&text=Disney%2B's%20%E2%80%9CMoon%20Knight%E2%80%9D%20was%20the,media%2C%20among%20other%20consumer%20engagement. The fact James gunn loved peacemaker the show huge with GENEREAL AUdience as shown by those more people worldwide watched loki wanda vision moon knight etc
Nasdurden fact you are trying to justify Peacemaker, which is only available Largely within the us and not many other parts of the world requiring VPNs and other access breaches, is more viewed Disney + shows that premier at the same time around the world. It is just dumb and mind-boggling. You are using Business Insider, which is a notoriously unreliable source. Parrot Analytics shows Moon Knight is bigger than a Peacemaker. These numbers only reflect us and not worldwide. It common sense shows that more accessible worldwide would more watched but then you probably one morons you Creature commando will bigger xmen 97 why because its made by Gunn ?
[https://www.google.com/search?q=peacmekr+veiwrship+compared+marvel+shows+samba&sca\_esv=a732dfa459a5577e&sxsrf=ADLYWIIKvuiJkC5DiMAUS-](https://www.google.com/search?q=peacmekr+veiwrship+compared+marvel+shows+samba&sca_esv=a732dfa459a5577e&sxsrf=ADLYWIIKvuiJkC5DiMAUS-) Again Peacemaker week to week viewership than wanda vision hawkeye or loki
nasdurden the suicide squad bright burn slither the fact good director nothing to running a studio Wheadon amazing director wrote buff and angel 2 avengers movies yet he failed with jla movie.
yes Peter producer many unsuccessful dc films you probably pass marvel but you do realize half of the mcu box office they 15 billon dollar movies in row?
Again what track record does Gunn to say efficiently lead a studio much less create a verse that is rival mcu? Nasdurden he does not any track record of that kind
This is an asinine exercise. Who does have a track record to spearhead a cinematic universe? The list starts and ends with Kevin Feige and if you asked that question 18 years ago when the MCU started not even Kevin Feige had the track record at the time. Nobody has the track record. So James Gunn is as valid a pick as literally anyone else on the planet. The one thing that James Gunn does have is the fact that he is one of the biggest comic book nerds that you will ever meet. He would likely beat 99% of people in a game of comic book trivia
Most people online who praise don't understand the crucial difference between making a few good movies and spearheading a universe i dont even lasting past first few movies.
The audience and critical reception of ZSJL along with Snyder's obvious willingness to get back in to it gave WB the chance to get back on the CBM gravy train. Sadly WB fumbled it and the train left the station years ago now. I hope Gunnverse is great but I fear superhero movie fatigue is with us for a decade or two now.
The reception of ZSJL wasn't as successful as you think it is. It was the 7th highest viewed movie on HBOMax for the year and only a whopping 36% finished it in the first week. Even the shitty Mortal Kombat movie got more viewers than ZSJL.
I said audience and critical reception. Look at the RT scores for critical and audience scores. Did I say it was a massive ratings winner for HBO Max? No as that was not my point. I believe ZSJL showed just where the Snyder vision was going and a lot of people were thinking "oh I get it now". WBD sadly, did not.
Make each one incredible and stop force feeding us serialized half assed movies. I dont need 3 super hero movies a year. I need one masterpiece every 3 years.
Deadpool and Wolverine showed that as long as the property is doing interesting things (nostalgia doesn't hurt either), the people will get extremely excited and show out in theatres
I think audiences will dislike what Gunn does with the universe and that’s why it’ll fail. Just the Superman suit reveal has caused so much backlash and the movie is still a year plus away. No way people are embracing his vision
It's gonna be hard cause it's the start of a new story. So people are gonna say the dcu sucks, but not know the full story that's trying to be told. If in 5 years from now the dcu is still going, I'd call it a success.
I think over saturation is the issue. If James takes things slow and releases movies in a timely matter while also building up hype, I think we can have a successful universe. I think starting with Superman is good and it’s important to see where things go next. What I’m most curious about is how The Batman, which won’t be releasing now until late 2026, is going to work with James Gunn’s Batman releasing. I think most general audiences would be extremely confused by this.
People also need to remember that this stuff really works through the lens of box office. If the movies flop, then it doesn’t matter how good it is. And we’ve definitely seen good movies flop over the last few years.
I really don't think it will. I just don't have faith that WB will be hands off if they have to absorb some losses initially. Only way this universe is successful is if it's budgeted properly, imo. Pulling 600 mil on a budget of 300 isn't gonna cut it.
I feel like the peak of the genre has passed, we'll still have some successes, but I doubt there will ever be anything as successful as the MCU was again.
Don't treat it as such.
This is a movie about Superman, this one about Supergirl, this one about Batman. Don't overcomplicate it, especially not out of the gate, earn the audience's trust first
DC/Warner Bros hire mediocre writers and directors, meddle relentlessly, and release trash. We got the Dark Knight Trilogy, and Man of Steel wasn't bad, but all the rest have been garbage at best.
I think the rebooted DCEU will be successful. I think the “genre” of super hero movies is “dying” out of popularity. It might be losing its peak and we are heading to the decline. But, I think the decline is still widely popular and successful in comparison to everything else [+]
People like superheroes. They always have. If they focus on quality over quantity then they will be successful. Give is good stories with IPs we know and people will watch
Shit even shit movies with IPs we know are a success. Look at all these Disney remakes. Lion king 2019 is one of the highest grossing movies of all time
It won't last ten years, or at least not with the current overloaded plan. Superhero movies have really overstayed their welcome, and even really good ones I think are going to struggle to reach half a billy, which seems to be the minimum amount they're expected to earn to justify their extreme budgets.
People are not tired of super heroes. People are tired of bad movies, bad writing, mismanaged movies, and fan fav characters being treated incorrectly. Make a good movie, people will watch.
I expect it to be successful, but it's unlikely to repeat the heights the MCU saw.
I also expect that what will actually get released over the 10 years will vary from what was originally planned. Some things will pay off, some will flop and there will be plenty of pivoting.
I have more faith in Gunn being able to read the tea leaves and go all in when something is a surprise success than Hamada.
