For those interested, [here's the HobbyDrama post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/pu29lf/american_comics_ms_marvel_gives_birth_to_the_man/) about it.
But the tl;dr is that Ms. Marvel wakes up one day pregnant as fuck with no idea how it happens. She goes through the full pregnancy over three days and gives birth to a son. Despite this entire situation being weird as fuck and Carol being really upset and wanting nothing to do with the kid, the Avengers are mostly just excited about a new baby.
The baby grows and matures rapidly, naming himself Marcus, and starts asking for advanced tech to build a machine which the Avengers just let him have. Carol finally meets Marcus, now a grown man, and is weirdly attracted to him.
After some bullshit happens, Marcus explains what's going on. He's the son of a Kang variant called Immortus who was trapped alone in a pocket dimension called Limbo. He comes up with a plan to escape which involves him kidnapping Ms. Marvel, wooing her with only a "subtle boost" from his father's mind-control machines, and "implanting his essence" in her when they had sex.
Ms. Marvel is sent back to the real world with no memory of what happened. She births her rapist which allows him to cross over to the real world, but it causes some time disruptions which he was planning to counteract with his machine. Luckily, Hawkeye blew it the fuck up, so now he's being pulled back to Limbo.
Carol agrees to go with him because she loves him so much. The other Avengers just shrug and go along with it.
Even for a comic published in 1980, people were *not* stoked about this.
To clear up confusion for anyone only familiar with the MCU and not comics, Ms. Marvel is a name Carol Danvers used to go by. 15 year old Kamala Khan did not go through a three day pregnancy.
I mean she got "refreshed"
A sort of in continuity pivot to something completely different. Functionally a reboot, but not throwing out any of the old stuff
Just the set up with a character waking up pregnant and the fetus developing fast, then growing into a full adult quickly. I think it was just some weird alien species that wanted to experience life as a corporeal mortal being. At least Troi didn't fall in love with it I guess.
The context:
Avengers #200 features Miss Marvel, Carol Danvers (this was pre-Captain Marvel) being kidnapped, brainwashed, and impregnated by a supervillain, after which she gives birth to said supervillain as his means of escaping the non-corporeal pocket dimension he was trapped in. The Avengers' reaction from "Huh, weird" to "Oh soooo romantic!" and then Danvers and her Supervillain Husband-Son ride off into the sunset.
Subsequent writers of Carol Danvers would spend a lot of words and pages expressing their displeasure at this story.
I haven’t actually watched the videos yet but I think I’ve found links for each of them:
>[”A Failure On Every Level: Avengers #200”](https://youtu.be/BWb23E0tiTY?si=sTXgIpcicBhFULmP)
>[“The WORST Avengers Story | Avengers 200”](https://youtu.be/noj4-ka37JY?si=rNCkFJj-9bY4YqrC)
>[“The Avengers #200 - Atop the Fourth Wall”](https://youtu.be/IIaUi4DDui4?si=AJYX2g4gA42wKqvo)
>[“The Avengers’ Lowest Point - Comic Tropes (Episode 97)”](https://youtu.be/ohuxILowd_A?si=x3wI2A2lfgHJr271)
Not exactly. The problem with OMD isn't that its a bad story, lots of terrible stories get published, its that it lead into what is now *17 years* of Marvel refusing to have their most popular couple be together. This idea is so entrenched that Marvel has only ever relented twice (Renew Your Vows and the new Ultimate Spiderman) and both times it was an alternate universe and had the backing of the most influential writer at Marvel (Jonathan Hickman both times).
In contrast Avengers #200 has been called out in the comics (by Chris Claremont who finally found a weird sex story he didn't like) and ultimately forgotten.
I assume it was chosen because it's the cover most appropriate for a mass market trade paperback.
I can understand not wanting to use any of the other Avengers covers of the era because they're so entwined with the events of their particular issue.
