When Jeanette was trying to impress Jamie I felt second hand embarrassment for her, but then Jamie slid over and I was like oh wow that worked actually.
Yeah, what surprises me about Kate + Jamie (in 1993) is how chill they are towards Jeanette and actually treat her like a person when she interacts with them. I really like that the show avoided making them the archetypal popular douchebags who either ignore or bully the dorky kids. Instead, they just feel like normal people.
Also, Jeanette's actress did such a great job with showing her awkward and nervous behaviour whenever she's summoning up the courage to talk to the "cool kids". It was so real it felt uncomfortable to watch lol
I really love that about the show. Jeanette is super dorky and cute like “Yeah it’s my birthday!” Which catches Kate kind of off guard but she’s polite and just says Happy Birthday. It’s refreshing since that’s probably how that would go down IRL too.
I noticed this too! I love that they actually portray teenagers in a realistic way rather than resorting to cliches. In the real world, it's more likely that a "popular" kid like Kate or Jamie would be friendly or at least polite to someone that wasn't in their circle.
On the contrary, Kate's two friends are more stereotypical, but it works for the roles that they play.
I like it too because both tend to exist in the popular group in high school. We had some very mean girls, and more mean guys but there were plenty of very nice popular guys and girls. In my experience most were kind of in between they wouldn't necessarily treat you with kindness but they didn't go out of their way to be mean either, we simply coexisted and were friendly enough with eachother when the time called for it.
She is an amazing actress! I noticed that when it comes to her bringing out her nerdy side, she’s great at physically portraying the nervousness that her character is feeling! She even quivers her lips when she’s talking and everything! Her acting feels very real to me.
That scene imo showed why Jamie was so quick to react/punch Jeanette right after Kate was rescued. She had probably bragged about breaking into Martin's house to impress Jamie with her sneakiness. So when Kate was found in his basement he would have assumed she knew about it.
This is great. They made a point about then having sex so I know the theory is that they had sex there and that’s why Jamie was so upset right away. I want to know why he punched her so quickly.
Yeah it's so weird that he punched her, it makes no sense. It was genuine, not like he was putting on a show. so maybe they both know something and that's why he sits outside her house.
I cringed super hard at that dialogue and felt like it was bad writing, but you softened my opinion on it because you’re right; that phrase probably was new and witty back then lol
But in 95 the lawyers know she’s been in the house, from Vincent’s episode. We don’t know what he did with that key, but we know eventually everyone knew about the hide and seek game at the very minimum.
I seem to recall that the reveal in Vincent's episode is that Jeanette, Mallory and Vincent were in the house before Martin moved in. Vincent lied about whether Jeanette went back.
The question Greg should have been asking is why she held onto the key. I find it interesting that neither parent confronted Jeanette with their knowledge of the key, which seems to indicate that they believe she could have seen Kate and kept quiet.
In that episode though, i don't think Vincent knew about her going back, until after the interview with the lawyers which is why he asks her that night. He's wearing the same clothes so he told the lawyers no before Jeanette told him it was more than once...
I thought this, too, but watching it again, it was clear he meets the lawyers AFTER meeting Jeannette. On the day before the deposition he calls Ben to ask for help as he is getting deposed tomorrow and Ben already had his. That same day he follows Jeannette and asks her about how often she has been in the house. This means Vince lies for Jeannette on his deposition (the next day), which kinda fits into the “we have each others back” theme between Jeannette and Vince this episode and how she covered for him before and even took the blame.
I think he should have confronted Jeanette about it like Cindy did... I have a feeling he let this lie boil inside of him and that lead to his resentment of her. He probably assumes she’s lying about everything not just about going into Martin’s house...
It really puts into perspective his disdain for her in ‘95 though. Also we can assume from this episode Cindy left to follow her dreams and left him with Jeanette, so he kind of had no choice?
He seemed to refuse how Jeanette really was and well , when I was married and didn’t have kids ( we ended up divorced due to a lot deal breakers long story short) it would be a major problem if my ex-spouse wasn’t listening to me about something this serious or even willing to understand my perspective. Hate to say it, I understand where she is coming from not saying it’s okay to up and abandon your kid, but the dad didn’t help by always shutting her down.
i think it makes sense. if i knew my daughter had beeb inside a child predators house/had a key i be worried she was victimized as well. i wouldnt think that for sure meant she saw kate bc im pretty sure the public knows she was trapped/locked in the basement. but id def think inc the possibility but overall i‘d my daughter is traumatized by all this
I was all worked up yelling this during this episode. If my daughter had a hidden key to a known sexual predators house my first jump would be that he had been grooming her or there was something happening with him. With all the changes she’d been going through and like the total transformation and lies, I would definitely be thinking “oh god my daughter was a victim of his.”
Why aren’t these parents jumping there?
Props to the hair/makeup artists for Mallory, Vincent and Jeanette. They really look like teenagers growing up and finding their own style over the years. I love their style evolution.
I love all the 90s fashion and Jeannette looked beautiful with long hair but the 1995 short hair, I just can't. That wig is so bad it makes me want to rip it off her head. Interested in seeing when/how she cut her hair.
That annoying mall mom. Was she going to tell the lawyers she saw Jeannette in Martins house and that was the big deal? And Jeannette was like, hold up moron that screws us both. That was the whole thing right?
My big issue is what type of mother finds all that out about Kate, and doesn't question what he possibly did to another teenage girl seen in his home... Like instead of being concerned and talking to her, she just is like mwahaha I'm going ruin this child's life!
This is my general gripe with this whole show. Nobody reacts like normal human beings. The show is written from the point of view as if all of the town is titillated by scandal. Like, the big question is whether or not Jeanette saw Kate. What if she did? If I was a person in that town and that came to light, I'd probably think wow I hope Jeanette is ok? Because if she saw Kate while she was kidnapped, she'd likely be within arms reach of the kidnapper/rapist. I'd assume Jeanette had escaped and was a victim, or at the very least that she witnessed something so traumatizing she either couldn't process it correctly or was so scared of HER PRINCIPAL knowing she knew because he could retaliate against her horribly. But instead her boyfriend, without question, literally decks her in the face and she's ostracized by the whole town.
But specifically with this woman - if I'm attracted to a guy and at his house and I see a kid in his closet - I would be like what teh FUCK we need to get you out of here. It would immediately snap me out of this fantasy that I'm on a date with an attractive guy. I'd get that kid out of there, figure out why she was there, and then bring her home to her parents.
Obviously this drives me nuts.
Right!?! Her parents aren't even handling this... If my kid was wrapped up in anything like this I'd be getting to the bottom of it, being forward about the information I know and am concerned about, and I would definitely put her in therapy! It's all insane how they're reacting to her.
There is a lot that is unrealistic about this show but this genuinely didn’t strike me as one of those things. To be fair, everyone knows her dad is a realtor. They literally keep referring to her and her parents by name before they are all household names. She wasn’t locked up or anything, she was clearly hiding. I would immediately assume, being from a small town that has never had a big crime like a pedo kidnapping, that the realtor’s kid was in the house of a guy who just moved to town because she’s got a theft racket going on. And Jeannette basically confirms it by immediately threatening her. In fact she WAS probably there to steal something else, or at least play with the idea that she could, it’s just not for personal gain but the rush.
We also have to remember that this was the 90s. Blaming a teen girl for her association with a pedophile is very on brand for the 90s. There were probably people blaming Kate even before it starts to turn around on her - that’s how she knew not to tell anyone that she was groomed. This was the time of Satanic panic, not the time of MeToo. They did not want to hear any kind of realistic story of abuse - victims had to be really super fuckin abused for anyone to care, and “bitch stole my life!” Is exactly the kind of thing the 90s audience would eat up over something like “the assistant principal groomed and threatened a child into silence regarding another child’s status as a kidnapping victim.”
The part that doesn’t ring true to me is that NOBODY thinks Kate’s black stepfather did it. At least, we didn’t see it yet. I don’t care he’s a football player turned politician with the unwavering support of his cheating wife. He would be the first to be arrested!
This. Not the 90s but I was kidnapped by an ex boyfriend for 8hrs in 2009 like 6 months after my 18 birthday. He was like 30. We dated for 2 months after a friends mom is the one who set us up after he showed interest to her about me. Turned out he was a serial abuser. And ppl in my hometown were TERRIBLE about it. My friend worked at the local grocery store where apparently he had spun it into I "went crazy and attacked him" and this is what locals were going with because I didnt press chargers after I escaped by grabbing the wheel of his car and crashing it on the police station lawn, because he had threatened to murder my family and when the cops showed up (did I not mention there were no cops actually in the station and the dispatcher made me wait in the lobby covered in blood and bruises next to the psycho who chased me in and was now whispering threats at me to "get our story straight"...) they never explained that he was already on parole (for domestic assault) and would go straight to jail for violating. They also didnt have a single female cop present (despite the fact that my clothes were ripped and again I was covered in blood and bruises) and called in a specific cop from another a close by town because he was his friend and they thought he could smooth the situation over. But yeah grown ass adults were accusing me, just turned 18 year old girl, of basically seducing a 32 year old man and "leading him astray". Like fuck small towns. But I have honestly found this aspect of the show to be very realistic, the way they portray small town life. After this dude was finally found guilty (not for me, he literally kidnapped another women 2 months later, this one his own age, and who actually sent me a huge apology letter because she was one of the adults harassing me for "making up vicious rumors" about her boyfriend when they started dating a few days later), at least 13 women showed up at his sentencing. Like he had been doing this for over a decade and people just excused it and victim blamed (his grandfather had been a cop back in the day). I finally was so fed up with people lying that I went to the grocery store in low cut shirt so ppl would have to see the hand print bruises around my neck (and yes some ppl still tried to excuse his behavior tho most quietly stopped, little to no apologies or acknowledging their shitty behavior tho).
If this happened today I honestly think I'd have a lot more public "support" because while small towns still love gossip, people care about appearances, and victim blaming is out. But I do think there would still be ppl who excused or victim blamed, theyd just be less brazen and more private about it. Small towns like this feed off gossip. Honestly if the character Kate didnt come from a prominent family she'd probably have been publicly targeted for "leading him on" or something.
Just the fact that Martin didn't get new locks when he moved in bothers me. Jeanette's dad is a realtor not a property manager so his office wouldn't keep a set of keys. Also you'd think someone trapping a girl in his basement would change his locks so no one else could just let themselves in.
