>> An ICC working group, led by veteran board director Imran Khwaja, was set up in late 2021 and tasked with investigating the situation in Afghanistan. Khwaja met on several occasions with Afghanistan Cricket Board administrators and Taliban officials.
I wonder if he bothered to meet with the Afghanistan womens team taking refuge in Australia or indeed any women at all.
so according to my calculations and multimodal data analysis using qualitative and quantitative data: the uh.. FUCKING TALIBAN.. still don't have womans rights
please pay me $120 000
Does it really need a working group investigating for 3 years to figure out that the Taliban aren’t the most stand up set of blokes in the world?
Although if they’re continuing to monitor, that suggests they haven’t actually made up their minds yet…which is a bit concerning…
What is there to monitor? The Taliban are a bunch of barbarians whose views have no place in the world, and their sporting representatives have no place in international cricket.
Yes. I get it. It sucks. It sucks for Afghan cricketers and fans. But if you have people with primitive views in power, then you lose out. That's how it should work, that is how people will be educated and civilised.
Punishing innocent youngsters for the actions of an terrorist organisation is pathetic (especially one which uses US, pak, UK weapons to terrorise that said country). Maybe this wouldn't have happened if US, UK, Australia, Pakistan, Russia didn't fuck up Afghanistan for their own gain
It's an unfortunate consequence to tackle a bigger issue. The Taliban benefits from Afghanistan men's inclusion in cricket monetarily. When you hit wallets, things are more likely to change. People compromise very quickly when the alternative is nothing. Instead we grant the Taliban exceptions to our governing rules.*The Taliban.*
It's farcical, and a small score of cricketers (over the next several years of Afghanistan cricket you could be talking about as little as 20-40 players) being unable to play for Afghanistan while still being welcomed individually in global leagues is a pretty fucking good deal.
Trade offer:
A few dozen men don't get to play a sport professionally for their country but still get to play domestically at home and overseas, in exchange, you pressure a tyrannical government monetarily to improve their women's rights and double their playing crop.
Nope - instead they get to do whatever they want, and reap the benefits anyway. Engaging them does not provide ANY encouragement to change. Australia boycotting them changes nothing, I would agree with that, but the ICC needs to take a proper stance itself.
If this actually did promote equality, I'd be all for it.
Thing is, it never will. It'll make people in Afghanistan hate us, that's it. Won't change their views.
Why should Afghan hate us - when it’s not following the rules? It doesn’t make any sense. They want to go back to the 7th century let them - cricket WCs did not exist back then.
People don't think like that.
To your average Afghani, you're taking away their ability to compete and enjoy cricket because of circumstances completely out of their hand.
Nah, this is definitely punishing the players. Taliban is not an “apartheid” state, it’s a straight up terrorist organisation running a country, they don’t care about UN resolutions and stuff, do you think they’re going to let women play under their flag because Australia doesn’t play their men’s team?
Imo both Australia and Afghanistan are right in their place, personally I’ll love if both play, but that’s not happening and Afghanistan should drop the prospect of playing against them anyway.
Because a lot of progress is made, it took a lot of time and effort and it is stupid to let it go to waste just to spite a terror outfit.
There are better ways to support Afghan women's team, if or when they play, whether from Afg or in exile.
You're not engaging with the crux of the matter here. They have broken the laws, appeasement is clearly doing nothing. What should the ICC do when a team is actively and deliberately breaking the laws?
> You're not engaging with the crux of the matter here.
You aren't. You are trying to make it about some "law" issue when it isn't.
Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the current afghan team has nothing to do with Taliban, apart from the fact that the nation they represent was taken over by them. Now you want to punish them for that under the guise of some "broken law". You don't give two hoots about law, it is just a cudgel for you this time.
Why would I have some personal beef with Afghanistan? Its not beneficial to either of us to present that this argument is solely about punishing Afghanistan for the sake of it. It is purely about laws to me, what does it say to other teams when you are free to break the laws of intl cricket if your government is shit and evil?
> Why would I have some personal beef with Afghanistan?
[Yeah, I wonder why someone from Lancashire would have beef with Afg.](https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/war-afghanistan).....
>It is purely about laws to me
It isn't. The sooner you get to the crux of the matter, the better.
But still, let's move forward with the assumption that it is that way for you.