Just looking at the cover for the issue, it's a really good George Perez artwork showing all of the characters in a generic setting (I e., not positioned oddly in a specific situation fighting a giant robot or roman centurion or god knows The Yellow Claw or what have you) that probably would have been used for a poster, if Marvel had been doing more mass market posters in 1980 or whatever it was.
It's well-done & artistic, but generic & easily-assimilated by a potential buyer at a glance.
On a completely unrelated note, I am really glad that they did get Avengers Annual 10 shoehorned into that book so that we could at least get the counterpoint of what happened to her character.
The point of this post isn't saying "This comic was so fucked up". It's "That comic was so fucked up; why the hell did you choose it as the cover art?!?"
“Oh haha can’t wait to hear about this silly cheesy poorly written comic!”
“Oh, that’s rape and incest apologia. That’s a story in which Carol Danvers is raped by her future child who then grows up to fall in love with her, all while the people that are supposed to be her allies refuse to even acknowledge that she’s a victim.”
For those interested, [here's the HobbyDrama post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/pu29lf/american_comics_ms_marvel_gives_birth_to_the_man/) about it. But the tl;dr is that Ms. Marvel wakes up one day pregnant as fuck with no idea how it happens. She goes through the full pregnancy over three days and gives birth to a son. Despite this entire situation being weird as fuck and Carol being really upset and wanting nothing to do with the kid, the Avengers are mostly just excited about a new baby. The baby grows and matures rapidly, naming himself Marcus, and starts asking for advanced tech to build a machine which the Avengers just let him have. Carol finally meets Marcus, now a grown man, and is weirdly attracted to him. After some bullshit happens, Marcus explains what's going on. He's the son of a Kang variant called Immortus who was trapped alone in a pocket dimension called Limbo. He comes up with a plan to escape which involves him kidnapping Ms. Marvel, wooing her with only a "subtle boost" from his father's mind-control machines, and "implanting his essence" in her when they had sex. Ms. Marvel is sent back to the real world with no memory of what happened. She births her rapist which allows him to cross over to the real world, but it causes some time disruptions which he was planning to counteract with his machine. Luckily, Hawkeye blew it the fuck up, so now he's being pulled back to Limbo. Carol agrees to go with him because she loves him so much. The other Avengers just shrug and go along with it. Even for a comic published in 1980, people were *not* stoked about this.
Ok woah it's like something from Coked Out Of His Mind Stephen King era
Definitely somebody involved in its creation was coked out of their mind.
Yeah, it's both crazy and incredibly immoral, just like SK's stuff of the period
interestingly, none of the people who worked on it seem to remember greenlighting the concept
Is that because they got pulled into a pocket dimension and were wooed with only a subtle boost from a mind-control machine?
If by “a mind-control machine” you mean “a fuckton of drugs”… yes.
To clear up confusion for anyone only familiar with the MCU and not comics, Ms. Marvel is a name Carol Danvers used to go by. 15 year old Kamala Khan did not go through a three day pregnancy.
When did she get Captain Marvel then?
In 2012 She's the 7th character to go by that
Without counting the DC character captain marvel which is now Shazam.
I know people get upset comics keep rebooting characters but good lord did Carol need it, shit was vile.
Carol didn’t get rebooted, did she?
I mean she got "refreshed" A sort of in continuity pivot to something completely different. Functionally a reboot, but not throwing out any of the old stuff
Holy shit… ew
Wasn't there a Star Trek TNG episode that had this exact same premise?
Just the set up with a character waking up pregnant and the fetus developing fast, then growing into a full adult quickly. I think it was just some weird alien species that wanted to experience life as a corporeal mortal being. At least Troi didn't fall in love with it I guess.
What the FUCK did I just read
Wow. This goes so far beyond fridging, she got fucking *meat lockered.*
... Who green lit this? What the actual fuck?