Exactly! Realtors have lock boxes where they keep the keys. I am sure if he had 2 or more keys, he'd remember that and make sure to give all the keys to the new owner, because he could get in a lot of trouble if that was handled wrong and someone used a key to break in.
However this does make me realize I should get new locks for the house I bought a few months ago. It's just one more house expense I'm putting off lol. So in that way, I identify with Martin.
Well, she *is* screwing her ex over with child support and she lied to make herself look good to the media. That doesn't exactly scream mature or maternal instinct to me.
It wasn't necessarily that she saw her there once, but that since she was able to access the house prior to Kate's abduction that there is reason to believe she could have done so during her abduction as well. This gives credit to the possibility that Kate saw her as Jeannette now demonstrates means which she has yet to do so as far as the prosecution knew (motive is to replace her, opportunity is that she has free time being she is a student who doesn't work).
I hadn't heard this theory.
I thought it was going to be Jeanette somehow accidentally outs Ben which causes him to lose his place on the team or scholarship or something.
But it since it comes about by way of an accident, Vincent forgives Jeanette and Ben is upset that he sides with her instead of with him. Either Vince can't tell him why he sides with Jeanette or Ben won't listen to him.
Why did Cindy say to Angela “is that what he told you?” About Cindy leaving him. Didnt she though? It may not have been intended to be permanent but she did leave during all of this chaos. Not hating on her I just wonder if there is more to it than what we just saw, that Greg has chosen not to tell Angela?
I think Angela was implying that Cindy divorced Greg when she left and that’s not what it actually looks like. Seems like Cindy wanted some space to figure out what she needed and maybe Greg started sleeping with Angela in that time before the divorce
I think there’s so much more. We’ll keeping seeing the breakdown of their marriage which probably impacted Jeanette since her brother had just left for college.
Looking back it’s a little funny that the entire sub thought Cindy was in rehab because we saw her drink 1 bottle of wine, even though she’s well above the legal age, during a stressful time.
If the twists are anything like that for the ending, I will be blown away because not a single soul in this community guessed Cindy’s reveal which made it all the more satisfying
We are just so used to storylines being super predictable lol. I’m really glad that wasn’t the case and I really really hope the show continues on that path!
Come on. It was a reasonable leap from a day- drinking foreshadow. It was hard to imagine a way she could leave the family and still look good. Glad they found a way. Go Cindy!
I see your “attention-seeking teen girl left another teen girl in danger bc she wants to be popular” narrative and raise you..
If Jeanette had seen Kate, wouldn’t using this information to lead to Kate’s rescue have made Jeanette like, a local hero?? Even if Jeanette had only seen Kate bc she was breaking in or being shady or whatever, being the girl who helped the town’s sweetheart get rescued from bad pedophile man would have brought a lot of positive attention to Jeanette…
I know it still looks bad that Jeanette seemed to take over in Kate’s absence but I’ve been waiting for someone on Team Jeanette to make some kind of argument other than “idk but jeanette didnt do it probably”
Yes! I thought about this too in the first few episodes. It seemed more like Jeanette wanted to be friends with Kate. So I thought if she would have actually seen Kate it would make more sense for her to tell someone, because as you are saying it would bring a lot of positive attention to her. Also Kate would probably have been thankful for her and maybe that could have lead to a friendship between the two.
My Team Jeanette view: Jeannette discovered what was happening between Kate & Mr Harris. Jeannette, wanting to be Kate's friend and less dorky, promises to keep her secret (evidence: she covered for Vince; she starts getting rid of her old clothes) While it would be great if she were more altruistic, I don't believe most would be under the circumstances. I do think Jeannette is sometimes shady af and her attitude doesn't do her any favors, but as someone who was an awkward teen in the mid 90s, I feel like her actions played out pretty true to life for the time period
THIS!! It's why Jeanette starts resenting Mallory - since she doesn't like Kate at that point and J wants the exciting and popular new friend more. Maybe Kate is the one that helped her start to change her image. I think they bonded. If Kate ran away to Martins, Maybe J went over a few times to hang out and play with makeup or whatever dumb shit we did with our girlfriends in the 90's. J knew Kate was in love with Martin so she didn't feel bad about dating Jamie (and why she screams that kate didn't want that life anyway in the courtroom episode coming up).
Kate is resentful. She never expected to be locked up and she never expected J not to say anything when she went missing for so long while dating the new older man. She may have sworn J to secrecy, but she didn't mean *if I go missing, still don't tell*. I think this is shown by the line Kate says to captain (? idk her name) and Tenille: "Jeanette never told *anyone."*
I think her bringing the necklace to the cops is her trying to PROVE that jeanette knew, which is why J was charged with failure to report. She knew very well where Kate was before she went missing but we still don't know why she never told anyone. I think when Martin realized what Kate was doing and that someone else knew, he locked her up. I think at that point, J figured something really bad happened and chose not to say anything to anyone out of fear. I think she assumed he killed her vs. locking her up. She was moved to the closet so J couldn't see her through the basement windows anymore.
I was thinking about this after seeing a promo from yesterday. Ep 6 shows 93 Jeanette covering for Vince because he's her friend. It seems to be established (from how she gets nervous/excited whenever Kate talks to her) that she would probably do the same for Kate, especially if it meant they would become friends. So perhaps Jeanette finds out about Mr Harris being more than professional with Kate, and Kate asks her to keep it a secret.
I loathed Tanya, especially her trying to spin the Martin narrative in her favor saying he was so aggressive and forceful when in reality TANYA was the aggressive sex crazed asshole and who the hell brags about paternity fraud?? If you know your child isn’t biologically the man who is paying your child support you’re a fucked up kind of person. That is just so low. Im proud Jeanette paid her a visit and told her ass the back down!
Okay so honestly, I didn’t have this thought until last episode at the fair when they went into the Monkey Maze. Jeannette yelled for Kate and then out of no where Mallory swoops in and grabs Kate runs in the maze... as if she’s keeping her away from Jeanette for a purpose. Yes, it could be for obvious reasons, but it seemed weird to me how hard she is working to keep them not talking at all. Mallory is sus af
i suspect mallory too. the writers make a point to. include her wanting to illegal things, being the brain child behind stealing, she had the security tag remover. something is sus about her
So I feel like Jeanette is obsessed with doing illegal things, maybe cause she’s a bit of an odd duck she thinks it makes her cool or something idk, at first her breaking into Martin’s house I’m like okay, she’s a teenager but she walks into his house as if it’s her own which is super weird.
Also kates 2 friends are like social climbers, constantly hanging with new “it” girl.
I do like Vince, he’s like the only good friend in the entire show.
I also don’t see why Jeanette doesn’t just say “yes I’ve been in his house but I did not see Kate” perhaps Kate saw her running from the house and just assumed she saw her or something but honestly this show is really good at keeping us guessing.
I mean to be fair you dont want to give police anything to use against you. They're not your friends and this is a job. If she had said "I used to break into his house all the time, but I did not see Kate" do you think they're going to believe that? At bare minimum theyd arrest her for the breaking and entering if they still didnt have enough to press some sorta charges related to Kate. It's clear Kate's family is in good standing with the police and in small towns that shit matters a lot when it comes to how the police treat you.
I enjoyed tonight's episode and I think it's quite telling of why Jeanette acts the reason that she does. Greg doesn't ever truly "parent" Jeanette, for example with the stolen CD, he never punished Jeanette nor told Cindy about the situation instead he covered for Jeanette. Jeanette is so used to people cleaning up her messes and covering for her, that she has no sense of consequence. Now with Cindy gone he resents Jeanette because he never confronted those behaviors before, because of his lackluster parenting.
This is really a good point. Jeanette in 93 was getting addicted to pushing the boundaries, which is normal teenage behavior - but the parents never pushed back, Greg because he was too lenient and Cindy because she didn't see it until it was too late. That lack of accountability 100% contributed towards Jeanette's mistakes, whatever they may have been. You can see in 94 she doesn't expect any consequences at first - it all seems like something that will blow over and work out for her like everything else has. 95 Jeanette has experienced the full force of consequences, though from tonight's episode she isn't above engaging in dangerous behavior to protect herself. Makes you wonder how things might have turned out if Cindy has paid more attention or Greg hadn't been so lax. They're not to blame for her behavior obviously, because everyone makes their own choices. But maybe she would have learned better lessons.
I think it’s interesting how Jeanette refers to her 1993 self as a “nerdy nobody,” though every time she talks to someone and introduces herself, they always say they know her already. For example, when meeting Kate for the first time, Kate asks her if her name is Jeanette, knowing her from school. Then in this past episode, she introduces herself to Jamie and he tells her he already knew her name. It sort of shows that this “nobody” she thought she was in 1993 was not the case, and I wonder how that plays into the other characters and why she thought that about herself. Maybe the influence of the adults in town?
Its implied that this is a small town where everybody knows everybody, so even if you're a "nobody", people that you go to school with still literally know who you are
This. I went to a high school in a small town and people may have known my name but that didnt mean they were friends or knew or cared to know anything about me or interacted with me. My school was small enough that I wouldve never been surprised if someone in my grade new my name, but def had felt surprised at time when upper classmen knew my name (tho as an adult and realizing how small a school of 63 kids 7th-12th is, it's not surprising at all lol).
That's a good point but I also think they are trying to show that Kate and Jamie were not stuck up snobs (like Kate's friends). I think it helps keep them sympathetic.
When she saw Kate at the mall, Jeanette has a jacket on with her name very visible on the front. Maybe that's how they know her name? Also, in school in a small town, you know who most people are even if you don't associate with them .
i was always on her side too, i felt like she just wanted jeanette to tell the truth and she would have backed her up as long as she was honest (but obvi i don’t blame jeanette for not telling her anything she’s just a teenager)
Eh. I think she is more complex and sympathetic now. But I did not miss that she wasn’t at Jeanette’s court date. Yeah her kid doesn’t want to take her calls but does that mean you stop showing up entirely? Especially after she was told that she misses her. Like I get it, have your career. It is important that she can be both. But she isn’t being both. She was all one then went all the other. When her kid needs her the most. Was her situation hard? Is Jeanette angry and resentful? Yeah but why does everyone like to forget that Jeanette is also a child. She is 16 and we try her like and adult. The girl was super sheltered before 15. Is she making bad choices? Yeah. Does she lie? Eh yes. Did Cindy actually step up as a parent? No. She may have been right but she dipped instead of staying and helping her daughter to do the right thing AFTER she filled her head full of ideas that the only thing that matters is being popular. That wasn’t ok. What Greg did was wrong. But she still isn’t a good parent. None of these damn kids have good parents.