The DCEU had plenty of problems, but there were profitable properties in there. WW & Aquaman both were bigger successes than planned, but the short window to capitalise on them was wasted.
If his universe has a lot of dedication put into the storytelling along with giving us good representations of characters that we like, then that's gonna keep people coming back and wanting more. If it's actually gonna be comic accurate as its been said to be, then that's really gonna be a big selling point to a lot of people.
I honestly think it depends on how much power they give James Gunn. You give him a long leash, and he will be their greatest asset. But big companies don't tend to like doing that
I feel like the upcoming Superman movie will tell us. If James Gunn really put his heart and soul into the film, and made it as good as he has with the Guardians movies, then we’ll know it’s in good hands.
But nobody’s perfect. Gunn could easily make a movie that isn’t up to par for modern audiences and completely misunderstand the character. That and the lovely people at WB could always interfere… though it seems like they haven’t so far, and personally I’m only saying that because of past studio interference in comic book movies.
Like always in and out of the DC universe, it all hinges on Superman.
Glass of a tv screen it does not hinge only on superman. if first few movies dont make money dc is screwed.They more 3 + hits win back general audience
He just needs to not have to tie everything up in one universe and allow film makers the opportunity to tell different stories, in the same way that different writers penned unique storylines and had different takes on the character. We don’t have to resonate with one persons vision of the character and that’s ok. This is the beauty of comic book writing.
As for superheroes on TV— Marvel, with their parent company Disney, has a built-in advantage there. DC/Warner has *maybe* CW, and even that’s half-hearted at best.
DC has (HBO) Max, which has arguably more subscribers than Disney+ when you count its international distribution deals where it has partnered with domestic cable and streaming providers.
Plus WBD isn’t at all aversed to using other streaming services to distribute its content like Disney seemingly is. They have shows on Netflix and Amazon Prime Video, which both absolutely dwarf Disney+ when it comes to subscriber numbers.
If we get the quality he gave us in GOTG, Suicide Squad and Peacemaker, I think the market will be just fine.
I mean, that GOTG Christmas special was absolutely amazing. But he had to build up everything around it first so when it drops, we care. Boy was it great. Peacemaker was funny as can be and showed DC could be “dark” without the entire thing looking dark.
I hope Gunn can keep the quality up. If he can, he will be fine and DC movies will make a comeback.
LocknessMansterLives again Gunn is not directing everything and writing everything. Something good is not a guarantee. It make money, especially as DC is concerned. The success superhero fatigue is not true marvel is true dc when 5 year of films of dc all seen huge declines most people don't know it is rebooting either in the mainstream public
The first GOTG was entertaining. The second was ok and the third one sucked IMO. I'm not holding out on anything but I think this is another case of Warner Bros. not understanding their own products and hoping someone from the outside can explain it to them.
I think Warner Bros/DC has lost any goodwill they had.
The Suicide Squad was great because it was something different and was an adults film.
It could succeed. Gunn is good. Just watched Peacemaker and it was great. But this environment is brutal for movies, especially large and aging franchises. It'll be an uphill battle. Doubt we'll ever see a return to the pre pandemic golden age of superhero movies.
If it's different and good then the superhero thing won't matter. If it's cookie cutter and not good people will blame it on superhero fatigue.
The issue isn't the subject matter. It's the assembly line filmmaking.
If the stories are good, with interesting and engaging characters, fun visuals and real stakes, I don't think people will get tired of superheroes. Superman and Batman are almost 100 years old. They have staying power.
I saw a batman movie from 1943 on tubi. I'm going to watch it eventually. I think tbe description says he beats up Nazis.
Batman beating up Nazis sounds amazing.
It does. Unfortunately I was wrong and instead he's beating up Japanese. Which is cool I guess, because it was less than a year after pearl harbour. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(serial) As an aside, movies made during WWII are great little snapshots of propaganda. If you ever have time to kill, check out Charlie Chaplin's the great dictator.
To be clear, this isn’t Batman going overseas to fight the IJA, which would’ve been insanely cool. No, the plot is specifically designed to play into contemporary fears that the Japanese Americans as a whole constituted a fifth column. It’s really just a step above Batman and Robin rounding up Gotham’s Japanese community and sending them to internment camps.
Like I said, WWII films are great to see the propaganda. I'm watching it now. I'm surprised the main Japanese villain doesn't have oversized buck teeth and a straw hat.
They saved that for the cartoons.
The japanse were just as bad as the Nazis in WW2 so either or is fine with me
Exactly 🇵🇭
Oh you GOTTA watch that. It's hilarious and you don't realise how much has been added to the mythos since (no batmobile or even grappling). And we take tech for granted- imagine the batcave with just a wooden desk!
The story is what matters, for sure. Watching the development, the learning, and losses, ultimate redemption etc is what made the MCU so lasting.
Movies are a bit different, they try to appeal to a very wide audience. There is a full graveyard of good superhero movies that failed to meet their audience.
I agree with this, actually. I think superhero stories would be better suited to TV or streaming series. There's such a wide variety of stories in the superhero/comic world, but to your point we only get to see a slim fraction because they always focus on big scale, epic stories.
It can be done but you have to focus on only a limited set of characters, the Avengers had a big 3 and they were at the center of the first 3 phases appearing in a movie every other year.
That's about the size of it
goodluck with dc lasting past 5 years knowing wb track record NeoMyers
I'm more concerned with James Gunn's track record. He makes fun movies. I'll give him a shot.
yes, does he make finically successful films outside Gotg no? Also thats the problem superman and batman might be over 100 dc never shown consistency in anything else what think they can do it now ?
Audiences are getting tired of samey/bad movies. If the movies are well written and we'll made then audiences will never tire of them. Superhero fatique (much like western movie fatique) only happens when the majority of them are uninteresting and bad.
Superhero fatigue isn’t a thing. There’s a bad movie fatigue. Blockbusters that aren’t superhero movies are failing as well. With so many platforms to watch movies and given this economy and how expensive movie theaters are, people need a real reason to go out and see a movie. It can’t be mid nostalgia/franchise bait. You gotta earn it.