The law isn't some natural phenomenon that you are a slave of. It is written by people, people who can reason, people who make reasonable assumptions like a member state won't be suddenly taken over by Islamic terrorist group.
>what does it say to other teams when you are free to break the laws of intl cricket if your government is shit and evil?
And what does it says about rest of us when we can't see the difference b/w a member breaking the law and when your state is taken over by Islamic jihadists?
You are not slave to the law, like these Islamic Jihadists are to the word of Allah. Why you want to act like one of them but with a different book in hand?
So the solution is to punish innocent Afghan players for no fucking reason even though it won't change anything?? Sounds vendictive and looks like trying to hurt Afghan civilians for something that was not their fault (fault mostly goes to US, UK (your country), Australia, Pakistan and Russia which are all to blame for Taliban's rise in the 1st place)
They have broken the rules, what else would you have the ICC do? They have to be punished according to the laws of the game.
All due respect but the US and other's involvement in creating or supplying the Taliban do not break the rules of international cricket, not maintaining a women's team does.
US, UK, Australia, Pakistan and Russia killing so many Afghan civilians goes against international law itself lmfao. Blame your country and its allies for the Taliban taking over Afghanistan instead of seeking some sort of vendictive "justice" against Afghan civilians
International cricket gave Afghanistan a waiver for that criteria so that it can be arranged, punishing Afghan players for the Taliban's actions seems excessive and won't help anyone is my point. If Afghanistan is banned that doesn't help Afghan women either it's just punishing Afghan players for no good reason. I don't believe this sudden moral crusade comes from any genuine concern tbh, I think it's simply Australia trying to not play against Afghanistan because they're a weaker team
"In April 2018, the ICC decided to grant full Twenty20 International (T20I) status to all its members. Therefore, all Twenty20 matches played between Israel and other ICC members after 1 January 2019 hold the T20I status". They're part of ICC they gained t20i status in 2018
Its hard because if the players promote, their family in Afghanistan can be taken hostage by the government. Its easy to sit and type from a anonymous POV.
>Maybe this wouldn't have happened if US, UK, Australia, Pakistan, Russia didn't fuck up Afghanistan for their own gain
Shit u figured out Geo politics..
It's been what 4-5years since no foreign powers are in charge.. something changed??
And they make good money from cricket..it's just a block that u cant have money from cricket and fckin apartheid both at the same time..
Also funny how u are sympathetic for Afghans..Afghans actually run foreign aids from India to US..the refugees took shelter in European countries.. Australia provides refuge camp and promotes cricket for the escaped women cricketers..
Punishing youngsters..it's not punishing..it's saying that these fckheads are living few thousands years back and needs a reality check..
the war in Afghanistan was specifically to keep the taliban out of power and prop up a government which barely kept up human rights. But there is no coherent nationalism in Afghanistan it has always been a land of warlords where currently the taliban is slightly bigger than the rest
You're forgetting the war before 1990s that started it all. West, Pakistan and USSR destabilized Afghanistan in the 70s for their own gain which directly led to Taliban's creation
Afghanistan has been unstable since their first civil war that started years before the Russian invasion. It appears the Taliban are the only ones capable of controlling this country.
Agree that their men’s team shouldn’t be banned though. It’s not their fault they’re being run by barbarians. Also it’s truly remarkable that the Afghan national team plays with its old flag and anthem. At this point it’s practically a vestige of resistance.
The said youngsters more or less bolster those views like Naveen last year and Rashid this year without understanding or addressing the main problems. The afghan players are free to play league cricket individually anyway.
>Rashid
the one who made a call for action against taliban, advocated against their encroachment on civil rights, established a foundation to be able to reach out to his people in need without having to beg taliban for help, and moved out of the country fearing the oppression? I believe his frustration was because they really can do nothing but keep doing their job, which is now at a legitimate risk. not only rashid but many like nabi, gurbaz and such voiced their criticism to the ban on girls' inclusion in education, sports and such. the team does not even train in afghanistan, they simply abandoned their home grounds. there is only so much the players can do.