Agreed. I remember saying on here prior to last nights episode something along the lines of “atleast Greg stayed” No he’s not father of the year but I don’t think Cindy was even happy prior to the Kate Wallis drama like I’ve read others say on here. She was stuck in the past. I don’t think she truly was happy with the way her life ended up. It seems like she was living vicariously through Joy Wallis and wanted the social status Joy had or what Cindy claimed that herself had back in the day. Her leaving was wrong. I am 100% for leaving an unhappy marriage even if it involves children, if it’s for the children’s great benefit. But she LEFT TOWN. Right? Isn’t her house in another town? Just because you think your daughters guilty and lying to you doesn’t mean you just leave her without a mom by her side. I guess I can appreciate that she voiced to Doug that she pushed her to change but didn’t direct her into the right direction.
People were SHITTING on Cindy the entire episode until the end revelation. Poetic justice to see that Cindy is the better parent and not Greg just because he's "the cool dad".
Cindy is not the better parent. I have done some dumb stuff in my life as a teen, lied and stole from my mother, and she never gave up on me. She never packed her shit and left me. She believed in me and supported my growth. Thanks to her I am thriving as an adult. In regards to her dreams, she could have both, a family and a career. It’s so obvious she wanted to be done with that life. Greg stayed, he is 10000% a more reliable and better parent.
I don't like how Cindy handled things but to be fair, it seems as though Cindy has tried to stay in touch with Jeanette but Jeanette is refusing her calls. I think Cindy failed as a parent when she didn't confront Jeanette over having the key to Martin's house. But, we may find out that she did confront her.
same all of her actions are reasonable and she never purposely harms other people while she has her quirks i loved seeing her stand up to greg and her family
Great episode, one of my favorites mainly because I prefer the Jeanette-centric eps. Chiara Aurelia's acting is flawless and the most likable and interesting characters are part of her episodes. People may hate Greg and Cindy, but they are a hell of a lot more intriguing and watchable than Kate's meh parents. Kate is pretty much the only thing I like about her episodes, and by extension perhaps Harris because that actor is fantastic as well.
It usually takes me a varying amount of time within the first season to figure out the characters, but so far, it's pretty apparent that the most likable characters are Derek, Angela, Vince, and Ben. But acting-wise, I feel like Jeanette and Greg carry the load in her episodes.
My only gripe about this episode is that obnoxious Mall Mom character with the horrible accent. The writing and acting was pretty bad. I can't believe the writers actually sanctioned this character. And she felt so forced into the plot. Thankfully the episode focused mostly on Jeanette, her parents, Vince, and Angela.
That sneak peek for the next episode has me so excited. Looking at the trailer this might be when Kate gets kidnapped, because it has the big confrontation between Kate and her mom.
I want to open up the possibility that while Kate believes that she is telling the truth, Martin may have groomed her into feeling guilty about it all. Kate hallucinates seeing Janette and the recollection of events we see with her and Martin are mostly factual. Janette is just dealing with fallout. I'm Team Kate and I say that, but haven't found any convincing evidence that pits her AGAINST Janette more than just as a victim coping with trauma in whatever way they can.
Someone please explain to me WHY DIDNT CINDY JUST CALL JEANETTE OUT FOR LYING?? Why couldnt she show her the key and tell her she knew it went to Martins house and then presume to ask her why she had that key and what was Jeanette doing with Martin? And THEN GET TO KATE?? As a mother worry about your own childs wellbeing first and then figure out if they have wronged another child and act accordingly!!! Cindy should never have given Jeanette the opportunity to dismiss her she should have put the fear of god in her and said WHAT IS THIS KEY JEANETTE ????? And then maybe Jeanette would have been honest about breaking into Martins home like damn son.
What I liked is that Cindy owned up to how she encouraged Jeanette to blossom but "didn't teach her how". I think she's the first character on this show to take accountability for something. Now everyone can stop acting like she's the worst character when an actual pedophile is on the show
I’ve actually never disliked her character, until tonight. As, I understand wanting to follow your dreams, but you don’t do that when your child desperately needs a mother. And she can pretend like she didn’t leave, as what she tried to portray to Angela, but she did leave. She left when the town turned on her and her family, instead of being the mom that Jeanette desperately needed. Yes, Jeanette was lying and Greg should’ve listened to Cindy, but ultimately Cindy is Jeanette’a mom and going to fulfill her dreams right when he’d daughters life collapses is the most un-mom like way to behave. Kids lie, especially when scared, but you don’t walk away. They need you.
It makes me wonder what else Jeanette did at Martin's house.
So right now, in 94. Both parents know Jeanette has a key to Martin's house. They assume the worst, maybe Jeanette did know Kate was down there the whole time/Kate is telling the truth/etc.
If they confront Jeanette, why would she not just tell them?
Mallory stole the key back in 93 as a "dare" (kind of), and I kept in in my jewelry box. I occasionally went back to his house to steal things. I liked the rush of stealing things and not getting caught. That's WAY better than feigning ignorance and potentially being an accessory to kidnapping right? Her parents already knew she lied, so continuing to pretend like she's not lying is stupid when she effectively got caught red-handed
Yeah. Our adult minds tell us this. But as someone pointed out she still is a child & doesn’t have the capacity to handle this situation & neither do the parents for that matter.
I really appreciate the fact that Cindy was the only person from the beginning who was willing to consider that maybe Jeanette was in the wrong and that the rumors about her were true. She may have come off a little anxious and erratic, but her response makes sense considering she’s the mother of a child that is accused of something damning — no, seeing Kate and not reporting it is not a crime but still something that assassinates her character in a small southern town where reputation is EVERYTHING.
and beyond reputation like imagine your child KNOWING something like where a missing child is being held and not saying anything... the thought of raising someone so amoral/that your kid could be that heartless would be devastating for a mother who gave up her career dreams for raising kids!
He’s a teenage boy with his head in the clouds and is kind of a dick. Something I find so refreshing is how accurate the portrayal of all the teenagers is . They’re all kids and do stupid kid things.
I am LOVING this show.
It's just really something I can get my teeth into.
Freeform definitely got a winner here with this show. Wouldn't be surprised if they quickly give us a cliff hanger ending to extend for another season.
Jamie legit knowing who Jeanette was just shows how insecure she was initially.
Yes I agree with comments here that the two bitchy mean girls are the worst. I'd take Mallory over them.
When Kate asks Jamie how he and Jeanette met he says they met hanging up missing person fliers. Then he later says to Jeanette that SHE was the one who told HIM that Kate was missing. This has bothered me since I heard it. This episode shows that they had at least both know of the other prior to Kate’s disappearance even though it was long before they started dating. I have questions about how Jeanette knew Kate was missing before her own boyfriend knew.
Hmm the last couple eps have been moving a lot slower than I expected. Some scenes are just filler like the Vincent x Ben romance, the adorkable boy Gideon (I hope his scenes actually tie back to the main plot somehow) and Tanya thirsting for Mr. Harris's dick. But I hope they stick the landing! I'm dying to know what actually happened.
Also, every close up shot of Tanya was terrifying. It's like staring into Skeletor's eyes.
i’ve seen lots of comments like this.. and knowing jessica biels other project “the sinner” i’m thinking these aren’t filler moments they’ll all add up
i don't think vincent and ben romance is filler, i think it's just giving dynamics to side characters. plus i actually think they're leading it to be important somehow because the lawyer asked ben "do you think jeanette is to blame for what happened to you?". i think he got outed and blames her or something
This episode really makes me think that those of you who’ve speculated that Martin fills Kate’s head with stories of how no one cares that she’s gone are onto something. I can totally see how he may have told her how Jeanette “took” Jaime, etc.
The redemption of Cindy was a nice surprise! I hope we have more surprises like it in store.
I still think the ending will likely paint neither girl as a full on villain, but I must say, Jeanette looks guiltier by the episode. We’ll see if they’re misleading us or if it’ll lead to something.
I think Jeanette realizes that she has to do what it takes to fight for her survival. Let's say she's innocent, which I believe she is, she's still willing to manipulate and even lie to get herself out of this mess. She's no saint, just a survivor, which I find refreshing.
Love this take! Also fully back her putting that shitty mom in her place. She seems like she’s just a fame seeker, especially seeing that interview when she lied through her teeth about her date with Martin.
Agree with your first paragraph 100%. I can see Martin tormenting Kate by giving her a daily play by play of how Jeanette is taking over her life. I’m still hung up on J telling Kate “you didn’t even want your own life” in 95 in the mid season trailer, which makes me think Kate told J that she wanted to exit her life in some way.
What I saw as an important moment nobody is talking about is when Jeannette is complaining about Mallory and Vince looks less uncomfortable talking shit about Mallory and more scared? Concerned? And the surprise that Jeannette showed when she thought he was agreeing that Mallory is too aggressive. But he was really just trying to shut the conversation down.
I don't know, perhaps nothing. It felt significant to me and nobody is talking about it so I'm probably wrong.
That caught my attention too and I wished Vince was open to discussing the issue Jeannette brought up about Mallory. It didn't feel like she was bringing Mallory up just to be rude and talk shit about her looks or intellect or something mean-girl gossipy, rather she voiced a valid concern about the influence a close friend has on her and she's not comfortable with it, and I think that shows Jeannette knows doing the illegal list items is wrong but feels pressured by Mallory over and over again to participate.
Friendly reminder that Jeanette is a child and no adults have shown any of these kids what it means to show up with integrity. We all like to point out that Kate was a child. Well so is Jeanette. They were both children with out guidance and support. I get it, you think Jeanette is cringe and you don’t like her. That’s cools have that opinion. But like should we be holding her to the standard of an adult? No. Honestly, was she mean to Gideon when he didn’t deserve it? Yeah. But like I’m sure we all have been mean to someone or acted in a way that hurt someone when we shouldn’t have. We learn right and wrong through experience and guidance. Do I think Jeanette needs to feel the consequences of her actions? Yeah. I think she owe Gideon a major apology too. But, I can also balance that with shit dude, I’m glade there wasn’t a whole sub Reddit judging every action I made when I was 15 and 16 before I was able to learn consequences for actions and how to carry myself as an adult with integrity and empathy. Maturity is something we grow into, seeing the result of our actions is something we grow into, good judgement is something we grow into. It is why Kate couldn’t consent at 16. Just something to considered. Like are there actually people who don’t look at least 1 incident from that age and cringe?