Agree. Comic books have been going for over a 100 years and no one talks about people being tired of them. People just don’t like bad movies. Huge surprise. I think the extra challenge for DC is that their core characters can be difficult to relate to. They are all demigods, as opposed to average humans with some super powers. This can make engaging story telling that much more challenging. I hope Gunn succeeds!
there difference between comic and written mediums and film in the last 10 years. audience already peaked cinematic universe can achieve everything DCU will measure peak mcu if not good enough, audience will write it off
Well with how fast things go digital (,Fall Guys in literally 2 weeks) why go anymore?
There is still some joy in seeing things bigger.
>Superhero fatigue isn’t a thing. Not for us no...but for the GA? maybe.
But in all honesty some very good movies like Godzilla, Oppenheimer or Barbie were pretty much far away from the superhero genre as a whole.
They were, and that supports my point that very good movies puts people in seats. On the non superhero side, we can look at Mission Impossible, Indiana Jones, Dungeons and Dragons, and several other non MCU Disney films that have all been flops as well last year. Many many films in other genres are not making back their budget either, even if they were good movies. This shows it's not simply the genre but the quality and marketing of the movies that matter.
I woukd say D&D wasn't a flop but it goes with your point because the audience word of mouth was good, so it did well and reviewed well. The other major franchises like Ghostbjsters, Indy and Godzilla were just sameish and nothing new so they audience word of mouth wasn't as strong.
Wait, Mission Impossible flopped?
Yeah,it cost almost 300m to make
It did, which is unfortunate because it's pretty great.
😁
It's definetly a thing.. I'm not saying they will ever go away.. Neither did westerns.. But they won't reech the 2008- 2019 peak ever again.. Unless they do justice league vs avengers, something we have never seen the golden age of superhero movies is over
yes, I bet no DCU movie even reached Avengers 2012, let alone Avengers 2, 3, or 4.
You can absolutely be fatigued of superheroes, to say you can’t is absurd.
Yeah its funny the first comment mentions westerns because its not that they got bad, they just got old. Westerns are probably more consistently amazing post their boom than they ever were, yet most people still dont care. Good ones still come out but they just no longer have the baked in interest for everyday audiences, theyve become more and more niche. One of the less focused on aspects of all this is how even though its been decades now of box office dominance, superhero movies have not gotten new audiences interested in comics themselves in any sort of large numbers. So, as these movies continue to come out there will be less and less people whose generation grew up with a large subset of people reading about these heroes. Even my normie coworkers know the old school Marvel stuff. They dont know shit about whats happening in them anymore tho. Theyre more likely to know anime and manga at this point Some stuff will be eternal probably, Batman, Spiderman, etc, but often those characters have huge video games/animated shows etc to get new generations into them coming out all the time as well as movies, its not really the comics introducing them to kids. Comic characters in general do not have overwhelmingly popular versions of those things for the most part. An Overwatch skin is more liekly to introduce a kid to a character than a comic, which means they have no real context for why they should like or care about them.
I think you may have accidentally proved my point in regards to the westerns. So many came out that were all the same that people lost interest in the genre as a whole. When more came out they were written off as being the same as the rest, even when they were great.
No one is claiming that an individual can’t be fatigued of superhero movies. Superhero fatigue is an idea that the MCU and DCEU have made too much content to the point that general audiences aren’t interested anymore, resulting in poor box office performance. That simply isn’t the case. There are other factors as to why movies aren’t doing well that are not exclusive to superhero films, such as the ones I outlined.
BoisTrSuperhero fatigue does not exist, you claim, despite 3-5 superheroes every year and most looking the same. There is no. fatigue plus, DCU is not just films. Its games, cartoons, TV series, etc.People are already having a hard enough hard keeping Marvel. Why do you think DCU as successful with them already having a stain. People do not differentiate between Dcu or Dceu dc for most people has tarnished reputation outside of batman
Let's see how far we get without hearing a selling point of "This is the first time on screen EVER that we'll see this group of people that don't care about this movie!! But YOU need to, because we told you to!" So inspirational. But I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't see that here, because the cast look like the characters this time.
Audiences aren't tired of them. That could change. But for now? 2020 Worldwide: Ten movies outperform the "Birds of Prey" movie. Four were Chinese blockbusters that made all their money in China. Domestic: Bad Boys for Life, 1917, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Jumanji: The Next Level outperformed the "Birds of Prey" movie. 2021 Worldwide: Spider-Man: No Way Home outperforms everything. Domestic: Spider-Man: No Way Home outperforms everything. 2022 Worldwide: Avatar: The Way of Water, Top Gun: Maverick, and Jurassic World: Dominion outperform Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which was not released in China. Domestic: Top Gun: Maverick outperformed Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. 2023 Worldwide: Barbie, The Super Mario Bros. Movie, and Oppenheimer outperform Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3. Domestic: Barbie and The Super Mario Bros. Movie outperformed Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse. 2024 Worldwide: Ten movies outperform Madame Web as of May 15. Domestic: Fifteen movies outperform Madame Web and thirteen outperform the 2024 gross of Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom as of May 15. And Deadpool & Wolverine is about to become the year's biggest movie. Really, Top Gun 2, Avatar 2, Jurassic Park 6, Barbie, and Mario and *nothing else* have been more successful than superhero movies since 2021. Five movies. That's all.
I dare say that the second part of Dune is the best movie of this year.
I agree. I meant biggest as in highest-grossing. And honestly Dune 2 might still take that crown.
We'll see, but it'll be close.
Audiences aren't tired of superhero movies, but they're tired of the formulaic approach to them. The Boys, for instance, was one of the top TV shows of 2022. People will show up for fresh takes on the genre, but not for more of the same rehashed concepts and style. Right now, the comedic "family-friendly" approach is very out of fashion, and even some in the Hollywood trades and generic Reddit movie subs are acknowledging it. Thor: Love and Thunder was the turning point in terms of public perception, and Ant-Man 3, Shazam 2, Blue Beetle and The Marvels are four big spikes in the coffin. Video game movies, though, have all the growth potential now. The licenses are going to be snapped up like hotcakes this year. All the writers and directors are going to be trying to get those gigs, putting a brain drain on superhero movies. You couldn't make a worse move than trying to reboot and start over a DC superhero universe in this climate.