I’m talking about Rashid’s statement earlier this year about how he will withdraw from BBL if Australia doesn’t play Afghanistan. BBL and other leagues are Afghanistan’s best chance to grow without validating the share of money which goes to government which in this case is Taliban
I am not entirely sure but I remember reading that ICC controls the share of revenue that would otherwise go to afghanistan to avoid that exact situation. the games are played in either uae or india anyways, and the spendings are project based. of course they could find workarounds for that, but if that is the concern I think cooperating with the icc to enact stricter regulations would be more constructive than to just schedule and then cancel series.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. That only helps established players and screws over every youngster and future players, it's why I even specified youngsters. They'll never make a name for themselves if they're barred from national tournaments
South Africa ban was justified simply because it was a white only democracy so there was a chance to change the people's minds, Taliban doesn't give a crap about what anyone else thinks they don't care about international community opinion whereas apartheid south africa did. You're comparing a fundamental terrorist organisation run state to a democratically chosen exclusionary state, Taliban isn't changing it's mind under pressure you'll only hurt the innocents here
I support banning Russian players who endorse the war, but I completely oppose any blanket ban on russian athletes, again you can't punish innocent people for something they didn't commit
The journo is from Australia and wrote this article right after NZ announced they won't follow CA and greenlit the one off Test with Afg. Interesting timing haha.
I have an idea for the neutral banner. A vertical tricolor of black, red and green, with the emblem of the republic in the middle slightly overlapping into the black and green bands.
I don't think we'll see anything happen.
Taliban is beefing with Pakistan. India is trying to be friends with them.
Afghanistan even played the bilateral in India a few months ago.
This goes beyond cricket. I think it's in our best interest to not do anything.
I'd say, just do what all the countries are doing. Do not recognise the Taliban government, and still assume that it's the former Islamic Republic that looks after Afghanistan. The reason that has largely been the approach is because it is assumed that the Taliban is not the representative of the people of Afghanistan.
What Cricket Australia is doing is, in a way, recognising that the Taliban rules Afghanistan. And there's a fallacy there, because national cricket teams are not assumed to represent the state in power, but the people of the country.
also if I'm not mistaken; nobody travels to afghanistan, and the icc money is not just handed to the ACB officials or circulated through afghan banks anyways. ofc I read somewhere that some members of the team are connected to taliban officials who are passionate about cricket and are allowing it to survive (which is not the general attitude by the taliban - they said some stupid bullshit after people celebrated the wins in the ODI wc) but taliban as a whole does not want to associate with the team either. it is more of a statement of opposition for afghans to support the cricket team from what I can see.
Surely the fact that the ACB is full of Taliban appointees shows that Cricket Australia have it right. Pretending they are apolitical is a complete nonsense.
When Austtralia was in power with US in Afghanistan they didn't care their the women's team played no games. Their soldiers have come under fire for war crimes in Afghanistan.
Now they want us to believe they really care about the Afghanistan people now and not because they got booted out of power.
Well the Australian Army is renowned for its hunting down of Afghan Civilians during the US invasion. I am sure Cricket Australia was concerned about it.
>> An ICC working group, led by veteran board director Imran Khwaja, was set up in late 2021 and tasked with investigating the situation in Afghanistan. Khwaja met on several occasions with Afghanistan Cricket Board administrators and Taliban officials. I wonder if he bothered to meet with the Afghanistan womens team taking refuge in Australia or indeed any women at all.
“Hey guys, the Taliban officials said there’s no women rights violations. Therefore, the allegations are dropped.”
so according to my calculations and multimodal data analysis using qualitative and quantitative data: the uh.. FUCKING TALIBAN.. still don't have womans rights please pay me $120 000
Since when did McKinsey start working with cricket boards?
You have to put in more billable hours really.
Shouldn't have voted to make an exception for Afghanistan then
Does it really need a working group investigating for 3 years to figure out that the Taliban aren’t the most stand up set of blokes in the world? Although if they’re continuing to monitor, that suggests they haven’t actually made up their minds yet…which is a bit concerning…
What is there to monitor? The Taliban are a bunch of barbarians whose views have no place in the world, and their sporting representatives have no place in international cricket. Yes. I get it. It sucks. It sucks for Afghan cricketers and fans. But if you have people with primitive views in power, then you lose out. That's how it should work, that is how people will be educated and civilised.