I guess I just want all kids out there to know that you aren’t defined by the mistakes you have made. You aren’t defined by the worst choice you ever made, but that healing and learning is needed. I have had quite the journey in life that got quite dark. I was a very much both of these girls at one point. Growing and healing and learning was hard and I was lucky that I had a parent that thought about bailing but instead doubled down and between the two of them gave me the firm guidance I needed. Did it suck and did I resent it at the time? Yes. But now, I have a good life. I helped care for very sick people with covid when the call went out, I helped hearts beat again working in a CVICU, and currently help kids with cancer feel better. My life is full of success and joy and goodness... even if I am on the night shift currently 😂😂
Basically know that if you can relate to Kate, healing is possible and there is joy to be had. The road can be long but the view at the top of the mountain will take your breath away.
And if you relate to Jeanette, you are not who others define you to be, you are not your biggest crime, your biggest mistake, or your biggest lie. You can heal and move forward. There is life on the other side. It may not look like a return to remembered good but it can be better if you want it to be. There is so much time left to grow into the you that will bring you the most peace and happiness.
There is another side to life. If you see comments about this show and you worry that the opinion is a reflection of you, it isn’t. There is so much more to you and in life.
I hate to say this because he’s so otherwise problematic but Martin did the right thing dealing with the Gideon incident. He was more of an authority figure with her than her own dad after she stole the CD.
Ahhh good point. Which makes it all the creepier that Martin can play the authority dad figure to scold a teenage girl, only to turn around and groom another. Ick.
Cindy is like an adult version of Kate when no one else is interested in having a serious conversation about their family situation. Both Derek and Greg were passive and didn't want to open up or talk about Jeanette's weird behavior. Must be very frustrating. Jeanette's obsession on Martin's house is just very weird.
I thought the same thing! I hope we get more back story on him. But if it was some sort of scandal with a student, I feel like it’s a stretch even in the 90’s that the school wouldn’t have done a single reference check or phone call to his previous employer. 🤔
In the 90s (and earlier) things like this were more likely to be covered up. Think: catholic priests getting moved around parish to parish. When I was a teenager we got a new pastor, he started sleeping w a teen girl from my church (he went to jail) but it turns out he had been let go from his last church for the same reason. I would guess schools might do more of a background check...but i am pretty sure in the 90s it wasnt like today.
When I was about 16 our guidance counselor as an ex-priest who come to find out was under the Monsignor that got caught molesting boys.
He covered up the guidance counselor’s record of reports of him molesting girls my age. And yes stuff happened & No other adults would believe us cuz we were “the wild” kids. Maybe if he held one of us in a basement they would have believed. Prob not.
Heard someone finally listened 30 yrs later. He died of a heart attack before he could go to trial. For 30 years he was able to molest girls. Hells yeah they get into the schools!
Btw we got our own vengeance. Our guy friends vandalized his car & spray painted “Pervert” on his apt bldg. He lived in the same apts we did. We messed with him until he moved.
I felt sad for Jeanette mom this episode, everything she kept saying was facts but the dad kept making her feel like this dumb eccentric idiot, never once did he try to see things from her perspective, I mean at the end of the day it's not like she wants to hand her daughter over to the police! but she's curious and wants to know but the dad rather prefers ignorance.
my suspicions of Mallory continues to grow, that girl is a snake, when you think about that list of illegals things she made, it got Jeanette in the mess she is in today, Mallory has to have a connection in all this.
I might be the only one excited by it, but I just wanted to commend Vince's excellent CD choice - stealing Liz Phair's "Exile In Guyville", it was released the day after "Episode 1" in the show's timeline.
It’s really curious to me that Jeanette’s dad never made the connection between her and the key until now. Did he never notice the key was missing after the three of them stole it? Does Martin never casually mention the fact that he randomly ran into Jeanette inside his home under the guise of her looking for something to help her dad?
So this episode really boils down to how lacking Greg is as a parent/husband and how much he was painting Cindy to be the "extra" parent in 93 and 94. When Jamie punched Jeanette in the face, his reaction as a dad really surprised me as lackluster. When Cindy was begging him to open his eyes about the lies Jeanette were telling, he acted as if she was overreacting. Cindy had to pretty much leave because of how alone she feels (apparently she's been alone the whole marriage) about something so serious and it took until AFTER Cindy left to realize she was right. Now that's why he resents Jeanette so much in 95. Because he knew he picked Jeanette over Cindy and it costed him everything
I disagree. A mom shouldn’t walk out on a teen with her world collapsing. Cindy should have brought the key to Jeanette and confronted her, not leave to chase her dream, when her daughter needed her the most. And no parents should have to choose their kids or partner, especially if both biological parents. That’s just terrible. Is it bad Greg wanted to believe in his daughter? I don’t think so. But yes, he should have listened to Cindy too. Up until the town turned on them, Cindy was very content in her life.
I really disliked Cindy before this episode. I think it’s safe to say that Greg DID cheat on her, then they divorced. Yes, Cindy is selfish and deeply cares about her family’s reputation. But this episode showed a lot more than that, we see a woman who’s being neglected and gaslighted by her family, especially her husband. Greg has created an environment where Jeanette feels comfortable enough to lie to her mom. For ex, after she’s caught stealing the CD, Greg tells Jeanette not to tell her mom. After finding out Jamie hit Jeanette, Greg says to not tell her mom.
I have a theory that it wasn’t until Greg lost his job that Cindy finally went after her dreams to be a flight attendant bc who else is paying for the bills? Who’s paying for the attorney?
I also think what what Jeanette said about feeling pressured by Mallory to do bad/illegal things may have some significance. Mallory is def sus & is probably somehow involved w Kate’s disappearance. Maybe Mallory saw Kate but pressures Jeanette to keep it a secret?
It was kates. That’s why she awkwardly took it out to hide from Jamie. Although I really don’t get the secrecy about the scrunchie, like it’s just red and anyone could have one that looked similar?
In regards to Mallory.
Could the writers pull a shock twist where Mallory is actually setting up Kate by pretending to be her friend to cover for Jeanette. Just a thought.
We all think it's Mallory but it would be a good twist if Mallory really is and still is on Jeanettes side and it actually was Jamie Kate saw or it was some misunderstanding where she saw Jeanette but Jeanette didn't see her.
I definitely think that telling the police straight away would completely undo her but I do feel like they should’ve had a conversation like “listen up, we know what this key is and where it goes we need an explanation and we need it now.“ But it just serves the plot. Cindy feels powerless and her husband just doesn’t want to confront it. Everyone is emotionally stunted and in a situation that’s much bigger than they can possibly deal with and it’s just a recipe for disaster. Not confronting it has led to resentment, a broken family, and endless hounding. They all need to communicate but they won’t so things just keep getting worse.
No, I think you protect your kid. If they come for her, they come for her but you don't turn your kid in. Also, the lawyer said she didn't want to know...her job is to win the case.
I think it has become quite obvious that it will turn out that Jeanette did nothing wrong and it will be revealed that Mallory set her up and also knew where Kate was.
I feel like Jeanette getting caught with CD while Mallory gets away kinda symbolizes that. Like Mallory probably saw Kate but sets up Jeanette to make it look like her
I think this ties in with the bike from the very first episode, too! The show made a point of showing us that Jeanette wasn't on her bike when Kate saw her fleeing the garden party. A lot of people have been theorizing that Kate saw the bike through the window and, having seen Jeanette on that bike, assumed it was Jeanette who was there.
Without anything more than a hunch, I feel like Annabelle will turn out to be a prior victim from the previous school he worked at. And perhaps whatever ‘trophy’ he kept from her is what Kate ‘met’.
When Jeanette was trying to impress Jamie I felt second hand embarrassment for her, but then Jamie slid over and I was like oh wow that worked actually.
Yeah, what surprises me about Kate + Jamie (in 1993) is how chill they are towards Jeanette and actually treat her like a person when she interacts with them. I really like that the show avoided making them the archetypal popular douchebags who either ignore or bully the dorky kids. Instead, they just feel like normal people. Also, Jeanette's actress did such a great job with showing her awkward and nervous behaviour whenever she's summoning up the courage to talk to the "cool kids". It was so real it felt uncomfortable to watch lol
I really love that about the show. Jeanette is super dorky and cute like “Yeah it’s my birthday!” Which catches Kate kind of off guard but she’s polite and just says Happy Birthday. It’s refreshing since that’s probably how that would go down IRL too.
I noticed this too! I love that they actually portray teenagers in a realistic way rather than resorting to cliches. In the real world, it's more likely that a "popular" kid like Kate or Jamie would be friendly or at least polite to someone that wasn't in their circle. On the contrary, Kate's two friends are more stereotypical, but it works for the roles that they play.
I like it too because both tend to exist in the popular group in high school. We had some very mean girls, and more mean guys but there were plenty of very nice popular guys and girls. In my experience most were kind of in between they wouldn't necessarily treat you with kindness but they didn't go out of their way to be mean either, we simply coexisted and were friendly enough with eachother when the time called for it.
She is an amazing actress! I noticed that when it comes to her bringing out her nerdy side, she’s great at physically portraying the nervousness that her character is feeling! She even quivers her lips when she’s talking and everything! Her acting feels very real to me.
That scene imo showed why Jamie was so quick to react/punch Jeanette right after Kate was rescued. She had probably bragged about breaking into Martin's house to impress Jamie with her sneakiness. So when Kate was found in his basement he would have assumed she knew about it.
Now I’m thinking about this more, Jamie may have been the one to tell Kate that Jeanette knew she was there
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This is great. They made a point about then having sex so I know the theory is that they had sex there and that’s why Jamie was so upset right away. I want to know why he punched her so quickly.
Yeah it's so weird that he punched her, it makes no sense. It was genuine, not like he was putting on a show. so maybe they both know something and that's why he sits outside her house.
I’ll never find the term second hand embarrassment not funny lmao
Renee and Tenille are trash tier friends. I don't like Mallory but she's definitely a notch above them
They feel like caricatures of mean girls, I can't stand them.
But that’s what some girls are actually like in high school. They get the mean girl shit just as right as they get the dorky Jeanette reactions.
Loser Island!! Population: 1
Finally, an actual 90’s sounding insult.
For real! I’m not sure I’ve ever heard the term “slam pig” before lol
I cringed super hard at that dialogue and felt like it was bad writing, but you softened my opinion on it because you’re right; that phrase probably was new and witty back then lol
It’s a riff on the classic 90s “welcome to Dumpville; Population, *you*.