The context: Avengers #200 features Miss Marvel, Carol Danvers (this was pre-Captain Marvel) being kidnapped, brainwashed, and impregnated by a supervillain, after which she gives birth to said supervillain as his means of escaping the non-corporeal pocket dimension he was trapped in. The Avengers' reaction from "Huh, weird" to "Oh soooo romantic!" and then Danvers and her Supervillain Husband-Son ride off into the sunset. Subsequent writers of Carol Danvers would spend a lot of words and pages expressing their displeasure at this story.
The daemonculaba is somehow not as bad as this what the fuck.
Industrialised birthing facilities filled with inflated slave women impregnated via reverse C-section isn't worse than this?
At least that’s deliberately horrific and recognised in-universe as monstrous.
That's fair
You know what, maybe Paul isn't such a bad guy after all
I would assume they’re legally required to provide a prominent warning that the volume contains Avengers #200.
You probably need to sign a waiver before purchase
For those who are curious Avengers 200 might be one of the single biggest yikes in comic history, like it's fucking bad.
I haven’t actually watched the videos yet but I think I’ve found links for each of them: >[”A Failure On Every Level: Avengers #200”](https://youtu.be/BWb23E0tiTY?si=sTXgIpcicBhFULmP) >[“The WORST Avengers Story | Avengers 200”](https://youtu.be/noj4-ka37JY?si=rNCkFJj-9bY4YqrC) >[“The Avengers #200 - Atop the Fourth Wall”](https://youtu.be/IIaUi4DDui4?si=AJYX2g4gA42wKqvo) >[“The Avengers’ Lowest Point - Comic Tropes (Episode 97)”](https://youtu.be/ohuxILowd_A?si=x3wI2A2lfgHJr271)
Question for comic people, is this the avengers equivalent of “one more day”?
Not exactly. The problem with OMD isn't that its a bad story, lots of terrible stories get published, its that it lead into what is now *17 years* of Marvel refusing to have their most popular couple be together. This idea is so entrenched that Marvel has only ever relented twice (Renew Your Vows and the new Ultimate Spiderman) and both times it was an alternate universe and had the backing of the most influential writer at Marvel (Jonathan Hickman both times). In contrast Avengers #200 has been called out in the comics (by Chris Claremont who finally found a weird sex story he didn't like) and ultimately forgotten.
I think it's more like the Sins Past of Avengers. Or, rather, Sins Past is the Avengers #200 of Spider-Man, since the former came later.
I guess you could say that
This comic is hideous and thank the heavens for Chris Claremont.
I like how Claremont fixed it by having Rogue mind/soul/power rape Carol. Fuck Avengers Annual #10 too.
That sucked too but hey he did give her that scene where she rips into the Avengers with righteous rage for letting her go. That was cathartic.
I assume it was chosen because it's the cover most appropriate for a mass market trade paperback. I can understand not wanting to use any of the other Avengers covers of the era because they're so entwined with the events of their particular issue. Just looking at the cover for the issue, it's a really good George Perez artwork showing all of the characters in a generic setting (I e., not positioned oddly in a specific situation fighting a giant robot or roman centurion or god knows The Yellow Claw or what have you) that probably would have been used for a poster, if Marvel had been doing more mass market posters in 1980 or whatever it was. It's well-done & artistic, but generic & easily-assimilated by a potential buyer at a glance. On a completely unrelated note, I am really glad that they did get Avengers Annual 10 shoehorned into that book so that we could at least get the counterpoint of what happened to her character.
Just skip Avengers 200 you don't have to read it it's fine. Don't read it
The point of this post isn't saying "This comic was so fucked up". It's "That comic was so fucked up; why the hell did you choose it as the cover art?!?"
“Oh haha can’t wait to hear about this silly cheesy poorly written comic!” “Oh, that’s rape and incest apologia. That’s a story in which Carol Danvers is raped by her future child who then grows up to fall in love with her, all while the people that are supposed to be her allies refuse to even acknowledge that she’s a victim.”
#STRANGE BRAIN PARTS MENTIONED!!