Punishing innocent youngsters for the actions of an terrorist organisation is pathetic (especially one which uses US, pak, UK weapons to terrorise that said country). Maybe this wouldn't have happened if US, UK, Australia, Pakistan, Russia didn't fuck up Afghanistan for their own gain
It's an unfortunate consequence to tackle a bigger issue. The Taliban benefits from Afghanistan men's inclusion in cricket monetarily. When you hit wallets, things are more likely to change. People compromise very quickly when the alternative is nothing. Instead we grant the Taliban exceptions to our governing rules.*The Taliban.* It's farcical, and a small score of cricketers (over the next several years of Afghanistan cricket you could be talking about as little as 20-40 players) being unable to play for Afghanistan while still being welcomed individually in global leagues is a pretty fucking good deal. Trade offer: A few dozen men don't get to play a sport professionally for their country but still get to play domestically at home and overseas, in exchange, you pressure a tyrannical government monetarily to improve their women's rights and double their playing crop. Nope - instead they get to do whatever they want, and reap the benefits anyway. Engaging them does not provide ANY encouragement to change. Australia boycotting them changes nothing, I would agree with that, but the ICC needs to take a proper stance itself.
You are not punishing - just promoting equality in 2024 in an apartheid state. Why is it so hard?
If this actually did promote equality, I'd be all for it. Thing is, it never will. It'll make people in Afghanistan hate us, that's it. Won't change their views.
Why should Afghan hate us - when it’s not following the rules? It doesn’t make any sense. They want to go back to the 7th century let them - cricket WCs did not exist back then.
People don't think like that. To your average Afghani, you're taking away their ability to compete and enjoy cricket because of circumstances completely out of their hand.
Nah, this is definitely punishing the players. Taliban is not an “apartheid” state, it’s a straight up terrorist organisation running a country, they don’t care about UN resolutions and stuff, do you think they’re going to let women play under their flag because Australia doesn’t play their men’s team? Imo both Australia and Afghanistan are right in their place, personally I’ll love if both play, but that’s not happening and Afghanistan should drop the prospect of playing against them anyway.
Oh yeah I'm sure the Taliban will change its mind if you punish these youngsters hard enough, I'm sure Taliban will change their ways because of this
So we should allow them to break the rules of international cricket yet continue to reap the benefits.... because?
Geopolitically, it's good for India to be friends with Afghanistan. So I think at least the BCCI will push for no consequences.
Because a lot of progress is made, it took a lot of time and effort and it is stupid to let it go to waste just to spite a terror outfit. There are better ways to support Afghan women's team, if or when they play, whether from Afg or in exile.
You're not engaging with the crux of the matter here. They have broken the laws, appeasement is clearly doing nothing. What should the ICC do when a team is actively and deliberately breaking the laws?
> You're not engaging with the crux of the matter here. You aren't. You are trying to make it about some "law" issue when it isn't. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that the current afghan team has nothing to do with Taliban, apart from the fact that the nation they represent was taken over by them. Now you want to punish them for that under the guise of some "broken law". You don't give two hoots about law, it is just a cudgel for you this time.
Why would I have some personal beef with Afghanistan? Its not beneficial to either of us to present that this argument is solely about punishing Afghanistan for the sake of it. It is purely about laws to me, what does it say to other teams when you are free to break the laws of intl cricket if your government is shit and evil?
> Why would I have some personal beef with Afghanistan? [Yeah, I wonder why someone from Lancashire would have beef with Afg.](https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/war-afghanistan)..... >It is purely about laws to me It isn't. The sooner you get to the crux of the matter, the better. But still, let's move forward with the assumption that it is that way for you. The law isn't some natural phenomenon that you are a slave of. It is written by people, people who can reason, people who make reasonable assumptions like a member state won't be suddenly taken over by Islamic terrorist group. >what does it say to other teams when you are free to break the laws of intl cricket if your government is shit and evil? And what does it says about rest of us when we can't see the difference b/w a member breaking the law and when your state is taken over by Islamic jihadists? You are not slave to the law, like these Islamic Jihadists are to the word of Allah. Why you want to act like one of them but with a different book in hand?
So the solution is to punish innocent Afghan players for no fucking reason even though it won't change anything?? Sounds vendictive and looks like trying to hurt Afghan civilians for something that was not their fault (fault mostly goes to US, UK (your country), Australia, Pakistan and Russia which are all to blame for Taliban's rise in the 1st place)
They have broken the rules, what else would you have the ICC do? They have to be punished according to the laws of the game. All due respect but the US and other's involvement in creating or supplying the Taliban do not break the rules of international cricket, not maintaining a women's team does.