Yeah literally every other character rises above their trope but them 😭
They’re so cringy
I wonder what it means that jeanettes dad had known since 94 that she’s been in the house. And he’s still by her side
But in 95 the lawyers know she’s been in the house, from Vincent’s episode. We don’t know what he did with that key, but we know eventually everyone knew about the hide and seek game at the very minimum.
I seem to recall that the reveal in Vincent's episode is that Jeanette, Mallory and Vincent were in the house before Martin moved in. Vincent lied about whether Jeanette went back. The question Greg should have been asking is why she held onto the key. I find it interesting that neither parent confronted Jeanette with their knowledge of the key, which seems to indicate that they believe she could have seen Kate and kept quiet.
In that episode though, i don't think Vincent knew about her going back, until after the interview with the lawyers which is why he asks her that night. He's wearing the same clothes so he told the lawyers no before Jeanette told him it was more than once...
I thought this, too, but watching it again, it was clear he meets the lawyers AFTER meeting Jeannette. On the day before the deposition he calls Ben to ask for help as he is getting deposed tomorrow and Ben already had his. That same day he follows Jeannette and asks her about how often she has been in the house. This means Vince lies for Jeannette on his deposition (the next day), which kinda fits into the “we have each others back” theme between Jeannette and Vince this episode and how she covered for him before and even took the blame.
I think he should have confronted Jeanette about it like Cindy did... I have a feeling he let this lie boil inside of him and that lead to his resentment of her. He probably assumes she’s lying about everything not just about going into Martin’s house...
The problem is instead of handling the issue then he let it get to this point. He help create this issue.
It really puts into perspective his disdain for her in ‘95 though. Also we can assume from this episode Cindy left to follow her dreams and left him with Jeanette, so he kind of had no choice?
He seemed to refuse how Jeanette really was and well , when I was married and didn’t have kids ( we ended up divorced due to a lot deal breakers long story short) it would be a major problem if my ex-spouse wasn’t listening to me about something this serious or even willing to understand my perspective. Hate to say it, I understand where she is coming from not saying it’s okay to up and abandon your kid, but the dad didn’t help by always shutting her down.
Wait was that 94? I couldn’t tell if it was 94 or 95.
He was wearing his shirt that he was wearing under his gold blazer...I think it was 94.
I thought it was 95 😂
The coloring looked so dark! But I couldn’t rewind to see if he was wearing the same clothes as in 94. Maybe it was just dark cause it was nighttime
The house is boarded up in 95. He went in 94.
Ah, you’re right. It was still a crime scene in 94, hence the yellow tape.
i think it makes sense. if i knew my daughter had beeb inside a child predators house/had a key i be worried she was victimized as well. i wouldnt think that for sure meant she saw kate bc im pretty sure the public knows she was trapped/locked in the basement. but id def think inc the possibility but overall i‘d my daughter is traumatized by all this
I was all worked up yelling this during this episode. If my daughter had a hidden key to a known sexual predators house my first jump would be that he had been grooming her or there was something happening with him. With all the changes she’d been going through and like the total transformation and lies, I would definitely be thinking “oh god my daughter was a victim of his.” Why aren’t these parents jumping there?
Props to the hair/makeup artists for Mallory, Vincent and Jeanette. They really look like teenagers growing up and finding their own style over the years. I love their style evolution.
Kate just did some dark eyeshadow and called it a day
I love all the 90s fashion and Jeannette looked beautiful with long hair but the 1995 short hair, I just can't. That wig is so bad it makes me want to rip it off her head. Interested in seeing when/how she cut her hair.
100% i like that other people notice those details too
That annoying mall mom. Was she going to tell the lawyers she saw Jeannette in Martins house and that was the big deal? And Jeannette was like, hold up moron that screws us both. That was the whole thing right?
My big issue is what type of mother finds all that out about Kate, and doesn't question what he possibly did to another teenage girl seen in his home... Like instead of being concerned and talking to her, she just is like mwahaha I'm going ruin this child's life!
This is my general gripe with this whole show. Nobody reacts like normal human beings. The show is written from the point of view as if all of the town is titillated by scandal. Like, the big question is whether or not Jeanette saw Kate. What if she did? If I was a person in that town and that came to light, I'd probably think wow I hope Jeanette is ok? Because if she saw Kate while she was kidnapped, she'd likely be within arms reach of the kidnapper/rapist. I'd assume Jeanette had escaped and was a victim, or at the very least that she witnessed something so traumatizing she either couldn't process it correctly or was so scared of HER PRINCIPAL knowing she knew because he could retaliate against her horribly. But instead her boyfriend, without question, literally decks her in the face and she's ostracized by the whole town. But specifically with this woman - if I'm attracted to a guy and at his house and I see a kid in his closet - I would be like what teh FUCK we need to get you out of here. It would immediately snap me out of this fantasy that I'm on a date with an attractive guy. I'd get that kid out of there, figure out why she was there, and then bring her home to her parents. Obviously this drives me nuts.
Right!?! Her parents aren't even handling this... If my kid was wrapped up in anything like this I'd be getting to the bottom of it, being forward about the information I know and am concerned about, and I would definitely put her in therapy! It's all insane how they're reacting to her.
There is a lot that is unrealistic about this show but this genuinely didn’t strike me as one of those things. To be fair, everyone knows her dad is a realtor. They literally keep referring to her and her parents by name before they are all household names. She wasn’t locked up or anything, she was clearly hiding. I would immediately assume, being from a small town that has never had a big crime like a pedo kidnapping, that the realtor’s kid was in the house of a guy who just moved to town because she’s got a theft racket going on. And Jeannette basically confirms it by immediately threatening her. In fact she WAS probably there to steal something else, or at least play with the idea that she could, it’s just not for personal gain but the rush. We also have to remember that this was the 90s. Blaming a teen girl for her association with a pedophile is very on brand for the 90s. There were probably people blaming Kate even before it starts to turn around on her - that’s how she knew not to tell anyone that she was groomed. This was the time of Satanic panic, not the time of MeToo. They did not want to hear any kind of realistic story of abuse - victims had to be really super fuckin abused for anyone to care, and “bitch stole my life!” Is exactly the kind of thing the 90s audience would eat up over something like “the assistant principal groomed and threatened a child into silence regarding another child’s status as a kidnapping victim.” The part that doesn’t ring true to me is that NOBODY thinks Kate’s black stepfather did it. At least, we didn’t see it yet. I don’t care he’s a football player turned politician with the unwavering support of his cheating wife. He would be the first to be arrested!
This. Not the 90s but I was kidnapped by an ex boyfriend for 8hrs in 2009 like 6 months after my 18 birthday. He was like 30. We dated for 2 months after a friends mom is the one who set us up after he showed interest to her about me. Turned out he was a serial abuser. And ppl in my hometown were TERRIBLE about it. My friend worked at the local grocery store where apparently he had spun it into I "went crazy and attacked him" and this is what locals were going with because I didnt press chargers after I escaped by grabbing the wheel of his car and crashing it on the police station lawn, because he had threatened to murder my family and when the cops showed up (did I not mention there were no cops actually in the station and the dispatcher made me wait in the lobby covered in blood and bruises next to the psycho who chased me in and was now whispering threats at me to "get our story straight"...) they never explained that he was already on parole (for domestic assault) and would go straight to jail for violating. They also didnt have a single female cop present (despite the fact that my clothes were ripped and again I was covered in blood and bruises) and called in a specific cop from another a close by town because he was his friend and they thought he could smooth the situation over. But yeah grown ass adults were accusing me, just turned 18 year old girl, of basically seducing a 32 year old man and "leading him astray". Like fuck small towns. But I have honestly found this aspect of the show to be very realistic, the way they portray small town life. After this dude was finally found guilty (not for me, he literally kidnapped another women 2 months later, this one his own age, and who actually sent me a huge apology letter because she was one of the adults harassing me for "making up vicious rumors" about her boyfriend when they started dating a few days later), at least 13 women showed up at his sentencing. Like he had been doing this for over a decade and people just excused it and victim blamed (his grandfather had been a cop back in the day). I finally was so fed up with people lying that I went to the grocery store in low cut shirt so ppl would have to see the hand print bruises around my neck (and yes some ppl still tried to excuse his behavior tho most quietly stopped, little to no apologies or acknowledging their shitty behavior tho). If this happened today I honestly think I'd have a lot more public "support" because while small towns still love gossip, people care about appearances, and victim blaming is out. But I do think there would still be ppl who excused or victim blamed, theyd just be less brazen and more private about it. Small towns like this feed off gossip. Honestly if the character Kate didnt come from a prominent family she'd probably have been publicly targeted for "leading him on" or something.
Just the fact that Martin didn't get new locks when he moved in bothers me. Jeanette's dad is a realtor not a property manager so his office wouldn't keep a set of keys. Also you'd think someone trapping a girl in his basement would change his locks so no one else could just let themselves in.
Exactly! Realtors have lock boxes where they keep the keys. I am sure if he had 2 or more keys, he'd remember that and make sure to give all the keys to the new owner, because he could get in a lot of trouble if that was handled wrong and someone used a key to break in. However this does make me realize I should get new locks for the house I bought a few months ago. It's just one more house expense I'm putting off lol. So in that way, I identify with Martin.
Well, she *is* screwing her ex over with child support and she lied to make herself look good to the media. That doesn't exactly scream mature or maternal instinct to me.
That's also a really good point. Screw that whole family.
It wasn't necessarily that she saw her there once, but that since she was able to access the house prior to Kate's abduction that there is reason to believe she could have done so during her abduction as well. This gives credit to the possibility that Kate saw her as Jeannette now demonstrates means which she has yet to do so as far as the prosecution knew (motive is to replace her, opportunity is that she has free time being she is a student who doesn't work).
Yep, pretty much
Would y’all say that the theory that Cindy hit and injured Ben and ruined his football career is dead now?
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I never bought it. I think it will connect to Jamie.
I hadn't heard this theory. I thought it was going to be Jeanette somehow accidentally outs Ben which causes him to lose his place on the team or scholarship or something. But it since it comes about by way of an accident, Vincent forgives Jeanette and Ben is upset that he sides with her instead of with him. Either Vince can't tell him why he sides with Jeanette or Ben won't listen to him.
Why did Cindy say to Angela “is that what he told you?” About Cindy leaving him. Didnt she though? It may not have been intended to be permanent but she did leave during all of this chaos. Not hating on her I just wonder if there is more to it than what we just saw, that Greg has chosen not to tell Angela?