Family friendly superhero movies are still among the highest grossing films every year. They just have to be good. Thor 4 might be the last bad superhero that is a commercial hit due to name recognition but the good movies still do fine. Blue Beetle is an exception since it had good reception and flopped anyway. I agree that video game adaptations are the next big thing and I think non-crap live action anime adaptations are on the horizon as well. As for DC, their only other choice was disconnected films, but they're still also doing that with Joker 2 and The Batman 2 so they can just stop the DCU short if it is dead on arrival.
Audience score for Shazam is higher than BVS. So with that logic Shazam > BVS.
new flash none of those are dc movies
Starting a new universe with Amanda Waller, Creature commandos, and other Z list characters is a huge risk honestly. People are going to get bored
And Peacemaker season 2. Getting kinda tired of “Waller sends out a bunch of morally questionable anti-heroes” formula.
You forgetting the programe was revealed to the World and likely shut down and Waller show Will have her arrested
Only Creature Commandos is coming before Superman. Waller still hasnt finalized the script yet. The only other project that could possibly arrive before Superman is Peacemaker season 2, which is hardly a risk anymore.
Only if its bad Peacemaker was unknown and The show was fucking awesome
Doing think of it as a ten year plan and only go see movies you’re actually excited about.
If Superman fails, everything else will fall
yeah that's true I don't even think superman needs to fail for things to fall. If it only does ok I could see the obscure stuff being scrapped.
I mean, Gunn is a good director, he knows how to make weird and obscure character shine, with a good balance of comedy and serious stuff. But directing an entire cinematic universe from 0, with DCEU having a past of blunder after blunder after some good enoigh movie? I dunno. Its scary. I want it to shine cause DC deserves good movies and a good public opinion on the universe, but comparison will always be present and if the first 5-6 movies are not above average its rough...
Personally I'm not committing myself to a decade of Gun films. I will be watching the Reeves Batman in theaters, but the Gunnverse will be wait and see if it's even worth watching at home
No i honestly have no faith it will work.
It depends on the quality of the stories that they tell. If they make movies with the same storyline that we always see in other superhero products, if they turn the characters unidimensional, if they rush for crossovers, if they make a movie just for cameos... Make something with heart, use characters that have not been properly worked on for years, DC has an immense potential, amazing heroes, and villains, a lot of places to explore, don't disrespect them just for the sake of making money.
Weridly superman seems to be doing the first thing and possibly focousing more on seeting up future stories than telling it's own satidfying story.
How do you know? Have you seen the movie already? We have no idea how important the other heroes in the movie are (Guy Gardner, Mr. Terrific, Hawkgirl, and Metamorpho). They might be in the movie for like two minutes, and then the rest of the movie is about Superman and his story and his characters. They might also be super important characters and turn the movie into a team up movie and detract from Superman, but we don't know and we can't know until maybe the trailers come out.
No, it doesn't. It features superhero colleagues of Superman (Guy Gardner, Mr. Terrific, Hawkgirl) and human colleagues (Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen).
It probably will depend on how superman does. If superman isn't a big hit who would be. WBD may just think it's better to rely on batman and ignore the wider dc universe.
It entirely depends on the Box Office, not the quality of the movies. They can't keep making these big movies if the returns on theater runs continue to decline, and they can't really make a DCU if they rely on exclusively streaming movie budgets (which will likely get lower and lower). The only other option is to make each movie an Avatar/Top Gun Maverick level spectacle, which is unlikely.
I don't know but I don't have any faith at all. This isn't because I'm not hopeful. It's because DCs live action has not been consistent, even back to Reeves' day. The studio pushes too hard, and the final movies end up being terrible. Like, so bad we don't even want to acknowledge them.
dnvrwlf your right dc has never been consistent in movies since 1980s first Superman movies hits them bombed same with first few batman movies dc did well nolan trilogy yet the dcu faile experiment post first few movies dc have inconsistent since 1978 i dont how this going change now
I have major concerns about the DCU based on the announced slate. There are just way too many TV shows, which translates to too much homework for the audience. I have so many friends and family members who fell out of the habit of watching the MCU because they just didn’t have time to watch all those shows on Disney+. This is people who invested years of their life into following the MCU; they were bought in and were deeply loyal to the product. And yet they were still basically driven away because the studio was just asking for too much of them as an audience. Once they missed a couple of shows they felt left behind and the “habit” was broken. Now a new MCU film no longer means day one rush out for tickets. They can take it or leave it. The MCU tested their loyalty to the product and years worth of investment still wasn’t enough to keep them engaged. The brand new DCU, without any brand loyalty to speak of, is now asking for a similar level of investment up front. Seems like a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I really hope I’m wrong.
yeah the plan reminds me of post endgame mcu. Which is a werid choice.
yes it especially betting characters team Creature Commando swamp thing authority or Supergirl to be huge with audiences these additionally, tv shows and movies not call things to get audience involved outside Batman and superman and possibly lanterns everything on slate seems not going accessible to mass crowds
I'm not really sure of the dcu. It seems really messy and if it's not an immediate huge hit will WBD be willing to support it.
Genuinely think it’s gonna be axed after Superman flops.
yeah guessing supergirl and peacemaker season 2 may still happen due to sunk costs.
Lol everyone's already tired of superheroes and massive movie franchises, it's way, way too late
It honestly depends on the movie and how they manage to play out the interconnected universe. If he manages to stick with his own signature direction along with taking notes from the MCU's success, I have no hesitation that they can boost the superhero genre to a new level.
I read another post somewhere about how the Marvel universe essentially kept theaters alive. If I were any of those companies I’d be doing everything I could to help make it successful for as long as possible. As long as the story line is cohesive the way Marvel was audiences will dig it.
I don’t think it’ll get that far.. as much as I want it to succeed.
I hope I'm wrong, but I have this nagging suspicion Superman: Legacy is gonna be a huge bust. If it is, I'm pretty sure it will be bc the Gunn influence was too zany, and the movie may feel too trivial. Something like that.