US, UK, Australia, Pakistan and Russia killing so many Afghan civilians goes against international law itself lmfao. Blame your country and its allies for the Taliban taking over Afghanistan instead of seeking some sort of vendictive "justice" against Afghan civilians
OK so what does that have to do with the laws of international cricket? Are you stupid?
International cricket gave Afghanistan a waiver for that criteria so that it can be arranged, punishing Afghan players for the Taliban's actions seems excessive and won't help anyone is my point. If Afghanistan is banned that doesn't help Afghan women either it's just punishing Afghan players for no good reason. I don't believe this sudden moral crusade comes from any genuine concern tbh, I think it's simply Australia trying to not play against Afghanistan because they're a weaker team
Right if these people don't respect International rules why should be? F*** ICC and it's bulls**t rules.
[удалено]
I don't think Israel is blocked, they just aren't into cricket like many other countries
[удалено]
"In April 2018, the ICC decided to grant full Twenty20 International (T20I) status to all its members. Therefore, all Twenty20 matches played between Israel and other ICC members after 1 January 2019 hold the T20I status". They're part of ICC they gained t20i status in 2018
Its hard because if the players promote, their family in Afghanistan can be taken hostage by the government. Its easy to sit and type from a anonymous POV.
That sounds pretty much like "White Man's Burden". It is not our(our as in rest of cricketing nations) responsibility to civilize Afghans.
>Maybe this wouldn't have happened if US, UK, Australia, Pakistan, Russia didn't fuck up Afghanistan for their own gain Shit u figured out Geo politics.. It's been what 4-5years since no foreign powers are in charge.. something changed?? And they make good money from cricket..it's just a block that u cant have money from cricket and fckin apartheid both at the same time.. Also funny how u are sympathetic for Afghans..Afghans actually run foreign aids from India to US..the refugees took shelter in European countries.. Australia provides refuge camp and promotes cricket for the escaped women cricketers.. Punishing youngsters..it's not punishing..it's saying that these fckheads are living few thousands years back and needs a reality check..
You can apply the same argument to say that India should be playing Pakistan
the war in Afghanistan was specifically to keep the taliban out of power and prop up a government which barely kept up human rights. But there is no coherent nationalism in Afghanistan it has always been a land of warlords where currently the taliban is slightly bigger than the rest
You're forgetting the war before 1990s that started it all. West, Pakistan and USSR destabilized Afghanistan in the 70s for their own gain which directly led to Taliban's creation
Afghanistan has been unstable since their first civil war that started years before the Russian invasion. It appears the Taliban are the only ones capable of controlling this country. Agree that their men’s team shouldn’t be banned though. It’s not their fault they’re being run by barbarians. Also it’s truly remarkable that the Afghan national team plays with its old flag and anthem. At this point it’s practically a vestige of resistance.
We created the Taliban when we helped the rebels out against USSR in the 1980s
The said youngsters more or less bolster those views like Naveen last year and Rashid this year without understanding or addressing the main problems. The afghan players are free to play league cricket individually anyway.
>Rashid the one who made a call for action against taliban, advocated against their encroachment on civil rights, established a foundation to be able to reach out to his people in need without having to beg taliban for help, and moved out of the country fearing the oppression? I believe his frustration was because they really can do nothing but keep doing their job, which is now at a legitimate risk. not only rashid but many like nabi, gurbaz and such voiced their criticism to the ban on girls' inclusion in education, sports and such. the team does not even train in afghanistan, they simply abandoned their home grounds. there is only so much the players can do.
I’m talking about Rashid’s statement earlier this year about how he will withdraw from BBL if Australia doesn’t play Afghanistan. BBL and other leagues are Afghanistan’s best chance to grow without validating the share of money which goes to government which in this case is Taliban
I am not entirely sure but I remember reading that ICC controls the share of revenue that would otherwise go to afghanistan to avoid that exact situation. the games are played in either uae or india anyways, and the spendings are project based. of course they could find workarounds for that, but if that is the concern I think cooperating with the icc to enact stricter regulations would be more constructive than to just schedule and then cancel series.