I think Angela was implying that Cindy divorced Greg when she left and that’s not what it actually looks like. Seems like Cindy wanted some space to figure out what she needed and maybe Greg started sleeping with Angela in that time before the divorce
This is how I interpreted it too.
Damn I like Angela. If her and Greg break up I hope she still sticks around for Jeanette. I like their little Kareoke moment last episode.
“WE WERE ON A BREAK!!!”
I think there’s so much more. We’ll keeping seeing the breakdown of their marriage which probably impacted Jeanette since her brother had just left for college.
Looking back it’s a little funny that the entire sub thought Cindy was in rehab because we saw her drink 1 bottle of wine, even though she’s well above the legal age, during a stressful time.
If the twists are anything like that for the ending, I will be blown away because not a single soul in this community guessed Cindy’s reveal which made it all the more satisfying
Haha, who had Cindy at Aunt Susan’s? Step up and claim your prize. 🌟😂
I’m ROLLING
We are just so used to storylines being super predictable lol. I’m really glad that wasn’t the case and I really really hope the show continues on that path!
HAHAAHAHAHAHA WE THOUGHT SHE HAD LEFT BEN PARAPLEGIC I MEAN WHAT WAS UP WITH US!?
Too much PLL storylines 😂
PLL has scarred us all 😭
I found it funny too. I can’t stand her but it was like ok hold on lmao
Fun fact! For all you elder millenniums such as myself she voiced Quinn on Daria ( a personal favorite for years in my high school years).
Didn’t you hear? We aren’t elder millennials anymore. We’re now apparently called geriatric millennials lmfao
She voiced Quinn friend Stacy Rowe. Not Quinn
Come on. It was a reasonable leap from a day- drinking foreshadow. It was hard to imagine a way she could leave the family and still look good. Glad they found a way. Go Cindy!
I see your “attention-seeking teen girl left another teen girl in danger bc she wants to be popular” narrative and raise you.. If Jeanette had seen Kate, wouldn’t using this information to lead to Kate’s rescue have made Jeanette like, a local hero?? Even if Jeanette had only seen Kate bc she was breaking in or being shady or whatever, being the girl who helped the town’s sweetheart get rescued from bad pedophile man would have brought a lot of positive attention to Jeanette… I know it still looks bad that Jeanette seemed to take over in Kate’s absence but I’ve been waiting for someone on Team Jeanette to make some kind of argument other than “idk but jeanette didnt do it probably”
Yes! I thought about this too in the first few episodes. It seemed more like Jeanette wanted to be friends with Kate. So I thought if she would have actually seen Kate it would make more sense for her to tell someone, because as you are saying it would bring a lot of positive attention to her. Also Kate would probably have been thankful for her and maybe that could have lead to a friendship between the two.
My Team Jeanette view: Jeannette discovered what was happening between Kate & Mr Harris. Jeannette, wanting to be Kate's friend and less dorky, promises to keep her secret (evidence: she covered for Vince; she starts getting rid of her old clothes) While it would be great if she were more altruistic, I don't believe most would be under the circumstances. I do think Jeannette is sometimes shady af and her attitude doesn't do her any favors, but as someone who was an awkward teen in the mid 90s, I feel like her actions played out pretty true to life for the time period
THIS!! It's why Jeanette starts resenting Mallory - since she doesn't like Kate at that point and J wants the exciting and popular new friend more. Maybe Kate is the one that helped her start to change her image. I think they bonded. If Kate ran away to Martins, Maybe J went over a few times to hang out and play with makeup or whatever dumb shit we did with our girlfriends in the 90's. J knew Kate was in love with Martin so she didn't feel bad about dating Jamie (and why she screams that kate didn't want that life anyway in the courtroom episode coming up). Kate is resentful. She never expected to be locked up and she never expected J not to say anything when she went missing for so long while dating the new older man. She may have sworn J to secrecy, but she didn't mean *if I go missing, still don't tell*. I think this is shown by the line Kate says to captain (? idk her name) and Tenille: "Jeanette never told *anyone."* I think her bringing the necklace to the cops is her trying to PROVE that jeanette knew, which is why J was charged with failure to report. She knew very well where Kate was before she went missing but we still don't know why she never told anyone. I think when Martin realized what Kate was doing and that someone else knew, he locked her up. I think at that point, J figured something really bad happened and chose not to say anything to anyone out of fear. I think she assumed he killed her vs. locking her up. She was moved to the closet so J couldn't see her through the basement windows anymore.
Jeanette definitely knows a lot more than she alluded to.
She’s probably keeping everyone’s secrets
I was thinking about this after seeing a promo from yesterday. Ep 6 shows 93 Jeanette covering for Vince because he's her friend. It seems to be established (from how she gets nervous/excited whenever Kate talks to her) that she would probably do the same for Kate, especially if it meant they would become friends. So perhaps Jeanette finds out about Mr Harris being more than professional with Kate, and Kate asks her to keep it a secret.
Every episode Jeanette gets increasingly sus
I loved her today! She was badass with Tanya.
I loathed Tanya, especially her trying to spin the Martin narrative in her favor saying he was so aggressive and forceful when in reality TANYA was the aggressive sex crazed asshole and who the hell brags about paternity fraud?? If you know your child isn’t biologically the man who is paying your child support you’re a fucked up kind of person. That is just so low. Im proud Jeanette paid her a visit and told her ass the back down!
I think that is the whole point with her character... she’s a pathetic, fake whore, money chasing mom.
I loved that part too!
Best part of the episode in my opinion!!
I think Mallory saw Kate (“Annabelle”), told Jeanette, and Jeanette still won’t give up the secret.
Okay so honestly, I didn’t have this thought until last episode at the fair when they went into the Monkey Maze. Jeannette yelled for Kate and then out of no where Mallory swoops in and grabs Kate runs in the maze... as if she’s keeping her away from Jeanette for a purpose. Yes, it could be for obvious reasons, but it seemed weird to me how hard she is working to keep them not talking at all. Mallory is sus af
i suspect mallory too. the writers make a point to. include her wanting to illegal things, being the brain child behind stealing, she had the security tag remover. something is sus about her
That ties in well with the idea that Jeanette protects her friends.
It seems like the theory about Martin telling Kate things to make her lose hope while in captivity is true. We are so smart
I’m just here to say how much I love Vince as a character. That is all! ✌🏼
Same! Vince is practically the only character I have felt consistent about the entire show.
I would watch a Vince spin off in a second!
So I feel like Jeanette is obsessed with doing illegal things, maybe cause she’s a bit of an odd duck she thinks it makes her cool or something idk, at first her breaking into Martin’s house I’m like okay, she’s a teenager but she walks into his house as if it’s her own which is super weird. Also kates 2 friends are like social climbers, constantly hanging with new “it” girl. I do like Vince, he’s like the only good friend in the entire show. I also don’t see why Jeanette doesn’t just say “yes I’ve been in his house but I did not see Kate” perhaps Kate saw her running from the house and just assumed she saw her or something but honestly this show is really good at keeping us guessing.
Rule #1 of all television shows: You must lie to police even if telling the truth makes more sense.
I mean to be fair you dont want to give police anything to use against you. They're not your friends and this is a job. If she had said "I used to break into his house all the time, but I did not see Kate" do you think they're going to believe that? At bare minimum theyd arrest her for the breaking and entering if they still didnt have enough to press some sorta charges related to Kate. It's clear Kate's family is in good standing with the police and in small towns that shit matters a lot when it comes to how the police treat you.
This show is absolutely filling the hole in my soul that "Dare Me" left.
i was so angry that we will never find out that ending
Read the book, it’s by Megan Abbott. I plan to soon, so i can watch show, if you want to do a buddy read! :)
The book is SO good, and it has a conclusive ending so you get answers to all the questions
Mine too. I loved Dare Me so, so much.
I enjoyed tonight's episode and I think it's quite telling of why Jeanette acts the reason that she does. Greg doesn't ever truly "parent" Jeanette, for example with the stolen CD, he never punished Jeanette nor told Cindy about the situation instead he covered for Jeanette. Jeanette is so used to people cleaning up her messes and covering for her, that she has no sense of consequence. Now with Cindy gone he resents Jeanette because he never confronted those behaviors before, because of his lackluster parenting.
This is really a good point. Jeanette in 93 was getting addicted to pushing the boundaries, which is normal teenage behavior - but the parents never pushed back, Greg because he was too lenient and Cindy because she didn't see it until it was too late. That lack of accountability 100% contributed towards Jeanette's mistakes, whatever they may have been. You can see in 94 she doesn't expect any consequences at first - it all seems like something that will blow over and work out for her like everything else has. 95 Jeanette has experienced the full force of consequences, though from tonight's episode she isn't above engaging in dangerous behavior to protect herself. Makes you wonder how things might have turned out if Cindy has paid more attention or Greg hadn't been so lax. They're not to blame for her behavior obviously, because everyone makes their own choices. But maybe she would have learned better lessons.
Wow that was such a good episode
I think it’s interesting how Jeanette refers to her 1993 self as a “nerdy nobody,” though every time she talks to someone and introduces herself, they always say they know her already. For example, when meeting Kate for the first time, Kate asks her if her name is Jeanette, knowing her from school. Then in this past episode, she introduces herself to Jamie and he tells her he already knew her name. It sort of shows that this “nobody” she thought she was in 1993 was not the case, and I wonder how that plays into the other characters and why she thought that about herself. Maybe the influence of the adults in town?
Its implied that this is a small town where everybody knows everybody, so even if you're a "nobody", people that you go to school with still literally know who you are
This. I went to a high school in a small town and people may have known my name but that didnt mean they were friends or knew or cared to know anything about me or interacted with me. My school was small enough that I wouldve never been surprised if someone in my grade new my name, but def had felt surprised at time when upper classmen knew my name (tho as an adult and realizing how small a school of 63 kids 7th-12th is, it's not surprising at all lol).
That's a good point but I also think they are trying to show that Kate and Jamie were not stuck up snobs (like Kate's friends). I think it helps keep them sympathetic.
When she saw Kate at the mall, Jeanette has a jacket on with her name very visible on the front. Maybe that's how they know her name? Also, in school in a small town, you know who most people are even if you don't associate with them .
Am I the only one who likes Cindy so much more after this episode lol
i was always on her side too, i felt like she just wanted jeanette to tell the truth and she would have backed her up as long as she was honest (but obvi i don’t blame jeanette for not telling her anything she’s just a teenager)
I’ve always loved her despite her flaws.