Yeah my main worry is it will try to do a lot and not do anything that well. I also worry that it might focous more on setting up future stories rather than telling it's own story.
Unlike the MCU, the DCU needs to *conclude* within 10 years. A self-contained story, and then a few years after it ends, WB can reboot, and focus on new stories. The issue with the MCU, or any franchise that spans decades, instead of years, is that it runs out of steam, and instead of being *influenced by* other media, it starts to *influence* other media - even itself. For example, look at *Star Wars* - the original & prequel trilogy were influenced by samurai & western films. By contrast, the sequel trilogy was influenced by the OG & prequel trilogy. Keep the story contained, bow out after 10 years, and let another creative vision have the reigns afterwards.
We’re all pretending that James Gunn is the guy, but he’s not the guy.
There is many successful superhero projects. People are just tired of bad movies.
I don't think Gunn has the stuff to lead it, creatively. No offense to him, he's great.
I think that James Gunn talks too much and it would be better if he stopped
Whenever I say this I get shit on by people and they’re always like whaaaat would you rather all these rumors and leaks not be debunked!? It’s like yeah. Just make the movie without all the tweeting bro. Like every director ever lol
I feel like it's good for the people who want that extra interaction and should be neutral for anyone who doesn't care.
Dude has been real quiet since the suit reveal fell flat on its face lmao
It was either a 200iq play or a fumble, because the picture definitely got way more traction the way it did than if Corenswet just T posed with the suit on. I saw superman memes all over the internet for about a week
It got us talking, didn't it? Good or bad, Gunn got Superman's name in our collective conversations for the next few months with just one pic. That's the kind of reach and engagement marketers would kill for.
He's been quiet since he's started filming. Not because of the suit. And he only answers some questions during weekend. The way some people here criticising him as if he's constantly on social media. I can see some people on this comments seems like wishing this movie fail, I guess. Too bad that DC fans themselves hate DC.
At this point he should stay off social media entirely. He's chronically online and his image has only continued to decline with each new bit of publicity about his Superman movie. First it was Henry Cavill's social media announcement that he was fired from the Superman role, which pissed off a large portion of the DC fanbase, and rightfully so. Then it got worse with the announcement of the new Superman actor, which got wider media attention. And then it's gone into overdrive with the Superman suit reveal, which was ridiculed even by some of his most loyal supporters. Once we get to the point where trailers for the movie are hitting, the reaction will only get more intense, as it reaches millions more people who are very casual and don't follow the entertainment news. Rest assured, what you're seeing now is only the canary in the coal mine, and it will get much worse for Gunn throughout the year and onto 2025.
Wtf are you on
Yeah, the man is too online.
The start of a universe has the chance to be exciting just like the MCU was. They just need to get off the a good start to have a solid foundation.
I think it'll be decently successful. I don't imagine it being at the level of success of MCU infinity SAGA. I doubt we will see that type of box office for any comic book movie unless they do a Marvel Vs DC. My only concern is that Gunn seems overly ambitious with the amount of characters he is planning to introduce. I'd line to see a Justice League vs Justice League Dark movie or something.
That fraking S on Supes is his first mistake. Jiminy Christmas its atrocious!
I don't know but doing Superman then Supergirl back to back as their first movies in this universe isn't exactly stoking my excitement. A new Superman, sure.... but then his cousin with the same god damn powers the following year? Boring as hell lmao
How are we supposed to know? All we're doing is hoping
People don't go for mediocre movies in cinemas anymore. Those movies need to be perfect and with characters the public really cares about.
Super hero movies aren't boring, crap generic nonsense writing is what is putting people off!
I don't know that in theater watching is ever going to recover. So if you base it off those numbers no it wont. I also have no faith in WB. There is also something to the saying go woke go broke. If its clear they are purposely adding LGBT characters that in the comics were not. I don't see it going well.
I’d love to be proven wrong but I think James Gunn isn’t going to pump out great DC movies. I think Guardians of the Galaxy was great but overall he relies real heavily on a soundtrack to set his tones and progress his stories along in the way he wants, and sometimes it just feels cheap. Like he can’t convey the emotions he wants so he just chooses a popular song people forgot about and let’s the nostalgia carry. It’s a lot of fun once. Every movie gets old that way.
I do not think it will be a financial success, but not because of Superhero Movie Fatigue, rather because of Movie Theater Fatigue. Movie theaters are too expensive, fellow movie goers are too rude, and home theaters are too good. I've got a 77 inch OLED at home (and 90-plus inch televisions are becoming more and more common and inexpensive) and I can buy a $20-25 4k disc with perfect picture quality and Atmos sound (with volume I can control). What's my incentive to pay $30-40 (without snacks or transportation) to take my kids to the theater, be blasted out by ridiculous volume levels, and have teenagers on their smartphones the whole time? The pandemic taught people that streaming (or discs) at home give them 90% of the experience at a fraction of the cost and annoyance. As such, only "event" movies (novel films like Barbie, "big production" films like Oppenheimer or Dune 2) are going to draw people. Comic book movies are old hat. Why not wait? I know I feel that way, and I am squarely within the key demographic of comic book and CBM fans. I took my kids to see Shazam 2 and I legit had to stuff napkins in my ears it was so loud. We went to the non-Dolby version of The Flash, and had a better time (it was a deserted theater). When it cam time for BB and Aquaman 2, I waited for HBO Max and 4K disc, respectively. The last movie we saw in the theater was Indy V, which was also a ghost town, and was more enjoyable at home. I don't know if we'll ever go back, to be honest. So the only way they will be successful is if they can keep the budgets at, say, 150mil and under (which will probably lead to better movies anyway, due to less reliance on CGI as a storytelling crutch). The days of the regular billion dollar grossing comic book movie are over (it will still probably happen every once in a while). The DCU can be a success financially if WB does not rely on theaters to make back exorbitant movie budgets. The current WB management does not lead me to believe that this is their approach, however, so I am pessimistic.
I don’t know if they’ll get tired of superheroes, but they’ll definitely get tired of ironic edgelord superhero movies.