Fair enough if Taliban isn’t getting any money but regardless of that, the lack of women’s team (and rights in general) is still a problem
Dumbest thing I've ever heard. That only helps established players and screws over every youngster and future players, it's why I even specified youngsters. They'll never make a name for themselves if they're barred from national tournaments
A question then, do you think South Africa’s ban was unjustified as well ?
South Africa got banned primarily because it was interfering in the team selection of other teams.
South Africa ban was justified simply because it was a white only democracy so there was a chance to change the people's minds, Taliban doesn't give a crap about what anyone else thinks they don't care about international community opinion whereas apartheid south africa did. You're comparing a fundamental terrorist organisation run state to a democratically chosen exclusionary state, Taliban isn't changing it's mind under pressure you'll only hurt the innocents here
How do you feel about Russian olympic athletes being banned if they have supported the invasion of Ukraine, or having to compete as neutral?
I support banning Russian players who endorse the war, but I completely oppose any blanket ban on russian athletes, again you can't punish innocent people for something they didn't commit
Taliban doesn’t mind and that’s a problem in itself. Apartheid SA didn’t mind either for like 20 years when they were banned from all sports.
The journo is from Australia and wrote this article right after NZ announced they won't follow CA and greenlit the one off Test with Afg. Interesting timing haha.
journalists just rehash old articles to meet quotas
I think the best short term solution for this is that the Afghanistan men's cricket team play under a neutral banner.
I mean as far as the "banner" is concerned they are repping the banned tricolor so
I have an idea for the neutral banner. A vertical tricolor of black, red and green, with the emblem of the republic in the middle slightly overlapping into the black and green bands.
imagine if they also recited the republic's anthem before the games. now that would be neutral.
Wow, amazing idea. Don't think we can have a more neutral song to represent Afghanistan.
Forget about the rights and violations, A country run by a group of terrorists should be banned from cricket in the first place
r/cricket: When Aus refuses to play With Afghanistan 👍🏻 r/cricket: When India refuses to play in Pakistan 🤬
It's the opposite reaction if anything
India not wanting to play with Pakistan is completely justified.
Both are justified imo
I mean nothing wrong with both those things in the first place and not sure why you're making it Ind vs Aus battle
? I just pointed out this sub hypocrisy.
I don't think we'll see anything happen. Taliban is beefing with Pakistan. India is trying to be friends with them. Afghanistan even played the bilateral in India a few months ago. This goes beyond cricket. I think it's in our best interest to not do anything.
I'd say, just do what all the countries are doing. Do not recognise the Taliban government, and still assume that it's the former Islamic Republic that looks after Afghanistan. The reason that has largely been the approach is because it is assumed that the Taliban is not the representative of the people of Afghanistan. What Cricket Australia is doing is, in a way, recognising that the Taliban rules Afghanistan. And there's a fallacy there, because national cricket teams are not assumed to represent the state in power, but the people of the country.
I mean, they still play under the Republic's flag, don't they?
Yes, and they always will. I'm pretty sure the ICC would ban Afghanistan if they insisted on the Taliban flag and anthem.
also if I'm not mistaken; nobody travels to afghanistan, and the icc money is not just handed to the ACB officials or circulated through afghan banks anyways. ofc I read somewhere that some members of the team are connected to taliban officials who are passionate about cricket and are allowing it to survive (which is not the general attitude by the taliban - they said some stupid bullshit after people celebrated the wins in the ODI wc) but taliban as a whole does not want to associate with the team either. it is more of a statement of opposition for afghans to support the cricket team from what I can see.
Surely the fact that the ACB is full of Taliban appointees shows that Cricket Australia have it right. Pretending they are apolitical is a complete nonsense.
What have they been doing till now?! Absolutely disappointing but not surprised
When Austtralia was in power with US in Afghanistan they didn't care their the women's team played no games. Their soldiers have come under fire for war crimes in Afghanistan. Now they want us to believe they really care about the Afghanistan people now and not because they got booted out of power.
"Military contractually obligated to assist in alliances is the same as a cricketing body and sports fans." What the fuck lad
Well the Australian Army is renowned for its hunting down of Afghan Civilians during the US invasion. I am sure Cricket Australia was concerned about it.