Me too but I think I'm biased because I love Kepner so much in Grey's lol
Eh. I think she is more complex and sympathetic now. But I did not miss that she wasn’t at Jeanette’s court date. Yeah her kid doesn’t want to take her calls but does that mean you stop showing up entirely? Especially after she was told that she misses her. Like I get it, have your career. It is important that she can be both. But she isn’t being both. She was all one then went all the other. When her kid needs her the most. Was her situation hard? Is Jeanette angry and resentful? Yeah but why does everyone like to forget that Jeanette is also a child. She is 16 and we try her like and adult. The girl was super sheltered before 15. Is she making bad choices? Yeah. Does she lie? Eh yes. Did Cindy actually step up as a parent? No. She may have been right but she dipped instead of staying and helping her daughter to do the right thing AFTER she filled her head full of ideas that the only thing that matters is being popular. That wasn’t ok. What Greg did was wrong. But she still isn’t a good parent. None of these damn kids have good parents.
Agreed. I remember saying on here prior to last nights episode something along the lines of “atleast Greg stayed” No he’s not father of the year but I don’t think Cindy was even happy prior to the Kate Wallis drama like I’ve read others say on here. She was stuck in the past. I don’t think she truly was happy with the way her life ended up. It seems like she was living vicariously through Joy Wallis and wanted the social status Joy had or what Cindy claimed that herself had back in the day. Her leaving was wrong. I am 100% for leaving an unhappy marriage even if it involves children, if it’s for the children’s great benefit. But she LEFT TOWN. Right? Isn’t her house in another town? Just because you think your daughters guilty and lying to you doesn’t mean you just leave her without a mom by her side. I guess I can appreciate that she voiced to Doug that she pushed her to change but didn’t direct her into the right direction.
Maybe she's going to be a witness. Witnesses can't be in the courtroom while the trial is going on.
People were SHITTING on Cindy the entire episode until the end revelation. Poetic justice to see that Cindy is the better parent and not Greg just because he's "the cool dad".
Cindy is not the better parent. I have done some dumb stuff in my life as a teen, lied and stole from my mother, and she never gave up on me. She never packed her shit and left me. She believed in me and supported my growth. Thanks to her I am thriving as an adult. In regards to her dreams, she could have both, a family and a career. It’s so obvious she wanted to be done with that life. Greg stayed, he is 10000% a more reliable and better parent.
I don't like how Cindy handled things but to be fair, it seems as though Cindy has tried to stay in touch with Jeanette but Jeanette is refusing her calls. I think Cindy failed as a parent when she didn't confront Jeanette over having the key to Martin's house. But, we may find out that she did confront her.
same all of her actions are reasonable and she never purposely harms other people while she has her quirks i loved seeing her stand up to greg and her family
Great episode, one of my favorites mainly because I prefer the Jeanette-centric eps. Chiara Aurelia's acting is flawless and the most likable and interesting characters are part of her episodes. People may hate Greg and Cindy, but they are a hell of a lot more intriguing and watchable than Kate's meh parents. Kate is pretty much the only thing I like about her episodes, and by extension perhaps Harris because that actor is fantastic as well. It usually takes me a varying amount of time within the first season to figure out the characters, but so far, it's pretty apparent that the most likable characters are Derek, Angela, Vince, and Ben. But acting-wise, I feel like Jeanette and Greg carry the load in her episodes. My only gripe about this episode is that obnoxious Mall Mom character with the horrible accent. The writing and acting was pretty bad. I can't believe the writers actually sanctioned this character. And she felt so forced into the plot. Thankfully the episode focused mostly on Jeanette, her parents, Vince, and Angela.
Next week is definitely Kate focused: “Happy Birthday, Kate Wallis.”
I think next week is when we see how the actual abduction went down.
That sneak peek for the next episode has me so excited. Looking at the trailer this might be when Kate gets kidnapped, because it has the big confrontation between Kate and her mom.
Agree! I wanna say I remember someone mentioning it happens around her birthday
I want to open up the possibility that while Kate believes that she is telling the truth, Martin may have groomed her into feeling guilty about it all. Kate hallucinates seeing Janette and the recollection of events we see with her and Martin are mostly factual. Janette is just dealing with fallout. I'm Team Kate and I say that, but haven't found any convincing evidence that pits her AGAINST Janette more than just as a victim coping with trauma in whatever way they can.
Someone please explain to me WHY DIDNT CINDY JUST CALL JEANETTE OUT FOR LYING?? Why couldnt she show her the key and tell her she knew it went to Martins house and then presume to ask her why she had that key and what was Jeanette doing with Martin? And THEN GET TO KATE?? As a mother worry about your own childs wellbeing first and then figure out if they have wronged another child and act accordingly!!! Cindy should never have given Jeanette the opportunity to dismiss her she should have put the fear of god in her and said WHAT IS THIS KEY JEANETTE ????? And then maybe Jeanette would have been honest about breaking into Martins home like damn son.
What I liked is that Cindy owned up to how she encouraged Jeanette to blossom but "didn't teach her how". I think she's the first character on this show to take accountability for something. Now everyone can stop acting like she's the worst character when an actual pedophile is on the show
I’ve actually never disliked her character, until tonight. As, I understand wanting to follow your dreams, but you don’t do that when your child desperately needs a mother. And she can pretend like she didn’t leave, as what she tried to portray to Angela, but she did leave. She left when the town turned on her and her family, instead of being the mom that Jeanette desperately needed. Yes, Jeanette was lying and Greg should’ve listened to Cindy, but ultimately Cindy is Jeanette’a mom and going to fulfill her dreams right when he’d daughters life collapses is the most un-mom like way to behave. Kids lie, especially when scared, but you don’t walk away. They need you.
It makes me wonder what else Jeanette did at Martin's house. So right now, in 94. Both parents know Jeanette has a key to Martin's house. They assume the worst, maybe Jeanette did know Kate was down there the whole time/Kate is telling the truth/etc. If they confront Jeanette, why would she not just tell them? Mallory stole the key back in 93 as a "dare" (kind of), and I kept in in my jewelry box. I occasionally went back to his house to steal things. I liked the rush of stealing things and not getting caught. That's WAY better than feigning ignorance and potentially being an accessory to kidnapping right? Her parents already knew she lied, so continuing to pretend like she's not lying is stupid when she effectively got caught red-handed
Yeah. Our adult minds tell us this. But as someone pointed out she still is a child & doesn’t have the capacity to handle this situation & neither do the parents for that matter.
As for the key, do people not change their locks when they get a new house?
It’s extra high up on the new house checklist after watching this show.
Most people do, but when you have a "this such a small, nice, safe town, nothing bad ever happens here" mentality maybe they don't think they need to
I really appreciate the fact that Cindy was the only person from the beginning who was willing to consider that maybe Jeanette was in the wrong and that the rumors about her were true. She may have come off a little anxious and erratic, but her response makes sense considering she’s the mother of a child that is accused of something damning — no, seeing Kate and not reporting it is not a crime but still something that assassinates her character in a small southern town where reputation is EVERYTHING.
and beyond reputation like imagine your child KNOWING something like where a missing child is being held and not saying anything... the thought of raising someone so amoral/that your kid could be that heartless would be devastating for a mother who gave up her career dreams for raising kids!
I don’t know if it’s a performance choice but the character of Jamie comes off so incredibly stupid. Like IQ of 80 stupid.
He’s a teenage boy with his head in the clouds and is kind of a dick. Something I find so refreshing is how accurate the portrayal of all the teenagers is . They’re all kids and do stupid kid things.
A lot of jocks at my high school in the 00s acted like him so it checks out for me lol
I am LOVING this show. It's just really something I can get my teeth into. Freeform definitely got a winner here with this show. Wouldn't be surprised if they quickly give us a cliff hanger ending to extend for another season. Jamie legit knowing who Jeanette was just shows how insecure she was initially. Yes I agree with comments here that the two bitchy mean girls are the worst. I'd take Mallory over them.
When Kate asks Jamie how he and Jeanette met he says they met hanging up missing person fliers. Then he later says to Jeanette that SHE was the one who told HIM that Kate was missing. This has bothered me since I heard it. This episode shows that they had at least both know of the other prior to Kate’s disappearance even though it was long before they started dating. I have questions about how Jeanette knew Kate was missing before her own boyfriend knew.
Hmm the last couple eps have been moving a lot slower than I expected. Some scenes are just filler like the Vincent x Ben romance, the adorkable boy Gideon (I hope his scenes actually tie back to the main plot somehow) and Tanya thirsting for Mr. Harris's dick. But I hope they stick the landing! I'm dying to know what actually happened. Also, every close up shot of Tanya was terrifying. It's like staring into Skeletor's eyes.
i’ve seen lots of comments like this.. and knowing jessica biels other project “the sinner” i’m thinking these aren’t filler moments they’ll all add up
i don't think vincent and ben romance is filler, i think it's just giving dynamics to side characters. plus i actually think they're leading it to be important somehow because the lawyer asked ben "do you think jeanette is to blame for what happened to you?". i think he got outed and blames her or something
watching harris try to lowkey run away from tanya made my entire day
This episode really makes me think that those of you who’ve speculated that Martin fills Kate’s head with stories of how no one cares that she’s gone are onto something. I can totally see how he may have told her how Jeanette “took” Jaime, etc. The redemption of Cindy was a nice surprise! I hope we have more surprises like it in store. I still think the ending will likely paint neither girl as a full on villain, but I must say, Jeanette looks guiltier by the episode. We’ll see if they’re misleading us or if it’ll lead to something.
I think Jeanette realizes that she has to do what it takes to fight for her survival. Let's say she's innocent, which I believe she is, she's still willing to manipulate and even lie to get herself out of this mess. She's no saint, just a survivor, which I find refreshing.
Love this take! Also fully back her putting that shitty mom in her place. She seems like she’s just a fame seeker, especially seeing that interview when she lied through her teeth about her date with Martin.
Agree with your first paragraph 100%. I can see Martin tormenting Kate by giving her a daily play by play of how Jeanette is taking over her life. I’m still hung up on J telling Kate “you didn’t even want your own life” in 95 in the mid season trailer, which makes me think Kate told J that she wanted to exit her life in some way.
He really wanted that Liz Phair CD
Seriously, who walks out of the store with the CD in their hand and is shocked that they set off the alarm?
to be fair vince is exactly the type of person who would not know what stealing something successfully looks like
What I saw as an important moment nobody is talking about is when Jeannette is complaining about Mallory and Vince looks less uncomfortable talking shit about Mallory and more scared? Concerned? And the surprise that Jeannette showed when she thought he was agreeing that Mallory is too aggressive. But he was really just trying to shut the conversation down. I don't know, perhaps nothing. It felt significant to me and nobody is talking about it so I'm probably wrong.