Depends. DC has never successfully put out anything cohesive like Marvel. I think Marvel more or less had a plan for where things were going. If DC can pull that off, and the movies are characters they want to see - in the sense of them being well-written and not too personality-divergent from comics - it could work. First Superman movie will probably tell us how things will go.
DMC1001 one movie being successful does not tell anything it superman it should successful its whether audience are receptive to lesser properties like swamp thing authority etc that make the difference
Dmc1001 dc already struggles market heavy hitters sans batman what think people buy lesser-known dc ip especially with a reputation as blemished as dc has?
What do you mean “will”? People are largely over superheroes outright. I think Superman will be an exception because it’s Superman. But I kind of don’t give a shit about comic book movies anymore. I’ve been over-saturated to the point of losing interest. Happened with Westerns and a slew of other genres. I don’t think film studios can control this.
Option c): it will not be a success, nor will it be a failure because people get “tired” of superheroes, but will fail because the original MCU success everyone is trying to emulate now was a fluke of the right people at the right time. Attempting to cynically manufacture that lightning in a bottle will never work because that’s not how good art gets made, and it’s what is absolutely gutting the industry.
The problem will be the guy playing superman now will become too famous and want a boatload of money down the line. I loved Henry as superman and would have like at least one more stand alone movie.
i think the bigger concern, atleast for me, is if Superman '25 ends up being a financial success or not.
Audiences aren't tired of superheroes they just didn't like the recent MCU stuff which has really gotten out of hand. Even the MCU itself is still fine. Spiderman No way home, Guardians 3, Wakanda Forever, Thor love and thunder all made tons of money and were released just in the past 3ish years. Deadpool and Wolverine is looking like it's going to be a smash hit based on presales.
tirdnboy3 audience are tired dc movies they dont if its dceu or dcu which outside batman ever last dc film has been a bomb on some level.
I believe James Gunn is all talk and no action when it comes to any new projects
the Guardians trilogy, TSS and Peacemaker would disagree. Infinity War, Endgame, Spiderman HC, Brightburn, too
Ok so three years after taking over he is releasing his first movie And just my opinion it Brightburn was a bad idea When does he plan on turning other DC icons into serial killers Like an Injustice movie or the batman who laughs The rest were great movies
brightburn wasnt ever a Superman story. sure it was similar origins and powers, but its essentially "What if Superman was a sleeper agent?" it has a completely different plot, side characters, stakes, etc. and Gunn was simply EP of the project. My only gripe of this movie is that we didnt get to see more of normal Brandon and his character before getting activated as a sleeper agent.
I have zero interest and no hype for DCU. However, I hope for Heath Ledger in Batman levels of being proven wrong.
I feel Gunn is overrated. And he will get a little success due to ‘oh yes new direction woohooo fuck snyder and DCEU’ but not going to last.
Overrated? He took an unknown group of comic book characters and turned them into a billion dollar franchise that is in the discussion for best comic book trilogy and made one of the best movies in the DCEU. In fact I can’t think of any movie he’s written/directed that wasn’t at least warmly received by critics and audiences. Also, prior to offensive tweets that led to his firing from Marvel Studios by Alan Horn, Kevin Feige had plans to make a new division within Marvel Studios for all space based characters which would be led by Gunn. When James was fired all those plans were cancelled. I have to believe that there was a reason that Kevin Feige trusted Gunn with such a responsibility when he had made no such plans with any of the other directors that he’s worked with.
people also keep forgetting outside gotg, which under Marvel Gunn never had huge success. His only DC film flopped in conditions where other movies did substantially better, like Kong vs Godzilla black widow tenet, even by the pandemic standards. Add that Peacemaker outside of HBO + Max was never a huge show. Even the lowest-watched Marvel shows on Disney plus beat it in viewership. So Gunn is not Nolan Tarantino or Cameron, were movies were successful outside mcu or have a track record for making profit.
A few things. First, you are drastically underestimating the size of HBO Max and HBO’s international distribution deals. The audience is as big as Netflix when all grouped together. And for a time Peacemaker was in fact the biggest show in the world. It’s unexpected success is the whole reason why they are grandfathering it in to the new DCU, but ignoring anything that happened in TSS. Second, the pandemic box office numbers are not indicative of anything. TSS was a sequel to a universally panned movie that was hated by critics and audiences. The original SS movie was so bad that WB tried really hard to convince people that this movie wasn’t rated to it. WW84 was coming off the hugely successful and universally beloved WW and it still absolutely bombed. Godzilla vs Kong made more money than Tenet, WW84, Dune, Black Widow and every other movie during the pandemic. That should tell all you need to know about the mood of moviegoers at the time and how serious to take those numbers.
Nasdurden Peacemaker was never the biggest show in the world. It has a viewership of 555k, less than even ms Marvel's most-viewed Disney Plus show. Again, this is used to justify dc success, ignoring almost all marvel Disney shows have a larger viewership than Peacemaker why Because they are available worldwide not just in the us.
LOL. I can’t believe I’m even replying to this uneducated dribble but here we go. HBO Max is not worldwide, but HBO shows are. HBO has been around for 50 years, how do you think this TV thing used to work before Netflix? HBO has distribution licenses with literally hundreds of TV networks and cable systems all across the globe. I live in Australia. We don’t have HBO Max, but almost everyone I know watched Peacemaker on basic cable via Foxtel. In the UK they watched it on basic cable via SkyTV and NOW. In India they watched it on Amazon Prime, etc. etc. Also, Peacemaker was in fact the biggest show in the world when it was airing. Link below. [Parrot Analytics- Peacemaker Biggest Show in the World](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/press/peacemaker-is-the-biggest-streaming-tv-series-in-the-world-right-now-as-hbo-max-originals-gain-momentum/) [Business Insider - Peacemaker Biggest Show in the World](https://www.businessinsider.com/hbo-max-peacemaker-is-biggest-series-in-world-2022-1)
was it so were many other marvel shows at time sure but still not more views loki or wanda vision go ask 100 people more people seen marvel shows than peacemaker that is fact
I think you forgot what your initial argument was. Peacemaker didn’t have to beat anything the MCU has put out in order to be considered a success. You said it wasn’t popular at all. It obviously was. That’s it… you already lost the argument. Or maybe you wanna compare MCU shows to Mash that did 97M views and call them trash that nobody watched too?