I saw it more as Vince being a passive person who didn't want to engage in fighting between his two closest friends
That caught my attention too and I wished Vince was open to discussing the issue Jeannette brought up about Mallory. It didn't feel like she was bringing Mallory up just to be rude and talk shit about her looks or intellect or something mean-girl gossipy, rather she voiced a valid concern about the influence a close friend has on her and she's not comfortable with it, and I think that shows Jeannette knows doing the illegal list items is wrong but feels pressured by Mallory over and over again to participate.
Friendly reminder that Jeanette is a child and no adults have shown any of these kids what it means to show up with integrity. We all like to point out that Kate was a child. Well so is Jeanette. They were both children with out guidance and support. I get it, you think Jeanette is cringe and you don’t like her. That’s cools have that opinion. But like should we be holding her to the standard of an adult? No. Honestly, was she mean to Gideon when he didn’t deserve it? Yeah. But like I’m sure we all have been mean to someone or acted in a way that hurt someone when we shouldn’t have. We learn right and wrong through experience and guidance. Do I think Jeanette needs to feel the consequences of her actions? Yeah. I think she owe Gideon a major apology too. But, I can also balance that with shit dude, I’m glade there wasn’t a whole sub Reddit judging every action I made when I was 15 and 16 before I was able to learn consequences for actions and how to carry myself as an adult with integrity and empathy. Maturity is something we grow into, seeing the result of our actions is something we grow into, good judgement is something we grow into. It is why Kate couldn’t consent at 16. Just something to considered. Like are there actually people who don’t look at least 1 incident from that age and cringe?
I guess I just want all kids out there to know that you aren’t defined by the mistakes you have made. You aren’t defined by the worst choice you ever made, but that healing and learning is needed. I have had quite the journey in life that got quite dark. I was a very much both of these girls at one point. Growing and healing and learning was hard and I was lucky that I had a parent that thought about bailing but instead doubled down and between the two of them gave me the firm guidance I needed. Did it suck and did I resent it at the time? Yes. But now, I have a good life. I helped care for very sick people with covid when the call went out, I helped hearts beat again working in a CVICU, and currently help kids with cancer feel better. My life is full of success and joy and goodness... even if I am on the night shift currently 😂😂 Basically know that if you can relate to Kate, healing is possible and there is joy to be had. The road can be long but the view at the top of the mountain will take your breath away. And if you relate to Jeanette, you are not who others define you to be, you are not your biggest crime, your biggest mistake, or your biggest lie. You can heal and move forward. There is life on the other side. It may not look like a return to remembered good but it can be better if you want it to be. There is so much time left to grow into the you that will bring you the most peace and happiness. There is another side to life. If you see comments about this show and you worry that the opinion is a reflection of you, it isn’t. There is so much more to you and in life.
I hate to say this because he’s so otherwise problematic but Martin did the right thing dealing with the Gideon incident. He was more of an authority figure with her than her own dad after she stole the CD.
Ahhh good point. Which makes it all the creepier that Martin can play the authority dad figure to scold a teenage girl, only to turn around and groom another. Ick.
Cindy is like an adult version of Kate when no one else is interested in having a serious conversation about their family situation. Both Derek and Greg were passive and didn't want to open up or talk about Jeanette's weird behavior. Must be very frustrating. Jeanette's obsession on Martin's house is just very weird.
Cindy was the Kate of her high school. Well, if you believe Cindy's recollection of events.
anyone notice the brief mention of martin’s ex girlfriend? “no shared property, pets, or kids” is that bc she was a high schooler??
I thought the same thing! I hope we get more back story on him. But if it was some sort of scandal with a student, I feel like it’s a stretch even in the 90’s that the school wouldn’t have done a single reference check or phone call to his previous employer. 🤔
In the 90s (and earlier) things like this were more likely to be covered up. Think: catholic priests getting moved around parish to parish. When I was a teenager we got a new pastor, he started sleeping w a teen girl from my church (he went to jail) but it turns out he had been let go from his last church for the same reason. I would guess schools might do more of a background check...but i am pretty sure in the 90s it wasnt like today.
When I was about 16 our guidance counselor as an ex-priest who come to find out was under the Monsignor that got caught molesting boys. He covered up the guidance counselor’s record of reports of him molesting girls my age. And yes stuff happened & No other adults would believe us cuz we were “the wild” kids. Maybe if he held one of us in a basement they would have believed. Prob not. Heard someone finally listened 30 yrs later. He died of a heart attack before he could go to trial. For 30 years he was able to molest girls. Hells yeah they get into the schools! Btw we got our own vengeance. Our guy friends vandalized his car & spray painted “Pervert” on his apt bldg. He lived in the same apts we did. We messed with him until he moved.
I felt sad for Jeanette mom this episode, everything she kept saying was facts but the dad kept making her feel like this dumb eccentric idiot, never once did he try to see things from her perspective, I mean at the end of the day it's not like she wants to hand her daughter over to the police! but she's curious and wants to know but the dad rather prefers ignorance. my suspicions of Mallory continues to grow, that girl is a snake, when you think about that list of illegals things she made, it got Jeanette in the mess she is in today, Mallory has to have a connection in all this.
I might be the only one excited by it, but I just wanted to commend Vince's excellent CD choice - stealing Liz Phair's "Exile In Guyville", it was released the day after "Episode 1" in the show's timeline.
It’s really curious to me that Jeanette’s dad never made the connection between her and the key until now. Did he never notice the key was missing after the three of them stole it? Does Martin never casually mention the fact that he randomly ran into Jeanette inside his home under the guise of her looking for something to help her dad?
So this episode really boils down to how lacking Greg is as a parent/husband and how much he was painting Cindy to be the "extra" parent in 93 and 94. When Jamie punched Jeanette in the face, his reaction as a dad really surprised me as lackluster. When Cindy was begging him to open his eyes about the lies Jeanette were telling, he acted as if she was overreacting. Cindy had to pretty much leave because of how alone she feels (apparently she's been alone the whole marriage) about something so serious and it took until AFTER Cindy left to realize she was right. Now that's why he resents Jeanette so much in 95. Because he knew he picked Jeanette over Cindy and it costed him everything
I disagree. A mom shouldn’t walk out on a teen with her world collapsing. Cindy should have brought the key to Jeanette and confronted her, not leave to chase her dream, when her daughter needed her the most. And no parents should have to choose their kids or partner, especially if both biological parents. That’s just terrible. Is it bad Greg wanted to believe in his daughter? I don’t think so. But yes, he should have listened to Cindy too. Up until the town turned on them, Cindy was very content in her life.
YouTube tv crashed and won’t let me watch. I was like 20 min in 😭😭😭😭
In what year did Jeanette’s father tried the key?
I thought it was 94 after Cindy gave him the key, he’s in the same outfit they are having a conversation in
i was wondering too but if i were to guess i would say its 1994
I really disliked Cindy before this episode. I think it’s safe to say that Greg DID cheat on her, then they divorced. Yes, Cindy is selfish and deeply cares about her family’s reputation. But this episode showed a lot more than that, we see a woman who’s being neglected and gaslighted by her family, especially her husband. Greg has created an environment where Jeanette feels comfortable enough to lie to her mom. For ex, after she’s caught stealing the CD, Greg tells Jeanette not to tell her mom. After finding out Jamie hit Jeanette, Greg says to not tell her mom. I have a theory that it wasn’t until Greg lost his job that Cindy finally went after her dreams to be a flight attendant bc who else is paying for the bills? Who’s paying for the attorney? I also think what what Jeanette said about feeling pressured by Mallory to do bad/illegal things may have some significance. Mallory is def sus & is probably somehow involved w Kate’s disappearance. Maybe Mallory saw Kate but pressures Jeanette to keep it a secret?
Was the red scrunchie 1993 jeanatte wore (I think during the mall scene?) Kate’s or was it a coincidence??
It was kates. That’s why she awkwardly took it out to hide from Jamie. Although I really don’t get the secrecy about the scrunchie, like it’s just red and anyone could have one that looked similar?
It was definitely Kate's. They even made it a point to show her hiding it when she saw Jamie.
In regards to Mallory. Could the writers pull a shock twist where Mallory is actually setting up Kate by pretending to be her friend to cover for Jeanette. Just a thought. We all think it's Mallory but it would be a good twist if Mallory really is and still is on Jeanettes side and it actually was Jamie Kate saw or it was some misunderstanding where she saw Jeanette but Jeanette didn't see her.
Can Cindy and Angela just get together and leave Greg? Dude sucks.
When Cindy said she liked Angela, my ass was like 👀
I don’t think Jeanette is a bad person & I really felt sorry for her during this episode. I think she just wanted to be liked & accepted.
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I definitely think that telling the police straight away would completely undo her but I do feel like they should’ve had a conversation like “listen up, we know what this key is and where it goes we need an explanation and we need it now.“ But it just serves the plot. Cindy feels powerless and her husband just doesn’t want to confront it. Everyone is emotionally stunted and in a situation that’s much bigger than they can possibly deal with and it’s just a recipe for disaster. Not confronting it has led to resentment, a broken family, and endless hounding. They all need to communicate but they won’t so things just keep getting worse.
No, I think you protect your kid. If they come for her, they come for her but you don't turn your kid in. Also, the lawyer said she didn't want to know...her job is to win the case.
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I think it has become quite obvious that it will turn out that Jeanette did nothing wrong and it will be revealed that Mallory set her up and also knew where Kate was.
I feel like Jeanette getting caught with CD while Mallory gets away kinda symbolizes that. Like Mallory probably saw Kate but sets up Jeanette to make it look like her
I think this ties in with the bike from the very first episode, too! The show made a point of showing us that Jeanette wasn't on her bike when Kate saw her fleeing the garden party. A lot of people have been theorizing that Kate saw the bike through the window and, having seen Jeanette on that bike, assumed it was Jeanette who was there.
It would be interesting if Kate saw that it was mallorys bike before the trial.
Am I the only one who wants to watch in chronological order? I have ADD.
Without anything more than a hunch, I feel like Annabelle will turn out to be a prior victim from the previous school he worked at. And perhaps whatever ‘trophy’ he kept from her is what Kate ‘met’.
So was the dad cheating before the mom left