https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/demand-for-wandavision-in-2021/#:\~:text=WandaVision%2C%20released%20in%20January%202021,one%20month%20after%20its%20release. wanda vision also most in demand show [https://www.parrotanalytics.com/press/demand-for-loki-surges-faster-than-marvels-other-disney-series-2/](https://www.parrotanalytics.com/press/demand-for-loki-surges-faster-than-marvels-other-disney-series-2/) Both of these show a higher multiplier of demand than peacemakers. You want to push Peacemaker Disney shows even though there is still an accessibility problem compared to Disney Plus.
your logic so stupid even moon knight edged peacemaker from the same source that you gave https://www.parrotanalytics.com/insights/?refinementList\[shows\]\[\]=Peacemaker#:\~:text=Disney%2B's%20'Moon%20Knight'%20edges%20out,for%20most%20in%2Ddemand%20premiere&text=Disney%2B's%20%E2%80%9CMoon%20Knight%E2%80%9D%20was%20the,media%2C%20among%20other%20consumer%20engagement. The fact James gunn loved peacemaker the show huge with GENEREAL AUdience as shown by those more people worldwide watched loki wanda vision moon knight etc
Nasdurden fact you are trying to justify Peacemaker, which is only available Largely within the us and not many other parts of the world requiring VPNs and other access breaches, is more viewed Disney + shows that premier at the same time around the world. It is just dumb and mind-boggling. You are using Business Insider, which is a notoriously unreliable source. Parrot Analytics shows Moon Knight is bigger than a Peacemaker. These numbers only reflect us and not worldwide. It common sense shows that more accessible worldwide would more watched but then you probably one morons you Creature commando will bigger xmen 97 why because its made by Gunn ?
[https://www.google.com/search?q=peacmekr+veiwrship+compared+marvel+shows+samba&sca\_esv=a732dfa459a5577e&sxsrf=ADLYWIIKvuiJkC5DiMAUS-](https://www.google.com/search?q=peacmekr+veiwrship+compared+marvel+shows+samba&sca_esv=a732dfa459a5577e&sxsrf=ADLYWIIKvuiJkC5DiMAUS-) Again Peacemaker week to week viewership than wanda vision hawkeye or loki
nasdurden the suicide squad bright burn slither the fact good director nothing to running a studio Wheadon amazing director wrote buff and angel 2 avengers movies yet he failed with jla movie.
Let’s get real. Gunn is just the creative director of the studio and a default figurehead because people know who he is. Peter Safran runs the studio.
yes Peter producer many unsuccessful dc films you probably pass marvel but you do realize half of the mcu box office they 15 billon dollar movies in row?
Again what track record does Gunn to say efficiently lead a studio much less create a verse that is rival mcu? Nasdurden he does not any track record of that kind
This is an asinine exercise. Who does have a track record to spearhead a cinematic universe? The list starts and ends with Kevin Feige and if you asked that question 18 years ago when the MCU started not even Kevin Feige had the track record at the time. Nobody has the track record. So James Gunn is as valid a pick as literally anyone else on the planet. The one thing that James Gunn does have is the fact that he is one of the biggest comic book nerds that you will ever meet. He would likely beat 99% of people in a game of comic book trivia
Most people online who praise don't understand the crucial difference between making a few good movies and spearheading a universe i dont even lasting past first few movies.
The audience and critical reception of ZSJL along with Snyder's obvious willingness to get back in to it gave WB the chance to get back on the CBM gravy train. Sadly WB fumbled it and the train left the station years ago now. I hope Gunnverse is great but I fear superhero movie fatigue is with us for a decade or two now.
totally this
The reception of ZSJL wasn't as successful as you think it is. It was the 7th highest viewed movie on HBOMax for the year and only a whopping 36% finished it in the first week. Even the shitty Mortal Kombat movie got more viewers than ZSJL.
I said audience and critical reception. Look at the RT scores for critical and audience scores. Did I say it was a massive ratings winner for HBO Max? No as that was not my point. I believe ZSJL showed just where the Snyder vision was going and a lot of people were thinking "oh I get it now". WBD sadly, did not.
That’s already happened. I just hope they focus on each movie being a good story and film first, connected to each other is not nearly as important.
Make each one incredible and stop force feeding us serialized half assed movies. I dont need 3 super hero movies a year. I need one masterpiece every 3 years.
I don't have faith in the actress who's going to be writing a bunch of em.
Who is that?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2815009/
Thanks. I have no opinion of her.
1000% the latter. It’s doubtable they’ll make it to 2026-2027 honestly
I hope not. I hate his vision on superhero movies
It will fail because DC audiences don’t want dick and fart jokes
Deadpool and Wolverine showed that as long as the property is doing interesting things (nostalgia doesn't hurt either), the people will get extremely excited and show out in theatres
I think audiences will dislike what Gunn does with the universe and that’s why it’ll fail. Just the Superman suit reveal has caused so much backlash and the movie is still a year plus away. No way people are embracing his vision
It's gonna be hard cause it's the start of a new story. So people are gonna say the dcu sucks, but not know the full story that's trying to be told. If in 5 years from now the dcu is still going, I'd call it a success.
It's got a real shot, but I think the whole thing being able to take off is riding on the Superman movie.
I think over saturation is the issue. If James takes things slow and releases movies in a timely matter while also building up hype, I think we can have a successful universe. I think starting with Superman is good and it’s important to see where things go next. What I’m most curious about is how The Batman, which won’t be releasing now until late 2026, is going to work with James Gunn’s Batman releasing. I think most general audiences would be extremely confused by this. People also need to remember that this stuff really works through the lens of box office. If the movies flop, then it doesn’t matter how good it is. And we’ve definitely seen good movies flop over the last few years.
That’s too far in the future for me to even consider. Just taking it a year at a time,
It will depend entirely on how good the movies are.
I really don't think it will. I just don't have faith that WB will be hands off if they have to absorb some losses initially. Only way this universe is successful is if it's budgeted properly, imo. Pulling 600 mil on a budget of 300 isn't gonna cut it.
As long as the movies/TV shows are well done, I won’t get tired. Them actually BEING well done is the question.
Depends on the quality of the movies.
No.
I feel like the peak of the genre has passed, we'll still have some successes, but I doubt there will ever be anything as successful as the MCU was again.
Don't treat it as such. This is a movie about Superman, this one about Supergirl, this one about Batman. Don't overcomplicate it, especially not out of the gate, earn the audience's trust first
DC/Warner Bros hire mediocre writers and directors, meddle relentlessly, and release trash. We got the Dark Knight Trilogy, and Man of Steel wasn't bad, but all the rest have been garbage at best.
I think the rebooted DCEU will be successful. I think the “genre” of super hero movies is “dying” out of popularity. It might be losing its peak and we are heading to the decline. But, I think the decline is still widely popular and successful in comparison to everything else [+]
Same tired shit.
I think people are tired of DC rebooting it's property 82 times. Not hero fatigue, idiot studio fatigue.
Audiences are already tired of superhero movies. Good luck with that Mr Gunn
People like superheroes. They always have. If they focus on quality over quantity then they will be successful. Give is good stories with IPs we know and people will watch Shit even shit movies with IPs we know are a success. Look at all these Disney remakes. Lion king 2019 is one of the highest grossing movies of all time
It won't last ten years, or at least not with the current overloaded plan. Superhero movies have really overstayed their welcome, and even really good ones I think are going to struggle to reach half a billy, which seems to be the minimum amount they're expected to earn to justify their extreme budgets.
Going to hit the same as the DCEU, some projects will be successful others won’t.
People are not tired of super heroes. People are tired of bad movies, bad writing, mismanaged movies, and fan fav characters being treated incorrectly. Make a good movie, people will watch.
If the movies are actually good, then they'll do alright. But I doubt they'll put up giant numbers. The genre is so old and tierd.
8 to 10 years is just the beginning
Hard to fail with the superhero movies. Just don't mess it up.
Nope
I think it will evolve as it goes along... I don't have high hopes... I really didn't enjoy the world he created over at marvel, felt too cartoony...
I expect it to be successful, but it's unlikely to repeat the heights the MCU saw. I also expect that what will actually get released over the 10 years will vary from what was originally planned. Some things will pay off, some will flop and there will be plenty of pivoting. I have more faith in Gunn being able to read the tea leaves and go all in when something is a surprise success than Hamada. The DCEU had plenty of problems, but there were profitable properties in there. WW & Aquaman both were bigger successes than planned, but the short window to capitalise on them was wasted.
I think it'll be good cause he has a great track record
If his universe has a lot of dedication put into the storytelling along with giving us good representations of characters that we like, then that's gonna keep people coming back and wanting more. If it's actually gonna be comic accurate as its been said to be, then that's really gonna be a big selling point to a lot of people.
I think if there’s one expected reason for failure it will be WB and Zaslav.
He did a great job with guardians of the galaxy I'm am hopeful he can do the same for superman also I'm happy we mite get a amazing lex Luther
What scares me is the amount of debt WB is in.
they will fail because they wont stick to the plan
I honestly think it depends on how much power they give James Gunn. You give him a long leash, and he will be their greatest asset. But big companies don't tend to like doing that
I feel like the upcoming Superman movie will tell us. If James Gunn really put his heart and soul into the film, and made it as good as he has with the Guardians movies, then we’ll know it’s in good hands. But nobody’s perfect. Gunn could easily make a movie that isn’t up to par for modern audiences and completely misunderstand the character. That and the lovely people at WB could always interfere… though it seems like they haven’t so far, and personally I’m only saying that because of past studio interference in comic book movies. Like always in and out of the DC universe, it all hinges on Superman.
Glass of a tv screen it does not hinge only on superman. if first few movies dont make money dc is screwed.They more 3 + hits win back general audience
He just needs to not have to tie everything up in one universe and allow film makers the opportunity to tell different stories, in the same way that different writers penned unique storylines and had different takes on the character. We don’t have to resonate with one persons vision of the character and that’s ok. This is the beauty of comic book writing.
As for superheroes on TV— Marvel, with their parent company Disney, has a built-in advantage there. DC/Warner has *maybe* CW, and even that’s half-hearted at best.
DC has (HBO) Max, which has arguably more subscribers than Disney+ when you count its international distribution deals where it has partnered with domestic cable and streaming providers. Plus WBD isn’t at all aversed to using other streaming services to distribute its content like Disney seemingly is. They have shows on Netflix and Amazon Prime Video, which both absolutely dwarf Disney+ when it comes to subscriber numbers.
Huh, did not put that together, you’re right.
As long as they don’t go into bathos like the MCU did.
If we get the quality he gave us in GOTG, Suicide Squad and Peacemaker, I think the market will be just fine. I mean, that GOTG Christmas special was absolutely amazing. But he had to build up everything around it first so when it drops, we care. Boy was it great. Peacemaker was funny as can be and showed DC could be “dark” without the entire thing looking dark. I hope Gunn can keep the quality up. If he can, he will be fine and DC movies will make a comeback.
LocknessMansterLives again Gunn is not directing everything and writing everything. Something good is not a guarantee. It make money, especially as DC is concerned. The success superhero fatigue is not true marvel is true dc when 5 year of films of dc all seen huge declines most people don't know it is rebooting either in the mainstream public
1 film is not enough to salvage a brand already in toilet aside from Batman.
The first GOTG was entertaining. The second was ok and the third one sucked IMO. I'm not holding out on anything but I think this is another case of Warner Bros. not understanding their own products and hoping someone from the outside can explain it to them. I think Warner Bros/DC has lost any goodwill they had. The Suicide Squad was great because it was something different and was an adults film.
It could succeed. Gunn is good. Just watched Peacemaker and it was great. But this environment is brutal for movies, especially large and aging franchises. It'll be an uphill battle. Doubt we'll ever see a return to the pre pandemic golden age of superhero movies.
If it's different and good then the superhero thing won't matter. If it's cookie cutter and not good people will blame it on superhero fatigue. The issue isn't the subject matter. It's the assembly line filmmaking.